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Boeing757100
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What happened to British Airways world cargo?

Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:33 pm

A couple of years ago, Atlas Air operated a couple of 747-8Fs and 747-400Fs for a cargo brand for British Airways called British Airways World Cargo. A few years pass, and British Airways (Passenger) retires the last 747-400s from the fleet. Now I am not completely devastated because I wonder "At least they still have the cargo 747-8s, right?" But I later found that they had ceased operations. Why? I mean, Lufthansa Cargo is successful, and Air France Cargo (Air France Cargo only has 2 777Fs) isn't doing bad either, right? Why would British Airways not want to compete in this market? Was it unprofitable?
 
MIflyer12
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Re: What happened to British Airways world cargo?

Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:31 pm

Being profitable isn't sufficient. A venture has to compete in profit and growth potential against every other prospective use of funds, including direct returns to shareholders. That means new routes, more frequencies, purchase of more efficient aircraft, more advertising... You need to chose your benchmarks carefully - those who make decisions on a financial basis free from government influence. If carriers are compelled to maintain staff or continue money-losing but 'government prestige' activities you need to discount their relevance to IAG.
 
Antarius
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Re: What happened to British Airways world cargo?

Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:44 pm

BA World Cargo was consumed by IAG Cargo.

IAG has a lot of aircraft going to a lot of places (BA, IB, EI etc), so they utilize the belly space of pax aircraft vs operating a dedicated fleet.
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FGITD
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Re: What happened to British Airways world cargo?

Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:47 pm

Cargo is far more than just the aircraft with “cargo” written on the side. BA cargo still exists under IAG cargo, it just doesn't have any of its own aircraft, like most airline cargo departments.

Despite having the dedicated freighter fleet, I’d wager more LH cargo moves on pax flights than those freighters. AF definitely does Better on pax with only the 2 777F. The days of big cargo fleets for pax airlines are pretty much done.

A 77w for example can carry a full passenger count upstairs and depending on baggage load, still carry 10+ pallets. Despite the common saying on here, time is extremely crucial in cargo. So if you can sell say, CDG-ATL directly 2 or 3 times a day, you're in better shape than having to use the dedicated freighter via MIA or IAD or wherever it is that it goes and then trucking it.

Freighters are good because of how much they carry And the different limitations, but they are terrible for point to point cargo. And being able to get freight closer to the final destination faster makes you money.
Last edited by FGITD on Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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AA777223
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Re: What happened to British Airways world cargo?

Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:52 pm

Antarius wrote:
BA World Cargo was consumed by IAG Cargo.

IAG has a lot of aircraft going to a lot of places (BA, IB, EI etc), so they utilize the belly space of pax aircraft vs operating a dedicated fleet.

So, what happened to the 747 freighter fleet?
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FGITD
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Re: What happened to British Airways world cargo?

Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:58 pm

AA777223 wrote:
Antarius wrote:
BA World Cargo was consumed by IAG Cargo.

IAG has a lot of aircraft going to a lot of places (BA, IB, EI etc), so they utilize the belly space of pax aircraft vs operating a dedicated fleet.

So, what happened to the 747 freighter fleet?


They were wet leased, so went back to the lessor. And I think the lessor went under as a result of no longer having the BA contract
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: What happened to British Airways world cargo?

Fri Aug 07, 2020 6:10 pm

What year was that pls?
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TC957
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Re: What happened to British Airways world cargo?

Fri Aug 07, 2020 6:22 pm

BAWC ceased operations at the end of April 2014, and basically took Global Supply Systems down with them, from whom the 3 747-8F's were leased. CargoLogicAir was formed afterwards to fill the capacity gap in the UK market.
 
skipness1E
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Re: What happened to British Airways world cargo?

Fri Aug 07, 2020 6:25 pm

They were mainly used to Hong Kong and places East, the capacity gap was replaced by Qatar Cargo increasing their STN flights as per agreement with IAG.
 
SueD
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Re: What happened to British Airways world cargo?

Fri Aug 07, 2020 6:56 pm

IAG Cargo utilise a Qatar 777F under BA code from Stansted to Hong Kong via Doha on daily basis replacing the previous agreement with Atlas who supplied three dedicated 747Fs via a joint business called Global Supply Services
Three 744F models operated between 2002 and 2012 operated in a modified Atlas livery and had simple BA stickers under the cockpit

G-GSSA


G-GSSB


G-GSSC


From 2011 to 2014 these were replaced with B747-8F in full BA World Cargo livery

G-GSSD


G-GSSE


G-GSSF


Back in the dark ages between 1980 and 1982 they bought a 747-236F directly from Boeing this subsequently spent most of its life with Cathay Pacific

G-KILO
 
Bhoy
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Re: What happened to British Airways world cargo?

Fri Aug 07, 2020 7:05 pm

SueD wrote:
IAG Cargo utilise a Qatar 777F under BA code from Stansted to Hong Kong via Doha on daily basis replacing the previous agreement with Atlas who supplied three dedicated 747Fs via a joint business called Global Supply Services
Three 744F models operated between 2002 and 2012 operated in a modified Atlas livery and had simple BA stickers under the cockpit

G-GSSA


G-GSSB


G-GSSC


From 2011 to 2014 these were replaced with B747-8F in full BA World Cargo livery

G-GSSD


G-GSSE


G-GSSF


Back in the dark ages between 1980 and 1982 they bought a 747-236F directly from Boeing this subsequently spent most of its life with Cathay Pacific

G-KILO

When was it they had a 744F in Chelsea Rose Utopia scheme? Think that was directly leased from Atlas?
Edit - N495MC delivered new in 1999, and operated for BA in Utopia scheme (With US registration) until 2002, When it was reregistered G-GSSA and got the above Global Supply Systems c/s.

Last edited by Bhoy on Fri Aug 07, 2020 7:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
SueD
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Re: What happened to British Airways world cargo?

Fri Aug 07, 2020 7:13 pm

BA also took delivery of three B747-236B (scd) models G-BDXM, G-BDXN AND G-BDXP operated between 1987 and 1991 however It was exceptional rare to use the cargo door with BA

Three further combis were also used at various times two leased from MEA and further acquired during the take over of British Caledonians however I don’t believe BA used the combi facilities on these aircraft.
 
SueD
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Re: What happened to British Airways world cargo?

Fri Aug 07, 2020 7:14 pm

Bhoy wrote:
SueD wrote:
IAG Cargo utilise a Qatar 777F under BA code from Stansted to Hong Kong via Doha on daily basis replacing the previous agreement with Atlas who supplied three dedicated 747Fs via a joint business called Global Supply Services
Three 744F models operated between 2002 and 2012 operated in a modified Atlas livery and had simple BA stickers under the cockpit

G-GSSA


G-GSSB


G-GSSC


From 2011 to 2014 these were replaced with B747-8F in full BA World Cargo livery

G-GSSD


G-GSSE


G-GSSF


Back in the dark ages between 1980 and 1982 they bought a 747-236F directly from Boeing this subsequently spent most of its life with Cathay Pacific

G-KILO

When was it they had a 744F in Chelsea Rose Utopia scheme? Think that was directly leased from Atlas?
Edit - N495MC



One missed forgot about the Rose tail one , good spot .
 
CALMSP
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Re: What happened to British Airways world cargo?

Fri Aug 07, 2020 7:24 pm

FGITD wrote:
Cargo is far more than just the aircraft with “cargo” written on the side. BA cargo still exists under IAG cargo, it just doesn't have any of its own aircraft, like most airline cargo departments.

Despite having the dedicated freighter fleet, I’d wager more LH cargo moves on pax flights than those freighters. AF definitely does Better on pax with only the 2 777F. The days of big cargo fleets for pax airlines are pretty much done.


that may be true, but I'd bet that LH cargo has calculations of keeping as much freight as possible on the freighters instead of buying space on the pax flights (if time permits per customer requirements)
 
fcogafa
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Re: What happened to British Airways world cargo?

Fri Aug 07, 2020 7:35 pm

A lot of the Heathrow DHL flights are operating for BA cargo too
 
FGITD
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Re: What happened to British Airways world cargo?

Fri Aug 07, 2020 7:47 pm

CALMSP wrote:
FGITD wrote:
Cargo is far more than just the aircraft with “cargo” written on the side. BA cargo still exists under IAG cargo, it just doesn't have any of its own aircraft, like most airline cargo departments.

Despite having the dedicated freighter fleet, I’d wager more LH cargo moves on pax flights than those freighters. AF definitely does Better on pax with only the 2 777F. The days of big cargo fleets for pax airlines are pretty much done.


that may be true, but I'd bet that LH cargo has calculations of keeping as much freight as possible on the freighters instead of buying space on the pax flights (if time permits per customer requirements)


I mean on LH pax flights, so they're not buying any space but rather selling their own empty space. It's one of the gambles of pax flights carrying cargo, it tends to be space available
 
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JannEejit
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Re: What happened to British Airways world cargo?

Fri Aug 07, 2020 9:52 pm

TC957 wrote:
BAWC ceased operations at the end of April 2014, and basically took Global Supply Systems down with them, from whom the 3 747-8F's were leased. CargoLogicAir was formed afterwards to fill the capacity gap in the UK market.


Wasn't GSS simply a creation by BA in conjunction with Atlas or Polar to get around having to pay the crews BA rates and terms ? Those short lived 747-8 freighters ended up at Polar did they not ?
 
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VCVSpotter
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Re: What happened to British Airways world cargo?

Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:19 pm

JannEejit wrote:
TC957 wrote:
BAWC ceased operations at the end of April 2014, and basically took Global Supply Systems down with them, from whom the 3 747-8F's were leased. CargoLogicAir was formed afterwards to fill the capacity gap in the UK market.


Wasn't GSS simply a creation by BA in conjunction with Atlas or Polar to get around having to pay the crews BA rates and terms ? Those short lived 747-8 freighters ended up at Polar did they not ?


Yes, the three ex BA World Cargo 748Fs are now with Polar. Current registrations are N856GT, N857GT, N858GT.
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Aisak
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Re: What happened to British Airways world cargo?

Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:37 pm

There is still (not sure during Covid) a 757F flying every night between the Canaries and MAD. It carries both codes BA9001 and IB9001. That's for sure IAG Cargo operated by someone else.
Back in the day, IB sent several 343/6 down to the Canaries mainly for Cargo. It seems it's now better for them to use the Express A320/1 and run this dedicated cargo flight at nights
 
SueD
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Re: What happened to British Airways world cargo?

Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:10 pm

Aisak wrote:
There is still (not sure during Covid) a 757F flying every night between the Canaries and MAD. It carries both codes BA9001 and IB9001. That's for sure IAG Cargo operated by someone else.
Back in the day, IB sent several 343/6 down to the Canaries mainly for Cargo. It seems it's now better for them to use the Express A320/1 and run this dedicated cargo flight at nights


Cygnus (Swan) have been operating IB and now IAG cargo flights for years .
 
BealineV953
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Re: What happened to British Airways world cargo?

Sun Aug 09, 2020 8:50 am

skipness1E wrote:
They were mainly used to Hong Kong and places East, the capacity gap was replaced by Qatar Cargo increasing their STN flights as per agreement with IAG.


The 747-400F and 747-8F freighters were used on routes that, from memory, went something like:
IAH and / or JFK - STN - FRA - DXB - HKG - PVG.
Ever since childhood, when I lived within sight of London Airport, I have seldom seen a plane go by and not wished I was on it.”
With apologies to Paul Theroux - ‘The Great Railway Bazaar’
 
BealineV953
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Re: What happened to British Airways world cargo?

Sun Aug 09, 2020 9:06 am

SueD wrote:
BA also took delivery of three B747-236B (scd) models G-BDXM, G-BDXN AND G-BDXP operated between 1987 and 1991 however It was exceptional rare to use the cargo door with BA

Three further combis were also used at various times two leased from MEA and further acquired during the take over of British Caledonians however I don’t believe BA used the combi facilities on these aircraft.


The two 747 leased from MEA (G-BLVE and G-BLVF) were delivered to BA in 1985. I believe they were operated in Combi configuration. In 1987 LVF went to British Airtours in all-passenger configuration. Both were returned to MEA in 1990.
G-BDXM (entered service March 87), DXN (e/s April 87) and DXP (e/s March 88) were delivered in Combi configuration.
Another airline suffered a fire on the main-deck cargo area of a 747 combi and as a result 747 combis were to be modified to have greatly improved fire suppression and were to carry a flying fireman. BA decided that changes were uneconomic, and converted all three to full passenger configuration. DXP operated the last Combi service in May '91.
Top of my head I can't remember the Combi routes, but I'm pretty sure that LHR-ANC-NRT was one of them. LON-BOG-CCS was certainly flown by Combi's, with fresh cut flowers uplifted from Bogota on the inbound service.
Ever since childhood, when I lived within sight of London Airport, I have seldom seen a plane go by and not wished I was on it.”
With apologies to Paul Theroux - ‘The Great Railway Bazaar’
 
BealineV953
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Re: What happened to British Airways world cargo?

Sun Aug 09, 2020 9:21 am

Antarius wrote:
BA World Cargo was consumed by IAG Cargo.

IAG has a lot of aircraft going to a lot of places (BA, IB, EI etc), so they utilize the belly space of pax aircraft vs operating a dedicated fleet.


BA World Cargo was a marketing and operations organisation, responsible for selling space on BA services (primarily under the floor on passenger services) and handling cargo for BA. Handling cargo means accepting it from freight forwarders, loading it onto and off of aircraft and handing it to freight handlers and / or importers.
In recent years BA World Cargo managed the 747 freighter services, being responsible for the relationship with Atlas through Global Supply. The 747Fs were effectively replaced by Qatar 777Fs.
BA World Cargo also managed the services operated by DHL for BA mentioned by other posters. These services are now managed by IAG cargo.
A few years ago BAWC merged with Iberia Cargo to create IAG Cargo.
Ever since childhood, when I lived within sight of London Airport, I have seldom seen a plane go by and not wished I was on it.”
With apologies to Paul Theroux - ‘The Great Railway Bazaar’
 
fromheretohere9
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Re: What happened to British Airways world cargo?

Sun Aug 09, 2020 10:20 am

Just to clarify. The Qatar Cargo B77F’s come from HKG via DOH to STN with BA cargo. They leave empty 99.99% of the time to different European cities (FRA, MXP, CDG, BRU, OSL) then pick up their own freight from there.

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