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x1234
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Did QF buy the B744ER specifically for the MEL-LAX route?

Mon Aug 10, 2020 7:40 pm

I was reading QF history while in quarantine and saw that they launched in 2002 the B744ER specifically for the MEL-LAX route to take full payload. How times have changed and it was a A380/787 but next year if the corona-virus is in control it will be a B789. UA is now on MEL-LAX/SFO giving QF some competition.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Did QF buy the B744ER specifically for the MEL-LAX route?

Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:44 pm

UA has been flying to MEL nonstop (first from LAX) and then from SFO long before the pandemic took hold. LAX-MEL started in 2015 with one of the first batches of 787-9's UA received. The route was first announced in October 2014. The SFO-MEL route was added last year. Not sure if the specifications of the 744ER were directly tied to the need for QF to operate LAX to MEL nonstop. Believe QF operated a total of 6 747-400ERs. LAX-MEL was for a time the longest flight in the UA network when it launched and briefly operated alongside the 777 from LAX to SYD before UA transitioned all long hauls to the 787-9 (LHR, PVG, NRT, SYD, MEL) out of LAX.
 
USAirALB
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Re: Did QF buy the B744ER specifically for the MEL-LAX route?

Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:00 pm

UA also did LAX-MEL nonstop before 9/11 for a while and also ran LAX-MEL nonstop during the Christmas season occasionally, both were on 744s.
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tullamarine
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Re: Did QF buy the B744ER specifically for the MEL-LAX route?

Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:02 pm

UA actually began operating MEL-LAX nonstop back in 1999 with a 744 but the route didn't last long as the westbound flight was too capacity limited to be economic.

QF has had competition on MEL-LAX for a number of years with both UA and VA also plying the route. VA is unlikely to return to the route for at least 3 years.
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Weatherwatcher1
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Re: Did QF buy the B744ER specifically for the MEL-LAX route?

Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:22 pm

The payload increase for the 747-400ER allowed LAX-MEL with a full load of seats. A 747-400 would need seats blocked westbound.

The 747-400ER payload increase was also useful for LAX-SYD since it allowed more cargo to be carried. It also was useful for days when the flight needed to enough fuel for MEL to be an alternate. When weather is bad, there aren’t that many nearby alternates for SYD combined with a decent risk for weather diversions since long haul flights from the United States are arriving very early in the morning when fog can be prevalent. The 747-400ER helped with payload reductions when fog was in the forecast causing the planes to leave LAX with more diversion fuel.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Did QF buy the B744ER specifically for the MEL-LAX route?

Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:27 pm

tullamarine wrote:
VA is unlikely to return to the route for at least 3 years.

Probably going to be a lot longer than that, seeing as they're apparently giving up all of their widebodies. If anything, they'll probably have DL step in for them.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Did QF buy the B744ER specifically for the MEL-LAX route?

Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:44 pm

x1234 wrote:
I was reading QF history while in quarantine and saw that they launched in 2002 the B744ER specifically for the MEL-LAX route to take full payload.


Extracts from a Boeing press release in 2002 upon first delivery:

The international airline, based in Sydney, Australia, is the launch customer for the model, having placed an order in December 2000 for six of the new jetliners. Qantas plans to use the airplanes, which can fly farther than earlier models of the Boeing 747, on ultra-long routes across the Pacific.

The 747-400ER is the same size as today's 747-400, but can either fly farther or carry more payload. The airplane has an increased takeoff weight of 910,000 pounds (412,770 kilograms) -- 35,000 pounds (15,876 kilograms) more than the existing 747-400 airplane.

That extra takeoff weight allows operators to fly about 500 miles (805 kilometers) farther or carry 15,000 pounds (6,800 kilograms) more passengers or cargo, a key capability on demanding long-haul Pacific routes such as Melbourne-Los Angeles. The key to additional range is a series of new fuselage fuel tanks.


https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2002-10-30 ... o-Qantas,1
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Did QF buy the B744ER specifically for the MEL-LAX route?

Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:32 am

For the record QF launched MEL-LAX in October 1999 6 weeks before UA did the same, UA had announced they were doing it a few weeks before QF, both ran a daily 744 MEL-AKL-LAX prior to that, QF used its newest 3 RR powered 744s and the 3 second hand GE aircraft most of the time as they had slightly improved performance over the older 744s. They did this until the 744ER was ordered. UA lasted 18 months but the PW 744s took to much of a hit, they went back to via AKL and then several years via SYD until 2014/15 when they got the 789 and did LAX-MEL non stop again.

The ER was purchased by QF for routes like MEL-LAX where it was exclusively used 99.9% of the time, the rest of the ER fleet was usually on routes like LAX-SYD but sometimes JNB, there was a brief period I remember when they were new that they appeared on AKL-LAX a bit and also LHR routes. They had also planned DFW via AKL when the ER was ordered but that never happened, I think they saw better yield in doing DFW non stop from Australia. A regular 744 could have done DFW-AKL, probably with a few seats blocked in winter.
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: Did QF buy the B744ER specifically for the MEL-LAX route?

Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:03 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
VA is unlikely to return to the route for at least 3 years.

Probably going to be a lot longer than that, seeing as they're apparently giving up all of their widebodies. If anything, they'll probably have DL step in for them.


Using an A359 with fuel stops in HNL, NAN, AKL, SYD and CBR, presumably.
 
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vhtje
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Re: Did QF buy the B744ER specifically for the MEL-LAX route?

Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:09 pm

I will always remember taking off from SYD on 07 in June 2000 in a QF 747-438 heading to LAX. I was surprised - amazed - that a 747-400 could take off from runway 07 - 2,530m - for such a long flight. I assume it wouldn't have been full laden? How much runway does a full-laden 747-400 need?
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
DylanHarvey
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Re: Did QF buy the B744ER specifically for the MEL-LAX route?

Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:30 pm

MrHMSH wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
VA is unlikely to return to the route for at least 3 years.

Probably going to be a lot longer than that, seeing as they're apparently giving up all of their widebodies. If anything, they'll probably have DL step in for them.


Using an A359 with fuel stops in HNL, NAN, AKL, SYD and CBR, presumably.

This had me rolling lmao. Maybe one in WLG too.
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: Did QF buy the B744ER specifically for the MEL-LAX route?

Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:38 pm

vhtje wrote:
I will always remember taking off from SYD on 07 in June 2000 in a QF 747-438 heading to LAX. I was surprised - amazed - that a 747-400 could take off from runway 07 - 2,530m - for such a long flight. I assume it wouldn't have been full laden? How much runway does a full-laden 747-400 need?



That is very impressive, but it probably wasn't at 'fully-laden' going Eastbound. Very heavy, certainly, but not at MTOW.

SYD is also at sea level and what would have been winter down in Australia, meaning cooler temperatures.
Whatever
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Did QF buy the B744ER specifically for the MEL-LAX route?

Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:49 pm

MrHMSH wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
VA is unlikely to return to the route for at least 3 years.

Probably going to be a lot longer than that, seeing as they're apparently giving up all of their widebodies. If anything, they'll probably have DL step in for them.


Using an A359 with fuel stops in HNL, NAN, AKL, SYD and CBR, presumably.

You win. :bigthumbsup:
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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vhtje
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Re: Did QF buy the B744ER specifically for the MEL-LAX route?

Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:15 am

FriscoHeavy wrote:
vhtje wrote:
I will always remember taking off from SYD on 07 in June 2000 in a QF 747-438 heading to LAX. I was surprised - amazed - that a 747-400 could take off from runway 07 - 2,530m - for such a long flight. I assume it wouldn't have been full laden? How much runway does a full-laden 747-400 need?



That is very impressive, but it probably wasn't at 'fully-laden' going Eastbound. Very heavy, certainly, but not at MTOW.

SYD is also at sea level and what would have been winter down in Australia, meaning cooler temperatures.



Hmmm, why was my written "fully-laden" changed to "full laden" when this thread was moved to the TP&P forum? I take great offence at the incorrect use of English thereby being attributed to me.

Thank you for your response. As I remember it, it was a warmish day for winter, bright and sunny, low to mid-20s. I remember the flight being very full, at least in my cabin. Then again, it was over twenty years ago.

But the reason I remember it so well, was because I had confidently told my travelling companion as we taxied that it would be a longish taxi from the stand to the bottom of 34L; since it was a long flight the aircraft would be heavily fuelled, so we would need to use the longest runway. Instead, we turned onto 07 very quickly and went into full thrust. Leaving me with egg all over my face. We did have fantastic views of Sydney as we climbed.
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
Kent350787
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Re: Did QF buy the B744ER specifically for the MEL-LAX route?

Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:19 pm

vhtje wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:
vhtje wrote:
I will always remember taking off from SYD on 07 in June 2000 in a QF 747-438 heading to LAX. I was surprised - amazed - that a 747-400 could take off from runway 07 - 2,530m - for such a long flight. I assume it wouldn't have been full laden? How much runway does a full-laden 747-400 need?



That is very impressive, but it probably wasn't at 'fully-laden' going Eastbound. Very heavy, certainly, but not at MTOW.

SYD is also at sea level and what would have been winter down in Australia, meaning cooler temperatures.



Hmmm, why was my written "fully-laden" changed to "full laden" when this thread was moved to the TP&P forum? I take great offence at the incorrect use of English thereby being attributed to me.

Thank you for your response. As I remember it, it was a warmish day for winter, bright and sunny, low to mid-20s. I remember the flight being very full, at least in my cabin. Then again, it was over twenty years ago.

But the reason I remember it so well, was because I had confidently told my travelling companion as we taxied that it would be a longish taxi from the stand to the bottom of 34L; since it was a long flight the aircraft would be heavily fuelled, so we would need to use the longest runway. Instead, we turned onto 07 very quickly and went into full thrust. Leaving me with egg all over my face. We did have fantastic views of Sydney as we climbed.


Wow, I don't know that I've ever seen an 07 heavy long-haul departure - 25, sure, into a winter westerly (as per Sam Chui's shot that used to be the a.net banner), but never 07. Must have been a rare treat.
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