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catiii
Posts: 3609
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Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

Thu Aug 13, 2020 5:05 pm

Max Q wrote:
Since my first flying lesson in 1979 and working as a professional pilot from 1982 I’ve never said ‘niner’ or heard another pilot say it anywhere in the world at any time


And ‘W’ is Whiskey all over the world


Don’t know where this BS gets started.


I have only ever used it, for whatever reason, in the context of an altimeter setting. I rarely hear it used outside of that context, and cant think of a time I have used it as a callsign.
 
XRadar98
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun May 01, 2016 4:23 am

Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

Thu Aug 13, 2020 5:05 pm

    FLALEFTY wrote:
    Here's a question that I have always wondered: Do controllers have their own microphone/headsets, or do they use communal ones?


    We all have our own, issued by the FAA.
     
    twaconnie
    Posts: 270
    Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:18 pm

    Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

    Thu Aug 13, 2020 5:11 pm

    Phen wrote:
    Heathrow Director frequency at LHR is a marvel to behold. Probably the busiest frequency in European airspace. During a busy period there are ZERO gaps on frequency - constant to and fro with the controller who is issuing instructions to different aircraft one after the other, some in the hold and the rest on approach. And all of this leads to the very tight separation you see on finals at LHR. As a pilot you really have to be on your toes to make sure you don't miss a call and that you respond immediately.

    It always strikes me as being very formal compared to other airports, especially in the USA but I suppose it has to be, because there are such high volumes of traffic from every corner of the world. I remember once I heard a Delta airlines pilot broadcast his pre-landing passenger PA on Heathrow Director frequency by accident - about 45 seconds which felt like the longest ever - thats one frequency you do not want to block with a PA. The controller just carried on like nothing had happened, probably didn't have the time to chastise him about it!

    (Edit: I believe due to an archaic law its not legal to listen to UK ATC which is a shame because this frequency would be highly entertaining to listen to)

    I wonder how they could ever enforce this law, any one with a scanner can listen from almost any were as lone there in range.
     
    VS11
    Posts: 1661
    Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2001 6:34 am

    Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

    Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:39 pm

    XRadar98 wrote:
      FLALEFTY wrote:
      Here's a question that I have always wondered: Do controllers have their own microphone/headsets, or do they use communal ones?


      We all have our own, issued by the FAA.


      Curious to know what brand. Do you get to choose the set? Bose? David Clark?
       
      XRadar98
      Posts: 83
      Joined: Sun May 01, 2016 4:23 am

      Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

      Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:20 pm

      VS11 wrote:
      XRadar98 wrote:
        FLALEFTY wrote:
        Here's a question that I have always wondered: Do controllers have their own microphone/headsets, or do they use communal ones?


        We all have our own, issued by the FAA.


        Curious to know what brand. Do you get to choose the set? Bose? David Clark?


        No choice, and every facility I’ve been it’s Plantronics. I suppose you could get your own, however the jack to plug into seems pretty unique.
         
        VS11
        Posts: 1661
        Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2001 6:34 am

        Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

        Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:45 pm

        XRadar98 wrote:
        VS11 wrote:
        XRadar98 wrote:

          We all have our own, issued by the FAA.


          Curious to know what brand. Do you get to choose the set? Bose? David Clark?


          No choice, and every facility I’ve been it’s Plantronics. I suppose you could get your own, however the jack to plug into seems pretty unique.


          Very interesting. Thank you!
           
          jmc757
          Posts: 1242
          Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2000 3:36 am

          Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

          Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:04 pm

          twaconnie wrote:
          Phen wrote:
          Heathrow Director frequency at LHR is a marvel to behold. Probably the busiest frequency in European airspace. During a busy period there are ZERO gaps on frequency - constant to and fro with the controller who is issuing instructions to different aircraft one after the other, some in the hold and the rest on approach. And all of this leads to the very tight separation you see on finals at LHR. As a pilot you really have to be on your toes to make sure you don't miss a call and that you respond immediately.

          It always strikes me as being very formal compared to other airports, especially in the USA but I suppose it has to be, because there are such high volumes of traffic from every corner of the world. I remember once I heard a Delta airlines pilot broadcast his pre-landing passenger PA on Heathrow Director frequency by accident - about 45 seconds which felt like the longest ever - thats one frequency you do not want to block with a PA. The controller just carried on like nothing had happened, probably didn't have the time to chastise him about it!

          (Edit: I believe due to an archaic law its not legal to listen to UK ATC which is a shame because this frequency would be highly entertaining to listen to)

          I wonder how they could ever enforce this law, any one with a scanner can listen from almost any were as lone there in range.



          It's one of those laws that would very rarely need to be enforced. Even though the law exists, I don't think anyone is particularly bothered about private enthusiasts listening in. Go to any of the big airports in the UK on a weekend and you'll find spotters with arband radios and I don't think anyone ever gets challenged. In the past there's been hobby shops at the airports selling scanners, again without problem.

          Might cause more of an issue if you started streaming onto LiveATC or similar though, you might find someone enforce the law at that point.
           
          atcdan
          Posts: 44
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          Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

          Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:06 pm

          The headsets used by the majority of ATC’s in the US (FAA) only go in to one ear and they don’t actually cover your ear like many pilot headsets.

          We generally need to be able to hear the environment/ people around us just as clearly as we do the pilots. Lots of important ATC coordination occurs simply by talking to one another “off line”
          Tower Controller
          VNY, DFW, LAX
          All posts are my own opinions and do not represent my employer or any government entity in any way!
           
          jmc757
          Posts: 1242
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          Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

          Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:06 pm

          VS11 wrote:
          XRadar98 wrote:
            FLALEFTY wrote:
            Here's a question that I have always wondered: Do controllers have their own microphone/headsets, or do they use communal ones?


            We all have our own, issued by the FAA.


            Curious to know what brand. Do you get to choose the set? Bose? David Clark?



            Sennheiser or Clement Clarke where I've worked.
             
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            tb727
            Posts: 2226
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            Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

            Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:09 pm

            Alias1024 wrote:
            bradyj23 wrote:
            atcsundevil wrote:
            Some of these remind me of the Key & Peele substitute teacher skit where the teacher is mispronouncing the students names and getting angry when they correct him.


            Haha I had an FO bring this skit up and call DLAKE as De-La-kay going to IAH.

            I owe another guy a dollar for saying Meat Rocket instead of Motor City for MTRCT.
            Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
             
            TonyClifton
            Posts: 265
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            Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

            Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:37 pm

            tb727 wrote:
            Alias1024 wrote:
            bradyj23 wrote:


            Haha I had an FO bring this skit up and call DLAKE as De-La-kay going to IAH.

            I owe another guy a dollar for saying Meat Rocket instead of Motor City for MTRCT.

            I absolutely murdered the PLMTO first time I left CHS... PLFMD wasn’t much better.

            It’s Fairway into PBI and not Freeway I learned too.
             
            b747400erf
            Posts: 3165
            Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:33 am

            Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

            Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:51 pm

            SRQfoxtrot wrote:
            In the phonetic alphabet, “Whiskey” is not used in some Islamic areas where its connotations to alcohol is offensive. .


            I think someone played a joke telling you this :lol:
             
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            atcsundevil
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            Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

            Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:13 pm

            VS11 wrote:
            XRadar98 wrote:
              FLALEFTY wrote:
              Here's a question that I have always wondered: Do controllers have their own microphone/headsets, or do they use communal ones?


              We all have our own, issued by the FAA.


              Curious to know what brand. Do you get to choose the set? Bose? David Clark?

              As mentioned, we all use Plantronics in the US. I don't know about every facility, but we currently have a choice of three styles at mine. One option is an over-the-ear on both sides, but I've only ever seen one guy use that style. There used to be an older style with a flexible boom, and another with a different style of ear piece, but I haven't seen either in a while. At least 99.999% of controllers use a single in-ear bippy with a fixed boom that sits on top of the ear. There's also a way to attach it to glasses, but it's not really necessary. I suppose we could technically get our own if we wanted, but there's no reason. It's pretty good quality and components wear out or require repair, so I don't think anybody would spend their own money on that. The only customizations I've seen are molded ear pieces.

              Also mentioned, we pretty much all use single ear piece headsets because it increases situational awareness. We need to be able to hear our frequency and the controllers around us at the same time. I know a lot of other countries use large over-the-ear headsets, and obviously it works for them, but it would drive me crazy. No one should need both ears to hear the frequency. Some controllers will even change which side they wear their headset based on the position, but most don't.
               
              Alias1024
              Posts: 2677
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              Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

              Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:27 pm

              tb727 wrote:

              I owe another guy a dollar for saying Meat Rocket instead of Motor City for MTRCT.


              :rotfl:
              Some things can’t be unseen. I’ll never look at that departure the same again!
              It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
               
              bluejuice
              Posts: 386
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              Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

              Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:46 pm

              I was getting my PPL when "position and hold" was changed to "line up and wait." The reasoning I'm told was the old phrase could be misinterpreted as, "position and go" leading to an accident. Unlike commercial pilots, weekend warriors in pistons are not always up to date on the latest AIM revisions. Even months later, I would hear an occasional, "Huh? Please repeat" when a pilot was asked to "line up and wait."

              Speaking of fun controllers to listen to, Boston John used to always bring a smile to my face.
              Not biased against vacuum flush.
               
              VS11
              Posts: 1661
              Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2001 6:34 am

              Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

              Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:32 am

              atcsundevil wrote:
              VS11 wrote:
              XRadar98 wrote:

                We all have our own, issued by the FAA.


                Curious to know what brand. Do you get to choose the set? Bose? David Clark?

                As mentioned, we all use Plantronics in the US. I don't know about every facility, but we currently have a choice of three styles at mine. One option is an over-the-ear on both sides, but I've only ever seen one guy use that style. There used to be an older style with a flexible boom, and another with a different style of ear piece, but I haven't seen either in a while. At least 99.999% of controllers use a single in-ear bippy with a fixed boom that sits on top of the ear. There's also a way to attach it to glasses, but it's not really necessary. I suppose we could technically get our own if we wanted, but there's no reason. It's pretty good quality and components wear out or require repair, so I don't think anybody would spend their own money on that. The only customizations I've seen are molded ear pieces.

                Also mentioned, we pretty much all use single ear piece headsets because it increases situational awareness. We need to be able to hear our frequency and the controllers around us at the same time. I know a lot of other countries use large over-the-ear headsets, and obviously it works for them, but it would drive me crazy. No one should need both ears to hear the frequency. Some controllers will even change which side they wear their headset based on the position, but most don't.


                Thank you! I think student pilots/pilots ponder a lot which brand to buy but I guess at an ATC facility noise cancellation is not really needed.
                 
                krsw757
                Posts: 93
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                Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

                Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:38 am

                We have our own headsets.
                 
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                atcsundevil
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                Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

                Fri Aug 14, 2020 4:23 am

                VS11 wrote:
                but I guess at an ATC facility noise cancellation is not really needed.

                I mean........depends on who you're working with.
                 
                Chemist
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                Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

                Fri Aug 14, 2020 4:52 am

                I'm a GA pilot for 30 years and have always used "niner". It seems I hear both nine and niner each about 50% of the time on the frequencies.
                 
                spacecadet
                Posts: 3573
                Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2001 3:36 am

                Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

                Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:30 am

                bluejuice wrote:
                I was getting my PPL when "position and hold" was changed to "line up and wait." The reasoning I'm told was the old phrase could be misinterpreted as, "position and go" leading to an accident.


                The reason it was changed is that the ICAO standard is line up and wait. If you flew to any other country, that's what you'd hear. The FAA changed it to avoid confusion when pilots flew between the US and other countries.

                Also, there was always the potential for confusion between "position and hold" and "traffic holding in position", which sound like they describe the same thing but are actually totally different. One of those two phrases needed to be changed at some point.
                I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
                 
                Woodreau
                Posts: 1935
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                Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

                Fri Aug 14, 2020 12:43 pm

                There was a notable accident in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, where the controller issued an instruction “Descend Two Four Hundred”. (2,400 feet)
                Unfortunately the pilots heard “Descend to four hundred” (400 feet). So they descended to 400ft and impacted the terrain destroying the aircraft.

                Niner, fife and tree used in the military as well. Makes a big difference when you’re reading out target location grid squares and could potentially send ordnance downrange to the wrong location if the numbers were misunderstood.

                There is also a reason why you “SAY AGAIN” instead of “REPEAT” in aviation. Again because it came from military radiotelephone procedures. REPEAT is a fire control order to fire the last fire control solution again (Send more ordnance downrange to the same target location) . Much different response than if you just wanted the other guy to repeat what he said over the radio.

                There was a fix POOBR that got mispronounced a lot leaving DFW. I think they eventually discountinued it and renamed it. But since it was associated with KANGA, TYGGR, PIGLT, EEORE, ROOOO as a set of waypoints on the west side departures, I think it was meant to be pronounced as “Pooh Bear” after Winnie the Pooh.
                Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
                 
                Aspen71
                Posts: 5
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                Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

                Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:10 pm

                Here is a good example of why standard phraseology needs to be adhered to.

                I was a controller at Albuquerque ARTCC in the 80s, and early 90s. We had a controller who was known to be very lax with his phraseology. He thought it was cool to make up his own funny way of saying/naming things, and was written up often for poor phraseology during evaluations, but not often enough evidently.

                One day he was working the high altitude sector north of PHX. There was a pretty steady line of departures climbing out headed for California, the Pacific Northwest, and the Rocky Mountain states. He had an America West jet climbing out of about FL240 that he had cleared to FL350 when he recognized a little late that he had a westbound aircraft at FL280 that was in direct conflict with his climber.

                The correct clearance to resolve the conflicting should have been-"America West (number) amend altitude, climb and maintain flight level two seven zero." Followed immediately by "Traffic, two o'clock and two zero miles, westbound (type) at flight level two eight zero"

                Instead, here was his clearance: America West (number) hold it up at twenty seven for three, and higher later."

                Here was the read back: Okay, America West (number) Albuquerque on twenty seven point three and we'll see you later."

                The two airplanes ended up at their closest point less than a mile apart at the same altitude as the America West plane climbed right through the protected airspace of the westbound jet.

                There wouldn't have been time for another controller to help anyway, but we didn't even have a sector that used 127.3 so the pilot went over to 127.3, and called a couple times before giving up and coming back a few minutes later to say, "Hey Albuquerque, nobody home on one twenty seven point three."

                This took place in the days before TCAS.
                 
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                atcsundevil
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                Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

                Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:58 pm

                Aspen71 wrote:
                Here is a good example of why standard phraseology needs to be adhered to.

                I was a controller at Albuquerque ARTCC in the 80s, and early 90s. We had a controller who was known to be very lax with his phraseology. He thought it was cool to make up his own funny way of saying/naming things, and was written up often for poor phraseology during evaluations, but not often enough evidently.

                One day he was working the high altitude sector north of PHX. There was a pretty steady line of departures climbing out headed for California, the Pacific Northwest, and the Rocky Mountain states. He had an America West jet climbing out of about FL240 that he had cleared to FL350 when he recognized a little late that he had a westbound aircraft at FL280 that was in direct conflict with his climber.

                The correct clearance to resolve the conflicting should have been-"America West (number) amend altitude, climb and maintain flight level two seven zero." Followed immediately by "Traffic, two o'clock and two zero miles, westbound (type) at flight level two eight zero"

                Instead, here was his clearance: America West (number) hold it up at twenty seven for three, and higher later."

                Here was the read back: Okay, America West (number) Albuquerque on twenty seven point three and we'll see you later."

                The two airplanes ended up at their closest point less than a mile apart at the same altitude as the America West plane climbed right through the protected airspace of the westbound jet.

                There wouldn't have been time for another controller to help anyway, but we didn't even have a sector that used 127.3 so the pilot went over to 127.3, and called a couple times before giving up and coming back a few minutes later to say, "Hey Albuquerque, nobody home on one twenty seven point three."

                This took place in the days before TCAS.

                This makes my head hurt :banghead:

                There are times when the phraseology gods will forgive you of your transgressions, but bad phraseology to ensure separation definitely ain't one of 'em!
                 
                SPREE34
                Posts: 1744
                Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 6:09 am

                Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

                Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:01 pm

                Aspen71 wrote:
                Here is a good example of why standard phraseology needs to be adhered to.

                I was a controller at Albuquerque ARTCC in the 80s, and early 90s. ......


                I was a ZAB East guy early to mid 80s. Which NW Specialty dude did this?
                I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
                 
                GalaxyFlyer
                Posts: 6252
                Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

                Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

                Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:01 pm

                Woodreau wrote:
                There was a notable accident in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, where the controller issued an instruction “Descend Two Four Hundred”. (2,400 feet)
                Unfortunately the pilots heard “Descend to four hundred” (400 feet). So they descended to 400ft and impacted the terrain destroying the aircraft.

                Niner, fife and tree used in the military as well. Makes a big difference when you’re reading out target location grid squares and could potentially send ordnance downrange to the wrong location if the numbers were misunderstood.

                There is also a reason why you “SAY AGAIN” instead of “REPEAT” in aviation. Again because it came from military radiotelephone procedures. REPEAT is a fire control order to fire the last fire control solution again (Send more ordnance downrange to the same target location) . Much different response than if you just wanted the other guy to repeat what he said over the radio.

                There was a fix POOBR that got mispronounced a lot leaving DFW. I think they eventually discountinued it and renamed it. But since it was associated with KANGA, TYGGR, PIGLT, EEORE, ROOOO as a set of waypoints on the west side departures, I think it was meant to be pronounced as “Pooh Bear” after Winnie the Pooh.


                FT 66, VHHH-WMSA (Subang)
                 
                Aspen71
                Posts: 5
                Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:22 am

                Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

                Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:37 pm

                SPREE34 wrote:
                Aspen71 wrote:
                Here is a good example of why standard phraseology needs to be adhered to.

                I was a controller at Albuquerque ARTCC in the 80s, and early 90s. ......


                I was a ZAB East guy early to mid 80s. Which NW Specialty dude did this?


                Not sure how cool it is to mention somebody by name on a forum. Maybe you can figure it out from a couple hints. His real life initials were JD ( I don’t remember what his operating initials were, but they might have been JD also) He used to take every break at the smokers corner by the bend in the hallway between the control room and the cafeteria, he tragically passed away in his mid/late forties while still an employee of a heart attack not long after this incident. He was going to go fishing on an RDO and he died in his garage hooking his boat trailer up to his truck. If those clues don’t get it for you, send me a personal message on here.

                I was in the East also from 83-88. My user name is Aspen because if you recall that was the SR71 call sign on those training flights we would see a couple times a month during that era. Maybe drop me a personal note anyway even if you figure out who is was.
                 
                CaptCoolHand
                Posts: 96
                Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:24 pm

                Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

                Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:01 pm

                I’m an airline pilot and I’m married to an air traffic controller... you should hear some of our exchanges.

                ;-p
                 
                VS11
                Posts: 1661
                Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2001 6:34 am

                Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

                Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:08 am

                CaptCoolHand wrote:
                I’m an airline pilot and I’m married to an air traffic controller... you should hear some of our exchanges.

                ;-p


                Do tell!! You probably have to read back all instructions...in the kitchen...and elsewhere... :D
                 
                wetpantsmcgee
                Posts: 90
                Joined: Fri May 20, 2011 1:23 am

                Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

                Sat Aug 15, 2020 2:18 am

                tb727 wrote:
                Alias1024 wrote:
                bradyj23 wrote:


                Haha I had an FO bring this skit up and call DLAKE as De-La-kay going to IAH.

                I owe another guy a dollar for saying Meat Rocket instead of Motor City for MTRCT.


                Glad I wasn't consuming anything when I read this, or I surely would have choked.
                 
                ATCSuggester
                Posts: 17
                Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:24 pm

                Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

                Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:39 am

                The FAA gives us our own headsets (refurbished ones of course). Most of us use the Plantronics H31CD with the pink bippee and the push to talk that sometimes gets referred to as the "pickle".

                With that being said at my previous facility when it was slow we would all use a handset that looks like a telephone and put the comms going through a loud speaker to hear the pilots. Those things were rarely cleaned and gross but it was nice because you could walk around the tower or radar room and not be plugged in. I moved to a new facility right before covid happened so I'm not sure what guidance was put out regarding "communal items". Also keyboards were not for the faint of heart either if someone was snacking on some Cheetos or Buffalo Wild Wings before you took the position. Wipe everything down!!!
                 
                dr1980
                Posts: 183
                Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:55 pm

                Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

                Sat Aug 15, 2020 3:24 pm

                gunsontheroof wrote:
                This has been one of the better threads around here in awhile, thanks to all the ATC/pilots for chiming in!


                Agreed, it has been a really interesting read.
                Dave/CYHZ
                 
                75driver
                Posts: 124
                Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:02 pm

                Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

                Sat Aug 15, 2020 6:08 pm

                I think everyone is on the same page re: comms. I know the nine/niner thing is a tad different in some situations but nobody can claim it’s some gross oversight of non compliance by US pilots. I still say ATC calling out “One Thousand Niner Zero Zero” is odd when the next comm is “One Thousand Eight Hundred”. It’s just picking nits to think nine/niner has some far reaching impact on standardized comms or safety.

                If you want to start talking about what we’ve found in the cockpit then I have a pile of interesting stories, some I might not be able to post here. Similarly, the cabin crew has some horror stores to share as well. Much like the buffalo chicken or cheetos being eaten over a keyboard. Ugh, gross.
                 
                AAtakeMeAway
                Posts: 472
                Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:59 am

                Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

                Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:35 pm

                A few years ago at LAS some pilots had interesting "repartee" with a seemingly intoxicated controller. What ever happened with that?
                 
                32andBelow
                Posts: 5006
                Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

                Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

                Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:07 pm

                AAtakeMeAway wrote:
                A few years ago at LAS some pilots had interesting "repartee" with a seemingly intoxicated controller. What ever happened with that?

                She quit
                 
                bravoindia
                Posts: 219
                Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 5:07 pm

                Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

                Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:45 pm

                atcsundevil wrote:
                75driver wrote:
                I’ve heard you! I’m always happy to play along. I know it’s not kosher but introducing a little levity in a chaotic environment seems appropriate from time to time. The whole Star Wars thing is funny, Jedi, Skywalker, Sith. You weren’t the one who blurted out “SHART” were you? We heard some traffic a few years back and was like W H A T? They even read it back and we damn near “sharted” ourselves. Turned out the FO tuned the wrong frequency but funny nonetheless.

                :rotfl: Not me, but now that I've heard it, anything is possible. I agree that well-placed levity is a good thing. Too many pilots and controllers have an "us vs. them" mentality, which I've never understood. Reminders that we're all human helps bridge that gap. Back in the spring, I was giving a lot of "...turn 15 degrees right, vectors for social distancing." Sometimes it helps to smile a bit when times are weird.

                It’s a shame live atc doesn’t have better feeds for ZTL and A80. I’ve tried to get them to but so far nothing.
                 
                bravoindia
                Posts: 219
                Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 5:07 pm

                Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

                Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:48 pm

                bradyj23 wrote:
                atcsundevil wrote:
                75driver wrote:
                I’ve heard you! I’m always happy to play along. I know it’s not kosher but introducing a little levity in a chaotic environment seems appropriate from time to time. The whole Star Wars thing is funny, Jedi, Skywalker, Sith. You weren’t the one who blurted out “SHART” were you? We heard some traffic a few years back and was like W H A T? They even read it back and we damn near “sharted” ourselves. Turned out the FO tuned the wrong frequency but funny nonetheless.

                :rotfl: Not me, but now that I've heard it, anything is possible. I agree that well-placed levity is a good thing. Too many pilots and controllers have an "us vs. them" mentality, which I've never understood. Reminders that we're all human helps bridge that gap. Back in the spring, I was giving a lot of "...turn 15 degrees right, vectors for social distancing." Sometimes it helps to smile a bit when times are weird.


                ATL PLMMR2 departure. I'm still trying to figure out if it's the Palmer or the Plumber departure.....

                It’s Palmer, they’re named after golfers because they go east toward Augusta, Arnold Palmer Jack Nicklaus Phil Mickelson Gary Player.
                 
                User avatar
                atcsundevil
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                Posts: 4290
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                Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

                Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:08 am

                ATCSuggester wrote:
                The FAA gives us our own headsets (refurbished ones of course). Most of us use the Plantronics H31CD with the pink bippee and the push to talk that sometimes gets referred to as the "pickle".

                With that being said at my previous facility when it was slow we would all use a handset that looks like a telephone and put the comms going through a loud speaker to hear the pilots. Those things were rarely cleaned and gross but it was nice because you could walk around the tower or radar room and not be plugged in. I moved to a new facility right before covid happened so I'm not sure what guidance was put out regarding "communal items". Also keyboards were not for the faint of heart either if someone was snacking on some Cheetos or Buffalo Wild Wings before you took the position. Wipe everything down!!!

                We still use the handsets, especially these days with decreased traffic counts. Everything is kept pretty clean now, which is a nice change. It always grossed me out to see someone lick every finger, then reach out for the trackball :yuck: may as well just lick the damn keyboard while you're at it. At least people are trying to be cleaner these days, but who knows if it'll stick.

                AAtakeMeAway wrote:
                A few years ago at LAS some pilots had interesting "repartee" with a seemingly intoxicated controller. What ever happened with that?

                That was actually less than two years ago, but given that 2020 has lasted for several years already, "a few years" is an accurate description. The controller resigned about a week after the incident. I heard some rumors about what occurred, but it's not something I'm going to share. I'm sure you could make some educated guesses and you'd likely be on the right track.

                bravoindia wrote:
                It’s a shame live atc doesn’t have better feeds for ZTL and A80. I’ve tried to get them to but so far nothing.

                I'm not really sure how LiveATC works or how they decide what frequencies are hosted. I just know that none of my sectors are on there anymore. I can't imagine the center frequencies are all that popular.
                 
                AAtakeMeAway
                Posts: 472
                Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:59 am

                Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

                Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:26 pm

                atcsundevil wrote:
                AAtakeMeAway wrote:
                A few years ago at LAS some pilots had interesting "repartee" with a seemingly intoxicated controller. What ever happened with that?

                That was actually less than two years ago, but given that 2020 has lasted for several years already, "a few years" is an accurate description. The controller resigned about a week after the incident. I heard some rumors about what occurred, but it's not something I'm going to share. I'm sure you could make some educated guesses and you'd likely be on the right track.


                Funny about the timing... I have no idea anymore lol
                Thanks for the update.
                 
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                Johnv707
                Posts: 55
                Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 5:24 pm

                Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

                Sun Aug 16, 2020 7:28 pm

                FLALEFTY wrote:
                Here's a question that I have always wondered: Do controllers have their own microphone/headsets, or do they use communal ones?


                As a former Air Traffic Controller at 3 different terminal facilities including LAX Tracon (Terminal Radar approach control), I can assure you that we were issued our own headsets. We had little cubby holes with our names on them, and we stored them there between shifts It was a no no to use someone else's headset.

                Also the term niner was widely used especially when issuing headings ( Delta 210, turn left heading two niner zero) , altitudes (climb and maintain flight level three niner zero) , altimeter settings , clearances, call sighs - in other words - whenever the word nine was needed.
                Memorizing the phonetic alphabet was one of the first assignments in ATC training.
                 
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                atcsundevil
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                Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

                Fri Aug 21, 2020 1:19 am

                atcsundevil wrote:
                GalaxyFlyer wrote:
                In 47 years of flying including 5 at EAL, never D as Dixie except perhaps as a joke. DL”s call sign is Deltaxxxx, xxxx being the flight number.

                The OP is referring to ATL ground using "Taxiway Dixie" instead of "Taxiway Delta" to avoid confusion.

                Of course after years and years of it being referred to as "Dixie" two days ago the taxiway has officially been NOTAM'd as "Taxiway D".

                https://www.universalweather.com/reguse ... ?icao=KATL
                 
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                TheFlyingDisk
                Posts: 2144
                Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:43 pm

                Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

                Fri Aug 21, 2020 2:32 am

                atcsundevil wrote:
                atcsundevil wrote:
                GalaxyFlyer wrote:
                In 47 years of flying including 5 at EAL, never D as Dixie except perhaps as a joke. DL”s call sign is Deltaxxxx, xxxx being the flight number.

                The OP is referring to ATL ground using "Taxiway Dixie" instead of "Taxiway Delta" to avoid confusion.

                Of course after years and years of it being referred to as "Dixie" two days ago the taxiway has officially been NOTAM'd as "Taxiway D".

                https://www.universalweather.com/reguse ... ?icao=KATL


                So not even Delta? Just D?
                I FLY KLM+ALASKA+QATAR+MALAYSIA+AIRASIA+MALINDO
                 
                atcdan
                Posts: 44
                Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:52 am

                Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

                Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:09 am

                D is pronounced “Delta” lol

                A few people with questions about live ATC here. The site was founded and is maintained by an enthusiast and flight instructor out of the Boston area. Almost all ATC feeds are hosted by a volunteer near the airport or transmitter site, a few are even hosted by friendly airport operations departments. At one point he was sending out giant radio racks with recycled obsolete aviation radios. Now I believe most setups are converted to small raspberry pi computers and a large receiver antenna mounted as high as possible in the vicinity of the airport.

                I hosted the channel briefly when I was near DFW, with the antenna up on a flagpole I put up in my backyard. Still was pretty tough getting decent reception from planes on the ground but you could hear everything else pretty well. It’s pretty cool he does all that incurring a good bit of cost, but he started it as a training tool for his students and it’s pretty awesome how well it’s taken off.
                Tower Controller
                VNY, DFW, LAX
                All posts are my own opinions and do not represent my employer or any government entity in any way!
                 
                User avatar
                atcsundevil
                Moderator
                Posts: 4290
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                Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

                Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:38 am

                TheFlyingDisk wrote:
                atcsundevil wrote:
                atcsundevil wrote:
                The OP is referring to ATL ground using "Taxiway Dixie" instead of "Taxiway Delta" to avoid confusion.

                Of course after years and years of it being referred to as "Dixie" two days ago the taxiway has officially been NOTAM'd as "Taxiway D".

                https://www.universalweather.com/reguse ... ?icao=KATL


                So not even Delta? Just D?

                Using "Delta" in a place like ATL tends to have different meanings.

                I thought maybe they'd use "David" or something, but apparently "D" was the chosen replacement for "Dixie" given its connotations.
                 
                uta999
                Posts: 927
                Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:10 am

                Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

                Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:56 am

                Years ago, while listening to the tower at LGW during some stormy weather, ATC told the next departure to "line up and wait on 26L, after the a/c on (very) short final"

                The pilot responded with "Line up and wait 26L after the reversing Shed"

                It was a struggling Shorts 330 on final which landed and taxied off the runway after about 100' roll.

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_330
                Your computer just got better
                 
                GalaxyFlyer
                Posts: 6252
                Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

                Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

                Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:12 am

                Bonkers, but that’s the world we live in.
                 
                LH707330
                Posts: 2353
                Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:27 pm

                Re: Pilot / ATC Repartee

                Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:51 am

                uta999 wrote:
                Years ago, while listening to the tower at LGW during some stormy weather, ATC told the next departure to "line up and wait on 26L, after the a/c on (very) short final"

                The pilot responded with "Line up and wait 26L after the reversing Shed"

                It was a struggling Shorts 330 on final which landed and taxied off the runway after about 100' roll.

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_330


                That's awesome! I often get tempted to make smart-alecky comments on the radio, and mostly resist it. Here are a few I've held back:

                Controller: Cessna 123, traffic is a dash 8, 1 o clock 5000, report in sight.
                Temptation: Got the other bugsmasher

                Controller: Airline 123...? [20 seconds] Airline 123...?
                Temptation: Bueller...?

                Controller: Cessna 123, traffic 11 o clock, same altitude, not talking to them and don't know their intentions.
                Temptation: Got the forked-tail doctor killer, that's typical for them to do their own thing

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