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Flanker7
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KLM new route to Poznan

Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:03 am

As of the end of October klm will start a new service to Poznan Poland. This will be its 5th destination in Poland. The flight will be operated by Cityhopper using the E175.
Source luchtvaartnieuws
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Flanker7
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Re: KLM new route to Poznan

Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:32 pm

Flanker7 wrote:
As of the end of October klm will start a new service to Poznan Poland. This will be its 5th destination in Poland. The flight will be operated by Cityhopper using the E175. Time's are mentioned yet but it will be daily.
Source luchtvaartnieuws
Flying blue only if possible
 
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Aquila3
Posts: 567
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Re: KLM new route to Poznan

Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:11 pm

Flanker7 wrote:
As of the end of October klm will start a new service to Poznan Poland. This will be its 5th destination in Poland. The flight will be operated by Cityhopper using the E175.
Source luchtvaartnieuws

Sounds good, having an alternative to Lufty.
Last time I decided to drive, but I may try it. Connecting in FRA or AMS does not change much the trip time.
chi vola vale chi vale vola chi non vola è un vile
 
factsonly
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Re: KLM new route to Poznan

Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:14 pm

Schedule:

- AMS 14:40 - POZ 16:20 KL1273 E75 daily
- POZ 16:50 - AMS 18:35 KL1274 E75 daily

So KLM is not afraid to compete with Wizzair's 3x weekly POZ-EIN A320 for point-to-point traffic.
While KL must be confident of gaining European and long-haul connections, which Wizzair, Ryanair and LOT are not able to offer from POZ.

So Lufthansa and SAS may be the main competitors.

https://www.airport-poznan.com.pl/en/fl ... /timetable
 
filipair
Posts: 163
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Re: KLM new route to Poznan

Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:48 pm

It's interesting to a see a new legacy route in Corona times. Does this speak to the relative strength KLM might be seeing in the Poland market?

Just a year ago, AMS was absolutely fully and places like Poznań had no chance at a direct flight.
 
Blerg
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Re: KLM new route to Poznan

Thu Aug 13, 2020 5:10 pm

With a 18.35 arrival into AMS, there can't be many opportunities for connections to the US? What market are they after? The UK and Western Europe?
 
fpetrutiu
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Re: KLM new route to Poznan

Thu Aug 13, 2020 5:41 pm

Flanker7 wrote:
As of the end of October klm will start a new service to Poznan Poland. This will be its 5th destination in Poland. The flight will be operated by Cityhopper using the E175.
Source luchtvaartnieuws


Excellent news for me at least! Being a Delta MM and having a wife from Poznan this will be the first presence of SkyTeam in that airport (outside of a shortlived CSA flight). I am really happy about this news.
Florin
Orlando, FL
 
hooverman
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Re: KLM new route to Poznan

Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:40 pm

Blerg wrote:
With a 18.35 arrival into AMS, there can't be many opportunities for connections to the US? What market are they after? The UK and Western Europe?


There are a lot of Polish people working in the Netherlands so maybe it’s not for connections but for point to point.
 
NLDru
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Re: KLM new route to Poznan

Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:39 pm

hooverman wrote:
Blerg wrote:
With a 18.35 arrival into AMS, there can't be many opportunities for connections to the US? What market are they after? The UK and Western Europe?


There are a lot of Polish people working in the Netherlands so maybe it’s not for connections but for point to point.


You're right. I have many Polish friends of mine who live and work in Amsterdam.

However, most of my Polish friends fly from Eindhoven to Poland. Flying from Eindhoven costs about 50 euros, flying from Schiphol on average about 150 euros. A train ticket from Amsterdam to Eindhoven costs 20 euros. An hour longer on the road, so flying from Eindhoven has its advantages.
 
Kilopond
Posts: 561
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Re: KLM new route to Poznan

Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:48 pm

factsonly wrote:
Schedule:

- AMS 14:40 - POZ 16:20 KL1273 E75 daily
- POZ 16:50 - AMS 18:35 KL1274 E75 daily

So KLM is not afraid to compete with Wizzair's 3x weekly POZ-EIN A320 for point-to-point traffic.[...]


This lousy schedule is definitely going to fail! POZ is not a remote island but a place well-connected to both WAW and BER by road and rail. In order to compete with the uncountable travel options, KLM would have to offer at least 12 weekly rotations (like 6 morning X7 and 6 evening X6).
 
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oxonrow
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Re: KLM new route to Poznan

Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:59 pm

Aquila3 wrote:
Flanker7 wrote:
As of the end of October klm will start a new service to Poznan Poland. This will be its 5th destination in Poland. The flight will be operated by Cityhopper using the E175.
Source luchtvaartnieuws

Sounds good, having an alternative to Lufty.
Last time I decided to drive, but I may try it. Connecting in FRA or AMS does not change much the trip time.


And KLM actually has service, especially on long-haul... not the barebones of Luftwaffe.
 
winter
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:01 am

Re: KLM new route to Poznan

Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:48 am

Kilopond wrote:
factsonly wrote:
Schedule:

- AMS 14:40 - POZ 16:20 KL1273 E75 daily
- POZ 16:50 - AMS 18:35 KL1274 E75 daily

So KLM is not afraid to compete with Wizzair's 3x weekly POZ-EIN A320 for point-to-point traffic.[...]


This lousy schedule is definitely going to fail! POZ is not a remote island but a place well-connected to both WAW and BER by road and rail. In order to compete with the uncountable travel options, KLM would have to offer at least 12 weekly rotations (like 6 morning X7 and 6 evening X6).


Slow your roll. KLM started with the very same scheduled to KRK, GDN and WRO, and season by season grew each to 2-3 daily flights giving access to their entire network.
 
deltairlines
Posts: 7096
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 4:47 am

Re: KLM new route to Poznan

Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:00 am

oxonrow wrote:
Aquila3 wrote:
Flanker7 wrote:
As of the end of October klm will start a new service to Poznan Poland. This will be its 5th destination in Poland. The flight will be operated by Cityhopper using the E175.
Source luchtvaartnieuws

Sounds good, having an alternative to Lufty.
Last time I decided to drive, but I may try it. Connecting in FRA or AMS does not change much the trip time.


And KLM actually has service, especially on long-haul... not the barebones of Luftwaffe.


From trip reports I've seen, I'd rather have Lufthansa on long haul than KLM. That being said, I don't fly coach long-haul so have only compared Business Class products.
 
factsonly
Posts: 2977
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Re: KLM new route to Poznan

Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:03 am

filipair wrote:
It's interesting to a see a new legacy route in Corona times. Does this speak to the relative strength KLM might be seeing in the Poland market?

AMS was absolutely full and places like Poznań had no chance at a direct flight.


It is a reflection of the slot restrictions at AMS in recent years.

AMS is limited to 500.000 annual air transport movements, as a result KLM was unable to launch new routes unless it cut frequencies elsewhere in its network.
The impact of COVID is such that slots are now available and KLM is launching new routes using slots it is no longer using for other destinations.

- AMS - Cork - opened on August 3rd
- AMS - Southampton - opens August 31st
- AMS - Poznan - opens October 25th

You see other airlines launch/increase AMS service in these COVID times as well, indicating that the limit on air transport movements may have resulted in pent-up demand over recent years.
These carriers will be using slots of airlines that will not be returning to AMS, such as FlyBe which had 16.000 slots at AMS:

- Minsk - AMS - Operated by Belavia increased from 7x weekly to 14x weekly
- Vilnius - AMS - Operated by Air Baltic increased from 7x weekly to 14x weekly on August 10th (could be temporary while AMS - RIX is closed).
- Sofia - AMS - Operated by Bulgaria Air increased from 7x weekly to 9x weekly
- Bucharest - AMS - Operated by Blue Air - new route 7x weekly will launch on September 4th.
- KUL - AMS - Malaysian Airlines opened 2x weekly A330 Cargo service
- MIA - AMS - TAMPA Cargo Airlines opened 5x weekly A330 Cargo service
- RUH - AMS - SAUDIA B789 pax service opened normally in April (as Cargo only), was announced prior to COVID.

While several airlines have commenced COVID cargo services, such as:
- LATAM Brazil - Brazil - AMS routes daily on B77W / A359 cargo service.
- Xiamen Air - XMN - AMS increased from 3x weekly pax to daily B789 cargo service.

How this will work out long run in COVID times, is anyone's guess.
 
Blerg
Posts: 4150
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Re: KLM new route to Poznan

Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:19 am

deltairlines wrote:
oxonrow wrote:
Aquila3 wrote:
Sounds good, having an alternative to Lufty.
Last time I decided to drive, but I may try it. Connecting in FRA or AMS does not change much the trip time.


And KLM actually has service, especially on long-haul... not the barebones of Luftwaffe.


From trip reports I've seen, I'd rather have Lufthansa on long haul than KLM. That being said, I don't fly coach long-haul so have only compared Business Class products.


I think economy class is the exact opposite, KL offers a much superior product to LH. Lufthansa has cutback a lot on its onboard product, when they refurbished their planes they reduced seatpitch from 32 to 31 inches. IFE is a bit out of date as is the list of films and tv shows they offer. Onboard meals have also been downgraded quite a bit in terms of quality. For example, UA offers an incomparably better product than LH does, comparing economy classes, of course.
 
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Aquila3
Posts: 567
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:18 pm

Re: KLM new route to Poznan

Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:36 am

Kilopond wrote:

This lousy schedule is definitely going to fail! POZ is not a remote island but a place well-connected to both WAW and BER by road and rail. In order to compete with the uncountable travel options, KLM would have to offer at least 12 weekly rotations (like 6 morning X7 and 6 evening X6).

Well, by road I would say east-west (i.e. BER-WAW) only. I tried to come from South, through Czech Repubblic, and it takes a life. A lot of small hilly roads. Long but feasible in summer, I think not so much in winter. I definitely look forward for another full-service carrier as alternative to Lufty.
chi vola vale chi vale vola chi non vola è un vile
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5782
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Re: KLM new route to Poznan

Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:18 am

Kilopond wrote:
factsonly wrote:
Schedule:

- AMS 14:40 - POZ 16:20 KL1273 E75 daily
- POZ 16:50 - AMS 18:35 KL1274 E75 daily

So KLM is not afraid to compete with Wizzair's 3x weekly POZ-EIN A320 for point-to-point traffic.[...]


This lousy schedule is definitely going to fail! POZ is not a remote island but a place well-connected to both WAW and BER by road and rail. In order to compete with the uncountable travel options, KLM would have to offer at least 12 weekly rotations (like 6 morning X7 and 6 evening X6).


It seems that legacy carriers are looking more on O&D routes given that long-haul connections/business are killed for the time being. Another example is Luxair which this summer launched a bunch of new places like VLC or INN.

It makes sense. KLM does not need anymore a million daily flights to London, Frankfurt or Barcelona to connect to a non-existant long-haul network. And this will probably be the case over the next few years (fewer business travellers, etc.). Those unused slots/planes can be used to try new routes with a major VFR component. If long-haul catches up again, they can increase frequencies and modify schedules to fit it to the broader network.
 
Flanker7
Topic Author
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Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:38 pm

Re: KLM new route to Poznan

Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:46 am

It also connects fairly well with a number of South East Asia departures.
Flying blue only if possible
 
LJ
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Re: KLM new route to Poznan

Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:12 am

Flanker7 wrote:
It also connects fairly well with a number of South East Asia departures.


And usually the late European bank. Though not ideal from a business perspective it's also not bad for those Dutchmen wanting to do a business trip to Poznan and for tourists ex AMS it isn't bad either.

winter wrote:
Slow your roll. KLM started with the very same scheduled to KRK, GDN and WRO, and season by season grew each to 2-3 daily flights giving access to their entire network.


Indeed, I would guess that KLM knows what it does for these types of flights as they do it indeed almost every time when they have a 1 daily only.

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