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midway7
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Re: Any possibility of WN announcing new nonstop routes out of DAL in the upcoming 8/13/2020 schedule extension?

Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:54 pm

The return of DAL - PDX would be nice. However, I have to agree with many of the responses. I do not see any real growth or reinstatements for some time.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Any possibility of WN announcing new nonstop routes out of DAL in the upcoming 8/13/2020 schedule extension?

Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:56 pm

Ishrion wrote:

So what do you consider Alaska’s recent additions of LAX-LIH/KOA/EUG/MFR/RDM/FAT/BOI/MSO/BZM/FLL/RSW, SAN-MSO/FLL/SBA/CUN and JetBlue’s 30-route expansion during the worst downturn in aviation history?

Additionally, there’s United’s new ORD-TLV and the resumption of ORD-HKG next month. Also, United just added five routes over the weekend.

In late May, Southwest added 11 routes set to launch at the end of this year. American plans to launch SEA-PVG, JFK-ATH/TLV next year.

Of course, these expansion plans can change, but airlines obviously aren’t completely holding off plans to add new routes.


Re: AS/B6, they're throwing mess at the wall and seeing what sticks. We'll see what does. WN is much more methodical these days but the OP has a track record of constantly spouting WN expansion ideas that have a limited chance of coming to fruition. Especially these days. If ever.
Next up: STL DEN PSP DEN STL
 
jamie22
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Re: Any possibility of WN announcing new nonstop routes out of DAL in the upcoming 8/13/2020 schedule extension?

Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:30 pm

MrPeanut wrote:
Considering the amount of cuts already announced for September, it’s highly unlikely.

https://crankyflier.com/2020/08/10/sout ... ins-quiet/


Yeah, that's true. Sad but true.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: Any possibility of WN announcing new nonstop routes out of DAL in the upcoming 8/13/2020 schedule extension?

Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:01 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
Ishrion wrote:

So what do you consider Alaska’s recent additions of LAX-LIH/KOA/EUG/MFR/RDM/FAT/BOI/MSO/BZM/FLL/RSW, SAN-MSO/FLL/SBA/CUN and JetBlue’s 30-route expansion during the worst downturn in aviation history?

Additionally, there’s United’s new ORD-TLV and the resumption of ORD-HKG next month. Also, United just added five routes over the weekend.

In late May, Southwest added 11 routes set to launch at the end of this year. American plans to launch SEA-PVG, JFK-ATH/TLV next year.

Of course, these expansion plans can change, but airlines obviously aren’t completely holding off plans to add new routes.


Re: AS/B6, they're throwing mess at the wall and seeing what sticks. We'll see what does. WN is much more methodical these days but the OP has a track record of constantly spouting WN expansion ideas that have a limited chance of coming to fruition. Especially these days. If ever.


And you keep on responding to them. Let the OP say what he wants. No need to judge. Answer or don't. These retort responses are the annoying ones. Including mine. Keep 'em comin' OP! I hope whoever you know in DAL working for Southwest can get back flying!
 
jplatts
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Re: Any possibility of WN announcing new nonstop routes out of DAL in the upcoming 8/13/2020 schedule extension?

Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:21 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
Re: AS/B6, they're throwing mess at the wall and seeing what sticks. We'll see what does. WN is much more methodical these days but the OP has a track record of constantly spouting WN expansion ideas that have a limited chance of coming to fruition. Especially these days. If ever.


There had been some new nonstop routes that had been added by WN out of DAL in the last 4 years such as DAL-BOI/CLE/JAX/SDF/MSP/ONT/RNO/TUS/PBI, but WN dropped DAL-BOI/JAX/RNO/TUS/PBI nonstop service prior to the COVID-19 pandemic and temporarily suspended DAL-CLE/SDF/MSP/ONT nonstop service as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic.

The circumstances have also changed at DAL with WN now having room to add additional nonstop routes out of DAL with the cuts that WN has made on existing service out of DAL in the last 5 months, whereas WN was maxed out at DAL prior to the COVID-19 pandemic.
 
RL757PVD
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Re: Any possibility of WN announcing new nonstop routes out of DAL in the upcoming 8/13/2020 schedule extension?

Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:34 pm

With demand being what it is, I expect airlines to double down on Florida as a last hope to generate or recover some cash after losing out on the summer peak. I expect we will see more NE-Florida flying with some possibilities and new routes like MHT/ALB/ROC-RSW and daily PVD-PBI for more than the few peak weeks.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Wed Aug 12, 2020 5:55 am

Well on a positive note heard today that WN is getting 2 more gates at HNL. Gates G5 and G6 these both have jetways. Bringing the Total WN Gates to 6.
4 hard stand and 2 jetways.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
DaCubbyBearBar
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:35 am

wnflyguy wrote:
Well on a positive note heard today that WN is getting 2 more gates at HNL. Gates G5 and G6 these both have jetways. Bringing the Total WN Gates to 6.
4 hard stand and 2 jetways.

Flyguy

WRONG!!!! ABSOLUTELY NO WAY UA GIVES UP THOSE GATES!!!
Not sure who your “source” is but UA is the primary tenant on those gates, and not giving them up to WN.
I am me and no one else...so my opinions are mine
 
jplatts
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Re: Any possibility of WN announcing new nonstop routes out of DAL in the upcoming 8/13/2020 schedule extension?

Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:15 pm

midway7 wrote:
However, I have to agree with many of the responses. I do not see any real growth or reinstatements for some time.


I can understand no real growth or reinstatements for some time, but WN would not want to lose access to the 18 gates that it currently uses at DAL with DAL being limited to 20 gates.

WN would also have advantages over new entrants on adds such as DAL-BUF/CVG/BDL/ORF with (a) WN already having brand recognition in the BUF, CVG, DAL, BDL, and ORF markets, (b) WN already having a FF base in the DAL market, and (c) WN being able to offer connections to other Texas destinations at DAL.

One of the reasons why I was asking whether there was a possibility of WN announcing new nonstop routes out of DAL in tomorrow's schedule extension was that WN would not want to lose access to the 18 gates currently in use by WN at DAL.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Any possibility of WN announcing new nonstop routes out of DAL in the upcoming 8/13/2020 schedule extension?

Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:52 pm

WN isn't going to lose DAL gates. They lease 16 and sub-lease 2. They don't need to partake in irrational expansion to preserve their access.
Next up: STL DEN PSP DEN STL
 
KarlB737
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Re: Any possibility of WN announcing new nonstop routes out of DAL in the upcoming 8/13/2020 schedule extension?

Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:57 pm

jplatts wrote:
Is WN likely to announce any new nonstop routes out of DAL in Thursday's schedule extension?


Why add "new nonstop routes" to your suggested cities only to have them fly practically empty and lose even more money.
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:17 pm

DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Well on a positive note heard today that WN is getting 2 more gates at HNL. Gates G5 and G6 these both have jetways. Bringing the Total WN Gates to 6.
4 hard stand and 2 jetways.

Flyguy

WRONG!!!! ABSOLUTELY NO WAY UA GIVES UP THOSE GATES!!!
Not sure who your “source” is but UA is the primary tenant on those gates, and not giving them up to WN.


This Covid environment completely changed the Landscape of HNL. Spring 2021 the new Hawaiian Terminal opens moving HA A330/321 flights to the new terminal. This will allow the airport the flexibility to move airlines around.
From what I have heard WN's future proposal estimates almost a double increase of daily flights in summer 2021.
WN needs close gates for inter island and mainland connections.
Someone posted on Instagram @Southwesthnl showing the employees trying on the new gates.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
737max8
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Re: Any possibility of WN announcing new nonstop routes out of DAL in the upcoming 8/13/2020 schedule extension?

Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:26 pm

KarlB737 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
Is WN likely to announce any new nonstop routes out of DAL in Thursday's schedule extension?


Why add "new nonstop routes" to your suggested cities only to have them fly practically empty and lose even more money.


Flights from DAL are certainly not flying practically empty...

Although I wonder how much popcorn Network Planning consumes reading these threads.
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
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MIflyer12
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Re: Any possibility of WN announcing new nonstop routes out of DAL in the upcoming 8/13/2020 schedule extension?

Wed Aug 12, 2020 3:03 pm

737max8 wrote:
KarlB737 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
Is WN likely to announce any new nonstop routes out of DAL in Thursday's schedule extension?


Why add "new nonstop routes" to your suggested cities only to have them fly practically empty and lose even more money.


Flights from DAL are certainly not flying practically empty...

Although I wonder how much popcorn Network Planning consumes reading these threads.


With wage susbsidy from the Payroll Support Program, variable cost breakeven is probably 25-30% of last year's revenues - and I mean revenues, not passenger counts. With the end of PSP that probably goes up to 60%+. Do you have any data that confirm WN is getting 60% of last year's revenues out of DAL on average?
 
ryanrap1
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Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:56 pm

Good Morning All,

According to the Southwest schedule on their website, it states they will open booking through April on today - August 13th.
However; the website still does not reflect this. Anyone have any insight or when it will be uploaded?
 
dbo861
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:17 pm

Normally it gets released around 8am Central time. It’s on there now.
 
joeblow10
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:22 pm

HDN-DEN is loaded. 3x daily is what I’m seeing - wowza, that’s a lot of capacity
 
RL757PVD
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:47 pm

Looks like PVD-RSW is back to daily come February after being sat only for the past few years, its 2x on Sat

There will be a total of 11x Florida flights on saturdays, with a weekly average of 15 daily, which is on par or up from what was scheduled for this past Feb/March.

I'm actually surprised they did not touch BOS-Florida considering business demand will still likely be soft this winter.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
DLASFlyer
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:48 pm

joeblow10 wrote:
HDN-DEN is loaded. 3x daily is what I’m seeing - wowza, that’s a lot of capacity


Delta just dropped HDN entirely.

Come on DEN-JAC! Frontier recently left Jackson, leaving no LCCs.
 
krod031
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:01 pm

joeblow10 wrote:
HDN-DEN is loaded. 3x daily is what I’m seeing - wowza, that’s a lot of capacity


I even see Sat-Sun DAL-HDN as well.
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:02 pm

LGB gets both daily LAS and DEN.
Matching up arrival and departure times a lot of inconsistent turn times. I'm gonna guess since the LGB Slot lottery awards come out on August 28. So WN will fill in the gaps On that Friday. Right now it looks like somewhere around 25 to 28 daily flights.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
Ishrion
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Re: Any possibility of WN announcing new nonstop routes out of DAL in the upcoming 8/13/2020 schedule extension?

Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:18 pm

There you go! Southwest is adding Dallas Love Field to Hayden/Steamboat Springs this winter. Operating Saturday/Sundays only.

https://www.swamedia.com/releases/relea ... s-colorado
 
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SteveXC500
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:20 pm

Only adds for MSP are seasonal Florida, MCO, TPA, RSW, FLL. FLL/MCO start in Jan and the others 3/13. I'll dig further to the overall flight changes.
 
Ishrion
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:22 pm

Southwest press release for DAL/DEN-HDN: https://www.swamedia.com/releases/relea ... s-colorado
 
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southwest1675
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:32 pm

DLASFlyer wrote:
joeblow10 wrote:
HDN-DEN is loaded. 3x daily is what I’m seeing - wowza, that’s a lot of capacity


Delta just dropped HDN entirely.

Come on DEN-JAC! Frontier recently left Jackson, leaving no LCCs.


WN served JAC very briefly in 85-86 I believe.
Herb Kelleher 1931-2019
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:41 pm

southwest1675 wrote:
DLASFlyer wrote:
joeblow10 wrote:
HDN-DEN is loaded. 3x daily is what I’m seeing - wowza, that’s a lot of capacity


Delta just dropped HDN entirely.

Come on DEN-JAC! Frontier recently left Jackson, leaving no LCCs.


WN served JAC very briefly in 85-86 I believe.

(Edited ) WN did have seasonal weekend Ski package charter Service during that time period to Durango and Jackson Hole.

Flyguy
Last edited by wnflyguy on Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
737max8
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:47 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Southwest press release for DAL/DEN-HDN: https://www.swamedia.com/releases/relea ... s-colorado


Thanks, just booked the inaugural DEN-HDN for 3,000 points.
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
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SteveXC500
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:59 pm

MSP will see 21 flights/daily vs. 24 the prior year, same timeframe. Notable differences are OAK still cut and no ATL flying that was there early in 2019. As previously posted, Florida flying comes back on the Saturday-onyl basis.

I'd say not too bad considering the still unknown demand for March and what COVID looks like. I did book my Spring Break trip though.
 
jplatts
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Re: Any possibility of WN announcing new nonstop routes out of DAL in the upcoming 8/13/2020 schedule extension?

Thu Aug 13, 2020 5:06 pm

Here is the current breakdown of WN nonstop service out of DAL on 4/9/2021 as of today's schedule extension:
5x ABQ, 4x AMA, 7x ATL, 10x AUS, 2x BHM, 6x BNA, 1x BUR, 5x BWI, 1x CHS, 1x CLT, 1x CMH, 5x DCA, 10x DEN, 2x ECP, 4x ELP, 4x FLL, 16x HOU, 1x IND, 6x LAS, 5x LAX, 5x LBB, 4x LGA, 2x LIT, 5x MAF, 6x MCI, 6x MCO, 9x MDW, 2x MEM, 1x MKE, 1x MSP, 7x MSY, 2x OAK, 1x OMA, 1x ONT, 6x PHX, 1x PIT, 1x RDU, 1x RNO, 1x RSW, 5x SAN, 10x SAT, 1x SDF, 3x SJC, 1x SLC, 1x SMF, 1x SNA, 6x STL, 4x TPA, 3x TUL

193 daily departures out of DAL on 4/9/2021
DAL-SNA nonstop service scheduled to resume on 10/8/2020
DAL-RNO resuming and increased to daily nonstop service starting on 1/5/2021
 
Ishrion
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 5:52 pm

Southwest adds San Diego to Norfolk from Jan 5, daily except Saturdays.

https://twitter.com/NorfolkAirport/stat ... 6705850372
 
MrPeanut
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Re: Any possibility of WN announcing new nonstop routes out of DAL in the upcoming 8/13/2020 schedule extension?

Thu Aug 13, 2020 5:56 pm

The new addition is interesting. Due to the international restrictions, airlines are starting to focus on more US tourist destinations. UA announced all those new routes to Florida for this winter, and now WN going in the opposite direction as UA and focusing on the ski destinations. Florida seems like it was already over saturated with flights even before UA decided to add those flights. Maybe focusing on the ski destinations is a better move.
 
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tjwgrr
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:04 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Southwest adds San Diego to Norfolk from Jan 5, daily except Saturdays.

https://twitter.com/NorfolkAirport/stat ... 6705850372


Service between two cities each with large US Navy bases... :thumbsup:
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
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tjwgrr
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:04 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Southwest adds San Diego to Norfolk from Jan 5, daily except Saturdays.

https://twitter.com/NorfolkAirport/stat ... 6705850372


Service between two cities each with large US Navy bases... :thumbsup:
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
jplatts
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:12 pm

In addition to weekend-only DAL-HDN nonstop service that starts on 12/19/2020, WN will also be resuming DAL-RNO nonstop service on 1/5/2021, with DAL-RNO increased to daily nonstop service.
 
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SANFan
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:14 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Southwest adds San Diego to Norfolk from Jan 5, daily except Saturdays.

https://twitter.com/NorfolkAirport/stat ... 6705850372

Yes!

This market was 'tested' last year, weekly service for about 2 months in the summer, and originally appeared on this year's June sked release (still 1x weekly.) It didn't operate this year of course.

So now it's back, and seriously this time! There's plenty of traffic between SAN and ORF, and I'd bet lots of belly cargo as well, but it just depends on how many of the pax are traveling on Government travel as to whether the yields will be healthy enough to keep it going!

This is very exciting and I hope the route does well for WN! Good work WN!

bb
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:16 pm

A lot of chatter about BZN getting WN service in the spring of 2021?
I would say yes if Covid wasn't happening.
I know BZN Has 4 new gates set to open in the spring of 2021.

Anything is possible I guess since they are chasing leisure traffic.
I don't think anyone saw 3 daily DEN and 1 weekend DAL going to HDN seasonally.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:45 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
A lot of chatter about BZN getting WN service in the spring of 2021?
I would say yes if Covid wasn't happening.
I know BZN Has 4 new gates set to open in the spring of 2021.

Anything is possible I guess since they are chasing leisure traffic.
I don't think anyone saw 3 daily DEN and 1 weekend DAL going to HDN seasonally.

Flyguy


HDN sets a *very* interesting precedent for WN. EYW may have failed due to the highly seasonal nature of its market - could it come back as a seasonal station, especially now that their runway is a bit longer? Palm Springs and the Coachella valley are booming - could a seasonal PSP operation shuttling WN FFers to events like Coachella and Stagecoach do well in spite of WN's longstanding marketing campaign to use nearby ONT? ACK, ANC, BTV, BZN, EGE, FAI, HHH, JAC, JNU, MTJ, MVY, MYR, SAV, STT and VPS are other wildly popular domestic destinations that could make sense for WN, if only seasonally. ASE might be able to handle the 73Gs after its upcoming expansion too. Maybe WN could even consider some kind of service to Canada's popular resort/park/leisure markets such as YVR and YYC too? Of course, WN wouldn't add service to Canada until Americans can cross the border freely again - but I wonder about the possibility of Canadian service now that WN is much more open to seasonal stations than before...
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
Flflyer83
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:51 pm

SurfandSnow wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
A lot of chatter about BZN getting WN service in the spring of 2021?
I would say yes if Covid wasn't happening.
I know BZN Has 4 new gates set to open in the spring of 2021.

Anything is possible I guess since they are chasing leisure traffic.
I don't think anyone saw 3 daily DEN and 1 weekend DAL going to HDN seasonally.

Flyguy


HDN sets a *very* interesting precedent for WN. EYW may have failed due to the highly seasonal nature of its market - could it come back as a seasonal station, especially now that their runway is a bit longer? Palm Springs and the Coachella valley are booming - could a seasonal PSP operation shuttling WN FFers to events like Coachella and Stagecoach do well in spite of WN's longstanding marketing campaign to use nearby ONT? ACK, ANC, BTV, BZN, EGE, FAI, HHH, JAC, JNU, MTJ, MVY, MYR, SAV, STT and VPS are other wildly popular domestic destinations that could make sense for WN, if only seasonally. ASE might be able to handle the 73Gs after its upcoming expansion too. Maybe WN could even consider some kind of service to Canada's popular resort/park/leisure markets such as YVR and YYC too? Of course, WN wouldn't add service to Canada until Americans can cross the border freely again - but I wonder about the possibility of Canadian service now that WN is much more open to seasonal stations than before...


Limited PSP service coming post-COVID recovery with service to PHX, DEN, OAK, DAL.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:58 pm

tjwgrr wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Southwest adds San Diego to Norfolk from Jan 5, daily except Saturdays.

https://twitter.com/NorfolkAirport/stat ... 6705850372


Service between two cities each with large US Navy bases... :thumbsup:

GSA Federal Acquisition Service
City Pairs Program

Award List
Origin: SAN Destination: ORF
SAN DIEGO NORFOLK Southwest N 290.00 250.00 0.00 10/01/2020 09/30/2021

Looks like WN is the GSA winner.

It's AA on LAX/BUR/ONT-ORF, and DL on LGB-ORF at a very significant premium.
 
jplatts
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:22 pm

SurfandSnow wrote:
Maybe WN could even consider some kind of service to Canada's popular resort/park/leisure markets such as YVR and YYC too? Of course, WN wouldn't add service to Canada until Americans can cross the border freely again - but I wonder about the possibility of Canadian service now that WN is much more open to seasonal stations than before...


I agree that WN adding service to Canada is a possibility as WN had previously stated that it was considering adding service to Canada.

I also agree that WN adding service to YYC is a possibility with YYC being further from the U.S.-Canada border than some other major Canadian cities such as Vancouver, Winnipeg, Toronto, Ottawa, and Montreal.

WN adding BWI-YUL nonstop service is also a possibility with
(a) AC and UA currently being the only airlines that serve the DCA/IAD/BWI market nonstop from YUL,
(b) WN having significant connecting feed in addition to O&D traffic to support BWI-YUL nonstop service, and
(c) YUL being far enough from any U.S. airport that is currently served by WN with ALB, which is the closest WN station to Montreal, being approximately 215 miles (driving distance) from Downtown Montreal.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:44 pm

jplatts wrote:
SurfandSnow wrote:
Maybe WN could even consider some kind of service to Canada's popular resort/park/leisure markets such as YVR and YYC too? Of course, WN wouldn't add service to Canada until Americans can cross the border freely again - but I wonder about the possibility of Canadian service now that WN is much more open to seasonal stations than before...


I agree that WN adding service to Canada is a possibility as WN had previously stated that it was considering adding service to Canada.


Well, of course it could - the Open Skies agreement with no airport restrictions has been in place for two decades. YVR and YYC aren't quite leisure markets of the scale of CUN and SJD, however (see U.S. DOT International Air Passenger and Freight Statistics). It's also true that AC/WS provide much more 'other nation' competition for U.S. carriers than is true from CUN and SJD (see those same DOT reports). Then there's the UA/AC agreement, and meaningful Trans-Border services by AA and DL... Canada would not be an easy market for WN.

As for the appeal of connections via BWI... why? There are non-stops from plenty of major Canadian airports to popular-with-Canadians U.S. destinations, including YUL-MCO/TPA/RSW/PBI/FLL/MIA/PHX/LAS/LAX/SFO on AC/UA alone.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:58 pm

jplatts wrote:
I agree that WN adding service to Canada is a possibility as WN had previously stated that it was considering adding service to Canada.

I also agree that WN adding service to YYC is a possibility with YYC being further from the U.S.-Canada border than some other major Canadian cities such as Vancouver, Winnipeg, Toronto, Ottawa, and Montreal.

WN adding BWI-YUL nonstop service is also a possibility with
(a) AC and UA currently being the only airlines that serve the DCA/IAD/BWI market nonstop from YUL,
(b) WN having significant connecting feed in addition to O&D traffic to support BWI-YUL nonstop service, and
(c) YUL being far enough from any U.S. airport that is currently served by WN with ALB, which is the closest WN station to Montreal, being approximately 215 miles (driving distance) from Downtown Montreal.


WN has had every opportunity to add Canadian cities to their network. Unless Canada dramatically lowers their taxes and fees, I doubt we'll see much action there from WN. How many ULCC's were operating to Canada pre-COVID? F9 had a few but with majority of Canada-US traffic being Canadian point of sale, the ULCC's have heretofore opted for US border airports to attract Canadian passengers. But with the borders still closed for the most part, even those are taking a hit. Plus the UA/AC and DL/WS codeshares are taking a big bite out of the discretionary traffic not covered by the Canadian leisure carriers. Not much left to feed on.
Next up: STL DEN PSP DEN STL
 
jplatts
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:29 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
WN has had every opportunity to add Canadian cities to their network. Unless Canada dramatically lowers their taxes and fees, I doubt we'll see much action there from WN. How many ULCC's were operating to Canada pre-COVID? F9 had a few but with majority of Canada-US traffic being Canadian point of sale, the ULCC's have heretofore opted for US border airports to attract Canadian passengers. But with the borders still closed for the most part, even those are taking a hit. Plus the UA/AC and DL/WS codeshares are taking a big bite out of the discretionary traffic not covered by the Canadian leisure carriers. Not much left to feed on.


There was an article titled "Southwest Airlines targets Canadian expansion" on The Globe and Mail's website back on September 9, 2014 which mentioned the possibility of WN adding service to Canadian airports, which can be found at https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/international-business/us-business/southwest-airlines-targets-canadian-expansion/article20493147/.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:37 pm

OK, 6 years ago in a totally different world. WN talks a good game when telling cities they "aren't serving them...YET!!" and some people take it at face value. All corporate speak for "Oh we've looked, but NO" without the rudeness.
Next up: STL DEN PSP DEN STL
 
jplatts
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:40 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
As for the appeal of connections via BWI... why? There are non-stops from plenty of major Canadian airports to popular-with-Canadians U.S. destinations, including YUL-MCO/TPA/RSW/PBI/FLL/MIA/PHX/LAS/LAX/SFO on AC/UA alone.


If WN adds BWI-YUL nonstop service, there would be connecting opportunities available at BWI on WN from YUL to some U.S. destinations that currently don't have any nonstop service to YUL such as ABQ, AUS, BHM, CVG, CLE, CMH, GRR, GSP, IND, JAX, MCI, SDF, MEM, MKE, ORF, OKC, STL, SLC, and SAT.
 
futuresdpdcop
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:06 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Southwest adds San Diego to Norfolk from Jan 5, daily except Saturdays.

https://twitter.com/NorfolkAirport/stat ... 6705850372

Just booked this flight for Feb 2021.
 
evank516
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:13 am

SurfandSnow wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
A lot of chatter about BZN getting WN service in the spring of 2021?
I would say yes if Covid wasn't happening.
I know BZN Has 4 new gates set to open in the spring of 2021.

Anything is possible I guess since they are chasing leisure traffic.
I don't think anyone saw 3 daily DEN and 1 weekend DAL going to HDN seasonally.

Flyguy


HDN sets a *very* interesting precedent for WN. EYW may have failed due to the highly seasonal nature of its market - could it come back as a seasonal station, especially now that their runway is a bit longer? Palm Springs and the Coachella valley are booming - could a seasonal PSP operation shuttling WN FFers to events like Coachella and Stagecoach do well in spite of WN's longstanding marketing campaign to use nearby ONT? ACK, ANC, BTV, BZN, EGE, FAI, HHH, JAC, JNU, MTJ, MVY, MYR, SAV, STT and VPS are other wildly popular domestic destinations that could make sense for WN, if only seasonally. ASE might be able to handle the 73Gs after its upcoming expansion too. Maybe WN could even consider some kind of service to Canada's popular resort/park/leisure markets such as YVR and YYC too? Of course, WN wouldn't add service to Canada until Americans can cross the border freely again - but I wonder about the possibility of Canadian service now that WN is much more open to seasonal stations than before...


EYW didn't fail because of it's seasonal nature IIRC. It's a year-round destination. It failed due to operational constraints associated with the short runway.
 
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SANFan
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:37 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
tjwgrr wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Southwest adds San Diego to Norfolk

Service between two cities each with large US Navy bases... :thumbsup:

GSA Federal Acquisition Service
City Pairs Program
Award List
Origin: SAN Destination: ORF
SAN DIEGO NORFOLK Southwest N 290.00 250.00 0.00 10/01/2020 09/30/2021

Looks like WN is the GSA winner.

Ah, thanks for this info 'flyer. I hadn't had a chance to look into the GSA numbers yet; that would certainly explain the serious effort in the market by WN. Then I'm expecting the route will do very well and should be with us permanently.

I've been waiting a very long time to see someone tackle this needy market! Nice job WN!

futuresdpdcop wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Southwest adds San Diego to Norfolk

Just booked this flight for Feb 2021.

Hey, please take some family and/or friends along! The more the merrier!!

I think SAN-ORF will do very well passenger traffic-wise, plus I'd think there would be a good amount of belly freight carried in both directions as well.

bb
 
DaCubbyBearBar
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:26 am

jplatts wrote:
SurfandSnow wrote:
Maybe WN could even consider some kind of service to Canada's popular resort/park/leisure markets such as YVR and YYC too? Of course, WN wouldn't add service to Canada until Americans can cross the border freely again - but I wonder about the possibility of Canadian service now that WN is much more open to seasonal stations than before...


I agree that WN adding service to Canada is a possibility as WN had previously stated that it was considering adding service to Canada.

I also agree that WN adding service to YYC is a possibility with YYC being further from the U.S.-Canada border than some other major Canadian cities such as Vancouver, Winnipeg, Toronto, Ottawa, and Montreal.

WN adding BWI-YUL nonstop service is also a possibility with
(a) AC and UA currently being the only airlines that serve the DCA/IAD/BWI market nonstop from YUL,
(b) WN having significant connecting feed in addition to O&D traffic to support BWI-YUL nonstop service, and
(c) YUL being far enough from any U.S. airport that is currently served by WN with ALB, which is the closest WN station to Montreal, being approximately 215 miles (driving distance) from Downtown Montreal.

NOT in 2020-2022....for all this is retrench and NOT expansion mode!! Airlines are just moving routes among dots already on their map. New markets lose money for a while, so you are not getting Canada anytime soon
I am me and no one else...so my opinions are mine
 
OAHU747
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:59 am

wnflyguy wrote:
Well on a positive note heard today that WN is getting 2 more gates at HNL. Gates G5 and G6 these both have jetways. Bringing the Total WN Gates to 6.
4 hard stand and 2 jetways.

Flyguy


Better get a new source, the G6 jetway doesn't bend low enough to accommodate a WN 737.
My posts and opinions are mine only and are not from or representative of Southwest Airlines.

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