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ryanrap1
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Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:56 pm

Good Morning All,

According to the Southwest schedule on their website, it states they will open booking through April on today - August 13th.
However; the website still does not reflect this. Anyone have any insight or when it will be uploaded?
 
dbo861
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:17 pm

Normally it gets released around 8am Central time. It’s on there now.
 
joeblow10
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:22 pm

HDN-DEN is loaded. 3x daily is what I’m seeing - wowza, that’s a lot of capacity
 
RL757PVD
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:47 pm

Looks like PVD-RSW is back to daily come February after being sat only for the past few years, its 2x on Sat

There will be a total of 11x Florida flights on saturdays, with a weekly average of 15 daily, which is on par or up from what was scheduled for this past Feb/March.

I'm actually surprised they did not touch BOS-Florida considering business demand will still likely be soft this winter.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
DLASFlyer
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:48 pm

joeblow10 wrote:
HDN-DEN is loaded. 3x daily is what I’m seeing - wowza, that’s a lot of capacity


Delta just dropped HDN entirely.

Come on DEN-JAC! Frontier recently left Jackson, leaving no LCCs.
 
krod031
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:01 pm

joeblow10 wrote:
HDN-DEN is loaded. 3x daily is what I’m seeing - wowza, that’s a lot of capacity


I even see Sat-Sun DAL-HDN as well.
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:02 pm

LGB gets both daily LAS and DEN.
Matching up arrival and departure times a lot of inconsistent turn times. I'm gonna guess since the LGB Slot lottery awards come out on August 28. So WN will fill in the gaps On that Friday. Right now it looks like somewhere around 25 to 28 daily flights.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
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SteveXC500
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:20 pm

Only adds for MSP are seasonal Florida, MCO, TPA, RSW, FLL. FLL/MCO start in Jan and the others 3/13. I'll dig further to the overall flight changes.
 
Ishrion
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:22 pm

Southwest press release for DAL/DEN-HDN: https://www.swamedia.com/releases/relea ... s-colorado
 
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southwest1675
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:32 pm

DLASFlyer wrote:
joeblow10 wrote:
HDN-DEN is loaded. 3x daily is what I’m seeing - wowza, that’s a lot of capacity


Delta just dropped HDN entirely.

Come on DEN-JAC! Frontier recently left Jackson, leaving no LCCs.


WN served JAC very briefly in 85-86 I believe.
Herb Kelleher 1931-2019
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:41 pm

southwest1675 wrote:
DLASFlyer wrote:
joeblow10 wrote:
HDN-DEN is loaded. 3x daily is what I’m seeing - wowza, that’s a lot of capacity


Delta just dropped HDN entirely.

Come on DEN-JAC! Frontier recently left Jackson, leaving no LCCs.


WN served JAC very briefly in 85-86 I believe.

(Edited ) WN did have seasonal weekend Ski package charter Service during that time period to Durango and Jackson Hole.

Flyguy
Last edited by wnflyguy on Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
737max8
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:47 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Southwest press release for DAL/DEN-HDN: https://www.swamedia.com/releases/relea ... s-colorado


Thanks, just booked the inaugural DEN-HDN for 3,000 points.
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
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SteveXC500
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:59 pm

MSP will see 21 flights/daily vs. 24 the prior year, same timeframe. Notable differences are OAK still cut and no ATL flying that was there early in 2019. As previously posted, Florida flying comes back on the Saturday-onyl basis.

I'd say not too bad considering the still unknown demand for March and what COVID looks like. I did book my Spring Break trip though.
 
Ishrion
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 5:52 pm

Southwest adds San Diego to Norfolk from Jan 5, daily except Saturdays.

https://twitter.com/NorfolkAirport/stat ... 6705850372
 
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tjwgrr
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:04 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Southwest adds San Diego to Norfolk from Jan 5, daily except Saturdays.

https://twitter.com/NorfolkAirport/stat ... 6705850372


Service between two cities each with large US Navy bases... :thumbsup:
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
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tjwgrr
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:04 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Southwest adds San Diego to Norfolk from Jan 5, daily except Saturdays.

https://twitter.com/NorfolkAirport/stat ... 6705850372


Service between two cities each with large US Navy bases... :thumbsup:
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
jplatts
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:12 pm

In addition to weekend-only DAL-HDN nonstop service that starts on 12/19/2020, WN will also be resuming DAL-RNO nonstop service on 1/5/2021, with DAL-RNO increased to daily nonstop service.
 
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SANFan
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:14 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Southwest adds San Diego to Norfolk from Jan 5, daily except Saturdays.

https://twitter.com/NorfolkAirport/stat ... 6705850372

Yes!

This market was 'tested' last year, weekly service for about 2 months in the summer, and originally appeared on this year's June sked release (still 1x weekly.) It didn't operate this year of course.

So now it's back, and seriously this time! There's plenty of traffic between SAN and ORF, and I'd bet lots of belly cargo as well, but it just depends on how many of the pax are traveling on Government travel as to whether the yields will be healthy enough to keep it going!

This is very exciting and I hope the route does well for WN! Good work WN!

bb
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:16 pm

A lot of chatter about BZN getting WN service in the spring of 2021?
I would say yes if Covid wasn't happening.
I know BZN Has 4 new gates set to open in the spring of 2021.

Anything is possible I guess since they are chasing leisure traffic.
I don't think anyone saw 3 daily DEN and 1 weekend DAL going to HDN seasonally.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:45 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
A lot of chatter about BZN getting WN service in the spring of 2021?
I would say yes if Covid wasn't happening.
I know BZN Has 4 new gates set to open in the spring of 2021.

Anything is possible I guess since they are chasing leisure traffic.
I don't think anyone saw 3 daily DEN and 1 weekend DAL going to HDN seasonally.

Flyguy


HDN sets a *very* interesting precedent for WN. EYW may have failed due to the highly seasonal nature of its market - could it come back as a seasonal station, especially now that their runway is a bit longer? Palm Springs and the Coachella valley are booming - could a seasonal PSP operation shuttling WN FFers to events like Coachella and Stagecoach do well in spite of WN's longstanding marketing campaign to use nearby ONT? ACK, ANC, BTV, BZN, EGE, FAI, HHH, JAC, JNU, MTJ, MVY, MYR, SAV, STT and VPS are other wildly popular domestic destinations that could make sense for WN, if only seasonally. ASE might be able to handle the 73Gs after its upcoming expansion too. Maybe WN could even consider some kind of service to Canada's popular resort/park/leisure markets such as YVR and YYC too? Of course, WN wouldn't add service to Canada until Americans can cross the border freely again - but I wonder about the possibility of Canadian service now that WN is much more open to seasonal stations than before...
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
Flflyer83
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:51 pm

SurfandSnow wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
A lot of chatter about BZN getting WN service in the spring of 2021?
I would say yes if Covid wasn't happening.
I know BZN Has 4 new gates set to open in the spring of 2021.

Anything is possible I guess since they are chasing leisure traffic.
I don't think anyone saw 3 daily DEN and 1 weekend DAL going to HDN seasonally.

Flyguy


HDN sets a *very* interesting precedent for WN. EYW may have failed due to the highly seasonal nature of its market - could it come back as a seasonal station, especially now that their runway is a bit longer? Palm Springs and the Coachella valley are booming - could a seasonal PSP operation shuttling WN FFers to events like Coachella and Stagecoach do well in spite of WN's longstanding marketing campaign to use nearby ONT? ACK, ANC, BTV, BZN, EGE, FAI, HHH, JAC, JNU, MTJ, MVY, MYR, SAV, STT and VPS are other wildly popular domestic destinations that could make sense for WN, if only seasonally. ASE might be able to handle the 73Gs after its upcoming expansion too. Maybe WN could even consider some kind of service to Canada's popular resort/park/leisure markets such as YVR and YYC too? Of course, WN wouldn't add service to Canada until Americans can cross the border freely again - but I wonder about the possibility of Canadian service now that WN is much more open to seasonal stations than before...


Limited PSP service coming post-COVID recovery with service to PHX, DEN, OAK, DAL.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:58 pm

tjwgrr wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Southwest adds San Diego to Norfolk from Jan 5, daily except Saturdays.

https://twitter.com/NorfolkAirport/stat ... 6705850372


Service between two cities each with large US Navy bases... :thumbsup:

GSA Federal Acquisition Service
City Pairs Program

Award List
Origin: SAN Destination: ORF
SAN DIEGO NORFOLK Southwest N 290.00 250.00 0.00 10/01/2020 09/30/2021

Looks like WN is the GSA winner.

It's AA on LAX/BUR/ONT-ORF, and DL on LGB-ORF at a very significant premium.
 
jplatts
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:22 pm

SurfandSnow wrote:
Maybe WN could even consider some kind of service to Canada's popular resort/park/leisure markets such as YVR and YYC too? Of course, WN wouldn't add service to Canada until Americans can cross the border freely again - but I wonder about the possibility of Canadian service now that WN is much more open to seasonal stations than before...


I agree that WN adding service to Canada is a possibility as WN had previously stated that it was considering adding service to Canada.

I also agree that WN adding service to YYC is a possibility with YYC being further from the U.S.-Canada border than some other major Canadian cities such as Vancouver, Winnipeg, Toronto, Ottawa, and Montreal.

WN adding BWI-YUL nonstop service is also a possibility with
(a) AC and UA currently being the only airlines that serve the DCA/IAD/BWI market nonstop from YUL,
(b) WN having significant connecting feed in addition to O&D traffic to support BWI-YUL nonstop service, and
(c) YUL being far enough from any U.S. airport that is currently served by WN with ALB, which is the closest WN station to Montreal, being approximately 215 miles (driving distance) from Downtown Montreal.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:44 pm

jplatts wrote:
SurfandSnow wrote:
Maybe WN could even consider some kind of service to Canada's popular resort/park/leisure markets such as YVR and YYC too? Of course, WN wouldn't add service to Canada until Americans can cross the border freely again - but I wonder about the possibility of Canadian service now that WN is much more open to seasonal stations than before...


I agree that WN adding service to Canada is a possibility as WN had previously stated that it was considering adding service to Canada.


Well, of course it could - the Open Skies agreement with no airport restrictions has been in place for two decades. YVR and YYC aren't quite leisure markets of the scale of CUN and SJD, however (see U.S. DOT International Air Passenger and Freight Statistics). It's also true that AC/WS provide much more 'other nation' competition for U.S. carriers than is true from CUN and SJD (see those same DOT reports). Then there's the UA/AC agreement, and meaningful Trans-Border services by AA and DL... Canada would not be an easy market for WN.

As for the appeal of connections via BWI... why? There are non-stops from plenty of major Canadian airports to popular-with-Canadians U.S. destinations, including YUL-MCO/TPA/RSW/PBI/FLL/MIA/PHX/LAS/LAX/SFO on AC/UA alone.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:58 pm

jplatts wrote:
I agree that WN adding service to Canada is a possibility as WN had previously stated that it was considering adding service to Canada.

I also agree that WN adding service to YYC is a possibility with YYC being further from the U.S.-Canada border than some other major Canadian cities such as Vancouver, Winnipeg, Toronto, Ottawa, and Montreal.

WN adding BWI-YUL nonstop service is also a possibility with
(a) AC and UA currently being the only airlines that serve the DCA/IAD/BWI market nonstop from YUL,
(b) WN having significant connecting feed in addition to O&D traffic to support BWI-YUL nonstop service, and
(c) YUL being far enough from any U.S. airport that is currently served by WN with ALB, which is the closest WN station to Montreal, being approximately 215 miles (driving distance) from Downtown Montreal.


WN has had every opportunity to add Canadian cities to their network. Unless Canada dramatically lowers their taxes and fees, I doubt we'll see much action there from WN. How many ULCC's were operating to Canada pre-COVID? F9 had a few but with majority of Canada-US traffic being Canadian point of sale, the ULCC's have heretofore opted for US border airports to attract Canadian passengers. But with the borders still closed for the most part, even those are taking a hit. Plus the UA/AC and DL/WS codeshares are taking a big bite out of the discretionary traffic not covered by the Canadian leisure carriers. Not much left to feed on.
Next up: STL DEN PSP DEN STL
 
jplatts
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:29 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
WN has had every opportunity to add Canadian cities to their network. Unless Canada dramatically lowers their taxes and fees, I doubt we'll see much action there from WN. How many ULCC's were operating to Canada pre-COVID? F9 had a few but with majority of Canada-US traffic being Canadian point of sale, the ULCC's have heretofore opted for US border airports to attract Canadian passengers. But with the borders still closed for the most part, even those are taking a hit. Plus the UA/AC and DL/WS codeshares are taking a big bite out of the discretionary traffic not covered by the Canadian leisure carriers. Not much left to feed on.


There was an article titled "Southwest Airlines targets Canadian expansion" on The Globe and Mail's website back on September 9, 2014 which mentioned the possibility of WN adding service to Canadian airports, which can be found at https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/international-business/us-business/southwest-airlines-targets-canadian-expansion/article20493147/.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:37 pm

OK, 6 years ago in a totally different world. WN talks a good game when telling cities they "aren't serving them...YET!!" and some people take it at face value. All corporate speak for "Oh we've looked, but NO" without the rudeness.
Next up: STL DEN PSP DEN STL
 
jplatts
Posts: 3676
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:40 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
As for the appeal of connections via BWI... why? There are non-stops from plenty of major Canadian airports to popular-with-Canadians U.S. destinations, including YUL-MCO/TPA/RSW/PBI/FLL/MIA/PHX/LAS/LAX/SFO on AC/UA alone.


If WN adds BWI-YUL nonstop service, there would be connecting opportunities available at BWI on WN from YUL to some U.S. destinations that currently don't have any nonstop service to YUL such as ABQ, AUS, BHM, CVG, CLE, CMH, GRR, GSP, IND, JAX, MCI, SDF, MEM, MKE, ORF, OKC, STL, SLC, and SAT.
 
futuresdpdcop
Posts: 1256
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:06 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Southwest adds San Diego to Norfolk from Jan 5, daily except Saturdays.

https://twitter.com/NorfolkAirport/stat ... 6705850372

Just booked this flight for Feb 2021.
 
evank516
Posts: 2148
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:13 am

SurfandSnow wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
A lot of chatter about BZN getting WN service in the spring of 2021?
I would say yes if Covid wasn't happening.
I know BZN Has 4 new gates set to open in the spring of 2021.

Anything is possible I guess since they are chasing leisure traffic.
I don't think anyone saw 3 daily DEN and 1 weekend DAL going to HDN seasonally.

Flyguy


HDN sets a *very* interesting precedent for WN. EYW may have failed due to the highly seasonal nature of its market - could it come back as a seasonal station, especially now that their runway is a bit longer? Palm Springs and the Coachella valley are booming - could a seasonal PSP operation shuttling WN FFers to events like Coachella and Stagecoach do well in spite of WN's longstanding marketing campaign to use nearby ONT? ACK, ANC, BTV, BZN, EGE, FAI, HHH, JAC, JNU, MTJ, MVY, MYR, SAV, STT and VPS are other wildly popular domestic destinations that could make sense for WN, if only seasonally. ASE might be able to handle the 73Gs after its upcoming expansion too. Maybe WN could even consider some kind of service to Canada's popular resort/park/leisure markets such as YVR and YYC too? Of course, WN wouldn't add service to Canada until Americans can cross the border freely again - but I wonder about the possibility of Canadian service now that WN is much more open to seasonal stations than before...


EYW didn't fail because of it's seasonal nature IIRC. It's a year-round destination. It failed due to operational constraints associated with the short runway.
 
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SANFan
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:37 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
tjwgrr wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Southwest adds San Diego to Norfolk

Service between two cities each with large US Navy bases... :thumbsup:

GSA Federal Acquisition Service
City Pairs Program
Award List
Origin: SAN Destination: ORF
SAN DIEGO NORFOLK Southwest N 290.00 250.00 0.00 10/01/2020 09/30/2021

Looks like WN is the GSA winner.

Ah, thanks for this info 'flyer. I hadn't had a chance to look into the GSA numbers yet; that would certainly explain the serious effort in the market by WN. Then I'm expecting the route will do very well and should be with us permanently.

I've been waiting a very long time to see someone tackle this needy market! Nice job WN!

futuresdpdcop wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Southwest adds San Diego to Norfolk

Just booked this flight for Feb 2021.

Hey, please take some family and/or friends along! The more the merrier!!

I think SAN-ORF will do very well passenger traffic-wise, plus I'd think there would be a good amount of belly freight carried in both directions as well.

bb
 
DaCubbyBearBar
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:26 am

jplatts wrote:
SurfandSnow wrote:
Maybe WN could even consider some kind of service to Canada's popular resort/park/leisure markets such as YVR and YYC too? Of course, WN wouldn't add service to Canada until Americans can cross the border freely again - but I wonder about the possibility of Canadian service now that WN is much more open to seasonal stations than before...


I agree that WN adding service to Canada is a possibility as WN had previously stated that it was considering adding service to Canada.

I also agree that WN adding service to YYC is a possibility with YYC being further from the U.S.-Canada border than some other major Canadian cities such as Vancouver, Winnipeg, Toronto, Ottawa, and Montreal.

WN adding BWI-YUL nonstop service is also a possibility with
(a) AC and UA currently being the only airlines that serve the DCA/IAD/BWI market nonstop from YUL,
(b) WN having significant connecting feed in addition to O&D traffic to support BWI-YUL nonstop service, and
(c) YUL being far enough from any U.S. airport that is currently served by WN with ALB, which is the closest WN station to Montreal, being approximately 215 miles (driving distance) from Downtown Montreal.

NOT in 2020-2022....for all this is retrench and NOT expansion mode!! Airlines are just moving routes among dots already on their map. New markets lose money for a while, so you are not getting Canada anytime soon
I am me and no one else...so my opinions are mine
 
smokeybandit
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:25 pm

Nothing like awaiting the schedule extension to book a flight 7 months out, only to have no Wanna Get Away fare offered that day.
 
jplatts
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:00 pm

DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
NOT in 2020-2022....for all this is retrench and NOT expansion mode!! Airlines are just moving routes among dots already on their map. New markets lose money for a while, so you are not getting Canada anytime soon


I agree that WN adding service to Canada will probably not happen anytime soon, even though WN had previously mentioned adding service to Canada.
 
MrPeanut
Posts: 165
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:36 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:33 pm

jplatts wrote:
DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
NOT in 2020-2022....for all this is retrench and NOT expansion mode!! Airlines are just moving routes among dots already on their map. New markets lose money for a while, so you are not getting Canada anytime soon


I agree that WN adding service to Canada will probably not happen anytime soon, even though WN had previously mentioned adding service to Canada.


Although airlines have to let the covid thing play out, I think you will find Southwest make some aggressive early moves into new markets.
 
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LotsaRunway
Posts: 380
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:52 pm

SurfandSnow wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
A lot of chatter about BZN getting WN service in the spring of 2021?
I would say yes if Covid wasn't happening.
I know BZN Has 4 new gates set to open in the spring of 2021.

Anything is possible I guess since they are chasing leisure traffic.
I don't think anyone saw 3 daily DEN and 1 weekend DAL going to HDN seasonally.

Flyguy


HDN sets a *very* interesting precedent for WN. EYW may have failed due to the highly seasonal nature of its market - could it come back as a seasonal station, especially now that their runway is a bit longer? Palm Springs and the Coachella valley are booming - could a seasonal PSP operation shuttling WN FFers to events like Coachella and Stagecoach do well in spite of WN's longstanding marketing campaign to use nearby ONT? ACK, ANC, BTV, BZN, EGE, FAI, HHH, JAC, JNU, MTJ, MVY, MYR, SAV, STT and VPS are other wildly popular domestic destinations that could make sense for WN, if only seasonally. ASE might be able to handle the 73Gs after its upcoming expansion too. Maybe WN could even consider some kind of service to Canada's popular resort/park/leisure markets such as YVR and YYC too? Of course, WN wouldn't add service to Canada until Americans can cross the border freely again - but I wonder about the possibility of Canadian service now that WN is much more open to seasonal stations than before...

As always, WN keeps their eyes open for opportunity. HDN surprises me, but it is a market with heavy tourist traffic that pays premium fares. If the experiment works, I agree it could the door open for a few other select similar markets. I would trim your list way down to maybe BZN, EGE, JAC. Canada is a whole nother topic.
 
737max8
Posts: 640
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:13 am

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Fri Aug 14, 2020 4:35 pm

Canada hasn't happened yet due to foreign currency, not any of the other reasons mentioned. Canada traffic needs to be 50/50 for it to work. WN's other intl destinations are Americans going on vacation.
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
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jplatts
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Fri Aug 14, 2020 4:54 pm

LotsaRunway wrote:
As always, WN keeps their eyes open for opportunity. HDN surprises me, but it is a market with heavy tourist traffic that pays premium fares. If the experiment works, I agree it could the door open for a few other select similar markets. I would trim your list way down to maybe BZN, EGE, JAC. Canada is a whole nother topic.


In addition to adds to Western U.S. leisure destinations such as BZN or JAC, WN adding DEN-RIC nonstop service is also a possibility once demand for domestic air travel returns with
(a) WN carrying more passengers out of RIC in May 2020 than out of some other small WN stations in the contiguous U.S. such as CRP, GSP, ICT, DSM, ROC, and PWM,
(b) WN having already dropped ATL-LAX/OAK/SAN nonstop service (but having plans to resume ATL-SAN nonstop service on a Sunday-only basis starting on January 10th),
(c) a significant amount of passengers traveling to DEN and domestic destinations further west from RIC prior to the COVID-19 pandemic,
(d) DEN being a major leisure destination that doesn't currently have any nonstop LCC service out of RIC, even though UA currently serves DEN nonstop from RIC,
(e) DEN-RIC being one of the top routes out of DEN (prior to the COVID-19 pandemic) that isn't currently served nonstop by WN, and
(f) WN having recently added nonstop service to DEN from other destinations inherited through the WN-FL merger such as DSM, MEM, and ICT.

If WN does add DEN-RIC nonstop service, WN can also likely get better yields on DEN-RIC than on other DEN to East Coast nonstop routes once demand and fares return to normal levels with
(a) F9 not currently serving the RIC market,
(b) DEN-RIC having higher average fares than other DEN to East Coast nonstop routes that were served nonstop by UA, WN, or F9 in Q3 2019, and
(c) WN not having to compete against F9 on the DEN-RIC route whereas most of the current WN nonstop routes out of DEN have nonstop competition from F9.
 
phatfarmlines
Posts: 1537
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 12:06 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:06 pm

I presume some of these services, such as SAN-ORF (Navy Shuttle) is dependent on the MAX return?
 
jplatts
Posts: 3676
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:19 pm

phatfarmlines wrote:
I presume some of these services, such as SAN-ORF (Navy Shuttle) is dependent on the MAX return?


The resumption of SAN-ORF nonstop service is likely not dependent on 737 MAX return as WN is currently planning on operating SAN-ORF nonstop service using a 737-700.
 
DLASFlyer
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:06 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:42 pm

LotsaRunway wrote:
SurfandSnow wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
A lot of chatter about BZN getting WN service in the spring of 2021?
I would say yes if Covid wasn't happening.
I know BZN Has 4 new gates set to open in the spring of 2021.

Anything is possible I guess since they are chasing leisure traffic.
I don't think anyone saw 3 daily DEN and 1 weekend DAL going to HDN seasonally.

Flyguy


HDN sets a *very* interesting precedent for WN. EYW may have failed due to the highly seasonal nature of its market - could it come back as a seasonal station, especially now that their runway is a bit longer? Palm Springs and the Coachella valley are booming - could a seasonal PSP operation shuttling WN FFers to events like Coachella and Stagecoach do well in spite of WN's longstanding marketing campaign to use nearby ONT? ACK, ANC, BTV, BZN, EGE, FAI, HHH, JAC, JNU, MTJ, MVY, MYR, SAV, STT and VPS are other wildly popular domestic destinations that could make sense for WN, if only seasonally. ASE might be able to handle the 73Gs after its upcoming expansion too. Maybe WN could even consider some kind of service to Canada's popular resort/park/leisure markets such as YVR and YYC too? Of course, WN wouldn't add service to Canada until Americans can cross the border freely again - but I wonder about the possibility of Canadian service now that WN is much more open to seasonal stations than before...

As always, WN keeps their eyes open for opportunity. HDN surprises me, but it is a market with heavy tourist traffic that pays premium fares. If the experiment works, I agree it could the door open for a few other select similar markets. I would trim your list way down to maybe BZN, EGE, JAC. Canada is a whole nother topic.


I would add MTJ and GUC to that list. Texans love Southwest Airlines and Texans LOVE Southern Colorado ski resorts.
 
WN732
Posts: 809
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:49 am

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:48 pm

DLASFlyer wrote:
LotsaRunway wrote:
SurfandSnow wrote:

HDN sets a *very* interesting precedent for WN. EYW may have failed due to the highly seasonal nature of its market - could it come back as a seasonal station, especially now that their runway is a bit longer? Palm Springs and the Coachella valley are booming - could a seasonal PSP operation shuttling WN FFers to events like Coachella and Stagecoach do well in spite of WN's longstanding marketing campaign to use nearby ONT? ACK, ANC, BTV, BZN, EGE, FAI, HHH, JAC, JNU, MTJ, MVY, MYR, SAV, STT and VPS are other wildly popular domestic destinations that could make sense for WN, if only seasonally. ASE might be able to handle the 73Gs after its upcoming expansion too. Maybe WN could even consider some kind of service to Canada's popular resort/park/leisure markets such as YVR and YYC too? Of course, WN wouldn't add service to Canada until Americans can cross the border freely again - but I wonder about the possibility of Canadian service now that WN is much more open to seasonal stations than before...

As always, WN keeps their eyes open for opportunity. HDN surprises me, but it is a market with heavy tourist traffic that pays premium fares. If the experiment works, I agree it could the door open for a few other select similar markets. I would trim your list way down to maybe BZN, EGE, JAC. Canada is a whole nother topic.


I would add MTJ and GUC to that list. Texans love Southwest Airlines and Texans LOVE Southern Colorado ski resorts.


Indeed they do! I could honestly see AUS/DAL/HOU to some of the ski resorts, especially EGE.
 
User avatar
SANFan
Posts: 5413
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:51 pm

phatfarmlines wrote:
I presume some of these services, such as SAN-ORF (Navy Shuttle) is dependent on the MAX return?

With all the cancelled flights & dropped routes that WN has seen lately, and continuing thru the rest of 2020, I seriously doubt they have any shortage of a/c to start a few new routes or frequencies.

Since apparently WN has won the GSA contract for SAN-ORF for 2021, I think they are very intent on flying the route at long last! (And yes, I know they flew it last summer as a test flight, weekly for 2 months.)

bb
 
jplatts
Posts: 3676
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:27 pm

SurfandSnow wrote:
HDN sets a *very* interesting precedent for WN. EYW may have failed due to the highly seasonal nature of its market - could it come back as a seasonal station, especially now that their runway is a bit longer? Palm Springs and the Coachella valley are booming - could a seasonal PSP operation shuttling WN FFers to events like Coachella and Stagecoach do well in spite of WN's longstanding marketing campaign to use nearby ONT? ACK, ANC, BTV, BZN, EGE, FAI, HHH, JAC, JNU, MTJ, MVY, MYR, SAV, STT and VPS are other wildly popular domestic destinations that could make sense for WN, if only seasonally. ASE might be able to handle the 73Gs after its upcoming expansion too.


If WN is considering adding adding service to markets such as HDN on a seasonal basis, WN adding summer seasonal service to TVC from MDW, BNA, STL, and/or BWI might be a possibility with demand to TVC being strong around the 4th of July holiday (at least prior to the COVID-19 pandemic). In addition, most of the US3 hub airports east of the Rocky Mountains already have nonstop service to TVC on AA, DL, or UA on at least a summer seasonal basis, with BOS, IAH, JFK, MIA, and PHL being the only US3 hub airports east of the Rocky Mountains that do not currently have any nonstop service to TVC.

Here are the numbers for TVC service on AA/DL/UA in July 2019:
90784 passengers
106446 seats
85.29% average load factor

There are also some AA, DL, and UA flights to and from TVC that are completely full or almost completely full around the 4th of July, and fares into TVC on US3 carriers are also normally high around the 4th of July.

TVC also carried more than double the amount of passengers that HDN did in 2019, with TVC carrying 569,000 passengers compared to HDN carrying only 209,000 passengers.
 
sprxUSA
Posts: 420
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:17 am

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:50 am

ISN'T WN receiving money from Steamboat resorts to do this?
Gem State Airlines..."we have a gem of an airline"
 
jplatts
Posts: 3676
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:49 pm

SurfandSnow wrote:
ACK, ANC, BTV, BZN, EGE, FAI, HHH, JAC, JNU, MTJ, MVY, MYR, SAV, STT and VPS are other wildly popular domestic destinations that could make sense for WN, if only seasonally.


WN had previously stated that it was considering adding service to Alaska, and there was a presentation given by Dave Harvey back in June 2016 that said that HNL, OGG, CVG, and ANC were the only 4 U.S. markets in the top 50 that weren't served by WN in 2016.

Here is a slide from the presentation given by Dave Harvey on behalf of Southwest Airlines at the 2016 ACI-NA JumpStart Air Service Development Conference back in June 2016:
Image

There was also an article in the Dallas Business Journal titled "Where will Southwest Airlines fly next: Hawaii, South America or elsewhere?" published back in January 2017 that said that WN is already considering adding service to Alaska, and that article can be found at https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... -next.html.
 
DLASFlyer
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:06 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:57 pm

sprxUSA wrote:
ISN'T WN receiving money from Steamboat resorts to do this?


Possibly, although this article notes voters axed a tax that was contributing to the air service program.
https://www.steamboatpilot.com/news/som ... nning-dry/

I live in JAC and the airlines are more and more adding service on their own accord without revenue guarantees. There are three empty gates right now at JAC if WN wanted to enter.
 
jplatts
Posts: 3676
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Sat Aug 15, 2020 1:25 pm

DLASFlyer wrote:
I live in JAC and the airlines are more and more adding service on their own accord without revenue guarantees. There are three empty gates right now at JAC if WN wanted to enter.


If WN does add service to JAC, WN could add nonstop service to JAC from BWI, MDW, DAL, DEN, LAX, and OAK with WAS, CHI, DFW/DAL, DEN, LAX/BUR/LGB/ONT/SNA, and SFO/OAK/SJC being top domestic markets traveled to from JAC.
 
n7371f
Posts: 1836
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:54 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Sun Aug 16, 2020 3:50 am

Geez 3x daily. How much is Steamboat paying WN?

Ishrion wrote:
Southwest press release for DAL/DEN-HDN: https://www.swamedia.com/releases/relea ... s-colorado
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 1987
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension - Aug 13

Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:02 am

Sounds like if WN see's a good local booking traffic from the HDN catchment area from non Ski package traffic it's possible it could keep a daily DEN flight year round.
The operation cost are extremely low since all Ground handling is 3ed party.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!

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