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LAX772LR
Posts: 14329
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:22 pm

D L X wrote:
madpropsyo wrote:
Why in the world would you take an autistic 3 year old who can't wear a mask on a flight right now anyway? How utterly irresponsible and dangerous for your child, let alone others. It's absolutely right that she was removed.

You have absolutely no idea why this family chose to fly. For all you know, they could be going to treatment, or a funeral. Don't ever question someone's motives when you don't know.

Not don't know..... don't CARE.

No matter what their issue was, it isn't worth risking the lives of 100+ others, especially crew who have no choice but to deal with them.
 
jetwet1
Posts: 3417
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:42 am

Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:42 pm

Alfons wrote:
mcdu wrote:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/2020/08/11/southwest-flight-removes-family-son-3-autism-wont-wear-mask/3350229001

Have seen this story in several outlets, this is from USA Today. Isn't there provisions for cases like this to excuse the child from wearing a mask?


Really? There are US laws demanding 3 year old children - with autism or not - to wear a mask?
Nice...


There is no being nice with this virus, I really don't understand why people can't understand this, it doesn't care if you are naughty or nice, if it can find a way to kill you it will, so why not take every precaution you can ??

LAX772LR wrote:
D L X wrote:
madpropsyo wrote:
Why in the world would you take an autistic 3 year old who can't wear a mask on a flight right now anyway? How utterly irresponsible and dangerous for your child, let alone others. It's absolutely right that she was removed.

You have absolutely no idea why this family chose to fly. For all you know, they could be going to treatment, or a funeral. Don't ever question someone's motives when you don't know.

Not don't know..... don't CARE.

No matter what their issue was, it isn't worth risking the lives of 100+ others.



And there you have it.

In the end, WN, along with every other airline and business when it comes down to it is on private property, go with their rules, or pick another company to give your money to.

Then of course we have the lady in PHX who decided to assault an AA employee because they refused to allow her to board without a mask, I see this level of stupidity every day and I still don't get it, if you want to do business with a company, they get to set the rules, not you, again, if you don't like those rules or are unable to comply with them, go somewhere else.
 
kiowa
Posts: 899
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:37 am

Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:56 pm

jetwet1 wrote:
Alfons wrote:
mcdu wrote:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/2020/08/11/southwest-flight-removes-family-son-3-autism-wont-wear-mask/3350229001

Have seen this story in several outlets, this is from USA Today. Isn't there provisions for cases like this to excuse the child from wearing a mask?


Really? There are US laws demanding 3 year old children - with autism or not - to wear a mask?
Nice...


There is no being nice with this virus, I really don't understand why people can't understand this, it doesn't care if you are naughty or nice, if it can find a way to kill you it will, so why not take every precaution you can ??

LAX772LR wrote:
D L X wrote:
You have absolutely no idea why this family chose to fly. For all you know, they could be going to treatment, or a funeral. Don't ever question someone's motives when you don't know.

Not don't know..... don't CARE.

No matter what their issue was, it isn't worth risking the lives of 100+ others.



And there you have it.

In the end, WN, along with every other airline and business when it comes down to it is on private property, go with their rules, or pick another company to give your money to.

Then of course we have the lady in PHX who decided to assault an AA employee because they refused to allow her to board without a mask, I see this level of stupidity every day and I still don't get it, if you want to do business with a company, they get to set the rules, not you, again, if you don't like those rules or are unable to comply with them, go somewhere else.


It’s not so simple. But if Southwest decided they wanted a rule that said no autistic people on board.
 
WNbob
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:36 pm

Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:57 pm

AUGUST 14 UPDATE: Airlines are Tightening the Mask Rule. Throw your fake ADA cards away and don't even mention lawyers 'cuz theirs already on it.
 
b747400erf
Posts: 3177
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:33 am

Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:27 pm

kiowa wrote:
jetwet1 wrote:
Alfons wrote:

Really? There are US laws demanding 3 year old children - with autism or not - to wear a mask?
Nice...


There is no being nice with this virus, I really don't understand why people can't understand this, it doesn't care if you are naughty or nice, if it can find a way to kill you it will, so why not take every precaution you can ??

LAX772LR wrote:
Not don't know..... don't CARE.

No matter what their issue was, it isn't worth risking the lives of 100+ others.



And there you have it.

In the end, WN, along with every other airline and business when it comes down to it is on private property, go with their rules, or pick another company to give your money to.

Then of course we have the lady in PHX who decided to assault an AA employee because they refused to allow her to board without a mask, I see this level of stupidity every day and I still don't get it, if you want to do business with a company, they get to set the rules, not you, again, if you don't like those rules or are unable to comply with them, go somewhere else.


It’s not so simple. But if Southwest decided they wanted a rule that said no autistic people on board.


If a child cannot keep a mask on they cannot be on an airplane. It is not a safe time for you to feel you are exempt from rules that try and prevent the spread of a virus on a path to kill 200,000 Americans only from the beginning of the YEAR all by the end of this month
 
a340crew
Posts: 186
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:59 pm

Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Sat Aug 15, 2020 2:16 am

atrude777 wrote:
mcdu wrote:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/2020/08/11/southwest-flight-removes-family-son-3-autism-wont-wear-mask/3350229001

Have seen this story in several outlets, this is from USA Today. Isn't there provisions for cases like this to excuse the child from wearing a mask?



Nope, No Mask, No exceptions..

All Airlines have this policy...United, AA, Southwest, Delta...

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/air ... xceptions/

Alex


Delta has a Clear to Fly Exemption, where someone who can't wear a mask for medical reasons can get an exemption and fly with out one. It does require going through delta's medical team though prior to the flight and special approval.
 
Andy33
Posts: 2570
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am

Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Sat Aug 15, 2020 6:30 am

b747400erf wrote:

If a child cannot keep a mask on they cannot be on an airplane. It is not a safe time for you to feel you are exempt from rules that try and prevent the spread of a virus on a path to kill 200,000 Americans only from the beginning of the YEAR all by the end of this month

If a child cannot keep a mask on and there is a loss of cabin pressure, the child is going to die from lack of oxygen, even if everyone else survives the incident unharmed. So if it is impossible to teach the child to wear a mask, it is criminally irresponsible even in non-COVID times to take them onboard a plane.
 
mcdu
Topic Author
Posts: 1713
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Sat Aug 15, 2020 5:49 pm

What about the 6 foot rule. You don’t have 6 feet from aisle to window or aisle to aisle if you keep the middle seat open. The virus didn’t arbitrarily decided 6 feet but that has been the deemed distance except on a plane.

A mask and distance can not guarantee your safety. They are aides to that safe feeling. It isn’t a guarantee, nor is a vaccine! We get flu shots and yet people still get the flu.

The hubris of this over the child is on par with misunderstanding that a mask is the only thing you need to stay virus free.

Social distance is not possible on a plane. You are taking a risk to travel. If you want zero risk don’t leave home.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 15186
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Sat Aug 15, 2020 7:30 pm

If anyone believes encountering an asymptomatic 3-year old child is the big risk they face when flying, to the point that we ban perfectly healthy children from public life even though some places require them to wear a mask and others don’t, it’s a very sad world you want to live in.

The idea that 2 year and 355 day old is fine, but 3 year old is typhoid Mary is ludicrous. Especially when all statistics show that not to be the case.
 
UA735WL
Posts: 305
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:08 pm

Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:01 pm

mcdu wrote:
What about the 6 foot rule. You don’t have 6 feet from aisle to window or aisle to aisle if you keep the middle seat open. The virus didn’t arbitrarily decided 6 feet but that has been the deemed distance except on a plane.

A mask and distance can not guarantee your safety. They are aides to that safe feeling. It isn’t a guarantee, nor is a vaccine! We get flu shots and yet people still get the flu.

The hubris of this over the child is on par with misunderstanding that a mask is the only thing you need to stay virus free.

Social distance is not possible on a plane. You are taking a risk to travel. If you want zero risk don’t leave home.



This. I couldn't agree more, and that's also omitting that during drink/snack services everyone takes their masks off (at the same time too) to drink and eat.(Yes, I know some carriers went to just water. People still take masks off to drink it.) Does the virus just decide that it won't infect people at that time? Of course not- but it's important for WN to make everyone *feel* like something is being done so the hysterical masses feel safe flying them. That's why they're being so strict.
 
Flflyer83
Posts: 197
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 4:40 pm

Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:05 pm

UA735WL wrote:
mcdu wrote:
What about the 6 foot rule. You don’t have 6 feet from aisle to window or aisle to aisle if you keep the middle seat open. The virus didn’t arbitrarily decided 6 feet but that has been the deemed distance except on a plane.

A mask and distance can not guarantee your safety. They are aides to that safe feeling. It isn’t a guarantee, nor is a vaccine! We get flu shots and yet people still get the flu.

The hubris of this over the child is on par with misunderstanding that a mask is the only thing you need to stay virus free.

Social distance is not possible on a plane. You are taking a risk to travel. If you want zero risk don’t leave home.



This. I couldn't agree more, and that's also omitting that during drink/snack services everyone takes their masks off (at the same time too) to drink and eat.(Yes, I know some carriers went to just water. People still take masks off to drink it.) Does the virus just decide that it won't infect people at that time? Of course not- but it's important for WN to make everyone *feel* like something is being done so the hysterical masses feel safe flying them. That's why they're being so strict.


It’s about reducing the risk for transmission. 3 feet apart is better than 12inches apart. Everyone wearing a face mask reduces the transmission compared to not. It’s actually pretty ____________ simple you understand.

If you don’t like the methods of a particular business, then don’t do business with said business. So many “snowflakes” over non-governmental entities requiring people to wear face masks.
 
ASFlyer
Posts: 1908
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:06 pm

ikramerica wrote:
If anyone believes encountering an asymptomatic 3-year old child is the big risk they face when flying, to the point that we ban perfectly healthy children from public life even though some places require them to wear a mask and others don’t, it’s a very sad world you want to live in.

The idea that 2 year and 355 day old is fine, but 3 year old is typhoid Mary is ludicrous. Especially when all statistics show that not to be the case.


1 year and 355 day old. 2 year olds have to wear the mask
 
Bradin
Posts: 400
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:12 am

Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:56 pm

I am really amazed at the lack of empathy. It's one thing if its an young child or adult who is who doesn't want to wear a mask, and they are fully capable of wearing one.

But please, let's try to have some compassion and empathy for families with children who have to wrestle with autism or similar. We may think it's unreasonable, but to the child with autism, it's the equivalent of turning the world upside down.

I'm reminded of a story a few years back where a family was getting desperate to find the right color and shape of a sippy cup for their autistic child because that's the only way he would drink any liquids. It had to be the exact shape and color. No variations of the shape. No different colors. No variations or tints of the same color. It got to a point where the child was refusing to drink any water or liquids and death was slowly knocking on his door.

I for one would like to find a way for such individuals who legitimately can't wear a mask and I'm willing to be a bit more understanding.

However, at the same time, I would throw someone off a plane if they refuse to wear a mask on the principals of 'they don't want to' even though they are more than physically, emotionally and mentally are capable of wearing one.
Last edited by Bradin on Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
UA735WL
Posts: 305
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:08 pm

Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:38 pm

Flflyer83 wrote:
UA735WL wrote:
mcdu wrote:
What about the 6 foot rule. You don’t have 6 feet from aisle to window or aisle to aisle if you keep the middle seat open. The virus didn’t arbitrarily decided 6 feet but that has been the deemed distance except on a plane.

A mask and distance can not guarantee your safety. They are aides to that safe feeling. It isn’t a guarantee, nor is a vaccine! We get flu shots and yet people still get the flu.

The hubris of this over the child is on par with misunderstanding that a mask is the only thing you need to stay virus free.

Social distance is not possible on a plane. You are taking a risk to travel. If you want zero risk don’t leave home.



This. I couldn't agree more, and that's also omitting that during drink/snack services everyone takes their masks off (at the same time too) to drink and eat.(Yes, I know some carriers went to just water. People still take masks off to drink it.) Does the virus just decide that it won't infect people at that time? Of course not- but it's important for WN to make everyone *feel* like something is being done so the hysterical masses feel safe flying them. That's why they're being so strict.


It’s about reducing the risk for transmission. 3 feet apart is better than 12inches apart. Everyone wearing a face mask reduces the transmission compared to not. It’s actually pretty ____________ simple you understand.

If you don’t like the methods of a particular business, then don’t do business with said business. So many “snowflakes” over non-governmental entities requiring people to wear face masks.



I don't recall saying anything about disagreeing with WN. Really what I was trying to point out is that if you're *really* that concerned about the virus, you should probably stay home. WN, of course, *really really* does NOT want people to stay home. I almost think they're making an example out of this particular case to show that they're serious about the masks, and therefore appease the segment of the population that's completely paralyzed with fear over this disease and actually derives comfort from hearing that they're spraying planes and blocking middle seats.

As far as the effectiveness of the aforementioned onboard procedures go, if they float the public's boat and make folks feel better, great. If everyone is taking their masks off to eat and drink, it's pretty much negating wearing a mask the rest of the flight. As mcdu said, it's not really *practically* possible to socially distance aboard an aircraft. Sure 3 feet is better than 12 inches, but it's still not nearly enough if you're *actually* trying to avoid the virus. (It's also worth mentioning that if someone is sitting in front of you, they're closer to you than the person sitting next to you across the blocked middle seat, yet nobody has an issue with that.)

If WN's goal was to actually avoid spreading the virus, they would limit load factors to 33% (window seats only- definitely more than 6' apart at that point) ,not serve drinks and snacks, and board the aircraft one by one- or maybe just shut down entirely and tell people to avoid flying. Of course neither one of these courses of action are reasonable from an air carrier's point of view. The airlines have figured out that the sweet spot of doing business during this pandemic lies in *appearing* to be doing something about the virus. This way, you're making the nervous crowd feel okay about flying, while still allowing the people who aren't afraid to give you their money as well.

As for the bit about "snowflakes" , It seems that most folks-myself included- are perfectly willing to buckle down and wear a mask in public (temporarily- hearing the phrase "new normal" is admittedly frustrating, but that's not relevant) if it helps avoid mass hysteria leading to another lockdown and further decimation of people's livelihoods. That doesn't mean that they're happy about it, or that doing so won't create rather complex social issues- such as the one this thread was created to explore.

I'm a huge WN fan. This situation seems like a classic case of "damned if you do, damned if you don't". If I was a behavioral scientist, I would be absolutely salivating at seeing the effects this pandemic has had on the public based on the level of outrage at events like these. Not wearing a mask has really been villified.
 
hondah35
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 1:55 pm

Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Sat Aug 15, 2020 11:10 pm

madpropsyo wrote:
D L X wrote:
madpropsyo wrote:
Why in the world would you take an autistic 3 year old who can't wear a mask on a flight right now anyway? How utterly irresponsible and dangerous for your child, let alone others. It's absolutely right that she was removed.


You have absolutely no idea why this family chose to fly. For all you know, they could be going to treatment, or a funeral. Don't ever question someone's motives when you don't know.


No, I'm still going to question it thanks. You don't have an inalienable right to escape scrutiny because you "might" have a good reason to be doing something. There are many other means of travel available and during a pandemic to take a child onto public transportation knowing full well that they can't wear a mask is terribly irresponsible regardless of the reason for travel.


You tell 'em! No autistic kids should be allowed without masks, period! This pandemic is just too serious. Why in my state 4400 people out of 7.4 million have died for a total death rate of .06%. That's pretty scary and health and safety should come first AT ALL TIMES. No exceptions. Wear those masks people. Be serious and responsible.
 
Flflyer83
Posts: 197
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 4:40 pm

Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Sun Aug 16, 2020 2:03 am

Bradin wrote:
I am really amazed at the lack of empathy. It's one thing if its an young child or adult who is who doesn't want to wear a mask, and they are fully capable of wearing one.

But please, let's try to have some compassion and empathy for families with children who have to wrestle with autism or similar. We may think it's unreasonable, but to the child with autism, it's the equivalent of turning the world upside down.

I'm reminded of a story a few years back where a family was getting desperate to find the right color and shape of a sippy cup for their autistic child because that's the only way he would drink any liquids. It had to be the exact shape and color. No variations of the shape. No different colors. No variations or tints of the same color. It got to a point where the child was refusing to drink any water or liquids and death was slowly knocking on his door.

I for one would like to find a way for such individuals who legitimately can't wear a mask and I'm willing to be a bit more understanding.

However, at the same time, I would throw someone off a plane if they refuse to wear a mask on the principals of 'they don't want to' even though they are more than physically, emotionally and mentally are capable of wearing one.


So, no empathy for the person with cancer traveling to receive treatment or going to grandmas funeral, which the wearing of masks helps to protect? Research thus far points to children being more likely to be asymptomatic carriers.
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Posts: 12022
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Sun Aug 16, 2020 3:42 am

Could we please just discuss the topic and keep personal comments towards other users out of the discussion
 
mcdu
Topic Author
Posts: 1713
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Sun Aug 16, 2020 1:11 pm

Flflyer83 wrote:
UA735WL wrote:
mcdu wrote:
What about the 6 foot rule. You don’t have 6 feet from aisle to window or aisle to aisle if you keep the middle seat open. The virus didn’t arbitrarily decided 6 feet but that has been the deemed distance except on a plane.

A mask and distance can not guarantee your safety. They are aides to that safe feeling. It isn’t a guarantee, nor is a vaccine! We get flu shots and yet people still get the flu.

The hubris of this over the child is on par with misunderstanding that a mask is the only thing you need to stay virus free.

Social distance is not possible on a plane. You are taking a risk to travel. If you want zero risk don’t leave home.



This. I couldn't agree more, and that's also omitting that during drink/snack services everyone takes their masks off (at the same time too) to drink and eat.(Yes, I know some carriers went to just water. People still take masks off to drink it.) Does the virus just decide that it won't infect people at that time? Of course not- but it's important for WN to make everyone *feel* like something is being done so the hysterical masses feel safe flying them. That's why they're being so strict.


It’s about reducing the risk for transmission. 3 feet apart is better than 12inches apart. Everyone wearing a face mask reduces the transmission compared to not. It’s actually pretty ____________ simple you understand.

If you don’t like the methods of a particular business, then don’t do business with said business. So many “snowflakes” over non-governmental entities requiring people to wear face masks.


In keeping with your argument would you get off a WN flight If they allowed a 3 year old child to go without a mask? The argument of “if you don’t like their policy don’t shop there” would apply to you also.

Always find it ironic how the people that are upset about being on full planes and feeling “unsafe” will tweet photos of themselves in the cabin and remark about the fear they felt. Yet, they don’t have enough fear to inconvenience themselves and take another flight.

This pandemic has brought forward many of the bad qualities people have. Be it the yelling and screaming about a mask requirement to the true lack of ability to understand life is is full of risk. Somehow the nation that put men on the men moon and have explored far reaches of the earth now want a safety bubble and warning label attached to life.
 
Stewie787
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:02 pm

Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Sun Aug 16, 2020 3:22 pm

I agree they did the right thing, wearing masks are for safety, to say the autistic person can’t wear a mask where do you draw the line? They are autistic so don’t wear a seatbelt? Which is for their safety and those around them
(when they become a human projectile in a crash)

No mask no flight...
 
Flflyer83
Posts: 197
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 4:40 pm

Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:43 pm

mcdu wrote:
Flflyer83 wrote:
UA735WL wrote:


This. I couldn't agree more, and that's also omitting that during drink/snack services everyone takes their masks off (at the same time too) to drink and eat.(Yes, I know some carriers went to just water. People still take masks off to drink it.) Does the virus just decide that it won't infect people at that time? Of course not- but it's important for WN to make everyone *feel* like something is being done so the hysterical masses feel safe flying them. That's why they're being so strict.


It’s about reducing the risk for transmission. 3 feet apart is better than 12inches apart. Everyone wearing a face mask reduces the transmission compared to not. It’s actually pretty ____________ simple you understand.

If you don’t like the methods of a particular business, then don’t do business with said business. So many “snowflakes” over non-governmental entities requiring people to wear face masks.


In keeping with your argument would you get off a WN flight If they allowed a 3 year old child to go without a mask? The argument of “if you don’t like their policy don’t shop there” would apply to you also.

Always find it ironic how the people that are upset about being on full planes and feeling “unsafe” will tweet photos of themselves in the cabin and remark about the fear they felt. Yet, they don’t have enough fear to inconvenience themselves and take another flight.

This pandemic has brought forward many of the bad qualities people have. Be it the yelling and screaming about a mask requirement to the true lack of ability to understand life is is full of risk. Somehow the nation that put men on the men moon and have explored far reaches of the earth now want a safety bubble and warning label attached to life.


Except I would be on that flight with the full expectation of everyone wearing a mask as that is what the WN policy states. I wouldn’t say anything if I was on an airline that didn’t have such policy and people weren’t wearing masks as that’s there isn’t such policy on hypothetical airline.

And the rest of your comment goes back to you... why do people have a problem with doing a simple task such as wearing a mask if it has the prospects of saving one life.

I always find it ironic how the people that are most against masks are the same ones that clinch their guns and scream about needing guns to protect themselves against crimes that have a lower percentage of happening to someone than being affected by COVID.
 
Mboyle1988
Posts: 94
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:38 am

Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Sun Aug 16, 2020 7:13 pm

Flflyer83 wrote:
mcdu wrote:
Flflyer83 wrote:

It’s about reducing the risk for transmission. 3 feet apart is better than 12inches apart. Everyone wearing a face mask reduces the transmission compared to not. It’s actually pretty ____________ simple you understand.

If you don’t like the methods of a particular business, then don’t do business with said business. So many “snowflakes” over non-governmental entities requiring people to wear face masks.


In keeping with your argument would you get off a WN flight If they allowed a 3 year old child to go without a mask? The argument of “if you don’t like their policy don’t shop there” would apply to you also.

Always find it ironic how the people that are upset about being on full planes and feeling “unsafe” will tweet photos of themselves in the cabin and remark about the fear they felt. Yet, they don’t have enough fear to inconvenience themselves and take another flight.

This pandemic has brought forward many of the bad qualities people have. Be it the yelling and screaming about a mask requirement to the true lack of ability to understand life is is full of risk. Somehow the nation that put men on the men moon and have explored far reaches of the earth now want a safety bubble and warning label attached to life.


Except I would be on that flight with the full expectation of everyone wearing a mask as that is what the WN policy states. I wouldn’t say anything if I was on an airline that didn’t have such policy and people weren’t wearing masks as that’s there isn’t such policy on hypothetical airline.

And the rest of your comment goes back to you... why do people have a problem with doing a simple task such as wearing a mask if it has the prospects of saving one life.

I always find it ironic how the people that are most against masks are the same ones that clinch their guns and scream about needing guns to protect themselves against crimes that have a lower percentage of happening to someone than being affected by COVID.


The number of Americans under 65 with no major preexisting conditions who have died from Covid is 452. So, for most people, the threat of armed robbery or murder is far higher than of dying of Covid.

I disagree with the policy of making young children wear masks. I think it is cruel and unrealistic. Nonetheless southwest has the right to create policies I disagree with. So I’m not surprised the family was asked to leave.
 
User avatar
moo
Posts: 5117
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 2:27 am

Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Sun Aug 16, 2020 9:22 pm

Mboyle1988 wrote:
Flflyer83 wrote:
mcdu wrote:

In keeping with your argument would you get off a WN flight If they allowed a 3 year old child to go without a mask? The argument of “if you don’t like their policy don’t shop there” would apply to you also.

Always find it ironic how the people that are upset about being on full planes and feeling “unsafe” will tweet photos of themselves in the cabin and remark about the fear they felt. Yet, they don’t have enough fear to inconvenience themselves and take another flight.

This pandemic has brought forward many of the bad qualities people have. Be it the yelling and screaming about a mask requirement to the true lack of ability to understand life is is full of risk. Somehow the nation that put men on the men moon and have explored far reaches of the earth now want a safety bubble and warning label attached to life.


Except I would be on that flight with the full expectation of everyone wearing a mask as that is what the WN policy states. I wouldn’t say anything if I was on an airline that didn’t have such policy and people weren’t wearing masks as that’s there isn’t such policy on hypothetical airline.

And the rest of your comment goes back to you... why do people have a problem with doing a simple task such as wearing a mask if it has the prospects of saving one life.

I always find it ironic how the people that are most against masks are the same ones that clinch their guns and scream about needing guns to protect themselves against crimes that have a lower percentage of happening to someone than being affected by COVID.


The number of Americans under 65 with no major preexisting conditions who have died from Covid is 452. So, for most people, the threat of armed robbery or murder is far higher than of dying of Covid.

I disagree with the policy of making young children wear masks. I think it is cruel and unrealistic. Nonetheless southwest has the right to create policies I disagree with. So I’m not surprised the family was asked to leave.


Death is only one outcome of COVID - serious, long term health issues are another. And we are seeing a lot more of those outcomes than deaths but all you hear about in the media are "infection cases", "deaths" and "recoveries" - there is a lot hidden in that third statistic that is going to haunt us for a generation.
 
alfa164
Posts: 4000
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Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Sun Aug 16, 2020 10:49 pm

Mboyle1988 wrote:
The number of Americans under 65 with no major preexisting conditions who have died from Covid is 452. So, for most people, the threat of armed robbery or murder is far higher than of dying of Covid.


Where do you find those claims? Can you back up that statistic? Literally tens of thousands of American under 65 have died of Covid-19; are you claiming that all of them had "preexisting conditions"? What were those "conditions"? The fact that they had red blood, instead of blue?


https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covi ... /index.htm
 
Bradin
Posts: 400
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Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:31 am

Flflyer83 wrote:
Bradin wrote:
I am really amazed at the lack of empathy. It's one thing if its an young child or adult who is who doesn't want to wear a mask, and they are fully capable of wearing one.

But please, let's try to have some compassion and empathy for families with children who have to wrestle with autism or similar. We may think it's unreasonable, but to the child with autism, it's the equivalent of turning the world upside down.

I'm reminded of a story a few years back where a family was getting desperate to find the right color and shape of a sippy cup for their autistic child because that's the only way he would drink any liquids. It had to be the exact shape and color. No variations of the shape. No different colors. No variations or tints of the same color. It got to a point where the child was refusing to drink any water or liquids and death was slowly knocking on his door.

I for one would like to find a way for such individuals who legitimately can't wear a mask and I'm willing to be a bit more understanding.

However, at the same time, I would throw someone off a plane if they refuse to wear a mask on the principals of 'they don't want to' even though they are more than physically, emotionally and mentally are capable of wearing one.


So, no empathy for the person with cancer traveling to receive treatment or going to grandmas funeral, which the wearing of masks helps to protect? Research thus far points to children being more likely to be asymptomatic carriers.


I have equal empathy for those individuals as well. Something to note in those two specific examples brought forth:

a) Many non-essential medical treatments have been canceled. Regrettably, that includes some cancer treatments. (please don't shoot the messenger)
b) Many folks are not being permitted to attend large funerals; in many cases funerals, those funerals are being conducted virtually.

At the end of the day, we're better off finding a reasonable way to move forward and finding some shades of grey versus the present black and white situation. The keyword here is "reasonable".
 
Flflyer83
Posts: 197
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Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:37 am

Bradin wrote:
Flflyer83 wrote:
Bradin wrote:
I am really amazed at the lack of empathy. It's one thing if its an young child or adult who is who doesn't want to wear a mask, and they are fully capable of wearing one.

But please, let's try to have some compassion and empathy for families with children who have to wrestle with autism or similar. We may think it's unreasonable, but to the child with autism, it's the equivalent of turning the world upside down.

I'm reminded of a story a few years back where a family was getting desperate to find the right color and shape of a sippy cup for their autistic child because that's the only way he would drink any liquids. It had to be the exact shape and color. No variations of the shape. No different colors. No variations or tints of the same color. It got to a point where the child was refusing to drink any water or liquids and death was slowly knocking on his door.

I for one would like to find a way for such individuals who legitimately can't wear a mask and I'm willing to be a bit more understanding.

However, at the same time, I would throw someone off a plane if they refuse to wear a mask on the principals of 'they don't want to' even though they are more than physically, emotionally and mentally are capable of wearing one.


So, no empathy for the person with cancer traveling to receive treatment or going to grandmas funeral, which the wearing of masks helps to protect? Research thus far points to children being more likely to be asymptomatic carriers.


I have equal empathy for those individuals as well. Something to note in those two specific examples brought forth:

a) Many non-essential medical treatments have been canceled. Regrettably, that includes some cancer treatments. (please don't shoot the messenger)
b) Many folks are not being permitted to attend large funerals; in many cases funerals, those funerals are being conducted virtually.

At the end of the day, we're better off finding a reasonable way to move forward and finding some shades of grey versus the present black and white situation. The keyword here is "reasonable".


A) Many non-essential medical treatments have resumed and specialty hospitals that focus on the treatment of specific diseases (ie. MD Anderson Cancer Center, Cleveland Clinic, Mayo Clinic) have continued to serve their patients, and those are the ones that patient’s will fly to for treatment. You are correct in that local / community hospitals had cancelled such procedures; however, most of those that did cease treatments have resumed.
B) Immediate family members are traveling to funerals as well as to be as close to their dying loved ones as possible.

Comorbidities include diseases such as hypertension, diabetes, kidney disease, obesity, heart disease, etc., etc., etc... 6 out of 10 adults in the US have a diagnosed chronic disease. 4 in 10 adults in the US have 2 or more chronic disease diagnoses. 50% of adults in the US have been diagnosed with hypertension. 43% of adults in the US have been diagnosed with obesity. 14% of adults in the US have been diagnosed with kidney disease. 11% of adults in the US have been diagnosed with diabetes.
 
NYCVIE
Posts: 388
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Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:49 am

ikramerica wrote:
If anyone believes encountering an asymptomatic 3-year old child is the big risk they face when flying, to the point that we ban perfectly healthy children from public life even though some places require them to wear a mask and others don’t, it’s a very sad world you want to live in.

The idea that 2 year and 355 day old is fine, but 3 year old is typhoid Mary is ludicrous. Especially when all statistics show that not to be the case.


Nobody wants to live in this world but the quicker we all accept this temporary reality the faster we get out of this world. The asymptomatic thing is irrelevant in this case because clearly the virus has spread more through asymptomatic transmission than symptomatic transmission...

Also your thing about age is literally how everything works so I'm not sure what your point is? If person A turns 18 on November 1 and person B turns 18 on November 5 one will get to vote and the other won't even though there's virtually no difference whatsoever between the two. One who is 20 and 355 days can't legally purchase alcohol while one who is 21 can. One who is 4 feet 11.5 inches can't ride the roller coaster while one who is 5 feet can. So on and so forth.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:04 am

Discuss the topic, not other users. Moderators do not arbitrate facts nor do we support there is only one side to a discussion. Be civil, this is your warning.
 
D L X
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Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:59 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
D L X wrote:
madpropsyo wrote:
Why in the world would you take an autistic 3 year old who can't wear a mask on a flight right now anyway? How utterly irresponsible and dangerous for your child, let alone others. It's absolutely right that she was removed.

You have absolutely no idea why this family chose to fly. For all you know, they could be going to treatment, or a funeral. Don't ever question someone's motives when you don't know.

Not don't know..... don't CARE.

No matter what their issue was, it isn't worth risking the lives of 100+ others, especially crew who have no choice but to deal with them.

You read my entire post, you saw that I agree that the child should have been removed, and you still posted this selective quote, misrepresenting what I said. You have utterly no idea that these parents were intending to risk the lives of others. You don't even know that they thought the kid wouldn't wear a mask. Get off your high horse.
 
WorldFlier
Posts: 440
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Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:55 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
737max8 wrote:

Actually, the articles states they were visiting family.


<8 hour drive from Midland, TX to Houston TX. They weren't trying to get from Midland to Miami, FL.



You never been to Texas huh? If people could fly from Galveston to Houston, they would.

Hell, people don't want to drive San Antonio to Houston...
 
WorldFlier
Posts: 440
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:10 pm

Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:58 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
lowfareair wrote:
madpropsyo wrote:

No, I'm still going to question it thanks. You don't have an inalienable right to escape scrutiny because you "might" have a good reason to be doing something. There are many other means of travel available and during a pandemic to take a child onto public transportation knowing full well that they can't wear a mask is terribly irresponsible regardless of the reason for travel.


This is the correct answer. If the child was unable to wear clothes without freaking out, would anyone say that child still had a right to be on that airplane naked?


Hooray for false equivalence! I knew we'd get there - and only 14 posts. That, and the lack of empathy for parents in a challenging situation - so predictable.

There are exceptions for medical requirements peppered through the typical Contract of Carriage. These rights are established in Federal law. (Yes, people with autism have rights to traveI without undue burden.) I expect a carrier that tries to pursue the No mask - No travel - No exceptions policy in court will lose. I bet they lack the balls to try. They will settle out of court discreetly so the scope of their unlawful bullying won't be confirmed in court.


I am empathetic to the immuno-compromised individual that the "autistic" child can infect. So many children "on the spectrum" are actually just parenting problems. I was on the spectrum. I had a obsession and nearly perfect memorization of music, dog breeds, and world war 2 as a child.

No mask. No fly.
 
Miamiairport
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Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:13 pm

If getting the child to wear a mask was going to be a problem they should have drove. Air travel is not a guaranteed right. There are rules and you don't get to choose which rules you follow based upon the your desires and the desire of your family. And this comes from someone that has done enough investigation to know that masks and social distancing are not proven to be 100% effective. They are a "theory." I personally think TSA is a joke but I do what TSA wants if I want to fly. Plain and simple.
 
D L X
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Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:52 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
If getting the child to wear a mask was going to be a problem they should have drove.

You know, it's quite likely that these parents did not realize it was going to be a problem until they got on the plane. (Also, these tickets might have been purchased before anyone had ever heard of a COVID-19 before.

The airline made the right call, but I don't get why people are castigating the parents here.
 
bennett123
Posts: 10886
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Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Mon Aug 17, 2020 7:01 pm

Might have been an idea to try him with a face covering before leaving home.

Was this done?.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Mon Aug 17, 2020 7:32 pm

WorldFlier wrote:

You never been to Texas huh?


Yes, and I avoid it whenever possible.

WorldFlier wrote:

Hell, people don't want to drive San Antonio to Houston...


That's on them then.
 
ScottB
Posts: 7595
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Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:41 pm

WorldFlier wrote:
You never been to Texas huh? If people could fly from Galveston to Houston, they would.

Hell, people don't want to drive San Antonio to Houston...


Clearly you haven't been to Texas. Air service from GLS to IAH ended about 40 years ago. The short-haul markets aren't anything like they used to be with TSA security theater, highway improvements, and rural 75 mph speed limits. In 1997, the largest air travel market from Houston (HOU/IAH/EFD) by a country mile was DAL/DFW. At nearly 2300 PDEW, it was over twice the size of the #2 market, MSY. In 2019, the largest market from Houston was NYC and DAL/DFW had dropped to fifth at just under 1300 PDEW. MSY had dropped to #13 at about two-thirds the 1997 traffic. AUS was the #8 market in 1997 from Houston with 500 PDEW. Last year, AUS squeaked into the top 50 (at #48) with about 120 PDEW.

Now... Midland to Houston is indeed a long, boring drive and as such it punches pretty high -- there's more O&D traffic from Houston to Midland than there is to Charlotte or Tampa. That's partly driven by the oil industry, too.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:30 am

The family is in the wrong.

The rule is wrong too, though. 3 years old aren't likely to transmit the virus even if infected. On Air France the mask wouldn't have been mandatory :

It is mandatory for children aged 11 and above to wear a face mask, and recommended that children aged between 3 and 11 wear one. Face masks are not recommended for children aged 3 or below.

Children should be reminded to wash their hands properly and to keep their distance from adults and other children.
 
WorldFlier
Posts: 440
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:10 pm

Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:59 pm

ScottB wrote:
WorldFlier wrote:
You never been to Texas huh? If people could fly from Galveston to Houston, they would.

Hell, people don't want to drive San Antonio to Houston...


Clearly you haven't been to Texas. Air service from GLS to IAH ended about 40 years ago. The short-haul markets aren't anything like they used to be with TSA security theater, highway improvements, and rural 75 mph speed limits. In 1997, the largest air travel market from Houston (HOU/IAH/EFD) by a country mile was DAL/DFW. At nearly 2300 PDEW, it was over twice the size of the #2 market, MSY. In 2019, the largest market from Houston was NYC and DAL/DFW had dropped to fifth at just under 1300 PDEW. MSY had dropped to #13 at about two-thirds the 1997 traffic. AUS was the #8 market in 1997 from Houston with 500 PDEW. Last year, AUS squeaked into the top 50 (at #48) with about 120 PDEW.

Now... Midland to Houston is indeed a long, boring drive and as such it punches pretty high -- there's more O&D traffic from Houston to Midland than there is to Charlotte or Tampa. That's partly driven by the oil industry, too.


I lived in Texas for over a decade. I realize that intra-state air travel is down for the reasons you mentioned, but it was a humorous point about Texans loathing to drive and would fly if they could (they also won't walk 2 blocks, they'll hop in their cars).
 
ScottB
Posts: 7595
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Tue Aug 18, 2020 3:38 pm

WorldFlier wrote:
it was a humorous point about Texans loathing to drive and would fly if they could (they also won't walk 2 blocks, they'll hop in their cars).


Well, thing is, Texans don't hate to drive -- that's why they do seem to drive rather than walking two blocks.

Houston-to-Austin used to be a really, really crummy drive. The Northwest Freeway ended somewhere near W 43rd St in Houston and then it was a 200-mile drive on US 290 through every small town on the way, each with a small-town cop with a radar gun. Or you could take I-10 to Columbus and then SH 71 through La Grange (famous for the Chicken Ranch) and Bastrop -- also 2 lanes until the state started upgrading it in the 1980s. You could show up at Hobby 15 minutes before your flight, be at Mueller 45 minutes later, and in downtown Austin 10-15 minutes after that.

Now the drive is under three hours. When you add in time to/from the airport (and Bergstrom is 10-15 minutes further out of town than Mueller was) and TSA security theater it's usually faster to drive. So almost no one flies it anymore apart from connections. If WN were still reliant on short-haul business travel in Texas they'd be out of business.

Texans just don't want to spend 10 hours in a car doing something like Houston-Midland (you can probably do it in 7 if you've got a lead foot and only stop once at a Buc-ee's). Even then it's not as bad as 40 years ago when the speed limit was still 55, all the radio stations outside the cities were country, and your air conditioner was on the fritz in August.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 9100
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Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Tue Aug 18, 2020 4:10 pm

I wouldn't blame the airline. It is parents responsibility to teach their child. Irrespective of the label, any child would follow a routine. They cannot deal with sudden change.

In an in-person/hybrid school model, kids have to wear the mask for 4-5 hours a day. School districts are asking families to make their kids prepared.
 
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atcsundevil
Moderator
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Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Tue Aug 18, 2020 4:46 pm

The personal attacks need to stop. Post on topic or please move on to a different topic.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 2562
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Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Tue Aug 18, 2020 5:05 pm

Aesma wrote:
The family is in the wrong.

The rule is wrong too, though. 3 years old aren't likely to transmit the virus even if infected. On Air France the mask wouldn't have been mandatory :

It is mandatory for children aged 11 and above to wear a face mask, and recommended that children aged between 3 and 11 wear one. Face masks are not recommended for children aged 3 or below.

Children should be reminded to wash their hands properly and to keep their distance from adults and other children.

Well, even as a French national, I think Air France is wrong on this one: wear the mask.
Kids in pre-kindergarten (around 4) are taught, and are able, to wear the mask all day long at school, with few breaks; so, people can wear it for a few hours.

As far as "3 years old aren't likely to transmit the virus even if infected", please provide source. As we know today, the virus is mainly transmitted by aerosols (droplets of fluids); and 3 year old children don't necessarily know how to properly cough to prevent the spread of disease, or even the proper steps to prevent contamination by properly disposing of bodily fluids (such as snots, drool, etc.). An asymptomatic child is a ticking "chemical" timebomb; why do you think daycare centers are called "disease breeding grounds"?
 
kiowa
Posts: 899
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:37 am

Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Fri Aug 21, 2020 12:44 am

WayexTDI wrote:
Aesma wrote:
The family is in the wrong.

The rule is wrong too, though. 3 years old aren't likely to transmit the virus even if infected. On Air France the mask wouldn't have been mandatory :

It is mandatory for children aged 11 and above to wear a face mask, and recommended that children aged between 3 and 11 wear one. Face masks are not recommended for children aged 3 or below.

Children should be reminded to wash their hands properly and to keep their distance from adults and other children.

Well, even as a French national, I think Air France is wrong on this one: wear the mask.
Kids in pre-kindergarten (around 4) are taught, and are able, to wear the mask all day long at school, with few breaks; so, people can wear it for a few hours.

As far as "3 years old aren't likely to transmit the virus even if infected", please provide source. As we know today, the virus is mainly transmitted by aerosols (droplets of fluids); and 3 year old children don't necessarily know how to properly cough to prevent the spread of disease, or even the proper steps to prevent contamination by properly disposing of bodily fluids (such as snots, drool, etc.). An asymptomatic child is a ticking "chemical" timebomb; why do you think daycare centers are called "disease breeding grounds"?


I know you’re not advocating to ban three-year-olds from flying but do you think there should be a minimum age to fly while this virus is active?
 
kavok
Posts: 997
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Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Fri Aug 21, 2020 1:41 am

kiowa wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
Aesma wrote:
The family is in the wrong.

The rule is wrong too, though. 3 years old aren't likely to transmit the virus even if infected. On Air France the mask wouldn't have been mandatory :


Well, even as a French national, I think Air France is wrong on this one: wear the mask.
Kids in pre-kindergarten (around 4) are taught, and are able, to wear the mask all day long at school, with few breaks; so, people can wear it for a few hours.

As far as "3 years old aren't likely to transmit the virus even if infected", please provide source. As we know today, the virus is mainly transmitted by aerosols (droplets of fluids); and 3 year old children don't necessarily know how to properly cough to prevent the spread of disease, or even the proper steps to prevent contamination by properly disposing of bodily fluids (such as snots, drool, etc.). An asymptomatic child is a ticking "chemical" timebomb; why do you think daycare centers are called "disease breeding grounds"?


I know you’re not advocating to ban three-year-olds from flying but do you think there should be a minimum age to fly while this virus is active?


To me, this is the real question and issue that is getting overlooked. While the Headline story is about an autistic person being denied the ability to fly because of no mask, to me the real story here is that a 3 year old was denied the ability to fly because of no mask (autistic or not).

There is no science that indicates a 2 year old with no mask is less of a transmission threat than a 3 year old with no mask. There are basically two approaches that aren’t arbitrary:
1- No mask, no fly... regardless of age. Thus an airline could argue that any person, at any age, with no mask is a threat... and thus create a deFacto minimum age to fly based on a kids ability to tolerate mask wearing (which obviously infants and many toddlers will not). Or-

2- Young Children who cannot tolerate masks are exempt, masks for everyone else. This gets away from the arbitrary 2-year old cutoff. Because in this case a 3 year old who refused could still fly. Because if you are denying based on the argument that a 3 year old without a mask is a threat... a 2 year old without a mask is also a threat, and the airline is ignoring that. And while you eventually may have to draw a line somewhere, anyone who deals with kids knows that many 3 year olds won’t/can’t wear masks for long periods of time. No science or group of experts will say that 2-year old is the correct place to draw that line.

So again, it either means masks for everyone (and thus no young kids), or masks required except for young kids (who may be 3 or 4) who wont wear them. Everything else is arbitrary.
 
Aptivaboy
Posts: 1005
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Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:12 am

I'm so conflicted over this. On the one hand, airlines have mask rules and passengers must be willing to comply with them. On the other hand, we're talking about a child for whom the Americans With Disabilities Act would apply, and a reasonable accommodation should be made, or at least attempted. I wish I had a perfect solution but I do not. I do believe that Southwest acted a bit too quickly to remove the child.
 
evank516
Posts: 2289
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:22 am

It's not like these mask policies haven't been broadcast on the news or stories on the internet haven't been published. Even if you're not reading airline policies, it's rather common knowledge nowadays. It's an unfortunate situation, but we're in unprecedented times and normal accommodations cannot be made.
 
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CitizenJustin
Posts: 873
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:12 am

Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Fri Aug 21, 2020 4:44 am

CobaltScar wrote:
YYZYYT wrote:
Here in Ontario Canada masks are mandatory pretty well everywhere, but there is an exemption for medical issues which prevent the wearing of a mask. Is that not the case with the US (or is this an airline-based policy)?



The general public is very quick to exploit any loophole, just like we saw with emotional support animals. People were flashing ADA cards and saying for medical reasons they were not wearing a mask, and it was starting to become a joke.

If they exempted a child with autism, you'd just have everyone claiming they were on the autism spectrum and were not putting a mask on.


Yes and unfortunately for them, I’ve seen plenty anti-mask obituaries in the media lately. They’re now six feet under because they refused to follow the simplest thing to protect both themselves and others. One guy continued to post messages on social media until his final breath. If that doesn’t say anything about where we are today, I don’t know what does. Sad state of affairs.
 
twaconnie
Posts: 315
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:18 pm

Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Fri Aug 21, 2020 12:22 pm

Don't want to wear a mask let them ride in the cargo hold. LOL
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 2562
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Fri Aug 21, 2020 2:41 pm

Aptivaboy wrote:
I'm so conflicted over this. On the one hand, airlines have mask rules and passengers must be willing to comply with them. On the other hand, we're talking about a child for whom the Americans With Disabilities Act would apply, and a reasonable accommodation should be made, or at least attempted. I wish I had a perfect solution but I do not. I do believe that Southwest acted a bit too quickly to remove the child.

It's been repeated over and over again that the ADA does not apply to airlines.
 
Aptivaboy
Posts: 1005
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:32 pm

Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:34 pm

It's been repeated over and over again that the ADA does not apply to airlines.


Actually, it does in certain specific areas, like allowing access to an aircraft. Airlines are required to provide or allow some form of wheelchair access to the airplane, for example. The question then arises whether wearing a mask as a prerequisite to flying represents access under the law? That's a question or interpretation that the lawyers would have to argue.

The Air Carrier Access Act is more applicable, and specifically enjoins airlines from discriminating against the mentally and physically disabled. As the Department of Transportation's own website states, "The Air Carrier Access Act (ACAA) is a law that makes it illegal for airlines to discriminate against passengers because of their disability. The Department of Transportation is responsible for enforcing the ACAA, which applies to all flights to, from, or within the United States." Here, the question would be whether the mask mandate overrides or conflicts with the ACAA's anti-discrimination laws. Again, a question for the lawyers.

But, to your original point I was correct in stating that the ADA does, in fact, apply to airlines, just in more limited ways.

Have a great day, everyone, and stay safe.

Bob
 
nws2002
Posts: 971
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:04 pm

Re: Southwest removes autistic child due to mask issue

Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:20 pm

Aptivaboy wrote:
It's been repeated over and over again that the ADA does not apply to airlines.


Actually, it does in certain specific areas, like allowing access to an aircraft. Airlines are required to provide or allow some form of wheelchair access to the airplane, for example. The question then arises whether wearing a mask as a prerequisite to flying represents access under the law? That's a question or interpretation that the lawyers would have to argue.

The Air Carrier Access Act is more applicable, and specifically enjoins airlines from discriminating against the mentally and physically disabled. As the Department of Transportation's own website states, "The Air Carrier Access Act (ACAA) is a law that makes it illegal for airlines to discriminate against passengers because of their disability. The Department of Transportation is responsible for enforcing the ACAA, which applies to all flights to, from, or within the United States." Here, the question would be whether the mask mandate overrides or conflicts with the ACAA's anti-discrimination laws. Again, a question for the lawyers.

But, to your original point I was correct in stating that the ADA does, in fact, apply to airlines, just in more limited ways.

Have a great day, everyone, and stay safe.

Bob


The ACAA allows airlines to deny boarding to any passenger with a disability if that passenger poses a safety threat to the flight. IANAL, but in this case I would imagine that Southwest (and the other US carriers) have decided that passengers who are unable or unwilling to wear a mask meet this criteria. They didn't deny boarding because he was autistic, they denied boarding because he was unable to wear a mask. That is an important distinction to DOT for ACAA complaints. You can't use the disability as a reason to deny travel.

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