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klm617
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Re: Confirmed AA service suspensions

Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:24 pm

As I predicted that AZO would be the only station in Michigan losing service.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
Boof02671
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Re: Confirmed AA service suspensions

Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:38 pm

American is cutting service to these airports: Del Rio, Texas; Dubuque, Iowa; Florence, South Carolina; Greenville, North Carolina; Huntington, West Virginia; Joplin, Missouri; Kalamazoo/Battle Creek, Michigan; Lake Charles, Louisiana; New Haven, Connecticut; New Windsor, New York; Roswell, New Mexico; Sioux City, Iowa; Springfield, Illinois; Stillwater, Oklahoma; and Williamsport, Pennsylvania.
 
freakyrat
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Re: Confirmed AA service suspensions

Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:42 pm

klm617 wrote:
As I predicted that AZO would be the only station in Michigan losing service.


AZO passengers can also use SBN as we have AA twice daily service to DFW and CLT.
 
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enilria
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Re: REPORT: American to drop routes to "two dozen" small/medium sized cities with no new aid

Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:53 pm

enilria wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
AA suspends 15 markets from October 7 to November 3:

Del Rio, Texas
Dubuque, Iowa
Florence, S.C.
Greenville, N.C.
Huntington, W.Va.
Joplin, Mo.
Kalamazoo/Battle Creek, Mich.
Lake Charles, La.
New Haven, Conn.
New Windsor, N.Y.
Roswell, N.M.
Sioux City, Iowa
Springfield, Ill.
Stillwater, Okla.
Williamsport, Pa.

https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2 ... fault.aspx

Those names are weird. Here are the codes.



Del Rio, Texas DRT
Dubuque, Iowa DBQ
Florence, S.C. FLO
Greenville, N.C. PGV
Huntington, W.Va. HTS
Joplin, Mo. JLN
Kalamazoo/Battle Creek, Mich. AZO
Lake Charles, La. LCH
New Haven, Conn. HVN
New Windsor, N.Y. SWF
Roswell, N.M. ROW
Sioux City, Iowa SUX
Springfield, Ill. SPI
Stillwater, Okla. SWO
Williamsport, Pa. IPT

SWO/DRT/DBQ/IPT/FLO/PGV/JLN/HVN/ROW lose ALL current air service leaving them unserved.
 
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NWAESC
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Re: Confirmed AA service suspensions

Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:55 pm

Why do that if GRR and LAN are closer?
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
joeblow10
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Re: Confirmed AA service suspensions

Thu Aug 20, 2020 1:02 pm

Very few surprises to me on that list - and frankly, surprised it’s not larger.

ROW is a bit surprising - no other service from anyone else, and it’s 3 hours from ABQ, 2 hours from dinky HOB. Wouldn’t be shocked if the govt has to step in and make this EAS again. Same with DRT - unless you fancy a drive into Mexico to catch your plane.
Last edited by joeblow10 on Thu Aug 20, 2020 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: Confirmed AA service suspensions

Thu Aug 20, 2020 1:19 pm

joeblow10 wrote:
Very few surprises to me on that list - and frankly, surprised it’s not larger.

ROW is a bit surprising - no other service from anyone else, and it’s 3 hours from ABQ, 2 hours from dinky HOB. Wouldn’t be shocked if the govt has to step in and make this EAS again. Same with DRT - unless you fancy a drive into Mexico to catch your plane.


Most of these cities would be eligible for EAS, if they're left with no service.
From my cold, dead hands
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Confirmed AA service suspensions

Thu Aug 20, 2020 1:34 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
joeblow10 wrote:
Very few surprises to me on that list - and frankly, surprised it’s not larger.

ROW is a bit surprising - no other service from anyone else, and it’s 3 hours from ABQ, 2 hours from dinky HOB. Wouldn’t be shocked if the govt has to step in and make this EAS again. Same with DRT - unless you fancy a drive into Mexico to catch your plane.


Most of these cities would be eligible for EAS, if they're left with no service.


Williamsport (IPT) is one. Whether the infrequent prop beats the drive to SCE is a question I would have to ask myself for every trip.
 
ScottB
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Re: REPORT: American to drop routes to "two dozen" small/medium sized cities with no new aid

Thu Aug 20, 2020 1:41 pm

enilria wrote:
Those names are weird. Here are the codes.

New Windsor, N.Y. SWF


This is really the only weird one -- and I don't really understand why they'd call it that apart from the entrance to the airport and terminal being in the Town of New Windsor. If you try to find "New Windsor" on aa.com it doesn't work (but "Stewart" and "Newburgh" do). Then again, AA still refers to GSP as "Greer." (The airport is indeed in Greer, not Greenville or Spartanburg.) Guess they'll call AVP "Avoca" when they close it.
 
enplaned
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Re: REPORT: American to drop routes to "two dozen" small/medium sized cities with no new aid

Thu Aug 20, 2020 1:42 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
A little OT but something like only 10% of workers in NYC when polled plan on returning to work in the city. This spells disaster for the PA and MTA, not to mention just about every other facet of NYC. Watching the brainless mayor you'd never know that such an impending disaster is in the waiting.

I have to wonder if airports like SWF/ISP would see traffice pick up as more people work from home and avoid the city for any reasons.


Against that, you have Amazon saying it expects to return to an office environment and picking up more real estate in cities around the country, including adding 2000 more jobs in NYC.

I do expect overall a noticeable reduction in demand for traditional commercial real estate. I don't expect that traditional working is about to vanish entirely or even mostly. But I do think there will be a significant reduction.
 
enplaned
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Re: REPORT: American to drop routes to "two dozen" small/medium sized cities with no new aid

Thu Aug 20, 2020 1:45 pm

enilria wrote:
enilria wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
AA suspends 15 markets from October 7 to November 3:

Del Rio, Texas
Dubuque, Iowa
Florence, S.C.
Greenville, N.C.
Huntington, W.Va.
Joplin, Mo.
Kalamazoo/Battle Creek, Mich.
Lake Charles, La.
New Haven, Conn.
New Windsor, N.Y.
Roswell, N.M.
Sioux City, Iowa
Springfield, Ill.
Stillwater, Okla.
Williamsport, Pa.

https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2 ... fault.aspx

Those names are weird. Here are the codes.



Del Rio, Texas DRT
Dubuque, Iowa DBQ
Florence, S.C. FLO
Greenville, N.C. PGV
Huntington, W.Va. HTS
Joplin, Mo. JLN
Kalamazoo/Battle Creek, Mich. AZO
Lake Charles, La. LCH
New Haven, Conn. HVN
New Windsor, N.Y. SWF
Roswell, N.M. ROW
Sioux City, Iowa SUX
Springfield, Ill. SPI
Stillwater, Okla. SWO
Williamsport, Pa. IPT

SWO/DRT/DBQ/IPT/FLO/PGV/JLN/HVN/ROW lose ALL current air service leaving them unserved.


There's little doubt this was designed to maximize political impact. American needs a second CARES Act grant.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: REPORT: American to drop routes to "two dozen" small/medium sized cities with no new aid

Thu Aug 20, 2020 1:55 pm

enplaned wrote:

There's little doubt this was designed to maximize political impact. American needs a second CARES Act grant.


So you don't acknowledge that those were thin, weak markets even before COVID? IPT was getting 2x daily to PHL (not even seven days a week IIRC), down from 10x PIT/PHL ~30 years ago. Plot out passenger demand for some of those single-carrier airports against nationwide rate of growth for the last two decades. Add in E145/CR2 retirements. Several of these markets were doomed to be toast - it was just a matter of when.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: REPORT: American to drop routes to "two dozen" small/medium sized cities with no new aid

Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:14 pm

Would love to see UA pick up DRT.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
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enilria
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Re: REPORT: American to drop routes to "two dozen" small/medium sized cities with no new aid

Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:16 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
enplaned wrote:

There's little doubt this was designed to maximize political impact. American needs a second CARES Act grant.


So you don't acknowledge that those were thin, weak markets even before COVID? IPT was getting 2x daily to PHL (not even seven days a week IIRC), down from 10x PIT/PHL ~30 years ago. Plot out passenger demand for some of those single-carrier airports against nationwide rate of growth for the last two decades. Add in E145/CR2 retirements. Several of these markets were doomed to be toast - it was just a matter of when.

I think it's both. These were the weakest, but lets be honest, here. To say there are no bookings for October is laughable. Of course there are no bookings. There are no bookings for anything in October. Almost all bookings are coming within 2 weeks according to what I hear. So, we are 8 weeks from the "average" day in October. If they were really responding to no bookings they would likely drop them with 2 weeks notice. That's commonplace now.
 
bigb
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Re: UPDATE: AA Goes Forward with Suspending Service to 15 Small Airports in October

Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:45 pm

Greenville doesn’t surprise me one bit. Close to RDU and CLT for this folks to drive.
 
FSDan
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Re: REPORT: American to drop routes to "two dozen" small/medium sized cities with no new aid

Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:00 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
Would love to see UA pick up DRT.


If they did, it would be a resumption of an old CO Express route! Given their recent trend of adding service to smaller cities from their major hubs, I wouldn't be surprised, although TX definitely hasn't gotten too much of the love so far.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
as739x
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Re: UPDATE: AA Goes Forward with Suspending Service to 15 Small Airports in October

Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:01 pm

Oh no, Roswell !! How to they get the crews over to pick up on the mainline planes from the desert? :)
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
jholio
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Re: Confirmed AA service suspensions

Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:07 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
American is cutting service to these airports: Del Rio, Texas; Dubuque, Iowa; Florence, South Carolina; Greenville, North Carolina; Huntington, West Virginia; Joplin, Missouri; Kalamazoo/Battle Creek, Michigan; Lake Charles, Louisiana; New Haven, Connecticut; New Windsor, New York; Roswell, New Mexico; Sioux City, Iowa; Springfield, Illinois; Stillwater, Oklahoma; and Williamsport, Pennsylvania.


Stillwater is not surprising at all. That is a once daily EMB-140 flight that relies on college sport and college business traffic, neither of which are going to happen this school year. Stillwater has a bus connection to Tulsa and most students are from OKC or Tulsa anyways and would drive back to those cities to fly.
 
AZORMP
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Re: Confirmed AA service suspensions

Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:15 pm

freakyrat wrote:
klm617 wrote:
As I predicted that AZO would be the only station in Michigan losing service.


AZO passengers can also use SBN as we have AA twice daily service to DFW and CLT.



Or just fly Delta...still 3x a day out of AZO and so for not scheduled to change after October 1. They’ve been maxing out their loads recently too.
Kalamazoo’s Radio Man

The RJ2 sucks.
 
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klm617
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Re: Confirmed AA service suspensions

Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:22 pm

freakyrat wrote:
klm617 wrote:
As I predicted that AZO would be the only station in Michigan losing service.


AZO passengers can also use SBN as we have AA twice daily service to DFW and CLT.


Or GRR which is much closer and pretty well served at this point. I think AZO enplanements have suffered a lot due to the explosive growth at GRR. Especially by the LCCs.
Last edited by klm617 on Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:27 pm, edited 4 times in total.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
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Re: UPDATE: AA Goes Forward with Suspending Service to 15 Small Airports in October

Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:22 pm

It will be interesting to see if this has any political impact, especially given the number of airports that will be without any commercial service if there's no second CARES Act. Politicians do love their local airports.

Isn't there also a maintenance facility in ROW? Not that it's enough reason to continue service.

bigb wrote:
Greenville doesn’t surprise me one bit. Close to RDU and CLT for this folks to drive.


As noted previously, Greenville NC is pretty far from CLT (about 4 hours) and you'll drive right past RDU.
 
KCaviator
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Re: UPDATE: AA Goes Forward with Suspending Service to 15 Small Airports in October

Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:32 pm

DBQ has a beautiful new terminal. Sad to see.
 
AWACSooner
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Re: Confirmed AA service suspensions

Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:45 pm

jholio wrote:

Stillwater is not surprising at all. That is a once daily EMB-140 flight that relies on college sport and college business traffic, neither of which are going to happen this school year. Stillwater has a bus connection to Tulsa and most students are from OKC or Tulsa anyways and would drive back to those cities to fly.


I'm surprised they still serve BOTH Lawton and Wichita Falls...30 miles apart...both see about 2x daily on ERD/ER4 to DFW right now, that's it. I get the military traffic, but this one seems ripe for consolidation to one airport over the other.
 
drdisque
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Re: UPDATE: AA Goes Forward with Suspending Service to 15 Small Airports in October

Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:52 pm

Due to changes in EAS law, no new airports are currently allowed to join EAS.

As such, all of these airports losing all service will not be getting EAS.

I can see UA and/or OO kicking the tires on getting an incentive to go to DRT, ROW, DBQ, JLN and maybe HVN

DRT would be to IAH, ROW would be to DEN, JLN would be to DEN or IAH, and HVN would be to IAD. Maybe HTS to ORD or IAD (but I don't think that's likely).

DL will probably re-instate AZO-MSP on an accelerated schedule and UA will likely bring back AZO-ORD.

I don't see much interest from UA or DL in IPT, FLO, SWO, or PGV even though DL has served FLO and PGV from ATL in the past.
 
airlineworker
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Re: REPORT: American to drop routes to "two dozen" small/medium sized cities with no new aid

Thu Aug 20, 2020 4:08 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
enplaned wrote:

There's little doubt this was designed to maximize political impact. American needs a second CARES Act grant.


So you don't acknowledge that those were thin, weak markets even before COVID? IPT was getting 2x daily to PHL (not even seven days a week IIRC), down from 10x PIT/PHL ~30 years ago. Plot out passenger demand for some of those single-carrier airports against nationwide rate of growth for the last two decades. Add in E145/CR2 retirements. Several of these markets were doomed to be toast - it was just a matter of when.


The flights I took to and from HVN had high load factors, I made one from HVN-PHL and took the last seat. I was hoping that the switch from PHL to CLT would work out better. I monitored the flights from BDL to PHL and the loads were comparable to HVN's, whereas the BDL flights were all on mainline planes and had much higher load factors.
AA started at HVN with CRJ-200's, then CRJ-700's and finally E-175's.
 
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alancostello
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Re: Confirmed AA service suspensions

Thu Aug 20, 2020 4:18 pm

klm617 wrote:
freakyrat wrote:
klm617 wrote:
As I predicted that AZO would be the only station in Michigan losing service.


AZO passengers can also use SBN as we have AA twice daily service to DFW and CLT.


Or GRR which is much closer and pretty well served at this point. I think AZO enplanements have suffered a lot due to the explosive growth at GRR. Especially by the LCCs.


Much closer for those north of Kalamazoo/Battle Creek, but most people in South/South-West MI and St. Joseph are gonna be much closer to SBN.
 
Chuska
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Re: UPDATE: AA Goes Forward with Suspending Service to 15 Small Airports in October

Thu Aug 20, 2020 4:26 pm

Can't believe ROW is on the list. They have no other air service and its a 3 hour drive to LBB or ABQ. At least all the other cities are within 60 to 90 minutes of another city that AA serves. And like AS739x said, AA does so much internal work there, they're ferrying out 4 MAX's to TUL today for example. AA says the service suspension is just for one month at this point, hopefully it wont go any longer.
 
enplaned
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Re: REPORT: American to drop routes to "two dozen" small/medium sized cities with no new aid

Thu Aug 20, 2020 4:47 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
enplaned wrote:

There's little doubt this was designed to maximize political impact. American needs a second CARES Act grant.


So you don't acknowledge that those were thin, weak markets even before COVID? IPT was getting 2x daily to PHL (not even seven days a week IIRC), down from 10x PIT/PHL ~30 years ago. Plot out passenger demand for some of those single-carrier airports against nationwide rate of growth for the last two decades. Add in E145/CR2 retirements. Several of these markets were doomed to be toast - it was just a matter of when.


No doubt they were thin. But the way this was rolled out makes it pretty clear it's been maximized for political impact. There's no essential conflict between there being good underlying reasons and it being rolled out in a way to maximize political impact. As 1970s SNL would put it, it's both a dessert topping and a floor wax.

First, American leaked a while ago that up to two dozen markets are in danger. You think that was anything other than intentional? That immediately makes every small airport that American serves go on red alert. Secondly, my guess is there are probably 30 odd different airports that could have been picked - these ones were (other than two in Iowa) spread across a state per city to maximize the number of states affected. Thirdly, the fact that they said service was only suspended for a month, initially - this is intentionally "cutting the tail off the dog an inch at a time". Fourthly, picking cities where American is the last remaining service. They're pressing every button they can.

Everything is calculated to have maximum political impact. Yes, for sure there's substance, but American is desperate for Congress to stop them from following thru, so they want to make this as painful to as many people in Congress (especially the Senate) as possible. It's a field day for lobbyists. Doug Parker is doing everything he can to get Congress from stopping him from making economically-responsible decisions.
 
enplaned
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Re: Confirmed AA service suspensions

Thu Aug 20, 2020 4:50 pm

AWACSooner wrote:
jholio wrote:

Stillwater is not surprising at all. That is a once daily EMB-140 flight that relies on college sport and college business traffic, neither of which are going to happen this school year. Stillwater has a bus connection to Tulsa and most students are from OKC or Tulsa anyways and would drive back to those cities to fly.


I'm surprised they still serve BOTH Lawton and Wichita Falls...30 miles apart...both see about 2x daily on ERD/ER4 to DFW right now, that's it. I get the military traffic, but this one seems ripe for consolidation to one airport over the other.


There are no doubt shoes yet to drop. But for now, the list already included one from Texas and one from Oklahoma. When American needs to further up the ante, it may well drop one or both of Lawton and Wichita Falls. This is being choreographed, and it's not yet time for the staged sacrifice of another Texas or Oklahoma point.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: Confirmed AA service suspensions

Thu Aug 20, 2020 4:55 pm

enplaned wrote:
AWACSooner wrote:
jholio wrote:

Stillwater is not surprising at all. That is a once daily EMB-140 flight that relies on college sport and college business traffic, neither of which are going to happen this school year. Stillwater has a bus connection to Tulsa and most students are from OKC or Tulsa anyways and would drive back to those cities to fly.


I'm surprised they still serve BOTH Lawton and Wichita Falls...30 miles apart...both see about 2x daily on ERD/ER4 to DFW right now, that's it. I get the military traffic, but this one seems ripe for consolidation to one airport over the other.


There are no doubt shoes yet to drop. But for now, the list already included one from Texas and one from Oklahoma. When American needs to further up the ante, it may well drop one or both of Lawton and Wichita Falls. This is being choreographed, and it's not yet time for the staged sacrifice of another Texas or Oklahoma point.


I will give AA this, they were expanding like crazy before the pandemic. They were taking a lot of chances on smaller markets in the US. I guess its no surprise some didnt work.

They wont drop LAW for sure. Too much military traffic. SPS may pretty thin as it is, but AA kept all small Texas markets within a two hour drive of DFW (SPS, ACT, GGG, and TYR). Those would have been the ones I thought would go.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
Scoots71
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Re: UPDATE: AA Goes Forward with Suspending Service to 15 Small Airports in October

Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:00 pm

FLO losing service doesn't really surprise me (though it would make more sense for an airline like DL to serve it).

2 hour (107 mi) drive to CHS, 120 mi to CLT (where their only flight was to), 96 mi to CAE, and 67 mi to MYR
 
AZORMP
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Re: Confirmed AA service suspensions

Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:00 pm

klm617 wrote:
freakyrat wrote:
klm617 wrote:
As I predicted that AZO would be the only station in Michigan losing service.


AZO passengers can also use SBN as we have AA twice daily service to DFW and CLT.


Or GRR which is much closer and pretty well served at this point. I think AZO enplanements have suffered a lot due to the explosive growth at GRR. Especially by the LCCs.


AZO’s bread and butter was never leisure travel; it was the solid business travel base from Stryker, Pfizer, Zoetis, and Kellogg that allowed Delta to fly 70 and 76 seat jets regularly pre Covid. The October schedule (pre-Covid) shows 3 70-seaters for the peak time flights and then 50-seaters for the off-peak flights. Total: 7 departures a day.

WMU and K College students traveling for breaks helped boost the numbers even higher.

Sad to see American go, even if it’s just temporary. They have some fine people working AZO.
Kalamazoo’s Radio Man

The RJ2 sucks.
 
drdisque
Topic Author
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Re: UPDATE: AA Goes Forward with Suspending Service to 15 Small Airports in October

Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:08 pm

Scoots71 wrote:
FLO losing service doesn't really surprise me (though it would make more sense for an airline like DL to serve it).

2 hour (107 mi) drive to CHS, 120 mi to CLT (where their only flight was to), 96 mi to CAE, and 67 mi to MYR


DL actually dropped FLO because some aggressive pricing that AA implemented in FLO (I believe it involved matching MYR fares for high traffic O&Ds). Rather than play AA's game DL just dropped the market.
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: UPDATE: AA Goes Forward with Suspending Service to 15 Small Airports in October

Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:10 pm

drdisque wrote:
Due to changes in EAS law, no new airports are currently allowed to join EAS.

As such, all of these airports losing all service will not be getting EAS.

I can see UA and/or OO kicking the tires on getting an incentive to go to DRT, ROW, DBQ, JLN and maybe HVN

DRT would be to IAH, ROW would be to DEN, JLN would be to DEN or IAH, and HVN would be to IAD. Maybe HTS to ORD or IAD (but I don't think that's likely).

DL will probably re-instate AZO-MSP on an accelerated schedule and UA will likely bring back AZO-ORD.

I don't see much interest from UA or DL in IPT, FLO, SWO, or PGV even though DL has served FLO and PGV from ATL in the past.


What law change? Perhaps I've missed it, but I don't remember a law change about it.
From my cold, dead hands
 
777Mech
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Re: Confirmed AA service suspensions

Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:12 pm

AWACSooner wrote:
jholio wrote:

Stillwater is not surprising at all. That is a once daily EMB-140 flight that relies on college sport and college business traffic, neither of which are going to happen this school year. Stillwater has a bus connection to Tulsa and most students are from OKC or Tulsa anyways and would drive back to those cities to fly.


I'm surprised they still serve BOTH Lawton and Wichita Falls...30 miles apart...both see about 2x daily on ERD/ER4 to DFW right now, that's it. I get the military traffic, but this one seems ripe for consolidation to one airport over the other.


I was a frequent flier to SPS with the Air Force doing training, and what AA charged the government was insane, and every flight was packed full. I imagine Lawton would be the same way as they also do training. Those EMBs had to be at MTOW everytime with all the gear that was getting thrown on.
 
drdisque
Topic Author
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Re: UPDATE: AA Goes Forward with Suspending Service to 15 Small Airports in October

Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:14 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
drdisque wrote:
Due to changes in EAS law, no new airports are currently allowed to join EAS.

As such, all of these airports losing all service will not be getting EAS.

I can see UA and/or OO kicking the tires on getting an incentive to go to DRT, ROW, DBQ, JLN and maybe HVN

DRT would be to IAH, ROW would be to DEN, JLN would be to DEN or IAH, and HVN would be to IAD. Maybe HTS to ORD or IAD (but I don't think that's likely).

DL will probably re-instate AZO-MSP on an accelerated schedule and UA will likely bring back AZO-ORD.

I don't see much interest from UA or DL in IPT, FLO, SWO, or PGV even though DL has served FLO and PGV from ATL in the past.


What law change? Perhaps I've missed it, but I don't remember a law change about it.


It was included in the The FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 and went into effect October 1, 2012. Any airport outside of Alaska that lost all unsubsidized service after that date could not enter EAS without specific congressional exception. This is also that law that tightened the passengers per day and subsidy per passenger requirements.
 
WaywardMemphian
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Re: UPDATE: AA Goes Forward with Suspending Service to 15 Small Airports in October

Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:25 pm

Joplin has Springfield , Tulsa and Northwest Arkansas airports nearby.

Hell then there's FSM but AA dominates that 95k enplanments per year airport with the nice bathroom.
 
KCaviator
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Re: UPDATE: AA Goes Forward with Suspending Service to 15 Small Airports in October

Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:34 pm

WaywardMemphian wrote:
Joplin has Springfield , Tulsa and Northwest Arkansas airports nearby.

Hell then there's FSM but AA dominates that 95k enplanments per year airport with the nice bathroom.


Joplin is EAS. How are they dropping this?

https://www.transportation.gov/sites/do ... 2020_0.pdf
 
drdisque
Topic Author
Posts: 1356
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:57 am

Re: UPDATE: AA Goes Forward with Suspending Service to 15 Small Airports in October

Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:45 pm

JLN exited the EAS program in 2019.

Whoever updates that list must've missed the memo:

https://downloads.regulations.gov/DOT-O ... ment_1.pdf
 
freakyrat
Posts: 2078
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:04 pm

Re: Confirmed AA service suspensions

Thu Aug 20, 2020 6:05 pm

alancostello wrote:
klm617 wrote:
freakyrat wrote:

AZO passengers can also use SBN as we have AA twice daily service to DFW and CLT.


Or GRR which is much closer and pretty well served at this point. I think AZO enplanements have suffered a lot due to the explosive growth at GRR. Especially by the LCCs.


Much closer for those north of Kalamazoo/Battle Creek, but most people in South/South-West MI and St. Joseph are gonna be much closer to SBN.


SBN loads are picking up and it is a maintenance hub for Skywest. They service their fleet from Delta Connection, American Eagle and United Express and can service any of the CRJ models.
 
freakyrat
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Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:04 pm

Re: Confirmed AA service suspensions

Thu Aug 20, 2020 6:15 pm

AZORMP wrote:
klm617 wrote:
freakyrat wrote:

AZO passengers can also use SBN as we have AA twice daily service to DFW and CLT.


Or GRR which is much closer and pretty well served at this point. I think AZO enplanements have suffered a lot due to the explosive growth at GRR. Especially by the LCCs.


AZO’s bread and butter was never leisure travel; it was the solid business travel base from Stryker, Pfizer, Zoetis, and Kellogg that allowed Delta to fly 70 and 76 seat jets regularly pre Covid. The October schedule (pre-Covid) shows 3 70-seaters for the peak time flights and then 50-seaters for the off-peak flights. Total: 7 departures a day.

WMU and K College students traveling for breaks helped boost the numbers even higher.

Sad to see American go, even if it’s just temporary. They have some fine people working AZO.


DL appears also to be bringing back AZO-MSP and SBN-MSP twice daily in October
 
DiamondFlyer
Posts: 3413
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 pm

Re: Confirmed AA service suspensions

Thu Aug 20, 2020 6:16 pm

freakyrat wrote:
alancostello wrote:
klm617 wrote:

Or GRR which is much closer and pretty well served at this point. I think AZO enplanements have suffered a lot due to the explosive growth at GRR. Especially by the LCCs.


Much closer for those north of Kalamazoo/Battle Creek, but most people in South/South-West MI and St. Joseph are gonna be much closer to SBN.


SBN loads are picking up and it is a maintenance hub for Skywest. They service their fleet from Delta Connection, American Eagle and United Express and can service any of the CRJ models.


Sure, but who cares about OO? You're obvious bias is showing, as everything you post is somehow related to Skyworst. Nobody from AZO is driving to SBN, they'll drive to GRR, or all the way to the hub in DTW or ORD.
From my cold, dead hands
 
masseybrown
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Re: UPDATE: AA Goes Forward with Suspending Service to 15 Small Airports in October

Thu Aug 20, 2020 6:32 pm

Fifteen cities in fourteen states. Bingo! Now there are 28 senators supporting additional govt. aid to airlines.
 
capejet
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Re: UPDATE: AA Goes Forward with Suspending Service to 15 Small Airports in October

Thu Aug 20, 2020 6:39 pm

Are these suspensions all for one month? Is there a chance some will be permanent?
 
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klm617
Posts: 5248
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Re: Confirmed AA service suspensions

Thu Aug 20, 2020 6:44 pm

AZORMP wrote:
klm617 wrote:
freakyrat wrote:

AZO passengers can also use SBN as we have AA twice daily service to DFW and CLT.


Or GRR which is much closer and pretty well served at this point. I think AZO enplanements have suffered a lot due to the explosive growth at GRR. Especially by the LCCs.


AZO’s bread and butter was never leisure travel; it was the solid business travel base from Stryker, Pfizer, Zoetis, and Kellogg that allowed Delta to fly 70 and 76 seat jets regularly pre Covid. The October schedule (pre-Covid) shows 3 70-seaters for the peak time flights and then 50-seaters for the off-peak flights. Total: 7 departures a day.

WMU and K College students traveling for breaks helped boost the numbers even higher.

Sad to see American go, even if it’s just temporary. They have some fine people working AZO.


While that may be true I am sure that before GRR got so much LCC service that those people who lived in the area of AZO were not driving up to GRR to start and end their trips. I am 100% sure that those flights at GRR and impacted AZO in a negative way. I'm talking about in the 80's and 90's when AZO had a good amount of mainline with Piedmont and Northwest service and American Eagle and United Express were both flying their biggest planes there.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
Ishrion
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Re: UPDATE: AA Goes Forward with Suspending Service to 15 Small Airports in October

Thu Aug 20, 2020 6:50 pm

capejet wrote:
Are these suspensions all for one month? Is there a chance some will be permanent?


At the moment, these cities will be suspended from October 7 to November 3, however, AA will continue to evaluate these 15 cities and other markets, so the suspensions could get extended.
 
enplaned
Posts: 165
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:49 pm

Re: UPDATE: AA Goes Forward with Suspending Service to 15 Small Airports in October

Thu Aug 20, 2020 6:50 pm

capejet wrote:
Are these suspensions all for one month? Is there a chance some will be permanent?


Nominally. The obvious message from American to the relevant congresscritters is "nice little airport you have there. Be a shame if there was no service. You can ensure continued service for another six months by writing us another check for multiple billions of dollars..."

We sure do love to extoll the virtues of our free market system. But we also love to find all kinds of reasons why certain things are far far too important to leave up to the invisible hand...
 
n9801f
Posts: 235
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:29 am

Re: UPDATE: AA Goes Forward with Suspending Service to 15 Small Airports in October

Thu Aug 20, 2020 7:01 pm

This list strikes me as more politically than economically motivated.

AA is the only network carrier in many of these places. Many are geographically very isolated - Huntington WV; Williamsport, PA; Del Rio, TX; Roswell, NM. They're all in tough straits when AA pulls out.

What sticks out to me is that some of these places were probably economically viable. For instance AA served Roswell, NM (ROW) for decades with 3-4 flights. Through other recessions, etc. AA wouldn't have kept ROW so long if the route were honestly struggling.

Is ROW now suddenly worse than something like TYR (mentioned upthread)? Probably not. Especially when you consider that if places like TYR lost service instead, people would probably drive to DFW to catch an AA nonstop to their final destination. Speed limits are 80+ in parts of Texas, after all.

ROW just "teaches the politicians a lesson" better than other places. Same with IPT, or DRT, which are also very isolated.

As a taxpayer, I have to ask, you seriously expect me to pay this ransom? AA tries to squeeze me where it hurts most, and DL wants to use my money to bludgeon AS in SEA in an uneconomic fare ware? You want to use my tax money to pay $300K per year pilots? Are you serious? I find it an irresponsible use of taxpayer dollars.

I feel horrible for all the good people at AA and DL! I've been there myself. But the coarse, crude, raw political nature of these pulldowns isn't making a very appealing case to discerning taxpayers.
 
n9801f
Posts: 235
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:29 am

Re: REPORT: American to drop routes to "two dozen" small/medium sized cities with no new aid

Thu Aug 20, 2020 7:03 pm

enplaned wrote:
There's little doubt this was designed to maximize political impact. American needs a second CARES Act grant.

Couldn't agree more!
 
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Acey559
Posts: 1400
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Re: UPDATE: AA Goes Forward with Suspending Service to 15 Small Airports in October

Thu Aug 20, 2020 7:11 pm

KCaviator wrote:
DBQ has a beautiful new terminal. Sad to see.


Indeed. I went to college in Dubuque and worked ramp for American Eagle my freshman year. Really sad to see.
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.

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