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jonas12345
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:34 am

Re: Heathrow Airport Limited’s redevelopment plan with the third runway delayed until 2030

Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:04 am

skipness1E wrote:
For the 10 millionth time, and the key point of the Holland review, it’s not about how quickly you can get from the airport to your own house, but the economic benefits of an efficient and well connected hub and spoke airport. That is not and never has been Gatwick. But yeah, snobbery.


The Holland review? Sounds a bit biased if it was written by the Heathrow CEO :bomb:

But yes, one of the key reasons why Heathrow was 'chosen' was due to it's hub status and connecting traffic. That doesn't, and won't exist in any meaningful way with a second runway at STN or LGW.
 
DobboDobbo
Posts: 1141
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:02 am

Re: Heathrow Airport Limited’s redevelopment plan with the third runway delayed until 2030

Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:43 am

One of the reasons why the central question the airports commission were asked to answer was about “hub capacity” was because it was expected that the answer would be “Heathrow”.

If so, that smacks of snobbery to me.

Despite this (and despite the release of what much have been a predetermined conclusion that heathrow was the “better” option) the financial model revealed that Gatwick produced the highest net benefits to the U.K. in the long term. Despite this, the policy stubbornly remained supportive of Heathrow.

Again, this smacks of snobbery (at best).

This also ignored the most pressing question of deliverability and affordability - Heathrow could do neither before coronavirus and it most certainly is in a materially worse position to do so now.
 
BealineV953
Topic Author
Posts: 202
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:00 am

Re: Heathrow Airport Limited’s redevelopment plan with the third runway delayed until 2030

Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:00 pm

flyingphil wrote:
I think the longer this saga drags on the less chance there is of a third runway at Heathrow.
The very expensive Howard Davis report that recommended Heathrow for expansion is well out of date.

Just slapping a runway down over a built up area, that also has main roads, vital motorways and transport links is a huge undertaking. Plus you would have to knock down hotels, offices and British Airways Head Office.
Maybe the fairly radical idea of splitting the northern runway into two separate runways is worth a further look
https://heathrowhub.com/

Will check back in ten years or so to see if anything has changed.


Hello. Thanks for your post.
Heathrow's third runway has been debated in many threads.
I want to focus this thread on the art of the possible; the redevelopment of Heathrow's Central Area.
My question is, will HAL put their entire development plan on hold, or replan?
Will HAL bring forward the work that has started on Terminal 2?
Will HAL use the hiatus to bring forward work on replacing on Terminal 3? The main part of Terminal 3 is sixty years old (it opened in November 1961) and the Arrivals building opened in 1970. Pier 7 is unfit for purpose. In the existing plan, T3 will be up to ninety years old by the time it is replaced.
Given that the CTA is within the existing airport boundary and that the work to be done replaces existing buildings, obtaining planning permission should not be too difficult.

Regarding "...you would have to knock down British Airways Head Office".
The BA headquarters at Waterside opened in 1998. IAG are located in the same building. The American Airlines EMEA office is also at Waterside.
I was at a presentation where BA’s Director responsible for airport policy at the time explained the airline’s position on the third runway. Amongst other things, he said that if the third runway goes ahead, Heathrow Airport Limited will have to buy Waterside at market value plus 25%, and cover BA’s moving expenses. BA and IAG wouldn’t choose to move to a new location, but moving is not a blocker.
Ever since childhood, when I lived within sight of London Airport, I have seldom seen a plane go by and not wished I was on it.”
With apologies to Paul Theroux - ‘The Great Railway Bazaar’
 
chonetsao
Posts: 675
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:55 pm

Re: Heathrow Airport Limited’s redevelopment plan with the third runway delayed until 2030

Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:04 pm

Vicenza wrote:
Agree with you entirely, and with the 'snobbery' centred around Heathrow. Only have to read most comments in this forum in general to see that.
Rail links to central London could easily be improved......much easier and much cheaper than the massive cost to carry out the Heathrow plan.
Gatwick would be idea, but of course you'd have to get around the expansion clauses put in place decades ago. Indeed, irrespective of the snide comments in this forum, you can get to central London from Gatwick faster than from Heathrow. Given the choice, I fly from Gatwick over Heathrow every time


I don't think people prefers Heathrow are snobbish. There are far more people using the underground to reach Heathrow airport.

Also, depends on what part of Central London are you referring to, it is quicker and easier to go to Heathrow airport than Gatwick (for example, Paddington, Hammersmith, Bayswater, Knightsbridge...to name a few). Plus you can't beat the £3 tube fare from Heathrow.

From road traffic perspective, M4 can take you from Heathrow to Hammersmith then Victoria area in no time and a much shorter drive. Gatwick would take you to Croydon in the same time frame then you are stuck with traffic ridden small narrow zig-zag roads for a long distance to come.

And do I also need to remind you about the awful on time performance of high cancellation rates for Southern and Thames Link railways during last decade?

The things is, Heathrow and Gatwick has plus and minus points for everyone. If Gatwick suits you, fine. But Heathrow is not what you said that being snobbish or difficult to reach via public transportation etc. There are strength and weakness in both airports. No one is perfect.
 
BealineV953
Topic Author
Posts: 202
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:00 am

Re: Heathrow Airport Limited’s redevelopment plan with the third runway delayed until 2030

Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:07 pm

skipness1E wrote:
Date for the diary :

The Supreme Court has announced that it will hear an appeal from Heathrow Airport and Arora Group on Wednesday 7th and Thursday 8th October 2020 on the plans to expand Heathrow Airport by adding a third runway.


Hello.
Yes, certainly a date for the diary. For the third runway, the outcome of this appeal will be key.
Ever since childhood, when I lived within sight of London Airport, I have seldom seen a plane go by and not wished I was on it.”
With apologies to Paul Theroux - ‘The Great Railway Bazaar’
 
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flyingphil
Posts: 312
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Re: Heathrow Airport Limited’s redevelopment plan with the third runway delayed until 2030

Sat Aug 29, 2020 11:29 am

IMHO ... Stansted is very well connected to Central London.
The M11 motorway runs right past it, plentiful coach and bus services from Central London.
For people working in the City regular fast trains from Liverpool Street.
It was also approaching capacity at peak times ..
 
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Revelation
Posts: 24604
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Heathrow Airport Limited’s redevelopment plan with the third runway delayed until 2030

Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:11 pm

Confuscius wrote:
Which will open first, LHR's third runway or Berlin-Brandenburg Airport? Perhaps never...

Believe it or not, BER is on track to open on 31 October. This is as big a win as 2020 will be giving us, so enjoy it.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
Vicenza
Posts: 144
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:21 pm

Re: Heathrow Airport Limited’s redevelopment plan with the third runway delayed until 2030

Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:18 pm

chonetsao wrote:
Vicenza wrote:
Agree with you entirely, and with the 'snobbery' centred around Heathrow. Only have to read most comments in this forum in general to see that.
Rail links to central London could easily be improved......much easier and much cheaper than the massive cost to carry out the Heathrow plan.
Gatwick would be idea, but of course you'd have to get around the expansion clauses put in place decades ago. Indeed, irrespective of the snide comments in this forum, you can get to central London from Gatwick faster than from Heathrow. Given the choice, I fly from Gatwick over Heathrow every time


I don't think people prefers Heathrow are snobbish. There are far more people using the underground to reach Heathrow airport.

Also, depends on what part of Central London are you referring to, it is quicker and easier to go to Heathrow airport than Gatwick (for example, Paddington, Hammersmith, Bayswater, Knightsbridge...to name a few). Plus you can't beat the £3 tube fare from Heathrow.

From road traffic perspective, M4 can take you from Heathrow to Hammersmith then Victoria area in no time and a much shorter drive. Gatwick would take you to Croydon in the same time frame then you are stuck with traffic ridden small narrow zig-zag roads for a long distance to come.

And do I also need to remind you about the awful on time performance of high cancellation rates for Southern and Thames Link railways during last decade?

The things is, Heathrow and Gatwick has plus and minus points for everyone. If Gatwick suits you, fine. But Heathrow is not what you said that being snobbish or difficult to reach via public transportation etc. There are strength and weakness in both airports. No one is perfect.


I wasn't referring to people in general, but to the majority of the alleged business travellers on this site. Interesting that you mention"depends on what part of Central London".....precisely, and thus not definitive of Central London on general. The £3 tube fare is grand, if you don't mind the slow journey. But this is part of the point in that the snobbery aspect of which I was referring to. What alleged business traveller (on this site particularly) would admit to taking that journey, remembering of course that much of what is stated on this site is not necessarily reality. I'm afraid you don't "need to remind" of anything and the whole network is not much different.
But yes, Heathrow and Gatwick have their plus and minus points for everyone, depending on what exactly they need, However, with respect, in you correctly stating that, your comments have been carefully worded indicate a perceived "preference and superiority' of Heathrow......and exactly the point I was making.
An important consideration to remember is I, personally, (and many thousands of others) neither live or work in London, so thus I can easily fly from Gatwick and connect to any final destination fro somewhere else if necessary without the rat race that is Heathrow.

By the way, I never at any time even remotely said Heathrow was difficult to reach by public transport, so why did you feel you had to make that bit up?
 
YYZLGA
Posts: 444
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:28 am

Re: Heathrow Airport Limited’s redevelopment plan with the third runway delayed until 2030

Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:55 pm

I'm amazed by how permanent they expect this downturn to be. Obviously there will be consequences for airlines from this travel, from a broader economic downturn and amplified by a possible shift away from business travel in favour of videoconferencing. Still, this pandemic situation is going to be resolved one way or another at some point. These strict social distancing measures won't be maintained forever, and will likely be able to be removed when a vaccine is (hopefully) widely available at some point next year. At that point, I can imagine there'll be a lot of pent up demand for travel. I can certainly say that I'll book a half-dozen trips the day I get that needle in my arm.

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