Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
Antaras
Topic Author
Posts: 904
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:18 am

Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Sun Aug 16, 2020 9:09 pm

Hi, I don't know that is it too soon to create this thread. But it would be necessary soon :duck:

A bit about this furture airport
Long Thành International Airport (IATA/ ICAO codes are not signed, but unofficial info said that they might be VVLT for the ICAO code) locates approx 40km/25mi to the East of Ho Chi Minh City (Saigon, SGN) and it would be built to (partly) replace the currently Tân Sơn Nhất Int'l Airport (SGN), which is heavily overloaded due to the rise of demand before the pandemic.

Base on the Wikipedia, as well as the Vietnamese articles, have a look that this airport's plan:
The Master Plan for Long Thanh International Airport was approved by the Prime Minister Phan Văn Khải in 2006 and several adjustments have been made through time. The project faced mixed public reaction for its expensive cost and far distance from the center of Ho Chi Minh City.

Based on the demand of transportation, the investment will be divided in phases. The Southern Airports Corporation (a company under the Ministry of Transport (Vietnam)) is in charge of development of this project.

Phase 1 (2019 – 2025)
The first phase is estimated to cost US$7.8 billion and will be divided into 3 sub-phases.

Phase 1A (2019 – 2023)
According to the original plan, the airport would handle 25 million passengers per year after this phase is completed; however, the proposed capacity was later lowered to 17 million passengers per year to reduce construction cost. US$5.6 billion will be allocated to this phase. One terminal will be built along with a single runway.

Phase 1B (2023 – 2025)
Another runway will be built and increase the total capacity to 25 million passengers per annum.

Phase 1C (2025)
The rest of necessary facilities will be built and land-clearance for future phases will be made. The airport will begin operating in 2025.

Phase 2 (2025 – 2035)
The capacity will be doubled to 50 million passengers per annum and the third runway will be added when the phase is finished, which is scheduled to be in 2035.

Phase 3 (After 2035)
The airport will reach its maximum designed capacity at 80-100 million passengers and 5 million tonnes of cargo per year. Four runways will be operational after the third phase.


The illustration of the airport after reaching the final construction phase:
Image
By VnEconomy

There would be four terminals and four runways. Seems pretty fine in 2020 :duck:

Vietnam has a lot of dreams to build this airport. First, using VN's Skyteam membership power, the government wants to turn this airport into a large transit hub of the ASEAN region, compete with KUL, SIN, BKK,... Besides that, Vietnam has real demand to build this airport as the 100-year-old SGN is being overloaded and its quality might be too bad to hold international flights in the future.
How do you think about that?

===============================================================================================================
:white: :whiteflag:
First news: the airport's construction "should" begin at 2Q of 2021!

https://vnexpress.net/san-bay-long-thanh-du-kien-khoi-cong-quy-ii-2021-4125387.html
The Ministry of Planning and Consulting - The appraisal agency requires the Ministry of Transport, the Airport Corporation of Vietnam (ACV) - the agency to set up the FS, to acquire and complete the dossier for re-establishment. After the Ministry of Transport is re-evaluated, the appraisal and review organization shall report back to the State Appraisal Council for approval and the Government to consider and approve the investment project.

If the Prime Minister approves the project in early July, ACV will complete the necessary procedures to start the project into the second quarter of next year and complete in 2025.
Edit signature
This is a block of text that can be added to posts you make. There is a 255 character limit.
 
DeltaPSCFlyer
Posts: 78
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:39 pm

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:28 pm

Very ambitious! Completed by 2025? Don't know enough about KUL or BKK, but to compete against SIN? Time will tell, especially during and post-Covid19.
 
User avatar
Antaras
Topic Author
Posts: 904
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:18 am

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:29 am

DeltaPSCFlyer wrote:
Very ambitious! Completed by 2025? Don't know enough about KUL or BKK, but to compete against SIN? Time will tell, especially during and post-Covid19.

SIN? Don't think so. It is quite "impossible".

However as VN will obviously dominate this airport in the future (alongside with Bamboo), this airport can become a strong Skyteam hub in the next 10 years.
Edit signature
This is a block of text that can be added to posts you make. There is a 255 character limit.
 
XRadar98
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun May 01, 2016 4:23 am

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:54 am

I love designs of airports and how they grow. Thank you for starting this thread. I didn’t even know of plans. It will be fun for me to see the progress. Keep the updates coming.
 
User avatar
seat55a
Posts: 234
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:18 pm

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:55 am

Those horseshoe shaped terminal apron areas look like an operational nightmare.
 
ARNPEK
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:26 pm

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:10 am

Traffic wise Vietnam and HCMC needs this airport even with COIVD-19 happening. Vietnam has a huge domestic market due to the shape and limited land infrastructure in some ways that means it is similar to Norway (geographically, not economically). It's probably 4 years since I went to SGN last and it was hugely overcrowded, the boom of domestic traffic is immense.

When completed it should be very successful as a domestic/regional hub with some intercontinental traffic. No it will not compete directly with SIN for the high end business traffic, but regional traffic it will complement SIN, KUL, BKK, ICN.

The main question when will they have financing enough to break ground? And will it be completed in a timely way?
 
User avatar
Antaras
Topic Author
Posts: 904
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:18 am

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:28 am

seat55a wrote:
Those horseshoe shaped terminal apron areas look like an operational nightmare.

Yeah, there are a lot of arguments saying that the lotus-inspired design of the terminals are not optimal for operation:
Image
(c) laodong

ARNPEK wrote:
Traffic wise Vietnam and HCMC needs this airport even with COIVD-19 happening. Vietnam has a huge domestic market due to the shape and limited land infrastructure in some ways that means it is similar to Norway (geographically, not economically). It's probably 4 years since I went to SGN last and it was hugely overcrowded, the boom of domestic traffic is immense.

When completed it should be very successful as a domestic/regional hub with some intercontinental traffic. No it will not compete directly with SIN for the high end business traffic, but regional traffic it will complement SIN, KUL, BKK, ICN.

The main question when will they have financing enough to break ground? And will it be completed in a timely way?


- This airport would be 100% international, no domestic (as SGN will hold the entire domestic traffic). However, I agree that this airport will save SGN's overcrowding problem and eat some valuable traffic from other ASEAN hubs.
- There are problems on the disbursement process of the government, directly threaten the construction of the airport. And trust me 99% the project won't be completed on time, and it can be delayed for up to a decade.
Edit signature
This is a block of text that can be added to posts you make. There is a 255 character limit.
 
XRadar98
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun May 01, 2016 4:23 am

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:13 am

Antaras wrote:
seat55a wrote:
Those horseshoe shaped terminal apron areas look like an operational nightmare.

Yeah, there are a lot of arguments saying that the lotus-inspired design of the terminals are not optimal for operation:
Image
(c) laodong

ARNPEK wrote:
Traffic wise Vietnam and HCMC needs this airport even with COIVD-19 happening. Vietnam has a huge domestic market due to the shape and limited land infrastructure in some ways that means it is similar to Norway (geographically, not economically). It's probably 4 years since I went to SGN last and it was hugely overcrowded, the boom of domestic traffic is immense.

When completed it should be very successful as a domestic/regional hub with some intercontinental traffic. No it will not compete directly with SIN for the high end business traffic, but regional traffic it will complement SIN, KUL, BKK, ICN.

The main question when will they have financing enough to break ground? And will it be completed in a timely way?


- This airport would be 100% international, no domestic (as SGN will hold the entire domestic traffic). However, I agree that this airport will save SGN's overcrowding problem and eat some valuable traffic from other ASEAN hubs.
- There are problems on the disbursement process of the government, directly threaten the construction of the airport. And trust me 99% the project won't be completed on time, and it can be delayed for up to a decade.


Only for the ramp controller, and PAX wanting to get to the gate!
 
peterinlisbon
Posts: 1824
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:37 am

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:13 am

I think Saigon/HCM certainly needs a new airport. I was there last year and it was really like going back to the 90s inside the terminal, although that said it was still a pleasant experience. The main problem seemed to be that there was a lot of bussing out to the planes.

I hope they will consider some of the new designs, such as the Chinese star shape design at DaXing. By the way, anyone visiting SGN should go the icecream shop/cafe on the main road just east of the runway. There you can sit and watch the planes fly over your head every minute or two at 500 feet. That area is also full of nice places to eat.
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 13278
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:39 am

Antaras wrote:
This airport would be 100% international, no domestic (as SGN will hold the entire domestic traffic).

What connections between the two are going to be offered for int'l-to-domestic pax?


peterinlisbon wrote:
The main problem seemed to be that there was a lot of bussing out to the planes.

Why's that a problem at all, much less "the main" one?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
User avatar
MrHMSH
Posts: 2676
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:32 pm

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:57 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Antaras wrote:
This airport would be 100% international, no domestic (as SGN will hold the entire domestic traffic).

What connections between the two are going to be offered for int'l-to-domestic pax?


peterinlisbon wrote:
The main problem seemed to be that there was a lot of bussing out to the planes.

Why's that a problem at all, much less "the main" one?


VJ's entire operation at SGN requires buses, it's pretty time-consuming and contributes to delays, which they don't need more of as SGN already has enough of those!
 
eamondzhang
Posts: 1830
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:55 pm

Antaras wrote:
- This airport would be 100% international, no domestic (as SGN will hold the entire domestic traffic). However, I agree that this airport will save SGN's overcrowding problem and eat some valuable traffic from other ASEAN hubs.

Then it'll be a recipe for disaster. We do not lack failed examples like this (hello Mirabel). The way things are right now you'd better allow this airport to at least have sizable domestic connections as well or otherwise good luck to that.

If it's me I would be fine with this airport on the condition that SGN is shut for good. Ho Chi Minh City can certainly sustain an airport of this size on this condition.

Michael
 
raylee67
Posts: 915
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:06 pm

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:24 pm

eamondzhang wrote:
Antaras wrote:
- This airport would be 100% international, no domestic (as SGN will hold the entire domestic traffic). However, I agree that this airport will save SGN's overcrowding problem and eat some valuable traffic from other ASEAN hubs.

Then it'll be a recipe for disaster. We do not lack failed examples like this (hello Mirabel). The way things are right now you'd better allow this airport to at least have sizable domestic connections as well or otherwise good luck to that.

If it's me I would be fine with this airport on the condition that SGN is shut for good. Ho Chi Minh City can certainly sustain an airport of this size on this condition.

Michael


Mirabel failed because of a lot of other reasons. First, Montreal is way too small to have two airports. Its population is around 2 million. Ho Chi Minh's population is 9 million. Also, there were two Canadian gateways in the East Coast competing for traffic, i.e. Toronto and Montreal. If the airlines cannot work it out at Montreal, they move to Toronto, which was exactly what happened to European airlines. There is no other choices in southern Vietnam than Ho Chi Minh. The area is also the heart of economic growth in Vietnam. The growth has really just started. The area is more like mid-1990s of China. Moreover, Air Canada kept the US traffic at Dorval, so it's impossible to build a transit hub at YMX. If all international traffic was moved to the new airport, then international connection can happen smoothly at the airport, only international-domestic connection is inconvenienced. Most international traffic to Ho Chi Minh terminates there and do not connect to domestic flights anyway. Lastly, YMX was built in the middle of nowhere with poor road and rail connection. Only a highway (15) was built to connect to the airport. The promised rail link to the city was never built. Also don't forget that the 1970s and 80s were turbulent times in Quebec. The unrest caused many Canadian businesses to move their head offices to Toronto, and caused a drop in business and tourist traffic to Montreal area as a whole. That was the period where YMX need to build its traffic and reputation. Although the local situation stablized in the 1990s, it's too late to revive YMX.

There are many other examples with successful international/domestic split in Asia, e.g. Shanghai (PVG/SHA), Taipei (TPE/TSA), Seoul (ICN/GMP), Osaka (KIX/ITM), Tokyo (NRT/HND). While Ho Chi Minh cannot be compared to Shanghai and Tokyo, it certainly is in the same league as Osaka. There are also not many choices for domestic travel in Vietnam. The rail system is still old and there is no comprehensive expressway network. Thus, domestic traffic itself will remain heavy and may be sufficient to sustain SGN on its own, especially as the economy grow and more people can afford to fly domestically.

My guess is that the new Ho Chi Minh airport will have some "domestic" flights that is restricted to international connection. NRT used to have those to Nagoya and Osaka in the old days when HND was strictly domestic. Seoul ICN still have those flights to Busan and Daegu now. That would resolve the issue of inconvenient international/domestic connections easily.
319/20/21 332/33 342/43/45 359/51 388 707 717 732/36/3G/38/39 74R/42/43/44/4E/48 757 762/63 772/7L/73/7W 788/89 D10 M80 135/40/45 175/90 DH1/4 CRJ/R7 L10
AY LH OU SR BA FI LX
AA DL UA NW AC CP WS FL NK PD
CI NH SQ KA CX JL BR OZ TG KE CA CZ NZ JQ RS
 
User avatar
Antaras
Topic Author
Posts: 904
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:18 am

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Mon Aug 17, 2020 7:20 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Antaras wrote:
This airport would be 100% international, no domestic (as SGN will hold the entire domestic traffic).

What connections between the two are going to be offered for int'l-to-domestic pax?

By a network of freeways. Takes around 1 hour as you have to go from the East to the West of the city, going through the downtown Saigon.
Image
(c) Google Map

eamondzhang wrote:
Antaras wrote:
- This airport would be 100% international, no domestic (as SGN will hold the entire domestic traffic). However, I agree that this airport will save SGN's overcrowding problem and eat some valuable traffic from other ASEAN hubs.

Then it'll be a recipe for disaster. We do not lack failed examples like this (hello Mirabel). The way things are right now you'd better allow this airport to at least have sizable domestic connections as well or otherwise good luck to that.

If it's me I would be fine with this airport on the condition that SGN is shut for good. Ho Chi Minh City can certainly sustain an airport of this size on this condition.

Michael


One problem that is that the new airport is too far from the downtown. Spending an hour to move to the airport just to catch a 45-minute domestic flight seems nonsensical.
Even though if Long Thanh would have the domestic terminal, the domestic pax would try to choose flights operating in the current Tan Son Nhat first, not the faraway Long Thanh. Domestic flights from Long Thanh would probably mainly for transitting pax who don't want to spend 1 hour moving to Tan Son Nhat!
Edit signature
This is a block of text that can be added to posts you make. There is a 255 character limit.
 
User avatar
Antaras
Topic Author
Posts: 904
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:18 am

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Mon Aug 17, 2020 7:23 pm

raylee67 wrote:
My guess is that the new Ho Chi Minh airport will have some "domestic" flights that is restricted to international connection. NRT used to have those to Nagoya and Osaka in the old days when HND was strictly domestic. Seoul ICN still have those flights to Busan and Daegu now. That would resolve the issue of inconvenient international/domestic connections easily.

Yup that is the main point. If you are a Ho Chi Minh City local and you are finding a domestic flight, 99% you would choose the one operating in SGN.
As I mentioned if the new Long Thanh has the domestic service, mostly for transitting pax.
Edit signature
This is a block of text that can be added to posts you make. There is a 255 character limit.
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 13278
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:02 pm

Antaras wrote:
One problem that is that the new airport is too far from the downtown. Spending an hour to move to the airport just to catch a 45-minute domestic flight seems nonsensical.
Even though if Long Thanh would have the domestic terminal, the domestic pax would try to choose flights operating in the current Tan Son Nhat first, not the faraway Long Thanh. Domestic flights from Long Thanh would probably mainly for transitting pax who don't want to spend 1 hour moving to Tan Son Nhat!

Anyone smell a Mirabel/Malpensa/Dulles/Kansai situation forming here...?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
User avatar
Antaras
Topic Author
Posts: 904
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:18 am

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:23 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Antaras wrote:
One problem that is that the new airport is too far from the downtown. Spending an hour to move to the airport just to catch a 45-minute domestic flight seems nonsensical.
Even though if Long Thanh would have the domestic terminal, the domestic pax would try to choose flights operating in the current Tan Son Nhat first, not the faraway Long Thanh. Domestic flights from Long Thanh would probably mainly for transiting pax who don't want to spend 1 hour moving to Tan Son Nhat!

Anyone smell a Mirabel/Malpensa/Dulles/Kansai situation forming here...?

Not any smell of failure here. VN and other carriers would move their international ops to the new Long Thành.
(There is no more spaces in SGN, anyway. That is the main point: to save SGN).

Besides the fact that it is a bit too far from the Saigon downtown, the airport's location is such perfect as it can reach most of famous travel destination in the Southern Vietnam within 2 hours by car.
Image

Catched on Google Map. The three red-framed locations are all having gigantic amount of foreign travelers before Covid-19. That's the government purpose: not only partly replacing the old SGN but also hold a large traffic goes to those destinations (some data shows that up to 30%-50% of pax landed in SGN go to those destinations)
Edit signature
This is a block of text that can be added to posts you make. There is a 255 character limit.
 
blooc350
Posts: 172
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:10 pm

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:38 pm

Antaras wrote:
compete with KUL, SIN, BKK,... .


Highly doubt they will be able to compete with SIN's new T5

Image
 
User avatar
Antaras
Topic Author
Posts: 904
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:18 am

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:40 pm

blooc350 wrote:
Highly doubt they will be able to compete with SIN's new T5

Yup, the whole airport vs one terminal :duck:
Edit signature
This is a block of text that can be added to posts you make. There is a 255 character limit.
 
blandy62
Posts: 311
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 12:47 am

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:12 pm

eamondzhang wrote:
Antaras wrote:
- This airport would be 100% international, no domestic (as SGN will hold the entire domestic traffic). However, I agree that this airport will save SGN's overcrowding problem and eat some valuable traffic from other ASEAN hubs.

Then it'll be a recipe for disaster. We do not lack failed examples like this (hello Mirabel). The way things are right now you'd better allow this airport to at least have sizable domestic connections as well or otherwise good luck to that.

If it's me I would be fine with this airport on the condition that SGN is shut for good. Ho Chi Minh City can certainly sustain an airport of this size on this condition.

Michael


It won’t the first place with such an arrangement. Look at Taipei, Seoul. Tokyo used to work just fine like this.
 
BHRN
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri May 08, 2020 11:16 am

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:12 am

You don't need to "beat" the likes of SIN/KUL/BKK to make yourself a worthy competitor. Making yourself a viable alternative for travelers is good enough.

That said, aside from infrastructure, VN (the country) may like to take a look at their visa requirements if they really want to compete with other ASEAN hubs.

b-hrn
 
xjetflyer2001
Posts: 275
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:20 pm

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:26 am

MrHMSH wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Antaras wrote:
This airport would be 100% international, no domestic (as SGN will hold the entire domestic traffic).

What connections between the two are going to be offered for int'l-to-domestic pax?


peterinlisbon wrote:
The main problem seemed to be that there was a lot of bussing out to the planes.

Why's that a problem at all, much less "the main" one?


VJ's entire operation at SGN requires buses, it's pretty time-consuming and contributes to delays, which they don't need more of as SGN already has enough of those!


I was at SGN in January this year and had to do the bus thing, hated every minute of it, the small cramped area they jam you in waiting on your aircraft, my aircraft got on a rolling delay and ended up being almost 3 hours delayed, even after we saw the crew get bused to the aircraft we had to wait another 45 min before the bus finally started taking passengers.
 
User avatar
Antaras
Topic Author
Posts: 904
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:18 am

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:56 am

xjetflyer2001 wrote:
I was at SGN in January this year and had to do the bus thing, hated every minute of it, the small cramped area they jam you in waiting on your aircraft, my aircraft got on a rolling delay and ended up being almost 3 hours delayed, even after we saw the crew get bused to the aircraft we had to wait another 45 min before the bus finally started taking passengers.

Well the buses, result in the unnecessary-long turnaround time, literally corrupted the whole Vietnam's aviation industry.

https://vnexplorer.net/bamboo-airways-leads-in-seven-month-on-time-performance-a202077011.html
According to the CAAV, 59.8 percent of the delayed and cancelled flights was due to late returns of aircraft, 26.8 percent was from the airlines and 7.3 percent was due to equipment and services at the port./.
Edit signature
This is a block of text that can be added to posts you make. There is a 255 character limit.
 
maps4ltd
Posts: 550
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:59 am

SGN is definitely fine right now but could return to crowded levels after the pandemic. Isn't there some land on the north side of the current airport for a separate new terminal (around/east of the golf course)?
Delta Gold Medallion
 
User avatar
Antaras
Topic Author
Posts: 904
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:18 am

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:07 am

maps4ltd wrote:
Isn't there some land on the north side of the current airport for a separate new terminal (around/east of the golf course)?


Nope. Seems like the gov denied to use that golf course for some more terminals, runways and hangars.

Next year the Third Terminal of SGN will be constructed, but not in the golf course. Due to be finished in July 2023.
Image
(c) Hà Nội Mới
Edit signature
This is a block of text that can be added to posts you make. There is a 255 character limit.
 
blooc350
Posts: 172
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:10 pm

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Tue Aug 18, 2020 4:56 am

Antaras wrote:
blooc350 wrote:
Highly doubt they will be able to compete with SIN's new T5

Yup, the whole airport vs one terminal :duck:


hahah well, SIN T1,T2,T3,T4,T5 is still larger than this new wanna be "hub" of ASEAN. :spin:
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 13278
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Tue Aug 18, 2020 5:30 am

Antaras wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Antaras wrote:
One problem that is that the new airport is too far from the downtown. Spending an hour to move to the airport just to catch a 45-minute domestic flight seems nonsensical.
Even though if Long Thanh would have the domestic terminal, the domestic pax would try to choose flights operating in the current Tan Son Nhat first, not the faraway Long Thanh. Domestic flights from Long Thanh would probably mainly for transiting pax who don't want to spend 1 hour moving to Tan Son Nhat!

Anyone smell a Mirabel/Malpensa/Dulles/Kansai situation forming here...?

Not any smell of failure here. VN and other carriers would move their international ops to the new Long Thành.
(There is no more spaces in SGN, anyway. That is the main point: to save SGN).

I'm aware of that, but my point wasn't to "failure" per se... it's that all of the aforementioned examples, in varied markets on three different continents, the result was the same:
a huge new international-focused airport, placed inconveniently far away without significant connecting infrastructure, rarely lives up to its potential when the (crowded/outdated) original gateway remains in use.

So my question was essentially: what's going to make Ho Chi Minh/Saigon the exception? Of which there are so few.

BKK is one, but that's because it's closer to some of the densest areas of Bangkok than even DMK was.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
blooc350
Posts: 172
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:10 pm

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Tue Aug 18, 2020 5:51 am

Antaras wrote:
blooc350 wrote:
Highly doubt they will be able to compete with SIN's new T5

Yup, the whole airport vs one terminal :duck:



Also, you clearly don't know that Singapore T5 is the entire lower development of Changi Airport.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvvH37e32bw


Image
Last edited by blooc350 on Tue Aug 18, 2020 5:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
ScottB
Posts: 7057
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Tue Aug 18, 2020 5:55 am

Antaras wrote:
Base on the Wikipedia, as well as the Vietnamese articles, have a look that this airport's plan:

...

There would be four terminals and four runways. Seems pretty fine in 2020 :duck:

Vietnam has a lot of dreams to build this airport. First, using VN's Skyteam membership power, the government wants to turn this airport into a large transit hub of the ASEAN region, compete with KUL, SIN, BKK,... Besides that, Vietnam has real demand to build this airport as the 100-year-old SGN is being overloaded and its quality might be too bad to hold international flights in the future.
How do you think about that?


If they want the airport to be a large transit hub for VN, the best possible design would be a single large terminal with multiple satellite concourses like HKG, SIN T5, LHR T5, DEN, ATL, etc. Multiple terminals would constrain the hub carrier to either operate in a single, too-small facility or deal with busing passengers between terminals. There's no advantage to duplicating check-in areas between multiple terminals if they're all to be used by the same carrier.

The lotus-shaped terminals give too much emphasis to form over function, and there's really no good reason to have the train stop far from the terminals. If you're building it all from scratch, put the train stations in the terminals to give passengers a more seamless connection between modes.

And there is basically one successful international transit hub carrier in the ASEAN region -- SQ -- based in the region's wealthiest state. Vietnam is rapidly developing but it has a long, long way to go before it can support a global hub carrier like SQ. Not emphasizing domestic connectivity would be a self-imposed wound as those flights would provide important feed to those international flights and serve a key niche as the country develops outside HCMC and Hanoi.
 
blooc350
Posts: 172
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:10 pm

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:01 am

ScottB wrote:
And there is basically one successful international transit hub carrier in the ASEAN region -- SQ -- based in the region's wealthiest state. Vietnam is rapidly developing but it has a long, long way to go before it can support a global hub carrier like SQ. Not emphasizing domestic connectivity would be a self-imposed wound as those flights would provide important feed to those international flights and serve a key niche as the country develops outside HCMC and Hanoi.


EXACTLY!!

Vietnam Airlines' brand, route network and fleet isn't even in the same league as SQ ,so I don't know how Vietnam could ever become the new "ASEAN hub".
 
Tankdiver
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:07 am

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Tue Aug 18, 2020 7:08 am

Finishing Phase 1 by 2025 is just pure fantasy. They haven't even broke ground on the project yet. I would say 2030 is more likely. Then there is the government's financial tussling going on whether they should continue to fund the development of SGN or put it all into the new airport. If they are planning to keep SGN for domestic flights, then they should have built the new metro going from SGN to the new airport, instead of starting it from district 1. Speaking of the Ho Chi Minh metro line, that in itself is a drama unfolding in the last 12 years, with delays after delays and massive cost overruns. The new airport project is on a much larger scale than the metro line. I know some of the people involve in this Long Thanh airport project and they told me with the way things are going, they might not live long enough to see it get to phase 2.
 
User avatar
c933103
Posts: 4483
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:18 pm

raylee67 wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
Antaras wrote:
- This airport would be 100% international, no domestic (as SGN will hold the entire domestic traffic). However, I agree that this airport will save SGN's overcrowding problem and eat some valuable traffic from other ASEAN hubs.

Then it'll be a recipe for disaster. We do not lack failed examples like this (hello Mirabel). The way things are right now you'd better allow this airport to at least have sizable domestic connections as well or otherwise good luck to that.

If it's me I would be fine with this airport on the condition that SGN is shut for good. Ho Chi Minh City can certainly sustain an airport of this size on this condition.

Michael


Mirabel failed because of a lot of other reasons. First, Montreal is way too small to have two airports. Its population is around 2 million. Ho Chi Minh's population is 9 million. Also, there were two Canadian gateways in the East Coast competing for traffic, i.e. Toronto and Montreal. If the airlines cannot work it out at Montreal, they move to Toronto, which was exactly what happened to European airlines. There is no other choices in southern Vietnam than Ho Chi Minh. The area is also the heart of economic growth in Vietnam. The growth has really just started. The area is more like mid-1990s of China. Moreover, Air Canada kept the US traffic at Dorval, so it's impossible to build a transit hub at YMX. If all international traffic was moved to the new airport, then international connection can happen smoothly at the airport, only international-domestic connection is inconvenienced. Most international traffic to Ho Chi Minh terminates there and do not connect to domestic flights anyway. Lastly, YMX was built in the middle of nowhere with poor road and rail connection. Only a highway (15) was built to connect to the airport. The promised rail link to the city was never built. Also don't forget that the 1970s and 80s were turbulent times in Quebec. The unrest caused many Canadian businesses to move their head offices to Toronto, and caused a drop in business and tourist traffic to Montreal area as a whole. That was the period where YMX need to build its traffic and reputation. Although the local situation stablized in the 1990s, it's too late to revive YMX.

There are many other examples with successful international/domestic split in Asia, e.g. Shanghai (PVG/SHA), Taipei (TPE/TSA), Seoul (ICN/GMP), Osaka (KIX/ITM), Tokyo (NRT/HND). While Ho Chi Minh cannot be compared to Shanghai and Tokyo, it certainly is in the same league as Osaka. There are also not many choices for domestic travel in Vietnam. The rail system is still old and there is no comprehensive expressway network. Thus, domestic traffic itself will remain heavy and may be sufficient to sustain SGN on its own, especially as the economy grow and more people can afford to fly domestically.

My guess is that the new Ho Chi Minh airport will have some "domestic" flights that is restricted to international connection. NRT used to have those to Nagoya and Osaka in the old days when HND was strictly domestic. Seoul ICN still have those flights to Busan and Daegu now. That would resolve the issue of inconvenient international/domestic connections easily.

All the split airport systems in Asia still either have connection flight from the international airport to other domestic airport, or is connected directly or indirectly to rest of the country through high speed rail.
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate. 求同存異. よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
(≧▽≦) Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan!
(≧▽≦) Meow Meow Meow! Meow Meow Meow Meow!
 
raylee67
Posts: 915
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:06 pm

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:41 pm

c933103 wrote:
All the split airport systems in Asia still either have connection flight from the international airport to other domestic airport, or is connected directly or indirectly to rest of the country through high speed rail.


Not really:

Shanghai PVG - domestic flight yes, high speed rail no (Maglev is high speed alright, but it doesn't go anywhere from PVG)
Shanghai SHA - international flight VERY limited to HND, GMP and TSA only, high speed rail yes

Osaka KIX - domestic flight yes, high speed rail no (normal JR doesn't count)
Osaka ITM - international flight no, high speed rail no

Tokyo NRT - domestic flight limited only started when LCC moved into T3 a few years ago, high speed rail no (NEX is not high speed rail)
Tokyo HND - international flight yes, high speed rail no

Seoul ICN - domestic flight no, high speed rail no (AREX is not high speed rail)
Seoul GMP - international flight VERY limited to HND, TSA, PEK and SHA only, high speed rail no

Taipei TPE - domestic flight no, high speed rail no
Taipei TSA - international flight VERY limited to HND, GMP and China only, high speed rail no
319/20/21 332/33 342/43/45 359/51 388 707 717 732/36/3G/38/39 74R/42/43/44/4E/48 757 762/63 772/7L/73/7W 788/89 D10 M80 135/40/45 175/90 DH1/4 CRJ/R7 L10
AY LH OU SR BA FI LX
AA DL UA NW AC CP WS FL NK PD
CI NH SQ KA CX JL BR OZ TG KE CA CZ NZ JQ RS
 
eamondzhang
Posts: 1830
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:54 pm

raylee67 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
All the split airport systems in Asia still either have connection flight from the international airport to other domestic airport, or is connected directly or indirectly to rest of the country through high speed rail.


Not really:

Shanghai PVG - domestic flight yes, high speed rail no (Maglev is high speed alright, but it doesn't go anywhere from PVG)
Shanghai SHA - international flight VERY limited to HND, GMP and TSA only, high speed rail yes

Osaka KIX - domestic flight yes, high speed rail no (normal JR doesn't count)
Osaka ITM - international flight no, high speed rail no

Tokyo NRT - domestic flight limited only started when LCC moved into T3 a few years ago, high speed rail no (NEX is not high speed rail)
Tokyo HND - international flight yes, high speed rail no

Seoul ICN - domestic flight no, high speed rail no (AREX is not high speed rail)
Seoul GMP - international flight VERY limited to HND, TSA, PEK and SHA only, high speed rail no

Taipei TPE - domestic flight no, high speed rail no
Taipei TSA - international flight VERY limited to HND, GMP and China only, high speed rail no

Minor correction:
GMP has KIX in addition to the one mentioned.
NRT has domestic flights but just not to as many as one wanted (only to major cities, OKA, CTS, ITM, FUK, SDJ and HIJ).
And c933103 did mention that it's a "either or" scenario.

Michael
 
User avatar
c933103
Posts: 4483
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:45 pm

raylee67 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
All the split airport systems in Asia still either have connection flight from the international airport to other domestic airport, or is connected directly or indirectly to rest of the country through high speed rail.


Not really:

Shanghai PVG - domestic flight yes, high speed rail no (Maglev is high speed alright, but it doesn't go anywhere from PVG)
Shanghai SHA - international flight VERY limited to HND, GMP and TSA only, high speed rail yes

Osaka KIX - domestic flight yes, high speed rail no (normal JR doesn't count)
Osaka ITM - international flight no, high speed rail no

Tokyo NRT - domestic flight limited only started when LCC moved into T3 a few years ago, high speed rail no (NEX is not high speed rail)
Tokyo HND - international flight yes, high speed rail no

Seoul ICN - domestic flight no, high speed rail no (AREX is not high speed rail)
Seoul GMP - international flight VERY limited to HND, TSA, PEK and SHA only, high speed rail no

Taipei TPE - domestic flight no, high speed rail no
Taipei TSA - international flight VERY limited to HND, GMP and China only, high speed rail no

TPE have no direct high speed rail connection, but it have feed from entire Taiwan through the high speed rail by bus to the high speed rail station despite there're some distances inbetween.
ICN also get feed from reat of South Korea in the same way
NRT actually have feeder flight to rest of country even before LCCs, there were even slots specifically dedicated for the purpose. KIX have them too

Compares with the situation in Vietnam, there are no any form of high speed rail anywhere around the country in foreseeable period of time, and being 100% dedixated to international it also mean no feeder flight unlike those Japanese airports
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate. 求同存異. よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
(≧▽≦) Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan!
(≧▽≦) Meow Meow Meow! Meow Meow Meow Meow!
 
User avatar
MrHMSH
Posts: 2676
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:32 pm

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:56 pm

I think it'd be a little weird for there to be zero domestic connections, surely a handful of flights to DAD, HAN, HUI, CXR, PQC etc for connections would be viable? I'm sure there's enough demand from those places to other cities outside Vietnam to justify 2-3 flights per day (to meet a bank of departures shortly after)?.
 
Tankdiver
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:07 am

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Tue Aug 18, 2020 4:22 pm

I think the international flights only restrictions is only at the beginning. They will eventually move all flight operations from SGN to the new airport later on once operations has been ironed out. Sort of like what happened to BKK and DMK when they started operations. They might just keep SGN around for logistics.
 
User avatar
Antaras
Topic Author
Posts: 904
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:18 am

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:54 pm

MrHMSH wrote:
I think it'd be a little weird for there to be zero domestic connections, surely a handful of flights to DAD, HAN, HUI, CXR, PQC etc for connections would be viable? I'm sure there's enough demand from those places to other cities outside Vietnam to justify 2-3 flights per day (to meet a bank of departures shortly after)?.

Tankdiver wrote:
I think the international flights only restrictions is only at the beginning. They will eventually move all flight operations from SGN to the new airport later on once operations has been ironed out. Sort of like what happened to BKK and DMK when they started operations. They might just keep SGN around for logistics.

Think so. There should be some domestic ops from Long Thành to other Vietnam's key airports such as CXR, DAD, HAN, VDO, PQC,...

Tankdiver wrote:
Then there is the government's financial tussling going on whether they should continue to fund the development of SGN or put it all into the new airport.

To make it simple, the gov has chosen both: building Long Thành as well as the SGN T3 for the same time. :spin:
Edit signature
This is a block of text that can be added to posts you make. There is a 255 character limit.
 
Zinu
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:24 pm

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Threa

Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:37 pm

MrHMSH wrote:
I think it'd be a little weird for there to be zero domestic connections, surely a handful of flights to DAD, HAN, HUI, CXR, PQC etc for connections would be viable? I'm sure there's enough demand from those places to other cities outside Vietnam to justify 2-3 flights per day (to meet a bank of departures shortly after)?.


The notion about Long Thanh handling 0% of domestic capacity is wrong. The split for Long Thanh will be 12% of Vietnam Airlines domestic capacity and 85% international capacity while the existing SGN will handle short haul international using narrowbody and mainly domestic.

It might just be something similar to the original Haneda - Narita split.

https://vnexpress.net/san-bay-long-thanh-duoc-de-xuat-dam-nhiem-85-chuyen-bay-quoc-te-3827707.html
 
User avatar
Antaras
Topic Author
Posts: 904
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:18 am

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Threa

Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:11 pm

Zinu wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:
I think it'd be a little weird for there to be zero domestic connections, surely a handful of flights to DAD, HAN, HUI, CXR, PQC etc for connections would be viable? I'm sure there's enough demand from those places to other cities outside Vietnam to justify 2-3 flights per day (to meet a bank of departures shortly after)?.


The notion about Long Thanh handling 0% of domestic capacity is wrong. The split for Long Thanh will be 12% of Vietnam Airlines domestic capacity and 85% international capacity while the existing SGN will handle short haul international using narrowbody and mainly domestic.

It might just be something similar to the original Haneda - Narita split.

https://vnexpress.net/san-bay-long-thanh-duoc-de-xuat-dam-nhiem-85-chuyen-bay-quoc-te-3827707.html


Wow, thank you for your clarification. Didn’t know about the 85% suggestion before.

However, VN would operate the airport exclusively. Is it fair for other Vietnamese carriers, especially Bamboo, who has plan to launch many long-haul routes?
Edit signature
This is a block of text that can be added to posts you make. There is a 255 character limit.
 
User avatar
Antaras
Topic Author
Posts: 904
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:18 am

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Sat Aug 22, 2020 4:35 am

Currently on wikipedia, the airport's site has been updated with its new IATA/ICAO code.
Don't know if is it true.
Image
Edit signature
This is a block of text that can be added to posts you make. There is a 255 character limit.
 
The777Man
Posts: 6125
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 1999 4:54 am

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:22 am

Antaras wrote:
Currently on wikipedia, the airport's site has been updated with its new IATA/ICAO code.
Don't know if is it true.
Image



Not correct for the IATA code. I just checked their website and it's the city code for London, United Kingdom.

The777Man
Boeing 777s flown: UA, TG, KE, BA, CX, NH, JD, JL, CZ, SQ, EK, NG, CO, AF, SV, KU, DL, AA, MH, OZ, CA, MS, SU, LY, RG, PE, AZ, KL, VN, PK, EY, NZ, AM, BR, AC, DT, UU, OS, AI, 9W, KQ, QR, VA, JJ, ET, TK, PR, BG, T5, CI, MU and LX.. Further to fly.. LH 777
 
peterinlisbon
Posts: 1824
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:37 am

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Wed Aug 26, 2020 10:22 pm

xjetflyer2001 wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
What connections between the two are going to be offered for int'l-to-domestic pax?



Why's that a problem at all, much less "the main" one?


VJ's entire operation at SGN requires buses, it's pretty time-consuming and contributes to delays, which they don't need more of as SGN already has enough of those!


I was at SGN in January this year and had to do the bus thing, hated every minute of it, the small cramped area they jam you in waiting on your aircraft, my aircraft got on a rolling delay and ended up being almost 3 hours delayed, even after we saw the crew get bused to the aircraft we had to wait another 45 min before the bus finally started taking passengers.


Maybe I got off lightly. My Vietjet flight was delayed but I got a message the day before warning me of the "change of schedule" which was actually convenient for me as I got some extra sleep. But then the flight was delayed again by about an hour and instead of posting a delay they just changed the departure time on the screen, which made it hard to find my flight since they are listed by time and there were other flights to the same destination. I agree the bus area is ugly and I certainly would want to be there for too long.
 
User avatar
Antaras
Topic Author
Posts: 904
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:18 am

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:45 am

peterinlisbon wrote:
But then the flight was delayed again by about an hour and instead of posting a delay they just changed the departure time on the screen, which made it hard to find my flight since they are listed by time and there were other flights to the same destination. I agree the bus area is ugly and I certainly would want to be there for too long.

1. Yah VJ has been criticized heavily in the last few years because of that trick to improve its On-time Performance figure (even though it is still the worst in Vietnam, alongside with Jetstar Pacific Airlines.
2. Yes, the SGN ramp is terrible and you should wish for a bridge-boarding flight. However all of the bridges in SGN and HAN are "purchased" by Vietnam Airlines and Bamboo Airways, there might be nothing left for VietJet and Pacific Airlines.
Edit signature
This is a block of text that can be added to posts you make. There is a 255 character limit.
 
rgrassick
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:26 am

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:19 am

Antaras wrote:
peterinlisbon wrote:
But then the flight was delayed again by about an hour and instead of posting a delay they just changed the departure time on the screen, which made it hard to find my flight since they are listed by time and there were other flights to the same destination. I agree the bus area is ugly and I certainly would want to be there for too long.

1. Yah VJ has been criticized heavily in the last few years because of that trick to improve its On-time Performance figure (even though it is still the worst in Vietnam, alongside with Jetstar Pacific Airlines.
2. Yes, the SGN ramp is terrible and you should wish for a bridge-boarding flight. However all of the bridges in SGN and HAN are "purchased" by Vietnam Airlines and Bamboo Airways, there might be nothing left for VietJet and Pacific Airlines.


I went through SGN this time last year for the 3rd time, and it does need work. We go off the international flight, walked to the domestic gate in the next terminal, and i'm sure we walked past the plane we had just got off! then got on the sardine bus to our domestic flight, and i'm sure the driver took a detour, perhaps to slow our arrival so the bus in front passengers had more time.

Wish id known about the ice cream shop at the end of the runway though
 
User avatar
Antaras
Topic Author
Posts: 904
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:18 am

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:29 pm

Seems like the Vietnam Department of Transportation just changed the airport's design a little bit

https://plo.vn/do-thi/bo-gtvt-dieu-chin ... 34492.html
Accordingly, the runway of Long Thanh airport is adjusted to reduce the road surface width from 60m to 45m, increasing the width of the sidewalk on each side from 7.5m to 15m. The taxiway system is adjusted to reduce the width from 25m to 23m, reducing the width of the sidewalk on each side from 17.5m to 10.5m.

In addition, the Department adds a pair of runways that escape from the runway to the parallel runway to replace the pair of taxiways that connect perpendicular to the runway. Along with that, extending the taxiway connecting to the west to connect with the aircraft parking lot at the express cargo terminal and the isolated aircraft parking location.

In addition, the location of the weather radar and the meteorological garden was added in the northern reserve area. Planning to adjust the land area for ground service equipment between the Air Traffic Control Station area and the security checkpoint into reserve land for the Air Traffic Control Station….
Edit signature
This is a block of text that can be added to posts you make. There is a 255 character limit.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 20276
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:09 pm

raylee67 wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
Antaras wrote:
- This airport would be 100% international, no domestic (as SGN will hold the entire domestic traffic). However, I agree that this airport will save SGN's overcrowding problem and eat some valuable traffic from other ASEAN hubs.

Then it'll be a recipe for disaster. We do not lack failed examples like this (hello Mirabel). The way things are right now you'd better allow this airport to at least have sizable domestic connections as well or otherwise good luck to that.

If it's me I would be fine with this airport on the condition that SGN is shut for good. Ho Chi Minh City can certainly sustain an airport of this size on this condition.

Michael


Mirabel failed because of a lot of other reasons. First, Montreal is way too small to have two airports. Its population is around 2 million. Ho Chi Minh's population is 9 million. Also, there were two Canadian gateways in the East Coast competing for traffic, i.e. Toronto and Montreal. If the airlines cannot work it out at Montreal, they move to Toronto, which was exactly what happened to European airlines. There is no other choices in southern Vietnam than Ho Chi Minh. The area is also the heart of economic growth in Vietnam. The growth has really just started. The area is more like mid-1990s of China. Moreover, Air Canada kept the US traffic at Dorval, so it's impossible to build a transit hub at YMX. If all international traffic was moved to the new airport, then international connection can happen smoothly at the airport, only international-domestic connection is inconvenienced. Most international traffic to Ho Chi Minh terminates there and do not connect to domestic flights anyway. Lastly, YMX was built in the middle of nowhere with poor road and rail connection. Only a highway (15) was built to connect to the airport. The promised rail link to the city was never built. Also don't forget that the 1970s and 80s were turbulent times in Quebec. The unrest caused many Canadian businesses to move their head offices to Toronto, and caused a drop in business and tourist traffic to Montreal area as a whole. That was the period where YMX need to build its traffic and reputation. Although the local situation stablized in the 1990s, it's too late to revive YMX.

There are many other examples with successful international/domestic split in Asia, e.g. Shanghai (PVG/SHA), Taipei (TPE/TSA), Seoul (ICN/GMP), Osaka (KIX/ITM), Tokyo (NRT/HND). While Ho Chi Minh cannot be compared to Shanghai and Tokyo, it certainly is in the same league as Osaka. There are also not many choices for domestic travel in Vietnam. The rail system is still old and there is no comprehensive expressway network. Thus, domestic traffic itself will remain heavy and may be sufficient to sustain SGN on its own, especially as the economy grow and more people can afford to fly domestically.

My guess is that the new Ho Chi Minh airport will have some "domestic" flights that is restricted to international connection. NRT used to have those to Nagoya and Osaka in the old days when HND was strictly domestic. Seoul ICN still have those flights to Busan and Daegu now. That would resolve the issue of inconvenient international/domestic connections easily.

Splitting connections always reduces demand. International needs domestic feed for passengers and freight.

Connections will not fill flights. Either the airport will be allowed international to domestic connections or competitors will fill the need.

I believe the major reason Mirabel failed is the lack of domestic to international connections compounded by two airports open.

Let us say demand between two city pairs us 400 seats per day to the city. International connections might allow another 100 seats. Domestic could ooen up say another 50. But start discussing a city with a quarter the demand (100+25+12) and you have the difference between a profitable A320 flight and an unprofitable one.

Never forfeit connections, that is throwing away good money.

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
User avatar
Antaras
Topic Author
Posts: 904
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:18 am

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:45 pm

Based on the local authorities, at the end of October, the province will transfer all the land to the government to start the first construction phase of the airport.
At this moment, the land-clearance and compensation process has been in the last phase and the gov is having efforts to make the project catch up the deadline.

http://www.baodongnai.com.vn/kinhte/202 ... 1-3023708/
Currently, for the project of Land Acquisition, Compensation, Support, and Resettlement at Long Thanh Airport, Dong Nai is concentrating on fulfilling its commitment to the Government that at the end of October to hand over more. 1.8 thousand hectares of land to invest in the construction of airport phase 1. Currently, we check the progress, still ensure as committed. The remaining problem now is that people who are relocated or cleared in the area have to find temporary shelter because the number of households who have to temporarily reside is also very large. Dong Nai will spend temporary housing and urge people after receiving the money to find a temporary place to transfer the premises in this area. According to the plan, on September 30, the authorities will organize for the resettled people to draw land in Loc An - Binh Son resettlement area. At the end of October, Dong Nai will hold a ceremony to hand over the area of ​​more than 1.8 thousand hectares to the investor.


The government said that they would lose billions of dollars if the project is delayed, so they are trying to seize the deadline and finalizing the final design of the airport.
Edit signature
This is a block of text that can be added to posts you make. There is a 255 character limit.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
Posts: 1119
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:38 pm

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:28 pm

Just for reference's sake, here's the size of Vietnam overlayed upon the west coast of the U.S.:

Image

The distances in this country are definitely not walkable, and ground-based transportation can't do the journey from one end to another in a day.

I highly recommend the site http://www.thetruesize.com for seeing just how big and/or small places are.
 
FromCDGtoSYD
Posts: 387
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:29 am

Re: Long Thanh Int'l Airport: Construction and Development Thread

Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:45 am

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Just for reference's sake, here's the size of Vietnam overlayed upon the west coast of the U.S.:

Image

The distances in this country are definitely not walkable, and ground-based transportation can't do the journey from one end to another in a day.

I highly recommend the site http://www.thetruesize.com for seeing just how big and/or small places are.


High speed rail could definitely do it in one day. Hanoi to HCMC would be about the same distance as Beijing to Shanghai and we all know how successful that is. Not saying that HCMC doesn't need a new airport but saying flights are the only solution for Vietnam isn't exactly true.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos