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barney captain
Posts: 2352
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

Re: FedEx plane makes emergency landing at LAX

Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:32 pm

Tankdiver wrote:
I took some photos of the aircraft today. I spoke to some of the guys working the night shift and they told me that the aircraft made several very low passes over 24R, then ATC had them land on 25R. They closed 25R for the entire day, and used 25L for both take off and landings. I left work around 6pm and saw them just finished unloading the cargo. My co-workers told that it was still there in the evening.


Just to clarify - "ATC" doesn't direct them to land on any specific runway. That decision originates from the cockpit.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
barney captain
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Re: FedEx plane makes emergency landing at LAX

Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:36 pm

estorilm wrote:
AirbusBoeing wrote:
Question for the experts:

If only one landing gear deployed, is it possible to only retract the rear landing gear? I think not, but wanted to confirm.

Is it safer to do a belly landing without landing gear, or with partially deployed gear as in this case?

Thanks.

That's a HUGE "negative" there - if you retract your only remaining MLG, you lose ALL hydraulic braking, and since you also just crushed your other engine into the ground - zero reverse thrust as well (though it's doubtful they used it here). While the friction would be greater, the angles involved would limit nose wheel function and likely collapse it.

Not that cost is MUCH of a factor, but you also needlessly destroy another ~$15 million dollar engine, plus insane amounts of additional wing/fuselage damage. This is a new aircraft so it'll be repaired, but a FULL belly landing may have still been cost-prohibitive to replace considering how flooded the market is right now.


Braking and reverse thrust are hardly a consideration with all landing gear retracted. Directional control is the primary consideration.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
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TheSpaceCadet
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Re: FedEx plane makes emergency landing at LAX

Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:21 pm

Looks like another FedEx B763 MAY have had a problem @ Medellin, Columbia - Landed 26 mins. after takeoff early Sat. morning (8/22):

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/FDX ... /SKRG/SKRG
 
Dauntless
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2018 11:59 am

Re: FedEx plane makes emergency landing at LAX

Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:51 pm

TheSpaceCadet wrote:
Looks like another FedEx B763 MAY have had a problem @ Medellin, Columbia - Landed 26 mins. after takeoff early Sat. morning (8/22):

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/FDX ... /SKRG/SKRG


it’s a glitch. Routing is SKBO - SKRG - KMIA.
 
889091
Posts: 211
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Re: FedEx plane makes emergency landing at LAX

Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:39 pm

I cannot believe in this day and age, we still have a simple piece of rope for the flight crew to egress the cockpit in case of an emergency. (737 and 767)

Wouldn't it be safer to have inertial reels, like what they have on the 747 and the 787 (unsure of the 777)?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2y5lNVbBeiU
 
barney captain
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Re: FedEx plane makes emergency landing at LAX

Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:54 pm

I cannot believe in this day and age, we still have a simple piece of rope for the flight crew to egress the cockpit in case of an emergency. (737 and 767)


The 767 does, as was explained in this post. The 737 is much lower to the ground.

AV8AJET wrote:

The B763F doesn't have slides, only escape reels for the L1 door or ropes from the FO's side cockpit #2 window.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
wjcandee
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Re: FedEx plane makes emergency landing at LAX

Sat Aug 22, 2020 8:30 pm

889091 wrote:
I cannot believe in this day and age, we still have a simple piece of rope for the flight crew to egress the cockpit in case of an emergency. (737 and 767)

Wouldn't it be safer to have inertial reels, like what they have on the 747 and the 787 (unsure of the 777)?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2y5lNVbBeiU


As explained elsewhere, they have inertial reels at L1. However, given that it spins away and slows down at the end, one wants to be sure that it slows down before one hits the ground. The reel is set to tighten as the diaper-wearer gets near the ground, but it is measured based on the aircraft being astride its landing gear. Stands to reason that the crew might not have wanted to risk a free-fall impact with the ground while strapped into the diaper, because the aircraft, tilted to the left due to no left landing gear, now had the L1 door several feet closer to the ground than it usually is. On Titanic, the listing made the lifeboats on one side dangling away from the ship and closer to the water, while on the other side, they were sliding down the side of the ship and having to let go significantly above the water. Same principle at work here.

I wouldn't be surprised if the union safety committee didn't think that maybe slides, which almost no carriers paid for on the 763F, would be a worthy investment, the expense and operational challenges that they will inevitably impose notwithstanding.
 
trnswrld
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Re: FedEx plane makes emergency landing at LAX

Sun Aug 23, 2020 1:04 am

^^^ I think the cockpit in this case was actually higher off the ground than normal and not lower even with the left side being tilted down slightly. If you notice the nose gear is practically off the ground....infact in the video as it stopped the nose gear actually did raise off the ground as it was teetering rearward off the engine.
 
atcdan
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Re: FedEx plane makes emergency landing at LAX

Sun Aug 23, 2020 5:19 am

barney captain wrote:
Tankdiver wrote:
I took some photos of the aircraft today. I spoke to some of the guys working the night shift and they told me that the aircraft made several very low passes over 24R, then ATC had them land on 25R. They closed 25R for the entire day, and used 25L for both take off and landings. I left work around 6pm and saw them just finished unloading the cargo. My co-workers told that it was still there in the evening.


Just to clarify - "ATC" doesn't direct them to land on any specific runway. That decision originates from the cockpit.


You’re absolutely correct except in this case both 25L and 25R were closed overnight for refinery venting operations that would pose a hazard to flight. The controllers in the tower coordinated with the city to see if they could reopen the runways for the emergency aircraft, and they were able to halt the refinery operations in time to open the runway for FedEx to use.

Granted, the PIC can land anywhere they want, even on a closed runway, but in this case the airport and ATC worked together to make the primary emergency runway open and safe for use.
Tower Controller
VNY, DFW, LAX
All posts are my own opinions and do not represent my employer or any government entity in any way!
 
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CitizenJustin
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Re: FedEx plane makes emergency landing at LAX

Sun Aug 23, 2020 5:45 am

atcdan wrote:
CitizenJustin wrote:
Probably would have caused real chaos had LAX been at normal capacity.


LAX is pretty typically a ghost town at 0400, doesn’t start to pick up in normal times until about 0515 or so.


Do you happen to know by what percentage traffic has decreased?
 
atcdan
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Re: FedEx plane makes emergency landing at LAX

Sun Aug 23, 2020 5:59 am

CitizenJustin wrote:
atcdan wrote:
CitizenJustin wrote:
Probably would have caused real chaos had LAX been at normal capacity.


LAX is pretty typically a ghost town at 0400, doesn’t start to pick up in normal times until about 0515 or so.


Do you happen to know by what percentage traffic has decreased?


In terms of aircraft movements it’s publicly available. 7/20/20 LAX ran 899 aircraft movements. The same day last year (3rd Monday of July) it was 2008 movements.
Tower Controller
VNY, DFW, LAX
All posts are my own opinions and do not represent my employer or any government entity in any way!
 
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CitizenJustin
Posts: 684
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Re: FedEx plane makes emergency landing at LAX

Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:21 am

atcdan wrote:
CitizenJustin wrote:
atcdan wrote:

LAX is pretty typically a ghost town at 0400, doesn’t start to pick up in normal times until about 0515 or so.


Do you happen to know by what percentage traffic has decreased?


In terms of aircraft movements it’s publicly available. 7/20/20 LAX ran 899 aircraft movements. The same day last year (3rd Monday of July) it was 2008 movements.



Thanks. Having a look at the numbers is quite sobering.
 
AntonioMartin
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Re: FedEx plane makes emergency landing at LAX

Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:28 am

bad day for cargo aircraft?
 
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litz
Posts: 2368
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Re: FedEx plane makes emergency landing at LAX

Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:21 pm

smithbs wrote:
Hey, no jokes about speed tape yet. Is this the a.net of an alternate universe? :duck:

From the looks of it I'd expect the aircraft to be repairable. It will take some work, but I imagine they'll get it there. Glad everyone made it.

I'm curious how they'll move it off the runway, though. Lift it in place, bring down the gear manually and then tow it off?


the LOT 767, they did just exactly that : jacked up the airplane, lowered the gear, and towed it off. In that case, the belly damage condemned the airframe and it was written off.

Damage in this case is limited to the single engine and nacelle, no doubt it'll get fixed and be back in service quickly.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: FedEx plane makes emergency landing at LAX

Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:32 pm

I'm missing the boat somehow. Can someone explain why this incident has created such an argument here? This certainly isn't the first plane with a landing gear issue. It's a painfully ordinary event to be honest.
 
2175301
Posts: 1892
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Re: FedEx plane makes emergency landing at LAX

Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:17 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
I'm missing the boat somehow. Can someone explain why this incident has created such an argument here? This certainly isn't the first plane with a landing gear issue. It's a painfully ordinary event to be honest.


The people on A-Net are not "ordinary" people, in case you forgot.

Thus, there is a lot of unordinary discussions and debate on items and theories...

Have a great day,
 
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Spacepope
Posts: 4705
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Re: FedEx plane makes emergency landing at LAX

Sun Aug 23, 2020 10:47 pm

AntonioMartin wrote:
bad day for cargo aircraft?


Ok, I’ll bite: what exactly do you mean by this?
The last of the famous international playboys
 
AntonioMartin
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Re: FedEx plane makes emergency landing at LAX

Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:49 pm

Spacepope wrote:
AntonioMartin wrote:
bad day for cargo aircraft?


Ok, I’ll bite: what exactly do you mean by this?

There was a crash of an AN26 cargo jet in South Sudan yesterday too with between 7 and 17 dead.
 
Canuck600
Posts: 292
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Re: FedEx plane makes emergency landing at LAX

Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:08 am

889091 wrote:
I cannot believe in this day and age, we still have a simple piece of rope for the flight crew to egress the cockpit in case of an emergency. (737 and 767)

Wouldn't it be safer to have inertial reels, like what they have on the 747 and the 787 (unsure of the 777)?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2y5lNVbBeiU


What's wrong with keeping it simple? The more complex something is the better the chance of failure..
 
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Spacepope
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Re: FedEx plane makes emergency landing at LAX

Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:47 am

AntonioMartin wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
AntonioMartin wrote:
bad day for cargo aircraft?


Ok, I’ll bite: what exactly do you mean by this?

There was a crash of an AN26 cargo jet in South Sudan yesterday too with between 7 and 17 dead.


So a bad day is 2 incidents 3 days apart? That’s stupid.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 4321
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Re: FedEx plane makes emergency landing at LAX

Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:34 am

Spacepope wrote:
AntonioMartin wrote:
Spacepope wrote:

Ok, I’ll bite: what exactly do you mean by this?

There was a crash of an AN26 cargo jet in South Sudan yesterday too with between 7 and 17 dead.


So a bad day is 2 incidents 3 days apart? That’s stupid.


to be fair, in the year 2020 time means nothing. days can be hours or weeks long.
 
AntonioMartin
Posts: 710
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Re: FedEx plane makes emergency landing at LAX

Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:21 am

Spacepope wrote:
AntonioMartin wrote:
Spacepope wrote:

Ok, I’ll bite: what exactly do you mean by this?

There was a crash of an AN26 cargo jet in South Sudan yesterday too with between 7 and 17 dead.


So a bad day is 2 incidents 3 days apart? That’s stupid.

I thought this was on the same day.
 
AntonioMartin
Posts: 710
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Re: FedEx plane makes emergency landing at LAX

Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:22 am

jetmatt777 wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
AntonioMartin wrote:
There was a crash of an AN26 cargo jet in South Sudan yesterday too with between 7 and 17 dead.


So a bad day is 2 incidents 3 days apart? That’s stupid.


to be fair, in the year 2020 time means nothing. days can be hours or weeks long.

Yes! I dont even remember the day we are at anymore...
 
basspaul
Posts: 41
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Re: FedEx plane makes emergency landing at LAX

Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:22 pm

Credit for the outcome goes to good pilot skills and the bonus of nice weather (though, luck is on your side at LAX for weather). As for the debate why the crew exited quickly using ropes, IMHO, having a plane full of cargo changes how quickly a fire can spread and intensity.
 
32andBelow
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Re: FedEx plane makes emergency landing at LAX

Mon Aug 24, 2020 6:09 pm

I can’t ever remember seeing a video like this were the pilot doesn’t do an absolutely fine job. Kinda weird
 
Max Q
Posts: 8505
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Re: FedEx plane makes emergency landing at LAX

Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:14 am

32andBelow wrote:
I can’t ever remember seeing a video like this were the pilot doesn’t do an absolutely fine job. Kinda weird



It’s true that normally (but not always) these events are well handled


Airline pilots for the most part are well trained and many are highly experienced, not to mention that FDX is right at the top of the tier in that category


As discussed earlier briefly though there’s a minority of cases where things don’t turn out as well and unfortunately due to crew error


The LOT 767 gear up landing was one of these, with vital CB’s not being reset the gear would not come down yet these were not discovered to be out until afterwards



I can guarantee you that crew couldn’t have felt worse, one thing airline pilots do fear most is making a mistake like that but no one’s immune
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
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aeromoe
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Re: FedEx plane makes emergency landing at LAX

Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:24 am

AirbusBoeing wrote:

If only one landing gear deployed, is it possible to only retract the rear landing gear?


What is a 'rear' landing gear?
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aeromoe
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Re: FedEx plane makes emergency landing at LAX

Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:32 am

Spacepope wrote:
FedEx only flies factory built freighters, not conversions.


You must be referring to just the 767 fleet since this thread is about a damaged 767, yes?
Since 60s: AA AC AS BA BD BF BN BR(85) BY B6 CO CZ(16) DG DL EA EI EN FI FL FT F9 HA HP ICX JI JQ J7 KE KL KS LH MC NW OC OO OZ(87) OZ(88) PA PI PN(97) PT QF QQ RM RO RV(99) RV(16) RW SK SM SQ S4 TI TS TW UA UK US UZ VS VX WA WN WS W7 XV YV YX(13) ZZ 9K
 
TC957
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Re: FedEx plane makes emergency landing at LAX

Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:32 am

OK, back on topic please ! Is there any video of how the stricken 767 was moved off the runway please ?
 
dcaviation
Posts: 488
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:26 am

Re: FedEx plane makes emergency landing at LAX

Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:29 pm

dcs921 wrote:
PANAMsterdam wrote:
Edit: I have one question for the experts here: why doesn't this 767 have winglets?


I'm not an expert.

FedEx doesn't have winglets on any of their 767s. A few years ago they had them on some leased 767s. IIRC all of them have been returned now.

Winglets are not installed from the factory. They are an aftermarket option but I don't think anybody is installing them anymore.


They had them on their own second hand aircraft. I think they lease all of their planes so why say that?
Both were ex Silk Way 767-300s. They are permanent part of FedEx fleet, not temporary lease (what you probably tried to imply).
The regs are N297FE and N298FE. When they had winglets, both planes were frequent visitors to Europe. In late 2018 or early 2019 FedEx removed the winglets from both planes. So if you have a picture of FedEx 767 with winglets then it's a small gem in your collection :)
 
dcs921
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:40 pm

Re: FedEx plane makes emergency landing at LAX

Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:04 pm

dcaviation wrote:
dcs921 wrote:
PANAMsterdam wrote:
Edit: I have one question for the experts here: why doesn't this 767 have winglets?


I'm not an expert.

FedEx doesn't have winglets on any of their 767s. A few years ago they had them on some leased 767s. IIRC all of them have been returned now.

Winglets are not installed from the factory. They are an aftermarket option but I don't think anybody is installing them anymore.


They had them on their own second hand aircraft. I think they lease all of their planes so why say that?
Both were ex Silk Way 767-300s. They are permanent part of FedEx fleet, not temporary lease (what you probably tried to imply).
The regs are N297FE and N298FE. When they had winglets, both planes were frequent visitors to Europe. In late 2018 or early 2019 FedEx removed the winglets from both planes. So if you have a picture of FedEx 767 with winglets then it's a small gem in your collection :)


I'm happy to be corrected but FedEx directly owns most if not all of their aircraft, including their small feeder aircraft. FedEx will acquire aircraft from a variety of sources.

I don't doubt that FedEx acquired the 2 aircraft that you reference and removed the winglets from them. The ones that I was referring to were leased from LATAM if IIRCC.

Edit: Checking FedEx's historic 767s on Plane Spotters.https://m.planespotters.net/airline/Federal-Express shows three 767s that were leased. N68077, N68078, and N68079 were all leased from LATAM Airlines group and all 3 had winglets.
 
dcaviation
Posts: 488
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:26 am

Re: FedEx plane makes emergency landing at LAX

Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:26 pm

dcs921 wrote:
N68077, N68078, and N68079 were all leased from LATAM Airlines group and all 3 had winglets.


Forgot about those. Very short lived. Flying for FedEx:
N68077 1 year and 6 months.
N68078 2 years 6 months.
N68079 3 years
 
btfarrwm
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri May 06, 2011 5:50 am

Re: FedEx plane makes emergency landing at LAX

Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:31 pm

32andBelow wrote:
I can’t ever remember seeing a video like this were the pilot doesn’t do an absolutely fine job. Kinda weird


The recent crash of the A320 in Pakistan is an example of a pilot doing the job of landing very poorly.

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