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Antarius
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Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:05 pm

ArcticSEA wrote:
Why do they even exist to begin with? KLM is more than enough capacity surely?


Same answer that applies to most government carriers. Its a measuring contest. There is no reason to have these government longhaul airlines - MH, SLM, Air India, PIA, TG etc. Are just ways to whip it around on the taxpayers dime. None of them make any money or sense.
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eta unknown
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Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:28 am

armagnac2010 wrote:
Does SLM buy their planes on EBay or something?!



This one is apparently leased from Boeing. No reason for post-colonial condescendence, conscious or unconscious ...

Single aircraft operations are always challenging. The Trent 800 is maintenance intensive, even with Rolls-Royce support.

The E-Bay comment has nothing to do with post colonial condescendence. The fact that you have linked the two shows some assumed unconscious condescendence.
 
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CrimsonNL
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Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:37 am

'TCU is headed for VCV today. Guess they did get that engine working.

SLM took delivery of the aircraft in December 2019, but only operated it commercially from December 2020 through February 2021. What a waste of money and resources..
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747classic
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Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Wed Mar 03, 2021 7:38 am

CrimsonNL wrote:
'TCU is headed for VCV today. Guess they did get that engine working.

SLM took delivery of the aircraft in December 2019, but only operated it commercially from December 2020 through February 2021. What a waste of money and resources..


In total 13 x PBM-AMS-PBM , 10 x with pax/freight , what would be the actual cost of each trip!

KLM, offer SLM a (dry leased) B772, against favourable conditions. KLM has more than sufficient aircraft for their current network
Only a RR - GE difference course would be required for the SLM crew to operate a KLM B772.
The new Surinam government is now more open for a renewed cooperation between KLM and SLM.
KLM could have the benefits of the lease + technical support + simulator training.
IMHO, a win-win situation and a gesture to the people of Suriname on behalf of the Dutch taxpayers, that provided huge financial support to KLM in these difficult times.
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
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747classic
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Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:57 am

CrimsonNL wrote:
'TCU is headed for VCV today. Guess they did get that engine working.

SLM took delivery of the aircraft in December 2019, but only operated it commercially from December 2020 through February 2021. What a waste of money and resources..


For PZ-TCU flight EHAM / AMS - KVCV / VCV : https://www.flightradar24.com/PYPZTCU/26f848a0
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
debonair
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Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Wed Mar 03, 2021 12:29 pm

CrimsonNL wrote:
Luchtvaartnieuws is reporting that SLM is already looking to get rid of the 777, and wants Boeing to take the plane back, possibly as soon as next week!


Hi! First airline to fly the B777 PZ-TCU was SIA, normally known for good maintenance. Also, the next operator NZ, is known for proper care and seems to have flown the aircraft without major hiccups. So, same as for the A340 operations, why this only happens to SLM?

As SLM still sales flights to AMS, I am just curious which sub-contractor will take over the route in longterm - I guess either AirBelgium or TUI NL.
 
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747classic
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Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Wed Mar 03, 2021 1:06 pm

Short term : Air Belgium - A343
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
caravellebleue
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Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Wed Mar 03, 2021 1:27 pm

Hello
Today march 3 their B772 PZ-TCU is flying now from AMS to VCV
And a Air Belgium A340 OO-ABB is flying from AMS to PBM on their flight PY993

Have a nice day
 
debonair
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Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:34 am

Thanks for all the answers, I guess most of the passengers will miss the comfort of the SIA interior. I will certainly miss the rainforest tail in AMS. :cry2:

Btw. their web-page needs some update as well, anyone recognise these interiors, maybe still from the A340? And no lounge access in AMS for J, true?!
https://www.flyslm.com/class-of-travel/
 
Thenoflyzone
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Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:21 am

Antarius wrote:
ArcticSEA wrote:
Why do they even exist to begin with? KLM is more than enough capacity surely?


There is no reason to have these government longhaul airlines - MH, SLM, Air India, PIA, TG etc. Are just ways to whip it around on the taxpayers dime. None of them make any money or sense.


I get your point, but you can't compare massive countries like India (pop. 1.3 billion), Pakistan (pop. 212 million), Thailand (pop. 66 million) and Malaysia (pop. 33 million) to a tiny country like Suriname (pop. 580,000). Those higher populated countries should be able to sustain a national airline with a long haul fleet (be it government owned or private). The fact that their respective national airlines lose money is a secondary issue. Suriname, on the other hand, doesn't need a national airline that flies to Europe.

KLM can take care of all the demand from Suriname to Europe. If the Surinamese government feels that the lack of competition will mean higher fares on KLM, they can always help subsidize the route, all the while enforcing fare control. It would still be cheaper than operating/maintaining a B777 or an A343 on a money losing route to Europe.
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Antarius
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Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:40 am

Thenoflyzone wrote:
Antarius wrote:
ArcticSEA wrote:
Why do they even exist to begin with? KLM is more than enough capacity surely?


There is no reason to have these government longhaul airlines - MH, SLM, Air India, PIA, TG etc. Are just ways to whip it around on the taxpayers dime. None of them make any money or sense.


I get your point, but you can't compare massive countries like India (pop. 1.3 billion), Pakistan (pop. 212 million), Thailand (pop. 66 million) and Malaysia (pop. 33 million) to a tiny country like Suriname (pop. 580,000). Those higher populated countries should be able to sustain a national airline with a long haul fleet (be it government owned or private). The fact that their respective national airlines lose money is a secondary issue. Suriname, on the other hand, doesn't need a national airline that flies to Europe.

KLM can take care of all the demand from Suriname to Europe. If the Surinamese government feels that the lack of competition will mean higher fares on KLM, they can always help subsidize the route, all the while enforcing fare control. It would still be cheaper than operating/maintaining a B777 or an A343 on a money losing route to Europe.


I would actually argue the opposite somewhat. A large country with a major economy and proximity to successful airlines means less reason for existence. If Air India vanished, they'd be minimal disruption. They're readily replaced. A small country needs a carrier to serve the routes that no one will do otherwise.

That said, SLM doesn't need to fly longhaul. Stick to domestic and serve the people. KLM can handle longhaul.
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zkojq
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Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:07 am

Sounds like getting rid of the A340 was a bit of a false economy.

ArcticSEA wrote:
Why do they even exist to begin with? KLM is more than enough capacity surely?


Without them KLM would have a monopoly on Europe to PBM....and would nodoubt charge monopoly prices.
First to fly the 787-9
 
airsmiles
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Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:51 am

zkojq wrote:
Sounds like getting rid of the A340 was a bit of a false economy.

ArcticSEA wrote:
Why do they even exist to begin with? KLM is more than enough capacity surely?


Without them KLM would have a monopoly on Europe to PBM....and would nodoubt charge monopoly prices.


That’s still not a reason to set up your own loss-making airline. The Surinam Government should save money and subsidise some KLM tickets.
 
JRadier
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Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:05 am

zkojq wrote:
Without them KLM would have a monopoly on Europe to PBM....and would nodoubt charge monopoly prices.

Not per-se. TUI already operated AMS-PBM before the COVID situation, and will keep KLM honest.
 
DALCE
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Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:35 am

debonair wrote:
Thanks for all the answers, I guess most of the passengers will miss the comfort of the SIA interior. I will certainly miss the rainforest tail in AMS. :cry2:



well this 777 made more test-flights than revenue flights in PY-service + all revenue flights were in CoVid-times. Guess not many pax ever were on board this aircraft during PY-service......
flown: F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,223,E75,E90,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,7M8
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debonair
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Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:06 pm

zkojq wrote:
Without them KLM would have a monopoly on Europe to PBM....and would nodoubt charge monopoly prices.


Maybe an opportunity for Corendon Dutch to fly to PBM with smaller B737-800? CND already operated to Natal in Brazil, so why not Suriname? :duck:
 
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747classic
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Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:28 pm

debonair wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Without them KLM would have a monopoly on Europe to PBM....and would nodoubt charge monopoly prices.


Maybe an opportunity for Corendon Dutch to fly to PBM with smaller B737-800? CND already operated to Natal in Brazil, so why not Suriname? :duck:

Nine (9) hours in a high density 189 seat 737-800/8 Max, what a nightmare, plus an awfull punctuallity, especially in the peak(summer) months.
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
FlyingHonu001
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Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:47 pm

747classic wrote:
debonair wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Without them KLM would have a monopoly on Europe to PBM....and would nodoubt charge monopoly prices.


Maybe an opportunity for Corendon Dutch to fly to PBM with smaller B737-800? CND already operated to Natal in Brazil, so why not Suriname? :duck:

Nine (9) hours in a high density 189 seat 737-800/8 Max, what a nightmare, plus an awfull punctuallity, especially in the peak(summer) months.


'Awful punctuality'... Nah man, in this part of the world, we call that seriously easy-going :cloudnine:
 
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747classic
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Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:12 pm

FlyingHonu001 wrote:
747classic wrote:
debonair wrote:

Maybe an opportunity for Corendon Dutch to fly to PBM with smaller B737-800? CND already operated to Natal in Brazil, so why not Suriname? :duck:

Nine (9) hours in a high density 189 seat 737-800/8 Max, what a nightmare, plus an awfull punctuallity, especially in the peak(summer) months.


'Awful punctuality'... Nah man, in this part of the world, we call that seriously easy-going :cloudnine:


It would be an easy competition for KLM with the 777W / 787X on the same route against a SLM (Corendon) 737-800/8Max.
The last time I was in Surinam (2019, just before covid), a lot of native Surinam people were complaining about the "awfull" punctuality, especially at the SLM PBM-AMS-PBM run and many were "defecting"already to KLM.
The shorthaul network , until 2017 operated with 3 737-300's , now with only two 737-700's , had far less cancellations /delays and was realy easy-going as I experienced myself many times at the PBM-POS-CUR run.
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
A388
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Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:05 pm

747classic wrote:
The shorthaul network , until 2017 operated with 3 737-300's , now with only two 737-700's , had far less cancellations /delays and was realy easy-going as I experienced myself many times at the PBM-POS-CUR run.


Nice that you were in Curacao! PY's flights to Curacao indeed were performing well when looking at its on-time performance. Their long haul aircraft were more prone to maintenance issues over the last years.

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MEA-707
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Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:48 pm

airsmiles wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Sounds like getting rid of the A340 was a bit of a false economy.

ArcticSEA wrote:
Why do they even exist to begin with? KLM is more than enough capacity surely?


Without them KLM would have a monopoly on Europe to PBM....and would nodoubt charge monopoly prices.


That’s still not a reason to set up your own loss-making airline. The Surinam Government should save money and subsidise some KLM tickets.

You guys forget the element of nationalism or patriotism. A part of the Surinamese population is so proud to have their own airline and wouldn't fly KLM, their former colonisator, if they were cheaper. Another part of their population, mostly with Asian roots, are much more pragmatic and wouldn't care less. Same reason you saw so many African countries with their own lossmaking airline.
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747classic
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Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:15 pm

MEA-707 wrote:
airsmiles wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Sounds like getting rid of the A340 was a bit of a false economy.



Without them KLM would have a monopoly on Europe to PBM....and would nodoubt charge monopoly prices.


That’s still not a reason to set up your own loss-making airline. The Surinam Government should save money and subsidise some KLM tickets.

You guys forget the element of nationalism or patriotism. A part of the Surinamese population is so proud to have their own airline and wouldn't fly KLM, their former colonisator, if they were cheaper. Another part of their population, mostly with Asian roots, are much more pragmatic and wouldn't care less. Same reason you saw so many African countries with their own lossmaking airline.


The newly elected Surinam government is planning to further improve the relations with the Netherlands again, after the Dutch ambassador in Surinam was forced in 2017 to leave by the former government.
End of 2020 both ambassadors have already been re-installed,
IMO it would be a nice gesture from KLM to offer a 777-200ER to SLM against favourable conditions and to offer maintenance and operational support.
As already mentioned before in this thread, I see it as a gesture to the people of Suriname on behalf of the Dutch taxpayer, that provided huge financial support to KLM in these difficult covid-19 times.............
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
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CrimsonNL
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Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:50 pm

debonair wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Without them KLM would have a monopoly on Europe to PBM....and would nodoubt charge monopoly prices.


Maybe an opportunity for Corendon Dutch to fly to PBM with smaller B737-800? CND already operated to Natal in Brazil, so why not Suriname? :duck:


They would have to fly an additional 737-800 behind it to carry all the luggage (not kidding!)

In a previous life I was sort of involved professionally with PY. Once they chartered a EuroAtlantic 763 for the flight over to PBM. The crew had made their own weight calculations with like 1 bag / 18kg of baggage per person. Upon departure they got the final figures of like 550-600 bags, which they couldn't believe was real. The entire aircraft had to be reloaded and cargo was left behind to get below MTOW :roll:
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FCOTSTW
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Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:58 pm

They could rent an aircraft carrier from the U.S. Navy in order to land in mid-ocean, take a smoking break, and leave again. Problem solved!
 
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Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:23 pm

Yeah, I wanna know the exact route this aircraft takes.
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LJ
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Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:08 pm

What about the 787 they would receive from Boeing Capital? I recall they wanted to replace the 777 with a 787 in May.
 
Thenoflyzone
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Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:21 pm

CrimsonNL wrote:
debonair wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Without them KLM would have a monopoly on Europe to PBM....and would nodoubt charge monopoly prices.


Maybe an opportunity for Corendon Dutch to fly to PBM with smaller B737-800? CND already operated to Natal in Brazil, so why not Suriname? :duck:


They would have to fly an additional 737-800 behind it to carry all the luggage (not kidding!)


What he failed to mention is that the flights to Natal had a fuel stop in Banjul, Gambia, and didn't last lost to begin with. Both legs are well within the range of a fully loaded B738NG.

https://aeronauticsonline.com/corendon- ... 11%20hours.

http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=ams-bjl-pbm& ... 0x540&PM=*

The flights to Natal were aimed at the European tourist crown. Suriname doesn't serve that purpose (at least not to the same extent). AMS-PBM is more of a VFR route, with heavy cargo loads. So Corendon isn't well placed to serve it.

CrimsonNL wrote:
In a previous life I was sort of involved professionally with PY. Once they chartered a EuroAtlantic 763 for the flight over to PBM. The crew had made their own weight calculations with like 1 bag / 18kg of baggage per person. Upon departure they got the final figures of like 550-600 bags, which they couldn't believe was real. The entire aircraft had to be reloaded and cargo was left behind to get below MTOW :roll:


Again, the crew mistook AMS-PBM for a leisure route, instead of a VFR one. With the former, assuming each passenger only has 1 bag is accurate. Not so with the latter. Silly mistake by the crew, but then again, maybe PY should have given EuroAtlantic all the info required ref. the average baggage load per passenger. it's also weird that the crew would do their own calculations. Everything should have been done by dispatch. How long ago was this?
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
hooverman
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Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:24 am

747classic wrote:
MEA-707 wrote:
airsmiles wrote:

That’s still not a reason to set up your own loss-making airline. The Surinam Government should save money and subsidise some KLM tickets.

You guys forget the element of nationalism or patriotism. A part of the Surinamese population is so proud to have their own airline and wouldn't fly KLM, their former colonisator, if they were cheaper. Another part of their population, mostly with Asian roots, are much more pragmatic and wouldn't care less. Same reason you saw so many African countries with their own lossmaking airline.


The newly elected Surinam government is planning to further improve the relations with the Netherlands again, after the Dutch ambassador in Surinam was forced in 2017 to leave by the former government.
End of 2020 both ambassadors have already been re-installed,
IMO it would be a nice gesture from KLM to offer a 777-200ER to SLM against favourable conditions and to offer maintenance and operational support.
As already mentioned before in this thread, I see it as a gesture to the people of Suriname on behalf of the Dutch taxpayer, that provided huge financial support to KLM in these difficult covid-19 times.............


What a strange reason to offer them a cheap 777.
 
FlyingHonu001
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Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:47 am

Doesnt KL still has one more 747 in its backyard? Why not offer that one? At least that one has a bonafide ETOPS. Maintenance might become tricky, yes but im sure some KL engineers would like to help keeping that bird in the sky as long as possible.
 
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Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:16 am

FlyingHonu001 wrote:
Doesnt KL still has one more 747 in its backyard? Why not offer that one? At least that one has a bonafide ETOPS. Maintenance might become tricky, yes but im sure some KL engineers would like to help keeping that bird in the sky as long as possible.


Fun fact, it's been done 20 years before when Surinam Airways received a B747-300 from KLM which became PZ-TCM. The aircraft was brought back out of storage & was given a heavy check by KLM in AMS before going to SLM. Here too a lot of techinical delays were eventualy suffered en the same talk of retiring the aircraft was around. This was with KLM support in AMS. When it finally was retired after about 3 or 4 years KLM had to do another check before it could be flown back into storage. According to a friend of mine who then worked on the aircraft both times, it left AMS in a good as new condition but came back in a state that was very much different.

With much the same on the A340-300s that followed now it's this B777's turn. I assume you get back what you put into it and if that's the case then the next generation is eventually not going to do much better. Let them get their B787 and see how they manage with that over the next few years.If it runs down the same then it's probably better for everyone to continue a wet lease with a 3rd carrier instead of operating own metal.
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747classic
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Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:30 am

FlyingHonu001 wrote:
Doesnt KL still has one more 747 in its backyard? Why not offer that one? At least that one has a bonafide ETOPS. Maintenance might become tricky, yes but im sure some KL engineers would like to help keeping that bird in the sky as long as possible.


The last remaining KLM 744 (PH-BFV) is a dedicated combi, no provisions for a full pax operation are installed, no full pax conversion kit available and seems to be sold already.
Last edited by 747classic on Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:51 am

9MMPQ wrote:

Fun fact, it's been done 20 years before when Surinam Airways received a B747-300 from KLM which became PZ-TCM. The aircraft was brought back out of storage & was given a heavy check by KLM in AMS before going to SLM. Here too a lot of techinical delays were eventualy suffered en the same talk of retiring the aircraft was around. This was with KLM support in AMS. When it finally was retired after about 3 or 4 years KLM had to do another check before it could be flown back into storage. According to a friend of mine who then worked on the aircraft both times, it left AMS in a good as new condition but came back in a state that was very much different.

With much the same on the A340-300s that followed now it's this B777's turn. I assume you get back what you put into it and if that's the case then the next generation is eventually not going to do much better. Let them get their B787 and see how they manage with that over the next few years.If it runs down the same then it's probably better for everyone to continue a wet lease with a 3rd carrier instead of operating own metal.


The SLM 747-300 was operated after all 747-300's with KLM were already retired. So the pool of licenced ground engineers became smaller, also the spare part position deteriorated.
IMO , the only way to operate a longhaul fleet with only one aircraft is to have the same aircaft type available as back up at one of the two destinations (PBM or AMS).
Because PBM has practically no other long range traffic only AMS can be used for technical support and as back up aircraft location.
Also the same type of aircraft must be fully operational with the supporting airline (KLM, TUI, etc)

In the past the perfect cooperation SLM-KLM was during 1975-1983, one aircraft (PH-DEM) of the KLM DC8-63 fleet was leased to SLM in full SLM livery and if not used on certain days was operasted by KLM. If the SLM aircraft was down for maintenance , another DC8-63 was substituted.
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
A388
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Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:55 pm

I also think a cooperation between KLM and SLM to be the best and cheapest solution, especially if KLM can give them favorable terms. I would actually temporarily stop the AMS flights if I was SLM because they don't have any money and there are not many people traveling anyways the coming months so why pay so much money to lease that Air Belgium A343 now? They can literally save tons of money by just temporarily stopping their AMS flights but as someone else pointed out, there are those diehard national airline supporters in Surinam who want to see their own airline keep flying, no matter what. I hope SLM can find a good and permanent solution for their AMS flights.

A388
 
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Momo1435
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Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:59 pm

There should be plenty of 2nd hand metal on the market right now, I don't see why KLM has to be involved with SLMs issues right now.

SLM might having a much bigger issue with AA starting Miami - Parimaribo this summer.
 
A388
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Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:10 pm

Momo1435 wrote:
There should be plenty of 2nd hand metal on the market right now, I don't see why KLM has to be involved with SLMs issues right now.

SLM might having a much bigger issue with AA starting Miami - Parimaribo this summer.


KLM shouldn't be involved in SLM's issues and that isn't what is being implied here. We just think that KLM supporting SLM operationally and technically. Of course SLM must do it themselves and pay for KLM's support but other than that KLM won't feel any of SLM's issues.

SLM indeed has more problems with AA starting direct flights from MIA to PBM. Hopefully all this competition will force SLM to improve their service on all levels towards its customers, they have to if they want to keep their customers.

A388
 
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CrimsonNL
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Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:30 pm

Thenoflyzone wrote:

Again, the crew mistook AMS-PBM for a leisure route, instead of a VFR one. With the former, assuming each passenger only has 1 bag is accurate. Not so with the latter. Silly mistake by the crew, but then again, maybe PY should have given EuroAtlantic all the info required ref. the average baggage load per passenger. it's also weird that the crew would do their own calculations. Everything should have been done by dispatch. How long ago was this?


Maybe 4-5 years ago? EuroAtlantic was often interesting. At one point they had one 763 AOG in AMS, one 763 AOG in PBM, and their 772 was operating the 992/993 run :lol:
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747classic
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Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:43 pm

A tribute to the Surinam Airways B777-200ER PZ-TCU : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LILI0xwlBGM
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
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747classic
Posts: 3848
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:13 am

Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Sun Jul 04, 2021 10:14 am

SLM's financial position is further detiorating :
- more than $100.000.000 debts.
- the domestic fleet of two 737-700 aircraft has also been reduced to zero aircraft.
- PZ-TCS has been returned to the lessor DAE Capital .
- PZ-TCT has been impounded at June 12th 2021 at MIA due unpaid leasing costs and has been ferried towards MZJ at June 22th.

All remaining flights will be operated by hired aircraft at temporally contracts.

According this article (in Dutch) SLM is now talking with KLM (and the Dutch Government) for a possible lease of KLM aircraft (772 and 737NG) and some Dutch Government aid, see : https://luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/cate ... en-van-klm
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
FlyingHonu001
Posts: 446
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:33 pm

Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Sun Jul 04, 2021 10:23 am

747classic wrote:
SLM's financial position is further detiorating :
- more than $100.000.000 debts.
- the domestic fleet of two 737-700 aircraft has also been reduced to zero aircraft.
- PZ-TCS has been returned to the lessor DAE Capital .
- PZ-TCT has been impounded at June 12th 2021 at MIA due unpaid leasing costs and has been ferried towards MZJ at June 22th.

All remaining flights will be operated by hired aircraft at temporally contracts.

According this article (in Dutch) SLM is now talking with KLM (and the Dutch Government) for a possible lease of KLM aircraft, see : https://luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/cate ... en-van-klm


Millions of dollars in debt and its still wetleasing airplanes?? :dollarsign: :shock: Thats no airline anymore, its a financial sinkhole...better to fold it now and put it out of its misery
 
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intrance
Posts: 108
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:35 pm

Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Sun Jul 04, 2021 10:58 am

The question is, who is leasing out their aircraft and crew to a company so deep in debt, only to be in the back of the line of creditors if SLM does fold?
 
debonair
Posts: 4247
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:50 pm

Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:21 pm

It seems World Atlantic took over: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/py462

According to SLM homepage also the next flights:
Flight operated by Surinam Airways AUA PY 462 MD83
 
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747classic
Posts: 3848
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:13 am

Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Mon Jul 05, 2021 5:11 am

Only for this month (July 2021) World Atlantic Airlines has been contracted to operate Paramaribo – Aruba – Miami
See (in Dutch) : https://www.waterkant.net/suriname/2021 ... -en-miami/
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
LJ
Posts: 5466
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Mon Jul 05, 2021 7:41 am

FlyingHonu001 wrote:
747classic wrote:
SLM's financial position is further detiorating :
- more than $100.000.000 debts.
- the domestic fleet of two 737-700 aircraft has also been reduced to zero aircraft.
- PZ-TCS has been returned to the lessor DAE Capital .
- PZ-TCT has been impounded at June 12th 2021 at MIA due unpaid leasing costs and has been ferried towards MZJ at June 22th.

All remaining flights will be operated by hired aircraft at temporally contracts.

According this article (in Dutch) SLM is now talking with KLM (and the Dutch Government) for a possible lease of KLM aircraft, see : https://luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/cate ... en-van-klm


Millions of dollars in debt and its still wetleasing airplanes?? :dollarsign: :shock: Thats no airline anymore, its a financial sinkhole...better to fold it now and put it out of its misery


KLM has an (political) interest in ensuring that SLM remains. The same applies to the Dutch government. It's not always economics which dictate a decision.
 
MEA-707
Posts: 3855
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 1999 4:51 am

Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Mon Jul 05, 2021 9:21 am

intrance wrote:
The question is, who is leasing out their aircraft and crew to a company so deep in debt, only to be in the back of the line of creditors if SLM does fold?

No doubt World Atlantic, Air Belgium and others negotiated to ake sure they get paid, probably SLM has to put a deposit on a blocked bank account for them (which they can't retreive when the flight takes places as promised), sort of comparible as how eBay and other Consumer to consumer dealings are secured.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
MEA-707
Posts: 3855
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 1999 4:51 am

Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Mon Jul 05, 2021 9:21 am

MEA-707 wrote:
intrance wrote:
The question is, who is leasing out their aircraft and crew to a company so deep in debt, only to be in the back of the line of creditors if SLM does fold?

No doubt World Atlantic, Air Belgium and others negotiated to make sure they get paid, probably SLM has to put a deposit on a blocked bank account for them (which they can't retreive when the flight takes places as promised), sort of comparible as how eBay and other Consumer to consumer dealings are secured
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
FlyingHonu001
Posts: 446
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:33 pm

Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Mon Jul 05, 2021 11:19 am

MEA-707 wrote:
MEA-707 wrote:
intrance wrote:
The question is, who is leasing out their aircraft and crew to a company so deep in debt, only to be in the back of the line of creditors if SLM does fold?

No doubt World Atlantic, Air Belgium and others negotiated to make sure they get paid, probably SLM has to put a deposit on a blocked bank account for them (which they can't retreive when the flight takes places as promised), sort of comparible as how eBay and other Consumer to consumer dealings are secured


PY is a state-owned company, so everything is paid for directly by the taxpaying citizen. So their negotiating tactics are very much politically motivated and not exactly based on the survival of the company. Its all very sketchy tbh...
 
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Dutchy
Topic Author
Posts: 12418
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Mon Jul 05, 2021 8:06 pm

LJ wrote:
[KLM has an (political) interest in ensuring that SLM remains. The same applies to the Dutch government. It's not always economics which dictate a decision.


sure, not all decisions are just about economics. Perhaps the Dutch government could lend a hand, there is a large group of people of Surinam descent in Holland, but why would KLM? Wouldn't they be fine with no competition between AMS and Paramaribo? Perhaps KLM could take over SLM? Then I could see a case ;-)
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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747classic
Posts: 3848
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:13 am

Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Mon Jul 05, 2021 8:30 pm

Dutchy wrote:
LJ wrote:
[KLM has an (political) interest in ensuring that SLM remains. The same applies to the Dutch government. It's not always economics which dictate a decision.


sure, not all decisions are just about economics. Perhaps the Dutch government could lend a hand, there is a large group of people of Surinam descent in Holland, but why would KLM? Wouldn't they be fine with no competition between AMS and Paramaribo? Perhaps KLM could take over SLM? Then I could see a case ;-)


I don't think that KLM is at this moment in time in a position to demand anything, seen all the aid they received from the Dutch Government during the covid-19 pandemic.
The Dutch Government could ask (or demand) that SLM can get some support from KLM , perhaps in the form of leasing some KLM aircraft to SLM, incl. training facilities and maintenance.
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
debonair
Posts: 4247
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:50 pm

Re: SLM new 777 and ETOPS

Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:21 am

747classic wrote:
Only for this month (July 2021) World Atlantic Airlines has been contracted to operate Paramaribo – Aruba – Miami
See (in Dutch) : https://www.waterkant.net/suriname/2021 ... -en-miami/


Seems SkyCana A321 9H-AME is the latest choice: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/9h-ame

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