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amirs
Topic Author
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:49 pm

Avgeek21 wrote:
amax1977 wrote:
I completely agree with you. I understand El Al is in deep financial crap now, but for the sake of their reputation, they should have the planned to send their 787 or at least a 777.

edealinfo wrote:

Yikes; this is poor marketing in my opinion. i would assume the press would cover this extensively and when you have TV cameras - size does matter. Does El Al have a marketing department?


I applaud them for making a very sensible decision. When you are laying of people you just can not justify a 787/777. Especially in these times. And especially not if you value your workforce and stakeholders. I know it's historic but you have to use common sense too.


Sources say a 737 was chosen over a 787 , because the 737 has an anti-missile system, originally a 787 was chosen
 
edealinfo
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:53 pm

Avgeek21 wrote:
amax1977 wrote:
I completely agree with you. I understand El Al is in deep financial crap now, but for the sake of their reputation, they should have the planned to send their 787 or at least a 777.

edealinfo wrote:

Yikes; this is poor marketing in my opinion. i would assume the press would cover this extensively and when you have TV cameras - size does matter. Does El Al have a marketing department?


I applaud them for making a very sensible decision. When you are laying of people you just can not justify a 787/777. Especially in these times. And especially not if you value your workforce and stakeholders. I know it's historic but you have to use common sense too.


This requires long term thinking. El Al is begging for Saudi overflights and the more positive publicity for the inaugural, the better the chances ( an non event 737 isn't exactly a way to generate more +ve publicity). El Al should not fall into the trap of being penny wise pound foolish.
 
SueD
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:50 pm

El Al air tested a 737-900NG a few days ago so it’s likely to be 4X-EHD . The rest of the fleet remains glued to the tarmac at the moment
 
amax1977
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:21 pm

Avgeek21 wrote:
amax1977 wrote:
I completely agree with you. I understand El Al is in deep financial crap now, but for the sake of their reputation, they should have the planned to send their 787 or at least a 777.

edealinfo wrote:

Yikes; this is poor marketing in my opinion. i would assume the press would cover this extensively and when you have TV cameras - size does matter. Does El Al have a marketing department?


I applaud them for making a very sensible decision. When you are laying of people you just can not justify a 787/777. Especially in these times. And especially not if you value your workforce and stakeholders. I know it's historic but you have to use common sense too.


They could make it a very profitable flight if planned to bring the 787 or the 777 and beside the US & Israeli officials fill it up also with Israeli businessmen and avgeeks and charge them for their tickets. Lots of Israeli businessmen and avgeeks would have loved to be on this historic flight and pay for their tickets, too. I personally would have loved to be on this flight and I would pay premium fare for it. I can imagine Sam Chui is doing anything right now to get himself a seat on that flight! Hahaha
 
amirs
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Re: First TLV - UAE flightd

Sun Aug 30, 2020 12:13 pm

amax1977 wrote:
Avgeek21 wrote:
amax1977 wrote:
I completely agree with you. I understand El Al is in deep financial crap now, but for the sake of their reputation, they should have the planned to send their 787 or at least a 777.



I applaud them for making a very sensible decision. When you are laying of people you just can not justify a 787/777. Especially in these times. And especially not if you value your workforce and stakeholders. I know it's historic but you have to use common sense too.


They could make it a very profitable flight if planned to bring the 787 or the 777 and beside the US & Israeli officials fill it up also with Israeli businessmen and avgeeks and charge them for their tickets. Lots of Israeli businessmen and avgeeks would have loved to be on this historic flight and pay for their tickets, too. I personally would have loved to be on this flight and I would pay premium fare for it. I can imagine Sam Chui is doing anything right now to get himself a seat on that flight! Hahaha

To get a seat on this flight you needs to go through the White House
I am sure both airlines (or all three EK, EY and LY) will make a big spectacle of the first real commercial flight .
 
xwb777
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:21 pm

Here is the correct flight path.
Source: whatsapp (unknown)
Image


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Boof02671
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:35 pm

It’s a charter flight. Not open to the public nor tickets sold. No need to take a widebody for what 30 people?
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:43 pm

When is the first regular commercial flight (not just a one-off charter), which will accept any ordinary person with a passport valid for entry into Israel/UAE and pays for a ticket, planned to be ?
 
Blerg
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:55 pm

Pictures surfaced of the B739 receiving special sticker with the word peace in English, Hebrew and Arabic next to L1 door.
 
Boof02671
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:05 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
When is the first regular commercial flight (not just a one-off charter), which will accept any ordinary person with a passport valid for entry into Israel/UAE and pays for a ticket, planned to be ?

They haven’t negotiated a bilateral yet.
 
xwb777
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:37 pm

Blerg wrote:
Pictures surfaced of the B739 receiving special sticker with the word peace in English, Hebrew and Arabic next to L1 door.

Image


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factsonly
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:25 am

This historic flight with LY B739 4X-EHD now in the air as LY971:

https://www.flightradar24.com/ELY971/255e1320

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-53971256
 
aschachter
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:34 am

factsonly wrote:
This historic flight with LY B739 4X-EHD now in the air as LY971:

https://www.flightradar24.com/ELY971/255e1320

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-53971256



Over Saudi Arabia as I type :)

https://www.flightradar24.com/ELY971/255e1320
 
Pavlakakos
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:39 am

edealinfo wrote:
upintheair2019 wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Thanks. Will they be using a 787 for this flight?


Sources close to the airline say it will be a Boeing 737-900ER (4X-EHD).


Yikes; this is poor marketing in my opinion. i would assume the press would cover this extensively and when you have TV cameras - size does matter. Does El Al have a marketing department?


Their 787's are not yet equipped with the defensive systems installed on other LY planes.

Flight is on the air atm. Trully historic moment.
https://www.flightradar24.com/ELY971/255e1320

Fun fact: 971 is UAE country code. 972 is the Israeli country code which will be the # of returning flight.
 
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erikgrinsvall
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:30 am

I was pretty sure that they would file for Al Dhafra AFB - but nice to see that they decided for AUH.
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:44 am

This may be officially a commercial flight, but it is in effect a diplomatic/Govt flight, and security will be handled accordingly. You might as well change the logo on the plane today to say 'United States of America'
 
Pavlakakos
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:03 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
This may be officially a commercial flight, but it is in effect a diplomatic/Govt flight, and security will be handled accordingly. You might as well change the logo on the plane today to say 'United States of America'


I guess you could change the logo, but yet the fact remains that an aircraft with David's star on its tail just overflew Riyadh. If someone told me this 2 weeks ago, i'd be laughing, just for absurdity's sake.
 
Fuling
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:07 am

Direct me if I've missed it, but what will happen with a diversion in Saudi Arabia?
 
xwb777
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:50 am

The aircraft has landed. Parking brakes on!
 
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erikgrinsvall
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:18 pm

 
raylee67
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:53 pm

So it really flew over KSA, directly over Riyadh no less.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flig ... 1#255e1320

Just thinking big here. Could it imply KSA may be the next Arab country recognizing Israel? That would be big since KSA is the religious leader of the Sunni Muslims. If KSA moves forward, I see many Muslim nations moving forward. Also it would be a good way for KSA to repay Trump on his support on so many things.

If that happens, we could see flights from BAH, RUH, KUL, etc. to TLV soon.
319/20/21 332/33 342/43/45 359/51 388 707 717 732/36/3G/38/39 74R/42/43/44/4E/48 757 762/63 772/7L/73/7W 788/89 D10 M80 135/40/45 175/90 DH1/4 CRJ/R7 L10
AY LH OU SR BA FI LX
AA DL UA NW AC CP WS FL NK PD
CI NH SQ KA CX JL BR OZ TG KE CA CZ NZ JQ RS
 
Breathe
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:58 pm

Crikey! Seeing an Etihad plane at TLV was one thing, but seeing an El Al plane at AUH is something almost as unimaginable as Leicester City winning the Premier League at the start of the 2015-16 season.
 
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lesfalls
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:47 pm

raylee67 wrote:
So it really flew over KSA, directly over Riyadh no less.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flig ... 1#255e1320

Just thinking big here. Could it imply KSA may be the next Arab country recognizing Israel? That would be big since KSA is the religious leader of the Sunni Muslims. If KSA moves forward, I see many Muslim nations moving forward. Also it would be a good way for KSA to repay Trump on his support on so many things.

If that happens, we could see flights from BAH, RUH, KUL, etc. to TLV soon.


A small but interesting to point out is that the flight also flew over Oman for a short time. Could it mean MCT too in the near future? If I'm not mistaken Oman has some type of accord for overflight rights with Israel already.
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen besser.
 
CALMSP
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:59 pm

lesfalls wrote:
raylee67 wrote:
So it really flew over KSA, directly over Riyadh no less.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flig ... 1#255e1320

Just thinking big here. Could it imply KSA may be the next Arab country recognizing Israel? That would be big since KSA is the religious leader of the Sunni Muslims. If KSA moves forward, I see many Muslim nations moving forward. Also it would be a good way for KSA to repay Trump on his support on so many things.

If that happens, we could see flights from BAH, RUH, KUL, etc. to TLV soon.


A small but interesting to point out is that the flight also flew over Oman for a short time. Could it mean MCT too in the near future? If I'm not mistaken Oman has some type of accord for overflight rights with Israel already.


I'd expect Oman to jump on board soon, Saudi within 12 months.
 
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Mistral1
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:05 pm

I never thought I would see this day. Great news, hope some other arab countries will follow.
 
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b727fan
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:45 pm

lesfalls wrote:
raylee67 wrote:
So it really flew over KSA, directly over Riyadh no less.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flig ... 1#255e1320

Just thinking big here. Could it imply KSA may be the next Arab country recognizing Israel? That would be big since KSA is the religious leader of the Sunni Muslims. If KSA moves forward, I see many Muslim nations moving forward. Also it would be a good way for KSA to repay Trump on his support on so many things.

If that happens, we could see flights from BAH, RUH, KUL, etc. to TLV soon.


A small but interesting to point out is that the flight also flew over Oman for a short time. Could it mean MCT too in the near future? If I'm not mistaken Oman has some type of accord for overflight rights with Israel already.

My thoughts exactly!

I think Bahrain and Doha will be next << the latter will also pave the way for resolving the Qatar / GCC rift. KSA has already nodded (diplomatically) , Kuwait and Iraq will follow suit. I think Iraq sooner than Kuwait.
 
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b727fan
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:49 pm

Mistral1 wrote:
I never thought I would see this day. Great news, hope some other arab countries will follow.


Hopefully we will see more positive developments coming out of this deal. God knows the world needs some goodness right now! :whiteflag: :wave:
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:51 pm

Try not to get too excited. Air links between Tel Aviv and Baghdad are unlikely to happen any time soon
 
AshFlops
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:31 am

b727fan wrote:
lesfalls wrote:
raylee67 wrote:
So it really flew over KSA, directly over Riyadh no less.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flig ... 1#255e1320

Just thinking big here. Could it imply KSA may be the next Arab country recognizing Israel? That would be big since KSA is the religious leader of the Sunni Muslims. If KSA moves forward, I see many Muslim nations moving forward. Also it would be a good way for KSA to repay Trump on his support on so many things.

If that happens, we could see flights from BAH, RUH, KUL, etc. to TLV soon.


A small but interesting to point out is that the flight also flew over Oman for a short time. Could it mean MCT too in the near future? If I'm not mistaken Oman has some type of accord for overflight rights with Israel already.

My thoughts exactly!

I think Bahrain and Doha will be next << the latter will also pave the way for resolving the Qatar / GCC rift. KSA has already nodded (diplomatically) , Kuwait and Iraq will follow suit. I think Iraq sooner than Kuwait.


I believe that flights will start with DXB and AUH, due to the business and tourism links, not the mention the massive connections to MNL/SIN/AUSNZ. BAH and MCT would follow. But there is little reason for flights to DOH, KWI, or Baghdad. Those places can be served via DXB. JED would be the first in KSA, to accommodate Hajj for Israeli Arabs. Don't forget that Qatar is on Iran's side in the whole Middle East conflict.
 
amirs
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:59 am

interesting article about the 787 and anti missile
system .
Basically explains that Boeing asked for tens of millions of dollars for information on where best to mount the anti-missile on the 787 , so the 737 was picked for now . They are still in negotiations with Boeing on the issue .
it also states that the 777 will probably not be returned to passenger service .
i figures that , but thought they might leave ECE and ECF In the fleet for NYC and BKK with new updated interiors
https://www.calcalist.co.il/local/ar...847311,00.html
 
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chunhimlai
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:18 am

Is there any Israel - UAE flight service before WW2?
 
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rida79
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:20 am

chunhimlai wrote:
Is there any Israel - UAE flight service before WW2?



There was no UAE nor Israel prior to WWII. Also, There were few local airlines in the region at that time. However, there used to be a flight between Jerusalem and a few Arab cities (e.g. Beirut, Kuwait, Damascus...etc) but they were suspended in 1967 after the annexation of Jerusalem in the aftermath of the 6 day war.
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:34 am

AshFlops wrote:
raylee67 wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
New York to Tel Aviv via Dubai is an extra 5 hours of time in the air. Add time taxiing, changing planes, etc.... and you're looking at maybe an extra 8 or more hours travel time. Yes, some people will want to save the money by going for the absolute cheapest ticket - but to an airline, this translate into "low yield". If Emirates or Etihad really do price Tel Aviv - N.America below that of non-stop flights, they have a significant cost disadvantage compared to European airlines - in that they have to fly the passenger *much* further to get them to their destination
Stick the routes in Great Circle Mapper if you don't believe me - and then compare with flying via places like London, Paris, Moscow or Istanbul
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=NYC-TLV%0D ... =wls&DU=mi

Israel - N.America is a route where Emirates or Etihad are going to struggle to make a profit while carrying large numbers of pax

I think it's unlikely that there will be a freedom-of-the-skies deal for UAE carriers to fly between Israel and countries other than the UAE. Emirates flying non-stop between Tel Aviv and the USA seems highly unlikely. There will be plenty of opportunity for EK/EY to connect pax between Tel Aviv and Asia / Australasia / East Africa


TLV-JFK passengers who want it cheap will go with TK and any other European carriers that happen to offer a low fare at the dates they want to fly. EK and EY would be a major back-track, especially assuming that DXB/AUH-TLV will not be flying the shortest route over Saudi Arabia.

But EK and EY will capture a large proportion of the traffic between Asia and Israel. Business travel between Asia and Israel was on the rise before COVID. There are also steady Christian pilgrimage traffic, especially between Philippines and Korea and Israel. Those are more price sensitive and the connection at DXB will actually provide better frequency. ICN-TLV on KE was less than daily and there is no non-stop to MNL. TLV doesn't really have a lot of non-stop destinations for East Asia now. There aren't even a lot of choices for connections now unless you backtrack via IST or Europe.


North America to Israel traffic that is looking for the absolute lowest price point will route through Moscow, Warsaw, or Kiev. Previously a lot of them routed through KEF on Wow.


Yes, this is about giving Israel more connectivity eastbound. If you look at the El Al routemap, almost all their flights were to Europe and the Asia-bound flights had to detour thousands of miles. I think one flight had to go down the middle of the Red Sea and around Yemen to get to India. Now it will be possible to fly more or less direct to almost anywhere in Asia. Heading west there are already plenty of options.
 
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Vio
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:34 pm

I think not using a "bigger airplane" also may send a message that the Israelis "Don't consider themselves the best in town". Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but it shows modesty. The (economics) explanation probably makes more sense :D
Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
 
airbazar
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:08 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
When is the first regular commercial flight (not just a one-off charter), which will accept any ordinary person with a passport valid for entry into Israel/UAE and pays for a ticket, planned to be ?

They haven’t negotiated a bilateral yet.

The bilateral is the least of the problems. Until Saudi Arabia grants overflight rights for regular commercial flight, there won't be any.
Today's flight is essentially a diplomatic mission and it's easy to get an exception of those.
 
Boof02671
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:23 pm

airbazar wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
When is the first regular commercial flight (not just a one-off charter), which will accept any ordinary person with a passport valid for entry into Israel/UAE and pays for a ticket, planned to be ?

They haven’t negotiated a bilateral yet.

The bilateral is the least of the problems. Until Saudi Arabia grants overflight rights for regular commercial flight, there won't be any.
Today's flight is essentially a diplomatic mission and it's easy to get an exception of those.

KSA has granted overfly rights to Air India already.
 
AshFlops
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:52 pm

Vio wrote:
I think not using a "bigger airplane" also may send a message that the Israelis "Don't consider themselves the best in town". Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but it shows modesty. The (economics) explanation probably makes more sense :D


"The Best in Town"? Please elaborate. What does that have to do with aircraft size?
 
SCQ83
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:28 pm

I don't understand all this debate about El Al using a 737/787.

El Al landed in the UAE and that is the historical event. I wouldn't overthink the plane.

El Al is a "marginal" carrier to Israel (it is even (or was during COVID peak) on the verge of extinction); in a way like Saudia or Kuwait Airways to the KSA/KW. El Al is not the global image of the country like Etihad or Emirates are to AUH or DXB.
 
entdoc
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Tue Sep 01, 2020 6:04 pm

Would be interesting to hear the ATC communication on this flight....


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aschachter
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:32 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Try not to get too excited. Air links between Tel Aviv and Baghdad are unlikely to happen any time soon


I agree with you here and also, Israel would need to have talks and agreements with the Iraqi Government, for flights to Baghdad, whereas these talks are with the UAE Government, so if these talks were successful and there were agreements it would be more like flights to Dubai or Abu Dhabi or other UAE Airports......
 
xwb777
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:53 am

aschachter wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
Try not to get too excited. Air links between Tel Aviv and Baghdad are unlikely to happen any time soon


I agree with you here and also, Israel would need to have talks and agreements with the Iraqi Government, for flights to Baghdad, whereas these talks are with the UAE Government, so if these talks were successful and there were agreements it would be more like flights to Dubai or Abu Dhabi or other UAE Airports......


Just AUH and DXB. Don't count the other UAE airports. They don't attract many international airlines.
 
SueD
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:21 am

aschachter wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
Try not to get too excited. Air links between Tel Aviv and Baghdad are unlikely to happen any time soon


I agree with you here and also, Israel would need to have talks and agreements with the Iraqi Government, for flights to Baghdad, whereas these talks are with the UAE Government, so if these talks were successful and there were agreements it would be more like flights to Dubai or Abu Dhabi or other UAE Airports......


Absolutely no chance of Iraq, Iran, Syria or Lebanon and little chance of Kuwait or Qatar - These are the common enemy aligned with Tehran and it’s allies holding sway here !

Iraqi government influence has effectively been lost to Iran by happenstance
 
andrej
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:04 am

In light of this historic flight more good news are coming. UAE obtained an approval from the Saudi Arabia to use its airspace on all routes (i.e. flights to Israel are coming). Etihad started to sell tickets to Israeli passengers (expecting to launch new route soon), and Netanyahu stated that Saudi Arabia allowed El Al flights over its territories.

For one, I am very excited and once this COVID passes, I would love to fly from DXB to TLV for a visit.
 
xwb777
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:09 pm

Here is the article explaining the above post:


https://gulfnews.com/business/aviation/ ... 8993763477


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huaiwei
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:15 pm

I can't believe that the opportunity to fly DXB-TLV has come earlier than being able to visit Mecca as a non-Muslim.

So glad that economics has triumphed over ideology and is opening the region up to the world to explore in person!

Image

Absolutely unimaginable!
It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)
 
CALMSP
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:17 pm

that is a great picture
 
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Seabear
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:25 pm

"Saudi Arabia announced Wednesday that it would allow any flights going to and from the United Arab Emirates to fly over its territory, a move that would give Israel access to some of the kingdom’s airspace for the first time."

Saudi Arabia Opens Airspace to Israeli Flights for First Time https://nyti.ms/31OYIyY
 
LTCM
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:47 pm

Seabear wrote:
"Saudi Arabia announced Wednesday that it would allow any flights going to and from the United Arab Emirates to fly over its territory, a move that would give Israel access to some of the kingdom’s airspace for the first time."

Saudi Arabia Opens Airspace to Israeli Flights for First Time https://nyti.ms/31OYIyY


That's great to hear. Couldn't be more happy for everyone involved.

The middle East is about to exploded with new diplomatic relations - a kind of bomb they haven't experienced in a long long time.
 
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Channex757
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Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:09 pm

I expect it to go widebody before long. This route is screaming for freight capacity, and AUH is a global hub. Pharma, electronics and fresh produce.
 
YYZSpotter1991
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Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:32 pm

Re: First TLV - UAE flight

Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:22 pm

Once COVID is under control, there should be an explosion in demand between the UAE and Israel. It will also mean Turkish Airlines would no longer be the preferred transit carrier to passengers from Tel Aviv to other destinations.
Toronto-based flyer since 1997

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