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lesfalls
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:57 pm

CALMSP wrote:
COSPN wrote:
Very simple every United position should be open for any United employe to apply.. No “special “ deals .. If a American employee is the best for the job then then company should do the paperwork to get him or her a visa and work in India. or Germany or anyplace else.

United is an American company so should not offshore work and then not allow people to follow their jobs to India or the Philippines if people are willing to relocate. United can afford to support getting a work permit for someone to work in India or Hong King for a few years.. It would benefit both countries involved.


it was disappointing during the beginning phases leading up to the merger of UA bringing every employee back to the US that was positioned overseas (maybe not 100% but almost). I'd like to see them adopt what LH does, LH seems to have German employees running every station around the world.


What examples do you have of that? I thought that era was over. The only thing I heard from their MAD base (which is being outsourced now) was that they used to hire only german speakers for check-in positions which shows how important image was for an airline even abroad back in the day. How times have changed.
 
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lesfalls
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:58 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
Like jayunited said, those positions have been in India for years now and still have a bit in the US. Besides India, UA also has similar jobs in Amsterdam and Frankfurt (based in what I've noticed since looking at jobs there since at least 2015). It does make me wonder if they had network planners take the VSP or told they were moving to a new position if those jobs are being backfilled in India, however. Either way, my wet dream is for UA to move headquarters to Houston so I can aim for a CSC job there since I grew up there (CO brat), I have family there, lower cost of living, etc...


More than half of the UA employees at AMS were based in Chicago before and then moved to Amsterdam. No idea why they did that as it means they have to pay the expat fee for the same position.
 
COSPN
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:34 pm

How many employees does WN and DL have in India ?
 
Ziyulu
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:48 pm

It was funny one time when I called AA's customer service in China. The AA agent could not speak English. I also had to call CA, and the CA agent spoke perfect English.
 
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ua900
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:46 pm

AEROFAN wrote:
The accent most certainly do a lot. If you are not able to understand the speaker because of their accent, then it is impossible to get the help you require.
When I worked for an airline, back in the day, I had to make business trips to India every quarter for business reviews due to the airline outsourcing. I simply could not understand what most of the Indian workers I interacted with were saying and I am multi-lingual speaking and writing four languages fluently.

I look forward to seeing how this will play out. I suspect nothing will be done about it as outsourcing of American jobs has been going on for at least four decades now.


Well, yeah, if it gets to the point where you can't understand the other person then it's an issue. From the looks of it, this particular UA move isn't a 1:1 replacement to make up for attrition in India but genuine offshoring while getting subsidies at the same time. At least that's what the one mile at a time article suggested since the job postings were removed from united.com and said to have been in error somehow but are still on LinkedIn. Outsourcing itself is fine, but not if you're getting paid to maintain US jobs and are trying very hard to get that program extended. Doesn't help their case one bit. Same if they hire folks who can't be understood, defeats the purpose.

jayunited wrote:
Don't bother wasting your time, I posted the exact same thing days ago when this thread was opened. This thread demonstrate that people actually believe all corporate positions for United Airlines are either in Chicago or Houston, when the truth is like I stated earlier UA has those positions and many more in every region we fly to except Africa.

This thread is nothing more than a UA bashing thread fed by people who really don't understand what goes on behind the scenes outside of airport settings. But you know what it has been a few months since we've had a good UA bashing thread so I guess it's time. :lol:


So the question I have is this. If you were right (and I believed you as you could see from my initial response) then why did UA's response not mention the 1:1 replacement domestically within India?

“A limited number of non-critical, new positions were recently posted in error and we are taking them down. While United instituted a hiring freeze several months ago, we have a small number of critical roles to backfill across our airline as a result of employees taking early retirement or voluntarily separating from United. All of these U.S. based, critical roles will remain in the United States.”

Makes it sound like they got caught red-handed, I can't imagine someone posting jobs in error in the wrong country. The apology makes it sound like US employees took a package and the backfill was then moved from the US to India when they say "across our airline". I think transparency would be good there so that people don't wonder what's going on.

If I were UA's PR team, I'd openly say that it's a 1:1 replacement to make up for attrition experienced *within* India, if that's truly the case.

Something like "While United instituted a hiring freeze several months ago, we have a small number of critical roles to backfill across our airline as a result of employees in India taking early retirement or voluntarily separating from United" to make it clear that is wasn't a backfill for US employees. The next airline bailout package isn't approved yet, it's still just under consideration.
 
smartplane
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:00 pm

COSPN wrote:
Very simple every United position should be open for any United employe to apply.. No “special “ deals .. If a American employee is the best for the job then then company should do the paperwork to get him or her a visa and work in India. or Germany or anyplace else.

United is an American company so should not offshore work and then not allow people to follow their jobs to India or the Philippines if people are willing to relocate. United can afford to support getting a work permit for someone to work in India or Hong King for a few years.. It would benefit both countries involved.

So United could only employ US citizens in the USA? And employ only US citizens everywhere else in the World?

Assuming the 'rule' works in both directions, countries would require United to set-up subsidiaries 51% locally owned, with only locals employed. Stalemate.

The US has archaic, inflexible work practices. Some countries are far too liberal and flexible in the opposite direction. If the USA could ease up just a little, the appetite for sending work offshore would diminish.
 
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ua900
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:21 pm

smartplane wrote:
COSPN wrote:
Very simple every United position should be open for any United employe to apply.. No “special “ deals .. If a American employee is the best for the job then then company should do the paperwork to get him or her a visa and work in India. or Germany or anyplace else.

United is an American company so should not offshore work and then not allow people to follow their jobs to India or the Philippines if people are willing to relocate. United can afford to support getting a work permit for someone to work in India or Hong King for a few years.. It would benefit both countries involved.

So United could only employ US citizens in the USA? And employ only US citizens everywhere else in the World?

Assuming the 'rule' works in both directions, countries would require United to set-up subsidiaries 51% locally owned, with only locals employed. Stalemate.

The US has archaic, inflexible work practices. Some countries are far too liberal and flexible in the opposite direction. If the USA could ease up just a little, the appetite for sending work offshore would diminish.


No, a US company can employ anyone with a work permit, they don't have to be a citizen. Most companies that are headquartered elsewhere can also send a limited number of expats into a foreign country to work there. Those employees will always need local work visas as well, but most countries are very pragmatic there provided a certain ratio is maintained, e.g. 10 local employees for every expat position.

Requirements vary from country to country, but generally if you as a company do a certain level of investment in terms of people and capital then it's easy to get and maintain. In the US for example that would be an L-1 visa, not hard to get and not subject to strict quotas like an H1B.
 
COSPN
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Sat Aug 29, 2020 11:21 pm

United should allow US citizens (and “green card holders”) to apply for any position in any county. Full stop period If they need paperwork work permits or other red tape Taken care of United should pay for it .

End these “scam jobs” and scam H1 or L1 visas to take advantage of low paid workers
 
kalvado
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Sat Aug 29, 2020 11:49 pm

COSPN wrote:
United should allow US citizens (and “green card holders”) to apply for any position in any county. Full stop period If they need paperwork work permits or other red tape Taken care of United should pay for it .

End these “scam jobs” and scam H1 or L1 visas to take advantage of low paid workers

So why should other countries allow US citizen work for UA ion their soil with what is their equivalent of H1 visa?
 
COSPN
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Sun Aug 30, 2020 12:14 am

I’m talking about these so called management HQ jobs, not operational jobs which are needed in every country..
 
WayexTDI
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Sun Aug 30, 2020 12:22 am

ua900 wrote:
smartplane wrote:
COSPN wrote:
Very simple every United position should be open for any United employe to apply.. No “special “ deals .. If a American employee is the best for the job then then company should do the paperwork to get him or her a visa and work in India. or Germany or anyplace else.

United is an American company so should not offshore work and then not allow people to follow their jobs to India or the Philippines if people are willing to relocate. United can afford to support getting a work permit for someone to work in India or Hong King for a few years.. It would benefit both countries involved.

So United could only employ US citizens in the USA? And employ only US citizens everywhere else in the World?

Assuming the 'rule' works in both directions, countries would require United to set-up subsidiaries 51% locally owned, with only locals employed. Stalemate.

The US has archaic, inflexible work practices. Some countries are far too liberal and flexible in the opposite direction. If the USA could ease up just a little, the appetite for sending work offshore would diminish.


No, a US company can employ anyone with a work permit, they don't have to be a citizen. Most companies that are headquartered elsewhere can also send a limited number of expats into a foreign country to work there. Those employees will always need local work visas as well, but most countries are very pragmatic there provided a certain ratio is maintained, e.g. 10 local employees for every expat position.

Requirements vary from country to country, but generally if you as a company do a certain level of investment in terms of people and capital then it's easy to get and maintain. In the US for example that would be an L-1 visa, not hard to get and not subject to strict quotas like an H1B.

The bolded portion ([i]No, a US company can employ anyone with a work permit, they don't have to be a citizen[i]) is mostly correct, but not 100%: companies can have a Government Contracts that specifies the employee working on said contract must be a US citizen. That's usually for very high level Military, or Intelligence/Safety of the Country.
Not the majority of positions, but it does exist.
 
Trk1
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Sun Aug 30, 2020 12:33 am

one mile at a time=. would not send any of my $$$ trusting anything that this blog says--they need $$$ and click bate is what they do
 
jayunited
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Sun Aug 30, 2020 2:00 am

ua900 wrote:
So the question I have is this. If you were right (and I believed you as you could see from my initial response) then why did UA's response not mention the 1:1 replacement domestically within India?

“A limited number of non-critical, new positions were recently posted in error and we are taking them down. While United instituted a hiring freeze several months ago, we have a small number of critical roles to backfill across our airline as a result of employees taking early retirement or voluntarily separating from United. All of these U.S. based, critical roles will remain in the United States.”

Makes it sound like they got caught red-handed, I can't imagine someone posting jobs in error in the wrong country. The apology makes it sound like US employees took a package and the backfill was then moved from the US to India when they say "across our airline". I think transparency would be good there so that people don't wonder what's going on.

If I were UA's PR team, I'd openly say that it's a 1:1 replacement to make up for attrition experienced *within* India, if that's truly the case.

Something like "While United instituted a hiring freeze several months ago, we have a small number of critical roles to backfill across our airline as a result of employees in India taking early retirement or voluntarily separating from United" to make it clear that is wasn't a backfill for US employees. The next airline bailout package isn't approved yet, it's still just under consideration.


UA is responding to the criticism received on Twitter and other social media sites, were people painted the picture that UA was outsourcing jobs, from the US to India. Even the OP admitted the center in India is nothing new and while UA has hired more analyst and technical planners in India these positions already existed in India and the rolls were and filled by local Indians not Americans. Just because social media didn't know UA has senior sales managers, senior network planners, senior revenue strategist and senior technical operations in other countries do NOT mean UA is out sourcing corporate positions from the U.S.

United does not simply sell one way tickets and fly empty aircraft back from India. We don't just cater to Americans or serve US citizens only, Indians also fly on United Airlines.

What does the job of a senior network planner entail, a senior sales manager, or a revenue strategist? As an American I probably could do the job of network planner and sales manager here in the U.S. A network planner in India must first and foremost must have an in-dept understanding of India (the country) and how UA with only 3 flights can expand its network reach in India even though we only fly to DEL and BOM. The same is true of our sales managers because we want to sell tickets on both sides of the Atlantic and not just to Americans we have to have sales managers and in India. Revenue strategist in some ways work with network planner and sale managers and I hope I don't have to explain why revenue managers are important. (UA has sells manager, revenue managers, network planners all over the world and senior managers are responsible for entire regions) It is really that hard to believe United has senior sales managers, and senior revenue strategist in Europe, Asia, South America, South Pacific, in addition to here in the U.S. In addition to that United's corporate contracts and cargo contracts do not just include U.S. corporations only. UA has corporate contracts and cargo contracts with international companies based in other countries (like India) as well you need senior level management representing United. You can't send an American over to India and think they are going to be as effective as someone who is local, someone who was born and raised in India.

As far as technical operations, UA utilized contractors at both DEL and BOM the people in our India technical operations are the liaison between the NOC and SFOMC and our contractors at the airport. So yes we have senior level management present in India in our technical operations division.
 
448205
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:28 am

Ziyulu wrote:
It was funny one time when I called AA's customer service in China. The AA agent could not speak English. I also had to call CA, and the CA agent spoke perfect English.


That's incredibly hilarious.
 
COSPN
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:11 am

How many UA employees work in India ?
 
alasizon
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:23 am

jayunited wrote:
What does the job of a senior network planner entail, a senior sales manager, or a revenue strategist? As an American I probably could do the job of network planner and sales manager here in the U.S. A network planner in India must first and foremost must have an in-dept understanding of India (the country) and how UA with only 3 flights can expand its network reach in India even though we only fly to DEL and BOM. The same is true of our sales managers because we want to sell tickets on both sides of the Atlantic and not just to Americans we have to have sales managers and in India. Revenue strategist in some ways work with network planner and sale managers and I hope I don't have to explain why revenue managers are important. (UA has sells manager, revenue managers, network planners all over the world and senior managers are responsible for entire regions) It is really that hard to believe United has senior sales managers, and senior revenue strategist in Europe, Asia, South America, South Pacific, in addition to here in the U.S.


The network planning positions that are in India currently as well as those they were hiring for are not for local market planning, the job descriptions ober the years have been very specific that it was for US domestic planning at various hubs as well as US-Europe analysis. As I mentioned up thread, there was a job last year that was advertised for India and the specific duties in the job thread listed being the senior network planner for DEN domestic ops. There is no reason that position needs to be in India other than UA saving money that way.
 
avier
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:07 am

Isn't this normal for a mega-sized company with global presence to diversify their roles in other locations too? At places where they operate to and have a presence that is.
This in one way is to mitigate the risk of pooling all the resources in just one place and offers as a backup in case of a shutdown or outage in one location.
EK, for eg, has it's global contact centres (call centres) around the world at ;Dubai, Mumbai, Manchester, Guangzhou, Melbourne, New York and Budapest. I'm sure they could have narrowed this down to a few places, even accounting for the language requirements for this job, as a place like Dubai itself has basically every nationality present speaking varied languages.
https://www.emirates.com/media-centre/e ... alisation/

It's more like; not putting all eggs in one basket.

And regarding cost factor; don't airlines in EU register their AOC in some other country just to save on taxes and other charges? And then hire critical staff (like pilots/cabin crew) from whichever country they find more cost-effective in terms of minimum wage and union related laws?

In this case of UA, it's just a non-critical role of an analyst, that too in very limited numbers.
 
CALMSP
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:19 pm

jayunited wrote:
ua900 wrote:
So the question I have is this. If you were right (and I believed you as you could see from my initial response) then why did UA's response not mention the 1:1 replacement domestically within India?

“A limited number of non-critical, new positions were recently posted in error and we are taking them down. While United instituted a hiring freeze several months ago, we have a small number of critical roles to backfill across our airline as a result of employees taking early retirement or voluntarily separating from United. All of these U.S. based, critical roles will remain in the United States.”

Makes it sound like they got caught red-handed, I can't imagine someone posting jobs in error in the wrong country. The apology makes it sound like US employees took a package and the backfill was then moved from the US to India when they say "across our airline". I think transparency would be good there so that people don't wonder what's going on.

If I were UA's PR team, I'd openly say that it's a 1:1 replacement to make up for attrition experienced *within* India, if that's truly the case.

Something like "While United instituted a hiring freeze several months ago, we have a small number of critical roles to backfill across our airline as a result of employees in India taking early retirement or voluntarily separating from United" to make it clear that is wasn't a backfill for US employees. The next airline bailout package isn't approved yet, it's still just under consideration.


UA is responding to the criticism received on Twitter and other social media sites, were people painted the picture that UA was outsourcing jobs, from the US to India. Even the OP admitted the center in India is nothing new and while UA has hired more analyst and technical planners in India these positions already existed in India and the rolls were and filled by local Indians not Americans. Just because social media didn't know UA has senior sales managers, senior network planners, senior revenue strategist and senior technical operations in other countries do NOT mean UA is out sourcing corporate positions from the U.S.

United does not simply sell one way tickets and fly empty aircraft back from India. We don't just cater to Americans or serve US citizens only, Indians also fly on United Airlines.

What does the job of a senior network planner entail, a senior sales manager, or a revenue strategist? As an American I probably could do the job of network planner and sales manager here in the U.S. A network planner in India must first and foremost must have an in-dept understanding of India (the country) and how UA with only 3 flights can expand its network reach in India even though we only fly to DEL and BOM. The same is true of our sales managers because we want to sell tickets on both sides of the Atlantic and not just to Americans we have to have sales managers and in India. Revenue strategist in some ways work with network planner and sale managers and I hope I don't have to explain why revenue managers are important. (UA has sells manager, revenue managers, network planners all over the world and senior managers are responsible for entire regions) It is really that hard to believe United has senior sales managers, and senior revenue strategist in Europe, Asia, South America, South Pacific, in addition to here in the U.S. In addition to that United's corporate contracts and cargo contracts do not just include U.S. corporations only. UA has corporate contracts and cargo contracts with international companies based in other countries (like India) as well you need senior level management representing United. You can't send an American over to India and think they are going to be as effective as someone who is local, someone who was born and raised in India.

As far as technical operations, UA utilized contractors at both DEL and BOM the people in our India technical operations are the liaison between the NOC and SFOMC and our contractors at the airport. So yes we have senior level management present in India in our technical operations division.


as another pointed out, the positions that have been moving to India for the last 6-7 years have nothing to do with the India market and solely for the ability to accomplish a task at a lower wage cost.
 
COSPN
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:08 pm

Seems like a scam to keep Jays and many other HQ jobs pay low. Can anyone find out how many jobs are there is it 5 or 500
 
CALMSP
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:26 pm

COSPN wrote:
Seems like a scam to keep Jays and many other HQ jobs pay low. Can anyone find out how many jobs are there is it 5 or 500


its been there for 6-7 years, I'd say its close to 100 by now, maybe more, maybe less.
 
Vicenza
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:10 pm

AEROFAN wrote:
ua900 wrote:
x1234 wrote:
Is UAs rumored route SFO-MNL still active?


Maybe in 2030...

aeromoe wrote:
I just gotta ask. What is the difference between talking to someone who allegedly speaks "American English" vs. "British English" when dealing with a call center? I get the various spelling differences and pronunciations (aluminum vs aluminium, etc) but bottom line: who cares?


I had to make business trips to India every quarter for business reviews due to the airline outsourcing. I simply could not understand what most of the Indian workers I interacted with were saying and I am multi-lingual speaking and writing four languages fluently.


Whilst I can understand your willingness to show your ability, fluency in four languages is not going to help very much in India, unless one of them happens to be one of the 26 Indian languages. However the majority in business, especially in international, also speak English
 
Vicenza
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:28 pm

COSPN wrote:
Very simple every United position should be open for any United employe to apply.. No “special “ deals .. If a American employee is the best for the job then then company should do the paperwork to get him or her a visa and work in India. or Germany or anyplace else.

United is an American company so should not offshore work and then not allow people to follow their jobs to India or the Philippines if people are willing to relocate. United can afford to support getting a work permit for someone to work in India or Hong King for a few years.. It would benefit both countries involved.


Not as simple at all as you make out. Every United position should be open to anyone who wishes, and feels duly qualified, to apply both in the job role, and also the immigration criteria. It also depends on the particular country what the immigration requirements are......not all roles will be automatic work permit/visa, irrespective of who is willing to 'pay'.

You sadly seem to be portraying a very protectionist stance, whereby you are essentially saying United should only employ US citizens to automatically have the right work wherever in the world they want. Whist portraying this you conveniently ignore that the US doesn't make it automatic that anyone can work there. I'm afraid reality doesn't work that way. Yes, United is an American company, but also chooses to be a multi-national company. In this respect, they can more or less do what they wish in the US, but in a foreign country there is absolutely no reason why every United employee should be a US citizen irrespective of the job role.
 
COSPN
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:53 pm

Only for HQ management and planning jobs not operational or Union jobs, That have no impact on American workers ..Or domestic routes .. United can’t allow HQS scam jobs and “kingdoms” that Have no accountability..must be fair to all to advance their careers. How many work in India ? Can someone find out .? If it is only 5 positions than I agree with you . If it is 100 I say “scam” need to be moved back to Chicago or Houston
 
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ua900
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Mon Aug 31, 2020 2:49 am

WayexTDI wrote:
The bolded portion ([i]No, a US company can employ anyone with a work permit, they don't have to be a citizen[i]) is mostly correct, but not 100%: companies can have a Government Contracts that specifies the employee working on said contract must be a US citizen. That's usually for very high level Military, or Intelligence/Safety of the Country.
Not the majority of positions, but it does exist.


Correct, clearances as well if that's applicable. Plus background checks, drug tests, ability to obtain and maintain a badge, license, certificate, passing recurrent training, and being part of a union shop if applicable.

COSPN wrote:
How many UA employees work in India ?

COSPN wrote:
Seems like a scam to keep Jays and many other HQ jobs pay low. Can anyone find out how many jobs are there is it 5 or 500


Doubt they'll publish that, but here's an estimate. Assuming that the 4,400 hits below are representative for the about 1,200,000 results that a search without a country filter yields, and assuming that United has around 96,000 employees globally, that ratio would translate into perhaps 350 team members in India.

https://www.linkedin.com/search/results ... TED_SEARCH

jayunited wrote:
United does not simply sell one way tickets and fly empty aircraft back from India. We don't just cater to Americans or serve US citizens only, Indians also fly on United Airlines.


Understood that some local jobs will deal with all the local aspects of the business, e.g. cargo sales to Indian customers, regulatory, real estate, airport operations, etc. If you look through the LinkedIn profiles above, you'll see lots of generalists working basically in global analytics and sales ops roles. Some have worked very hard to get from analyst to manager in-house, others have either started their career at United and used their experience as a jumping board to other airlines or industries, some have moved from other companies to United. Nothing out of the ordinary in that sense, you'd see similar trends at Bank of America, Ford, and many others. United seems to have built this center of expertise over a couple of years and many local employees have worked hard every day to make Gurgaon and United thrive and grow, same as employees elsewhere across the system have done at their stations.

jayunited wrote:
What does the job of a senior network planner entail, a senior sales manager, or a revenue strategist? As an American I probably could do the job of network planner and sales manager here in the U.S. A network planner in India must first and foremost must have an in-dept understanding of India (the country) and how UA with only 3 flights can expand its network reach in India even though we only fly to DEL and BOM. The same is true of our sales managers because we want to sell tickets on both sides of the Atlantic and not just to Americans we have to have sales managers and in India. Revenue strategist in some ways work with network planner and sale managers and I hope I don't have to explain why revenue managers are important. (UA has sells manager, revenue managers, network planners all over the world and senior managers are responsible for entire regions) It is really that hard to believe United has senior sales managers, and senior revenue strategist in Europe, Asia, South America, South Pacific, in addition to here in the U.S. In addition to that United's corporate contracts and cargo contracts do not just include U.S. corporations only. UA has corporate contracts and cargo contracts with international companies based in other countries (like India) as well you need senior level management representing United. You can't send an American over to India and think they are going to be as effective as someone who is local, someone who was born and raised in India.

As far as technical operations, UA utilized contractors at both DEL and BOM the people in our India technical operations are the liaison between the NOC and SFOMC and our contractors at the airport. So yes we have senior level management present in India in our technical operations division.


So when we look at say the Senior Manager - Sales Programs or the Sr. Analyst - Network Planning roles they're currently hiring for here on LinkedIn, both seem to be fairly global in nature:

https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/search/?c ... tion=India

The Sr. Manager role first responsibility is: Responsible for hiring, career development, performance management, mentoring and coaching of all India based staff supporting US Sales.

Makes it sound like more India based staff will be supporting US Sales in lieu of US-based staff supporting US Sales which may currently be in that role, i.e. you're hiring a Sr. Manager right now whose role it will be to hire India based staff supporting US Sales. In an expanding market that new team could be in addition to a US-based support team, in a shrinking market that team could be a replacement.

Likewise, the Sr. Analyst Network Planning responsibilities start with "Analyze financial performance of United’s schedule and make recommendations to improve margins" and end with "Perform ad-hoc analyses on the profitability of United Airlines route network and fleet", which makes it sound like it's network-wide, including US domestic schedules and routes as opposed to "an in-depth understanding of India and how UA with only 3 flights can expand its network reach in India".

Now perhaps it's just to complement existing US-based roles, but terms like "long term margin potential for the network" and "Analyze fleet deployment to maximize revenue and minimize costs" will probably leave some folks here wondering whether the role itself isn't also to minimize costs by shifting a worker long term to adjust for a new operating environment more akin to what alasizon and CalmSP are saying:

alasizon wrote:
The network planning positions that are in India currently as well as those they were hiring for are not for local market planning, the job descriptions ober the years have been very specific that it was for US domestic planning at various hubs as well as US-Europe analysis. As I mentioned up thread, there was a job last year that was advertised for India and the specific duties in the job thread listed being the senior network planner for DEN domestic ops. There is no reason that position needs to be in India other than UA saving money that way.


CALMSP wrote:
as another pointed out, the positions that have been moving to India for the last 6-7 years have nothing to do with the India market and solely for the ability to accomplish a task at a lower wage cost.


None of which would be even worth mentioning had it not been for the current multi-billion taxpayer bailout funding and the current company request to extend that bailout funding beyond October 1st. If I were a regulator or key decisionmaker on that and felt very strongly that the funding should continue to be tied to a caveat like "no domestic job cuts" then I might want United to refrain from filling these openings. Maybe these postings are just United's plan B in case the additional funding doesn't go through next month, or maybe these roles will replace the current US teams anyway when a subsequent round of bailouts comes to an end. In that case, the decisionmakers might want to add longer-term provisions as a condition for more bailouts if their objective is to preserve the potential US jobs affected longer-term.
 
COSPN
Posts: 1849
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 6:33 am

Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:35 am

Thanks for your reply UA900
This just seems like a big security risk and waste of Money I don’t see how someone in India can have years of experience with AI or EK or Jet that could add Any value to the complicated environment of United.

India seems years behind in aviation for the huge size of their market the Middle East and Turkish Airlines seem to have figured out how to fly folks from India to the places they need to go. Not the Indian carriers..

Mabe an office in Turkey or the UAE would be a better suited for United
 
AEROFAN
Posts: 1880
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:17 pm

Vicenza wrote:
AEROFAN wrote:
ua900 wrote:

Maybe in 2030...



I had to make business trips to India every quarter for business reviews due to the airline outsourcing. I simply could not understand what most of the Indian workers I interacted with were saying and I am multi-lingual speaking and writing four languages fluently.


Whilst I can understand your willingness to show your ability, fluency in four languages is not going to help very much in India, unless one of them happens to be one of the 26 Indian languages. However the majority in business, especially in international, also speak English

Except that because of their accents, the English is virtually unrecognizable.
 
aeroblogger
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:05 pm

COSPN wrote:
Thanks for your reply UA900
This just seems like a big security risk and waste of Money I don’t see how someone in India can have years of experience with AI or EK or Jet that could add Any value to the complicated environment of United.

India seems years behind in aviation for the huge size of their market the Middle East and Turkish Airlines seem to have figured out how to fly folks from India to the places they need to go. Not the Indian carriers..

Mabe an office in Turkey or the UAE would be a better suited for United


The reason they're hiring for these positions in India is because that's where they can find qualified employees - it's very difficult to hire people with the data science/analytical background for some of these roles, especially when big tech companies aggressively recruiting for talent with similar profiles.. At every US carrier, you will find many, many Indian-educated H1-Bs for the same reason - by operating this office in India, UA can recruit directly from the source.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Mon Aug 31, 2020 2:48 pm

smartplane wrote:
COSPN wrote:
Very simple every United position should be open for any United employe to apply.. No “special “ deals .. If a American employee is the best for the job then then company should do the paperwork to get him or her a visa and work in India. or Germany or anyplace else.

United is an American company so should not offshore work and then not allow people to follow their jobs to India or the Philippines if people are willing to relocate. United can afford to support getting a work permit for someone to work in India or Hong King for a few years.. It would benefit both countries involved.

So United could only employ US citizens in the USA? And employ only US citizens everywhere else in the World?

Assuming the 'rule' works in both directions, countries would require United to set-up subsidiaries 51% locally owned, with only locals employed. Stalemate.

The US has archaic, inflexible work practices. Some countries are far too liberal and flexible in the opposite direction. If the USA could ease up just a little, the appetite for sending work offshore would diminish.


This was discussed at a CAPA Americas summit, and the pun intended answer was Richard Anderson is from Texas, that is as far as you can go hiring a foreigner as airline CEO.

In India, it is exactly opposite, only foreigners can land top positions at any private Indian carrier, AI is an exception because those are quasi-federal jobs.

I believe foreign nationals are not allowed as cabin crew even on private carriers unless it is a wet lease. Weird rules.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Mon Aug 31, 2020 2:48 pm

aeroblogger wrote:
COSPN wrote:
Thanks for your reply UA900
This just seems like a big security risk and waste of Money I don’t see how someone in India can have years of experience with AI or EK or Jet that could add Any value to the complicated environment of United.

India seems years behind in aviation for the huge size of their market the Middle East and Turkish Airlines seem to have figured out how to fly folks from India to the places they need to go. Not the Indian carriers..

Mabe an office in Turkey or the UAE would be a better suited for United


The reason they're hiring for these positions in India is because that's where they can find qualified employees - it's very difficult to hire people with the data science/analytical background for some of these roles, especially when big tech companies aggressively recruiting for talent with similar profiles.. At every US carrier, you will find many, many Indian-educated H1-Bs for the same reason - by operating this office in India, UA can recruit directly from the source.

That's a big load of horse manure: there are excellent data analysts in the US. However, they are more expensive than hiring Indians on H1-B visas, and much more expensive than hiring Indians in India.
It all comes down to $$$.
 
hohd
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:06 pm

So is UA the only company to outsource to other countries, such as India. NO. Almost all big corporations do that. AA has a small presence and will go in big into other countries, since they are losing the most money. When it comes to survival, especially bankruptcy and possible liquidation, companies will choose to outsource. That is the easiest way to cut costs. Apple makes its phone is China and has development centers all around the world, but enjoys a high degree of acceptability in US.
 
COSPN
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:27 pm

Well said WayexTdi

United needs to end these scam jobs we have no idea who is getting “kick backs” from these positions is it possible to file a EEO or harassment case in India . ? What legal Or Union protection do these so called employees have?

Their “boss man” may just fire them if they can’t make the numbers agree with what the bossman tells them.
Very strange situation.. needs to stop
 
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eta unknown
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:32 pm

Any USA based employee of UA is probably free to apply for any of those roles in India provided they accept the local employment conditions (read: salary). Agree to that and visa sponsorship would be forthcoming. Bet nobody has thus far agreed....
 
Vicenza
Posts: 454
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:02 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
aeroblogger wrote:
COSPN wrote:
Thanks for your reply UA900
This just seems like a big security risk and waste of Money I don’t see how someone in India can have years of experience with AI or EK or Jet that could add Any value to the complicated environment of United.

India seems years behind in aviation for the huge size of their market the Middle East and Turkish Airlines seem to have figured out how to fly folks from India to the places they need to go. Not the Indian carriers..

Mabe an office in Turkey or the UAE would be a better suited for United


The reason they're hiring for these positions in India is because that's where they can find qualified employees - it's very difficult to hire people with the data science/analytical background for some of these roles, especially when big tech companies aggressively recruiting for talent with similar profiles.. At every US carrier, you will find many, many Indian-educated H1-Bs for the same reason - by operating this office in India, UA can recruit directly from the source.

That's a big load of horse manure: there are excellent data analysts in the US. However, they are more expensive than hiring Indians on H1-B visas, and much more expensive than hiring Indians in India.
It all comes down to $$$.


Of course it does, but hasn't the standard mantra of a.net always been that airlines should do whatever it takes, no matter what, to make money for their shareholders. So surely questioning that ingrained mantra becomes somewhat hypocritical, when a 'situation' arises which suddenly doesn't suit and which can come back to bite you in the ass. Personally, the amount of these jobs is so low, I don't quite get the uproar being caused, except to use the opportunity to show a clear, but normally disguised, protectionist agenda stance. United Airlines are not involved in any classified US government work etc, so therefore any United job should be freely open to any duly qualified person. If the successful candidate is not a US citizen, then so be it, and there is no ethical reason why they should have to be . As is often said here, United are a business, not a charity
 
CALMSP
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:47 pm

eta unknown wrote:
Any USA based employee of UA is probably free to apply for any of those roles in India provided they accept the local employment conditions (read: salary). Agree to that and visa sponsorship would be forthcoming. Bet nobody has thus far agreed....


except for the bold print usually printed on international job postings "united will not provide assistance in obtaining local work permits"
 
COSPN
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:12 pm

How many jobs are there ? Pay is the pay .. but as destination unknown said there is no place for discrimination at United. If any US “resident “ green card holder or US Citizen can fairly apply for the job then that’s fair..

United will need to provide the work permits needed by India.. Best person for the job. Diversity is good... Kingdoms and special scam jobs don’t help anyone.. Lots of unemployed airline managers right now that could work in India for a few years
 
WayexTDI
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:43 am

Vicenza wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
aeroblogger wrote:

The reason they're hiring for these positions in India is because that's where they can find qualified employees - it's very difficult to hire people with the data science/analytical background for some of these roles, especially when big tech companies aggressively recruiting for talent with similar profiles.. At every US carrier, you will find many, many Indian-educated H1-Bs for the same reason - by operating this office in India, UA can recruit directly from the source.

That's a big load of horse manure: there are excellent data analysts in the US. However, they are more expensive than hiring Indians on H1-B visas, and much more expensive than hiring Indians in India.
It all comes down to $$$.


Of course it does, but hasn't the standard mantra of a.net always been that airlines should do whatever it takes, no matter what, to make money for their shareholders. So surely questioning that ingrained mantra becomes somewhat hypocritical, when a 'situation' arises which suddenly doesn't suit and which can come back to bite you in the ass. Personally, the amount of these jobs is so low, I don't quite get the uproar being caused, except to use the opportunity to show a clear, but normally disguised, protectionist agenda stance. United Airlines are not involved in any classified US government work etc, so therefore any United job should be freely open to any duly qualified person. If the successful candidate is not a US citizen, then so be it, and there is no ethical reason why they should have to be . As is often said here, United are a business, not a charity

Currently, and unless I am mistaken, the law in the US says that jobs must first be filled by US Persons (i.e., US Citizens, Permanent Residents - a.k.a. Green Card Holders, Refugees); should a non-US Person be hired, they must obtain a Work Visa, and go through vetting, which includes proving that no US Persons can do the job. You have to advertise the Position, interview respondents and hire them if they fit the bill.
So, yes, UA is not a charity; but, jobs in the US must be filled in accordance with US Federal and Local Laws.
 
Judge1310
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:33 am

Whew boy!! I don’t even know where to start with all this ignorance, misguided protectionism, and, yes I’ll call it out, perceived racism on this topic by some posters.

Some of you are so pressed about it, but what does it have to do with YOU? What makes positions in India any different from those in London or Amsterdam?
 
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ua900
Moderator
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:54 am

COSPN wrote:
Thanks for your reply UA900
This just seems like a big security risk and waste of Money I don’t see how someone in India can have years of experience with AI or EK or Jet that could add Any value to the complicated environment of United.

India seems years behind in aviation for the huge size of their market the Middle East and Turkish Airlines seem to have figured out how to fly folks from India to the places they need to go. Not the Indian carriers..

Mabe an office in Turkey or the UAE would be a better suited for United


Most welcome. When it comes to areas like business intelligence, programming, Salesforce application, and robotic process automation architecture those can be acquired and found at many companies, perhaps at Indigo, perhaps at a bank or a technology company. Doesn't have to be an airline, just a large enterprise that happens to run Salesforce.

WayexTDI wrote:
That's a big load of horse manure: there are excellent data analysts in the US. However, they are more expensive than hiring Indians on H1-B visas, and much more expensive than hiring Indians in India.
It all comes down to $$$.


Quite right, could have hired excellent people in the US, India, and elsewhere. Cost is much lower in India and other countries in the US, but of course, the cost isn't everything. Global total compensation is a highly complex area requiring deep knowledge and constant recalibration, UA (and others) tend to view as a headquarters function: https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/search/?c ... d%20States

COSPN wrote:
Well said WayexTdi

United needs to end these scam jobs we have no idea who is getting “kick backs” from these positions is it possible to file a EEO or harassment case in India . ? What legal Or Union protection do these so called employees have?

Their “boss man” may just fire them if they can’t make the numbers agree with what the bossman tells them.
Very strange situation.. needs to stop


FWIW, the India jobs I referenced above have be pulled from LinkedIn, so perhaps someone did have a bad conscience about simultaneously taking the subsidies and offshoring ;-)

COSPN wrote:
How many jobs are there ? Pay is the pay .. but as destination unknown said there is no place for discrimination at United. If any US “resident “ green card holder or US Citizen can fairly apply for the job then that’s fair..

United will need to provide the work permits needed by India.. Best person for the job. Diversity is good... Kingdoms and special scam jobs don’t help anyone.. Lots of unemployed airline managers right now that could work in India for a few years

CALMSP wrote:
except for the bold print usually printed on international job postings "united will not provide assistance in obtaining local work permits"


Exactly. There's no sponsorship, same as for a position in say Chicago. The employee needs to have these permits in place, not the company. UA is agonistic/impartial to that.

From an Indian UA job posting: Must be legally authorized to work in India for any employer without sponsorship
From a US UA job posting: Must be legally authorized to work in the United States for any employer without sponsorship

Judge1310 wrote:
Whew boy!! I don’t even know where to start with all this ignorance, misguided protectionism, and, yes I’ll call it out, perceived racism on this topic by some posters.

Some of you are so pressed about it, but what does it have to do with YOU? What makes positions in India any different from those in London or Amsterdam?


Well, you could comment on specifics. Most posts here have dealt with 1) UA receiving taxpayer subsidies while simultaneously offshoring the jobs these payments were meant to protect and 2) offshoring in general results in lower costs.

The consensus so far is that offshoring, in general, isn't unusual and generally seen as somewhat sad but fairly commonplace and has been going on for a long time.

What makes things different is that United is currently receiving billions to preserve US jobs (they could have turned simply down the money to avoid that obligation) and is also presently asking for additional billions for the time period beyond October 1st, yet they continue to do deep dives into more offshoring of US sales support, US network planning, and finetuning global compensation practices.

It wouldn't matter where they're offshoring to, what matters is that if they say yes to the billions in taxpayer money then they should honor their agreement and keep the jobs where they are. Without that factor, in a free market, offshore wherever you want to.
 
penguinflies
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:00 am

Now the title will be correct. With this reaction UA will retrench from offshoring back to outsourcing through HP or Accenture to get the talent needed during the time required.

One other item very few bring up. HQ creates the data requests during daylight hours in the USA, they then issue to the problem set to their worldwide counterparts to run the statistics so that the database solutions will be ready by next morning Central time for presentations and decisions. Previously, almost no one worked analysis jobs overnight, though the operation worked overnight.

2019, there were questions if an airline could have multiple operation centers around the world. So that one in Europe/USA could operate 2 shifts and one in Africa/Asia operate a parallel center on 2 shifts so that there would be no need for either have an overnight shift. This could reduce threats to having an multiple operation centers offline--like May/June 2020 for United-- when centers are co-located within a narrow band of geographical/geopolitical area.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:11 pm

One way to work around India work visa requirement is to hire US Citizens with Overseas Citizen of India(OCI). Lot of US corps prefer because OCI's ability to work in India without visa. Unfortunately OCI is a not dual-citizenship, and India can ban entry anytime, hard awakening during COVID-19.

I am guessing hiring dual citizens is also a preferred way to run visa free ops in other countries.
 
Judge1310
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:01 pm

ua900 wrote:
Judge1310 wrote:
Whew boy!! I don’t even know where to start with all this ignorance, misguided protectionism, and, yes I’ll call it out, perceived racism on this topic by some posters.

Some of you are so pressed about it, but what does it have to do with YOU? What makes positions in India any different from those in London or Amsterdam?


Well, you could comment on specifics. Most posts here have dealt with 1) UA receiving taxpayer subsidies while simultaneously offshoring the jobs these payments were meant to protect and 2) offshoring in general results in lower costs.

The consensus so far is that offshoring, in general, isn't unusual and generally seen as somewhat sad but fairly commonplace and has been going on for a long time.

What makes things different is that United is currently receiving billions to preserve US jobs (they could have turned simply down the money to avoid that obligation) and is also presently asking for additional billions for the time period beyond October 1st, yet they continue to do deep dives into more offshoring of US sales support, US network planning, and finetuning global compensation practices.

It wouldn't matter where they're offshoring to, what matters is that if they say yes to the billions in taxpayer money then they should honor their agreement and keep the jobs where they are. Without that factor, in a free market, offshore wherever you want to.


So we're just going to ignore the corporate AA employees in London and the corporate DL employee group in AMS, eh? What I am (and those of us who work in this business and have deep understanding of how it works in the background) pointing out is that it seems mighty suspect that there is this uproar about UA with open positions abroad and yet few even mention the other two in the Big 3 are doing the same thing.

And let's not forget one thing here: airline employees pay the same into the CARES act as well.
 
COSPN
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:19 pm

Why do the Indian employees on Indeed complain about working nights ?
Is it safe For female employees to roam around New Deli at 4am ?
 
airboss787
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:27 pm

COSPN wrote:
Is it safe For female employees to roam around New Deli at 4am ?


Firstly, they aren't going to be roaming around New Delhi (the openings were in Gurugram, but close enough). They will be provided either with company shuttles/cabs to drop them home or pick them up, which once vetted, are perfectly safe or personal vehicles which are obviously safe. The openings were for Analysts so what would the analysts be doing so late at night? They weren't directly working with the US counterparts, so not sure why they would be working at night. And lastly, even now, thousands if not a lot more than that are dropped off by company cabs with precautions taken and no incident. Not to say of course that there are none, of course, there are incidents but its not like a crime-city of rapes and murders.

So yes, with precautions, it is safe to be dropped home in company cabs at 4am in New Delhi or Gurugram.
 
Galore
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:39 am

N766UA wrote:
When all you buy are basic economy fares you can’t get angry when the airline ships the jobs overseas.

Americans want to “keep American jobs” but they won’t pay to support American wages. We vote with our wallets every day.


That tired old trope. Flying on the legacies in the USA is not cheap. Even our LCCs are rather expensive. Try Europe with your argument. There you can really actually book super low fares. But here in the USA, where the structure grew to quasi Oligopolies like AA at DFW or DL at ATL? Even WN at DAL (AA’s Oligopoly Partner (oh, “competitor”) in the metroplex) is comparatively expensive. The absolutely cheapest fare from DAL to SAT two weeks out is $108 RT (just checked). For fun, same dates VIE to BCN on FR is $28 RT. Twenty Eight US Dollars for Vienna to Barcelona.

So if Ryanair makes money with $28 RT fares what’s the deal with our “low” cost carriers that charge freaking $108 for a Dallas San Antonio RT?
Oh, DFW to CUN on Spirit, our ULTRA low cost carrier (lol) sets you back a cool $412 RT at these dates. In Ryanair Style No Frills Sardine Box Flights.

Please, that fairytale that US airlines somehow offer cheap fares and that these alleged basic economy fares and bargain hunting are the root of the problem in the US needs to be laid to rest.
 
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stl07
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:02 am

Boohoo, welcome to the free market, it's been around for decades now
 
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stl07
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:07 am

COSPN wrote:
Why do the Indian employees on Indeed complain about working nights ?

Wouldn't you? Indians are humans too
 
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malaysia
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:23 am

COSPN wrote:
I’m talking about these so called management HQ jobs, not operational jobs which are needed in every country..


While in Australia, I saw a job advertisement for United for some management job in California and was for an E-3 Visa, the way it was written sounded so dedicated that they needed or wanted specifically to set up an E-3 Visa and hire an Australian over an American for this corporate job in the US.
 
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ua900
Moderator
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:43 am

Judge1310 wrote:
So we're just going to ignore the corporate AA employees in London and the corporate DL employee group in AMS, eh? What I am (and those of us who work in this business and have deep understanding of how it works in the background) pointing out is that it seems mighty suspect that there is this uproar about UA with open positions abroad and yet few even mention the other two in the Big 3 are doing the same thing.


A quick search on their respective career sites and LinkedIn didn't turn up any recent/current openings, but I'm open to your thoughts on this. Has AA posted anything in London or DL anything in AMS (or elsewhere) while at the same time taking CARES money? If so, some links would be good and yes, then it would be the same as UA.

COSPN wrote:
Why do the Indian employees on Indeed complain about working nights ?
Is it safe For female employees to roam around New Deli at 4am ?


As I said, India for my companies tended to have elevated turnover, partially because the next company would poach employees by offering slightly better conditions. I can guarantee you that our employees there received rides home (or to work) if they worked late or early.

airboss787 wrote:
Firstly, they aren't going to be roaming around New Delhi (the openings were in Gurugram, but close enough). They will be provided either with company shuttles/cabs to drop them home or pick them up, which once vetted, are perfectly safe or personal vehicles which are obviously safe.


:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:

Galore wrote:

That tired old trope. Flying on the legacies in the USA is not cheap. Even our LCCs are rather expensive. Try Europe with your argument. There you can really actually book super low fares. But here in the USA, where the structure grew to quasi Oligopolies like AA at DFW or DL at ATL? Even WN at DAL (AA’s Oligopoly Partner (oh, “competitor”) in the metroplex) is comparatively expensive. The absolutely cheapest fare from DAL to SAT two weeks out is $108 RT (just checked). For fun, same dates VIE to BCN on FR is $28 RT. Twenty Eight US Dollars for Vienna to Barcelona.

So if Ryanair makes money with $28 RT fares what’s the deal with our “low” cost carriers that charge freaking $108 for a Dallas San Antonio RT?
Oh, DFW to CUN on Spirit, our ULTRA low cost carrier (lol) sets you back a cool $412 RT at these dates. In Ryanair Style No Frills Sardine Box Flights.

Please, that fairytale that US airlines somehow offer cheap fares and that these alleged basic economy fares and bargain hunting are the root of the problem in the US needs to be laid to rest.


It's anecdotal but FWIW, a friend of mine wants to have lunch with me in CLE soon and I could take AA DFW-CLE for $75 round trip in basic economy, or $39 one way. I could also take NK for $26 one way if I wanted. I won't because I don't like basic economy but the option is there for those who want the No Frills Sardine Box. DFW-CUN can be had on AA for $164 RT in basic economy or $194 in regular economy RT. Source: https://www.google.com/flights?hl=en#fl ... .USD.16364
 
CALMSP
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Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:33 am

Judge1310 wrote:
ua900 wrote:
Judge1310 wrote:
Whew boy!! I don’t even know where to start with all this ignorance, misguided protectionism, and, yes I’ll call it out, perceived racism on this topic by some posters.

Some of you are so pressed about it, but what does it have to do with YOU? What makes positions in India any different from those in London or Amsterdam?


Well, you could comment on specifics. Most posts here have dealt with 1) UA receiving taxpayer subsidies while simultaneously offshoring the jobs these payments were meant to protect and 2) offshoring in general results in lower costs.

The consensus so far is that offshoring, in general, isn't unusual and generally seen as somewhat sad but fairly commonplace and has been going on for a long time.

What makes things different is that United is currently receiving billions to preserve US jobs (they could have turned simply down the money to avoid that obligation) and is also presently asking for additional billions for the time period beyond October 1st, yet they continue to do deep dives into more offshoring of US sales support, US network planning, and finetuning global compensation practices.

It wouldn't matter where they're offshoring to, what matters is that if they say yes to the billions in taxpayer money then they should honor their agreement and keep the jobs where they are. Without that factor, in a free market, offshore wherever you want to.


So we're just going to ignore the corporate AA employees in London and the corporate DL employee group in AMS, eh? What I am (and those of us who work in this business and have deep understanding of how it works in the background) pointing out is that it seems mighty suspect that there is this uproar about UA with open positions abroad and yet few even mention the other two in the Big 3 are doing the same thing.

And let's not forget one thing here: airline employees pay the same into the CARES act as well.


I'd feel confident that places like LHR/AMS/FRA/CDG offer a better pay structure than that of India. Companies, not even speaking of airlines, don't outsource to central London, they outsource to places like India.
 
COSPN
Posts: 1849
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 6:33 am

Re: UA outsouring some corporate positions to India

Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:04 am

Hi UA900

So United employees in India get free rides home ? Wow
Very interesting how about free food ?

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