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qf2220
Posts: 1974
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:55 am

tullamarine wrote:
Anyone who is working in or for either airline who thinks their role is immune from the cost slashers is delusional.


Anyone in any industry is delusional to think that they can continue on pre-covid cost structures. The pain hasn't started to be felt in quite a few other sectors yet.
 
qf002
Posts: 3681
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:14 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:33 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
AirlineRatings has some information on the new Virgin Australia crew rates under Bain. Here are some nuggets.

* Flight attendant base salary slashed from A$61,179 to A$49,929 with new starters at just A$45,526
* Shifts moving from 9.45 hrs to 12 hrs to allow from transcontinental returns eliminating high overnight accommodation costs
* A$125 overnight allowance, with most averaging 10 overnights a month, claimed to be abolished


I have a heap of respect for the hard work of cabin crew (and all front-line customer service staff, I worked for 10 years in those sorts of roles through high school and uni) but $61k starting salary plus allowances seems extremely generous for an entry level job that requires zero qualifications and minimal experience/training.

Of course, it still sucks to be lumped with any sort of pay cut for doing the same job, especially one as big as that. It just shows how much the former VA had allowed costs to get away from them if they are paying 50% over the odds for staff.
 
Obzerva
Posts: 495
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:48 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:58 am

myki wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
I do see synergies with having QF and JQ co-located, there would be some crossover roles ... worthwhile to move a whole HQ though, unsure. Kindof off the original topic but it would make sense at airports though (yes MEL and SYD am looking at you) where QF slap their code on a JQ flight but flights go from different terminals. I get this is due to space, however in a perfect world they would go from the same terminal/s.


Moving JQ to other terminals is another great example of QF doing something for themselves and not for the passenger.

By moving JQ so far away, yes QF members theoretically have access to the lounge, but will they, no, because in practicality it's a pain.
It reduces QF's costs by kicking most of the JQ pax out of the QF lounges even though the pax may be eligible to use it.
 
brucetiki
Posts: 227
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:36 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:03 am

qf002 wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
AirlineRatings has some information on the new Virgin Australia crew rates under Bain. Here are some nuggets.

* Flight attendant base salary slashed from A$61,179 to A$49,929 with new starters at just A$45,526
* Shifts moving from 9.45 hrs to 12 hrs to allow from transcontinental returns eliminating high overnight accommodation costs
* A$125 overnight allowance, with most averaging 10 overnights a month, claimed to be abolished


I have a heap of respect for the hard work of cabin crew (and all front-line customer service staff, I worked for 10 years in those sorts of roles through high school and uni) but $61k starting salary plus allowances seems extremely generous for an entry level job that requires zero qualifications and minimal experience/training.

Of course, it still sucks to be lumped with any sort of pay cut for doing the same job, especially one as big as that. It just shows how much the former VA had allowed costs to get away from them if they are paying 50% over the odds for staff.


I wouldn't exactly call cabin crew training minimal to be honest - they would have to cover everything from customer service through to evacuating an aircraft.
The early bird catches the worm, the late bird will be featured on a You Tube video
 
eamondzhang
Posts: 1841
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:21 am

Obzerva wrote:
myki wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
I do see synergies with having QF and JQ co-located, there would be some crossover roles ... worthwhile to move a whole HQ though, unsure. Kindof off the original topic but it would make sense at airports though (yes MEL and SYD am looking at you) where QF slap their code on a JQ flight but flights go from different terminals. I get this is due to space, however in a perfect world they would go from the same terminal/s.


Moving JQ to other terminals is another great example of QF doing something for themselves and not for the passenger.

By moving JQ so far away, yes QF members theoretically have access to the lounge, but will they, no, because in practicality it's a pain.
It reduces QF's costs by kicking most of the JQ pax out of the QF lounges even though the pax may be eligible to use it.

IMO it doesn't really reduce that much cost as you're trying to emphasis here - lounges are open in any case (not like they're closed during certain hours unless you're flying international), and if fresh food is not consumed, they're thrown away in any case.

Having JQ's pax in lounge especially outside of rush hours is not really costing much extra for them.

Michael
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2561
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:31 am

eamondzhang wrote:
Obzerva wrote:
myki wrote:


Moving JQ to other terminals is another great example of QF doing something for themselves and not for the passenger.

By moving JQ so far away, yes QF members theoretically have access to the lounge, but will they, no, because in practicality it's a pain.
It reduces QF's costs by kicking most of the JQ pax out of the QF lounges even though the pax may be eligible to use it.

IMO it doesn't really reduce that much cost as you're trying to emphasis here - lounges are open in any case (not like they're closed during certain hours unless you're flying international), and if fresh food is not consumed, they're thrown away in any case.

Having JQ's pax in lounge especially outside of rush hours is not really costing much extra for them.

Michael

I've always thought it kind of weird that QF allowed JQ pax into the lounges even though I admit to having used the SIN lounge a number of times particularly when flying Jetstar Asia. It would not be unexpected if QF did not want Jetstar pax in the lounges. You want to differentiate your product so lounge access would be one way you indicate QF is a different product from JQ. SQ has always been firm that Scoot pax do not qualify for lounge access.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
eamondzhang
Posts: 1841
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:41 am

tullamarine wrote:
I've always thought it kind of weird that QF allowed JQ pax into the lounges even though I admit to having used the SIN lounge a number of times particularly when flying Jetstar Asia. It would not be unexpected if QF did not want Jetstar pax in the lounges. You want to differentiate your product so lounge access would be one way you indicate QF is a different product from JQ. SQ has always been firm that Scoot pax do not qualify for lounge access.

Scoot pax can however buy into KrisGold lounge IIRC - similar to what QF/JQ arrangement was.

Although obviously we're not talking about QantasClub arrangements nor does QF has a separate lounge in SIN.

Obviously this is a before COVID thing though.

Michael
 
anstar
Posts: 3291
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:47 am

brucetiki wrote:

I wouldn't exactly call cabin crew training minimal to be honest - they would have to cover everything from customer service through to evacuating an aircraft.


Some carriers like Easyjet training is just under 3 weeks. Jetstar I believe is 5 weeks... It's not that much training.
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2561
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:47 am

eamondzhang wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
I've always thought it kind of weird that QF allowed JQ pax into the lounges even though I admit to having used the SIN lounge a number of times particularly when flying Jetstar Asia. It would not be unexpected if QF did not want Jetstar pax in the lounges. You want to differentiate your product so lounge access would be one way you indicate QF is a different product from JQ. SQ has always been firm that Scoot pax do not qualify for lounge access.

Scoot pax can however buy into KrisGold lounge IIRC - similar to what QF/JQ arrangement was.

Although obviously we're not talking about QantasClub arrangements nor does QF has a separate lounge in SIN.

Obviously this is a before COVID thing though.

Michael

No Scoot pax can't buy access into Kris Lounge; they can buy a pass into the SATS Lounge with an In-Style Pack. SATS Lounge isn't bad but it is a generic product similar to what you'd see in a Plaza Premium offering.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
eamondzhang
Posts: 1841
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:13 am

tullamarine wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
I've always thought it kind of weird that QF allowed JQ pax into the lounges even though I admit to having used the SIN lounge a number of times particularly when flying Jetstar Asia. It would not be unexpected if QF did not want Jetstar pax in the lounges. You want to differentiate your product so lounge access would be one way you indicate QF is a different product from JQ. SQ has always been firm that Scoot pax do not qualify for lounge access.

Scoot pax can however buy into KrisGold lounge IIRC - similar to what QF/JQ arrangement was.

Although obviously we're not talking about QantasClub arrangements nor does QF has a separate lounge in SIN.

Obviously this is a before COVID thing though.

Michael

No Scoot pax can't buy access into Kris Lounge; they can buy a pass into the SATS Lounge with an In-Style Pack. SATS Lounge isn't bad but it is a generic product similar to what you'd see in a Plaza Premium offering.

Thanks, I thought that was KrisGold but happy to be corrected

But in any case it's at least a lounge! lol

Michael
 
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EK413
Posts: 5558
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Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:11 pm

Qantas brand new 787-9 VH-ZNM ‘Mateship’ has been ferried from Everett to Victorville for storage.

Check out playback of flight BOE281 from Everett to Victorville on Flightradar24.
https://fr24.com/data/flights/boe281#258a66ff


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
Fuling
Posts: 286
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:41 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Sat Sep 19, 2020 8:52 am

EK413 wrote:
Qantas brand new 787-9 VH-ZNM ‘Mateship’ has been ferried from Everett to Victorville for storage.

Check out playback of flight BOE281 from Everett to Victorville on Flightradar24.
https://fr24.com/data/flights/boe281#258a66ff


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


ZNM is the 13th B789 right? Sorry if I missed it but when did ZNL get delivered? Is it in SoCal?
 
moa999
Posts: 968
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:24 am

Tracking sites don't show any flights for ZNL
 
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EK413
Posts: 5558
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:42 am

Fuling wrote:
EK413 wrote:
Qantas brand new 787-9 VH-ZNM ‘Mateship’ has been ferried from Everett to Victorville for storage.

Check out playback of flight BOE281 from Everett to Victorville on Flightradar24.
https://fr24.com/data/flights/boe281#258a66ff


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


ZNM is the 13th B789 right? Sorry if I missed it but when did ZNL get delivered? Is it in SoCal?

-ZNL is parked at Boeing Everett and I’d say eventually will join -ZNM at VCV.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
grh
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:37 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Sun Sep 20, 2020 2:15 am

-ZNN has also been rolled out and waiting its first flight
 
NZ801
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:06 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:01 am

Air New Zealand boss says no trans-Tasman flights until March

"Air New Zealand chief executive Greg Foran says quarantine-free travel between Australia and New Zealand is unlikely to resume for at least another six months, bursting hopes of a proposed "trans-Tasman bubble" opening before March next year.

The airline boss also says eliminating COVID-19 – something New Zealand was lauded for achieving in June before it was hit with a second wave of infections – was no longer a realistic goal, and that countries need to learn to live with the virus."

This is very fluid, given the PM was talking about this on Friday and the NZ election next month so who knows but it was good to hear his thinking. Good interview.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/compani ... 55x9i.html
 
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RyanairGuru
Posts: 8435
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:54 am

NZ801 wrote:
Air New Zealand boss says no trans-Tasman flights until March

"Air New Zealand chief executive Greg Foran says quarantine-free travel between Australia and New Zealand is unlikely to resume for at least another six months, bursting hopes of a proposed "trans-Tasman bubble" opening before March next year.

The airline boss also says eliminating COVID-19 – something New Zealand was lauded for achieving in June before it was hit with a second wave of infections – was no longer a realistic goal, and that countries need to learn to live with the virus."

This is very fluid, given the PM was talking about this on Friday and the NZ election next month so who knows but it was good to hear his thinking. Good interview.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/compani ... 55x9i.html


That's broadly in line with Qantas' "best case" scenario.

I don't see domestic borders fully opening before March (the WA election) and don't think there will be much political appetite to open international borders before domestic.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
IndianicWorld
Posts: 3388
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 11:32 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Sun Sep 20, 2020 11:36 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
NZ801 wrote:
Air New Zealand boss says no trans-Tasman flights until March

"Air New Zealand chief executive Greg Foran says quarantine-free travel between Australia and New Zealand is unlikely to resume for at least another six months, bursting hopes of a proposed "trans-Tasman bubble" opening before March next year.

The airline boss also says eliminating COVID-19 – something New Zealand was lauded for achieving in June before it was hit with a second wave of infections – was no longer a realistic goal, and that countries need to learn to live with the virus."

This is very fluid, given the PM was talking about this on Friday and the NZ election next month so who knows but it was good to hear his thinking. Good interview.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/compani ... 55x9i.html


That's broadly in line with Qantas' "best case" scenario.

I don't see domestic borders fully opening before March (the WA election) and don't think there will be much political appetite to open international borders before domestic.


Once all states are back to a position of low/no cases, it will get to a point that states that refuse to reopen will likely have to experience levels of funding cut from the federal govt, but we know that will only apply on whether it suits their own political persuasion too.

The airlines are at the mercy of those who decision makers that freak out at the first instance, so yes March 2021 seems like a fairly reasonable assumption to make as a best case situation.
 
JQ321
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:40 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:59 pm

IndianicWorld wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
NZ801 wrote:
Air New Zealand boss says no trans-Tasman flights until March

"Air New Zealand chief executive Greg Foran says quarantine-free travel between Australia and New Zealand is unlikely to resume for at least another six months, bursting hopes of a proposed "trans-Tasman bubble" opening before March next year.

The airline boss also says eliminating COVID-19 – something New Zealand was lauded for achieving in June before it was hit with a second wave of infections – was no longer a realistic goal, and that countries need to learn to live with the virus."

This is very fluid, given the PM was talking about this on Friday and the NZ election next month so who knows but it was good to hear his thinking. Good interview.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/compani ... 55x9i.html


That's broadly in line with Qantas' "best case" scenario.

I don't see domestic borders fully opening before March (the WA election) and don't think there will be much political appetite to open international borders before domestic.


Once all states are back to a position of low/no cases, it will get to a point that states that refuse to reopen will likely have to experience levels of funding cut from the federal govt, but we know that will only apply on whether it suits their own political persuasion too.

The airlines are at the mercy of those who decision makers that freak out at the first instance, so yes March 2021 seems like a fairly reasonable assumption to make as a best case situation.

The government can't and won't withhold funding. Stop with your weird fantasies.
 
IndianicWorld
Posts: 3388
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 11:32 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:30 pm

JQ321 wrote:
IndianicWorld wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:

That's broadly in line with Qantas' "best case" scenario.

I don't see domestic borders fully opening before March (the WA election) and don't think there will be much political appetite to open international borders before domestic.


Once all states are back to a position of low/no cases, it will get to a point that states that refuse to reopen will likely have to experience levels of funding cut from the federal govt, but we know that will only apply on whether it suits their own political persuasion too.

The airlines are at the mercy of those who decision makers that freak out at the first instance, so yes March 2021 seems like a fairly reasonable assumption to make as a best case situation.

The government can't and won't withhold funding. Stop with your weird fantasies.


Whether one likes it or not, government have few mechanisms to allocate funding. Doesn’t have to be direct withholding, but can be very tailored in its approach (ie. Infrastructure funding). Not the first time, and won’t be the last, so anyone trying to think that there won’t be a consequence to an action could be very surprised.

In terms of what the Air NZ CEO was saying, it makes sense in that we will have to learn to find ways of living with the virus, as a vaccine may not be the total solution on its own. Interesting times ahead.

Airlines are a key part in reopening the economy across this country and eventually us to the world, so can only hope things settle down soon and any future strategy can balance the health and economic response. Frankly we are only seeing the early days of the economic shock that these times have brought.
 
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CraigAnderson
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:19 am

More knock-on effects of COVID with DNATA’s local catering arm shedding a thousand jobs. Those jobs are not eligible for the JobKeeper allowance because DNATA is a foreign owned company.

Airline catering company dnata has told staff it will cut 1000 jobs after Australia's domestic and international border closures in effect stopped its business overnight.


https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal ... 55xt6.html
 
timtam
Posts: 310
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:02 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:31 pm

IndianicWorld wrote:
JQ321 wrote:
IndianicWorld wrote:

Once all states are back to a position of low/no cases, it will get to a point that states that refuse to reopen will likely have to experience levels of funding cut from the federal govt, but we know that will only apply on whether it suits their own political persuasion too.

The airlines are at the mercy of those who decision makers that freak out at the first instance, so yes March 2021 seems like a fairly reasonable assumption to make as a best case situation.

The government can't and won't withhold funding. Stop with your weird fantasies.


Whether one likes it or not, government have few mechanisms to allocate funding. Doesn’t have to be direct withholding, but can be very tailored in its approach (ie. Infrastructure funding). Not the first time, and won’t be the last, so anyone trying to think that there won’t be a consequence to an action could be very surprised.

In terms of what the Air NZ CEO was saying, it makes sense in that we will have to learn to find ways of living with the virus, as a vaccine may not be the total solution on its own. Interesting times ahead.

Airlines are a key part in reopening the economy across this country and eventually us to the world, so can only hope things settle down soon and any future strategy can balance the health and economic response. Frankly we are only seeing the early days of the economic shock that these times have brought.


Funding cuts wont happen. Would be a political and economic disaster for the Federal Government that would only serve to harden the approach of the individual states and their populations against opening up and deepen the economic downturn. The solution is negotiation, communication and patience - not a big stick. The states will open up when they think it is safe enough to do so.

Quite normal business activity is going on within many of the states. Yes some sectors are in big trouble and hit very hard but they are a percentage of the economy and not the whole economy.
 
myki
Posts: 222
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:43 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Tue Sep 22, 2020 2:16 am

QF returning to CBR-OOL after a long hiatus, and increasing CBR-BNE

https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/br ... re-demand/
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2561
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Tue Sep 22, 2020 2:19 am

myki wrote:
QF returning to CBR-OOL after a long hiatus, and increasing CBR-BNE

https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/br ... re-demand/

These are very much structured to align with current border restrictions. I wonder how long these will last once NSW-QLD border reopens properly and SYD-OOL and SYD-BNE come back up towards normal.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
anstar
Posts: 3291
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Tue Sep 22, 2020 2:29 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
More knock-on effects of COVID with DNATA’s local catering arm shedding a thousand jobs. Those jobs are not eligible for the JobKeeper allowance because DNATA is a foreign owned company.

Airline catering company dnata has told staff it will cut 1000 jobs after Australia's domestic and international border closures in effect stopped its business overnight.


https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal ... 55xt6.html


Whilst not eligible for Jobkeeper surely they could get Jobseeker?

And if they did get Jobkeeper Im sure these jobs would of gone anyway as the future industry will be smaller for years to come.
 
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RyanairGuru
Posts: 8435
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Tue Sep 22, 2020 2:45 am

tullamarine wrote:
myki wrote:
QF returning to CBR-OOL after a long hiatus, and increasing CBR-BNE

https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/br ... re-demand/

These are very much structured to align with current border restrictions. I wonder how long these will last once NSW-QLD border reopens properly and SYD-OOL and SYD-BNE come back up towards normal.


I think you are overthinking that a bit. While of course these announcements are in response to QLD opening borders to the ACT, it is *only* to the ACT. NSW residents, including Queanbeyan and the broader Canberra region, cannot fly from Canberra to circumvent hotel quarantine. This is being tightly controlled.

The increase from 4x to 14x on CBR-BNE is a logical development with the easing of border restrictions. This will slowly increase over time, as Qantas served the route roughly 35 weekly 6 months ago. There is no reason to think that the Canberra market can't support 14 weekly flights as restrictions are eased.

While CBR-OOL is a new route, it strikes me as a logical add. A lot more people will be holidaying in Australia over coming years, so it makes sense that there will be more interstate demand to popular holiday destinations as borders reopen. VA have flown CBR-OOL for over a decade, and pre-pandemic the route was 5-10 weekly, depending on season etc. In recent years QF have shown much more willingness to go up against VA (and JQ) in markets such as OOL, MCY and HTI. I wouldn't be surprised if this route stuck around long term, at least seasonally and less than daily.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
VH-BZF
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:43 am

Have heard and read elsewhere that QF are sending VH-ZNA from SYD and VH-ZNG from BNE to LAX 24/9/20 and they will be returning VH-ZNC from LAX to SYD over the weekend.

BZF
Ansett Australia - (was) One of the worlds great airlines!
 
DeltaB717
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:44 am

Facebook chatter (for what it's worth) suggests a VA B738 will position BNE-WTB for storage tomorrow at around 1100 (no rego or flight number). Further that a VA A330 will position MEL-WTB as VA9907 on Friday (no confirmed rego or time, though consensus seems to be XFD or XFJ). Both are reportedly for storage at WTB.
 
aschachter
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Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:37 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:50 am

DeltaB717 wrote:
Facebook chatter (for what it's worth) suggests a VA B738 will position BNE-WTB for storage tomorrow at around 1100 (no rego or flight number). Further that a VA A330 will position MEL-WTB as VA9907 on Friday (no confirmed rego or time, though consensus seems to be XFD or XFJ). Both are reportedly for storage at WTB.


Can I ask which Facebook group you are referring to? I like to hear this kind of chatter....
 
DeltaB717
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:55 am

aschachter wrote:
DeltaB717 wrote:
Facebook chatter (for what it's worth) suggests a VA B738 will position BNE-WTB for storage tomorrow at around 1100 (no rego or flight number). Further that a VA A330 will position MEL-WTB as VA9907 on Friday (no confirmed rego or time, though consensus seems to be XFD or XFJ). Both are reportedly for storage at WTB.


Can I ask which Facebook group you are referring to? I like to hear this kind of chatter....


Queensland Planespotters :)

I did some digging re the 737 and FR24 is showing VH-VUR as VA9908 BNE-WTB tomorrow, so that would appear to be the one.
 
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eta unknown
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:08 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
More knock-on effects of COVID with DNATA’s local catering arm shedding a thousand jobs. Those jobs are not eligible for the JobKeeper allowance because DNATA is a foreign owned company.

Airline catering company dnata has told staff it will cut 1000 jobs after Australia's domestic and international border closures in effect stopped its business overnight.


https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal ... 55xt6.html


EK has retrenched 50 Australian based staff across all departments about 2 months ago. Aside from the 2 or 3 ADL based staff, not sure who the others were.
 
Someone83
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Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:14 am

REX is close to getting A$150 million to start domestic ops, I assume beyond their Saab operations. What is actually their plans?

https://www.flightglobal.com/rex-taps-p ... 58.article

Australia’s Regional Express is in “advanced exclusive negotiations” with PAG Asia Capital for up to A$150 million ($110 million) funding to support its plans for commencing domestic operations.
 
dredgy
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:32 am

Someone83 wrote:
REX is close to getting A$150 million to start domestic ops, I assume beyond their Saab operations. What is actually their plans?


Capital city flights on 737s - between Brisbane, Melbourne, Sydney.
 
LTEN11
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:09 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:02 am

VH-BZF wrote:
Have heard and read elsewhere that QF are sending VH-ZNA from SYD and VH-ZNG from BNE to LAX 24/9/20 and they will be returning VH-ZNC from LAX to SYD over the weekend.

BZF


For what it's worth, VH-ZNA did a 20 minute test flight out of SYD yesterday 21/9/20.
 
NZ801
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:06 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:19 am

This is a great article about private pilots flying in to SYD. Great that they have been able to do this.

“The little planes that could: Sydney airport opens up to hobby pilots during pandemic.”

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... g-pandemic
 
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SCFlyer
Posts: 613
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:31 am

As 'expected' by many in the online community, the "honeymoon period" between the unions and new VA owner Bain is very much over. Up to 8 unions are involved in signing the letter.

Source: https://australianaviation.com.au/2020/ ... k-on-bain/
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2561
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:51 am

SCFlyer wrote:
As 'expected' by many in the online community, the "honeymoon period" between the unions and new VA owner Bain is very much over. Up to 8 unions are involved in signing the letter.

Source: https://australianaviation.com.au/2020/ ... k-on-bain/

I am constantly amazed by people who are surprised that Bain are looking to lower employee salaries and benefits. What were they expecting when it was announced the cost base was being reduced?...smaller muesli bars?? Bain has seen that its salary structure is higher than other airlines such as JQ, REX, Alliance etc and will use this opportunity to mark to market. Ask those looking to join REX's jet operations and ask them if it is the same as what they got at VA or QF. There are plenty of out-of-work airline staff around the world, many of them with work rights in Australia who are looking for a job. It is brutal but so is the alternative.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
eamondzhang
Posts: 1841
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:59 am

Unions are trying to make themselves prominent or otherwise they're losing out on union fees.

Honestly IMO it's either time to let them die or if we can't let them die, let the airline die and have a new airline from scratch without a union force.

Obviously those longer-term workforce will try and get them back in but if I remember correctly, that'll have to come with a majority vote by all employees or all within the same role (like FAs and pilots)?

Michael
 
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CraigAnderson
Posts: 586
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:28 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 1:56 am

Qantas doing the sensible thing to conserve cash for its core operations. I wonder how many Virgin Australia sponsorships will survive?

Qantas ends Wallabies sponsorship, cuts off cash to cricket and soccer
Qantas will end its 30-year sponsorship of the Wallabies and cease financial support for the national cricket and soccer teams as it desperately tries to save cash during the coronavirus crisis.
The airline said on Wednesday it would provide "in-kind support" to Cricket Australia and the Football Federation Australia, such as free flights and marketing, but will not pay any sponsorship fees for the next 12 months.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-unio ... 55ybh.html
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2561
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:09 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
Qantas doing the sensible thing to conserve cash for its core operations. I wonder how many Virgin Australia sponsorships will survive?

Qantas ends Wallabies sponsorship, cuts off cash to cricket and soccer
Qantas will end its 30-year sponsorship of the Wallabies and cease financial support for the national cricket and soccer teams as it desperately tries to save cash during the coronavirus crisis.
The airline said on Wednesday it would provide "in-kind support" to Cricket Australia and the Football Federation Australia, such as free flights and marketing, but will not pay any sponsorship fees for the next 12 months.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-unio ... 55ybh.html

VA has removed its naming rights from the Melbourne Fashion Festival and the Supercars Championship It remains preferred carrier for both Supercars and AFL. Like QF with Cricket Australia, these carrier arrangements are basically in-kind with no cash component.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
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bjwonline
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:10 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:33 am

With easing NSW/SA border restrictions QF will return to daily SYD-ADL from tomorrow and JQ to double daily. Praying the day they can get SYD-MEL back up and running comes soon!
 
NTLDaz
Posts: 474
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:56 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:34 am

eamondzhang wrote:
Unions are trying to make themselves prominent or otherwise they're losing out on union fees.

Honestly IMO it's either time to let them die or if we can't let them die, let the airline die and have a new airline from scratch without a union force.

Obviously those longer-term workforce will try and get them back in but if I remember correctly, that'll have to come with a majority vote by all employees or all within the same role (like FAs and pilots)?

Michael


This is Australia. You can't stop someone joining a union.
 
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RyanairGuru
Posts: 8435
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:35 am

eamondzhang wrote:
Unions are trying to make themselves prominent or otherwise they're losing out on union fees.

Honestly IMO it's either time to let them die or if we can't let them die, let the airline die and have a new airline from scratch without a union force.

Obviously those longer-term workforce will try and get them back in but if I remember correctly, that'll have to come with a majority vote by all employees or all within the same role (like FAs and pilots)?

Michael


Since Australia does not have compulsory unionism there is no requirement for a majority of employees to support a union. Indeed any employee is welcome to join a union of their own volition.

I think you are confusing the situation with the US, where a majority of votes are required to support a union, but a positive vote is then binding on all employees (and future employees) unless the majority were to vote the union out or a different union in.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
moa999
Posts: 968
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:37 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:42 am

eamondzhang wrote:
Unions are trying to make themselves prominent or otherwise they're losing out on union fees.
l


They'd be better off campaigning against the main government blocking domestic travel..
But I suspect they won't do that given which party it is.
 
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EK413
Posts: 5558
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 3:11 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:16 am

moa999 wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
Unions are trying to make themselves prominent or otherwise they're losing out on union fees.
l


They'd be better off campaigning against the main government blocking domestic travel..
But I suspect they won't do that given which party it is.

Considering the Unions campaigned along side Dnata management to secure JobKeeper for the now 1,000 employees which have been made redundant....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
redroo
Posts: 584
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:28 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:27 am

tullamarine wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
As 'expected' by many in the online community, the "honeymoon period" between the unions and new VA owner Bain is very much over. Up to 8 unions are involved in signing the letter.

Source: https://australianaviation.com.au/2020/ ... k-on-bain/

I am constantly amazed by people who are surprised that Bain are looking to lower employee salaries and benefits. What were they expecting when it was announced the cost base was being reduced?...smaller muesli bars?? Bain has seen that its salary structure is higher than other airlines such as JQ, REX, Alliance etc and will use this opportunity to mark to market. Ask those looking to join REX's jet operations and ask them if it is the same as what they got at VA or QF. There are plenty of out-of-work airline staff around the world, many of them with work rights in Australia who are looking for a job. It is brutal but so is the alternative.


Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Some saw a knight in shining armour with a big cheque book coming to the rescue.

Others saw a lumberjack wielding a big axe.

As you say, smaller muesli bars wasn’t going to cut it.
 
LTEN11
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:09 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:37 am

So many people who've never had a union go into bat for them, you have no idea how valuable they can be. Most of you will also be shocked to learn that the vast majority of unions work with the employer to get a fair deal for both sides. But of course you never hear of that work, as governments and the media would far prefer to union bash, it discourages union membership and helps big business drive people to individual contracts. That's fine if you work in a high skill job, not so great if you work on a production line, or a warehouse, or baggage handling where it's easy to find a replacement if you don't sign that contract. The joy of that new contract that gives you a 1.75% pay rise for the next 3 years if they are lucky, sounds great, till you realise that you're now expected to work a rotating shift, ie, day shift this week, night shift next week, split shifts, penalty rates are reduced, or eliminated altogether, sick leave gets reduced and leave loading is abolished. Suddenly that new contract has destroyed your family life, your health declines as you can't sleep properly, oh and you suddenly realise that your weekly pay has actually gone down 10%, though your base wage went up 1.75%. This happens everyday and will continue to happen as big business know that low to mid skill workers are individually not important, who leaves today will be replaced tomorrow, with barely a hiccup. However, if there are 100 working together on the same negotiated contract, suddenly they can negotiate in strength, they may give up a little bit and get a fair return.

So for all you obviously highly skilled and sought after employee's who see no value in unions, just think if you were one of the little guys on the factory, warehouse, shop floor, or throwing bags around on the apron, getting paid an award wage and the only way those jobs become worthwhile, is by putting in some o/t, or work the night shifts and weekends for the penalty rates, but they are the things that get taken away from you, see how you feel, especially when that new contract is put in front of you and those penalty rates are whittled away a bit more. Do you sign it because it's a job and some pay is better than the dole for 6 months, or do you not and find out that you've been replaced by a new guy on even less than what you were making ?

Sure unions can do some dumb things, but in the overall scheme of things, they do a pretty good job where they are involved.

Rant over.
 
anstar
Posts: 3291
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:53 am

LTEN11 wrote:
So many people who've never had a union go into bat for them, you have no idea how valuable they can be. Most of you will also be shocked to learn that the vast majority of unions work with the employer to get a fair deal for both sides. But of course you never hear of that work, as governments and the media would far prefer to union bash, it discourages union membership and helps big business drive people to individual contracts. That's fine if you work in a high skill job, not so great if you work on a production line, or a warehouse, or baggage handling where it's easy to find a replacement if you don't sign that contract. The joy of that new contract that gives you a 1.75% pay rise for the next 3 years if they are lucky, sounds great, till you realise that you're now expected to work a rotating shift, ie, day shift this week, night shift next week, split shifts, penalty rates are reduced, or eliminated altogether, sick leave gets reduced and leave loading is abolished. Suddenly that new contract has destroyed your family life, your health declines as you can't sleep properly, oh and you suddenly realise that your weekly pay has actually gone down 10%, though your base wage went up 1.75%. This happens everyday and will continue to happen as big business know that low to mid skill workers are individually not important, who leaves today will be replaced tomorrow, with barely a hiccup. However, if there are 100 working together on the same negotiated contract, suddenly they can negotiate in strength, they may give up a little bit and get a fair return.

So for all you obviously highly skilled and sought after employee's who see no value in unions, just think if you were one of the little guys on the factory, warehouse, shop floor, or throwing bags around on the apron, getting paid an award wage and the only way those jobs become worthwhile, is by putting in some o/t, or work the night shifts and weekends for the penalty rates, but they are the things that get taken away from you, see how you feel, especially when that new contract is put in front of you and those penalty rates are whittled away a bit more. Do you sign it because it's a job and some pay is better than the dole for 6 months, or do you not and find out that you've been replaced by a new guy on even less than what you were making ?

Sure unions can do some dumb things, but in the overall scheme of things, they do a pretty good job where they are involved.

Rant over.


Well the last union I was in only had onb oard managers as reps and when they cut the lower ranks it was like... oh there is nothing we can do its the best for the business... then when they went to wield the axe to the pursers it was we all have to stand united... they even threw in shopping vouchers for every 3 members you signed up.... I think unions have their place but some are just not doing the best for their members.
 
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a36001
Posts: 359
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:37 am

anstar wrote:
brucetiki wrote:

I wouldn't exactly call cabin crew training minimal to be honest - they would have to cover everything from customer service through to evacuating an aircraft.


Some carriers like Easyjet training is just under 3 weeks. Jetstar I believe is 5 weeks... It's not that much training.


The length of the training has nothing to do with it! Its the amount of knowledge that has to absorbed and then implemented then checked, then all the additional recurrent training (more checks and if you fail your grounded) and daily knowledge based quizz' of every piece of safety equipment and its location on board before your even allowed on the aircraft that is necessary to allow the crew to work just to keep your butts safe!

And all that training has to kick in instantly without fail in a situation nobody ever wants to be in! Flying is not like catching a train, sorry but it just isn't! :)
 
LTEN11
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:09 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:54 pm

anstar wrote:
LTEN11 wrote:
So many people who've never had a union go into bat for them, you have no idea how valuable they can be. Most of you will also be shocked to learn that the vast majority of unions work with the employer to get a fair deal for both sides. But of course you never hear of that work, as governments and the media would far prefer to union bash, it discourages union membership and helps big business drive people to individual contracts. That's fine if you work in a high skill job, not so great if you work on a production line, or a warehouse, or baggage handling where it's easy to find a replacement if you don't sign that contract. The joy of that new contract that gives you a 1.75% pay rise for the next 3 years if they are lucky, sounds great, till you realise that you're now expected to work a rotating shift, ie, day shift this week, night shift next week, split shifts, penalty rates are reduced, or eliminated altogether, sick leave gets reduced and leave loading is abolished. Suddenly that new contract has destroyed your family life, your health declines as you can't sleep properly, oh and you suddenly realise that your weekly pay has actually gone down 10%, though your base wage went up 1.75%. This happens everyday and will continue to happen as big business know that low to mid skill workers are individually not important, who leaves today will be replaced tomorrow, with barely a hiccup. However, if there are 100 working together on the same negotiated contract, suddenly they can negotiate in strength, they may give up a little bit and get a fair return.

So for all you obviously highly skilled and sought after employee's who see no value in unions, just think if you were one of the little guys on the factory, warehouse, shop floor, or throwing bags around on the apron, getting paid an award wage and the only way those jobs become worthwhile, is by putting in some o/t, or work the night shifts and weekends for the penalty rates, but they are the things that get taken away from you, see how you feel, especially when that new contract is put in front of you and those penalty rates are whittled away a bit more. Do you sign it because it's a job and some pay is better than the dole for 6 months, or do you not and find out that you've been replaced by a new guy on even less than what you were making ?

Sure unions can do some dumb things, but in the overall scheme of things, they do a pretty good job where they are involved.

Rant over.


Well the last union I was in only had onb oard managers as reps and when they cut the lower ranks it was like... oh there is nothing we can do its the best for the business... then when they went to wield the axe to the pursers it was we all have to stand united... they even threw in shopping vouchers for every 3 members you signed up.... I think unions have their place but some are just not doing the best for their members.


Union reps are suppose to be voted on by there work place colleagues, if you didn't like the job they were doing, you had very right to nominate someone else to take their place. You also have the right to go to the union and express your dissatisfaction with your job site union rep, they will come out and try and help you. I've been at a work site where the union rep wasn't doing anything, the union came out and spoke to everyone and a new rep was voted in, as well the union officer who had our site was changed. They want to help, it is their job and they do literally get paid by the union fees paid by their members, so it is in their interest to keep the members happy. But, having said that, there are always individuals who don't have the best interest of of those they are suppose to represent, happens in every aspect of life.
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