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smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:57 am

The other challenge I’ve heard Rex is having is getting slots, whilst historical slots have been suspended for this season. They haven’t for the next two yet. Whilst the brand tiger is gone the AOC still exists and VA is still holding onto TT slots!
 
NTLDaz
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:23 am

tullamarine wrote:
NTLDaz wrote:
redroo wrote:
I wish Rex well but I fear for them. Australia isn’t a big market and I worry that there will be space for them between Jetstar, qantas and virgin.

Apart from a cool name (which I love) what will they offer that the others don’t? Are they going to be cheaper or better? Or will they try the better but cheaper route that many have tried before and failed?

With virgin pulling back, I think their place is regional. Plenty of routes around the country that the big boys won’t/can’t touch because of cost. Service those, and cut a deal with the big boys on FF / codeshare or something.


REX would have some idea of the amount of people on their regional flights who are transferring to interstate flights so they won't be starting blind.

The numbers will be pretty low. Take MEL for example assuming initial routes out of MEL are SYD and BNE. ZL have regional flights into MEL from MGB, MQL, BWT, MIM and KNS. Some of these are only once daily. Transfer pax to SYD from MQL and MIM will be zero as they can use direct services and some of the flights are only once daily anyway. Let's assume half the pax from a regional flight transfer to mainline (seems a bit high but let's be optimists) That means 17 pax from each SF3 would be transferring to a mainline service but some people would be going to non-ZL destinations so maybe that 17 has now dropped to, say, 12. Assuming ZL had a bank that meant all their flights arrived within an hour ( not really true as flights like KNS are not that common so there will be some mainline flights with very little connecting traffic). That would mean there were 5 flights but only 3 of them had any pax transferring to SYD or BNE flights and each flight had 12 transferring onto ZL mainline services (6 to each). So from the inbound flight bank, each mainline service gains a total of only 18 pax...in other words 10% of available load. They need to find pax elsewhere and, without a compelling pricing proposition (ie less than Jetstar), I don't know how they do it.


Of course they'll have to find other passengers but my point is they likely have a base to start with which is better than nothing.

Flights into Sydney from Regional NSW will provide them more opportunities than flights into Melbourne will.
 
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CraigAnderson
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:20 am

smi0006 wrote:
The other challenge I’ve heard Rex is having is getting slots, whilst historical slots have been suspended for this season. They haven’t for the next two yet. Whilst the brand tiger is gone the AOC still exists and VA is still holding onto TT slots!


Rex should be able to successfully challenge this 'slot-squatting' by Virgin.
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:43 am

NTLDaz wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
NTLDaz wrote:

REX would have some idea of the amount of people on their regional flights who are transferring to interstate flights so they won't be starting blind.

The numbers will be pretty low. Take MEL for example assuming initial routes out of MEL are SYD and BNE. ZL have regional flights into MEL from MGB, MQL, BWT, MIM and KNS. Some of these are only once daily. Transfer pax to SYD from MQL and MIM will be zero as they can use direct services and some of the flights are only once daily anyway. Let's assume half the pax from a regional flight transfer to mainline (seems a bit high but let's be optimists) That means 17 pax from each SF3 would be transferring to a mainline service but some people would be going to non-ZL destinations so maybe that 17 has now dropped to, say, 12. Assuming ZL had a bank that meant all their flights arrived within an hour ( not really true as flights like KNS are not that common so there will be some mainline flights with very little connecting traffic). That would mean there were 5 flights but only 3 of them had any pax transferring to SYD or BNE flights and each flight had 12 transferring onto ZL mainline services (6 to each). So from the inbound flight bank, each mainline service gains a total of only 18 pax...in other words 10% of available load. They need to find pax elsewhere and, without a compelling pricing proposition (ie less than Jetstar), I don't know how they do it.


Of course they'll have to find other passengers but my point is they likely have a base to start with which is better than nothing.

Flights into Sydney from Regional NSW will provide them more opportunities than flights into Melbourne will.

Same issues exist for SYD. Ballina and Newcastle will provide no feed to mainline as direct services exist with JQ and VA. Lismore, Grafton and Armidale will provide nothing for BNE. Mildura, Broken Hill, Wagga, Albury and Merimbula will provide nothing for MEL. This means the only ports with feeds to both MEL and BNE are Dubbo, Parkes, Orange, Griffith and Moruya and even then some of these such as Griffith are dubious when compared with car.
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:02 am

tullamarine wrote:
NTLDaz wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
The numbers will be pretty low. Take MEL for example assuming initial routes out of MEL are SYD and BNE. ZL have regional flights into MEL from MGB, MQL, BWT, MIM and KNS. Some of these are only once daily. Transfer pax to SYD from MQL and MIM will be zero as they can use direct services and some of the flights are only once daily anyway. Let's assume half the pax from a regional flight transfer to mainline (seems a bit high but let's be optimists) That means 17 pax from each SF3 would be transferring to a mainline service but some people would be going to non-ZL destinations so maybe that 17 has now dropped to, say, 12. Assuming ZL had a bank that meant all their flights arrived within an hour ( not really true as flights like KNS are not that common so there will be some mainline flights with very little connecting traffic). That would mean there were 5 flights but only 3 of them had any pax transferring to SYD or BNE flights and each flight had 12 transferring onto ZL mainline services (6 to each). So from the inbound flight bank, each mainline service gains a total of only 18 pax...in other words 10% of available load. They need to find pax elsewhere and, without a compelling pricing proposition (ie less than Jetstar), I don't know how they do it.


Of course they'll have to find other passengers but my point is they likely have a base to start with which is better than nothing.

Flights into Sydney from Regional NSW will provide them more opportunities than flights into Melbourne will.

Same issues exist for SYD. Ballina and Newcastle will provide no feed to mainline as direct services exist with JQ and VA. Lismore, Grafton and Armidale will provide nothing for BNE. Mildura, Broken Hill, Wagga, Albury and Merimbula will provide nothing for MEL. This means the only ports with feeds to both MEL and BNE are Dubbo, Parkes, Orange, Griffith and Moruya and even then some of these such as Griffith are dubious when compared with car.


Don't forget that the likes of DBO, OAG and WGA already have direct flights to BNE and MEB with Fly Corporate.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
Kent350787
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:48 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
Don't forget that the likes of DBO, OAG and WGA already have direct flights to BNE and MEB with Fly Corporate.


Link Airways thank you :)

But otherwise I just can't work out what the Rex model will be, unless they are just looking to grab a chunk of whatever they can, especiailly with VA wounded.
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:55 am

Kent350787 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
Don't forget that the likes of DBO, OAG and WGA already have direct flights to BNE and MEB with Fly Corporate.


Link Airways thank you :)

But otherwise I just can't work out what the Rex model will be, unless they are just looking to grab a chunk of whatever they can, especiailly with VA wounded.


Noted about Link Airways!

Back when it was first announced it struck as an opportunistic ploy if VA were liquidated, but now that VA are recapitalised by an owner with deep pockets and a long history of successful corporate turnarounds it just strikes me as insanity.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:00 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
Kent350787 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
Don't forget that the likes of DBO, OAG and WGA already have direct flights to BNE and MEB with Fly Corporate.


Link Airways thank you :)

But otherwise I just can't work out what the Rex model will be, unless they are just looking to grab a chunk of whatever they can, especiailly with VA wounded.


Noted about Link Airways!

Back when it was first announced it struck as an opportunistic ploy if VA were liquidated, but now that VA are recapitalised by an owner with deep pockets and a long history of successful corporate turnarounds it just strikes me as insanity.


I'd say mixed record in regards to VA's new owners IMO. Of course their "Toys'r'Us'" failure is going to come up when referring to those guys from time to time.
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2764
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:22 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
Kent350787 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
Don't forget that the likes of DBO, OAG and WGA already have direct flights to BNE and MEB with Fly Corporate.


Link Airways thank you :)

But otherwise I just can't work out what the Rex model will be, unless they are just looking to grab a chunk of whatever they can, especiailly with VA wounded.


Noted about Link Airways!

Back when it was first announced it struck as an opportunistic ploy if VA were liquidated, but now that VA are recapitalised by an owner with deep pockets and a long history of successful corporate turnarounds it just strikes me as insanity.

I don't get it either. REx has never been a great competitor preferring monopoly or subsidised routes. They are entering a depressed market where there are already 2 (or maybe 3 if you say JQ is separate from QF) mature participants with excess capacity. They have no unique selling proposition that somehow targets a different segment of the market. OzJet was always doomed but at least it tried to be different. Maybe if they had gone the ULCC route, I'd have gotten it but from what has been described so far, REX looks no different from VA but with a much smaller route network. I guess they are more than welcome to try but I hope the government don't try to prop them up when the losses really kick in.
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BNEFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:02 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
NTLDaz wrote:

Of course they'll have to find other passengers but my point is they likely have a base to start with which is better than nothing.

Flights into Sydney from Regional NSW will provide them more opportunities than flights into Melbourne will.

Same issues exist for SYD. Ballina and Newcastle will provide no feed to mainline as direct services exist with JQ and VA. Lismore, Grafton and Armidale will provide nothing for BNE. Mildura, Broken Hill, Wagga, Albury and Merimbula will provide nothing for MEL. This means the only ports with feeds to both MEL and BNE are Dubbo, Parkes, Orange, Griffith and Moruya and even then some of these such as Griffith are dubious when compared with car.


Don't forget that the likes of DBO, OAG and WGA already have direct flights to BNE and MEB with Fly Corporate.

Link don't serve WGA anymore and DBO and OAG are multi-stop flights (DBO via TMW, OAG via TMW and DBO).
 
NTLDaz
Posts: 475
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:42 am

tullamarine wrote:
NTLDaz wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
The numbers will be pretty low. Take MEL for example assuming initial routes out of MEL are SYD and BNE. ZL have regional flights into MEL from MGB, MQL, BWT, MIM and KNS. Some of these are only once daily. Transfer pax to SYD from MQL and MIM will be zero as they can use direct services and some of the flights are only once daily anyway. Let's assume half the pax from a regional flight transfer to mainline (seems a bit high but let's be optimists) That means 17 pax from each SF3 would be transferring to a mainline service but some people would be going to non-ZL destinations so maybe that 17 has now dropped to, say, 12. Assuming ZL had a bank that meant all their flights arrived within an hour ( not really true as flights like KNS are not that common so there will be some mainline flights with very little connecting traffic). That would mean there were 5 flights but only 3 of them had any pax transferring to SYD or BNE flights and each flight had 12 transferring onto ZL mainline services (6 to each). So from the inbound flight bank, each mainline service gains a total of only 18 pax...in other words 10% of available load. They need to find pax elsewhere and, without a compelling pricing proposition (ie less than Jetstar), I don't know how they do it.


Of course they'll have to find other passengers but my point is they likely have a base to start with which is better than nothing.

Flights into Sydney from Regional NSW will provide them more opportunities than flights into Melbourne will.

Same issues exist for SYD. Ballina and Newcastle will provide no feed to mainline as direct services exist with JQ and VA. Lismore, Grafton and Armidale will provide nothing for BNE. Mildura, Broken Hill, Wagga, Albury and Merimbula will provide nothing for MEL. This means the only ports with feeds to both MEL and BNE are Dubbo, Parkes, Orange, Griffith and Moruya and even then some of these such as Griffith are dubious when compared with car.


Do I think they'll succeed ? No. But they will have at least some idea of potential transfer passengers. If they can get ( for arguments sake ) 20 per flight that's 20 less seats to fill.

Why does a port need to be useful to serve both Melbourne and Brisbane ?
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2764
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:00 am

NTLDaz wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
NTLDaz wrote:

Of course they'll have to find other passengers but my point is they likely have a base to start with which is better than nothing.

Flights into Sydney from Regional NSW will provide them more opportunities than flights into Melbourne will.

Same issues exist for SYD. Ballina and Newcastle will provide no feed to mainline as direct services exist with JQ and VA. Lismore, Grafton and Armidale will provide nothing for BNE. Mildura, Broken Hill, Wagga, Albury and Merimbula will provide nothing for MEL. This means the only ports with feeds to both MEL and BNE are Dubbo, Parkes, Orange, Griffith and Moruya and even then some of these such as Griffith are dubious when compared with car.


Do I think they'll succeed ? No. But they will have at least some idea of potential transfer passengers. If they can get ( for arguments sake ) 20 per flight that's 20 less seats to fill.

Why does a port need to be useful to serve both Melbourne and Brisbane ?

It doesn't need to be but it just makes the maths harder.

20 per flight is only just over 11% of a 738 so a long way to go to a decent load and it's hard to see why O&D pax would bother with them unless they are really cheap.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
anstar
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:50 am

Rex have started advertising for Flight Attendants in MEL/BNE/SYD. Likewise Altara have started recruiting for National Jet in MEL... is that for the 717's?
 
qf2048
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:01 am

Talking of Link Airways, They have announced on their Facebook page they are commencing 4 times per week service between CBR and Hobart.
ZL,QF,KE,BA,AS,CX,FR,U2,W6,EI,IB,JL,AY,LH,AA,AC,FQ,DJ,JQ,LA,FJ,QS,NZ,NF,SB,PG,EK,AB,VA,MH,KA,VN
 
IndianicWorld
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:04 pm

qf2048 wrote:
Talking of Link Airways, They have announced on their Facebook page they are commencing 4 times per week service between CBR and Hobart.


Now that’s unexpected.

Let’s hope it works out for them.
 
IndianicWorld
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:07 pm

anstar wrote:
Rex have started advertising for Flight Attendants in MEL/BNE/SYD. Likewise Altara have started recruiting for National Jet in MEL... is that for the 717's?


Would certainly align with the QF 717 Base announcement.

As for Rex, I really want to see this venture succeed but with the economic climate, along with QF, JQ and VA all likely to fight their turf strongly, it’s ping to be hard to see it being anything but a huge challenge.
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:24 pm

Latest pictures from ASP, 81 aircraft if counted correctly, also yesterday saw the first CX 77W's arrive for storage

Image

Image

https://twitter.com/Keg767/status/13108 ... 10976?s=20
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dredgy
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:26 pm

qf2048 wrote:
Talking of Link Airways, They have announced on their Facebook page they are commencing 4 times per week service between CBR and Hobart.


Are they still operating Brisbane to Woolongong flights? I want to pop down as soon as the borders are open and I can find tickets for October, but it seems insane that they're operating that route at the moment.
 
BNEFlyer
Posts: 287
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:32 am

VCVSpotter wrote:
Qantas 787-9 VH-ZNA and VH-ZNG are currently headed to LAX, prior to storage at VCV.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/VHZNA
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/VHZNG

They're not going to VCV for storage, they're going to LAX for maintenance. ZNC came back on Monday.
 
BNEFlyer
Posts: 287
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:38 am

dredgy wrote:
qf2048 wrote:
Talking of Link Airways, They have announced on their Facebook page they are commencing 4 times per week service between CBR and Hobart.


Are they still operating Brisbane to Woolongong flights? I want to pop down as soon as the borders are open and I can find tickets for October, but it seems insane that they're operating that route at the moment.

No they're not flying it at the moment.
 
Qantas16
Posts: 781
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:40 am

IndianicWorld wrote:
anstar wrote:
Rex have started advertising for Flight Attendants in MEL/BNE/SYD. Likewise Altara have started recruiting for National Jet in MEL... is that for the 717's?


Would certainly align with the QF 717 Base announcement.

As for Rex, I really want to see this venture succeed but with the economic climate, along with QF, JQ and VA all likely to fight their turf strongly, it’s ping to be hard to see it being anything but a huge challenge.


Speaking of the QF 717 base announcement, appears they will be using JQ for maintenance of the 717 fleet in MEL as they are advertising for LAME/AME's

https://www.seek.com.au/job/50633175?ty ... 8ab5216554
 
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VCVSpotter
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:23 am

BNEFlyer wrote:
VCVSpotter wrote:
Qantas 787-9 VH-ZNA and VH-ZNG are currently headed to LAX, prior to storage at VCV.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/VHZNA
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/VHZNG

They're not going to VCV for storage, they're going to LAX for maintenance. ZNC came back on Monday.


Someone I know who works at Qantas and is currently working with these EXACT aircraft told me they are going to VCV (they are still working some stuff out right now though, and things are subject to change right now though). Can’t release time line.
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CraigAnderson
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:06 am

Rex confirms lease of six Boeing 737s to start its triangle network, first delivery on November 1

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... 37-flights
 
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EK413
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:13 am

qf789 wrote:
Latest pictures from ASP, 81 aircraft if counted correctly, also yesterday saw the first CX 77W's arrive for storage

Image

Image

https://twitter.com/Keg767/status/13108 ... 10976?s=20


B-KPJ made a quick turnaround yesterday and departed at 0730L as CX3492 to Alice Springs for parking.

VCVSpotter wrote:
BNEFlyer wrote:
VCVSpotter wrote:
Qantas 787-9 VH-ZNA and VH-ZNG are currently headed to LAX, prior to storage at VCV.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/VHZNA
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/VHZNG

They're not going to VCV for storage, they're going to LAX for maintenance. ZNC came back on Monday.


Someone I know who works at Qantas and is currently working with these EXACT aircraft told me they are going to VCV (they are still working some stuff out right now though, and things are subject to change right now though). Can’t release time line.


Correct, they are eventually VCV bound.


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qf2048
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:37 am

Qantas16 wrote:
IndianicWorld wrote:
anstar wrote:
Rex have started advertising for Flight Attendants in MEL/BNE/SYD. Likewise Altara have started recruiting for National Jet in MEL... is that for the 717's?


Would certainly align with the QF 717 Base announcement.

As for Rex, I really want to see this venture succeed but with the economic climate, along with QF, JQ and VA all likely to fight their turf strongly, it’s ping to be hard to see it being anything but a huge challenge.


Speaking of the QF 717 base announcement, appears they will be using JQ for maintenance of the 717 fleet in MEL as they are advertising for LAME/AME's

https://www.seek.com.au/job/50633175?ty ... 8ab5216554


I was catching a QF flight at the start of August from Sydney. While in the lounge I could see a JQ A320 being moved into one of the QF hangers, for maintenance I presume. Makes sense for the Qantas group to utilise all their facilities where they can.
ZL,QF,KE,BA,AS,CX,FR,U2,W6,EI,IB,JL,AY,LH,AA,AC,FQ,DJ,JQ,LA,FJ,QS,NZ,NF,SB,PG,EK,AB,VA,MH,KA,VN
 
SYDSpotter
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:06 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
Rex confirms lease of six Boeing 737s to start its triangle network, first delivery on November 1

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... 37-flights


So based on that article, REX now has ambitions to expand beyond SYD/MEL/BNE and will include CBR/ADL/PER (ex-SYD)…

A quote from the article:

According to the presentation, fares on Rex's capital city network will be priced at "competitive rates with Jetstar and 5-10% cheaper than Qantas," while the services would occupy a “mid-tier” position below Qantas and Virgin Australia but above Jetstar.

So how do REX plan to differentiate themselves from QF/VA when their fares are only going to 5-10% cheaper than QF but will offer inferior frequency, connectivity and product. It's all well and good having arguably the lowest cost base out of all the carriers, but if you're going to struggle to fill your planes, then you won't be making any money.
319_320_321_332_333_359_388 / 734_737_738_743_744_762_763_772_773_77W_788_789
 
smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:57 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
Rex confirms lease of six Boeing 737s to start its triangle network, first delivery on November 1

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... 37-flights


Well good luck to them. I do look forward to some more variety in our domestic skies a 737 will look good in ZL livery, hopefully they adopt the hybrid US airways look as it’s a bit less eurowhite.
 
ben175
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:08 pm

I wish Rex all the best and I hope they do carve out a little niche market, like Jetblue did in the US.
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2020

Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:34 pm

Please continue discussion in Australian Av Thread- October 2020

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1452383
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