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NZ6
Posts: 1601
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:26 pm

NZ516 wrote:
Nelson wins it this year. Full story below:

Nelson Airport
New Plymouth Airport
Gisborne Airport
Tauranga Airport
Whakatane Airport
Rotorua Airport
Palmerston North
Hamilton Airport
Invercargill Airport
Hawke's Bay Airport
Whangarei District Airport
Whanganui Airport
Marlborough Airport
Hokitika Airport

Revealed: The regional airport voted New Zealand's best

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/travel/2 ... -best.html


Can't say we should be overly surprised with first place. Nice airport, new terminal and deserving of first place.

I do wonder how GIS and TRG made the top 4. The approach to runway 25 at TRG on a clear day is spectacular but I wonder what else made it 4th place?
 
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CraigAnderson
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:50 pm

No surprise here: grounding of B777s extended "until at least September 2021", which has got to make it increasingly likely that the 777-200s won't be coming back as those are being "sent to long-term storage facilities in both Roswell, New Mexico and Victorville, California."

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... 7-grounded
 
NZ516
Posts: 457
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:26 pm

NZ6 wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
Nelson wins it this year. Full story below:

Nelson Airport
New Plymouth Airport
Gisborne Airport
Tauranga Airport
Whakatane Airport
Rotorua Airport
Palmerston North
Hamilton Airport
Invercargill Airport
Hawke's Bay Airport
Whangarei District Airport
Whanganui Airport
Marlborough Airport
Hokitika Airport

Revealed: The regional airport voted New Zealand's best

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/travel/2 ... -best.html


Can't say we should be overly surprised with first place. Nice airport, new terminal and deserving of first place.

I do wonder how GIS and TRG made the top 4. The approach to runway 25 at TRG on a clear day is spectacular but I wonder what else made it 4th place?


From what I read on Tauranga Airport is "that you can arrive in on a turboprop and fly out on a Czech Jet fighter" on a joy flight. It has other recreational flights available skydiving, gliding, helicopter etc. Also there is a small Aviation Museum on site. So for those reasons I think it helped it get more votes.
 
NZ6
Posts: 1601
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:37 pm

NZ516 wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
Nelson wins it this year. Full story below:

Nelson Airport
New Plymouth Airport
Gisborne Airport
Tauranga Airport
Whakatane Airport
Rotorua Airport
Palmerston North
Hamilton Airport
Invercargill Airport
Hawke's Bay Airport
Whangarei District Airport
Whanganui Airport
Marlborough Airport
Hokitika Airport

Revealed: The regional airport voted New Zealand's best

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/travel/2 ... -best.html


Can't say we should be overly surprised with first place. Nice airport, new terminal and deserving of first place.

I do wonder how GIS and TRG made the top 4. The approach to runway 25 at TRG on a clear day is spectacular but I wonder what else made it 4th place?


From what I read on Tauranga Airport is "that you can arrive in on a turboprop and fly out on a Czech Jet fighter" on a joy flight. It has other recreational flights available skydiving, gliding, helicopter etc. Also there is a small Aviation Museum on site. So for those reasons I think it helped it get more votes.


Oh right. To be fair I didn't read it and only looked at it through the lens of a paying airline passenger.

I haven't been to TRG for maybe 16+ years, last time I was there there was only a convenience store/cafe which was neither but both. It's more than likely changed in that time too.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:03 pm

NZ6 wrote:

I haven't been to TRG for maybe 16+ years, last time I was there there was only a convenience store/cafe which was neither but both. It's more than likely changed in that time too.


Its even got an NZ Lounge now too, they expanded the terminal in the last couple of years to handle larger passenger loads with more ATR services from TRG now.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:27 pm

zkncj wrote:
NZ6 wrote:

I haven't been to TRG for maybe 16+ years, last time I was there there was only a convenience store/cafe which was neither but both. It's more than likely changed in that time too.


Its even got an NZ Lounge now too, they expanded the terminal in the last couple of years to handle larger passenger loads with more ATR services from TRG now.


True! Maybe my memory served me wrong and it's more deserving of it's placement.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:04 am

A lot of media attention over the last day around social distancing requirements on New Zealand domestic flights. Around what the impact of that is, and if it is really needed.

It has been stated that NZ is having to operate with 50,000 less seats due to requirement over the coming school holidays. So around approximately 25,000 less potential domestic holiday makers.
That is major amount of potential lost domestic tourism revenue. Along with Jetstar refusing to operate while the empty seat policy is in force.

Has the cost and impact of this requirement really gone two far? Should airlines now be allowed to full aircraft to 100% now that face coverings are required?

A320 middle seat is only around 50cm wide, 150cm short of the governments 2meters social distancing recommendations.

It seems that an empty middle seat is going to very little to prevent you from getting COVID-19.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:45 am

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/new ... d=12364308

SQ to suspend WLG and reduce staff in NZ.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:54 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12364308

SQ to suspend WLG and reduce staff in NZ.


I would say the first of many International route cuts for WLG, hopefully they can bounce back in the next couple of years.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 7513
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:56 am

zkncj wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12364308

SQ to suspend WLG and reduce staff in NZ.


I would say the first of many International route cuts for WLG, hopefully they can bounce back in the next couple of years.


Well other than FJ and NZ to NAN everything is Trans Tasman ex WLG, hard to say really what will be cut there going foward.
 
Sylus
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:39 pm

Hamilton International flights 'on the horizon' when international travel returns in the future ...
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/hamilton-new ... d=12364124

I tell you what, if there's one thing Ewan Wilson loves most it's the prospect of international services from regional airports! The man doesn't quit ! Fair play to him
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:54 am

HLZ getting International services in the next 5 years seem very slim! The only international flights I could see them getting in the near term would be passengers returning from Australia going straight into an managed isolation hotel.
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:06 am

zkncj wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12364308

SQ to suspend WLG and reduce staff in NZ.


I would say the first of many International route cuts for WLG, hopefully they can bounce back in the next couple of years.


Sad but understandable. I expect all investment for WLG will be halted for the forseeable future. As much as I'd love to see long haul from there, it just makes no sense right now. :(
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:16 am

Interesting thread about NZ DC8's into WLG viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1445759
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With: NZ,SJ,QF,JQ,EK,VA,AA,UA,DL,FL,AC,FJ,SQ,TG,PR
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:35 pm

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
zkncj wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12364308

SQ to suspend WLG and reduce staff in NZ.


I would say the first of many International route cuts for WLG, hopefully they can bounce back in the next couple of years.


Sad but understandable. I expect all investment for WLG will be halted for the forseeable future. As much as I'd love to see long haul from there, it just makes no sense right now. :(


I found it very odd yesterday that there still had there 2030 development plans displayed in the hallway from check-in.

Although overall WLG is starting to feel pretty sad, and empty. At least the adds from March 2020 have been removed from inside of the Terminal. Although outside they seem hopeful that VA will return with ads outside for VA.

The international departure lounge currently being used by NZ, does feel an adhoc.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:59 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
zkncj wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12364308

SQ to suspend WLG and reduce staff in NZ.


I would say the first of many International route cuts for WLG, hopefully they can bounce back in the next couple of years.


Well other than FJ and NZ to NAN everything is Trans Tasman ex WLG, hard to say really what will be cut there going foward.


Hopefully a new service can be added too such as Wellington to Rarotonga late this year or early next year!!
 
NZAA
Posts: 166
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:25 am

Sylus wrote:
Hamilton International flights 'on the horizon' when international travel returns in the future ...
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/hamilton-new ... d=12364124

I tell you what, if there's one thing Ewan Wilson loves most it's the prospect of international services from regional airports! The man doesn't quit ! Fair play to him


The guy is utterly deluded and has an unhealthy relationship with aviation.
 
NZ6
Posts: 1601
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:26 am

Sylus wrote:
Hamilton International flights 'on the horizon' when international travel returns in the future ...
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/hamilton-new ... d=12364124

I tell you what, if there's one thing Ewan Wilson loves most it's the prospect of international services from regional airports! The man doesn't quit ! Fair play to him


zkncj wrote:
HLZ getting International services in the next 5 years seem very slim! The only international flights I could see them getting in the near term would be passengers returning from Australia going straight into an managed isolation hotel.


I bang my head when I read these headlines. How does the saying go - the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome .

When I look at HLZ, it has extremely low international business need and almost no inbound appeal from Australia. Without going on too long; what does HLZ offer a tourist? Hobbiton, Waitomo or a gateway to Rotorua etc.

Waitomo and Hobbiton can both be day trips from Auckland (organised or self driven) and ROT didn't work as a stand alone route even with council support so you can rule all those out as a point of difference.

Therefore outbound is the remaining obvious target market to which I'll raise 3 critical points.

- The center of HLZ is only +/-100km from AKL airport. There's a nice new expressway and motorway for most of the trip.
- AKL has economy of scale at it's disposal and that provides options. More seats on bigger planes to more destinations. Thus leaving HLZ typically being more expensive with less competition over less routes and harder to compete.
- Let's call it the COVID effect. I think in these current times, questions should and are being asked on things like this and how much benefit we see from it. Given it's likely based on outbound benefits what's in it for the local economy

While on Kiwi, Air2000, Freedom etc you could find yourself a bargain and leave from your "backyard". The moment prices went up AKL become the more attractive option for the consumer. So the likes of NZ, QF etc just flooded the market with entry level airfares and used their much deeper pockets to ride it out.

Once NZ went to a simplified lower cost model for their short haul airline and with QF having JQ at their disposal along with VA/TT circling (at the time) the risk of a Ewan Wilson start up was low and Freedom become unnecessary.

I guess if the Waikato tax payer wants to support it then it may become more realistic but go back and re-read point 3 above and put the two together.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:01 am

NZ6 wrote:
I guess if the Waikato tax payer wants to support it then it may become more realistic but go back and re-read point 3 above and put the two together.


The Waikato tax payer would be far more cost effective, investing into an hourly rail service to Manukau and express bus from Manukau Station to AKL.

Would have an far great impact to the Waikato region, that maybe an 3x weekly air service.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:28 am

zkncj wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
I guess if the Waikato tax payer wants to support it then it may become more realistic but go back and re-read point 3 above and put the two together.


The Waikato tax payer would be far more cost effective, investing into an hourly rail service to Manukau and express bus from Manukau Station to AKL.

Would have an far great impact to the Waikato region, that maybe an 3x weekly air service.


Couldn't agree more.

But; to be honest. None of it's a real priority is it. Spending money to send people offshore would questionable politics for sometime.

Perhaps bringing more business into HLZ and building domestic demand would be a way of doing something.

I've often wondered if HLZ-OOL, HLZ-NAN or PMR/DUD could work on fixed package scenario during winter school holidays. Sat-Sat flights including full transfers, accommodation etc etc.
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:24 am

zkncj wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
I guess if the Waikato tax payer wants to support it then it may become more realistic but go back and re-read point 3 above and put the two together.


The Waikato tax payer would be far more cost effective, investing into an hourly rail service to Manukau and express bus from Manukau Station to AKL.

Would have an far great impact to the Waikato region, that maybe an 3x weekly air service.


I'd say some of the problem here is that air travel is viewed as much sexier. And really only Labour would even consider funding the rail development needed. National would just put down more four lane motorways that are gridlocked when you get near your destination.
 
a7ala
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:43 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
zkncj wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12364308

SQ to suspend WLG and reduce staff in NZ.


I would say the first of many International route cuts for WLG, hopefully they can bounce back in the next couple of years.


Well other than FJ and NZ to NAN everything is Trans Tasman ex WLG, hard to say really what will be cut there going foward.


Agree. WLG is definitely more likely to see international recovery back to normal levels more quickly than AKL/CHC given all service are Tasman or Pacific which should come back stronger than long haul.

At the end of the day, SQ had no option at WLG but to suspend given flights via Australia not feasible in the current climate, and runway limiting any non-stop options. Plus the only reason they havent suspended CHC was for cargo (and the govt subsidies being provided to fly it) of which WLG doesnt have enough to justify. Im sure it will come back, and actually see cases for WLG supporting more international services in the future as markets are compromised, by being used in co-terminal operations.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:20 am

Physical distancing requirements will be eased on public transport and planes
Mask use will continue to be compulsory
"I know this change will make a real difference to Air New Zealand," Ardern said.


https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/122753974/live-coronavirus-alert-levels-extended-for-another-week-jacinda-ardern-announces

Physical distancing requirements are removed from Today, as per this afternoons press conference.

Hopefully this will allow JQ to restart services.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:29 am

zkncj wrote:
Physical distancing requirements will be eased on public transport and planes
Mask use will continue to be compulsory
"I know this change will make a real difference to Air New Zealand," Ardern said.


https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/122753974/live-coronavirus-alert-levels-extended-for-another-week-jacinda-ardern-announces

Physical distancing requirements are removed from Today, as per this afternoons press conference.

Hopefully this will allow JQ to restart services.


I wonder if they'll keep this guideline should we see level 2 and 3 in future. Although regional lock downs like AKL had also make it impossible for airlines.

A big positive step forward though.
 
wantoflynow
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:26 am

will the NZ B772s ever fly again ?

Couldn't they perhaps be used in some sort of low cost type operation ? Like Jetstar is to Qantas.

Looked online & it said B772s maximum seating is 440. Wouldn't that make sense for leisure destinations like Fiji ?
 
NPL8800
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:50 am

zkncj wrote:
Physical distancing requirements will be eased on public transport and planes
Mask use will continue to be compulsory
"I know this change will make a real difference to Air New Zealand," Ardern said.


https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/122753974/live-coronavirus-alert-levels-extended-for-another-week-jacinda-ardern-announces

Physical distancing requirements are removed from Today, as per this afternoons press conference.

Hopefully this will allow JQ to restart services.


JQ returns this Thurs 17th at 60% of usual capacity, 75 flights/weekly. Imagine they'll spool up pretty quickly within the month after a cautious first 2 or so weeks
 
jimmyah
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:28 am

wantoflynow wrote:
will the NZ B772s ever fly again ?

Couldn't they perhaps be used in some sort of low cost type operation ? Like Jetstar is to Qantas.

Looked online & it said B772s maximum seating is 440. Wouldn't that make sense for leisure destinations like Fiji ?


Air NZ are already "low cost" with their seats-to-suit fares so I don't see the need.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:56 am

wantoflynow wrote:
will the NZ B772s ever fly again ?

Couldn't they perhaps be used in some sort of low cost type operation ? Like Jetstar is to Qantas.

Looked online & it said B772s maximum seating is 440. Wouldn't that make sense for leisure destinations like Fiji ?


I can't see them flying again myself, personally I have doubts the 77Ws will fly again long term, short term they may get some work.

Fiji is short haul, they are a long haul aircraft which NZ 'used to' use short haul in between long hauls, HNL/DPS would probably be about the only 2 routes that would work at 8-9hrs.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:05 am

wantoflynow wrote:
will the NZ B772s ever fly again ?

Couldn't they perhaps be used in some sort of low cost type operation ? Like Jetstar is to Qantas.

Looked online & it said B772s maximum seating is 440. Wouldn't that make sense for leisure destinations like Fiji ?


The operating cost is to high per seat, you would more likely see the 77Ws being used for this purpose.

Hence 3x 77Ws are being kept in AKL, in an semi stored state. That could be brought back into service quickly should an Pacific/Tasman bubble happen.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:17 pm

wantoflynow wrote:
will the NZ B772s ever fly again ?

Couldn't they perhaps be used in some sort of low cost type operation ? Like Jetstar is to Qantas.

Looked online & it said B772s maximum seating is 440. Wouldn't that make sense for leisure destinations like Fiji ?


Unlikely for NZ but I sure hope so.

They may get picked up in years to come and be converted into freighters I guess.

The issue they are due for replacement and that order has already been made. The industry will not likely recover before they're replaced.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:59 pm

wantoflynow wrote:
will the NZ B772s ever fly again ?

Couldn't they perhaps be used in some sort of low cost type operation ? Like Jetstar is to Qantas.

Looked online & it said B772s maximum seating is 440. Wouldn't that make sense for leisure destinations like Fiji ?


To your second point. I personally like the thinking but i'll chuck in a couple of thoughts

- NZ has for a long time had a NZ52/53 with a mid morning widebody departure in addition to the A320 services. There wasn't much of a need to sell it at LCC prices due to Fiji's popularity and freight requirements.
- NZ can probably do this going forward with a 789 as there will be space in the schedule.
- If not, NZ still have 3x 77W's in AKL should they find use for all 14 789's or need 15,16 or 17 aircraft.
- NZ52/53 operated during the day when the 789/77W/772 aircraft would have otherwise be on the ground between long-haul flights.
- Having a 772 in the fleet on the basis of a pacific double banger would be poor fleet utilization and costly.

We will see the 77W again. The question is WHEN.

Personally, I'm of the opinion now we wont see a bubble with Australia or the Pacific unless there's major delays with any vaccine.

As it stands, my prediction is, vaccine released Jan-Mar next year. Borders and travel to be relaxed, Jun-Aug.

Then a slow rebuild.
 
AMSAKL
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:13 am

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/travel/2 ... hange.html

It's news like this that makes me believe there is plenty of pent up demand and that the aviation industry will bounce back strong. I think the fear of Covid is starting to wane among the general public IMO. The world isn't ending and health authorities are getting better and better at managing positive cases with a declining death rate.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:50 am

AMSAKL wrote:
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/travel/2020/09/air-new-zealand-says-record-110-000-airfares-sold-in-one-day-due-to-covid-19-rule-change.html

It's news like this that makes me believe there is plenty of pent up demand and that the aviation industry will bounce back strong. I think the fear of Covid is starting to wane among the general public IMO. The world isn't ending and health authorities are getting better and better at managing positive cases with a declining death rate.


I really hope you're right.

I'm not saying you're wrong, mainly because I can't as no one knows what the future holds but...

Don't be tricked by the timing of this and that our domestic economy is doing incredibly well.

Regarding the timing... 2 weeks our from school holidays, plenty of people have held off booking due to the 'unknown' factor, no one has been anywhere all winter! The airline has thousands of seats it wasn't expecting to be able to sell and desperately looking good PR and any revenue it can get. While some will have done the domestic trip earlier in the year there's a lot more optimism domestically now and more willingness to spend money... it's almost a perfect storm if there could be one.

As for the economy.. it was headlined as a impending disaster but other than the hospitality and tourism sector most parts of the economy are holding up strong. Some even growing.

Do we see the same happening for international?

Australia, likely but other regions much slower.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:02 am

AMSAKL wrote:
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/travel/2020/09/air-new-zealand-says-record-110-000-airfares-sold-in-one-day-due-to-covid-19-rule-change.html

It's news like this that makes me believe there is plenty of pent up demand and that the aviation industry will bounce back strong. I think the fear of Covid is starting to wane among the general public IMO. The world isn't ending and health authorities are getting better and better at managing positive cases with a declining death rate.

You may well be right for domestic travel,but international travel is a whole different ball game. Even when there is a vaccine, I'd be very surprised if there's a rapid return to "normal". Obviously NZ is also thinking that "normal" is years away, or they wouldn't have mothballed literally half their WB fleet. Most other carriers are also predicting that "normality" will be years away. In particular, the Americas, which previously accounted for about 40% of the carrier's WB fleet, will be slow to recover IMO. There may be a lot of pent-up demand from A-netters, but foreign travel will be a whole new ball game in the post-Covid world.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
Kiwirob
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:55 pm

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
zkncj wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
I guess if the Waikato tax payer wants to support it then it may become more realistic but go back and re-read point 3 above and put the two together.


The Waikato tax payer would be far more cost effective, investing into an hourly rail service to Manukau and express bus from Manukau Station to AKL.

Would have an far great impact to the Waikato region, that maybe an 3x weekly air service.


I'd say some of the problem here is that air travel is viewed as much sexier. And really only Labour would even consider funding the rail development needed. National would just put down more four lane motorways that are gridlocked when you get near your destination.


If you read Collins transports plans National are pushing rail a lot harder than Labour, it's quite the turnaround.
 
PA515
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:06 pm

zkncj wrote:
Hence 3x 77Ws are being kept in AKL, in an semi stored state. That could be brought back into service quickly should an Pacific/Tasman bubble happen.


A few weeks ago Foran said they were keeping three 77Ws in AKL as they were due for undercarrige replacement. They would be OKM, OKN and OKO.

PA515
 
PA515
Posts: 1608
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:17 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:17 pm

As for the 77Es, they are being prepared for storage.

ZK-OKC was CHC-AKL as NZ6230 on 26 Aug.
ZK-OKA is CHC-AKL as NZ6232 on 16 Sep.
ZK-OKH is AKL-LAX as NZ6010 on 16 Sep.

And 789 ZK-NZL was AKL-SIN as NZ6014 on 14 Sep, presumably for maintenance.

PA515
 
NYKiwi
Posts: 90
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:41 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:22 pm

The 77E's helped form NZ into what it is (today), well lets say pre March 2020. I remember when the order was made, and when they first arrived, allowing NZ to open up new routes which prior was only 767 or 744 as options. They also allowed for increased frequency and in their own right served NZ well with the likes of IAH and YVR. I still remember my first flight SFO to AKL on one and was a good ride and yes great in the 9 across config at the back. But in reality these are also showing their age, well all 777 are when compared to the 787 or 350's. So will be sad if they do not fly, but glad they have helped NZ in their lifetime.
 
AMSAKL
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:58 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:48 pm

NZ6 wrote:
AMSAKL wrote:
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/travel/2020/09/air-new-zealand-says-record-110-000-airfares-sold-in-one-day-due-to-covid-19-rule-change.html

It's news like this that makes me believe there is plenty of pent up demand and that the aviation industry will bounce back strong. I think the fear of Covid is starting to wane among the general public IMO. The world isn't ending and health authorities are getting better and better at managing positive cases with a declining death rate.


I really hope you're right.

I'm not saying you're wrong, mainly because I can't as no one knows what the future holds but...

Don't be tricked by the timing of this and that our domestic economy is doing incredibly well.

Regarding the timing... 2 weeks our from school holidays, plenty of people have held off booking due to the 'unknown' factor, no one has been anywhere all winter! The airline has thousands of seats it wasn't expecting to be able to sell and desperately looking good PR and any revenue it can get. While some will have done the domestic trip earlier in the year there's a lot more optimism domestically now and more willingness to spend money... it's almost a perfect storm if there could be one.

As for the economy.. it was headlined as a impending disaster but other than the hospitality and tourism sector most parts of the economy are holding up strong. Some even growing.

Do we see the same happening for international?

Australia, likely but other regions much slower.


I agree in regards to the timing of school holidays. there was probably pressure from industry groups to ensure relative normalcy during these periods. I would like to know how domestic demand for seats over the last 6 months has averaged out? What I find promising is the willingness to travel, price of tickets aside, the flying public appear to be at ease with the idea of packing themselves in a flying tube for up to 2 hours.
I still believe we will see bubbles before a vaccine comes about, which could come about faster if we have a change of government. I expect to see a huge amount of VFR demand between Australia and New Zealand when that occurs. That could see up to 2 million people travelling each way (more than the previous annual rate i'm aware)

As you have said, the domestic economy has held up well and I expect the majority of people that would fly normally are the ones that have the financial means to travel again as soon as it's possible to do so.

Sure it is going to be some time before we will be back to pre Covid levels across the board but I would take a wager that air travel demand for NZ and NZ airports will be around two thirds on aggregate of previous levels before the middle of 2021.

Disclaimer, I am a NZ aviation and economy optimist
 
AMSAKL
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:58 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:35 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
AMSAKL wrote:
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/travel/2020/09/air-new-zealand-says-record-110-000-airfares-sold-in-one-day-due-to-covid-19-rule-change.html

It's news like this that makes me believe there is plenty of pent up demand and that the aviation industry will bounce back strong. I think the fear of Covid is starting to wane among the general public IMO. The world isn't ending and health authorities are getting better and better at managing positive cases with a declining death rate.

You may well be right for domestic travel,but international travel is a whole different ball game. Even when there is a vaccine, I'd be very surprised if there's a rapid return to "normal". Obviously NZ is also thinking that "normal" is years away, or they wouldn't have mothballed literally half their WB fleet. Most other carriers are also predicting that "normality" will be years away. In particular, the Americas, which previously accounted for about 40% of the carrier's WB fleet, will be slow to recover IMO. There may be a lot of pent-up demand from A-netters, but foreign travel will be a whole new ball game in the post-Covid world.


Agreed for long haul travel, I don't see that coming back any time soon. I do however think domestic and short haul demand to and from Australia and the islands to be strong. NZ will fly considerably fewer nautical miles than previous but not necessarily pax.
 
zkncj
Posts: 3887
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:25 pm

AMSAKL wrote:

Agreed for long haul travel, I don't see that coming back any time soon. I do however think domestic and short haul demand to and from Australia and the islands to be strong. NZ will fly considerably fewer nautical miles than previous but not necessarily pax.


Hence the 3x 77W staying in AKL, in an near ready condition should say the Tasman / Pacific re-open by April 2021 School Holidays they may find there way back into service.
 
NZ516
Posts: 457
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:04 am

AMSAKL wrote:

I agree in regards to the timing of school holidays. there was probably pressure from industry groups to ensure relative normalcy during these periods. I would like to know how domestic demand for seats over the last 6 months has averaged out? What I find promising is the willingness to travel, price of tickets aside, the flying public appear to be at ease with the idea of packing themselves in a flying tube for up to 2 hours.
I still believe we will see bubbles before a vaccine comes about, which could come about faster if we have a change of government. I expect to see a huge amount of VFR demand between Australia and New Zealand when that occurs. That could see up to 2 million people travelling each way (more than the previous annual rate i'm aware)

As you have said, the domestic economy has held up well and I expect the majority of people that would fly normally are the ones that have the financial means to travel again as soon as it's possible to do so.

Sure it is going to be some time before we will be back to pre Covid levels across the board but I would take a wager that air travel demand for NZ and NZ airports will be around two thirds on aggregate of previous levels before the middle of 2021.

Disclaimer, I am a NZ aviation and economy optimist


Actually it was around 3 million each way between NZ and Australia in the last year. So I can see it coming back quickly when the borders open and other countries remain closed and not safe to travel for a holiday.
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1672
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:19 am

zkncj wrote:
AMSAKL wrote:

Agreed for long haul travel, I don't see that coming back any time soon. I do however think domestic and short haul demand to and from Australia and the islands to be strong. NZ will fly considerably fewer nautical miles than previous but not necessarily pax.


Hence the 3x 77W staying in AKL, in an near ready condition should say the Tasman / Pacific re-open by April 2021 School Holidays they may find there way back into service.

As of now, NZ could operate its international schedule with just five or so of its WB fleet - and even then at low utilisation. It would be extraordinary to me if the Tasman/Pacific market could soak up all the remaining WB capacity that's available (14 789s in total). Yes, it's possible, but I seriously don't expect to see the 77Ws in the air again by the time the April school holidays come around.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
Posts: 1038
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:20 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:45 am

 
zkncj
Posts: 3887
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:58 am

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:


Interesting to see the PVG base has been kept.....
 
NZ6
Posts: 1601
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:29 pm

zkncj wrote:
ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:


Interesting to see the PVG base has been kept.....


Interesting or is there another name for it?

I would much rather keep Kiwi's employed but as I understand the requirement (or lack of) has come off N.A routes. It's impracticable in many ways to redeploy some of these staff into PVG for obvious reasons.
 
NZ6
Posts: 1601
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:35 pm

I see Treasury have stated border restrictions likely to remain in place until Jan 2022.

With that in mind, my initial thoughts were.

a) It brings bubbles back into play. Likely still in the second quarter of next year.
b) How much 'buffer' have they given themselves here.

What's riding on this, is it a vaccine period, vaccine distribution, vaccine uptake, virus numbers/transmission? What triggers need to be met for the border to be relaxed.

Surly we'll have vaccine in production by July. Why miss the peak summer period for our tourism businesses if we still have some then. What's stopping Nov/Dec or what needs to happen for that to go ahead?
 
NZ6
Posts: 1601
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:39 am

wstakl wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
I see Treasury have stated border restrictions likely to remain in place until Jan 2022.

With that in mind, my initial thoughts were.

a) It brings bubbles back into play. Likely still in the second quarter of next year.
b) How much 'buffer' have they given themselves here.

What's riding on this, is it a vaccine period, vaccine distribution, vaccine uptake, virus numbers/transmission? What triggers need to be met for the border to be relaxed.

Surly we'll have vaccine in production by July. Why miss the peak summer period for our tourism businesses if we still have some then. What's stopping Nov/Dec or what needs to happen for that to go ahead?


This is the Fortress New Zealand Labour government we're talking about here. Grant Robinson today said no trans tasman bubble until mid next year.


I've heard that same estimate from a travel organisation too. It seems to perhaps point towards some relaxation once a vaccine is in circulation but before we lift these COVID restrictions.... not exactly the bubble we all had in mind.

Which was both countries being COVID free whoops sorry, having "eliminated" the virus.

The the labour fortress is right, they've dug their heels in too far and committed to much now change their minds and approach. It's now status quo until it's fixed which will have a long term impact.
 
NZ801
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:06 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:02 am

Air New Zealand boss says no trans-Tasman flights until March

"Air New Zealand chief executive Greg Foran says quarantine-free travel between Australia and New Zealand is unlikely to resume for at least another six months, bursting hopes of a proposed "trans-Tasman bubble" opening before March next year.

The airline boss also says eliminating COVID-19 – something New Zealand was lauded for achieving in June before it was hit with a second wave of infections – was no longer a realistic goal, and that countries need to learn to live with the virus."

This is very fluid, given the Australian PM was talking about this on Friday and the NZ election next month so who knows but it was good to hear his thinking. Good interview.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/compani ... 55x9i.html
 
NZ6
Posts: 1601
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2020

Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:43 am

NZ801 wrote:
Air New Zealand boss says no trans-Tasman flights until March

"Air New Zealand chief executive Greg Foran says quarantine-free travel between Australia and New Zealand is unlikely to resume for at least another six months, bursting hopes of a proposed "trans-Tasman bubble" opening before March next year.

The airline boss also says eliminating COVID-19 – something New Zealand was lauded for achieving in June before it was hit with a second wave of infections – was no longer a realistic goal, and that countries need to learn to live with the virus."

This is very fluid, given the Australian PM was talking about this on Friday and the NZ election next month so who knows but it was good to hear his thinking. Good interview.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/compani ... 55x9i.html

I don’t even think that will happen. There too much of a difference in approach, we want zero community covid while parts of Australia appear to be happy to manage the numbers. Which appears to be working if you were to look at NSW

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