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CMHARJ
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DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:33 pm

I agree that the two airlines complimented themselves with the fleet and routing, but the writing was on the wall from the very get-go in regards to keeping all the hubs. There was no way they could financially and realistically keep 4 hubs right on top of each other. CVG and MEM were bound to get de-hubed within time. However, in order to get the government approval for the merger, they had to promote that all hubs were safe. The big thing I liked with the merger is that a lot of NW former 4 Hour Rule stations were brought back as mainline stations since after BK, NW canned all but 40 stations and DL absolutley loves having mainline employees working above-wing, not so much with below-wing. It was kind of the opposite story with DL. Pre bankruptcy. NW had 4 Hour rule stations that had mainline above and below wing employees working nothing but CRJs and Saabs. When the merger was approved, DL gained mainline below wing employees with stations they shared with NW.
FYI....If you could help me post the article, that would be great! Thanks!!!!

https://simpleflying.com/delta-northwest-merger/
 
Cointrin330
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Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:01 am

12 years later, the DL/NW merger, which was widely panned by the business press when it was first announced, remains a text book case in how to merge two airlines. Sure, they had a lot of advantages going into it. They both filed Chapter 11 at roughly the same time. Their CEO's had enough knowledge of the other's operations. There was less overlap and an opportunity to deconstruct two hubs (MEM, CVG) and reassign the assets to other more profitable stations. Merging airlines is an extremely complex process and there are so many issues and tasks, many of which seem mundane, that, if not handled properly, can have a ripple effect on operations and the entire process can be unforgiving. DL/NW handled it very well. Of all the airline mergers in the US that happened since 2005 when the wave of consolidation kicked off with US/AW, the DL/NW one from a process standpoint, is a standout for all the right reasons. IMHO, AA/US comes in second. Although a forced marriage in some ways, from an execution standpoint, there were few disruptions that had a major impact on operations and the technology platform merger seemed quite smooth. UA/CO was, by contrast, a complete mess that took about 8 years to get the kinks out.
 
NWADTWE16
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Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:29 am

CMHARJ wrote:
I agree that the two airlines complimented themselves with the fleet and routing, but the writing was on the wall from the very get-go in regards to keeping all the hubs. There was no way they could financially and realistically keep 4 hubs right on top of each other. CVG and MEM were bound to get de-hubed within time. However, in order to get the government approval for the merger, they had to promote that all hubs were safe.

https://simpleflying.com/delta-northwest-merger/


I do not see this as "promoting that all hubs were safe to get Govt approval", because in America we have proven time and time again, especially the past decade, that any corporation can buy a competitor even to eliminate them (ie WN/FL , AS/VX). You might be one of the few who are still under any illusion that the Govt serves to protect the consumer in any way.

As far as the merger, being former NW and very upset when it happened, it clearly has gone well in the long run. DL has been good to employees and we see how horrible it could be (AA/US).
I haven't been everywhere, but it's on my list!
 
catiii
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Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:51 am

Cointrin330 wrote:
12 years later, the DL/NW merger, which was widely panned by the business press when it was first announced, remains a text book case in how to merge two airlines. Sure, they had a lot of advantages going into it. They both filed Chapter 11 at roughly the same time. Their CEO's had enough knowledge of the other's operations. There was less overlap and an opportunity to deconstruct two hubs (MEM, CVG) and reassign the assets to other more profitable stations. Merging airlines is an extremely complex process and there are so many issues and tasks, many of which seem mundane, that, if not handled properly, can have a ripple effect on operations and the entire process can be unforgiving. DL/NW handled it very well. Of all the airline mergers in the US that happened since 2005 when the wave of consolidation kicked off with US/AW, the DL/NW one from a process standpoint, is a standout for all the right reasons. IMHO, AA/US comes in second. Although a forced marriage in some ways, from an execution standpoint, there were few disruptions that had a major impact on operations and the technology platform merger seemed quite smooth. UA/CO was, by contrast, a complete mess that took about 8 years to get the kinks out.


Widely panned by the business press? Where?
 
blacksoviet
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Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:15 am

Does Richard Anderson regret retiring the Saabs?
 
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adambrau
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Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:34 am

DL/NW merger was well executed. I remember hoping for the NW/PA merger in 1989 to go through...wonder how that would have worked out?!
JFK Friendly
 
CATIIIevery5yrs
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Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:35 am

blacksoviet wrote:
Does Richard Anderson regret retiring the Saabs?


Oh for sure. No doubt.
 
N312RC
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Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:46 am

I love it when someone on airliners who is usually named “Fly(smallstation)” gets upset because their grandfather/father/etc/whatever worked for/lived in/saw Ferris pass out at 31 flavors at/etc/whatever and is mad because the ERJ/CRJ/Metro/Brasilia/wherever flying out of their burg/city/town/whatever during regulation/the good old days/whatever is no longer there. Eye roll. Write your congressman.

A 737-200 going CVG-wherever in 2000 doesn’t make sense now. Sorry. You won’t be able to upload so many pics. The only place airline mergers other than disasters like NA/PA get panned are here, because someone’s mad that a 757 doesn’t go to their town anymore.
 
gaystudpilot
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Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:57 am

Agree that it was a well executed integration from many perspectives. I also believe DL did a tremendous job building the brand post integration.

I would, however, be curious to read the merger business case presented to the DL BOD, specifically regarding the TPAC network, market share and revenue potential. Given how DL’s TPAC network has evolved since the merger, I wonder how different it is today from the DL-NW business case presented.
 
Lootess
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Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:45 am

Remember when NW and DL pilots union worked out the merger seniority list before the official merger? Shining example of why it was a success before it got started.

https://www.twincities.com/2008/06/24/nwa-delta-pilots-reach-a-deal/
 
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Veigar
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Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:28 am

While understandable, Bastien's stance on heritage/retro liveries is a bit disappointing to me. So much opportunities for amazing heritage and retro liveries.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:41 am

catiii wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
12 years later, the DL/NW merger, which was widely panned by the business press when it was first announced, remains a text book case in how to merge two airlines. Sure, they had a lot of advantages going into it. They both filed Chapter 11 at roughly the same time. Their CEO's had enough knowledge of the other's operations. There was less overlap and an opportunity to deconstruct two hubs (MEM, CVG) and reassign the assets to other more profitable stations. Merging airlines is an extremely complex process and there are so many issues and tasks, many of which seem mundane, that, if not handled properly, can have a ripple effect on operations and the entire process can be unforgiving. DL/NW handled it very well. Of all the airline mergers in the US that happened since 2005 when the wave of consolidation kicked off with US/AW, the DL/NW one from a process standpoint, is a standout for all the right reasons. IMHO, AA/US comes in second. Although a forced marriage in some ways, from an execution standpoint, there were few disruptions that had a major impact on operations and the technology platform merger seemed quite smooth. UA/CO was, by contrast, a complete mess that took about 8 years to get the kinks out.


Widely panned by the business press? Where?


Google is your friend.

This was the first big airline merger of the era, and it followed the US/America West merger, with operationally was also a mess. The industry prior to 2008 was littered with messy mergers from the 1980s.
 
2eng2efficient
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Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:44 pm

Small hubs with poor O&D, bad economics, and/or poor resiliency during recessions were one of the elements that contributed to instability of airlines in the pre-merger era. That airlines had to “promise” that hubs were safe was purely politics. The “invisible hand” of the market is powerful and ultimately, inevitable hub closures occurred in the post-merger era. Markets move toward efficiency.

I write this as a native CVG-er that is sorry to no longer get to see daily A310s and 767s leaving for Europe, and 757s going to CMH. It wasn’t sustainable.

Today I get a lot of Amazon and DHL widebodies, and more 747s than CVG ever saw, so I’m not complaining.
 
micstatic
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Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:56 pm

Veigar wrote:
While understandable, Bastien's stance on heritage/retro liveries is a bit disappointing to me. So much opportunities for amazing heritage and retro liveries.


yeah I would love to see some. For some reason I had assumed the anti-heritage stance was a richard anderson thing. bummer
 
AEROFAN
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Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:22 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
Does Richard Anderson regret retiring the Saabs?


Given that he is no longer at the airline, why do you think he cares?
“You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.” ~Harlan Ellison~
 
ethernal
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Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:00 pm

micstatic wrote:
Veigar wrote:
While understandable, Bastien's stance on heritage/retro liveries is a bit disappointing to me. So much opportunities for amazing heritage and retro liveries.


yeah I would love to see some. For some reason I had assumed the anti-heritage stance was a richard anderson thing. bummer


I believe it's more of a Ned Walker thing, but I don't see why Tim Mapes will change anything. Delta believes in brand consistency above all else. Delta is very aggressive about maintaining consistency in appearance to the extent possible. There's no reason why livery would not be part of that. I don't see that position changing.
 
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Boeing757100
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Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:12 pm

What if I am a fan of DL but I also miss NW??
Going to ATL airport in 2019 is like being in 2013
Going to ATL airport in 2010 is like being in 2000
Going to ATL airport in 1998 is like being in 1988
Going to ATL airport in 2035 is like watching paint dry
 
JHCRJ700
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Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:21 pm

If anyone is looking for a very detailed look at Delta Airlines and the merger I highly recommend the book "Glory Lost and Found:How Delta Climbed from Despair to Dominance in the Post-9/11 Era" by Seth Kaplan and Jay Shabat.
It's the power and the glory, It's a war in paradise, A Cinderella story, On a tumble of the dice
 
catiii
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Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:28 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
catiii wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
12 years later, the DL/NW merger, which was widely panned by the business press when it was first announced, remains a text book case in how to merge two airlines. Sure, they had a lot of advantages going into it. They both filed Chapter 11 at roughly the same time. Their CEO's had enough knowledge of the other's operations. There was less overlap and an opportunity to deconstruct two hubs (MEM, CVG) and reassign the assets to other more profitable stations. Merging airlines is an extremely complex process and there are so many issues and tasks, many of which seem mundane, that, if not handled properly, can have a ripple effect on operations and the entire process can be unforgiving. DL/NW handled it very well. Of all the airline mergers in the US that happened since 2005 when the wave of consolidation kicked off with US/AW, the DL/NW one from a process standpoint, is a standout for all the right reasons. IMHO, AA/US comes in second. Although a forced marriage in some ways, from an execution standpoint, there were few disruptions that had a major impact on operations and the technology platform merger seemed quite smooth. UA/CO was, by contrast, a complete mess that took about 8 years to get the kinks out.


Widely panned by the business press? Where?


Google is your friend.

This was the first big airline merger of the era, and it followed the US/America West merger, with operationally was also a mess. The industry prior to 2008 was littered with messy mergers from the 1980s.


Google is YOUR friend too. The stories that I see are filled with quotes from the usual suspects in opposition to consolidation (i.e. consumer groups) and the initial opposition by NW labor. I haven't seen any stories by "the business press" which "widely panned" it. In fact CNBC said it was "a way to stabilize the volatile and fragmented industry by allowing carriers to cut costs, reduce capacity and raise fares."
 
catiii
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Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:33 pm

JHCRJ700 wrote:
If anyone is looking for a very detailed look at Delta Airlines and the merger I highly recommend the book "Glory Lost and Found:How Delta Climbed from Despair to Dominance in the Post-9/11 Era" by Seth Kaplan and Jay Shabat.


Seconded. This was a good read. Available on Kindle.
 
C525C
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Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:46 pm

Delta de-hubbing CVG was the best thing that could've happened if you were a fare-paying passenger. It allowed the entrance of the LLC/ULCC carriers and allowed fares to become affordable again.

During my stint in DL Reservations, the amount of hidden city ticketing taking place was out of hand. Pax using IND, DAY, CMH, even SDF to get fares 50% less than if departing CVG. And, of course, all flights made a conx in CVG!
 
deltairlines
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Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:01 pm

ethernal wrote:
micstatic wrote:
Veigar wrote:
While understandable, Bastien's stance on heritage/retro liveries is a bit disappointing to me. So much opportunities for amazing heritage and retro liveries.


yeah I would love to see some. For some reason I had assumed the anti-heritage stance was a richard anderson thing. bummer


I believe it's more of a Ned Walker thing, but I don't see why Tim Mapes will change anything. Delta believes in brand consistency above all else. Delta is very aggressive about maintaining consistency in appearance to the extent possible. There's no reason why livery would not be part of that. I don't see that position changing.


It's a combination of Ned, Tim and Glen on the brand consistency part. You'd need a pretty clean slate of people that touch the marketing side of the airline to get that mindset changed.
 
dstblj52
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Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:18 pm

deltairlines wrote:
ethernal wrote:
micstatic wrote:

yeah I would love to see some. For some reason I had assumed the anti-heritage stance was a richard anderson thing. bummer


I believe it's more of a Ned Walker thing, but I don't see why Tim Mapes will change anything. Delta believes in brand consistency above all else. Delta is very aggressive about maintaining consistency in appearance to the extent possible. There's no reason why livery would not be part of that. I don't see that position changing.


It's a combination of Ned, Tim and Glen on the brand consistency part. You'd need a pretty clean slate of people that touch the marketing side of the airline to get that mindset changed.

I totally get it from both brand consistency and average consumer POV so its a logical decision I just wish it wasn't so logical and probably the right move
 
MIflyer12
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Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:34 pm

C525C wrote:
Delta de-hubbing CVG was the best thing that could've happened if you were a fare-paying passenger. It allowed the entrance of the LLC/ULCC carriers and allowed fares to become affordable again.


It may have helped average fares but it didn't help frequency nor non-stop destination count, both of which are important to business travelers. Count CVG's non-stop destinations at the high of the hub (summer 2005), and count them today.
 
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NWAESC
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Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:51 pm

N312RC wrote:
I love it when someone on airliners who is usually named “Fly(smallstation)” gets upset because their grandfather/father/etc/whatever worked for/lived in/saw Ferris pass out at 31 flavors at/etc/whatever and is mad because the ERJ/CRJ/Metro/Brasilia/wherever flying out of their burg/city/town/whatever during regulation/the good old days/whatever is no longer there. Eye roll. Write your congressman.

A 737-200 going CVG-wherever in 2000 doesn’t make sense now. Sorry. You won’t be able to upload so many pics. The only place airline mergers other than disasters like NA/PA get panned are here, because someone’s mad that a 757 doesn’t go to their town anymore.


Lol. Totally, painfully true.

...And I love small airfields...

Long live the RedTail
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BAINY3
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Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:09 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
They both filed Chapter 11 at roughly the same time.

Literally on the same day.
 
Lootess
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Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:40 pm

dstblj52 wrote:
deltairlines wrote:
ethernal wrote:

I believe it's more of a Ned Walker thing, but I don't see why Tim Mapes will change anything. Delta believes in brand consistency above all else. Delta is very aggressive about maintaining consistency in appearance to the extent possible. There's no reason why livery would not be part of that. I don't see that position changing.


It's a combination of Ned, Tim and Glen on the brand consistency part. You'd need a pretty clean slate of people that touch the marketing side of the airline to get that mindset changed.

I totally get it from both brand consistency and average consumer POV so its a logical decision I just wish it wasn't so logical and probably the right move


The current Onward and Upward DELTA was a significant, clean, change in marketing direction.

Remember the days when Ron Allen Delta was still lugging around on signage and even planes even during the late Colors in Motion era.
 
PANAMsterdam
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Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:15 pm

BAINY3 wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
They both filed Chapter 11 at roughly the same time.

Literally on the same day.


Coincidence? Or was their merger already in the making behind the scenes?

Lootess wrote:
dstblj52 wrote:
deltairlines wrote:

It's a combination of Ned, Tim and Glen on the brand consistency part. You'd need a pretty clean slate of people that touch the marketing side of the airline to get that mindset changed.

I totally get it from both brand consistency and average consumer POV so its a logical decision I just wish it wasn't so logical and probably the right move


The current Onward and Upward DELTA was a significant, clean, change in marketing direction.


Honestly, I can't think of any other reason as to why the Delta widget on the tails are pointing to the Northwest, it must be (at very least) a little nod or wink to NW

Every country has an airline. The world has Pan Am.
 
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klm617
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Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:22 pm

C525C wrote:
Delta de-hubbing CVG was the best thing that could've happened if you were a fare-paying passenger. It allowed the entrance of the LLC/ULCC carriers and allowed fares to become affordable again.

During my stint in DL Reservations, the amount of hidden city ticketing taking place was out of hand. Pax using IND, DAY, CMH, even SDF to get fares 50% less than if departing CVG. And, of course, all flights made a conx in CVG!


I agree 100% . It also hinders growth at it's hubs because of it's reputation and airports don't want to mess with them.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
B757Forever
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Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:56 pm

BAINY3 wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
They both filed Chapter 11 at roughly the same time.

Literally on the same day.


I believe DL and NW filed initial court papers within 15 minutes of each other. Coincidence?
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meh130
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Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:00 pm

It was a well-executed merger, and set the standard for the UA-CO and AA-US mergers. I remember reading at the time the merger was helped by the fact the fleets, except for the 757-200, were mostly different. The allowed the pilot seniority lists to operate independently until the details were worked out. The fact the pilots agreed to a new contract made things simpler too. Getting the pilot buy in early was a big deal, and allowed management to hold them up as an example. IIRC, no pilots initially lost in the deal. They bumped up the pay rate in the new contract to whichever airline had the higher pay for that class of airframe. The FAs were more of a challenge, as NW's FAs were unionized and DL's were not. Ultimately, this was worked out as well going through two unionization votes. The fact NW's militant machinist union had been broken after their ongoing strike also helped. I had a NW pilot friend who said the mechanics lost all of the support of the pilots and FAs after they took pay cuts after 9/11.
 
deltairlines
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Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:32 pm

PANAMsterdam wrote:
Lootess wrote:
dstblj52 wrote:
I totally get it from both brand consistency and average consumer POV so its a logical decision I just wish it wasn't so logical and probably the right move


The current Onward and Upward DELTA was a significant, clean, change in marketing direction.


Honestly, I can't think of any other reason as to why the Delta widget on the tails are pointing to the Northwest, it must be (at very least) a little nod or wink to NW



Um...no. The current livery came out in 2007, well before any merger talks started. It has NOTHING to do with Northwest.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:38 pm

PANAMsterdam wrote:
BAINY3 wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
They both filed Chapter 11 at roughly the same time.

Literally on the same day.


Coincidence? Or was their merger already in the making behind the scenes?

Lootess wrote:
dstblj52 wrote:
I totally get it from both brand consistency and average consumer POV so its a logical decision I just wish it wasn't so logical and probably the right move


The current Onward and Upward DELTA was a significant, clean, change in marketing direction.


Honestly, I can't think of any other reason as to why the Delta widget on the tails are pointing to the Northwest, it must be (at very least) a little nod or wink to NW



Planned or coincidence but the widget is displaying a northwest direction! Always thought Delta should have different full directional widgets on their tails (nothing downward) with some exposing the top portion of the widget (just like on gate bridges and advertisements). After all, the D E L T A and widget Titles on fuselage is the main advertising drive so there wouldn't be brand inconsistency. At times the truncated widget is a bit unfulfilling.
 
dstblj52
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Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:18 pm

B757Forever wrote:
BAINY3 wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
They both filed Chapter 11 at roughly the same time.

Literally on the same day.


I believe DL and NW filed initial court papers within 15 minutes of each other. Coincidence?

it was the last day either could have filed under the old rules of bankruptcy there was a much less favorable to management keeping control of the company law that came into effect after that.
 
superjeff
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Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:12 pm

B757Forever wrote:
[qu

ote="BAINY3"]
Cointrin330 wrote:
They both filed Chapter 11 at roughly the same time.

Literally on the same day.


I believe DL and NW filed initial court papers within 15 minutes of each other. Coincidence?[/quote]

The date was not coincidental at all. The U.S. Bankruptcy laws were about to change and the revised law (which would have affected how the process worked) was not nearly as favorable. There were a bunch of filings prior to the new statute taking effect. That's why both Northwest and Delta filed the same time.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:15 am

PANAMsterdam wrote:
BAINY3 wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
They both filed Chapter 11 at roughly the same time.

Literally on the same day.


Coincidence? Or was their merger already in the making behind the scenes?

Lootess wrote:
dstblj52 wrote:
I totally get it from both brand consistency and average consumer POV so its a logical decision I just wish it wasn't so logical and probably the right move


The current Onward and Upward DELTA was a significant, clean, change in marketing direction.


Honestly, I can't think of any other reason as to why the Delta widget on the tails are pointing to the Northwest, it must be (at very least) a little nod or wink to NW



Delta unveiled its new livery in 2007 when it emerged from Chapter 11. The merger was a full year later.
 
alfa164
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Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:45 am

PANAMsterdam wrote:
Honestly, I can't think of any other reason as to why the Delta widget on the tails are pointing to the Northwest, it must be (at very least) a little nod or wink to NW]


Only on one side of the plane; on the other side, it points to the Northeast. There was no intention of emulating or "hinting at" a merger with NW.
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nwadeicer
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Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:09 am

ethernal wrote:
micstatic wrote:
Veigar wrote:
While understandable, Bastien's stance on heritage/retro liveries is a bit disappointing to me. So much opportunities for amazing heritage and retro liveries.


yeah I would love to see some. For some reason I had assumed the anti-heritage stance was a richard anderson thing. bummer


I believe it's more of a Ned Walker thing, but I don't see why Tim Mapes will change anything. Delta believes in brand consistency above all else. Delta is very aggressive about maintaining consistency in appearance to the extent possible. There's no reason why livery would not be part of that. I don't see that position changing.


God forbid you ever wear a lanyard that isn't straight black or has Delta on it somewhere...
I miss the Red Tail
 
n7371f
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Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:28 am

If you're looking for a recap of every article written in the press, yes. It's a good generic recap. But little to no access was provided to the authors by Delta thus it's essentially all anecdotal from press clippings. But it doesn't come close to telling the story.

JHCRJ700 wrote:
If anyone is looking for a very detailed look at Delta Airlines and the merger I highly recommend the book "Glory Lost and Found:How Delta Climbed from Despair to Dominance in the Post-9/11 Era" by Seth Kaplan and Jay Shabat.
 
PANAMsterdam
Posts: 368
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:45 am

Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:17 am

alfa164 wrote:
PANAMsterdam wrote:
Honestly, I can't think of any other reason as to why the Delta widget on the tails are pointing to the Northwest, it must be (at very least) a little nod or wink to NW]


Only on one side of the plane; on the other side, it points to the Northeast. There was no intention of emulating or "hinting at" a merger with NW.


The same can be said for a NW plane of course
Every country has an airline. The world has Pan Am.
 
Lootess
Posts: 692
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 6:15 am

Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:05 am

PANAMsterdam wrote:
BAINY3 wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
They both filed Chapter 11 at roughly the same time.

Literally on the same day.


Coincidence? Or was their merger already in the making behind the scenes?

Lootess wrote:
dstblj52 wrote:
I totally get it from both brand consistency and average consumer POV so its a logical decision I just wish it wasn't so logical and probably the right move


The current Onward and Upward DELTA was a significant, clean, change in marketing direction.


Honestly, I can't think of any other reason as to why the Delta widget on the tails are pointing to the Northwest, it must be (at very least) a little nod or wink to NW



Coincidence. Everyone at Delta wanted the widget back on the tail.

Silver NWA was my favorite branding from Northwest, the 747s and A330s were always a looker. I always liked how it was a mirror image of the compass even on the other side of the tail. It was also around the time they created Compass Airlines.

Image

Here was the 10 year merger video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Acr5HIEVADs
 
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75driver
Posts: 147
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:02 pm

Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:09 am

I don’t care about livery, lanyards, fare or service levels but I can say two of my best friends have come from the merger. There was a lot of consternation among pilots but in the end it turned out positive. I doubt either airline would like to take it back.
 
global1
Posts: 538
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:31 pm

Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:40 am

Ditto for me on the f/a side.
Delta has been a very good employer.
Best outcome possible.
 
PANAMsterdam
Posts: 368
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:45 am

Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:54 am

Lootess wrote:
PANAMsterdam wrote:
BAINY3 wrote:
Literally on the same day.


Coincidence? Or was their merger already in the making behind the scenes?

Lootess wrote:

The current Onward and Upward DELTA was a significant, clean, change in marketing direction.


Honestly, I can't think of any other reason as to why the Delta widget on the tails are pointing to the Northwest, it must be (at very least) a little nod or wink to NW



Coincidence. Everyone at Delta wanted the widget back on the tail.

Silver NWA was my favorite branding from Northwest, the 747s and A330s were always a looker. I always liked how it was a mirror image of the compass even on the other side of the tail. It was also around the time they created Compass Airlines.

Image

Here was the 10 year merger video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Acr5HIEVADs



Ah those were the days when AMS looked like MSP in the morning hours, with a wide variety of planes! DC-10's, 747's and A330's. Now their D-pier looks like ATL, with only A330's and an occasional 767 or A350.

NW's final livery is my favorite too! Looks very fresh, clean and to this day very modern.

75driver wrote:
I don’t care about livery, lanyards, fare or service levels but I can say two of my best friends have come from the merger. There was a lot of consternation among pilots but in the end it turned out positive. I doubt either airline would like to take it back.


You could say that NW's and DL's pilots are together flying.... the friendly skies :stirthepot: :duck:
Every country has an airline. The world has Pan Am.
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 2268
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:34 am

The final NWA livery was indeed fresh, clean and striking. The merger was a net positive for NW and DL employees, customers, and even though some of it was smoke and mirrors, the merged company has done a lot to make flying a generally better experience. I can say that from experience when things go wrong, having flown Delta amid snowstorms, mechanical issues, and other operational delays. The response times, options provided, and service levels were a cut above what I experienced at the time from the other US3 (2014-2018).
 
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klm617
Posts: 5467
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:29 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
The final NWA livery was indeed fresh, clean and striking. The merger was a net positive for NW and DL employees, customers, and even though some of it was smoke and mirrors, the merged company has done a lot to make flying a generally better experience. I can say that from experience when things go wrong, having flown Delta amid snowstorms, mechanical issues, and other operational delays. The response times, options provided, and service levels were a cut above what I experienced at the time from the other US3 (2014-2018).


I disagree as a customer it has impacted me very negatively. It depends on what part of the country you live in to whether you have been impacted negatively or not. Northwest served my needs way better than Delta ever has.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
Lootess
Posts: 692
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 6:15 am

Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:55 pm

klm617 wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
The final NWA livery was indeed fresh, clean and striking. The merger was a net positive for NW and DL employees, customers, and even though some of it was smoke and mirrors, the merged company has done a lot to make flying a generally better experience. I can say that from experience when things go wrong, having flown Delta amid snowstorms, mechanical issues, and other operational delays. The response times, options provided, and service levels were a cut above what I experienced at the time from the other US3 (2014-2018).


I disagree as a customer it has impacted me very negatively. It depends on what part of the country you live in to whether you have been impacted negatively or not. Northwest served my needs way better than Delta ever has.


Sounds like someone lives in MEM
 
alfa164
Posts: 3968
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:25 pm

Lootess wrote:
klm617 wrote:
I disagree as a customer it has impacted me very negatively. It depends on what part of the country you live in to whether you have been impacted negatively or not. Northwest served my needs way better than Delta ever has.

Sounds like someone lives in MEM


He/she is a the notorious anti-Delta, anti-WCAA Detroit troll. I guess you have missed all the posts over the years...
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
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southwest1675
Posts: 1617
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:03 am

Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:32 pm

I wish DL would do retro/historic liveries.
Herb Kelleher 1931-2019
 
Alias1024
Posts: 2807
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:13 am

Re: DL/NW Merger....12 Years Later

Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:38 pm

It sure doesn't feel like it's been 12 years. It has certainly been a success as the current Delta is far stronger than either was alone.

Cointrin330 wrote:
The final NWA livery was indeed fresh, clean and striking.

It was all of those. It also got a lot of grief on this site for shifting the branding away from 'Northwest' being prominent and instead 'nwa', as many immediately thought of the rap group that went by the same initials. Many wondered if an airline really wanted to bring to mind a group with the song 'F*** The Police' as part of their branding.

That and many felt the silver turned to a dull grey in the overcast conditions often seen in the midwest nearly all winter long.

PANAMsterdam wrote:

Honestly, I can't think of any other reason as to why the Delta widget on the tails are pointing to the Northwest, it must be (at very least) a little nod or wink to NW


They're pointing forward. Same as the last NW tail. On the other side they both point northeast because that's forward on that side of the aircraft.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.

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