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LAXintl
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Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:15 pm

Southwest Airlines today announced plans to add two new destinations later this year by initiating service year-round to both Miami International Airport (MIA), and Palm Springs International Airport (PSP). The carrier's initial flight schedule and service profile for each airport will be announced soon.

Press release:

Southwest Airlines Intends To Serve Miami And Palm Springs, Calif.
https://www.swamedia.com/releases/relea ... ings-calif

=

Pandemic or no pandemic seems SWA is out to win market share and grow. Suppose gotta do something with all those MAX planes coming
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
doug
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:21 pm

Ok I think Miami will add BWI,MDW,ATL and DAL for starters
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:23 pm

Interesting. So outside of EWR and SFB, is SAV now the biggest airport in the lower 48 states not served by WN?
 
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STT757
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:25 pm

AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
Interesting. So outside of EWR and SFB, is SAV now the biggest airport in the lower 48 states not served by WN?


IAH, DFW, JFK.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
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STT757
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:27 pm

AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
Interesting. So outside of EWR and SFB, is SAV now the biggest airport in the lower 48 states not served by WN?


IAH, DFW, JFK.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
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STT757
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:28 pm

STT757 wrote:
AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
Interesting. So outside of EWR and SFB, is SAV now the biggest airport in the lower 48 states not served by WN?


Greensboro, Myrtle Beach, Allentown, Scranton, Harrisburg.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:28 pm

STT757 wrote:
AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
Interesting. So outside of EWR and SFB, is SAV now the biggest airport in the lower 48 states not served by WN?


IAH, DFW, JFK.


D'oh! Thanks. Brain cramp.
 
737max8
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:29 pm

AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
STT757 wrote:
AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
Interesting. So outside of EWR and SFB, is SAV now the biggest airport in the lower 48 states not served by WN?


IAH, DFW, JFK.


D'oh! Thanks. Brain cramp.


FAT? gotta be bigger than SAV....i hope
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
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enilria
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:30 pm

doug wrote:
Ok I think Miami will add BWI,MDW,ATL and DAL for starters

I wonder if this is more like B6 moving LGB to LAX, but with FLL? Not that they would leave FLL, but perhaps this is more than it appears.
 
737max8
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:30 pm

enilria wrote:
doug wrote:
Ok I think Miami will add BWI,MDW,ATL and DAL for starters

I wonder if this is more like B6 moving LGB to LAX, but with FLL? Not that they would leave FLL, but perhaps this is more than it appears.


WN already flies planes to and from MIA for mx...why not make money with passengers on them. Especially cruise traffic
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
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DaCubbyBearBar
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:32 pm

MIA and PSP... WOW!! I don't expect but 3/4 a day at PSP but MIA could be in the 10-15 neighborhood.
I am me and no one else...so my opinions are mine
 
DaCubbyBearBar
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:35 pm

enilria wrote:
doug wrote:
Ok I think Miami will add BWI,MDW,ATL and DAL for starters

I wonder if this is more like B6 moving LGB to LAX, but with FLL? Not that they would leave FLL, but perhaps this is more than it appears.

WN just built that terminal extension in FLL. I can't see that they would be giving up on that already. I think this is kind of like the LA Basin, just covering all the bases. Now they have PBI, FLL and MIA.
I am me and no one else...so my opinions are mine
 
FSDan
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:38 pm

enilria wrote:
doug wrote:
Ok I think Miami will add BWI,MDW,ATL and DAL for starters

I wonder if this is more like B6 moving LGB to LAX, but with FLL? Not that they would leave FLL, but perhaps this is more than it appears.


Yeah, I'll be interested to see the way they split service between MIA and FLL. Perhaps MIA is a commonly requested destination from the airports where they're large enough to get a decent volume of local business traffic (HOU, STL, MDW, BNA, BWI, etc.)? I could see those types of destinations sustaining service to both MIA and FLL on WN, but for smaller stations if they're going to be starting MIA service, it might mean cutting FLL service.
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DeltaRules
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:38 pm

STT757 wrote:
STT757 wrote:
AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
Interesting. So outside of EWR and SFB, is SAV now the biggest airport in the lower 48 states not served by WN?


Greensboro, Myrtle Beach, Allentown, Scranton, Harrisburg.


Dayton, which they bailed on and I'd imagine would be comparabel in size to four of those five.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:40 pm

This is a great move, it was always annoying that they didn't serve MIA, now with PBI/FLL/MIA they've got great coverage of South Florida

Should be interesting to see what AA does here, knowing WN will likely add BWI/DAL/MDW-MIA.

We've got UA/F9/AA/WN/G4/NK/B6 all adding more Florida flying in the past month or two, how much more capacity can it take?
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:41 pm

Very exciting! I figured PSP wouldn't be too far off (the Coachella valley is just getting to be so popular again, and California might be a more alluring draw than places south of the border these days?) though I figured HDN might serve as WN's blueprint for a strictly seasonal winter and spring operation. Very interesting that WN is confident in making PSP work all year-round, even with ONT being a rather short, easy drive away.

MIA is even more shocking, though WN no doubt has plenty of FFer loyalty in the South Florida market already (as is true of Southern California as well). I certainly never thought WN would beat B6 to MIA, though! Perhaps these days American travelers are more comfortable "staying in their backyard" versus heading to foreign locales that they might otherwise visit. Perhaps WN sees now as the right time to enter an AA fortress hub. After all, competition seems to be heating up between the two competitors in PHX...
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
FSDan
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:43 pm

As for PSP, I'd think top candidates for service would be OAK and/or SJC, PHX, and DEN. Maybe MDW in the winter season. I don't know about LAS - that'd be a really short flight, even shorter than OAK-RNO.
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tphuang
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:43 pm

This + all the cuts to FLL seem to indicate WN has given up on FLL at their Latam gateway.
 
MavyWavyATR
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:43 pm

Why would WN open a MIA station if they already have a good sized operation nearby at FLL?
 
flyfresno
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:43 pm

737max8 wrote:
AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
STT757 wrote:

IAH, DFW, JFK.


D'oh! Thanks. Brain cramp.


FAT? gotta be bigger than SAV....i hope


Definitely FAT.
 
SRQLOT
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:46 pm

So Southwest! When can we expect SRQ announcement??? Ugh!!!
LO LH CL BA AZ WN UA DL AA B6 NK G4 F9
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WN732
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:46 pm

MavyWavyATR wrote:
Why would WN open a MIA station if they already have a good sized operation nearby at FLL?


Why serve all of the LA basin airports? Because it's good business.
 
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Miami
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:47 pm

Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:47 pm

tphuang wrote:
This + all the cuts to FLL seem to indicate WN has given up on FLL at their Latam gateway.


Yep I was surprised MBJ resumed but outside of that it's apparently done. MBJ is a strong O&D route . The inability to cater to VFR traffic to non-leisure destinations made it perhaps in hindsight a non-starter.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:54 pm

FSDan wrote:
enilria wrote:
doug wrote:
Ok I think Miami will add BWI,MDW,ATL and DAL for starters

I wonder if this is more like B6 moving LGB to LAX, but with FLL? Not that they would leave FLL, but perhaps this is more than it appears.


Yeah, I'll be interested to see the way they split service between MIA and FLL. Perhaps MIA is a commonly requested destination from the airports where they're large enough to get a decent volume of local business traffic (HOU, STL, MDW, BNA, BWI, etc.)?


Got to think they see them as (at least modestly) separate markets, as they do OAK and SFO. But if they didn't want to keep EWR...
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:14 pm

FSDan wrote:
enilria wrote:
doug wrote:
Ok I think Miami will add BWI,MDW,ATL and DAL for starters

I wonder if this is more like B6 moving LGB to LAX, but with FLL? Not that they would leave FLL, but perhaps this is more than it appears.


Yeah, I'll be interested to see the way they split service between MIA and FLL. Perhaps MIA is a commonly requested destination from the airports where they're large enough to get a decent volume of local business traffic (HOU, STL, MDW, BNA, BWI, etc.)? I could see those types of destinations sustaining service to both MIA and FLL on WN, but for smaller stations if they're going to be starting MIA service, it might mean cutting FLL service.


FLL is a larger destination for most US airports compared to MIA, and given the comments of a relatively small presence I don't see this meaning any sizable FLL cuts.

“We will win some new customers in those locations even though we will have a relatively small presence,” Kelly said

https://data.transportation.gov/Aviatio ... -tu9e/data
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/air ... m-springs/
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MIAFLLPBIFlyer
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:19 pm

I'd love to see WN give EYW another shot. Maybe that's down the road.
 
joeblow10
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:20 pm

OAK and DEN seem the most obvious adds for PSP. You can literally throw almost endless capacity on SFO-PSP it seems, OAK probably not much different. Maybe a LAS or PHX for connections, but DEN should already have that covered.
 
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enilria
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:20 pm

DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
enilria wrote:
doug wrote:
Ok I think Miami will add BWI,MDW,ATL and DAL for starters

I wonder if this is more like B6 moving LGB to LAX, but with FLL? Not that they would leave FLL, but perhaps this is more than it appears.

WN just built that terminal extension in FLL. I can't see that they would be giving up on that already. I think this is kind of like the LA Basin, just covering all the bases. Now they have PBI, FLL and MIA.

Then why aren’t they in ORD?
 
USAirALB
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:21 pm

Herb is rolling over in his grave!

Shocked to see MIA added but can't say I am too surprised given the lack of expansion opportunities. I expect service to be to BWI/DAL/MDW, maybe MCO or HOU. From PSP I expect OAK/MDW/DEN, maybe DAL or PHX.
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flyfresno
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:22 pm

joeblow10 wrote:
OAK and DEN seem the most obvious adds for PSP. You can literally throw almost endless capacity on SFO-PSP it seems, OAK probably not much different. Maybe a LAS or PHX for connections, but DEN should already have that covered.


SEA and/or PDX might also be good.
 
joeblow10
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:24 pm

enilria wrote:
DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
enilria wrote:
I wonder if this is more like B6 moving LGB to LAX, but with FLL? Not that they would leave FLL, but perhaps this is more than it appears.

WN just built that terminal extension in FLL. I can't see that they would be giving up on that already. I think this is kind of like the LA Basin, just covering all the bases. Now they have PBI, FLL and MIA.

Then why aren’t they in ORD?


I was going to argue costs... but now they’ve gone to MIA which is not a cheap airport by any stretch of the imagination.

Wouldn’t surprise me to see them try some Intl stuff that may not be working out so well at FLL at MIA, given what a huge market it is. Then again, you lose the connections
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:25 pm

enilria wrote:
Then why aren’t they in ORD?


That's another good example, but I think one can argue ORD and MDW aren't quite so separated by a bay/bridges, or truly miserable traffic.

It will be interesting to see how MIA destination set and frequencies evolve, and if they have to cut back FLL in response.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:26 pm

I still can’t believe they weren’t able to make EWR work but they are going to add MIA which is down the road from their “hub” in FLL. Maybe if they sold it as New York/Newark like every other airline it would have worked... But good for WN to expand but not relevant if you live in New Jersey like me. lol.
 
jfk777
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:30 pm

Southwest in Miami, I thought I would never live to see the day. FLL was there "Big" South Florida airport. Always expected Jetblue at MIA before Southwest. Midway, BWI, Houston and Love Field would be my picks.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:31 pm

STT757 wrote:
STT757 wrote:
AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
Interesting. So outside of EWR and SFB, is SAV now the biggest airport in the lower 48 states not served by WN?


Greensboro, Myrtle Beach, Allentown, Scranton, Harrisburg.


SAV handled way more pax than any of those in 2019, same with FAT.

Now if you’re referring purely to metro populations, then yeah I guess all those places are bigger than SAV. SYR and even TOL are, but as if WN would ever serve TOL - LOL!
 
AAflyguy
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:45 pm

joeblow10 wrote:
OAK and DEN seem the most obvious adds for PSP. You can literally throw almost endless capacity on SFO-PSP it seems, OAK probably not much different. Maybe a LAS or PHX for connections, but DEN should already have that covered.


If WN is smart, they will do a couple of daily OAK-PSP trips and keep some of that East Bay traffic from going to SFO unnecessarily. A fair share of the market destined for PSP from the Bay Area is coming from areas closer to OAK but there’s been no nonstop service in years. So I’m totally onboard with your thought and DEN is a solid guess, too. Given this is starting early in the tourist season, they’ll probably be at like 6x daily out of the gate ( 2x daily to 3 markets is my guess) and perhaps cut back after May if they see softening for summer demand. If Hawaii still hasn’t reopened by October places like PSP are going to get even more popular because it’s an easy to get to resort destination.

AAflyguy
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:52 pm

Never expected this (MIA), PSP I figured "possibly" down the road but [email protected] shows us one thing. COVID has changed EVERYTHING. I hesitate to guess what routes ex-MIA they'll be launching...their major stations, their smaller stations, a mixture of both? Will FLL and MIA complement or "compete" with each other? Will they launch int'l from MIA or keep that at FLL in the future? Will AA respond? Do they even care? (Probably, but they'll have to wait and see like the rest of us.)
Next up: STL DEN PSP DEN STL
 
MAH4546
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:23 pm

For Miami, outside of obvious - Dallas Love, Chicago Midway and Baltimore - I also expect Havana.
a.
 
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usdcaguy
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:48 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
For Miami, outside of obvious - Dallas Love, Chicago Midway and Baltimore - I also expect Havana.


I see them dropping FLL-HAV and starting MIA-HAV to pick up local traffic, if they decide to start it. I'd be curious to see which cities they will be serving out of MIA nonstop. My bets are on ATL/HOU/MDW/LGA/STL, though not all 5. I don't see the advantage of trying to compete with AA on DAL-MIA. Seems like AA would do all they could to dump capacity in the market. By offering LGA-MIA, however, WN could pick up more NYC traffic and increase the loyalty of local flyers, though the market has always been competitive. Not sure about HOU-MIA, as it's not a huge market and UA/AA seem to have it wrapped up.
 
dfwjim1
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:49 pm

And once again FAT gets no love from LUV.
 
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usdcaguy
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:53 pm

joeblow10 wrote:
OAK and DEN seem the most obvious adds for PSP. You can literally throw almost endless capacity on SFO-PSP it seems, OAK probably not much different. Maybe a LAS or PHX for connections, but DEN should already have that covered.


I think you may be right about that, though PHX might be tempting for WN as it's closer and easier to squeeze into a schedule. DEN already has UA and F9. But where will WN get the gates at PSP? I thought they were basically all taken, and I don't believe WN would board on the tarmac. They must be trying to squeeze themselves into a CUTE gate, in which case they will likely be offering 2-3 flights a day.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:03 pm

PSP is one of my absolutely-favorite airports. Glad to see it's getting more then puddle-jumpers and Alaska (and AA from DFW) on a year-round basis.
 
MAH4546
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:16 pm

usdcaguy wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
For Miami, outside of obvious - Dallas Love, Chicago Midway and Baltimore - I also expect Havana.


I see them dropping FLL-HAV and starting MIA-HAV to pick up local traffic, if they decide to start it. I'd be curious to see which cities they will be serving out of MIA nonstop. My bets are on ATL/HOU/MDW/LGA/STL, though not all 5. I don't see the advantage of trying to compete with AA on DAL-MIA. Seems like AA would do all they could to dump capacity in the market. By offering LGA-MIA, however, WN could pick up more NYC traffic and increase the loyalty of local flyers, though the market has always been competitive. Not sure about HOU-MIA, as it's not a huge market and UA/AA seem to have it wrapped up.


Miami-Dallas and -Houston are both massive local markets. Don’t see why WN would be scared by AA/UA (and F9 also flies MIADFW).

FLLHAV has already been discontinued so I suspect they’ll apply to move the slots to MIA.

I also think MIASJU.

Miami I think would launch with a dozen daily flights or so, so lots of possibilitIes. DEN, LAS, PHX maybe too. And some Saturday markets for the cruises.
a.
 
cschleic
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:48 pm

flyfresno wrote:
joeblow10 wrote:
OAK and DEN seem the most obvious adds for PSP. You can literally throw almost endless capacity on SFO-PSP it seems, OAK probably not much different. Maybe a LAS or PHX for connections, but DEN should already have that covered.


SEA and/or PDX might also be good.


Yes, even if less than daily. Lots of OR / WA residents have condos in the PSP area.
 
uconn99
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:54 pm

flyfresno wrote:
737max8 wrote:
AVLAirlineFreq wrote:

D'oh! Thanks. Brain cramp.


FAT? gotta be bigger than SAV....i hope


Definitely FAT.


Nope.

2019 Enplanments:

SAV- 1,461,360
MYR- 1,285,200
GSO- 1,076,876
FAT- 966,607
MDT- 746,369
ABE- 434,007
AVP- 288,973
 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:11 am

Assuming the Latin American gateway is done, I would not be shocked if FLL is trimmed to just ATL/BNA/BWI/HOU/DAL and maybe SJU a year or two from now. No need to fly MDW year-round either, that flying can be shifted to MIA. DEN/LAS/PHX can also be shifted to MIA. ISP is a bit of a niche route so if Long Island isn't dropped outright from the WN network I'd expect FLL/PBI-ISP to stay. Same for PVD and BDL. Maybe just fly east of the Mississippi from FLL. Anything west can be shifted to MIA long-term.
 
Corpsnerd09
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:21 am

Anyone wonder how this will affect DL's attempts to grow MIA with the LA deal? Now with more competition it'll be harder to capture the local traffic between AA's name recognition, F9s cheap fares and WN's popularity already in the metro area and niche market. Sounds like DL may have a tougher time than first imagined a year ago.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:49 am

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
Assuming the Latin American gateway is done, I would not be shocked if FLL is trimmed to just ATL/BNA/BWI/HOU/DAL and maybe SJU a year or two from now. No need to fly MDW year-round either, that flying can be shifted to MIA. DEN/LAS/PHX can also be shifted to MIA. ISP is a bit of a niche route so if Long Island isn't dropped outright from the WN network I'd expect FLL/PBI-ISP to stay. Same for PVD and BDL. Maybe just fly east of the Mississippi from FLL. Anything west can be shifted to MIA long-term.


Why do you think FLL is so inferior an airport for O&D traffic that most everything should be moved to MIA?
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Southwest launch service to Miami & Palm Springs

Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:50 am

Corpsnerd09 wrote:
Anyone wonder how this will affect DL's attempts to grow MIA with the LA deal? Now with more competition it'll be harder to capture the local traffic between AA's name recognition, F9s cheap fares and WN's popularity already in the metro area and niche market. Sounds like DL may have a tougher time than first imagined a year ago.


Nothing is the same it was a year ago. WN wouldn't be competing to LATAM's destinations, anyway.

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