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D L X
Topic Author
Posts: 12725
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

Flying-V model maiden flight

Sun Sep 06, 2020 2:01 am

Has there been any discussion about this “Flying-V” project? Allegedly both KLM and Airbus are involved.

Any legs to it at all?

https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/fly ... st-flight/
 
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DL747400
Posts: 983
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:04 pm

Re: Flying-V model maiden flight

Sun Sep 06, 2020 2:44 pm

Exceptionally interesting and very sexy design, but over the years the data have seemed to suggest that the more traditional blended wing body (BWB) design (like the one Boeing has been working on) is more stable throughout all phases of flight. The BWB also has the advantage of many more years of study along with a potentially more spacious and flexible interior.

Nevertheless, it is exciting to see research into design alternative to the conventional flying tube and wing configuration.
 
Noshow
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Re: Flying-V model maiden flight

Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:34 pm

Would something like this be considered to be "unstable" like certain fighters are intentionally designed? So will it need working computers to be able to fly straightforward at all times?
 
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JannEejit
Posts: 1809
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:04 pm

Re: Flying-V model maiden flight

Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:07 pm

DL747400 wrote:
Exceptionally interesting and very sexy design, but over the years the data have seemed to suggest that the more traditional blended wing body (BWB) design (like the one Boeing has been working on) is more stable throughout all phases of flight. The BWB also has the advantage of many more years of study.


But we still have nothing that's gone into production ? Why is that ?
 
blooc350
Posts: 213
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:10 pm

Re: Flying-V model maiden flight

Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:19 pm

DL747400 wrote:
Exceptionally interesting and very sexy design, but over the years the data have seemed to suggest that the more traditional blended wing body (BWB) design (like the one Boeing has been working on) is more stable throughout all phases of flight. The BWB also has the advantage of many more years of study along with a potentially more spacious and flexible interior.

Nevertheless, it is exciting to see research into design alternative to the conventional flying tube and wing configuration.



meh, I hope this doesn't come to life in our life time lol
 
FGITD
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Re: Flying-V model maiden flight

Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:24 pm

Would hate to have a seat far out in one of the wing portions...
 
mxaxai
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Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:29 am

Re: Flying-V model maiden flight

Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:30 pm

Noshow wrote:
Would something like this be considered to be "unstable" like certain fighters are intentionally designed? So will it need working computers to be able to fly straightforward at all times?

Not necessarily, just like a BWB is not inherently unstable.
 
T4thH
Posts: 1276
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Flying-V model maiden flight

Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:35 pm

Please note, these are the "results" of the European Clean Sky I and II program and the on-going Clean Sky III. This is all part of fundamental research of these programs.
Still, pretty sure, we will not see them ever as passenger jet (and this is good so).
Just remind, there shall be a pressurized cabin in the wings, with windows at the front edge of the wing.
Just think of a 4 kg goose, which hit the wing at 800 km/h in 8 km altitude, not only the cabin has to be protected, that it will crack and lose pressure, it has also be taken care, that not splinters from the inside of the wing skin will fly around and hit passengers. How thick are the windows of the cockpit, how thick and heavy have to be the windows for the passengers? And how much fun the passengers will have, when the V wing will fly through a nice hail shower. How loud it will be when 3 cm hails will hit the wing, will it damage the hearing of the passengers? The wing has to be armored, additional weight, so heavy, more fuel...

What is the standard crash on airports? The wing is clipping something or someone is driving with stairs against the wing? With passengers inside, it is not any more funny.


Collapse of landing gear e.g., wing is touching the ground.....with passengers inside, not any more so funny.
 
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DL747400
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Re: Flying-V model maiden flight

Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:44 pm

FGITD wrote:
Would hate to have a seat far out in one of the wing portions...


Make those seats exclusively for Basic Economy. Problem solved.
 
D L X
Topic Author
Posts: 12725
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Re: Flying-V model maiden flight

Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:23 am

DL747400 wrote:
FGITD wrote:
Would hate to have a seat far out in one of the wing portions...


Make those seats exclusively for Basic Economy. Problem solved.

And have the newbies and I frequent fliers puking more.
 
airbuster
Posts: 495
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:43 am

Re: Flying-V model maiden flight

Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:54 am

T4thH wrote:
Please note, these are the "results" of the European Clean Sky I and II program and the on-going Clean Sky III. This is all part of fundamental research of these programs.
Still, pretty sure, we will not see them ever as passenger jet (and this is good so).
Just remind, there shall be a pressurized cabin in the wings, with windows at the front edge of the wing.
Just think of a 4 kg goose, which hit the wing at 800 km/h in 8 km altitude, not only the cabin has to be protected, that it will crack and lose pressure, it has also be taken care, that not splinters from the inside of the wing skin will fly around and hit passengers. How thick are the windows of the cockpit, how thick and heavy have to be the windows for the passengers? And how much fun the passengers will have, when the V wing will fly through a nice hail shower. How loud it will be when 3 cm hails will hit the wing, will it damage the hearing of the passengers? The wing has to be armored, additional weight, so heavy, more fuel...

What is the standard crash on airports? The wing is clipping something or someone is driving with stairs against the wing? With passengers inside, it is not any more funny.


Collapse of landing gear e.g., wing is touching the ground.....with passengers inside, not any more so funny.


I don’t think you would need real windows. Make them virtual with UHD screens. By the time this flies you can even use them for the cockpit.
 
kalvado
Posts: 3308
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

Re: Flying-V model maiden flight

Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:11 pm

DL747400 wrote:
FGITD wrote:
Would hate to have a seat far out in one of the wing portions...


Make those seats exclusively for Basic Economy. Problem solved.

Better keep them for non-revs
 
Heinkel
Posts: 322
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:15 pm

Re: Flying-V model maiden flight

Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:20 pm

Oh dear. A-NET is a strange place.

In many posts the members are lamenting, how boring the standard "tube with wings" design is.

Now comes a new design and suddenly, there are so many reasons, why it can never work. OK it is NIH but you should be happy, that someone thinks out of the box.

It is a feasibility study from an university and far, far away from series production.

And note: Many of the reasons mentioned, why it couldn't work, is dangerous etc. are also valid for a BWB aircraft.

My father still learned at school, that rocket engines can't work outside the atmosphere, because there is no air to push against. Today we know better.

My bet is, that the standard "tube with wings" design with engines below the wings will still be among us for a long time as the standard.

Like the standard cars today have still two axles, four wheels and doors on the sides, like they had in the 1930s. And the vast majority are powered by internal combustion piston engines. The cars and aircraft today don't look like the renderings in "Popular Mechanics" from the 1950s and 1960s. No nuclear powered cars and a/c 60 years later.

So expect no really new a/c design for the next 20 years. Then I'm 83 of age and I don't think beyond that threshold.
 
superjeff
Posts: 1441
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:14 am

Re: Flying-V model maiden flight

Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:02 pm

Heinkel wrote:
Oh dear. A-NET is a strange place.

In many posts the members are lamenting, how boring the standard "tube with wings" design is.

Now comes a new design and suddenly, there are so many reasons, why it can never work. OK it is NIH but you should be happy, that someone thinks out of the box.

It is a feasibility study from an university and far, far away from series production.

And note: Many of the reasons mentioned, why it couldn't work, is dangerous etc. are also valid for a BWB aircraft.

My father still learned at school, that rocket engines can't work outside the atmosphere, because there is no air to push against. Today we know better.

My bet is, that the standard "tube with wings" design with engines below the wings will still be among us for a long time as the standard.

Like the standard cars today have still two axles, four wheels and doors on the sides, like they had in the 1930s. And the vast majority are powered by internal combustion piston engines. The cars and aircraft today don't look like the renderings in "Popular Mechanics" from the 1950s and 1960s. No nuclear powered cars and a/c 60 years later.

So expect no really new a/c design for the next 20 years. Then I'm 83 of age and I don't think beyond that threshold.


At 72, I'm not that far behind you, and feel the same way. But, like with anything else, who knows?
 
Heinkel
Posts: 322
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:15 pm

Re: Flying-V model maiden flight

Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:15 pm

superjeff wrote:
Heinkel wrote:
So expect no really new a/c design for the next 20 years. Then I'm 83 of age and I don't think beyond that threshold.


At 72, I'm not that far behind you, and feel the same way. But, like with anything else, who knows?


To make things clear, I'm 63 now and 83 in 20 years.

In the next 20 years to come, I hope to have some enjoyable flights in a (real) window seat on a traditional "tube with wings" a/c. Business Class on the upper deck of Singapore Airlines' A380 preferred. Been there, done that. A real window is a conditio sine qua non for me. With a mechanical shade under my personal control only.
 
FlyingHonu001
Posts: 497
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:33 pm

Re: Flying-V model maiden flight

Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:53 pm

Not to get carried away, im 25 and I would love to see more innovations like this become reality. Flying V went from a drawing board concept to a flying scale model prototype in a relative short time. With Virgin Galactic up in the air, electric airplanes also being fully developed and Rolls Royce even working on an reincarnation of Concorde, the next 20 years is gonna be interesting to say the least.
 
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afterburner
Posts: 1466
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:38 am

Re: Flying-V model maiden flight

Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:05 pm

FGITD wrote:
Would hate to have a seat far out in one of the wing portions...

This.
One thing that won't make flying wings like this became passenger aircraft in the near future is the limitation of human physiology. We may live long enough to see them flying as drones and freighters, but not carrying passengers.
 
kalvado
Posts: 3308
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

Re: Flying-V model maiden flight

Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:18 pm

When it was discussed on a.net a few years back, an idea that even if the model will not go too far, those who worked on the project - university students - may, and likely will, become industry professionals with certain experience which cannot be learnt in a classroom. New ideas generated during the project, closer analysis of strong and weak sides are also benefitial, both for sponsors and students.
Result is a lot bigger than a strange looking drone...
 
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Dutchy
Posts: 12603
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Flying-V model maiden flight

Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:36 pm

D L X wrote:
Has there been any discussion about this “Flying-V” project? Allegedly both KLM and Airbus are involved.

Any legs to it at all?

https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/fly ... st-flight/


Yes, Airbus is involved. It is a project from TU Delft, a technical university in the Netherlands, more info: here

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