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MDGLongBeach
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JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:20 pm

In a very surprising and uncalled for move by John Wayne Airport officials, JSX has confirmed it has been notified that they are "no longer welcome at SNA" effective January 1st, 2021. In a rather desperate PR move, JSX is taking to social media to ask customers to petition the airport council to allow the airline to continue operations as it has done for the past couple years. No reason for their removal has been given. If they're unsuccessful in their campaigning, where would they consolidate their SNA operations to? They were successful in Orange County and the business model was relatively successful from what I hear, does this mean they will they go full-in on BUR? Maybe another LA airport? I'm curious to hear your guys' thoughts.

https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/jetsuit ... -for-help/

EDIT: just read through the email again, they claim that SNA council is requiring them to use the airport terminal and not the FBO. For those who know, this is completely against JSX's marketing strategy and I can only imagine such a move will force JSX to relocate.
Last edited by MDGLongBeach on Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
phxa340
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Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:30 pm

SNA I’m sure has their reasons, they want as much air service as possible. I’m sure JSX has violated something or not been paying their bills. To say uncalled for is .... not really looking at this objectively or logically.
 
F9Animal
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Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:32 pm

Wow!! Unreal!! I swear SNA has no heart whatsoever. The pandemic was enough, but to take aim at JSX is just insanity. Maybe JSX will be better off without that airport?
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
jetblueguy22
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Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:32 pm

Betting SNA is looking for a way to make some extra money and this is a simple way to do it
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
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LAXintl
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Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:35 pm

They operate and market themselves as a schedule service operation, so they need to operate from the terminal, not an FBO.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
MDGLongBeach
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Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:39 pm

LAXintl wrote:
They operate and market themselves as a schedule service operation, so they need to operate from the terminal, not an FBO.


From how I interpreted the email, the company is fine operating out of the terminal so long that the airport can provide them a dedicated, isolated space so they can still feel the "private jet experience". Though, SNA as we all know doesn't bend over backwards for anyone, and I doubt they'll cater to these demands by JSX. In all honestly, just like everything else, it's all about the $$$ in the end.
 
Flflyer83
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Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:42 pm

They’re, obviously, flying a scheduled passenger service with 30 passenger aircraft, why are they not required to operate as a Part 121 carrier and operate via TSA controlled facilities?
 
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UPlog
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Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:50 pm

Its hardly uncalled for, nor a surprise.

When they showed up in 2018 their agreement to utilize the FBO came with an annual 35,000 annual passenger cap (out of total FBO 69,000 cap).

Keep in mind there are environmental regulations under CEQA that govern traffic at the FBO.

Sure using the terminal adds cost and goes against their business model, but they are hardly a "charter" operator as they very much publish and sell seats on regularly scheduled flights.
I fly your boxes
 
MDGLongBeach
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Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:01 pm

UPlog wrote:
Its hardly uncalled for, nor a surprise.

When they showed up in 2018 their agreement to utilize the FBO came with an annual 35,000 annual passenger cap (out of total FBO 69,000 cap).

Keep in mind there are environmental regulations under CEQA that govern traffic at the FBO.

Sure using the terminal adds cost and goes against their business model, but they are hardly a "charter" operator as they very much publish and sell seats on regularly scheduled flights.


May be a stupid question, but is the FBO they utilize at SNA owned by JSX, or do they just contract its space and services?
 
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LAXintl
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Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:04 pm

They use the ACI Jet FBO

https://fbo.acijet.com/orange-county/

The issue here is they are not a small operation that can 'fly under the radar' so to speak, but have grown to quite a meaningful scheduled operation and don't really merit FBO waiver from 2018 any longer in my view.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
TonyClifton
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Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:14 pm

LAXintl wrote:
They use the ACI Jet FBO

https://fbo.acijet.com/orange-county/

The issue here is they are not a small operation that can 'fly under the radar' so to speak, but have grown to quite a meaningful scheduled operation and don't really merit FBO waiver from 2018 any longer in my view.

That’s the Catch 22. Small operator benefits from and markets the difference they can offer, then gets too popular and big.
 
MDGLongBeach
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Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:15 pm

LAXintl wrote:
They use the ACI Jet FBO

https://fbo.acijet.com/orange-county/

The issue here is they are not a small operation that can 'fly under the radar' so to speak, but have grown to quite a meaningful scheduled operation and don't really merit FBO waiver from 2018 any longer in my view.


Seems like this all goes against what JSX is about. CEO Wilcox is demanding the airport make a special space for JSX so they can maintain their 20 minute check in promise. Doesn't look like JSX will maintain their ops at SNA unless something drastic happens.
 
HII
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Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:00 pm

Flflyer83 wrote:
They’re, obviously, flying a scheduled passenger service with 30 passenger aircraft, why are they not required to operate as a Part 121 carrier and operate via TSA controlled facilities?


Because they operate as a Part 135 carrier, similar to others around the country. Quite simple actually.
 
hiflyeras
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Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:05 am

They were lucky to skirt the rules as long as they did at SNA. Adios.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:05 am

Waaaah! :hissyfit: How dare SNA expect me to abide by the same rules as everyone else. That is so unfair. :mad:
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:13 am

i think this is a huge deal. I got an email from JSX with airport emails to tell them to allow JSX. they must be asking previous customers to email as a last hail mary.

I thought BUR and SNA were there two standout stations for JSX. I think this is a huge hit for them. Their target demo is in the OC also a move to Long Beach not be good or work for them, probably no chance of working. Carlsbad would be terrible and lose alot of their base, but thats the only other airport i can see as a realistic option. They would probably need to form almost an entirely new base of flyers. San Celemente, Laguna, Dana Point flyers might make the move and they gain San Diego northern coastal towns. I think this would be a huge blow to them and really reduce cash flow quickly if they are forced out of SNA. Not a good situation for them to have happen here.
 
Newark727
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Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:22 am

Unfortunate - flying them out of SNA was a delight the one time I did it. But they were probably risking this outcome for some time now.
 
joeblow10
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Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:24 am

HII wrote:
Flflyer83 wrote:
They’re, obviously, flying a scheduled passenger service with 30 passenger aircraft, why are they not required to operate as a Part 121 carrier and operate via TSA controlled facilities?


Because they operate as a Part 135 carrier, similar to others around the country. Quite simple actually.


Yeah kind of amazing all the hate going on for JSX here. Seems to me snobs at SNA are trying to essentially force JSX to operate with the other 121s when that’s just not their model.

They are not “skirting the rules” - their whole model is operating under an entirely different set of rules from the FAA. Perfectly legitimate... at a normal functioning airport. Lord knows anything in the LA metro area doesn’t qualify under said functionality
Last edited by joeblow10 on Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
aaway
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Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:25 am

The issue is that OC Board of Commissioners approved a master plan for redevelopment of general aviation facilities - including FBOs. The jist - as is typically the case with OC airport issues - is that the board felt compelled to mollify key constituencies opposed to (further) development at SNA. In simplistic terms, SNA can go ahead with it's plan for GA facilities, but anything that is a "scheduled" operation must now operate from the air carrier terminal.
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one." - Elbert Hubbard
 
ytib
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Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:29 am

aaway wrote:
The issue is that OC Board of Commissioners approved a master plan for redevelopment of general aviation facilities - including FBOs. The jist - as is typically the case with OC airport issues - is that the board felt compelled to mollify key constituencies opposed to (further) development at SNA. In simplistic terms, SNA can go ahead with it's plan for GA facilities, but anything that is a "scheduled" operation must now operate from the air carrier terminal.


The following discusses this more so from the view of the City of Newport Beach.
https://www.newportbeachca.gov/Home/Com ... 38588/2720
318, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 388, 707, 717, 722, 732, 733, 734, 73Q, 735, 73G, 738, 7M8, 739, 752, 753, 742, 74L, 744, 762, 763, 772, 77L, 77W, 789, 142, CN1, CR2, CR7, DC8, DH2, DH8, D8Q, D10, D95, EM2, ER3, ER4, E70, 100, J31, M11, M83, M88, M90, SF3
 
MDGLongBeach
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Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:07 am

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
i think this is a huge deal. I got an email from JSX with airport emails to tell them to allow JSX. they must be asking previous customers to email as a last hail mary.

I thought BUR and SNA were there two standout stations for JSX. I think this is a huge hit for them. Their target demo is in the OC also a move to Long Beach not be good or work for them, probably no chance of working. Carlsbad would be terrible and lose alot of their base, but thats the only other airport i can see as a realistic option. They would probably need to form almost an entirely new base of flyers. San Celemente, Laguna, Dana Point flyers might make the move and they gain San Diego northern coastal towns. I think this would be a huge blow to them and really reduce cash flow quickly if they are forced out of SNA. Not a good situation for them to have happen here.


The ties are already cut with LGB. When JetSuite first started operations, the company was based here but then the CEO and LGB council battled each other for a few months which eventually led led to JS's departure to BUR.

Heres a decent article from a local guy: https://klgb.blogspot.com/2011/06/jetsu ... ounty.html
 
ScottB
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Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:08 pm

joeblow10 wrote:
They are not “skirting the rules” - their whole model is operating under an entirely different set of rules from the FAA. Perfectly legitimate... at a normal functioning airport. Lord knows anything in the LA metro area doesn’t qualify under said functionality


Well, operating what amounts to a scheduled carrier under rules which likely were never intended for scheduled service is indeed "skirting the rules." No one says they're breaking the law; they're just exploiting a loophole in the law. They're also one deranged passenger or 60 Minutes piece away from having their business model blow up figuratively, if not literally. The appeal is basically that they'll fly you on a schedule without having to deal with TSA. It's a charter flight that really isn't a charter flight.

LAXintl wrote:
The issue here is they are not a small operation that can 'fly under the radar' so to speak, but have grown to quite a meaningful scheduled operation and don't really merit FBO waiver from 2018 any longer in my view.


:checkmark: When they carry passenger counts which are likely comparable to smaller carriers operating from the passenger terminal, are they really different from the standpoint of the airport operator?
 
bennett123
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Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:42 pm

Does SNA really not benefit from these flights?..
 
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usxguy
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Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:52 pm

They don't get PFC $$$ nor the same high rent from the terminal.
xx
 
Cubsrule
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Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:29 pm

ScottB wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
The issue here is they are not a small operation that can 'fly under the radar' so to speak, but have grown to quite a meaningful scheduled operation and don't really merit FBO waiver from 2018 any longer in my view.


:checkmark: When they carry passenger counts which are likely comparable to smaller carriers operating from the passenger terminal, are they really different from the standpoint of the airport operator?


For me the difficult question is who, as between the airport operator and FAA, gets to decide what sort of operation is “acceptable” from an FBO. And given the extensive federal regulation of airports, it’s difficult for me to construct an intellectually honest argument against FAA being the appropriate decider.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
weaglibrium
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Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:56 pm

usxguy wrote:
They don't get PFC $$$ nor the same high rent from the terminal.


Terminal rent should be generally cost recovery - so the airport is financially indifferent to if there is one carrier or 100 carriers; 1 passenger or 1 million passengers. Granted, the question of equity among carriers operating under a difference scheme still exists. There are ways to still generate offsetting revenue via rates and charges for specific types of operations.

Further, if JSX is enplaning 1% or more of passengers at the airport, they should be collecting PFCs. (FAA limits excluding classes of carriers based on that threshold) Chartered aircraft at most airports, using terminals or FBOs, generally pay PFCs.

If there’s any financial impact here, it’s a problem with the rates and charges scheme, not JSX.
 
joeblow10
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Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:35 pm

ScottB wrote:
joeblow10 wrote:
They are not “skirting the rules” - their whole model is operating under an entirely different set of rules from the FAA. Perfectly legitimate... at a normal functioning airport. Lord knows anything in the LA metro area doesn’t qualify under said functionality


Well, operating what amounts to a scheduled carrier under rules which likely were never intended for scheduled service is indeed "skirting the rules." No one says they're breaking the law; they're just exploiting a loophole in the law. They're also one deranged passenger or 60 Minutes piece away from having their business model blow up figuratively, if not literally. The appeal is basically that they'll fly you on a schedule without having to deal with TSA. It's a charter flight that really isn't a charter flight.

LAXintl wrote:
The issue here is they are not a small operation that can 'fly under the radar' so to speak, but have grown to quite a meaningful scheduled operation and don't really merit FBO waiver from 2018 any longer in my view.


:checkmark: When they carry passenger counts which are likely comparable to smaller carriers operating from the passenger terminal, are they really different from the standpoint of the airport operator?


I encourage you to open up the FAR and read 135/91/380. It's literally designed for operations like JSX... and Boutique, and Air Choice One, and Contour, and Key Lime Air, on and on

Not meant to be contrived, but it's a perfectly legitimate way to operate. SNA should never have let them on property in the first place if it represented such a big issue to them. It seems to me management probably didn't think it would succeed, and now that they realize it is, they feel they are missing out on fees. That's SNA's fault, not JSX's
 
wedgetail737
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Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:48 pm

Newark727 wrote:
Unfortunate - flying them out of SNA was a delight the one time I did it. But they were probably risking this outcome for some time now.


I have yet to try them out of BFI. I guess I'm too loyal to AS. Ironically out of all of this, JSX uses the King County Terminal out of BFI...same terminal used by Kenmore Air Express.
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:05 pm

Interesting that NK just added service to LAS and OAK, and now another carrier flying to those very two same destinations gets kicked out. Then again, WN found out the hard way that exploiting loopholes at SNA could come back to bite you in the end... I guess there is precedent for Orange County making life difficult for some of its airline tenants...
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:30 pm

I heard there's some openings at LGB... /s
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ytib
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Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:03 pm

JSX needs a better Government Relations (GR) presence. This should not be a surprise to JSX one bit as it was in the Spring of 2019 the idea of including moving them to the terminal was discussed between the City of Newport Beach and the Board of Supervisors and in the studies they were doing then.

https://www.newportbeachca.gov/governme ... nt-program

Now with the new GA Improvement Program ratified last year leases are coming due and subject for approval at the board meeting next week which have these changes in JSX (and any others) not allowed to operate from the FBO.
318, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 388, 707, 717, 722, 732, 733, 734, 73Q, 735, 73G, 738, 7M8, 739, 752, 753, 742, 74L, 744, 762, 763, 772, 77L, 77W, 789, 142, CN1, CR2, CR7, DC8, DH2, DH8, D8Q, D10, D95, EM2, ER3, ER4, E70, 100, J31, M11, M83, M88, M90, SF3
 
HII
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Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:48 pm

usxguy wrote:
They don't get PFC $$$ nor the same high rent from the terminal.


SNA most definitely gets a fee from JSX based on landings & passenger count.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:05 pm

Why are SNA and LGB so hostile toward the airlines/air carriers that operate from their airports? Maybe it would be better if they just shut those airports down all together.
 
Chemist
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Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:26 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
Why are SNA and LGB so hostile toward the airlines/air carriers that operate from their airports? Maybe it would be better if they just shut those airports down all together.


Agreed. Let all of their constituents fight traffic up to LAX, ONT, and BUR.
 
LAXBUR
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Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:06 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Why are SNA and LGB so hostile toward the airlines/air carriers that operate from their airports? Maybe it would be better if they just shut those airports down all together.


lol. SNA carried nearly 11mil in 2019. Pretty amazing how people on here feel like airlines should be able to do what they want. Plenty of airlines make SNA work. It isn’t a struggling airport like LGB. Not even comparable. So laughable.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:14 am

LAXBUR wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Why are SNA and LGB so hostile toward the airlines/air carriers that operate from their airports? Maybe it would be better if they just shut those airports down all together.


lol. SNA carried nearly 11mil in 2019. Pretty amazing how people on here feel like airlines should be able to do what they want. Plenty of airlines make SNA work. It isn’t a struggling airport like LGB. Not even comparable. So laughable.


Yep, it's hilarious that you will never have any meaningful international service because of an artificial runway constraint.
 
Newark727
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Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:18 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Why are SNA and LGB so hostile toward the airlines/air carriers that operate from their airports? Maybe it would be better if they just shut those airports down all together.


lol. SNA carried nearly 11mil in 2019. Pretty amazing how people on here feel like airlines should be able to do what they want. Plenty of airlines make SNA work. It isn’t a struggling airport like LGB. Not even comparable. So laughable.


Yep, it's hilarious that you will never have any meaningful international service because of an artificial runway constraint.


...So? It's not ideal, but I'll take a nearby airport with decent domestic options over said airport getting bulldozed for more condominiums, which is what has happened to a lot of the smaller airports around here. People have such weirdly prejudicial attitudes about SNA and LGB on this website. Look, you're not going to stop hearing from the NIMBYs until you hit Palmdale, the houses were all built decades ago now.
 
MDGLongBeach
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Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:27 am

Newark727 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:

lol. SNA carried nearly 11mil in 2019. Pretty amazing how people on here feel like airlines should be able to do what they want. Plenty of airlines make SNA work. It isn’t a struggling airport like LGB. Not even comparable. So laughable.


Yep, it's hilarious that you will never have any meaningful international service because of an artificial runway constraint.


...So? It's not ideal, but I'll take a nearby airport with decent domestic options over said airport getting bulldozed for more condominiums, which is what has happened to a lot of the smaller airports around here. People have such weirdly prejudicial attitudes about SNA and LGB on this website. Look, you're not going to stop hearing from the NIMBYs until you hit Palmdale, the houses were all built decades ago now.

Something that needed to be said. Amen.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:02 am

Newark727 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:

lol. SNA carried nearly 11mil in 2019. Pretty amazing how people on here feel like airlines should be able to do what they want. Plenty of airlines make SNA work. It isn’t a struggling airport like LGB. Not even comparable. So laughable.


Yep, it's hilarious that you will never have any meaningful international service because of an artificial runway constraint.


...So? It's not ideal, but I'll take a nearby airport with decent domestic options over said airport getting bulldozed for more condominiums, which is what has happened to a lot of the smaller airports around here. People have such weirdly prejudicial attitudes about SNA and LGB on this website. Look, you're not going to stop hearing from the NIMBYs until you hit Palmdale, the houses were all built decades ago now.


Areyou saying the residents have merit to complain about the airport that they all likely utilize multiple times a year?
 
Newark727
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Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:19 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Areyou saying the residents have merit to complain about the airport that they all likely utilize multiple times a year?


Yes. You can't tell me that after reading this forum, you think by boarding an airplane you've somehow waved your right to gripe about the experience? It sucks that some people get off on complaining about jet noise 24 hours a day, but the airport isn't and shouldn't be run on behalf of the commercial airlines alone. It's a balance of competing interests - messy, but so is life.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:26 am

Communities deciding land use is one of the most basic rights afforded to cities. Be it a movie theater, mall, power plant, park or airport, communities have strong rights to determine how land is used and how their community will look.

For SNA case, the county has been for years working on an update on its general aviation plan which includes modernization of FBO facilities and new lease. Part of this update bars any scheduled operations from occurring at the FBO, directing such activity to the passenger terminal.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
strfyr51
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Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:43 am

bennett123 wrote:
Does SNA really not benefit from these flights?..

Jet Suite Probably doesn't make that much for SNA that they would make special rules for them that they can't make for anybody else. They're an Air carrier and whether they're Part 135, Part 121 supplemental or Part 121 Domestic doesn't matter. What matters is? nobody is above the law. What JSX is asking for? SNA might be hard pressed to justify to the FAA, TSA, and anybody else which puts them in a bad light when it comes to funding, so I'd doubt JSX is really worth the Hassle to Justify. We know what JSX wants but at what cost is it to SNA? or? their airport development funds? Have any of you thought of that?
 
trueblew
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Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:13 pm

MDGLongBeach wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
They operate and market themselves as a schedule service operation, so they need to operate from the terminal, not an FBO.


From how I interpreted the email, the company is fine operating out of the terminal so long that the airport can provide them a dedicated, isolated space so they can still feel the "private jet experience". Though, SNA as we all know doesn't bend over backwards for anyone, and I doubt they'll cater to these demands by JSX. In all honestly, just like everything else, it's all about the $$$ in the end.


Spirit is in, JSX is out. I doubt JSX would want their pax forced to mingle with the former's anyhow.

This is an unfortunate development.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14586
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:16 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
Does SNA really not benefit from these flights?..

Jet Suite Probably doesn't make that much for SNA that they would make special rules for them that they can't make for anybody else. They're an Air carrier and whether they're Part 135, Part 121 supplemental or Part 121 Domestic doesn't matter. What matters is? nobody is above the law. What JSX is asking for? SNA might be hard pressed to justify to the FAA, TSA, and anybody else which puts them in a bad light when it comes to funding, so I'd doubt JSX is really worth the Hassle to Justify. We know what JSX wants but at what cost is it to SNA? or? their airport development funds? Have any of you thought of that?


What exactly is JSX requesting that "SNA might be hard pressed to justify to the FAS [or] TSA?" Their model is totally legal.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
departedflights
Posts: 153
Joined: Fri May 25, 2018 2:50 am

Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:19 pm

SurfandSnow wrote:
Interesting that NK just added service to LAS and OAK, and now another carrier flying to those very two same destinations gets kicked out. Then again, WN found out the hard way that exploiting loopholes at SNA could come back to bite you in the end... I guess there is precedent for Orange County making life difficult for some of its airline tenants...


What was Southwest doing? I'm not asking to challenge you... I am asking because I genuinely would like to know.
The opinions are expressed are my own and do not represent those of anyone else, including my coworkers or my employer.
 
santi319
Posts: 1043
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:24 pm

Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:20 pm

trueblew wrote:
MDGLongBeach wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
They operate and market themselves as a schedule service operation, so they need to operate from the terminal, not an FBO.


From how I interpreted the email, the company is fine operating out of the terminal so long that the airport can provide them a dedicated, isolated space so they can still feel the "private jet experience". Though, SNA as we all know doesn't bend over backwards for anyone, and I doubt they'll cater to these demands by JSX. In all honestly, just like everything else, it's all about the $$$ in the end.


Spirit is in, JSX is out. I doubt JSX would want their pax forced to mingle with the former's anyhow.

This is an unfortunate development.

Elitist much? JSX is a glorified economy plus at best for people that do not have Tsa Precheck. If they were really the “elite” they would sit in the private jets with the big boys...
 
trueblew
Posts: 159
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:16 pm

Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:23 pm

santi319 wrote:
trueblew wrote:
MDGLongBeach wrote:

From how I interpreted the email, the company is fine operating out of the terminal so long that the airport can provide them a dedicated, isolated space so they can still feel the "private jet experience". Though, SNA as we all know doesn't bend over backwards for anyone, and I doubt they'll cater to these demands by JSX. In all honestly, just like everything else, it's all about the $$$ in the end.


Spirit is in, JSX is out. I doubt JSX would want their pax forced to mingle with the former's anyhow.

This is an unfortunate development.

Elitist much? JSX is a glorified economy plus at best for people that do not have Tsa Precheck. If they were really the “elite” they would sit in the private jets with the big boys...


I'm sorry, where did I say JSX pax were elite? If anything was implied it is that the business model/pax-ex is completely opposite.
 
FlyingElvii
Posts: 948
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:15 pm

phxa340 wrote:
SNA I’m sure has their reasons, they want as much air service as possible. I’m sure JSX has violated something or not been paying their bills. To say uncalled for is .... not really looking at this objectively or logically.

Jax is operating as a charter from the FBO, no TSA groping.

And no pass thru fees, passenger tax money, space rental and ramp fees. THAT is what this is really all about. $$$$$
 
FlyingElvii
Posts: 948
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:19 pm

weaglibrium wrote:
usxguy wrote:
They don't get PFC $$$ nor the same high rent from the terminal.


Terminal rent should be generally cost recovery - so the airport is financially indifferent to if there is one carrier or 100 carriers; 1 passenger or 1 million passengers. Granted, the question of equity among carriers operating under a difference scheme still exists. There are ways to still generate offsetting revenue via rates and charges for specific types of operations.

Further, if JSX is enplaning 1% or more of passengers at the airport, they should be collecting PFCs. (FAA limits excluding classes of carriers based on that threshold) Chartered aircraft at most airports, using terminals or FBOs, generally pay PFCs.

If there’s any financial impact here, it’s a problem with the rates and charges scheme, not JSX.

Lol... Do you realize how many municipalities use the airport “profits” to finance the local mugger movers? Only rich people fly, after all. They can afford it.
 
HII
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:13 pm

Re: JSX Getting Kicked Out of SNA, Effective Jan 1 2021

Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:02 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:
phxa340 wrote:
SNA I’m sure has their reasons, they want as much air service as possible. I’m sure JSX has violated something or not been paying their bills. To say uncalled for is .... not really looking at this objectively or logically.

Jax is operating as a charter from the FBO, no TSA groping.

And no pass thru fees, passenger tax money, space rental and ramp fees. THAT is what this is really all about. $$$$$


JSX most definitely pays ramp fees, landing fees, PAX fees, among others. The ONLY money SNA is missing out on with JSX pax is pass through revenue from retail and food, that's it.

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