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FlyingElvii
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Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:37 pm

Incorrect W+B info???

Just a CNBC Headline for now.
Looking for more info.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/s ... -ntp-feeds

UPDATED:
Appears to be a Weight and Balance discrepancy on the 800's. Thisarticle says "75 lbs", but provides no explanation for what "75lbs" they are talking about.
Sounds like a paperwork and POH update required.

" Southwest Airlines (LUV) announced it has temporarily grounded 130 out of 207 Boeing 737-800 aircraft in its fleet, after noticing a discrepancy of the aircraft weight data in 75 lbs. The low-cost carrier alerted that the temporary grounding of the jets could lead to flight delays and cancellations."
https://www.aerotime.aero/gabriele/2591 ... dium=email

UPDATED:
Southwest statement from Reuters:

“out of an abundance of caution, we have temporarily ceased flying the respective aircraft to enter the correct weights of the aircraft in question into the system and reset the program.”
Southwest said the discrepancy in weight data is 75 lbs"

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-sout ... ce=Twitter

Sounds like it will take a bit to update the POH's for 180 planes, plus all of the paperwork required for the Feds. Shouldn't have to be a total reweigh, does it?
 
CALMSP
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Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:49 pm

a difference in 75lbs? wow. As in OEW weight or a galley cart that was miscalculated?
 
texl1649
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Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:03 pm

Sounds pretty silly but whatever. Their -800s are something like 15 years old on average aren’t they?
 
mcdu
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Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:09 pm

This is not the first time WN has had to ground planes for inaccurate W&B data. If they know the discrepancy is ONLY 75lbs then why not correct the data?

I believe this is continued fallout from WN having this issue previously and not correcting it when they should have.

There was a deep dive into WN after the PHL accident that uncovered long term safety concerns. This is one of them.
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:09 pm

Well this should temporarily help the economic dilemma of flying people around on 29 dollar fares and empty middle seats.
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FlyingElvii
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Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:11 pm

CALMSP wrote:
a difference in 75lbs? wow. As in OEW weight or a galley cart that was miscalculated?

Just guessing, but it sounds like an equipment change that wasn't listed in the POH.

Only thing I can think of that is recent would be ADSB?? But that shouldn't be 75lbs.

Seems minor, but in the wrong place, 75lbs can really change the flight characteristics, even on something as large as a 737-800. I imagine that the FAA can be quite anal about it.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:12 pm

Although minor, far less than the margin of error, it likely screws up the paperwork to be consistent and in compliance with FAA regulations. WN has had a number of run ins with the FAA in recent years so likely and literally erring on the side of caution.
 
atrude777
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Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:12 pm

texl1649 wrote:
Sounds pretty silly but whatever. Their -800s are something like 15 years old on average aren’t they?


The first Southwest 737-800 was delivered and went into revenue service around March 2012.

Oldest 737-800 would be 8 years old.

Extremely young.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
Antarius
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Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:28 pm

mcdu wrote:
This is not the first time WN has had to ground planes for inaccurate W&B data. If they know the discrepancy is ONLY 75lbs then why not correct the data?

I believe this is continued fallout from WN having this issue previously and not correcting it when they should have.

There was a deep dive into WN after the PHL accident that uncovered long term safety concerns. This is one of them.


Right - they had W&B issues in 2018 that resulted in a large fine.
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KlimaBXsst
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Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:28 pm

So if Southwest cannot guarantee a middle open seat, can they just not
Flight Interruption Manifest - FIM them over to JetBlue, Delta, or Alaska.

Oh wait I don’t think they FIM do they at Southwest.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
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keesje
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Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:32 pm

I guess they wan't to find how this happened, passed all safety gates/ checks. Is configuration management under control? To avoid a 75lbs tip of an iceberg. Sounds like solid quality management.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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JBo
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Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:34 pm

KlimaBXsst wrote:
So if Southwest cannot guarantee a middle open seat, can they just not
Flight Interruption Manifest - FIM them over to JetBlue, Delta, or Alaska.

Oh wait I don’t think they FIM do they at Southwest.


Last I knew, Southwest doesn't have any interline agreements to be able to FIM anyone to other carriers.
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:23 pm

keesje wrote:
Sounds like solid quality management.


You're being facetious, right? This is a problem across a lot of jets for an undisclosed period of time. What does the FAA think about systematic error in W&B calcs?
 
mcdu
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Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:39 pm

There is a lot of pressure on the FAA right now with the debacle of the MAX certification. WN is right in the middle of that cluster with pressuring Boeing to deliver the airplane with no simulator training required for their pilots. Include the issue where WN hired the chief Boeing test pilot Mark Forkner (quid pro quo anyone?), who was on record saying he had to Jedi mind trick the regulators that MAX MCAS system was not a hazard to safety and WN has put themselves in a bullseye of oversight. Combine the MAX, Forkner and the PHL accident and you have WN exposed to a lot of digging and accountability by the FAA. This Weight and Balance issue has been long lasting and I suspect the FAA has finally run out of patience with WN.

Apparently Forkner decided to take one of the early outs offered by WN after having only worked there for 2 years. That seems a bit odd that he would leave in such a hurry unless there is going to be further fallout from his MAX coverup. Perhaps this was a convenient parting to the ways of someone who is going to give your organization a black eye in the public opinion when the MAX litigation is finished.
 
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airportugal310
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Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:42 pm

There's probably 75lbs of pretzel or peanut dust in every one of those jets alone! :D
“They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.”
 
DoctorVenkman
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Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:43 pm

A single obese passenger walking to the rear lavatories would have more of an impact on the flight characteristics than this. How is it worth grounding all these aircraft over 75lbs?
 
Antarius
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Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:55 pm

DoctorVenkman wrote:
A single obese passenger walking to the rear lavatories would have more of an impact on the flight characteristics than this. How is it worth grounding all these aircraft over 75lbs?


Because there are rules. Sure, 75 may seem small, but where is the line if that is perfectly fine? is 100 ok? 125?

This isn't the first run in WN has had with W&B issues. In addition, the FAA has been asleep at the wheel recently in some cases, so they've likely gotten a swift kick in the backside to go by the book.
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sgbroimp
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Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:59 pm

Given the Max matter, airlines probably think FAA is looking at everything right now, so extra caution all around?
 
swafa
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Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:36 pm

New WiFi provider. 75 lb difference in hardware weight is what we’re being told.
 
strfyr51
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Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:37 pm

could be someone miscalulated something either when the airplanes were weighed with the operating empty weight or used an incorrect plug in during the calculation.
The 75lbs might not mean anything except to the FAA because they may well want to fine WN for every flight each airplane took with Incorrect Data. But? If southwest Voluntarily Disclosed it TO them? Not much they can do except to say "watch yourself" No way they should catch a fine for self disclosure.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:56 pm

DoctorVenkman wrote:
A single obese passenger walking to the rear lavatories would have more of an impact on the flight characteristics than this. How is it worth grounding all these aircraft over 75lbs?


It likely has little to no effect, as you say. However airlines are required to self report and correct discrepancies. They would be in massive trouble if it was discovered later through an audit that they knew and did nothing about it. In aviation it is one thing to screw up and not know about it, it is another to screw up, find out, and hide it or take no action to resolve the situation.
 
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NameOmitted
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Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:53 pm

How much weight do airlines assume I weigh even they book new a seat?
 
nws2002
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Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:09 pm

NameOmitted wrote:
How much weight do airlines assume I weigh even they book new a seat?

In the US: 190 lbs in the summer, 195 lbs in the winter. Those weights include your carry-on bags. These are based on Advisory Circular 120-27E.

However, that is changing soon. with the release of the newest revision to Advisory Circular 120-27F, airlines will have to use CDC weights. See here: https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/med ... 20-27F.pdf
 
hiflyeras
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Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:19 pm

Again? WN plays like a broken record lately. Is anyone in charge in their M&E department? Such a simple thing...hell, they check the weight of the f'ing peanuts in the galleys for god's sake.
 
737MAX7
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Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:24 pm

texl1649 wrote:
Sounds pretty silly but whatever. Their -800s are something like 15 years old on average aren’t they?

Not even close, the oldest is like 8.5 years old.
 
bob75013
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Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:27 pm

"Southwest says half of grounded Boeing 737-800 planes back in service"

So this, obviously, was not a big deal...

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/southwes ... 07915.html
 
TYWoolman
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Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:32 pm

It's not really the "75lbs" that truly matters but the method(s) by which the miscalculation happened so as to prevent it from continuing to happen. 75lbs can snowball into further miscalculations so this finding IMO is rather significant especially when it involves over 100 aircraft on an airline that has pretty much one fleet type.
 
barney captain
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Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:16 am

hiflyeras wrote:
Again? WN plays like a broken record lately. Is anyone in charge in their M&E department? Such a simple thing...hell, they check the weight of the f'ing peanuts in the galleys for god's sake.


If a vendor of equipment incorrectly reports the weight of that equipment, and then later notifies WN, how is it the airlines fault?

Peanuts in the galley? Not for a long time.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
mcdu
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Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:27 am

barney captain wrote:
hiflyeras wrote:
Again? WN plays like a broken record lately. Is anyone in charge in their M&E department? Such a simple thing...hell, they check the weight of the f'ing peanuts in the galleys for god's sake.


If a vendor of equipment incorrectly reports the weight of that equipment, and then later notifies WN, how is it the airlines fault?

Peanuts in the galley? Not for a long time.


The owner operator is responsible for accurate weighing of an airplane. Not a vendor. That is the FAR requirement. Trying to blame the vendors is dubious at best.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:38 am

mcdu wrote:
barney captain wrote:
hiflyeras wrote:
Again? WN plays like a broken record lately. Is anyone in charge in their M&E department? Such a simple thing...hell, they check the weight of the f'ing peanuts in the galleys for god's sake.


If a vendor of equipment incorrectly reports the weight of that equipment, and then later notifies WN, how is it the airlines fault?

Peanuts in the galley? Not for a long time.


The owner operator is responsible for accurate weighing of an airplane. Not a vendor. That is the FAR requirement. Trying to blame the vendors is dubious at best.


But here, the operator discovered the discrepancy, self-reported in an unnecessarily public way (I doubt these groundings led to any effect on operations), and got the paperwork in order. Which of those actions is blameworthy?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:58 am

I was under the impression aircraft weight is also estimated. 75lbs seems to negligible. What are we missing here. Hopefully future landing gears will be equipped to measure weight and feed into the system.
All posts are just opinions.
 
arcticcruiser
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Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:29 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:
CALMSP wrote:
a difference in 75lbs? wow. As in OEW weight or a galley cart that was miscalculated?


Seems minor, but in the wrong place, 75lbs can really change the flight characteristics, even on something as large as a 737-800. I imagine that the FAA can be quite anal about it.


Bollocks. If it does’nt fly 75lbs over, it wont fly 75lbs under either.
dtw2hyd wrote:
I was under the impression aircraft weight is also estimated. 75lbs seems to negligible. What are we missing here. Hopefully future landing gears will be equipped to measure weight and feed into the system.


Aircraft are weighed a few years apart. Otherwise weight changes are calculated. Something on, something off. Along with calculation of a new balance index.
Landing gear weighing systems did not work well in the past. Add complexity and weight. Probably same today. And IIRC there is a +/- 2% margin of error on OEW calculations.
 
hiflyeras
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Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:30 pm

barney captain wrote:
Peanuts in the galley? Not for a long time.


Sadly true...but I know that everything carried onboard (besides the actual weight of every passenger and bag) is calculated and saved in a database. Even down to the galley supplies, carriers, ice, beverages, etc. To install new equipment (seats, safety gear, on-board entertainment servers, etc) you MUST weigh it all and account for it. This might be just 75lbs but shows a major lack of SOP in their M&E department. I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't more to come.
 
GZM1
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Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:32 pm

It is only natural that the weight of an airplane increases by some kilos (pounds in your metric system) each year. And this is due to dampness, dust and other small factors that accumulate over a period of time. I remember reading this somewhere. So, it is not something that the airlines do not know. One wonders...
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FriscoHeavy
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Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:39 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
I was under the impression aircraft weight is also estimated. 75lbs seems to negligible. What are we missing here. Hopefully future landing gears will be equipped to measure weight and feed into the system.



It doesn't seem negligible. It IS negligible.

If you weighed every large plane (say 737 and larger), you'd find the actual weight vs the assumed/calculated weight could be off thousands of pounds. When you use average weights for passengers and bags, that's what happens. I'm not saying it's inherently dangerous because margins are built in, but the plane will never weight exactly what the projected takeoff weight is.

You could have a pilot calculate MTOW at 500,000 lbs (making this up) and the plane actually be 502,000+ lbs due to 'average weights'.

Again, I do not think it's dangerous in the least, but in today's day and age, there is no reason to not have the exact weight of the passenger, carry on bag(s) and checked luggage. Not only would be it be more precise, but may allow you to take on extra cargo or fuel where you didn't think you had the margin.
Whatever
 
Antarius
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Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:44 pm

hiflyeras wrote:
barney captain wrote:
Peanuts in the galley? Not for a long time.


Sadly true...but I know that everything carried onboard (besides the actual weight of every passenger and bag) is calculated and saved in a database. Even down to the galley supplies, carriers, ice, beverages, etc. To install new equipment (seats, safety gear, on-board entertainment servers, etc) you MUST weigh it all and account for it. This might be just 75lbs but shows a major lack of SOP in their M&E department. I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't more to come.


This. And this isn't the first time for WN either.

Its not a "big deal" on its own as it is only 75 lbs, but it is a big deal as it wasn't caught. And the issue is more about the process failure than the weight itself.
Last edited by Antarius on Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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strfyr51
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Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:44 pm

NameOmitted wrote:
How much weight do airlines assume I weigh even they book new a seat?

180 lbs
 
Antarius
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Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:49 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
NameOmitted wrote:
How much weight do airlines assume I weigh even they book new a seat?

180 lbs


Its more than that. See post #23: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1451889&p=22425309#p22423979

Additionally, with AC 120-27F it is now based on CDC data plus 5 lbs for summer clothes and 10lbs for winter clothes for passengers.Which is located here: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/body-measurements.htm
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FriscoHeavy
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Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:58 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
NameOmitted wrote:
How much weight do airlines assume I weigh even they book new a seat?

180 lbs



-190 lbs in the Summer.
-195 lbs in the Winter.
Whatever
 
strfyr51
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Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:26 pm

hiflyeras wrote:
Again? WN plays like a broken record lately. Is anyone in charge in their M&E department? Such a simple thing...hell, they check the weight of the f'ing peanuts in the galleys for god's sake.

Not everything in M&E is done by a mechanic nor an Engineer. there are secretaries and clerks also inputting things and disseminating information as needed.
who is to say that it was missed? It might have been misunderstood and WN caught it in review. You have no Idea about the level of information that passes in a day in Engineering or Quality assurance in a day. But it can happen and probably was caught in a records review when the paperwork is turned in. as it is a critical record and to catch a 75lb error? Somebody HAD to be doing something right. I know guys who work at WN and they're pretty sharp in what they do and mistaked like that aren't taken lightly. Especially not in an airline the size of Southwest.( And for the record? I never worked at nor have I ever flown Southwest!)
 
hiflyeras
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Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:23 pm

The bigger problem is that this is not the first time of the same issue. THAT shows a major lack of processes and safeguards to ensure that the weight and balance of an aircraft is correct. It's a safety issue...and I have to wonder if they're taking the issue seriously if it happens more than once. Yeah, good for them for self disclosing. But WHAT are they doing to fix an ongoing problem? Apparently not enough.
 
mcdu
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Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:30 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
mcdu wrote:
barney captain wrote:

If a vendor of equipment incorrectly reports the weight of that equipment, and then later notifies WN, how is it the airlines fault?

Peanuts in the galley? Not for a long time.


The owner operator is responsible for accurate weighing of an airplane. Not a vendor. That is the FAR requirement. Trying to blame the vendors is dubious at best.


But here, the operator discovered the discrepancy, self-reported in an unnecessarily public way (I doubt these groundings led to any effect on operations), and got the paperwork in order. Which of those actions is blameworthy?


There was no operational impact to the grounding of 130 airplanes? Interesting, does that mean there were no cancels as a result of this? The planes that are stored I would think no count in this 130 since they are in effect grounded and would need to be made airworthy again to then be considered grounded.

Now about WN being the paragon of virtue for taking this heroic step to ground the planes....1. They let 130 planes get away from them in oversight. 2. They have previously been fined for W&B miscalculations so there is a great financial incentive for them to self report and mea culpa the FAA. With losses mounting I don’t think they are in a position to waste cash on even more fines by the FAA for their lack of safety oversight.

WN should have hired some safety and compliance experts instead of Mark Forkner the chief 737 max test pilot. Seems that would have been the better bargain in hindsight.
 
jetblueguy22
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Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:20 pm

I enjoy these threads because it really brings out the people who don’t know how to do a W&B, but like to pretend they’re experts.

If 75 pounds on a 737 fundamentally changed the way it flies, you need to reevaluate how you flight plan.
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
kiowa
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Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:25 pm

mcdu wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
mcdu wrote:

The owner operator is responsible for accurate weighing of an airplane. Not a vendor. That is the FAR requirement. Trying to blame the vendors is dubious at best.


But here, the operator discovered the discrepancy, self-reported in an unnecessarily public way (I doubt these groundings led to any effect on operations), and got the paperwork in order. Which of those actions is blameworthy?


There was no operational impact to the grounding of 130 airplanes? Interesting, does that mean there were no cancels as a result of this? The planes that are stored I would think no count in this 130 since they are in effect grounded and would need to be made airworthy again to then be considered grounded.

Now about WN being the paragon of virtue for taking this heroic step to ground the planes....1. They let 130 planes get away from them in oversight. 2. They have previously been fined for W&B miscalculations so there is a great financial incentive for them to self report and mea culpa the FAA. With losses mounting I don’t think they are in a position to waste cash on even more fines by the FAA for their lack of safety oversight.

WN should have hired some safety and compliance experts instead of Mark Forkner the chief 737 max test pilot. Seems that would have been the better bargain in hindsight.


Maybe Mr Forkner was involved in revealing the weight mistake or was he hired as a line pilot?
 
mhockey31091
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Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:27 pm

Everything that's put on a plane is averaged, average passenger, bags, all that stuff. Airplanes fly every day wayyyy over what they think they are and wayyyy under what they think they are. For instance, if a bag is taken from the back or below the aircraft, it no longer weighs anything and is free to be put in the cabin. Same goes if you gate check your bag, that bag wasn't going to weigh anything until it got the gate check and now it weighs the default amount. Passenger average I believe is way off, there aren't many Americans or possibly people in the world that weigh 190 lbs and have that weight include their carry on bags.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:16 pm

mhockey31091 wrote:
Everything that's put on a plane is averaged, average passenger, bags, all that stuff.
Passenger average I believe is way off, there aren't many Americans or possibly people in the world that weigh 190 lbs and have that weight include their carry on bags.


There are a couple of tables on wikipedia, detailing average weights for countries around the world.

It doesn't paint a flattering picture.

The world average weight (adults, male & female) is 136.68 lbs
Add 10lbs for clothes, and 20lbs for a carry on bag, and we're only at 167 lbs.
So I'm going to disagree with your comment above.

However there are around 25 countries that threaten to exceed the 190 lb air passenger average i.e. 160 lb body weight + 10 lb + 20 lb
Of these, a number can be ignored because they are relatively small in population
e.g. Trinidad & Tobago, Iceland, Solomon Islands, Bahrain, Barbados, Cyprus, Qatar, Malta, Kuwait.

The more significant countries (in terms of population) are Australia, UK, Germany and Argentina.

And then of course we have the real heavyweights, with the US sandwiched between Tonga and Samoa. :rotfl:

So yes, 190 lb for an average American passenger could be a bit... light :duck:



But of course an average is just that, and the "average" for a plane full of passengers will be altered if there are (for instance) more male pax than female. (and few children)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_bod ... _the_world
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
Tack
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:13 pm

Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:38 am

mcdu wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
mcdu wrote:

The owner operator is responsible for accurate weighing of an airplane. Not a vendor. That is the FAR requirement. Trying to blame the vendors is dubious at best.


But here, the operator discovered the discrepancy, self-reported in an unnecessarily public way (I doubt these groundings led to any effect on operations), and got the paperwork in order. Which of those actions is blameworthy?


There was no operational impact to the grounding of 130 airplanes? Interesting, does that mean there were no cancels as a result of this? The planes that are stored I would think no count in this 130 since they are in effect grounded and would need to be made airworthy again to then be considered grounded.

Now about WN being the paragon of virtue for taking this heroic step to ground the planes....1. They let 130 planes get away from them in oversight. 2. They have previously been fined for W&B miscalculations so there is a great financial incentive for them to self report and mea culpa the FAA. With losses mounting I don’t think they are in a position to waste cash on even more fines by the FAA for their lack of safety oversight.

WN should have hired some safety and compliance experts instead of Mark Forkner the chief 737 max test pilot. Seems that would have been the better bargain in hindsight.


Nailed it Mcdu. Those of us who are professionals in the aviation industry understand why this a big issue. I get this is a fan forum. But for me the bottom line is, if you’re a back seat rider and blow it off as WN being forth coming and being a stand up airline, or if you’re in the industry and you’re blowing it off as no big deal, thats your choice and you’re opinion. But safety rules, no matter how petty you believe they are, exist for a reason. So I or my family will not ever fly WN, nor will I miss a chance to educate my friends on their inability to operate safely until I see tangible evidence of a change in their safety culture.
 
User avatar
BawliBooch
Posts: 1489
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:24 am

Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:52 am

Is this another indicator of a systemic problem in Boeing causing issues? Or is it linked to Southwest practices?

It has become fashionable to bash Boeing now after the 737MAX, 787 and 777X issues.

Southwest has had numerous problems with the FAA because of their questionable maintenance regime. Many questions raised in the past about Southwest' maint practices after pressurization problems, engines blowing up and so on! Their very effective PR department has successfully managed to bury these stories on Page 14!

Is this really Boeings fault or it Southwest PR department turning Boeing into the fall guy?
Mr.Kapoor's favorite poodle!
 
barney captain
Posts: 2356
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:57 am

Tack wrote:
mcdu wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

But here, the operator discovered the discrepancy, self-reported in an unnecessarily public way (I doubt these groundings led to any effect on operations), and got the paperwork in order. Which of those actions is blameworthy?


There was no operational impact to the grounding of 130 airplanes? Interesting, does that mean there were no cancels as a result of this? The planes that are stored I would think no count in this 130 since they are in effect grounded and would need to be made airworthy again to then be considered grounded.

Now about WN being the paragon of virtue for taking this heroic step to ground the planes....1. They let 130 planes get away from them in oversight. 2. They have previously been fined for W&B miscalculations so there is a great financial incentive for them to self report and mea culpa the FAA. With losses mounting I don’t think they are in a position to waste cash on even more fines by the FAA for their lack of safety oversight.

WN should have hired some safety and compliance experts instead of Mark Forkner the chief 737 max test pilot. Seems that would have been the better bargain in hindsight.


Nailed it Mcdu. Those of us who are professionals in the aviation industry understand why this a big issue. I get this is a fan forum. But for me the bottom line is, if you’re a back seat rider and blow it off as WN being forth coming and being a stand up airline, or if you’re in the industry and you’re blowing it off as no big deal, thats your choice and you’re opinion. But safety rules, no matter how petty you believe they are, exist for a reason. So I or my family will not ever fly WN, nor will I miss a chance to educate my friends on their inability to operate safely until I see tangible evidence of a change in their safety culture.


Based on your logic I have been risking my life every day at work for the last 28 years. Do you honestly think that the 10,000 frontline "professionals in aviation" who actually strap the jet on for living, would sit ideally by and ignore a systemic lack of safety? Not only is that absurd, it's insulting. You might say we put our money where our mouth is.

Strange, the only time I feel at risk is in the van going to the hotel.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
744SPX
Posts: 254
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:20 pm

Re: Southwest grounds 130 Boeing jets due to "weight data discrepancies"

Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:31 am

Just glad its not a problem with the -700's, which I prefer over the -800 both in ride and looks.

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