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worldranger
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AerSale buys 24 stored B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:03 pm

https://simpleflying.com/aersale-757-acquisition/

AerSale take 24 757s, parts & conversion. Seems too large an order on spec.

Any ideas who they have in mind?
 
MIflyer12
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Re: New order for 24 B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:18 pm

Also, what carrier (or leasing company) was the source of the 24 frames? Twenty-four RR-powered 757s don't appear from nowhere.
 
WN732
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Re: New order for 24 B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:19 pm

worldranger wrote:
https://simpleflying.com/aersale-757-acquisition/

AerSale take 24 757s, parts & conversion. Seems too large an order on spec.

Any ideas who they have in mind?


I'm guessing that they are after AA's that were sent to ROW. Some of them had a good bit of life left in them.
 
eamondzhang
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Re: New order for 24 B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:26 pm

Not sure if it would be SF Airlines but they are actively taking 757s and convert them into freighters as of early 2020.

Michael
 
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klm617
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Re: New order for 24 B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:32 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Also, what carrier (or leasing company) was the source of the 24 frames? Twenty-four RR-powered 757s don't appear from nowhere.



Could they be Delta 757's. The photo shows a Song 757 with Delta jets in the background could be a subtitle hint.
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Re: New order for 24 B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:34 pm

klm617 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Also, what carrier (or leasing company) was the source of the 24 frames? Twenty-four RR-powered 757s don't appear from nowhere.



Could they be Delta 757's. The photo shows a Song 757 with Delta jets in the background could be a subtitle hint.


The same article clearly mentions RR engines, which Delta’s jets don’t have.
I was raised by a cup of coffee.
 
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ClassicLover
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Re: New order for 24 B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:35 pm

klm617 wrote:
Could they be Delta 757's. The photo shows a Song 757 with Delta jets in the background could be a subtitle hint.


Nope, the Delta 757s that are stored are all Pratt & Whitney powered aircraft. The 24 to be converted are all Rolls-Royce powered.

Flight Global speculates it's either American Airlines or United. As American said they'd retire the 757s in 2021 anyway, it is likely them, in my opinion.
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Weatherwatcher1
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Re: New order for 24 B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:50 pm

American’s newest batch of 757s built 1999 And 2002 have plenty of life left in them. My guess is that they’d be headed to China for one of the growing freight airlines there . Late build 757s are still in demand since they can easily fly 10-15 more years as freighters.
 
JFKalumni
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Re: New order for 24 B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:56 pm

I would guess AA. Some 757’s are already permanently grounded from service at AA. I doubt UA would let any 757’s go until the Max 10 or the 321XLR arrive on property. Before Covid, most guys here said the Sub UA PW 757 were done. That was proven wrong when ship 5310, 5468, 5995 and others started arriving with new onboard WiFi systems installed as well as new seating configurations for the Ex CO fleets.
Last edited by JFKalumni on Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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zeke
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Re: New order for 24 B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:58 pm

eamondzhang wrote:
Not sure if it would be SF Airlines but they are actively taking 757s and convert them into freighters as of early 2020.

Michael


Maybe even DHL

hOMSaR wrote:
klm617 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Also, what carrier (or leasing company) was the source of the 24 frames? Twenty-four RR-powered 757s don't appear from nowhere.



Could they be Delta 757's. The photo shows a Song 757 with Delta jets in the background could be a subtitle hint.


The same article clearly mentions RR engines, which Delta’s jets don’t have.


Maybe UA, they have 40 752s parked at the moment, with RR engines.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
krsw757
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Re: New order for 24 B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:59 pm

What about ATN for Amazon ops? They already have a few 757’s for charters. Not sure about the engine compatibility, was just a guess.
 
JFKalumni
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Re: New order for 24 B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:01 pm

zeke wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
Not sure if it would be SF Airlines but they are actively taking 757s and convert them into freighters as of early 2020.

Michael


Maybe even DHL

hOMSaR wrote:
klm617 wrote:


Could they be Delta 757's. The photo shows a Song 757 with Delta jets in the background could be a subtitle hint.


The same article clearly mentions RR engines, which Delta’s jets don’t have.


Maybe UA, they have 40 752s parked at the moment, with RR engines.


Actually there are quite a few 757’s back in the air at UA.
 
FlyingMSY
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Re: New order for 24 B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:41 pm

UA hasn't retired any 752s with RRs save for the write-off at EWR. It is most likely AA, all their 757s have been retired.
 
JFKalumni
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Re: New order for 24 B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:57 pm

Question:

Could Aer Lingus be a possibility? They operated 757’s with a mixture of engines including RB-211’s. With the recent deliveries of A321Neo’s, this would be a great way to offload the aircraft and make money off the deal.
 
SWALUV
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Re: New order for 24 B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:03 pm

Strong chance these are the AA 757s. American retired all of them in May, and they're not coming back into the fleet post COVID.
 
Newark727
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Re: New order for 24 B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:03 pm

JFKalumni wrote:
Question:

Could Aer Lingus be a possibility? They operated 757’s with a mixture of engines including RB-211’s. With the recent deliveries of A321Neo’s, this would be a great way to offload the aircraft and make money off the deal.


IIRC the Aer Lingus 757s were PW and one of them has already been scrapped.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: New order for 24 B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:38 pm

Hmm... the Business Wire press release, then the Flight Global article, then the Simple Flying article noted by Google search four hours after Flight Global. Nobody identified the source of frames. Was there any investigation - beyond the short-form regurgitation of the press release, I mean?

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/ ... Facilities
 
wjcandee
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Re: New order for 24 B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:47 pm

From the press release, it's not clear whether these are from multiple carriers, or whether the press release is saying that multiple carriers store their airplanes generally at GYR.

So here's the context:

This is kind of a big move by AerSale, and it has Charlie McDonald's fingerprints all over it. McDonald is the former President/COO of the company that bought World Airways and North American Airlines, and prior to that the head of Transmeridien Airlines. He's a licensed A&P. AerSale brought him in about 3.5 years ago to head their MRO Services division. AerSale has been on kind of a spree in that area recently, having purchased AeroTurbine, the MRO at GYR, and AvBorne, an MRO at MIA, to add to the MRO that they own at ROW. And they're doing a lot more than just dismantle aircraft for parts now. The AeroTurbine facility has an FAA Class 4 rating, which is unusual for a US MRO. (Class 4 is unlimited maintenance on transport-category aircraft.) So they're working hard to expand that business.

A couple of years ago, AerSale did a deal with Precision for GYR to become another location to do the Precision 757 conversions. (Flightstar at VQQ and two Chinese MROs, including HAECO, are the others.) So I don't know if these conversions will use the Precision STC, or whether they are planning something else. Plainly, this is a Big Splash kind of move, where they showcase their end-to-end integration. They have a lot of airframes on their premises at GYR and ROW, so now they're gonna buy a bunch of them and convert them In House, here in the US, and sell or lease them out. And use their Dismantling and Parts Harvesting experience (which is deep) to get good used parts off of some of the frames that they buy.

So there's the context of all of this. Very interesting. It's also not clear that this is all for a particular customer, but it's a big lift if it's on spec, so there probably is a customer already for at least some of these.

The one thing that doesn't make sense is the idea that this is "because there's so little belly space right now". We're talking 6 months to bring an aircraft through conversion from today, assuming conversion means at least a C-check plus a cargo door. Covid will likely be on its way out by then, and then the purchaser has an asset standing there with a 20-year service life. This is for something more than that. Also, there are at least a few already-converted 757s in decent condition that I know about that are sitting parked at ILN. Not a dispositive observation, but part of the picture. So where's the demand, unless for a customer who already wants them? I also notice they're volunteering to do total lifecycle maintenance on them (i.e. all the service) at GYR as well.
 
catiii
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Re: New order for 24 B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:54 pm

FlyingMSY wrote:
UA hasn't retired any 752s with RRs save for the write-off at EWR. It is most likely AA, all their 757s have been retired.


Speaking of which, has the investigation into that been released?
 
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Spacepope
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Re: New order for 24 B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:01 pm

krsw757 wrote:
What about ATN for Amazon ops? They already have a few 757’s for charters. Not sure about the engine compatibility, was just a guess.


They already have 17 737-800BCFs in service for their low end and the bulk loaded belly on the 752 might be too slow.

I'd put my money on SF.
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worldranger
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Re: New order for 24 B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:21 pm

wjcandee wrote:
From the press release, it's not clear whether these are from multiple carriers, or whether the press release is saying that multiple carriers store their airplanes generally at GYR.

So here's the context:

This is kind of a big move by AerSale, and it has Charlie McDonald's fingerprints all over it. McDonald is the former President/COO of the company that bought World Airways and North American Airlines, and prior to that the head of Transmeridien Airlines. He's a licensed A&P. AerSale brought him in about 3.5 years ago to head their MRO Services division. AerSale has been on kind of a spree in that area recently, having purchased AeroTurbine, the MRO at GYR, and AvBorne, an MRO at MIA, to add to the MRO that they own at ROW. And they're doing a lot more than just dismantle aircraft for parts now. The AeroTurbine facility has an FAA Class 4 rating, which is unusual for a US MRO. (Class 4 is unlimited maintenance on transport-category aircraft.) So they're working hard to expand that business.

A couple of years ago, AerSale did a deal with Precision for GYR to become another location to do the Precision 757 conversions. (Flightstar at VQQ and two Chinese MROs, including HAECO, are the others.) So I don't know if these conversions will use the Precision STC, or whether they are planning something else. Plainly, this is a Big Splash kind of move, where they showcase their end-to-end integration. They have a lot of airframes on their premises at GYR and ROW, so now they're gonna buy a bunch of them and convert them In House, here in the US, and sell or lease them out. And use their Dismantling and Parts Harvesting experience (which is deep) to get good used parts off of some of the frames that they buy.

So there's the context of all of this. Very interesting. It's also not clear that this is all for a particular customer, but it's a big lift if it's on spec, so there probably is a customer already for at least some of these.

The one thing that doesn't make sense is the idea that this is "because there's so little belly space right now". We're talking 6 months to bring an aircraft through conversion from today, assuming conversion means at least a C-check plus a cargo door. Covid will likely be on its way out by then, and then the purchaser has an asset standing there with a 20-year service life. This is for something more than that. Also, there are at least a few already-converted 757s in decent condition that I know about that are sitting parked at ILN. Not a dispositive observation, but part of the picture. So where's the demand, unless for a customer who already wants them? I also notice they're volunteering to do total lifecycle maintenance on them (i.e. all the service) at GYR as well.


Good insight
 
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zeke
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Re: New order for 24 B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:28 pm

SWALUV wrote:
Strong chance these are the AA 757s. American retired all of them in May, and they're not coming back into the fleet post COVID.


I think you are correct, the AerSale press release sates these aircraft are currently stored at Roswell Air Center in New Mexico, AA have 34 752s there.

https://www.aersale.com/media-center/ae ... re-engines
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
TheChickenman
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Re: New order for 24 B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:00 pm

Newark727 wrote:
JFKalumni wrote:
Question:

Could Aer Lingus be a possibility? They operated 757’s with a mixture of engines including RB-211’s. With the recent deliveries of A321Neo’s, this would be a great way to offload the aircraft and make money off the deal.


IIRC the Aer Lingus 757s were PW and one of them has already been scrapped.

They had at least 1 with RR, but their total fleet wasn't more than 5-6, so those frames probably have nothing to do with this transaction anyway.
 
GARUDAROD
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Re: AerSale buys 24 B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sat Sep 19, 2020 5:11 pm

I'm going to guess they are for Amazons Australia venture to be based in BNE. Rumors have been flying around about a startup looking for B757/B767 aircraft. What better than to get similar aircraft from the same source that have a good maintenance history?
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iRISH251
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Re: New order for 24 B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sat Sep 19, 2020 5:15 pm

TheChickenman wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
JFKalumni wrote:
Question:

Could Aer Lingus be a possibility? They operated 757’s with a mixture of engines including RB-211’s. With the recent deliveries of A321Neo’s, this would be a great way to offload the aircraft and make money off the deal.


IIRC the Aer Lingus 757s were PW and one of them has already been scrapped.

They had at least 1 with RR, but their total fleet wasn't more than 5-6, so those frames probably have nothing to do with this transaction anyway.


They had three P&W (ex-Finnair) and one RR, ex-Thomas Cook UK. In any case these were owned by ASL Airlines, not Aer Lingus.
 
wjcandee
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Re: AerSale buys 24 B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sat Sep 19, 2020 5:59 pm

It was early in the morning when I wrote my screed, and I missed this in the press release:

"This package of high quality flight equipment last operated by a top-tier airline customer is yet another example of an opportunity for the AerSale platform to extract meaningful value from mid-life flight equipment."

So there you have it. It's the American aircraft. "top-tier customer" Not customers, plural. And take a look at the photo on their website here: https://www.aersale.com/about/facilities What do they seem to be doing, and on whose former aircraft, of what model?

And I was apparently correct about Aersale trying to highlight their end-to-end capabilities with this transaction. So maybe, just maybe, they're doing it on spec, but if I were a betting man, I would say they have an order for say 20 of them, with the others going to be parted out. They also are getting 16 spare engines, according to the press release, which likely makes them happy.

The other reason I don't think they are doing this on spec is that there's a big push by folks like GECAS to move to the 737-800 platform as a substitute for the 757. It's newer (although the cockpit is waaaaay-older), probably "greener", etc. etc. Holds fewer containers, but they're pushing them hard anyway. So it's a big risk to take an older, out of production platform in a big volume, and try to put them out there into the freight market. I also think that their logic about there being insufficient freighters "for the foreseeable future" is complete BS. It's a 20-year asset, being pushed as a solution for a maybe-one-year need. So there has to be something else afoot. Smacks of the vendor playing cover for a customer that is trying to keep what it's doing a secret for a while.

It will be interesting to see where these end up, whether that was the plan all along, and whose STC they're gonna use to perform the conversion. Precision makes sense (and it's the best one), but we'll see.
 
CX747
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Re: AerSale buys 24 stored B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:13 pm

I'm in agreement that this buy is for 1 customer and not an attempt to float 757Fs out on the market for the highest bidder. My money is on SF but I'd love to be surprised. Jets going to Australia would be interesting.

I have some of the same questions as others on this being a spur of the moment solution for the Virus from... We think of 757s on a.net as old but that is incorrect. For a large portion of the fleet, they are still young or to put in human terms, in there 40s/50s. There is still a ton of life in these 757s so "short term" they are not. Operating in a freighter environment increases their useful life year wise exponentially.

I do wonder, how has the market changed? Previous notions on belly cargo, efficient pax models moving freight is before craziness descended upon the world. Are we expecting passenger service to rebound overnight and everything to go back to how it was? Are industries that used certain freight services going to go back to how they operated pre Virus?

I think there is something to be said that freighter only aircraft could be carving a large notch right now that won't go back to pax aircraft. You could see the continued usage of freighter only aircraft because you dance with the partner that continues operation rain or shine during a pandemic or any weather.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
Bradlee102896
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Re: AerSale buys 24 stored B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:47 pm

Would these possibly be for the likes of a FedEx or UPS? Or do they usually purchase the aircraft themselves and then have someone else convert them.

They each already have 757F but I don’t know the engine types or if that matters.
 
CX747
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Re: AerSale buys 24 stored B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sat Sep 19, 2020 8:00 pm

Bradlee102896 wrote:
Would these possibly be for the likes of a FedEx or UPS? Or do they usually purchase the aircraft themselves and then have someone else convert them.

They each already have 757F but I don’t know the engine types or if that matters.


You are correct that both FEDEX and UPS have 757s. I think the style of procurement would lend this to be another operator. SF out of China uses 757s and has a need for growth. That to me is the best bet. I like the idea of Amazon Australia. One type of aircraft, long legs for the Australian sectors and it is just interesting to me. In addition both UPS and FEDEX are heavily invested in Boeing for growth/replacement but ala 747/767/777 aircraft at the moment.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
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Spacepope
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Re: AerSale buys 24 stored B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sat Sep 19, 2020 8:12 pm

CX747 wrote:
Bradlee102896 wrote:
Would these possibly be for the likes of a FedEx or UPS? Or do they usually purchase the aircraft themselves and then have someone else convert them.

They each already have 757F but I don’t know the engine types or if that matters.


You are correct that both FEDEX and UPS have 757s. I think the style of procurement would lend this to be another operator. SF out of China uses 757s and has a need for growth. That to me is the best bet. I like the idea of Amazon Australia. One type of aircraft, long legs for the Australian sectors and it is just interesting to me. In addition both UPS and FEDEX are heavily invested in Boeing for growth/replacement but ala 747/767/777 aircraft at the moment.


UPS has a 757 fleet that are all factory-delivered freighters, with PW engines.

FX has conversions with both PW and RR powerplants. They are reportedly finished with adding to their sizeable 757 fleet. If anything look for them to add something smaller jet-wise to bridge between the 757 and ATR-72
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wjcandee
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Re: AerSale buys 24 stored B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sat Sep 19, 2020 8:16 pm

Bradlee: Good questions. UPS bought most (all?) of theirs new. Meanwhile, FedEx did a big deal to convert a ton of them years back. I have heard that FedEx doesn't want any more 757s, but that is probably mostly a.net truth as opposed to reality, and never say never. UPS's experience with the 767 is instructive: they bought a bunch new a long time ago, and when they wanted more, they ordered more new ones. However, because of a surge in business that they were handling with some outside contractors, which might or might not have been permitted under their pilot contract, they were required to be making every possible effort to bring aboard additional suitable aircraft. So they contracted with ATSG (CAM) a year ago for 5 leased conversions, which have now almost all been delivered (there's one more to go, probably within a couple of weeks; it has been painted and is in conformity). I do notice that the first 4 leased converted aircraft have all been sent to their European operation, for whatever that's worth. Of course, UPS couldn't order new 757s if they wanted to, but I have never heard them to be so in love with the type that they would take another 20 used converted ones. Also, their brand-new CEO is acting like a brand-new CEO, and trying to show her chops by...well...chopping. She's trying to save money everywhere she can, which usually Turns Out To Be Bad at UPS. She is hollowing-out the knowledgeable management ranks with buyouts, and proudly proclaimed that she had turned down the opportunity to buy more 747-8Fs, which others had been considering. We'll see whether the penny-pinching works for her, or whether she is another typical overconfident corporation-destroyer. But given this environment, I wouldn't put UPS at the top of the list, unless she's trying to say, "Look, I bought a bunch of used stuff cheap!!"

I'm also thinking maybe Walmart. But you didn't hear that from me.
 
Newark727
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Re: AerSale buys 24 stored B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sat Sep 19, 2020 8:23 pm

Spacepope wrote:
UPS has a 757 fleet that are all factory-delivered freighters, with PW engines.


UPS actually has both; they switched from PW to RR for the later ones. Not sure why. None of them are conversions, though.
 
strfyr51
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Re: New order for 24 B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sat Sep 19, 2020 8:31 pm

zeke wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
Not sure if it would be SF Airlines but they are actively taking 757s and convert them into freighters as of early 2020.

Michael


Maybe even DHL

hOMSaR wrote:
klm617 wrote:


Could they be Delta 757's. The photo shows a Song 757 with Delta jets in the background could be a subtitle hint.


The same article clearly mentions RR engines, which Delta’s jets don’t have.


Maybe UA, they have 40 752s parked at the moment, with RR engines.

RR powered 752's? They had to be S-CO plaes as all the S-UA 757's were all powered by the PW2040.
 
strfyr51
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Re: New order for 24 B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sat Sep 19, 2020 8:44 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
zeke wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
Not sure if it would be SF Airlines but they are actively taking 757s and convert them into freighters as of early 2020.

Michael


Maybe even DHL

hOMSaR wrote:

The same article clearly mentions RR engines, which Delta’s jets don’t have.


Maybe UA, they have 40 752s parked at the moment, with RR engines.

RR powered 752's? They had to be S-CO plaes as all the S-UA 757's were all powered by the PW2040.

It appears there are UA 757-224's and -300's with Rolls engines but I think those are much younger planes than the -222's.. so I would think they are still flying as some if not many of the -222's are getting long in the tooth.
 
Tiredofhumanity
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Re: AerSale buys 24 B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:36 pm

wjcandee wrote:
It was early in the morning when I wrote my screed, and I missed this in the press release:

"This package of high quality flight equipment last operated by a top-tier airline customer is yet another example of an opportunity for the AerSale platform to extract meaningful value from mid-life flight equipment."

So there you have it. It's the American aircraft. "top-tier customer" Not customers, plural. And take a look at the photo on their website here: https://www.aersale.com/about/facilities What do they seem to be doing, and on whose former aircraft, of what model?

And I was apparently correct about Aersale trying to highlight their end-to-end capabilities with this transaction. So maybe, just maybe, they're doing it on spec, but if I were a betting man, I would say they have an order for say 20 of them, with the others going to be parted out. They also are getting 16 spare engines, according to the press release, which likely makes them happy.

The other reason I don't think they are doing this on spec is that there's a big push by folks like GECAS to move to the 737-800 platform as a substitute for the 757. It's newer (although the cockpit is waaaaay-older), probably "greener", etc. etc. Holds fewer containers, but they're pushing them hard anyway. So it's a big risk to take an older, out of production platform in a big volume, and try to put them out there into the freight market. I also think that their logic about there being insufficient freighters "for the foreseeable future" is complete BS. It's a 20-year asset, being pushed as a solution for a maybe-one-year need. So there has to be something else afoot. Smacks of the vendor playing cover for a customer that is trying to keep what it's doing a secret for a while.

It will be interesting to see where these end up, whether that was the plan all along, and whose STC they're gonna use to perform the conversion. Precision makes sense (and it's the best one), but we'll see.


Seems like a waste to scrap any 757's from this century with the freight market in its current state, and like you said, the 738 has some drawbacks when comparing the two. A lot of toxic material still ends up in the landfill.

There are plenty of older AA 757's with higher cycles out there - do you think these are the ones getting parted.
 
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zeke
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Re: AerSale buys 24 stored B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:57 pm

CX747 wrote:
I'm in agreement that this buy is for 1 customer and not an attempt to float 757Fs out on the market for the highest bidder. My money is on SF but I'd love to be surprised. Jets going to Australia would be interesting.


I think it’s DHL, if it was SF I would have expected them to be converted at the Precision Aircraft Solutions Chinese facilities either HAECO, located in Xiamen, or AMECO, located in Chengdu. The conversions being done at Precision Aircraft Solutions in Goodyear makes me think it DHL as that’s where DHL had others done.
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eamondzhang
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Re: New order for 24 B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:16 pm

zeke wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
Not sure if it would be SF Airlines but they are actively taking 757s and convert them into freighters as of early 2020.

Michael


Maybe even DHL

zeke wrote:
CX747 wrote:
I'm in agreement that this buy is for 1 customer and not an attempt to float 757Fs out on the market for the highest bidder. My money is on SF but I'd love to be surprised. Jets going to Australia would be interesting.


I think it’s DHL, if it was SF I would have expected them to be converted at the Precision Aircraft Solutions Chinese facilities either HAECO, located in Xiamen, or AMECO, located in Chengdu. The conversions being done at Precision Aircraft Solutions in Goodyear makes me think it DHL as that’s where DHL had others done.

Could be, but remember SF also converts their plane elsewhere - XSP for example, not sure if anyone was converted in Mainland USA though.

Although do agree DHL is just as likely - maybe CTU and XMN wants to convert something else now given number of 757 feedstock is diminishing. I know HAECO is apparently opening up a 737NG BCF line and the space has to come from somewhere.

Michael
 
wjcandee
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Re: AerSale buys 24 stored B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:19 pm

zeke wrote:
CX747 wrote:
I'm in agreement that this buy is for 1 customer and not an attempt to float 757Fs out on the market for the highest bidder. My money is on SF but I'd love to be surprised. Jets going to Australia would be interesting.


I think it’s DHL, if it was SF I would have expected them to be converted at the Precision Aircraft Solutions Chinese facilities either HAECO, located in Xiamen, or AMECO, located in Chengdu. The conversions being done at Precision Aircraft Solutions in Goodyear makes me think it DHL as that’s where DHL had others done.


A teeny nit: Unless they mentioned Precision in the press release, we don't know for sure that AerSale is going to use the Precision STC. I know that AerSale's GYR facility (formerly AeroTurbine) is one of the shops that Precision has contracts with (along with, as you say, Flightstar, HAECO, and AMECO). It certainly makes sense that SF would want the work done in China if it was acquiring the aircraft itself and using Precision as the conversion vendor. But here, it looks like AerSale put the package deal together, acquired the aircraft, and wants to show its capabilities by converting them in-house. Maybe under those circumstances, they would resist having the work done in China. Or maybe, as you say, SF wouldn't want to do the deal unless the work was going to be done in China. You have more expertise than I in how Chinese carriers work.

Bottom line: I agree that the work being done in GYR makes it more-likely that SF is not the customer, but they are still a slender possibility, I think. I don't see why DHL would want the secrecy of the dopey cover story (or SF for that matter), but otherwise they make sense. So...the idea that it could be for Amazon (which likes to announce things when it wants to announce things), either for the US or elsewhere, or, like I say, Walmart, also hold water.
Last edited by wjcandee on Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
ThePointblank
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Re: New order for 24 B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:21 pm

wjcandee wrote:

The one thing that doesn't make sense is the idea that this is "because there's so little belly space right now". We're talking 6 months to bring an aircraft through conversion from today, assuming conversion means at least a C-check plus a cargo door. Covid will likely be on its way out by then, and then the purchaser has an asset standing there with a 20-year service life. This is for something more than that. Also, there are at least a few already-converted 757s in decent condition that I know about that are sitting parked at ILN. Not a dispositive observation, but part of the picture. So where's the demand, unless for a customer who already wants them? I also notice they're volunteering to do total lifecycle maintenance on them (i.e. all the service) at GYR as well.

The message I'm getting from my air freight forwarders is that they aren't expecting the air freight market to reach any sense of normalcy until 2024. Until then, availability is a major ongoing concern.
 
wjcandee
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Re: New order for 24 B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:23 pm

ThePointblank wrote:
wjcandee wrote:

The one thing that doesn't make sense is the idea that this is "because there's so little belly space right now". We're talking 6 months to bring an aircraft through conversion from today, assuming conversion means at least a C-check plus a cargo door. Covid will likely be on its way out by then, and then the purchaser has an asset standing there with a 20-year service life. This is for something more than that. Also, there are at least a few already-converted 757s in decent condition that I know about that are sitting parked at ILN. Not a dispositive observation, but part of the picture. So where's the demand, unless for a customer who already wants them? I also notice they're volunteering to do total lifecycle maintenance on them (i.e. all the service) at GYR as well.

The message I'm getting from my air freight forwarders is that they aren't expecting the air freight market to reach any sense of normalcy until 2024. Until then, availability is a major ongoing concern.


Very interesting. Of course, these were the guys who just a few months ago were saying that after an initial push the need for the extra lift would go away and stuff would just float and drive. And notice that the UPS CEO very proudly said the other day that she had walked away from the opportunity to have a couple more 747-8Fs, even though they love the plane.
 
ThePointblank
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Re: New order for 24 B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:27 pm

wjcandee wrote:
ThePointblank wrote:
wjcandee wrote:

The one thing that doesn't make sense is the idea that this is "because there's so little belly space right now". We're talking 6 months to bring an aircraft through conversion from today, assuming conversion means at least a C-check plus a cargo door. Covid will likely be on its way out by then, and then the purchaser has an asset standing there with a 20-year service life. This is for something more than that. Also, there are at least a few already-converted 757s in decent condition that I know about that are sitting parked at ILN. Not a dispositive observation, but part of the picture. So where's the demand, unless for a customer who already wants them? I also notice they're volunteering to do total lifecycle maintenance on them (i.e. all the service) at GYR as well.

The message I'm getting from my air freight forwarders is that they aren't expecting the air freight market to reach any sense of normalcy until 2024. Until then, availability is a major ongoing concern.


Very interesting. Of course, these were the guys who just a few months ago were saying that after an initial push the need for the extra lift would go away and stuff would just float and drive. And notice that the UPS CEO very proudly said the other day that she had walked away from the opportunity to have a couple more 747-8Fs, even though they love the plane.


This is what was shared with me from one freight forwarder, DB Schenker:

https://www.dbschenker.com/global/meta/ ... nformation

(Sep 16, 2020) - DB Schenker has launched an extensive global charter flight operations program to mitigate the capacity impact for our customers and provide secured capacity on key trade lanes. The charter program has been extended in preparation for the upcoming peak season and required freighter capacity. It is the priority to provide stable connections during the current volatile airfreight market situation and airline flight schedule changes. The charter flights are connecting they key world’s leading economies in the world covering trades between China, USA, Middle East and India. Freighter capacity has been a key supply due to the flight cancellations caused by COVID-19. DB Schenker has setup approximately 10 connections per week between Shanghai, Beijing, Zhengzhou, Hong, Chicago, Atlanta, Dubai, Bombay and Frankfurt. In addition, some part charter flights have been contracted on other trades such as Hongkong to USA as well as Hongkong to Europe.

The peak season in 2020 is expected to lead to a capacity shortage due to the global capacity situation, extensive passenger flight cancellations and airline fleet groundings. Please reach out to your DB Schenker Account Managers to prepare a joint reviewing of your forecast and provide solutions to ensure capacity access on your impacted trades. We are confident to be your supplier of choice during this volatile market situation providing the best possible solutions!

(Sep 1, 2020) - Market demand is increasing especially ex Asia Pacific leading to the expected peak season situation. As capacity remains short, rates are increasing especially out of the major key export countries. Overall, the spike in volume is again reflecting how volatile the market remains and how critical proper supply chain planning has become during COVID-19. Even though various airlines announced passenger flights to return to the market, the impact is very limited. The number of flights only increased incrementally compared to previous months especially international long-haul flights. Many aircrafts remain suspended and currently COVID-19 is considered to impact the airfreight market until at least 2024.

➢ We kindly request for your support on a close collaboration to ensure we plan for a smooth peak season and work hand in hand between your local DB Schenker team and yourself during this critical time to keep supply chains stable. It is our ambition to be your provider of choice for your airfreight transportation and to offer you a capacity situation that enables your business to be successful

Our console charter flight schedule now includes the following flight operations:

➢ Europe – China – Europe: 4 flights per week (B747-400F)
➢ Hongkong – Europe: 2 flights per week (B747-400F)
➢ China – USA: 3 flights per week (B747-400F)
➢ Europe – USA – Europe: 3 flights per week (MD11F and B747-400F)
➢ USA – Australia: 1 flight per week (B777F)
➢ Europe – India – Europe: 1 flight per week (B747-400F)

Europe

(Sep 16, 2020) - All offices remain in full operation with access to terminal handling and ground transportation. All our European hubs deliver import and receive export freight with no backlogs recorded towards the weekend.

Operationally, our linehauls to and from the hubs are running as scheduled. In some areas, our cross-border trucks might experience some minor delays.

Asia Pacific

(Sep 16, 2020) - As of Sep 14, Indonesia authorities have reimposed large scale restrictions effective for two weeks. Logistics and Transport remain classified as essential services and hence are NOT affected particularly. Though resurging COVID-19 infections are evident and tight controls remain in some countries across APAC, our air freight operations remain stable and available to support customer needs. Delays are expected in customs clearance and transportation as lockdowns in some countries affect availability of workforce, including ports, airports, etc. Alternatives to move / transport cargo via other gateways / routes are established. Customers may contact the respective DB Schenker representatives for support or solutions if required.

As APAC countries are opening with the majority allowing manufacturing activities, capacity is expected to remain volatile. We remain vigilant in monitoring the situation, to mitigate events with potential impact to operations.

Having recently launched our Global Flight Operations program, we have established air charter initiatives to provide stability particularly with India and China markets.

➢ We also have put additional charter programs (such as for Intra-Asia SG to IN and others) in place. Do get in touch with your DB Schenker Account Managers for further details.

Middle East/Africa

(Sep 16, 2020) - Overall, the air freight operations in the countries remain uninterrupted even as Oman, Kenya, and South Africa slip into partial curfew. We continue to serve our customers. Our regional and global preferred carriers are seen to gradually increase the frequency of passenger cargo flights.

Situation


Country

No operational restrictions for air cargo business


Qatar, Kenya, Oman, South Africa, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Egypt

Restrictions for operational air cargo business


-

➢ Please contact your DB Schenker Account Manager for more information on additional routes.

Americas

(Sep 16, 2020) - USA – China

➢ Sufficient capacity for USA exports to key destinations in China. Large number inbound scheduled freighter flights and charters continue supporting USA exports providing capacity to meet demands on the return leg.

➢ Rate levels are relatively low but remain above pre-COVID-19 levels.

USA – Asia (excluding China)

➢ Destinations with tight capacity continue to be Australia and India from all USA origins. Korea and Singapore with tight capacity and some backlogs from the USA eastern gateway cities of JFK, ATL and MIA. Market pricing moderating from prior highs, but still well above pre-COVID-19 levels.

➢ Flight operations via the DB Schenker Euro Hub in FRA – BOM and Part Charter capacity from ORD – SYD are supporting these high demand destinations.

USA – Europe

➢ Further charter flights have been launched with the Global Flight Operations Program to provide additional air cargo capacity to Europe. These flights are connecting Atlanta and Chicago with Frankfurt, Germany and other surrounding Central European markets.

➢ Market demand is moderate but growing. Market pricing has stabilized after some downward movement during the summer. As countries continue with ‘reopening’ renewed demand with its upward pricing pressures is anticipated, becoming more acute in the 4th quarter.

➢ DB Schenker maintaining round trip freighter Flight Operations: 3 x week ex ORD & ATL to FRA and back.

USA – Latin Am / Latin Am to Europe and APAC

➢ Intra-Americas: Market demand is moderate with sufficient freighter capacity to most destinations from the USA to Latin Am. Exceptions being USA to Peru, Chile and Bolivia where capacity is tight and hampered by freighter services changing scheduled movements. Market pricing is trending higher North America to Brazil, Peru, Bolivia and Argentina and most Central American countries.

➢ South America exports to other regions: Sufficient capacity but market pricing much higher. Some passenger flights returning, but far from previous frequencies and not providing much additional capacity. The principle carriers for the region have declared chapter 11 bankruptcy (re-organizing). Services continue but with some minor flight scheduling disruptions / delays, which are more pronounced into Peru, Chile and Bolivia as noted.


Basically, tight capacity for the next bit (and higher than normal pricing as a result), with fairly heavy utilization of dedicated cargo aircraft.
 
wjcandee
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Re: AerSale buys 24 stored B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:38 pm

I did a little research on Zeke's (and my) thought that SF would want to use a Chinese MRO:

From 2015: "It has been a good week for Precision Aircraft Solutions. In the last seven days the US-based passenger-to-freighter conversion specialist redelivered four freighter-converted 757-200PCFs, converted at four different MROs, to three different customers. [...] SF Airlines: The two units redelivered to SF were 26278 and 30757 (both ex-Thomas Cook Airlines). 26278 was converted in the US at the Aeroturbine facility in Goodyear (GYR), while conversion of 30757 was performed at Air China Technics’ Chengdu Aircraft Maintenance Base (CTU)." https://cargofacts.com/allposts/logisti ... solutions/

Point being that it's not unprecedented for SF to take a 757 that is converted at GYR. (As previously mentioned, AerSale bought Aeroturbine and now operates that GYR facility, which is a nice shop.)

Counterpoint is that there's a difference between one or two and 20.
 
wjcandee
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Re: AerSale buys 24 stored B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:45 pm

ThePointBlank: That's really fascinating. Some of it intuitive and some not so intuitive. Very, very interesting! Thanks for sharing something with that level of detail!
 
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Spacepope
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Re: AerSale buys 24 stored B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:58 pm

wjcandee wrote:
I did a little research on Zeke's (and my) thought that SF would want to use a Chinese MRO:

From 2015: "It has been a good week for Precision Aircraft Solutions. In the last seven days the US-based passenger-to-freighter conversion specialist redelivered four freighter-converted 757-200PCFs, converted at four different MROs, to three different customers. [...] SF Airlines: The two units redelivered to SF were 26278 and 30757 (both ex-Thomas Cook Airlines). 26278 was converted in the US at the Aeroturbine facility in Goodyear (GYR), while conversion of 30757 was performed at Air China Technics’ Chengdu Aircraft Maintenance Base (CTU)." https://cargofacts.com/allposts/logisti ... solutions/

Point being that it's not unprecedented for SF to take a 757 that is converted at GYR. (As previously mentioned, AerSale bought Aeroturbine and now operates that GYR facility, which is a nice shop.)

Counterpoint is that there's a difference between one or two and 20.


The recent batch of G- registered conversions (Thomas Cook) for SF have all been sent to GYR.
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wjcandee
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Re: AerSale buys 24 stored B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:13 am

Spacepope wrote:
The recent batch of G- registered conversions (Thomas Cook) for SF have all been sent to GYR.


You da MAN! So nice to have somebody on here who knows what's what. So it wouldn't be weird for it to be for SF, then.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: AerSale buys 24 stored B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:27 am

wjcandee wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
The recent batch of G- registered conversions (Thomas Cook) for SF have all been sent to GYR.


You da MAN! So nice to have somebody on here who knows what's what. So it wouldn't be weird for it to be for SF, then.

No smoking gun, but just shows it’s within the realm of possibilities

FYI it’s TUI’s G-OOBC (now N203DP) ay GYR. It’s sister ship BD was at GYR but then ferried east for conversion.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
wjcandee
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Re: AerSale buys 24 stored B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:36 am

Spacepope wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
The recent batch of G- registered conversions (Thomas Cook) for SF have all been sent to GYR.


You da MAN! So nice to have somebody on here who knows what's what. So it wouldn't be weird for it to be for SF, then.

No smoking gun, but just shows it’s within the realm of possibilities

FYI it’s TUI’s G-OOBC (now N203DP) ay GYR. It’s sister ship BD was at GYR but then ferried east for conversion.


Ah. Now I see what you mean by "East". CTU to be specific. Got it. I thought you meant east like to Flightstar at VQQ. So they're doing one at CTU and they're doing one at GYR, I guess.
 
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zeke
Posts: 15146
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Re: AerSale buys 24 stored B757 to be converted to 757F - customer?

Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:44 am

Spacepope wrote:
FYI it’s TUI’s G-OOBC (now N203DP) ay GYR. It’s sister ship BD was at GYR but then ferried east for conversion.


I think N202DP, N236SA, and N237SA have all gone to CTU for conversion ?

Guess Blue Dart Aviation in India could also be an end user.
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