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Ziyulu
Posts: 939
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:35 am

Re: British Airways (BA) introducing new First Class suites with doors.

Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:13 pm

So during turbulence, does the flight attendant open the door to check for seat belts?
 
Kraken27
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:54 pm

Re: British Airways (BA) introducing new First Class suites with doors.

Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:09 pm

peterinlisbon wrote:
What are these First Class passengers getting up to that they need a door for privacy? I do know that many of them are bankers.


Some passengers have no shame. I've been on a Virgin Atlantic 747 in Upper Class (so 14 seats in the nose section). The guy in the seat next to me had [what I hope was his girlfriend] join him from either Premium Economy or Economy. They both managed to lie side by side (just) with the seat in bed mode - the cabin crew had to ask her to leave as they noticed she had her hand down his trousers at one point. No doors on those seats either!
 
airbazar
Posts: 10178
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: British Airways (BA) introducing new First Class suites with doors.

Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:13 am

Antarius wrote:
I really do not understand this "fad" for doors. I guess I find it a solution to a non-existent problem. Sure, without a door someone may catch a glance of my IFE or my hand when I'm reaching out to get something. But big deal?

I share the same opinion. I never liked doors. It makes it look and feel like you're trapped in an office cubicle.
Maybe the type of people who can afford a suite with doors are not the type of people who spend their days in an office cubicle so this is their way to identify themselves with the struggles of the common folk :D
 
Fliplot
Posts: 283
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:23 pm

Re: British Airways (BA) introducing new First Class suites with doors.

Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:24 am

Strange
For an airline that has spent the last 5 years cutting corners and reducing standards, this is a stranfe move. A true class distinction - first and then the rest!
 
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Crosswind
Posts: 2592
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2000 4:34 am

Re: British Airways (BA) introducing new First Class suites with doors.

Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:00 pm

Fliplot wrote:
Strange
For an airline that has spent the last 5 years cutting corners and reducing standards, this is a stranfe move. A true class distinction - first and then the rest!


Reducing standards?

In the last 5 years BA have made the following positive changes....
- New First Cabin (Starting with 787-9)
- Further new First Cabin (Starting with 77W)
- New First tableware and Dining Service
- First Wing at Heathrow T5
- Premium transfer service at Heathrow
- Refurbishment of Gatwick long haul 777s
- Completely new Club World Suite (Starting with A350 and to be rolled out to entire Heathrow fleet by 2023)
- Completely new Club World dining service with Do&Co
- New Club World soft product with White Company Bedding
- Introduction of Wi-Fi and seat power to all long and short haul aircraft
- New Club Europe meal service with Do&Co
- Massive rolling investment programme in airport lounge refurbishment

And in the same time frame the negative changes have been the following...
- Buy On Board on short haul flights economy
- Reduction in size of second meal on shorter long-haul flights in economy (some changes later reversed)
- Densification of the short haul fleet (but only in line with changes made by Lufthansa, Swiss etc)
- Removal of middle table in Club Europe on new deliveries (again Lufthansa is similar)

Most of the negative changes have affected short haul economy. Hardly a company that has not been investing in their premium products in the last 5 years.
 
Ziyulu
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Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:35 am

Re: British Airways (BA) introducing new First Class suites with doors.

Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:12 pm

Have you noticed the negative changes are focused on economy class?
 
Antarius
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Re: British Airways (BA) introducing new First Class suites with doors.

Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:23 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
Have you noticed the negative changes are focused on economy class?


And this is noteworthy? That's how it is everywhere.
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subramak1
Posts: 194
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:21 pm

Re: British Airways (BA) introducing new First Class suites with doors.

Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:09 pm

BrianDromey wrote:
cedarjet wrote:
I think the door thing is bananas. No idea who wants this crap, it’s only a little extra partition anyway, people can still see in, but no one wants to anyway. Ridiculous


I suppose the door can bel left open, there is no requirement for the customer to close it. BA is one of the few airlines offering an F cabin. Having doors in Business Class was driven by the competition, most of whom do not offer F. But First was then without a differentiator, as the lower class at BA had a door, but F did not. The differentiators were, all forward facing, 1-2-1 layout, more space, more storage. These were lost with the introduction of Club Suite. BA had to do something to make the F cabin appear subjectively superior to CW.

Ba's yin-yang CW is actually very private once you are sat down. The seats are arranged in such a way that you don't have a direct eyeline into other seats. The 2 rear facing seats in the centre on the 777 are ideal when travelling as a couple, the window seats are very private too. So the layout isn't perfect and looks strange on a seat map. It is incredibly space efficient, provides a large bed without a cubby-hole for ones feet. Competitors, over time, surpassed it in terms of storage and the idea that the cabin was 2-4-2. In reality it is 1-2-1, in the same way reverse herringbone is. By re-numbering the seat rows they could have gotten around that perception, but again this was a differentiator between CW and F.


I always felt the window seats in CW were very claustrophobic but that is just me. I was fortunate enought never to travel in the middle seat of CW. The only CW seats I liked were aisle ones. In comparison AA's J class offering in their 77W excellent
 
by738
Posts: 3113
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2000 7:59 am

Re: British Airways (BA) introducing new First Class suites with doors.

Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:04 pm

In the last 5 years BA have made the following positive changes....
Lets have a look...
- New First Cabin (Starting with 787-9)
- Further new First Cabin (Starting with 77W)
Not exactly ‘New’ rather an easy evolution of preexisting First
- New First tableware and Dining Service
- First Wing at Heathrow T5
- Premium transfer service at Heathrow
On a crammed bus? Of occasional benefit and no more
- Refurbishment of Gatwick long haul 777s
Code for Densification
- Completely new Club World Suite (Starting with A350 and to be rolled out to entire Heathrow fleet by 2023)
- Completely new Club World dining service with Do&Co
- New Club World soft product with White Company Bedding
Rollover planned replacement of old stock. Improved cost (saving) contract and lighter.
- Introduction of Wi-Fi and seat power to all long and short haul aircraft
Erratic, slow and( outwith F) to be paid for. Not all aircraft have it operating and not really promoted by staff.
- New Club Europe meal service with Do&Co
I’ve yet to be impressed.
- Massive rolling investment programme in airport lounge refurbishment
Rolling and necessary as refreshment badly needed anyway. Lounges closing and Third party takeover for some even high profile route lounges.
 
jonas12345
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:34 am

Re: British Airways (BA) introducing new First Class suites with doors.

Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:16 pm

by738 wrote:
In the last 5 years BA have made the following positive changes....
Lets have a look...
- New First Cabin (Starting with 787-9)
- Further new First Cabin (Starting with 77W)
Not exactly ‘New’ rather an easy evolution of preexisting First
- New First tableware and Dining Service
- First Wing at Heathrow T5
- Premium transfer service at Heathrow
On a crammed bus? Of occasional benefit and no more
- Refurbishment of Gatwick long haul 777s
Code for Densification
- Completely new Club World Suite (Starting with A350 and to be rolled out to entire Heathrow fleet by 2023)
- Completely new Club World dining service with Do&Co
- New Club World soft product with White Company Bedding
Rollover planned replacement of old stock. Improved cost (saving) contract and lighter.
- Introduction of Wi-Fi and seat power to all long and short haul aircraft
Erratic, slow and( outwith F) to be paid for. Not all aircraft have it operating and not really promoted by staff.
- New Club Europe meal service with Do&Co
I’ve yet to be impressed.
- Massive rolling investment programme in airport lounge refurbishment
Rolling and necessary as refreshment badly needed anyway. Lounges closing and Third party takeover for some even high profile route lounges.


I guess some people are always glass half empty, never happy - I just hope I never have to sit next to them on a plane!
 
LUKAS10
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:54 pm

Re: British Airways (BA) introducing new First Class suites with doors.

Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:02 pm

British Airways has poured more than 5bln GBP in the customer service improvement and I have to admit it's noticeable and it makes BA one of the most attractive airlines for travellers in Europe. People complaining about M&S service in economy class didn't notice that since the introduction of Buy-on-board BA's European fares have been decreasing (at least on the routes I fly). It's also a matter of perspective; I think it's much better to pay less for flight ticket + having a wide choice of meals/snacks/beverages, than paying more and getting a mediocre muffin.
 
LUKAS10
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:54 pm

Re: British Airways (BA) introducing new First Class suites with doors.

Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:05 pm

Fliplot wrote:
Strange
For an airline that has spent the last 5 years cutting corners and reducing standards, this is a stranfe move. A true class distinction - first and then the rest!


British Airways has poured more than 5bln GBP in the customer service improvement and I have to admit it's noticeable and it makes BA one of the most attractive airlines for travellers in Europe. People complaining about M&S service in economy class didn't notice that since the introduction of Buy-on-board BA's European fares have been decreasing (at least on the routes I fly). It's also a matter of perspective; I think it's much better to pay less for flight ticket + having a wide choice of meals/snacks/beverages, than paying more and getting a mediocre muffin.
 
User avatar
Crosswind
Posts: 2592
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2000 4:34 am

Re: British Airways (BA) introducing new First Class suites with doors.

Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:26 pm

by738 wrote:
- New First Cabin (Starting with 787-9)
- Further new First Cabin (Starting with 77W)
Not exactly ‘New’ rather an easy evolution of preexisting First

Yes. But it’s still a new seat. And the 787 seat is substantially different from that previously.

by738 wrote:
- Premium transfer service at Heathrow
On a crammed bus? Of occasional benefit and no more

No. They are private cars for premium passengers with tight connections.
https://mediacentre.britishairways.com/pressrelease/details/86/2017-228/8762
https://www.businesstraveller.com/business-travel/2019/01/10/british-airways-adds-london-taxi-transfers-at-heathrow/

by738 wrote:
- Refurbishment of Gatwick long haul 777s
Code for Densification

Well they were one of the last airlines in the world to still have 9 abreast in economy on the 777. But the refurbishment also included the same premium economy seats as the A350, new IFE system as found on the A350, mood lighting, Wi-fi and complete refurbishment of all other touch points. Hardly a low cost option if you just want to do densification.

by738 wrote:
- New Club World soft product with White Company Bedding
Rollover planned replacement of old stock. Improved cost (saving) contract and lighter.

Airlines replace blankets and pillows all the time, so there is no wholesale replacement of old stock. As for lighter, no way, the new White Company bedding bags weigh a tonne with the extra blankets. The old bedding was one pillow and one blanket per person.

by738 wrote:
- Introduction of Wi-Fi and seat power to all long and short haul aircraft.
Erratic, slow and( outwith F) to be paid for. Not all aircraft have it operating and not really promoted by staff.

I’ve yet to encounter a perfect aircraft Wi-fi system.

by738 wrote:
- New Club Europe meal service with Do&Co
I’ve yet to be impressed.

Impressed or not. It’s objectively better than the previous offering.

by738 wrote:
- Massive rolling investment programme in airport lounge refurbishment
Rolling and necessary as refreshment badly needed anyway. Lounges closing and Third party takeover for some even high profile route lounges.

But again the low cost option would have been rolling repairs, rather than the compete redesign that’s occurred in many of the lounges such as Boston, Gevena, Milan, Johannesburg, JFK, Rome and San Fransisco.
 
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einsteinboricua
Posts: 8580
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: British Airways (BA) introducing new First Class suites with doors.

Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:19 pm

The closest thing I've flown that remote resembles an ultra premium first class suite is B6's Mint cabin, on one of their actual suite seats (they have 2-2, 1-1, 2-2, 1-1, and 2-2 arrangement so while they sell all 16 seats as Mint, 8 are more like business class seats while the remaining 4 are true suites).

For all those insisting that you don't get the need for a door...you won't understand it until you fly in a suite. Yes, people walking up and down can look into the cabin, but it's expected that respect for privacy prevails (and in a much bigger plane like a 777, odds are the only people you'll find walking past your suite are either FAs or people from the same cabin going to the lavatory, rather than people from coach going to use the forward lavatory). Given that the bed settles lower, it's less light reaching you and blocked noise from foot traffic which allows you to properly catch some decent sleep, as opposed to reclining back with some screens still on.

And for people like me, who are introverts and don't have a need to socialize with everyone, having my own cubicle with no one else by my side and completely blocked away from people feels right.

So, while some of you may not understand the appeal of a door for a suite, many more do and are willing to pay to fly in what THEY consider comfortable.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
kennyomg
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:28 pm

Re: British Airways (BA) introducing new First Class suites with doors.

Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:50 pm

As someone who has flown some suites I have mixed feelings. It is very true I think that middle seats are pure ghetto cubicles, not sure if I'd ever chose to fly one. I also find the low partitioning somewhat less than ideal (I'm 6'6"). I found Asiana's F doors quite satisfactory in a window seat (when I was not bothered by otherwise lovely but to my taste the overly proactive FAs checking - ie trying to peek over the door - every 15 minutes) while at the same time ANA's low doors were like a "well, ok, everything else is great about this flight!" Etihad's Apartments is somewhat unique in that your space is very short (for an F seat) but extremely wide. I can see how that would rub some clientele the wrong way, I personally enjoy solid beds a lot more than to fret about a wall in my face (more like 1.5m from it but sometimes is feels like hyperboles are a must in this segment).

QSuites deserves a honorable mention here: while very well thought out and executed I would like to personally strangle the designer who came up with the fixed headrest that protrude under my shoulders in bed mode. Otherwise, at least window seats, have an illusion of tons of space and are absolutely great.

Having said that my go to F class would still be Cathay or Lufthansa (and old Swiss). In my opinion they, especially LH, get the openness/privacy percentages right that you don't feel like in a coffin (obligatory mention: Thai's staggered Business, ugh) yet provide ample privacy. I really wish we could go back to the interim LH Fprodcut on the 744 with recliners and a separate bed. It was completely open yet very private - admittedly at a cost of wasting an absolutely staggering amt of real estate.
 
Antarius
Posts: 2531
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: British Airways (BA) introducing new First Class suites with doors.

Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:51 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
For all those insisting that you don't get the need for a door...you won't understand it until you fly in a suite.


Except several of us have flown in suites with doors countless times and still share a different opinion.

If the illusion of privacy is what appeals to you, then sure. But objectively, it is exactly that, an illusion.
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Rajahdhani
Posts: 610
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Re: British Airways (BA) introducing new First Class suites with doors.

Sat Sep 26, 2020 6:45 pm

Many of you have flown, do fly (present issues understood), and maybe will fly in future - in these cabins.

I have to ask - and I get that it is rather personal (and truly could be asked of any other carrier with a similar product/business model) - but what is your business calculation in using BA's premium products, and how will that change going forward? When do we expect to see the amount of these travelers return (as was previously expected and costed, when this project was envisioned, and for the future it was envisioned for - falling against the realties of where we are and where will be be in the same timeline)? Will private aviation, increased use of mobile technologies, and greater LCC intrusion - end the need/use of these cabins? Or, as the market recovers and roars into the future - will there be a place, or a renewed demand in these services?

I admit that the few can do long distances, at better costs, than the larger jets used by said carrier. I get how and where BA can and does make a profit. That said, as we recover, there is a chance to rebuild. I wonder, even within BA, what the prognosis is for the recovery and the need for, premium cabins - as even during the recovery - we have new tools, and new competitors, an a public facing new realities - already. I am not suggesting doom and gloom. BA's prowess and future success will be the deployment of these premium resources and services. I wonder how realities affect that, in the medium and long term - and how BA responds, or plans to. It's a multi-billion dollar question.
 
APYu
Posts: 516
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:23 pm

Re: British Airways (BA) introducing new First Class suites with doors.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:53 am

Crosswind wrote:


by738 wrote:
- Premium transfer service at Heathrow
On a crammed bus? Of occasional benefit and no more

No. They are private cars for premium passengers with tight connections.
https://mediacentre.britishairways.com/pressrelease/details/86/2017-228/8762
https://www.businesstraveller.com/business-travel/2019/01/10/british-airways-adds-london-taxi-transfers-at-heathrow/
.


There is a really small number of these. Most premium passengers on tight connections still need to make them on foot.
We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
 
by738
Posts: 3113
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2000 7:59 am

Re: British Airways (BA) introducing new First Class suites with doors.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:31 am

APYu wrote:
Crosswind wrote:


by738 wrote:
- Premium transfer service at Heathrow
On a crammed bus? Of occasional benefit and no more

No. They are private cars for premium passengers with tight connections.
https://mediacentre.britishairways.com/pressrelease/details/86/2017-228/8762
https://www.businesstraveller.com/business-travel/2019/01/10/british-airways-adds-london-taxi-transfers-at-heathrow/
.


There is a really small number of these. Most premium passengers on tight connections still need to make them on foot.

Exactly. My last ‘tight connection’ was on a bus and any car transfer is to suit the airline to avoid the hassles and costs of a rebook.
 
brilondon
Posts: 3164
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:56 am

Re: British Airways (BA) introducing new First Class suites with doors.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:21 am

SCQ83 wrote:
I reckon this has to do with COVID.

Suites with doors where a thing for Asian or Middle Eastern carriers because those societies usually value privacy more.

Now with COVID, Western societies are also becoming more isolated (e.g. social distancing) so it makes sense that people wants more privacy and further away from strangers.


You meant physical distancing, right?
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2953
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: British Airways (BA) introducing new First Class suites with doors.

Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:49 am

 
Ishrion
Posts: 2953
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: British Airways (BA) introducing new First Class suites with doors.

Fri Oct 09, 2020 3:48 pm

Official pictures from British Airways: https://www.businesstraveller.com/busin ... ding-door/

Image
 
airzona11
Posts: 1775
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:44 am

Re: British Airways (BA) introducing new First Class suites with doors.

Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:07 pm

Looks great! Love BAs First Class styling and colors.

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