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lightsaber
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:54 am

TonyClifton wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
And Delta won’t be ordering any planes, they are in negotiations with Airbus to defer and delay 40 planes

I wouldn’t be shocked if part of the negotiation means Delta takes some other customers slack down the line. Airbus plays nice with deferrals and no significant penalties, in turn, Delta steps up on someone else’s cancellations or deferrals. Would be a win-win.

If Delta orders anything more, it would be far in the future and for brutal terms favorable to Delta. No one is ordering now and both Airbus and Boeing need an order the size Delta will order.

I happen to agree that Delta will replace the planes, but this is a competition between for narrowbodies:
1. Used A319/A320CEOs
2. New A320NEOs
3. Used 737-800s
4. New MAXes (I cannot predict between the -8/-9/-10, but Delta can decide)
5. New A220s
6. And because Delta buys in such large quantities, they could even include the E2-195

50 seaters are on the way out, IMHO, so no CR2 replacement required.

For widebodies, Delta will negotiate. Because they need so many, the A350, A330NEO, and 787 (788, 789, and 787-10) will all be in play.

I make no assumptions. I've never seen such a buyers market in the industry. There are 2,000 available now new or lease returns in addition to the new build aircraft available in 2021. We have another thread to discuss the manufacturers playing chicken with high production rates (think about it, the reduced rates of today are high by historical standards):
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1451221

Lightsaber
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TYWoolman
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:55 am

Getting the house in order for strategic opportunities in the future is how I see it. With no real one-for-one replacements as of yet, Delta is really counting on a slow recovery.
 
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NWAESC
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:06 am

Everything we've been told internally says to bank on a slow road back.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:24 am

Yep... I mean to put things in perspective about it being a buyers market, DL just removed 10 73Gs that are less than 12 years old. A fleet type that has some degree of commonality the 738 and 739.

7 months ago airlines around the world couldnt find enough used NGs out there.
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:25 am

panamair wrote:
jayunited wrote:
madpropsyo wrote:
I'm curious what this means for the future of the SEA TPAC operation. Half the stated reason for launching it was that most of the Asian markets they wanted to serve were within the range of the smaller 763 from SEA. Putting the 339 into SEA will surely change the calculus on some of these routes.

Perhaps they'll turn over most of the SEA TPAC ops to KE and retrench their international ops to stronger hubs + LAX with the longer range and higher seat count of the 339.



Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't Delta already removed most if not all 763s from their SEA TPAC operations and (pre-COVID) replaced those 763s with A339NEO, A359s, and I think A333s?


That’s correct. SEA-HND/ICN/PVG have all been switched to the A339 (well PVG is an A359 now because of the limited China frequencies etc). Pre-COVID I believe they were on the cusp of switching SEA-PEK/PKX to the A339 as well. The only 763 was SEA-KIX which probably will be gone for a while under current circumstances.

SEA-PVG is A339 - in fact their first A339 route. N401DZ and N402DX swapped between each other every two days. Think you have confused between LAX, SEA & DTW.

They did plan SEA-PKX/PEK A339 and believe there might actually be a flight or two went on before the whole pandemic blows things out of the window.

Michael
 
Boof02671
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:31 am

Wonder what they will run JFK-LAX.
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:31 am

DeltaMD95 wrote:
The 717 2025 retirement puts more stock into the prediction that the MD-11F will outlast the 717 as the final operational Long Beach designed, Douglas airliner.

As long as HA and QF needs 717 it'll stay on for the foreseable future, and I don't believe either will purchase any new types to replace these birds anytime soon.

Michae
 
TonyClifton
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:34 am

lightsaber wrote:
TonyClifton wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
And Delta won’t be ordering any planes, they are in negotiations with Airbus to defer and delay 40 planes

I wouldn’t be shocked if part of the negotiation means Delta takes some other customers slack down the line. Airbus plays nice with deferrals and no significant penalties, in turn, Delta steps up on someone else’s cancellations or deferrals. Would be a win-win.

If Delta orders anything more, it would be far in the future and for brutal terms favorable to Delta. No one is ordering now and both Airbus and Boeing need an order the size Delta will order.

I happen to agree that Delta will replace the planes, but this is a competition between for narrowbodies:
1. Used A319/A320CEOs
2. New A320NEOs
3. Used 737-800s
4. New MAXes (I cannot predict between the -8/-9/-10, but Delta can decide)
5. New A220s
6. And because Delta buys in such large quantities, they could even include the E2-195

50 seaters are on the way out, IMHO, so no CR2 replacement required.

For widebodies, Delta will negotiate. Because they need so many, the A350, A330NEO, and 787 (788, 789, and 787-10) will all be in play.

I make no assumptions. I've never seen such a buyers market in the industry. There are 2,000 available now new or lease returns in addition to the new build aircraft available in 2021. We have another thread to discuss the manufacturers playing chicken with high production rates (think about it, the reduced rates of today are high by historical standards):
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1451221

Lightsaber

I don’t disagree, new orders are a long ways away. There’s 100+ A321neo, over 50 A220 still to go. Something A320neo/738/225 will be needed mid decade and beyond.
A220 will drop into the longest RJ routes as it has done, freeing up the CR9 for former 200 routes. Not doing routes like JFK-DFW, DTW-AUS on RJs frees up plenty of block time to cover whatever 50 seat routes are to be kept around. 2x76 will match 3x50 routes by capacity, and despite the freq reductions, two class jets with WiFi on every single ticket will be a selling point.
I could see 787s to replace some of the 763 slack, and the oldest A330s as well as the 764 later in the decade.

Boof02671 wrote:
Wonder what they will run JFK-LAX.

I’ve seen the A330, 764 on it, so who knows by 2025.
Last edited by TonyClifton on Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
FlyingViking
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:35 am

Antaras wrote:
So...everyone is guessing that Boeing is scooping the chance and offering a nice 788 deal to DL???

Well I am predicting that DL will acquire around 20x B788 to replace the old B763 and A332


Yup I'd think 25 firm + 25 options of 788 with conversion to 789 just in case of course.

Delta's streamlined fleet by 2030 could look like A350, A330-300/800?/900, B787-8/9?/10?, A320#, B737#, A220#. Six main fleet types down from what 11 in 2019. (B777, B764, B763/B757, MD-80/90, B717 will all be gone by then with the B764, I assume, the last fleet to be retired).
 
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Antaras
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:53 am

FlyingViking wrote:
Antaras wrote:
So...everyone is guessing that Boeing is scooping the chance and offering a nice 788 deal to DL???

Well I am predicting that DL will acquire around 20x B788 to replace the old B763 and A332


Yup I'd think 25 firm + 25 options of 788 with conversion to 789 just in case of course.

Delta's streamlined fleet by 2030 could look like A350, A330-300/800?/900, B787-8/9?/10?, A320#, B737#, A220#. Six main fleet types down from what 11 in 2019. (B777, B764, B763/B757, MD-80/90, B717 will all be gone by then with the B764, I assume, the last fleet to be retired).


Not the 787-9 but I think that DL will prefer the 787-10 for its mid-haul operations (US domestic, EU routes).
The 789 would be quite non-sensical in DL fleet as DL has fallen in love with the "good-enough" A339neos, which are being used for lots of key long-haul routes.
If you disagree with my statement, assume that it was just a joke :duck:
 
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Antaras
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:03 am

Meanwhile, DL has been talking with Airbus to defer the delivery of 40 airframes: https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... ies-report

Delta Air Lines (DL, Atlanta Hartsfield Jackson) is reportedly in talks with Airbus to defer the delivery of 40 aircraft, initially due in 2020, "beyond" year-end, sources told Bloomberg newswire.

The airline's deliveries plan for 2020, as reported at the end of 2019, included a total of 72 aircraft - seventeen A220-100s, six A220-300s, thirty-one A321-200s (ceo), one A321neo, seven A330-900s, four A350-900s, and six CRJ900s. Of these, only twelve have so far been delivered, namely three A220-100s, six A321-200s, one A330-900, and two A350-900s.
If you disagree with my statement, assume that it was just a joke :duck:
 
BNAMealer
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:24 am

Antaras wrote:
FlyingViking wrote:
Antaras wrote:
So...everyone is guessing that Boeing is scooping the chance and offering a nice 788 deal to DL???

Well I am predicting that DL will acquire around 20x B788 to replace the old B763 and A332


Yup I'd think 25 firm + 25 options of 788 with conversion to 789 just in case of course.

Delta's streamlined fleet by 2030 could look like A350, A330-300/800?/900, B787-8/9?/10?, A320#, B737#, A220#. Six main fleet types down from what 11 in 2019. (B777, B764, B763/B757, MD-80/90, B717 will all be gone by then with the B764, I assume, the last fleet to be retired).


Not the 787-9 but I think that DL will prefer the 787-10 for its mid-haul operations (US domestic, EU routes).
The 789 would be quite non-sensical in DL fleet as DL has fallen in love with the "good-enough" A339neos, which are being used for lots of key long-haul routes.


I don’t think the 787-10 would be ordered as long as they have their A339 orders. Too much plane. The only 787 that makes sense in DL’s fleet is the 788.
 
panamair
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:43 am

eamondzhang wrote:
panamair wrote:
jayunited wrote:


Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't Delta already removed most if not all 763s from their SEA TPAC operations and (pre-COVID) replaced those 763s with A339NEO, A359s, and I think A333s?


That’s correct. SEA-HND/ICN/PVG have all been switched to the A339 (well PVG is an A359 now because of the limited China frequencies etc). Pre-COVID I believe they were on the cusp of switching SEA-PEK/PKX to the A339 as well. The only 763 was SEA-KIX which probably will be gone for a while under current circumstances.

SEA-PVG is A339 - in fact their first A339 route. N401DZ and N402DX swapped between each other every two days. Think you have confused between LAX, SEA & DTW.

They did plan SEA-PKX/PEK A339 and believe there might actually be a flight or two went on before the whole pandemic blows things out of the window.

Michael


Yes, SEA-PVG is normally an A339 but currently DL is flying an A359 to PVG from both SEA and DTW via ICN due to the limited frequencies China is allowing due to the Covid situation.
 
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Antaras
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:43 am

BNAMealer wrote:
I don’t think the 787-10 would be ordered as long as they have their A339 orders. Too much plane. The only 787 that makes sense in DL’s fleet is the 788.

Agree. The 788 is the only sensical 787 in DL's fleet.

And of course, DL will need the 788 soon, unless DL wants to give up with the 230-seat market. The 200-230 seats 763 will be yeeted in the next few weeks, meanwhile, the 234-seat A332 are too old (14 to more than 16 years old) and should be (or must be replaced) in the next 5-10 years.

Wait, seems like no one mentioned the A338. However, the low popularity and low efficiency (over-powered) disadvantages of the A338 will make it not attractive in DL's eyes. Seems like the Trent-powered 787-8 makes the most sense here :roll:
If you disagree with my statement, assume that it was just a joke :duck:
 
Tiredofhumanity
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:08 am

LCDFlight wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
klm617 wrote:
My question is what current aircraft in production can replace the 767. This probably means an end to secondary city TATL flying like IND, MCO, TPA and maybe RDU as anything bigger than a 767 is just to big. What does this mean for routes like ATL-BRU, ZRH and DUS. Does this mean more double connects over CDG and AMS in the Delta network.


The 321LR. It's not quite as big but I remember AA saying that the 321NEO carried all of the F, all of the J and 70% of the Y of a 762 while burning ½ the fuel. So with a 321LR, DL could continue to serve these routes. They'd need to decide whether to operate one or two flights per day, but this would be a logical successor. I'm sure the 763 wasn't a perfect fit for any of these routes, but it was close enough, so the A321LR will also not be a perfect fit, but close enough.

I love the 767, but the writing is on the wall. I hope that Boeing does come up with a 2-3-2 cabin medium-haul aircraft with an elliptical cross-section. There is a market for such an aircraft. But with Boeing's bungling of the 787 and MAX, I'm not sure that they will have the resources to get to work on a new type in time for DL.


Basically this is right on. 767 was a minimum trip cost bird for many airlines. It was useful. But anything under 4000 miles, the A321 will do at better unit cost than any 767. Anything over 4000 or so miles, A330 will become the minimum trip cost airplane. Time is marching on. The B767 is ancient technology now. 40 years old. Even the 777 is facing headwinds. That's how it works.


If that's the "way it works", the 737 would have been discontinued halfway into the NG, and the A320 would have a modern (non-1987) wing by now. I think calling the 767 "ancient technology" is down right ignorant when one considers a 30 year old A320 CEO or a 777-200ER from 1996 "fuel efficient".

The A330 you mentioned is also 1992 tech.
 
IPFreely
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:19 am

Antaras wrote:
So...everyone is guessing that Boeing is scooping the chance and offering a nice 788 deal to DL???

Well I am predicting that DL will acquire around 20x B788 to replace the old B763 and A332


Why? DL should be fine with their A333's and A350's.
 
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Antaras
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:32 am

IPFreely wrote:
Antaras wrote:
So...everyone is guessing that Boeing is scooping the chance and offering a nice 788 deal to DL???

Well I am predicting that DL will acquire around 20x B788 to replace the old B763 and A332


Why? DL should be fine with their A333's and A350's.


Because the 293-seat A333, 281-seat A339, and 306-seat A359 have never been a direct replacement for the 230-seat A332 and B763.
Unless there is a big shift in strategy ("upsize"), and the "upsize-shift" makes no sense amid this pandemic.

As I wrote:
Antaras wrote:
And of course, DL will need the 788 soon, unless DL wants to give up with the 230-seat market. The 200-230 seats 763 will be yeeted in the next few weeks, meanwhile, the 234-seat A332 are too old (14 to more than 16 years old) and should be (or must be replaced) in the next 5-10 years.
If you disagree with my statement, assume that it was just a joke :duck:
 
WidebodyPTV
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:41 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
While this is big news in the sense its the first time they indicated actual dates for these fleet retirements, the announcement in the 8-K filing really isn't all that unexpected and in reality only likely pulls ahead the pre-covid retirement plans for these fleet types by 1-2 years.

What this indicates to me is the following:

- Taking the non-cash write-down now as said when they already are recognizing losses and take the hit now versus on-going
- They have decided to stop doing any further HMV / heavy maintenance work on those fleet types, so the timing of the last frames to go through would've been 2019. Thus the frames that are due for HMVs in 2020 are done, and the ones due in 2021 will go out when they run out of green-time
- This ties into the broader fleet plan, so we now are starting to see the plan for the current fleet, we haven't seen the revised delivery schedule for all the Airbus aircraft on-order; there was already sufficient capacity on-order between the A359, A339, A321NEO, A220s to cover most of this in the out years.
- Some of the plans in terms of the B763 for example were pre-covid based on continued growth and expansion beyond 2019 peak numbers; we obviously aren't gettting back to those numbers for 5-10 years

---
B763 - While this is the first time we've seen an official date (Dec 2025) it really is maybe 1-2 year prior to where they were scheduled to be retired pre-COVID. The aircraft were all basically at, near, or recently through their last heavy maintenance cycles. Considering the backlog of A339 orders/deliveries, the writing was on the wall. Announced last quarter was the early retirement of 7 B763s which were likely all due for heavy maintenance over the next year.

B712 - there has been a lot of rumor and speculation about this fleet. The fleet had been primarily leases with renewals coming due over the next several years. Rumors about keeping to 2030 and installing PTVs prior to Covid, rumors about working a deal with Boeing for 737 MAX a few months ago. An airworthiness directive that would require seats to be replaced by the end of 2022 that may or may not have been extended. In reality, even pre-covid keeping them to 2030 seemed like a stretch especially with the backlog of A220 orders. I honestly right now more surprised they are keeping them until 2025 versus what easily could've been a decision to let them go in 2021 or 2022 in the covid era. The part that we don't know yet is how they've renegotiated all the Airbus deliveries over the next few years. Right now only ~45 of the 91 are flying, it will be interesting to see if they reactivate the ones in storage.

CR2 - I personally don't have the hate against this type that so many do, but I get it. I have no issue with them on the short flights into small markets, granted that I was used to flying SF3 and/or the "Bro into back in the day. (Full disclosure - was a fan of turboprops, thought they were pretty cool). Granted, back in the day flew a CR2 on SLC-MSP next to a dude who was like 6'5 with football lineman shoulders - not cool. Anyways, this fleet was approaching its twilight anyways. This obviously applies to the DL-owned CR2s which are operated by Endeavor (9E). Unclear exactly if this impacts the Skywest (OO) owned CR2s that primarily do EAS-flying. I think the Skywest at-risk flying was terminated with Covid and that has reverted to flying under capacity purchase agreements. Some of the flying will simply go to larger 2-class RJs, the EAS stuff will stay under EAS contracts maybe still with CR2s, but there could be some small market fall-out. 50-seat flying is in its twilight anyways at all of the US3.


It's huge news in the sense that it likely implies DL believes the market won't recover for many years (especially long-haul international). This really isn't surprising -- most white collar workers have yet to return to the office, and when they do, they'll be working for companies budgeting significantly less funds for travel. At the beginning of the year, it was probable that many 763 could soldier on into next decade... now they'll be gone within 5 years -- and likely without a replacement. Things aren't getting much better... corporate travel is all but nonexistent, and most flights still feature light loads, despite insanely cheap fares in trunk markets. DL/Airbus will probably defer most of their orders.

But heck, this is a.net, and DL's decision to prematurely retire the 763 must mean that Boeing gave them an insane deal on the 787! All those flights DL's (and other airlines) adding later this year / next year out of speculation are already printing money!
 
FlyGuyNash
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:52 am

I will say back in June it was mentioned Delta's current fleet type was made up of 13 fleet families and 25 fleet types and the plan was to drop it down to 8 fleet families with 11 fleet types which include the DCI fleet.

My prediction based on those comments.

1.737
a 737-800
b 737-900
2.220
a 220-100
b 220-300
3.320
a A320
b A321
4.767-400 or 787
5.A330
a A330-300
b A330-900
6.350
a 350-900
b 350-1000
7.CRJ
a CRJ-900
8.ERJ
a ERJ-175

I'll use this as a source since I can't provide the actual video as it's on the employee website.
https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delt ... ation.html
 
737max8
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:18 am

Maybe WN will take the 717s back and use them for inter-island. Just kidding :D
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
Flown on: 717 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 7M8 744 744ER 752 753 762 763 772 773ER 788 789 A220 A319/20/21 A332 A333 A339 A343 A346 A359 A388
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:16 am

FlyGuyNash wrote:
I will say back in June it was mentioned Delta's current fleet type was made up of 13 fleet families and 25 fleet types and the plan was to drop it down to 8 fleet families with 11 fleet types which include the DCI fleet.

My prediction based on those comments.

1.737
a 737-800
b 737-900
2.220
a 220-100
b 220-300
3.320
a A320
b A321
4.767-400 or 787
5.A330
a A330-300
b A330-900
6.350
a 350-900
b 350-1000
7.CRJ
a CRJ-900
8.ERJ
a ERJ-175

I'll use this as a source since I can't provide the actual video as it's on the employee website.
https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delt ... ation.html

The CRJ’s are getting old, and no replacement is on the horizon. Same for the erj’s, but at least they still have the OEM supporting them. For the foreseeable future the 175 is the only viable RJ for long term at the moment. The CRJ’s will get drawn down as they age out, many are approaching, or already over 20 years old, and a 3Rd or 4th D check will be a costly endeavor. For frequent service to small cities, the 175 is just too much airplane, and “competitive requirements” regarding frequencies, which is what the 175 was built for, are not going to be a consideration for a long time. And keep in mind, with the drawdown of mainline fleets, SCOPE is going to become a big consideration as to what goes, and what stays at the regional level.

I can easily see a return to the “Regional Connection” days, with the smaller carriers flying At-risk from smaller cities to the hubs under their own branding. American has already stepped into this, having initiated agreements with Contour, Boutique, and even Alaska/JetBlue. United is picking up the branding on the Skywest EAS routes. Also look for the Sky Courier to see much of the “new” regional action as production grows, IF Raytheon doesn’t screw up and price themselves out of contention, something they are entirely capable of doing.
 
FlyGuyNash
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:00 am

FlyingElvii wrote:
FlyGuyNash wrote:
I will say back in June it was mentioned Delta's current fleet type was made up of 13 fleet families and 25 fleet types and the plan was to drop it down to 8 fleet families with 11 fleet types which include the DCI fleet.

My prediction based on those comments.

1.737
a 737-800
b 737-900
2.220
a 220-100
b 220-300
3.320
a A320
b A321
4.767-400 or 787
5.A330
a A330-300
b A330-900
6.350
a 350-900
b 350-1000
7.CRJ
a CRJ-900
8.ERJ
a ERJ-175

I'll use this as a source since I can't provide the actual video as it's on the employee website.
https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delt ... ation.html

The CRJ’s are getting old, and no replacement is on the horizon. Same for the erj’s, but at least they still have the OEM supporting them. For the foreseeable future the 175 is the only viable RJ for long term at the moment. The CRJ’s will get drawn down as they age out, many are approaching, or already over 20 years old, and a 3Rd or 4th D check will be a costly endeavor. For frequent service to small cities, the 175 is just too much airplane, and “competitive requirements” regarding frequencies, which is what the 175 was built for, are not going to be a consideration for a long time. And keep in mind, with the drawdown of mainline fleets, SCOPE is going to become a big consideration as to what goes, and what stays at the regional level.

I can easily see a return to the “Regional Connection” days, with the smaller carriers flying At-risk from smaller cities to the hubs under their own branding. American has already stepped into this, having initiated agreements with Contour, Boutique, and even Alaska/JetBlue. United is picking up the branding on the Skywest EAS routes. Also look for the Sky Courier to see much of the “new” regional action as production grows, IF Raytheon doesn’t screw up and price themselves out of contention, something they are entirely capable of doing.


CRJs will still be with us for a long time. Endeavor still has roughly 50 CRJ-900s that are less than 7 years old. Eventually those will have to be replaced and I could only see the 175 replacing them right now unless Mitsubishi actually can get their scope compliant Spacejet figured out.
 
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RWA380
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:08 am

raylee67 wrote:
I guess the 763 may have a higher value as a BCF then a continuing concern as a pax aircraft. The long haul fleet is going to standardize between A330 and A350 then.

The 764 will become a very small fleet of odd-ball type. However, we can probably expect that, when the situation has sufficiently improved, even if it takes it to 2024 or 2025, Delta will expand its fleet of A339 and A350 to replace the 764. Eventually more of those will be ordered down the road to replace the older A332 and A333 too.

And it still leaves the question of what will replace the large 757 fleet. Boeing better comes up with something good in the next two years. Otherwise, a mix order of A321NEO and NEO-XLR will be likely.


Those 767-300ER's are old & not as needed as they once were. I have flown DL, if seated in Y of course with AA, MP, KL & UA TATL on their respective 763ER's & in Y, the 80% aisle or window layout is second to none in my book. I flew out of SLC on the closing day of the Olympics headed for Honolulu (stopping in SFO first) & to my surprise was a very brand new 764 we were in row 1, I was very excited.
The federal mandate on that day, just post 9/11.

No one, may unbuckle their belt, not stand-up or enter the aisle for any reason, if you had an emergency in those first full 30 minutes (measured by wheels up) you rang your call button & the closest attendant was dispatched to discuss your dilemma. Well she rushed during her connection with all the added security in the airport she forgot to pee. I guess I must pee does not, an emergency make under a federal mandate & she was forced to stay seated & she wet herself, with 6 minutes to go.

Anyway, the plane was amazing & I have flown T-PAC on OZ in the 76r3ER HNL-SEL-BKK-SIN-SEL-HNL all in J, thank goodness, coach looked nice but very much not our taste in manners of passengers, the crew on OZ was amazing, we were given gifts on every leg, including the 2 hour BKK-SIN. I had won the grand prize at an industry welcome event, for OZ sponsored by the HVB & the airport marking a milestone for airline numbers.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
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freakyrat
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:52 pm

klm617 wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
CR2 - I personally don't have the hate against this type that so many do, but I get it. I have no issue with them on the short flights into small markets, granted that I was used to flying SF3 and/or the "Bro into back in the day. (Full disclosure - was a fan of turboprops, thought they were pretty cool). Granted, back in the day flew a CR2 on SLC-MSP next to a dude who was like 6'5 with football lineman shoulders - not cool. Anyways, this fleet was approaching its twilight anyways. This obviously applies to the DL-owned CR2s which are operated by Endeavor (9E). Unclear exactly if this impacts the Skywest (OO) owned CR2s that primarily do EAS-flying. I think the Skywest at-risk flying was terminated with Covid and that has reverted to flying under capacity purchase agreements. Some of the flying will simply go to larger 2-class RJs, the EAS stuff will stay under EAS contracts maybe still with CR2s, but there could be some small market fall-out. 50-seat flying is in its twilight anyways at all of the US3.



I don't have hate for the CR2 either but it doesn't belong on routes like DTW-BUF/ALB,ROC/ABE/GSO/GSP/YYZ/YUL NW never flew that small of a plane on those routes and it detracts from customers using DTW for their connections for said reason. It is more of a plane for DTW-LAN/FNT/AZO/TVC/SBN/FWA/ and the like. They CR2 without a doubt has had a negative impact on the Detroit hub more so than any other.


Plan Pre-Covid for SBN was SBN-ATL CRJ7/9, SBN-DTW CRJ2, SBN-MSP CRJ7/9. When Traffic Returns I can see this happening. Endeavor (9E) has presently been running the ATL flights with Skywest (OO) DTW. MSP flights are set to resume in Nov. DL is in a good position now and setting themselves up Post-Covid with their regional CRJ flying by having their wholly owned subsidiary Endeavor running ATL and letting Skywest handle DTW.
 
DaCubbyBearBar
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:56 pm

I am NOT AT ALL surprised to see the 717s leave.... I can see DL chomping to get more of the A221/223 on property and enjoy the FAR SUPERIOR performance and route flexibility that it offers. Possibly even opening up new non-hub flying
I am me and no one else...so my opinions are mine
 
freakyrat
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:12 pm

DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
I am NOT AT ALL surprised to see the 717s leave.... I can see DL chomping to get more of the A221/223 on property and enjoy the FAR SUPERIOR performance and route flexibility that it offers. Possibly even opening up new non-hub flying


The aircraft does offer flexibility. The only minor problem with the A220 is that the engines require a cool down after flight so you really cannot do quick turns with it on short hops. That being said, it is a far superior aircraft for what it's designed to do and has more range than the 717.
 
acavpics
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:09 pm

Maybe Boeing should seriously consider a 767-X now?
 
raylee67
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:33 pm

ILNFlyer wrote:
raylee67 wrote:
I guess the 763 may have a higher value as a BCF then a continuing concern as a pax aircraft..


I'm sure the Amazon Air operators (ATSG, ATLAS, and now SUN) will only be too happy to gobble these up for that purpose. There are many of these birds (both 717 and 763) parked at ILN as we speak. The running joke at ILN is that the ramp they occupy is now nothing more than ATSG's shopping cart.


I wonder if Amazon would consider expanding its air operations internationally, thereby connecting its various international websites. Amazon Japan is selling a lot of different things than US and so as Amazon sites in Europe. The 767 can surely connect between Seattle and Tokyo, and also Cincinnati with London and Paris.
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:52 pm

freakyrat wrote:
DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
I am NOT AT ALL surprised to see the 717s leave.... I can see DL chomping to get more of the A221/223 on property and enjoy the FAR SUPERIOR performance and route flexibility that it offers. Possibly even opening up new non-hub flying


The aircraft does offer flexibility. The only minor problem with the A220 is that the engines require a cool down after flight so you really cannot do quick turns with it on short hops. That being said, it is a far superior aircraft for what it's designed to do and has more range than the 717.

To be fair, only island hopping requires the short cool down after takeoff times. So Hawaiian, Cebu Pacific, and Air New Zealand are the only three I can think of not opperating turboprops.

The PW1200G on the MRJ runs cooler, it should have a much quicker turn time. New engines have tighter tolerances and run hotter; that increases the needed cooldown times. The lower pressure ratio PW1200G should do fine.

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:08 pm

Does that mean the only Boeing widebody that will be left in Delta's fleet will be the 764? It'll be an oddball in the fleet, next to a massive Airbus fleet, although there will still be some 757s left by then. If United decides to get rid of their 764s maybe Delta can pick them up if those still have a low number of cycles by then.
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:12 pm

DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
I am NOT AT ALL surprised to see the 717s leave.... I can see DL chomping to get more of the A221/223 on property and enjoy the FAR SUPERIOR performance and route flexibility that it offers. Possibly even opening up new non-hub flying


DL may like A220s but it's going to be capital-constrained for a while. That doesn't mean it won't take any new aircraft but the rate of 75-80 a year it had lined up pre-COVID... not gonna happen. Lightsaber is more enthusiastic about DL buying used. Maybe some - but I don't see a transaction like scooping up 49 MD-90s or 88 717s.

The dumping of 18 777s and 56 763s is going to make widebodies a priority, I think. I don't believe there are enough A350s and 330Neos on order to replace those one-for-one. If you believe DL can be down ~40 widebodies fully three or four years from now we should all be shorting AA, UA and DL stock.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:20 pm

lightsaber wrote:
freakyrat wrote:
DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
I am NOT AT ALL surprised to see the 717s leave.... I can see DL chomping to get more of the A221/223 on property and enjoy the FAR SUPERIOR performance and route flexibility that it offers. Possibly even opening up new non-hub flying


The aircraft does offer flexibility. The only minor problem with the A220 is that the engines require a cool down after flight so you really cannot do quick turns with it on short hops. That being said, it is a far superior aircraft for what it's designed to do and has more range than the 717.

To be fair, only island hopping requires the short cool down after takeoff times. So Hawaiian, Cebu Pacific, and Air New Zealand are the only three I can think of not opperating turboprops.


:?: Cebu pacific has 15 ATRs and Air New Zealand has 27 ATRs and 23 Dash 8-300s.
 
CRJ200flyer
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:39 pm

freakyrat wrote:
klm617 wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
CR2 - I personally don't have the hate against this type that so many do, but I get it. I have no issue with them on the short flights into small markets, granted that I was used to flying SF3 and/or the "Bro into back in the day. (Full disclosure - was a fan of turboprops, thought they were pretty cool). Granted, back in the day flew a CR2 on SLC-MSP next to a dude who was like 6'5 with football lineman shoulders - not cool. Anyways, this fleet was approaching its twilight anyways. This obviously applies to the DL-owned CR2s which are operated by Endeavor (9E). Unclear exactly if this impacts the Skywest (OO) owned CR2s that primarily do EAS-flying. I think the Skywest at-risk flying was terminated with Covid and that has reverted to flying under capacity purchase agreements. Some of the flying will simply go to larger 2-class RJs, the EAS stuff will stay under EAS contracts maybe still with CR2s, but there could be some small market fall-out. 50-seat flying is in its twilight anyways at all of the US3.



I don't have hate for the CR2 either but it doesn't belong on routes like DTW-BUF/ALB,ROC/ABE/GSO/GSP/YYZ/YUL NW never flew that small of a plane on those routes and it detracts from customers using DTW for their connections for said reason. It is more of a plane for DTW-LAN/FNT/AZO/TVC/SBN/FWA/ and the like. They CR2 without a doubt has had a negative impact on the Detroit hub more so than any other.


Plan Pre-Covid for SBN was SBN-ATL CRJ7/9, SBN-DTW CRJ2, SBN-MSP CRJ7/9. When Traffic Returns I can see this happening. Endeavor (9E) has presently been running the ATL flights with Skywest (OO) DTW. MSP flights are set to resume in Nov. DL is in a good position now and setting themselves up Post-Covid with their regional CRJ flying by having their wholly owned subsidiary Endeavor running ATL and letting Skywest handle DTW.


As an Endeavor pilot based in DTW, l have seen nothing like the case you’re describing, nor has our management indicated anything like this nor has any statement from SkyWest. DTW is a large crew base for Endeavor. Saying SkyWest is going to “handle” DTW would mean moving dozens of Endeavor aircraft and hundreds of personnel.

Here’s a quick breakdown for Delta Connection flights in October with data my friends and I have gone over:

ATL:
9E: 98%
YX: 2%

DTW:
9E: 62%
OO: 30%
YX: 8%

MSP:
9E: 59%
OO: 41%
 
IPFreely
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:52 pm

Antaras wrote:
Because the 293-seat A333, 281-seat A339, and 306-seat A359 have never been a direct replacement for the 230-seat A332 and B763.
Unless there is a big shift in strategy ("upsize"), and the "upsize-shift" makes no sense amid this pandemic.


That assumes Delta wants to do 1:1 widebody replacements. Looking at their recent alliance deals and reading their statements to the press, maintaining or growing their widebody fleet seems unlikely. Their A333 and A359 should meet the needs of hub-to-hub service. Beyond that Delta has positioned themselves to use Air France, KLM, Virgin Atlantic, Korean, and LATAM to do the heavy lifting for international long haul flying including flights to both hubs and secondary cities.
 
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:56 pm

VSMUT wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
freakyrat wrote:

The aircraft does offer flexibility. The only minor problem with the A220 is that the engines require a cool down after flight so you really cannot do quick turns with it on short hops. That being said, it is a far superior aircraft for what it's designed to do and has more range than the 717.

To be fair, only island hopping requires the short cool down after takeoff times. So Hawaiian, Cebu Pacific, and Air New Zealand are the only three I can think of not opperating turboprops.


:?: Cebu pacific has 15 ATRs and Air New Zealand has 27 ATRs and 23 Dash 8-300s.

Cebu was a target customer for the 717. Instead they bought A319s. They leased them and have mostly replaced them. ANZ discovered a material flaw in the A320 wings island hopping with them.

The 717 thrives on quick turns. As you note, mist island hopers fly turboprops. So I should have said opperating jets on island hops as all three major island hopping airlines also fly turboprops.

My point is, there is no magical market to 717s with the flood of A320CEOs and 737NGs available next year.

Lightsaber
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cschleic
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:04 pm

DocLightning wrote:
klm617 wrote:

And the 321LR certainly can not do ATL to central Europe either.


The XLR might. And remember how the A330 initially was a TATL aircraft with an endurance of 8-10 hours and now it can do over 15? Remember how the A320 was designed to be able to do a US transcon and now can do TATL? Airbus is famous for their relentless and incremental improvements to their products. I will be very interested to see what they have managed to get the A321 to do in five years.


Good point. They've made the step with new engines. Imagine what the 321 would do if they put a new wing on it.
 
TW870
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:36 pm

There won't be any direct replacement for the 767-300. Pre-COVID, Delta was running the 767-300ER fleet somewhat like the MD-88/90 fleet, where you deploy the airplanes at peak times and on niche routes to take advantage of relatively narrow market opportunities. Part of the reason that worked is you had an old, depreciated fleet that you could let slack on days/months when premium demand wasn't there. That wouldn't work for an expensive fleet of brand new widebodies. This news says to me that we are in for a long, slow recovery, and that routes will either be covered with existing fleet types or dropped.
 
AZORMP
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:10 pm

CRJ200flyer wrote:
freakyrat wrote:
klm617 wrote:


I don't have hate for the CR2 either but it doesn't belong on routes like DTW-BUF/ALB,ROC/ABE/GSO/GSP/YYZ/YUL NW never flew that small of a plane on those routes and it detracts from customers using DTW for their connections for said reason. It is more of a plane for DTW-LAN/FNT/AZO/TVC/SBN/FWA/ and the like. They CR2 without a doubt has had a negative impact on the Detroit hub more so than any other.


Plan Pre-Covid for SBN was SBN-ATL CRJ7/9, SBN-DTW CRJ2, SBN-MSP CRJ7/9. When Traffic Returns I can see this happening. Endeavor (9E) has presently been running the ATL flights with Skywest (OO) DTW. MSP flights are set to resume in Nov. DL is in a good position now and setting themselves up Post-Covid with their regional CRJ flying by having their wholly owned subsidiary Endeavor running ATL and letting Skywest handle DTW.


As an Endeavor pilot based in DTW, l have seen nothing like the case you’re describing, nor has our management indicated anything like this nor has any statement from SkyWest. DTW is a large crew base for Endeavor. Saying SkyWest is going to “handle” DTW would mean moving dozens of Endeavor aircraft and hundreds of personnel.

Here’s a quick breakdown for Delta Connection flights in October with data my friends and I have gone over:

ATL:
9E: 98%
YX: 2%

DTW:
9E: 62%
OO: 30%
YX: 8%

MSP:
9E: 59%
OO: 41%



Original plan (from what I heard) was to have YX handle the NE, 9E handle the Midwest, and send OO and their APU-deferred deuce canoes back to the Promised Land :lol:

That, of course, was pre-Covid. I do know that OO doesn’t expect the CPA for the DL 200s to be renewed as of 2Q20, so if that holds firm when the 3Q report is released, then I think the only (non-EAS) CRJ-200s in DL’s fleet will be operated by 9E before being retired altogether.
Kalamazoo’s Radio Man

The RJ2 sucks.
 
777Mech
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:30 pm

Antaras wrote:
So...everyone is guessing that Boeing is scooping the chance and offering a nice 788 deal to DL???

Well I am predicting that DL will acquire around 20x B788 to replace the old B763 and A332


You may not be wrong. Boeing could swoop in and help DL offload those 717 leases early for a MAX and 787 order.

What's the soonest you could get a MAX aircraft off the line?
 
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snoopaloop
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:45 pm

CRJ200flyer wrote:
freakyrat wrote:
klm617 wrote:


I don't have hate for the CR2 either but it doesn't belong on routes like DTW-BUF/ALB,ROC/ABE/GSO/GSP/YYZ/YUL NW never flew that small of a plane on those routes and it detracts from customers using DTW for their connections for said reason. It is more of a plane for DTW-LAN/FNT/AZO/TVC/SBN/FWA/ and the like. They CR2 without a doubt has had a negative impact on the Detroit hub more so than any other.


Plan Pre-Covid for SBN was SBN-ATL CRJ7/9, SBN-DTW CRJ2, SBN-MSP CRJ7/9. When Traffic Returns I can see this happening. Endeavor (9E) has presently been running the ATL flights with Skywest (OO) DTW. MSP flights are set to resume in Nov. DL is in a good position now and setting themselves up Post-Covid with their regional CRJ flying by having their wholly owned subsidiary Endeavor running ATL and letting Skywest handle DTW.


As an Endeavor pilot based in DTW, l have seen nothing like the case you’re describing, nor has our management indicated anything like this nor has any statement from SkyWest. DTW is a large crew base for Endeavor. Saying SkyWest is going to “handle” DTW would mean moving dozens of Endeavor aircraft and hundreds of personnel.

Here’s a quick breakdown for Delta Connection flights in October with data my friends and I have gone over:

ATL:
9E: 98%
YX: 2%

DTW:
9E: 62%
OO: 30%
YX: 8%

MSP:
9E: 59%
OO: 41%


What’s the intent with the NYC market?
 
Lootess
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:54 pm

I don't think the door is shut on the MAX or 787 at Delta either, especially if Boeing finds a way to unload the 717s. It is going to be a buyer's market and you have to be blind to think that Boeing wouldn't want to find creative ways to keep that Charleston line busy (I'm still in the boat they ultimately shut down the Everett 787 line)

More A330neos are practically a given in the long-term, A321neos if we don't get a true 757 replacement.
 
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:00 pm

777Mech wrote:
Antaras wrote:
So...everyone is guessing that Boeing is scooping the chance and offering a nice 788 deal to DL???

Well I am predicting that DL will acquire around 20x B788 to replace the old B763 and A332


You may not be wrong. Boeing could swoop in and help DL offload those 717 leases early for a MAX and 787 order.

What's the soonest you could get a MAX aircraft off the line?



...and if that were the case, in order to secure the good press - I am willing to bet that they will deliver the aircraft to Delta's schedule - regardless of their demand.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:17 pm

777Mech wrote:
Antaras wrote:
So...everyone is guessing that Boeing is scooping the chance and offering a nice 788 deal to DL???

Well I am predicting that DL will acquire around 20x B788 to replace the old B763 and A332


You may not be wrong. Boeing could swoop in and help DL offload those 717 leases early for a MAX and 787 order.

What's the soonest you could get a MAX aircraft off the line?


They could have the pic of the litter from all the white tails.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:43 pm

I'm sad to see the 763's and 717's leave, but they are getting a little old. I'm not sad to see the CRJ-200's leave. I flew on one from PDX-SEA and I was very underwhelmed.
 
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Antaras
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:28 pm

777Mech wrote:
What's the soonest you could get a MAX aircraft off the line?

Just some few weeks, I guess. There are bunches of 737 Max 8 whitetails.
In case DL wants some brand-new first-hand airframes or it failed to negotiate with Boeing/lessors to loot those whitetails, and as if DL orders the aircraft right in this year, I predict that it can receive brand new MAXes from 2022-2024 which is completely acceptable with DL.
If you disagree with my statement, assume that it was just a joke :duck:
 
Boof02671
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:35 pm

IPFreely wrote:
Antaras wrote:
Because the 293-seat A333, 281-seat A339, and 306-seat A359 have never been a direct replacement for the 230-seat A332 and B763.
Unless there is a big shift in strategy ("upsize"), and the "upsize-shift" makes no sense amid this pandemic.


That assumes Delta wants to do 1:1 widebody replacements. Looking at their recent alliance deals and reading their statements to the press, maintaining or growing their widebody fleet seems unlikely. Their A333 and A359 should meet the needs of hub-to-hub service. Beyond that Delta has positioned themselves to use Air France, KLM, Virgin Atlantic, Korean, and LATAM to do the heavy lifting for international long haul flying including flights to both hubs and secondary cities.

They can’t increase partner flying, they are already in violation of the pilots’ contract now
 
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Antaras
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:40 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
IPFreely wrote:
Antaras wrote:
Because the 293-seat A333, 281-seat A339, and 306-seat A359 have never been a direct replacement for the 230-seat A332 and B763.
Unless there is a big shift in strategy ("upsize"), and the "upsize-shift" makes no sense amid this pandemic.


That assumes Delta wants to do 1:1 widebody replacements. Looking at their recent alliance deals and reading their statements to the press, maintaining or growing their widebody fleet seems unlikely. Their A333 and A359 should meet the needs of hub-to-hub service. Beyond that Delta has positioned themselves to use Air France, KLM, Virgin Atlantic, Korean, and LATAM to do the heavy lifting for international long haul flying including flights to both hubs and secondary cities.

They can’t increase partner flying, they are already in violation of the pilots’ contract now

Sure, DL can't yeet everything to AF/KL, KE, or VS. Besides the mentioned fact that DL has been violating the pilots' contract, this also means that DL is throwing away good money.

DL must find some 230-seaters in the next 5 years to fill in the gap of the 332/763. Seems like the 788 is the best (and most likely option), or DL will choose the A338 if it wants to go extra long-haul (or to make it ultra Airbus-bias)
If you disagree with my statement, assume that it was just a joke :duck:
 
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LH748
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:06 pm

Adding the 787 now would just make the fleet more complex again. DL decided for an Airbus longhaul fleet and they had good reasons to do so. Considering Boeing's ridiculous reaction when DL decided to buy the C Series I cannot imagine that DL would be too happy to buy anything from Boeing unless they absolutely had to. I rather see them reduce frequencies on some smaller routes that would get the 332 or 333 instead of the 763 or if possible switch to the 321 or a combination of 332 and 321.
Why not buy some used 330s and save money?
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freakyrat
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Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:18 pm

CRJ200flyer wrote:
freakyrat wrote:
klm617 wrote:


I don't have hate for the CR2 either but it doesn't belong on routes like DTW-BUF/ALB,ROC/ABE/GSO/GSP/YYZ/YUL NW never flew that small of a plane on those routes and it detracts from customers using DTW for their connections for said reason. It is more of a plane for DTW-LAN/FNT/AZO/TVC/SBN/FWA/ and the like. They CR2 without a doubt has had a negative impact on the Detroit hub more so than any other.


Plan Pre-Covid for SBN was SBN-ATL CRJ7/9, SBN-DTW CRJ2, SBN-MSP CRJ7/9. When Traffic Returns I can see this happening. Endeavor (9E) has presently been running the ATL flights with Skywest (OO) DTW. MSP flights are set to resume in Nov. DL is in a good position now and setting themselves up Post-Covid with their regional CRJ flying by having their wholly owned subsidiary Endeavor running ATL and letting Skywest handle DTW.


As an Endeavor pilot based in DTW, l have seen nothing like the case you’re describing, nor has our management indicated anything like this nor has any statement from SkyWest. DTW is a large crew base for Endeavor. Saying SkyWest is going to “handle” DTW would mean moving dozens of Endeavor aircraft and hundreds of personnel.

Here’s a quick breakdown for Delta Connection flights in October with data my friends and I have gone over:

ATL:
9E: 98%
YX: 2%

DTW:
9E: 62%
OO: 30%
YX: 8%

MSP:
9E: 59%
OO: 41%


Nice to hear from you. What I meant was Pre-Covid Delta had planned to to use CRJ700/900 on SBN-ATL and SBN-MSP and CRJ200 on SBN-DTW. I didn't know your Endeavor bases were so big so I apologize. The Airport was working also on getting a DL mainline morning flight to ATL returning late from ATL. Endeavor is already operating the ATL flights with CRJ200's and as traffic returns I would say you folks will phase in the larger RJ's The fly in the ointment are the DTW flights with this Covid thing those have been bouncing around between 9E and OO so it's anyones guess who will operate them in the future and also what type aircraft as DL phases out the 50-seaters. DL also has an open RFQ for a SBN-JFK flight to connect to International but that has been put off for the foreseeable future. OO also has maintenance bases at SBN and FWA. Again my apologies.
 
freakyrat
Posts: 2092
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:04 pm

Re: Delta announced to phase out 717, 763 & CRJ200.

Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:32 pm

AZORMP wrote:
CRJ200flyer wrote:
freakyrat wrote:

Plan Pre-Covid for SBN was SBN-ATL CRJ7/9, SBN-DTW CRJ2, SBN-MSP CRJ7/9. When Traffic Returns I can see this happening. Endeavor (9E) has presently been running the ATL flights with Skywest (OO) DTW. MSP flights are set to resume in Nov. DL is in a good position now and setting themselves up Post-Covid with their regional CRJ flying by having their wholly owned subsidiary Endeavor running ATL and letting Skywest handle DTW.


As an Endeavor pilot based in DTW, l have seen nothing like the case you’re describing, nor has our management indicated anything like this nor has any statement from SkyWest. DTW is a large crew base for Endeavor. Saying SkyWest is going to “handle” DTW would mean moving dozens of Endeavor aircraft and hundreds of personnel.

Here’s a quick breakdown for Delta Connection flights in October with data my friends and I have gone over:

ATL:
9E: 98%
YX: 2%

DTW:
9E: 62%
OO: 30%
YX: 8%

MSP:
9E: 59%
OO: 41%



Original plan (from what I heard) was to have YX handle the NE, 9E handle the Midwest, and send OO and their APU-deferred deuce canoes back to the Promised Land :lol:

That, of course, was pre-Covid. I do know that OO doesn’t expect the CPA for the DL 200s to be renewed as of 2Q20, so if that holds firm when the 3Q report is released, then I think the only (non-EAS) CRJ-200s in DL’s fleet will be operated by 9E before being retired altogether.


I sure looks like at SBN that DL is moving the flying to 9E. SBN handled 818,000 passengers last year among the 4 airlines. The airport is presently down about 40% for the year. Once traffic does return to the 2019 levels 9E will phase in the larger RJ's as the 200's leave so that by 2025 most of these bigger Midwest stations will be a combination of large RJ's from 9E and some Mainline on the longer routes most likely with the A220's.

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