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cedarjet
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British operators of the DC-10

Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:08 pm

I'm thinking about UK airlines who have operated the DC-10. I've got British Caledonian, British Airways, Laker Airways, Excalibur, Novair, and the sole Monarch one that's now in Manchester. Who have I forgotten, if any, and do you have any interesting stories about the DC-10 on the British register? I was hoping to illustrate this post with a few photos from the database but I cannot figure out the search engine for love nor money. Was hoping to find an Excalibur one, I know they had a pretty bad experience with the type. Cheers!
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
User001
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:27 pm

Airtours operated a couple too.
 
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PM
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:28 pm

You've managed a much longer list than I would have been able to come up with! I can't add much but my first ever trip over the Atlantic was on DC10s of Laker's Skytrain. Wish I could remember much about it but it was 42 years ago. :old:
 
concordeforever
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:36 pm

Caledonian Airways, which then became JMC. And Airtours, which became MyTravel....
 
jetwet1
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:56 pm

Pretty much a duplicate of what was posted above.
 
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JerseyFlyer
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:00 pm

Air Europe ordered (more likely LoI'd in today's terminology) DC-10s that would have been RB211 powered, but these were never produced.
 
TUGMASTER
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:11 pm

JerseyFlyer wrote:
Air Europe ordered (more likely LoI'd in today's terminology) DC-10s that would have been RB211 powered, but these were never produced.


Pretty sure those orders were for MD11’s, not DC10’s.
 
n729pa
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:19 pm

Cal Air....circa 1989-90 had 2 DC10-10s as I recall, based at LGW.
 
skipness1E
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:25 pm

BCAL -> British Caledonian Charter -> BCA Charter --> Cal Air -> Novair all in eights years 1982-1990! 3 x -10s, all Laker firesale bargains.

Airtours had 3 x -10s and 1 x -30 from memory, DC10s were becoming rare even then.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:48 pm

British Caledonian, Airtours (think they rebranded as JMC), British Airways (inherited from BCAL), Laker Skytrain are the ones I remember.
 
B757236GT
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:55 pm

The three DC-10-10s that My travel/Airtours had pretty much stayed together throughout their lives. Starting with Western through Delta and Scanair/Premiair (Airtours Scandinavian Arm) then to My Travel/Airtours. After leaving UK service they were stored at Kemble before all three were picked up and flown to South Africa for Executive Aero Space. I dont believe they so much if any use although they survived another 10 or so years before being scrapped. The DC-10-30 (G-BYDA) wasnt so lucky being scrapped at Kemble.

The other one of the last UK registered DC10s is still with us in part at the Manchester AVP although she was a relative youngster being taken out of service at 19 service years (it spent 4 years as a white tail before going to Zambian airlines in 1984 then Monarch in 1996). It was also i believe the only UK registered DC10 i never saw in service! It always seemed to evade me!

After that i dont think a DC10 has ever carried a UK reg since?
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:39 pm

cedarjet wrote:
I've got British Caledonian, British Airways, Laker Airways, Excalibur, Novair, and the sole Monarch one that's now in Manchester.!


Excalibur never got the chance to get their own DC-10s as in 1996 while they were planning to take delivery of two -30s and were leasing a Skyjet -30 in the meantime, they gathered so much bad presswith it that the airline ceased ops.
 
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Crosswind
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:50 pm

cedarjet wrote:
I'm thinking about UK airlines who have operated the DC-10. I've got British Caledonian, British Airways, Laker Airways, Excalibur, Novair, and the sole Monarch one that's now in Manchester. Who have I forgotten, if any, and do you have any interesting stories about the DC-10 on the British register? I was hoping to illustrate this post with a few photos from the database but I cannot figure out the search engine for love nor money. Was hoping to find an Excalibur one, I know they had a pretty bad experience with the type. Cheers!


Excalibur never actually operated the DC-10, which is why you can’t find a photo of one. They’d planned to operate a pair for the summer 1996 season, returned their A320 fleet to lessors to concentrate on long-haul as they had been bought by Globespan Holidays. There were problems with the aircraft they had intended to source, so were forced to wet lease a single DC-10 from Skyjet registered V2-LEH. It remained operated by Skyjet on their AOC, in full Skyjet livery with no titles. Problems with that aircraft, and the fact they’d sold a programme for 2 DC-10s saw the airlines demise early in the summer.


Regards
CROSSWIND
 
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American 767
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:00 pm

All BA DC-10s came from BCal. I don't think BA would have ever flown those if they didn't merge with BCal.

I believe that Monarch also flew those, but I'm not sure about that one so correct me if I'm wrong. I know Laker did.
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:43 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
British Caledonian, Airtours (think they rebranded as JMC), British Airways (inherited from BCAL), Laker Skytrain are the ones I remember.


Airtours rebranded as MyTravel. JMC was formed by merging Caledonian and Flying Colours.

Caledonian’s DC-10’s survived into the JMC era unlike the L-1011 TriStar’s that were withdrawn by late-1999 ahead of the merger.

American 767 wrote:
All BA DC-10s came from BCal. I don't think BA would have ever flown those if they didn't merge with BCal.

I believe that Monarch also flew those, but I'm not sure about that one so correct me if I'm wrong. I know Laker did.


I suspect you’re correct regarding BA. It was at the time when BA was sometimes known as ‘Boeing Always’, plus they had also historically operated TriStar’s and 767’s started to join the fleet in 1990. Besides the merger, there wasn’t a real need for the DC-10 at BA when other types in the fleet at the time are taken into consideration.

The again, the same could have been said for the A320 order they inherited from BCal, but then years later they would pivot to the A320 Family as their short-haul aircraft of choice and would ultimately use the type to replace both the 737 and 757 fleets.

As for Monarch, they flew one DC-10. What’s left of it is the front half of the fuselage which is on display at MAN.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:55 pm

Does anyone recall what US cities were serviced with the BA DC10? I seem to recall IAH, DFW, TPA, and a few other LGW-originating flights. I don't remember if the DC10 ever flew out of LHR. I am pretty certain the L1011s though did.
 
cedarjet
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:22 pm

Some fantastic responses here. Very interesting! I'd forgotten about Airtours. Follow-up question -- anyone know why British Caledonian didn't buy Tristars, given they were powered by British-built Rolls-Royce engines? I'm going to go with range, but still surprising. I have BCal chairman Sir Adam Thomson's memoir here and the words Rolls, Royce, and Lockheed do not appear on a single one of its 589 pages.

Cointrin330 wrote:
Does anyone recall what US cities were serviced with the BA DC10? I seem to recall IAH, DFW, TPA, and a few other LGW-originating flights. I don't remember if the DC10 ever flew out of LHR. I am pretty certain the L1011s though did.

Also Atlanta, San Juan PR, and some Caribbean stuff. A buddy of mine who is now a type rating examiner on the 777 at BA flew the DC-10 early in his career as a young FO. I asked him if he liked flying the DC-10. He said it was a delight to fly, because it mostly flew to beaches!
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:25 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
Does anyone recall what US cities were serviced with the BA DC10? I seem to recall IAH, DFW, TPA, and a few other LGW-originating flights. I don't remember if the DC10 ever flew out of LHR. I am pretty certain the L1011s though did.

ATL, LAX and JFK (I once flew this sector as one of 8 pax total).
No LHR for the 10's.
 
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:39 pm

cedarjet wrote:
Some fantastic responses here. Very interesting! I'd forgotten about Airtours. Follow-up question -- anyone know why British Caledonian didn't buy Tristars, given they were powered by British-built Rolls-Royce engines? I'm going to go with range, but still surprising. I have BCal chairman Sir Adam Thomson's memoir here and the words Rolls, Royce, and Lockheed do not appear on a single one of its 589 pages.

Cointrin330 wrote:
Does anyone recall what US cities were serviced with the BA DC10? I seem to recall IAH, DFW, TPA, and a few other LGW-originating flights. I don't remember if the DC10 ever flew out of LHR. I am pretty certain the L1011s though did.

Also Atlanta, San Juan PR, and some Caribbean stuff. A buddy of mine who is now a type rating examiner on the 777 at BA flew the DC-10 early in his career as a young FO. I asked him if he liked flying the DC-10. He said it was a delight to fly, because it mostly flew to beaches!


BR picked up the DC10-30 ntu by CI, they were already painted and ready to go but CI rejected them for maybe political reasons, I think BR picked it up for cheap. BA also send their DC10 to JFK, ATL, SAN and PHX (1996).
Live life to max!!!
 
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:45 pm

cedarjet wrote:
Some fantastic responses here. Very interesting! I'd forgotten about Airtours. Follow-up question -- anyone know why British Caledonian didn't buy Tristars, given they were powered by British-built Rolls-Royce engines? I'm going to go with range.


BCAL decided what was best for the business rather than take into account political sensitivities. However, I suspect the range of the DC10-30 was the key factor. Maybe they saw the relatively new RB211’s as too risky for a small airline, given the development history.
 
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:05 pm

cedarjet wrote:
Some fantastic responses here. Very interesting! I'd forgotten about Airtours. Follow-up question -- anyone know why British Caledonian didn't buy Tristars, given they were powered by British-built Rolls-Royce engines? I'm going to go with range, but still surprising. I have BCal chairman Sir Adam Thomson's memoir here and the words Rolls, Royce, and Lockheed do not appear on a single one of its 589 pages.

Cointrin330 wrote:
Does anyone recall what US cities were serviced with the BA DC10? I seem to recall IAH, DFW, TPA, and a few other LGW-originating flights. I don't remember if the DC10 ever flew out of LHR. I am pretty certain the L1011s though did.

Also Atlanta, San Juan PR, and some Caribbean stuff. A buddy of mine who is now a type rating examiner on the 777 at BA flew the DC-10 early in his career as a young FO. I asked him if he liked flying the DC-10. He said it was a delight to fly, because it mostly flew to beaches!


For many years, British Caledonian have searched for a wide-body airplane which was capable to replace the Boeing 707 jetliner. They considered both the Boeing 747–100 / 747–200B, the McDonnell Douglas DC-10–10 / DC-10-30 and Lockheed Tristar variants.
In 1976, British Caledonian chose the DC-10 above the other airplanes, placing a order for 10 DC-10 Series 30 airplanes — with General Electric CF6–50C engines and intercontinental range capability of 10,000 km — and three DC-10 Series 10 airplanes — with lower thrust General Electric CF6–6 engines, which were used to intra-Europe flights and charters because of the lack of range — those destinated for BCA Charter / CalAir’s fleet. In fact, those were the only European companies to operate the Series 10 of the DC-10.
Initially the 747 was found to be too large and the Tristars lacked range (and were operated by the enemy : BA)
In 1981, BCal opened a new engine overhaul plant at Prestwick Airport near Glasgow in Scotland.The new engine overhaul plant was owned and run by Caledonian Airmotive, a dedicated, wholly owned. subsidiary of the airline, which had been set up with technical support from GE.
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:19 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
I am pretty certain the L1011s though did.


I can confirm a BA L-1011 on PIT-PHL-LHR in 1989.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:31 pm

747classic wrote:
In 1976, British Caledonian chose the DC-10 above the other airplanes, placing a order for 10 DC-10 Series 30 airplanes — with General Electric CF6–50C engines and intercontinental range capability of 10,000 km — and three DC-10 Series 10 airplanes — with lower thrust General Electric CF6–6 engines, which were used to intra-Europe flights and charters because of the lack of range — those destinated for BCA Charter / CalAir’s fleet. In fact, those were the only European companies to operate the Series 10 of the DC-10.


I don't remember BCal ever ordering DC-10 Series 10. Those you quote as being destined for BCA were in fact a pair (not three) second-hand former Laker Airways (G-BJZD & E). After BCA became Cal-Air, a third Series 10 joined the pair after serving with American Trans Air, and before that with Laker Airways (G-BELO). Although only during the second half of the '80s, another European airline operated Series 10, i.e. Scanair. Those later moved to Premiair, then Airtours, then MyTravel.
Last edited by SpaceshipDC10 on Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
n729pa
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:35 pm

I once saw a BA DC10 (G-MULL i think, got some pics of it) at LHR, but assuming that was to maintenance reasons or something, certainly don't remember any services ex-LHR with them though.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:20 pm

cedarjet wrote:
I'm thinking about UK airlines who have operated the DC-10.
I was hoping to illustrate this post with a few photos from the database but I cannot figure out the search engine for love nor money.

I can give general pointers how to operate the search engine if you wish, but the specific enquiry you desire is beyond any measure I can think of.

Best options are
<select; TYPE> = DC-10 (all models)

then either
<sort by; REGISTRATION / ASC>
which will give you over 21,000 photos, but you can jump to page 118 where the British registered birds start, and slog through them from there.
https://www.airliners.net/search?aircra ... l&page=118

or
<select; LOCATION> = United Kingdom
which will give you just over 2000 photos, including hundreds of non-UK DC-10s that visited that country.

Neither option is perfect, but if you are like myself, a trawl through the photo database can be a pleasant way to waste a few hours on a Sunday. :lol:

Here are some gems to be going on with...
LGW in 1981 with, five and seven DC-10s from various operators.,

Two photos, each with nine UK DC-10s! (in the first shot, there are six in view, plus three more BCal lined up out of shot)


An unscheduled engine change for BCal, and the end for Laker Airways, Feb 1982
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:01 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
747classic wrote:
In 1976, British Caledonian chose the DC-10 above the other airplanes, placing a order for 10 DC-10 Series 30 airplanes — with General Electric CF6–50C engines and intercontinental range capability of 10,000 km — and three DC-10 Series 10 airplanes — with lower thrust General Electric CF6–6 engines, which were used to intra-Europe flights and charters because of the lack of range — those destinated for BCA Charter / CalAir’s fleet. In fact, those were the only European companies to operate the Series 10 of the DC-10.


I don't remember BCal ever ordering DC-10 Series 10. Those you quote as being destined for BCA were in fact a pair (not three) second-hand former Laker Airways (G-BJZD & E). After BCA became Cal-Air, a third Series 10 joined the pair after serving with American Trans Air, and before that with Laker Airways (G-BELO). Although only during the second half of the '80s, another European airline operated Series 10, i.e. Scanair. Those later moved to Premiair, then Airtours, then MyTravel.


Just to dot the i's and cross the t's...

G-GFAL with Laker (briefly), before it became G-BJZD


G-GSKY with Laker (briefly), before it became G-BJZE


G-BELO, in earlier guise as N10DC (*), and some years later with Laker, before it eventually became G-GCAL


(*) This (second) incarnation of N10DC has always been a mystery to me. :scratchchin:
It remained with Douglas (McD) for SEVEN YEARS, but there is only one photo on the database, or indeed anywhere (?)
Where did they hide it for those years?? And why?
Note this is line no.2 (c/n 46501), not the "other" N10DC which was the prototype (c/n 46500), and which quickly became N101AA.
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:44 pm

American 767 wrote:
All BA DC-10s came from BCal. I don't think BA would have ever flown those if they didn't merge with BCal.


Correct about all owned DC10s coming from BCal, but not all BA DC10s operations were with British aircraft and not all were from Gatwick.

In the four years from May 1975 to April 1979, BA’s first DC10 experience was with Air New Zealand aircraft. There was a “swap” at Los Angeles, with BA flight and cabin crews taking over the trans Atlantic leg of the Auckland- London flights.

The DC10 lease filled a gap in aircraft capability. At the time the 747 was too big for BA’s LAX route and their Tristars lacked the range to serve LHR-LAX, but they needed wide body aircraft to be competitive. Although the 747s were deployed on LHR-LAX in 1978, BA saw the value of the DC10’s performance. BA deployed the Kiwi DC10s to Miami and Montreal, plus a twice weekly LAX service to feed the aircraft back into Air NZ’s Pacific network.

Air NZ had a fleet of 8 DC10s and up to 3 at any one time flew for BA.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:06 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
(*) This (second) incarnation of N10DC has always been a mystery to me. :scratchchin:
It remained with Douglas (McD) for SEVEN YEARS, but there is only one photo on the database, or indeed anywhere (?)
Where did they hide it for those years?? And why?
Note this is line no.2 (c/n 46501), not the "other" N10DC which was the prototype (c/n 46500), and which quickly became N101AA.


Here's another picture of it. https://twitter.com/MaxK_J/status/11653 ... 76/photo/1

I suspect it was stored at Yuma after all the testings were done. I believe I have seen a picture of still in AA livery and still with the Astroliner title instead of the new DC-10 Luxury Liner titles.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:24 pm

cedarjet wrote:
Some fantastic responses here. Very interesting! I'd forgotten about Airtours. Follow-up question -- anyone know why British Caledonian didn't buy Tristars, given they were powered by British-built Rolls-Royce engines? I'm going to go with range, but still surprising. I have BCal chairman Sir Adam Thomson's memoir here and the words Rolls, Royce, and Lockheed do not appear on a single one of its 589 pages.!


By the time BCal ordered the DC-10-30s, the only aircraft that could do more or less the same job as a DC-10, be it on range or size, was the 74L. Only a few years later DL would upgrade some of their L1011-1 to -250 that would give the L10 a range comparable to the DC-10-30, aside from the shorter -500.
 
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:36 pm

.
 
Shrewfly
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:10 pm

I might be imagining this, but I think Flying Colours operated the DC10, though it may have been a lease.

Vaguely remember seeing it in a magazine, in the days when FCL pretty much were just a 757 operator
 
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:31 am

On the cargo side, you also have DAS Air Cargo, who operated out of LGW and had maintenance facilities in MSE. Their aircraft were registered in Uganda and the US, the MD spent most of his time in DR Congo, they had routes all over the place (mostly between Africa and Europe), but I understand the company was actually run out of Crawley the UK and it was in the UK that administrators were ultimately appointed when they failed in 2007. The father of one of my friends flew for them, it was apparently a very 'interesting' operation.

B757236GT wrote:
After leaving UK service they were stored at Kemble before all three were picked up and flown to South Africa for Executive Aero Space. I dont believe they so much if any use although they survived another 10 or so years before being scrapped. The DC-10-30 (G-BYDA) wasnt so lucky being scrapped at Kemble.


They spent many months in storage at EXT too. Somewhere I have a bunch of photographs, although you could even see them clearly from the M5 back then.

Crosswind wrote:
Excalibur never actually operated the DC-10, which is why you can’t find a photo of one. They’d planned to operate a pair for the summer 1996 season, returned their A320 fleet to lessors to concentrate on long-haul as they had been bought by Globespan Holidays. There were problems with the aircraft they had intended to source, so were forced to wet lease a single DC-10 from Skyjet registered V2-LEH. It remained operated by Skyjet on their AOC, in full Skyjet livery with no titles. Problems with that aircraft, and the fact they’d sold a programme for 2 DC-10s saw the airlines demise early in the summer.


Regards
CROSSWIND

Fond(ish) memory of flying V2-LEH as a child. To this day it was one of the most aggressive take-offs I have ever experienced; firing out of Gatwick and reaching cruise way before we reached the south coast... easyJet A319s eat your heart out! Downside was that my Nan required emergency oxygen as the pressurisation was playing up, and the crew didn't speak more than cursory English. Major problems on return, meaning we ended up on an Air Atlanta L1011 instead. It was a tough childhood when it came to vacation flights.
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
skipness1E
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:51 am

Shrewfly wrote:
I might be imagining this, but I think Flying Colours operated the DC10, though it may have been a lease.

Vaguely remember seeing it in a magazine, in the days when FCL pretty much were just a 757 operator

They supplied cabin crew for British Airways who flew DC10s and later B777s in high density config out of Gatters under the AML (Asset Management Ltd) program. They were BA machines flown by BA flight deck though, often reported as op by Flying Colours.
Hell am I making that up? Were AML B777 era only? I am doubting myself here. FCL did fly two DC10s once they became JMC, G-LYON and G-GOKT of Caledonian, the two that never flew with BA.
 
RR757
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:10 am

My last DC-10 flight was with the short-lived JMC Airlines - Cancun to London Gatwick (with a stop-off in Glasgow!) Someone here took a pic of my plane at Glasgow whilst we waiting to refuel. (See link) I remember the date as it was my birthday. Most of the crew were ex British Caledonian. The plane wasn’t in the best shape. Cabin panels missing, wiring looms exposed. And delayed 16 hours with the APU/Air Con not working. Wasn’t the best flight I had!

https://www.airliners.net/photo/JMC-Air ... oyHg%3D%3D
 
crownvic
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:32 am

TUGMASTER wrote:
JerseyFlyer wrote:
Air Europe ordered (more likely LoI'd in today's terminology) DC-10s that would have been RB211 powered, but these were never produced.


Pretty sure those orders were for MD11’s, not DC10’s.


That is correct. They were MD-11s and not DC-10s and were to be RR powered, but the RR powered MD-11 never happened. There are renderings on a google search, but I have never understood how to copy and paste anything to this site. The Belgian side of Air Europe did fly DC-10s painted in full colors, but they were on the Belgian register.
 
armadillomaster
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:48 am

I flew on the Monarch DC10 and will always remember that. Manchester to Antalya.

The food and service were excellent.
 
by738
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:58 am

skipness1E wrote:
Shrewfly wrote:
I might be imagining this, but I think Flying Colours operated the DC10, though it may have been a lease.


Think AML was ‘Airline Management Limited’ rather than Asset Management which sounds like a fire sale.

https://www.flightglobal.com/flying-col ... 14.article
“ Florida, starting on 30 March. The route is flown on behalf of BA by its former charter subsidiary, Caledonian Airways, using one of BA's McDonnell Douglas DC-10-30s”
 
Flyingsottsman
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:03 am

I am sure BCAL flew to Los Angeles at one stage, I think I saw a picture of a DC-10 at LAX in BA Colours thinking that had to be an ex BCAL jet.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:02 am

eta unknown wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
Does anyone recall what US cities were serviced with the BA DC10? I seem to recall IAH, DFW, TPA, and a few other LGW-originating flights. I don't remember if the DC10 ever flew out of LHR. I am pretty certain the L1011s though did.

ATL, LAX and JFK (I once flew this sector as one of 8 pax total).
No LHR for the 10's.


Yes, I forgot that the DC10 in BA's Landor Livery flew to JFK (from LGW) post-BCAL. What was interesting was that BCAL flew JFK-LGW using mostly the 747 (out of the Eastern Airlines Terminal) in the 1980s. I wonder what happened to the BCAL 747? Was it absorbed into BA or did it end up with another operator?
 
jfk777
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:22 am

The British Airways DC-10-30 always flew from Gatwick to the old BCal routes in the USA south. Atlanta, Houston and DFW. Bcal later on picked up the old Laker routes to LAX & JFK from LGW too. Hong Kong via Dubai was also flown daily.
 
jmc757
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:49 am

Crosswind wrote:
cedarjet wrote:
I'm thinking about UK airlines who have operated the DC-10. I've got British Caledonian, British Airways, Laker Airways, Excalibur, Novair, and the sole Monarch one that's now in Manchester. Who have I forgotten, if any, and do you have any interesting stories about the DC-10 on the British register? I was hoping to illustrate this post with a few photos from the database but I cannot figure out the search engine for love nor money. Was hoping to find an Excalibur one, I know they had a pretty bad experience with the type. Cheers!


Excalibur never actually operated the DC-10, which is why you can’t find a photo of one. They’d planned to operate a pair for the summer 1996 season, returned their A320 fleet to lessors to concentrate on long-haul as they had been bought by Globespan Holidays. There were problems with the aircraft they had intended to source, so were forced to wet lease a single DC-10 from Skyjet registered V2-LEH. It remained operated by Skyjet on their AOC, in full Skyjet livery with no titles. Problems with that aircraft, and the fact they’d sold a programme for 2 DC-10s saw the airlines demise early in the summer.


Regards
CROSSWIND


V2-LEH was operated by some Excalibur crews, both cabin and flight deck. Whether or not they were supplemented by Skyjet crews I'm not sure, the aircraft never got a G- registration, so as you say I don't think it ever got on the EXC AOC. The aircraft was a shed, probably the best they could get their hands on short notice, but it was less than reliable, and made it into the UK national papers on more than one occasion.

As you say, having sold a 2 x DC10 programme, and only sourcing one unreliable wet-lease, the cost of last minute sub-chartering in the summer of 1996 is what finished Excalibur. Laker, Air Atlanta, Tower Air and Lauda all operated on Excalibur Orlando flights which had been sold by Globespan. At one point a Lauda 767 was operating at Manchester for them, a nice aircraft for the EXC pax, only problem is it didn't have as many seats as the DC10, so the Lauda would depart with most of the passengers, and the rest would be accommodated on other airlines.

Globespan repeated their mistake of attempting a a long haul operation with a successful short haul airline with Flyglobespan in the late 2000's.
 
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eta unknown
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:54 am

747classic wrote:
cedarjet wrote:
Some fantastic responses here. Very interesting! I'd forgotten about Airtours. Follow-up question -- anyone know why British Caledonian didn't buy Tristars, given they were powered by British-built Rolls-Royce engines? I'm going to go with range, but still surprising. I have BCal chairman Sir Adam Thomson's memoir here and the words Rolls, Royce, and Lockheed do not appear on a single one of its 589 pages.

Cointrin330 wrote:
Does anyone recall what US cities were serviced with the BA DC10? I seem to recall IAH, DFW, TPA, and a few other LGW-originating flights. I don't remember if the DC10 ever flew out of LHR. I am pretty certain the L1011s though did.

Also Atlanta, San Juan PR, and some Caribbean stuff. A buddy of mine who is now a type rating examiner on the 777 at BA flew the DC-10 early in his career as a young FO. I asked him if he liked flying the DC-10. He said it was a delight to fly, because it mostly flew to beaches!


For many years, British Caledonian have searched for a wide-body airplane which was capable to replace the Boeing 707 jetliner. They considered both the Boeing 747–100 / 747–200B, the McDonnell Douglas DC-10–10 / DC-10-30 and Lockheed Tristar variants.
In 1976, British Caledonian chose the DC-10 above the other airplanes, placing a order for 10 DC-10 Series 30 airplanes — with General Electric CF6–50C engines and intercontinental range capability of 10,000 km — and three DC-10 Series 10 airplanes — with lower thrust General Electric CF6–6 engines, which were used to intra-Europe flights and charters because of the lack of range — those destinated for BCA Charter / CalAir’s fleet. In fact, those were the only European companies to operate the Series 10 of the DC-10.
Initially the 747 was found to be too large and the Tristars lacked range (and were operated by the enemy : BA)
In 1981, BCal opened a new engine overhaul plant at Prestwick Airport near Glasgow in Scotland.The new engine overhaul plant was owned and run by Caledonian Airmotive, a dedicated, wholly owned. subsidiary of the airline, which had been set up with technical support from GE.

THY operated the series 10.
 
B757236GT
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:07 pm

I remember the Skyjet/Excalibur lease. 24-36 hour delays were pretty common to the extent i think World were subleased in on occasion to cover for Skyjet as it was a basket case for reliability. Interestingly the frame in question later got picked up by Continental at 24 years of age and got put back into service and ran for another few years quite happily.

There is also an interesting video on YouTube showing the departure of one of the Mytravel DC-10s from Kemble. The low pass after departure was something else with and aircraft that size.
 
Pottok
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:25 pm

Which was the destinations where BCAL DC 10-10 were used ?
 
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DL_Mech
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:23 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
Here's another picture of it. https://twitter.com/MaxK_J/status/11653 ... 76/photo/1

I suspect it was stored at Yuma after all the testings were done. I believe I have seen a picture of still in AA livery and still with the Astroliner title instead of the new DC-10 Luxury Liner titles.


Similar to L-1011 N1031L (later N301EA) that never flew for TWA, that was a AA DC-10 that never flew for AA. I assume for airshow purposes?

Image

From: http://jonproctor.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/TriStart-top-header-final-860x523.jpg
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.

Former AMT on A220,A310,A319/20/21,A330,A350,B707,B717,B727,B737,B747,B757,B767,B777,DC-9,DC-10,L-1011,
MD-80/90,MD-11
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:28 pm

Pottok wrote:
Which was the destinations where BCAL DC 10-10 were used ?


Where Laker used to send them in Europe.

Out of the six DC-10-10s delivered to Laker, the last two, received in 1979, got a colourful UK life between then and 1990.

G-GFAL / G-BJZD



G-GSKY / G-BJZE


 
by738
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:36 pm

The BCA Charter with the subtle different livery changes was a rare beast to see....
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:57 pm

These were the 10s flown by KT over the years.





Two moved to the new airline.

 
jmc757
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:14 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
Two moved to the new airline.




It always seemed a little surprising they went to the effort to paint the two DC-10s into the full JMC livery. They knew they'd only operate for 1 year as the 2 A330s that replaced them were on the way (a Flying Colours order I think?) I suppose because of the big JMC launch they wanted everything "on brand."
Last edited by jmc757 on Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
RvA
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Re: British operators of the DC-10

Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:16 pm

Great pictures in this thread!

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