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jetbluefan1
Topic Author
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UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:47 pm

CNBC is reporting that United is likely to re-enter JFK within the next year.

Some on this forum have speculated that this would likely occur given that the reduction in traffic, and the expected slow recovery, have made slots more readily available. Additionally, UA cannot be happy with B6 setting up a focus city across the river at EWR... :box:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/29/united- ... sence.html
 
ORD Boy 2
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:51 pm

Do it...
And from LAX, SFO, DEN, IAH, IAD and ORD...
 
Scarebus34
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:52 pm

I recommend this remain it's own thread and not combined with the other fleet/network thread.

LAX/SFO will likely be the first cities served. I don't see much of a need to serve it from every hub. What *A carriers are at JFK that don't serve EWR, any?
 
jetmatt777
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:55 pm

This appears to be the opportunity Kirby has been waiting for. He is on record several times saying they would like to re-enter, but only if the price is right. With carriers looking to dump assets to raise cash, finding a dozen or so slots and some gate space probably isn't too pricey or difficult now. It goes against their plan of not spending money right now, but from an investment point of view this is a good decision. Hopefully it's true.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:58 pm

I suspect what AS had at JFK pre-COVID19 will not return or be cut permanently when it comes to LAX/SFO. AS can rely on AA. That eliminates one competitor. UA would also do well to market any transcons out of JFK as a way to connect on the best network among the US carriers to Asia and Oceania.
Last edited by Cointrin330 on Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Weatherwatcher1
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:59 pm

ORD Boy 2 wrote:
Do it...
And from LAX, SFO, DEN, IAH, IAD and ORD...


JFK-ORD hasn’t ever worked out for anyone. Given the LGA presence, I’m not sure DEN or IAH would work that well either
 
Cointrin330
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:01 pm

ORD Boy 2 wrote:
Do it...
And from LAX, SFO, DEN, IAH, IAD and ORD...


ORD unlikely. It would be a one way feeder route. JFK-IAD on UA existed mainly because UA had no NY gateway to Europe (pre merger). The JFK market to Europe is not what UA is going after there (it has EWR for that).
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:01 pm

I wonder if this will spew a reaction from AA, B6 or DL at EWR. Even during these times it’s important to maintain a strong offering for business clients. I could definitely see AA and DL start/resume EWR-LAX.
 
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LotsaRunway
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:05 pm

12 times a day to EWR on RJs!!!! :stirthepot:
 
Cointrin330
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:14 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
I wonder if this will spew a reaction from AA, B6 or DL at EWR. Even during these times it’s important to maintain a strong offering for business clients. I could definitely see AA and DL start/resume EWR-LAX.


Doubt AA will re-enter EWR to LAX. AA has signaled long ago all it cares about in the NY Area are its corporate contracts and not going head to head with UA (and now B6) in the EWR Transcon market.
 
fun2fly
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:19 pm

Let the guessing begin. 737-10 service with Lie Flat to 6x SFO, 5x LAX. Mainline to 3x IAH, 3x DEN. No IAD, EWR. Not sure about ORD.

EWR LAX and SFO will be remain lie flat 757/767/787 until enough 737-10 a/c arrive.
 
Lootess
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:24 pm

UA should have never left JFK in the first place, but with Kirby running the show now they are going to be more aggressive than last time.
 
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United787
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:27 pm

Forgive me as I am not from the NYC area. But what advantage does JFK have over LGA besides the ability to fly to the west coast (LAX and SFO)? I assume the catchment area for JFK and LGA are similar...
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:31 pm

United787 wrote:
Forgive me as I am not from the NYC area. But what advantage does JFK have over LGA besides the ability to fly to the west coast (LAX and SFO)? I assume the catchment area for JFK and LGA are similar...


None.
 
airboss787
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:40 pm

Looking forward to seeing UA at JFK! Would it make sense for them to tie up with Blade or someone to provide connections to EWR and then sell through flights that require a short helicopter ride from JFK to EWR? Something like a DEN-JFK-EWR-XXX? I know flying DEN-EWR would make most sense of course, but for whatever reason, people may find a connection like that useful as well.
Star Alliance Gold
 
MIflyer12
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:44 pm

United787 wrote:
Forgive me as I am not from the NYC area. But what advantage does JFK have over LGA besides the ability to fly to the west coast (LAX and SFO)? I assume the catchment area for JFK and LGA are similar...


Those catchments are similar to that for EWR but some travelers do find one airport easier than the other due to the insufferability of NYC traffic and peculiarities of public transport. UA out of JFK will certainly, in part, be competing with its own EWR flights. JFK has a lot more domestic O&D than EWR so it's useful to many.
 
catiii
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:46 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
I wonder if this will spew a reaction from AA, B6 or DL at EWR. Even during these times it’s important to maintain a strong offering for business clients. I could definitely see AA and DL start/resume EWR-LAX.


It IS a reaction to B6 in EWR, and the B6/AA northeast alliance.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:47 pm

You beat me to it!

I imagine it would be an important CRJ-550 spoke with frequent service to IAD/ORD and maybe twice daily to IAH/DEN and shuttle service to LAX/SFO.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
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jaybird
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:47 pm

And where are they going to get gates?
 
catiii
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:47 pm

airboss787 wrote:
Looking forward to seeing UA at JFK! Would it make sense for them to tie up with Blade or someone to provide connections to EWR and then sell through flights that require a short helicopter ride from JFK to EWR? Something like a DEN-JFK-EWR-XXX? I know flying DEN-EWR would make most sense of course, but for whatever reason, people may find a connection like that useful as well.


I believe DL has the exclusive partnership with Blade.
 
DoctorVenkman
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:50 pm

United787 wrote:
Forgive me as I am not from the NYC area. But what advantage does JFK have over LGA besides the ability to fly to the west coast (LAX and SFO)? I assume the catchment area for JFK and LGA are similar...


From my office in downtown Manhattan, my preference goes EWR > LGA >>> JFK, which is entirely based on convenience.

JFK ranks last because it's basically an hour+ trip from anywhere in Manhattan when you take into account transiting through Penn Station and then the air train. By car it can be anywhere from 45 minutes with no traffic to 2+ hours with traffic.

EWR is a lot better if you're traveling when there's not much tunnel traffic, since you can drive there in about 25-30 mins. With tunnel traffic it's easily a 1+ hour trip by car. By public transit it's roughly equal to JFK since you still have to get to Penn Station (or take the PATH and transfer/cab).

LGA is worse than EWR because there's no rail option (yet) so when traffic is bad, so you're stuck driving since there is no alternative. However, it's generally not much longer than an hour to get there in the worst case, so it ranks ahead of JFK IMO.

If you work/live above 14th street, this changes slightly in favor of LGA, since the car ride can be as low as 20 mins from midtown. If you're coming from BK or Queens, JFK starts to become the strong favorite. Similarly if you commute from NJ then EWR is the obvious choice.

So to put that all into the context of UA flying to JFK, I don't think they will attract many new office workers in Manhattan from this, since JFK is equally (or less) convenient than EWR from most spots in Manhattan. However, they will get a fair amount of O&D traffic from people who live in BK, Queens, and further into Long Island, that would never think of traveling to EWR.
Last edited by DoctorVenkman on Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Judge1310
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:52 pm

United787 wrote:
Forgive me as I am not from the NYC area. But what advantage does JFK have over LGA besides the ability to fly to the west coast (LAX and SFO)? I assume the catchment area for JFK and LGA are similar...


JFK is only useful for travellers starting off on all of Long Island (including Bklyn and Queens) and maybe The Bronx. Unfortunately, anyone living in the BX and northward all have to cross a bridge and/or tunnel to get to any of the international airports in NYC. A saving grace in these times is that traffic volume is way down, thus taking the Van Wyck and the Grand Central Pkwy aren't as terrible as before.
 
CALMSP
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:59 pm

Lootess wrote:
UA should have never left JFK in the first place, but with Kirby running the show now they are going to be more aggressive than last time.



So UA should have stayed at JFK and burn through money? Why?
 
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sjones1975
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:01 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
UA would also do well to market any transcons out of JFK as a way to connect on the best network among the US carriers to Asia and Oceania.


Under that strategy (at least the Asia part), United would be chasing the premium NY business community. But I'd think it would be difficult for UA with JFK-SFO/LAX/ORD-Asia to compete with first-tier Asian carriers (KE, NH, etc.) who can fly those New Yorkers nonstop to Asia.
my longest flight in a 757: FRU-ADA-SNN-BWI
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:03 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
United787 wrote:
Forgive me as I am not from the NYC area. But what advantage does JFK have over LGA besides the ability to fly to the west coast (LAX and SFO)? I assume the catchment area for JFK and LGA are similar...


Those catchments are similar to that for EWR but some travelers do find one airport easier than the other due to the insufferability of NYC traffic and peculiarities of public transport. UA out of JFK will certainly, in part, be competing with its own EWR flights. JFK has a lot more domestic O&D than EWR so it's useful to many.


For 2019-

EWR total domestic pax- 32,004,140
JFK total domestic pax- 28,233,791

EWR O&D domestic pax- 24,500,000
JFK O&D domestic pax- 19,790,000
 
Scarebus34
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:06 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
You beat me to it!

I imagine it would be an important CRJ-550 spoke with frequent service to IAD/ORD and maybe twice daily to IAH/DEN and shuttle service to LAX/SFO.

I imagine you're delusional - it's not going to be a sizeable station.
 
Lootess
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:20 pm

CALMSP wrote:
Lootess wrote:
UA should have never left JFK in the first place, but with Kirby running the show now they are going to be more aggressive than last time.



So UA should have stayed at JFK and burn through money? Why?


Delta has made EWR work all these years along with JV partner, VS.

Considering how much Star was at JFK, not being aggressive enough is a way to lose money.
Last edited by Lootess on Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Weatherwatcher1
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:24 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
United787 wrote:
Forgive me as I am not from the NYC area. But what advantage does JFK have over LGA besides the ability to fly to the west coast (LAX and SFO)? I assume the catchment area for JFK and LGA are similar...


None.


There are plenty of areas on Long Island where JFK is preferable to LGA. It is especially true for people wanting to use public transit.
 
CALMSP
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:34 pm

Lootess wrote:
CALMSP wrote:
Lootess wrote:
UA should have never left JFK in the first place, but with Kirby running the show now they are going to be more aggressive than last time.



So UA should have stayed at JFK and burn through money? Why?


Delta has made EWR work all these years along with JV partner, VS.

Considering how much Star was at JFK, not being aggressive enough is a way to lose money.


ok, so no real reason why, just that DL and VS are at both airports.
 
N965UW
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:39 pm

fun2fly wrote:
Let the guessing begin. 737-10 service with Lie Flat to 6x SFO, 5x LAX. Mainline to 3x IAH, 3x DEN. No IAD, EWR. Not sure about ORD.

EWR LAX and SFO will be remain lie flat 757/767/787 until enough 737-10 a/c arrive.


Until the 737-10 comes online (which at this rate won't be in 2021), UA would most likely start with running 752s to LAX and SFO, like they did before pulling out of JFK (except the -222s likely aren't coming back and they'll use -224s, which are a slightly different product). I wouldn't be surprised if they end up running 739ERs either, especially as the sun starts to set on the 757 and if 737 MAX issues continue. AS already runs them JFK-West coast. EWR alone will continue to sustain the widebodies.

In my view, anywhere else would work only if UA can leverage connecting Star Alliance pax at JFK. Otherwise, LGA works just fine. We also have to keep in mind who UA would get all these slots from.

JFK-EWR would be comical. They could probably make money helping people beat rush hour traffic :lol:
Flown on: A332 C172 C182 C82R CRJ7 E190 PA38 P28A
Been aboard on ground only: B744F C17 C162 CONC S76 T33
 
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airzim
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:41 pm

sjones1975 wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
UA would also do well to market any transcons out of JFK as a way to connect on the best network among the US carriers to Asia and Oceania.


Under that strategy (at least the Asia part), United would be chasing the premium NY business community. But I'd think it would be difficult for UA with JFK-SFO/LAX/ORD-Asia to compete with first-tier Asian carriers (KE, NH, etc.) who can fly those New Yorkers nonstop to Asia.


Or United could carry that traffic itself from EWR-PEK/PVG/HKG/DEL/BOM/HND/NRT). Or with their JV partner NH.

Honestly with flight legs at those distances, going to EWR over JFK at that time of the day (generally late morning early afternoon) the traffic is similar.

I'll say it again, there's only one airline in NY that can take you nonstop to nearly all major business markets in the US, Europe, South America, and Asia nonstop. That's United. That's very powerful for corporate business contracts.
 
jayunited
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:45 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
I wonder if this will spew a reaction from AA, B6 or DL at EWR. Even during these times it’s important to maintain a strong offering for business clients. I could definitely see AA and DL start/resume EWR-LAX.



I doubt AA would enter EWR-LAX market they just teamed up with B6.

As far as UA is concerned don't think UA would serve ORD, IAD, IAH, or DEN from JFK. It simply makes no sense when UA already serves EWR, and LGA from these airports and EWR will remain UA main TATL gateway out of New York City.

If UA does in fact return to JFK I can see them flying SFO, LAX, for sure. If COVID had not happened, UA was scheduled to increase EWR-LHR to 6x daily. If UA is unable to secure any additional LHR slots I can see them reducing EWR-LHR to 4x daily (1x daily a.m. departure, 3x daily p.m. departures) and 2x daily JFK-LHR (both p.m. departures).

UA might try to capture more O&D traffic with 1x daily or 2x daily JFK-SAN/SEA/LAS. Staying with the O&D traffic UA might even try JFK-Caribbean.
 
N757ST
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:47 pm

Judge1310 wrote:
United787 wrote:
Forgive me as I am not from the NYC area. But what advantage does JFK have over LGA besides the ability to fly to the west coast (LAX and SFO)? I assume the catchment area for JFK and LGA are similar...


JFK is only useful for travellers starting off on all of Long Island (including Bklyn and Queens) and maybe The Bronx. Unfortunately, anyone living in the BX and northward all have to cross a bridge and/or tunnel to get to any of the international airports in NYC. A saving grace in these times is that traffic volume is way down, thus taking the Van Wyck and the Grand Central Pkwy aren't as terrible as before.



I don't agree. If you're on the east side and are flying to an out of perimeter airport JFK is very accessible via the E train, from the west side obviously via the LIRR. Yes, in a car EWR can be quicker, but then you're dealing with traffic which who knows what that will be like post COVID. Pre-Covid EWR was much more delay prone then JFK as well.
 
tphuang
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:55 pm

It'd be interesting to see where they fly out of. Aside from T1, there is no obvious place for them to go now that T7 have been shutdown for a while. There are so real restrictions on how many flights UA can operate out of T1 even if they can get the slots. It's also not competitive for them to be less than 6x on SFO/LAX. So I think if they can get around 12 to 15 slots, then 6x to SFO, 6x LAX, 1x IAH/DEN might work here.

I do fully expect DL to enter EWR-LAX/SEA if this happens.
 
SurlyBonds
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:03 pm

fun2fly wrote:
Let the guessing begin. 737-10 service with Lie Flat to 6x SFO, 5x LAX. Mainline to 3x IAH, 3x DEN. No IAD, EWR. Not sure about ORD.

EWR LAX and SFO will be remain lie flat 757/767/787 until enough 737-10 a/c arrive.


No 737sMAX. I fly these routes regularly and would rather go to JFK than EWR, but I will not fly on a 737MAX until they have been in service for 2 years without incident,
 
codc10
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:12 pm

jayunited wrote:
If UA does in fact return to JFK I can see them flying SFO, LAX, for sure. If COVID had not happened, UA was scheduled to increase EWR-LHR to 6x daily.


Pre-COVID, it was already year-round 6x. The plan was actually to go to 7x EWR-LHR, with an 11pm eastbound and 3pm westbound, using the former Air New Zealand slots. UA988/989 were the flight numbers, but who knows if/when that will happen.
 
United857
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:13 pm

tphuang wrote:
It'd be interesting to see where they fly out of. Aside from T1, there is no obvious place for them to go now that T7 have been shutdown for a while. There are so real restrictions on how many flights UA can operate out of T1 even if they can get the slots. It's also not competitive for them to be less than 6x on SFO/LAX. So I think if they can get around 12 to 15 slots, then 6x to SFO, 6x LAX, 1x IAH/DEN might work here.

I do fully expect DL to enter EWR-LAX/SEA if this happens.

Forget about T1. It’s not possible simply because there’s no domestic baggage claim there. All the baggage carousels are in the customs hall.
A319 A320 A321 A333 A343 A346 A388 B712 B733 B737 B738 B739 B744 B748 B752 B764 B772 B77L B77W B788 B789 CRJ2 E145 E75S E75L E190 MD88 MD90
AA AC B6 CA CX CZ DL EK FM HU JL KA LH LX MU NH NK TK UA US
 
Vctony
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:13 pm

United787 wrote:
Forgive me as I am not from the NYC area. But what advantage does JFK have over LGA besides the ability to fly to the west coast (LAX and SFO)? I assume the catchment area for JFK and LGA are similar...


JFK has the best access to transit of the 3 NYC airports. As a tourist I love being able to take a train into the city (o all over Long Island) from JFK (also possible but not as many train options from EWR and not possible at all from LGA).
 
CALMSP
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:16 pm

Vctony wrote:
United787 wrote:
Forgive me as I am not from the NYC area. But what advantage does JFK have over LGA besides the ability to fly to the west coast (LAX and SFO)? I assume the catchment area for JFK and LGA are similar...


JFK has the best access to transit of the 3 NYC airports. As a tourist I love being able to take a train into the city (o all over Long Island) from JFK (also possible but not as many train options from EWR and not possible at all from LGA).


how many more options of trains does JFK have over EWR? Am I missing something? AirTrain to rail that takes you to Manhattan.
 
RvA
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:16 pm

Is this confirmed yet or is this just speculation? The opening post seems to suggest something *may* happen which makes me think it’s a rumour only at this point?
 
Max Q
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:17 pm

Very good move and about time, it’s a major selling point to offer service to all three major airports in NY
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
DoctorVenkman
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:24 pm

CALMSP wrote:
Vctony wrote:
United787 wrote:
Forgive me as I am not from the NYC area. But what advantage does JFK have over LGA besides the ability to fly to the west coast (LAX and SFO)? I assume the catchment area for JFK and LGA are similar...


JFK has the best access to transit of the 3 NYC airports. As a tourist I love being able to take a train into the city (o all over Long Island) from JFK (also possible but not as many train options from EWR and not possible at all from LGA).


how many more options of trains does JFK have over EWR? Am I missing something? AirTrain to rail that takes you to Manhattan.


JFK also has access to the A, E and J subway trains in addition to the LIRR. Very convenient if you're going somewhere in BK or Queens. If you're going to Manhattan the LIRR is generally better.

EWR only has the NJ Transit into Penn Station as a direct rail option. If you want to get on the PATH you need to transfer at Newark Penn Station.
Last edited by DoctorVenkman on Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
halrudy
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:25 pm

Feels like we are going back in time to the 90s especially if UA starts LHR. Runnings 737-900ERs would not be a competitive product hence why its not working well for AS for corporate customers. Will be interesting to see which terminal they wind up in. Can really only see T4 which DL will have a conniption over. Plus what about all those ads UA ran about how long it takes to get to JFK from NYC vs EWR!!
 
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Boeing757100
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:26 pm

FINALLY. When I found that UA doesn't serve JFK, I was startled. I and my little kid mind thought that all international airlines served JFK and also every US airline. I finally realized it doesn't work that way, and that UA had a huge EWR hub, so there was no need for JFK.
The 757-MAX is happening tomorrow.
 
codc10
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:27 pm

halrudy wrote:
Runnings 737-900ERs would not be a competitive product hence why its not working well for AS for corporate customers.


AS F on the transcons is basically a premium economy seat... NYC-LAX/SFO J standard is a flat bed seat. Without it, AS is chasing lower-yield traffic.

Realistically, UA will either be back in T7, or common-use gates in T4A. My bet would be T4. I don't know if any airlines besides EK are using T4A, for now, and it's going to be a long time before those gates are busy again.
Last edited by codc10 on Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
CALMSP
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:30 pm

halrudy wrote:
Feels like we are going back in time to the 90s especially if UA starts LHR. Runnings 737-900ERs would not be a competitive product hence why its not working well for AS for corporate customers. Will be interesting to see which terminal they wind up in. Can really only see T4 which DL will have a conniption over. Plus what about all those ads UA ran about how long it takes to get to JFK from NYC vs EWR!!


wouldn't that be something.......take that 6th EWR-LHR and throw in a 1x JFK route.
 
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NWAESC
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:50 pm

Scarebus34 wrote:
I recommend this remain it's own thread and not combined with the other fleet/network thread.


Yes please.

With AA ceding a lot of ground in NYC, UA must smell blood in the water.
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Irehdna
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:53 pm

Interesting move IMO. One thing to note is that JFK is by far the most convenient to Nassau and Suffolk. Jamaica is a huge LIRR stop and has AirTrain to JFK. (Just as EWR is a 1 hr Amtrak ride from Philly or Stamford.) Many people forget about the "other sides" of the metro area, beyond EWR/JFK from a Manhattan POV.

I don't see TATL from JFK however.
 
dampfnudel
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:58 pm

United787 wrote:
Forgive me as I am not from the NYC area. But what advantage does JFK have over LGA besides the ability to fly to the west coast (LAX and SFO)? I assume the catchment area for JFK and LGA are similar...

Some people find it a little easier to get to JFK because either they live closer or they use the AirTrain. Another reason people favor JFK could be that during inclement weather, you might have a better chance of getting off the ground or being allowed to land at Kennedy due to longer runways. Also new terminal development began much earlier at JFK than LGA so the terminal experience was often better at JFK until recently.
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airzim
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:02 pm

DoctorVenkman wrote:
CALMSP wrote:
Vctony wrote:

JFK has the best access to transit of the 3 NYC airports. As a tourist I love being able to take a train into the city (o all over Long Island) from JFK (also possible but not as many train options from EWR and not possible at all from LGA).


how many more options of trains does JFK have over EWR? Am I missing something? AirTrain to rail that takes you to Manhattan.


JFK also has access to the A, E and J subway trains in addition to the LIRR. Very convenient if you're going somewhere in BK or Queens. If you're going to Manhattan the LIRR is generally better.

EWR only has the NJ Transit into Penn Station as a direct rail option. If you want to get on the PATH you need to transfer at Newark Penn Station.


I'm always curious about the discussion on the rail options from JFK and EWR. I've taken both and they are both terrible. 1) No airport supports a single train option to the City. The connections with bags plus waiting mostly outweigh any benefits. Plus from JFK you need to buy two tickets unless you're getting on the subway with a Metrocard. NJTransit ticket from EWR is a single ticket, but not if you're connecting to the PATH. 2) The wait, if you land at EWR in the middle of the off peak periods, you can wait up till 45 min to an hour in some cases. JFK isn't as bad not still not great. 3) schelping bags through the NY mass transit system generally stinks. I can't see anyone taking the trains unless you're trying to save money. An UberX especially if you're sharing is way faster and likely cheaper.
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