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MIflyer12
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:19 pm

AmericanAir88 wrote:

The outlandish idea I think of: DL and UA JFK/LGA/EWR partnership?


You might have a look a DOJ horizontal merger criteria as applied to airlines. Even if it's not a merger there is zero chance of such a partnership being approved.
 
klwright69
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:37 am

What day is the first flight?
 
chonetsao
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:04 am

AmericanAir88 wrote:
Terminal 5: A jetblue fortress with some spare flights for Hawaiian and Aer Lingus. Id say it would be a challenge especially after the AA deal. Plus UA just wouldn’t fit well. Surprised IcelandAir hasnt gone to T5 yet since it is a B6 partner.

Terminal 8: The hopeful OneWorld Empire. Hopefully AA brings back flights and restores this to its former glory. With AS coming in, it would strengthen the alliance. Plenty of space in this terminal, but I don’t think the Star Alliance is welcome.


Since EI is now in tranatalantic joint venture with AA and BA, it could theoretically move to T8. And Hawaiian could squeeze into T4. That would leave some room in T5 for UA.

AA+B6 is trying for a limited partnership, not JV (kind of like Friends with Benefits rather than marriage). Thus B6 could not careless if UA is in the same terminal or not as long as UA pays rent. Your worry on B6+AA deal's impact on UA potentially move to T5 is overly sensitive.
 
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Polot
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:02 am

chonetsao wrote:
AmericanAir88 wrote:
Terminal 5: A jetblue fortress with some spare flights for Hawaiian and Aer Lingus. Id say it would be a challenge especially after the AA deal. Plus UA just wouldn’t fit well. Surprised IcelandAir hasnt gone to T5 yet since it is a B6 partner.

Terminal 8: The hopeful OneWorld Empire. Hopefully AA brings back flights and restores this to its former glory. With AS coming in, it would strengthen the alliance. Plenty of space in this terminal, but I don’t think the Star Alliance is welcome.


Since EI is now in tranatalantic joint venture with AA and BA, it could theoretically move to T8. And Hawaiian could squeeze into T4. That would leave some room in T5 for UA.

AA+B6 is trying for a limited partnership, not JV (kind of like Friends with Benefits rather than marriage). Thus B6 could not careless if UA is in the same terminal or not as long as UA pays rent. Your worry on B6+AA deal's impact on UA potentially move to T5 is overly sensitive.

HA and B6 are partners, HA won’t move. Doesn’t really matter though, HA is just one flight a day.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:21 am

chonetsao wrote:
AmericanAir88 wrote:
Terminal 5: A jetblue fortress with some spare flights for Hawaiian and Aer Lingus. Id say it would be a challenge especially after the AA deal. Plus UA just wouldn’t fit well. Surprised IcelandAir hasnt gone to T5 yet since it is a B6 partner.

Terminal 8: The hopeful OneWorld Empire. Hopefully AA brings back flights and restores this to its former glory. With AS coming in, it would strengthen the alliance. Plenty of space in this terminal, but I don’t think the Star Alliance is welcome.


Since EI is now in tranatalantic joint venture with AA and BA, it could theoretically move to T8. And Hawaiian could squeeze into T4. That would leave some room in T5 for UA.

AA+B6 is trying for a limited partnership, not JV (kind of like Friends with Benefits rather than marriage). Thus B6 could not careless if UA is in the same terminal or not as long as UA pays rent. Your worry on B6+AA deal's impact on UA potentially move to T5 is overly sensitive.


EI could move to T8, yes, and eventually, it might, even though it has a lounge at T5. HA isn't moving anywhere. They are partners with B6. Could UA move to T5, only if the $ is right and B6 wants to rent the gates out. The likely home of UA at JFK will, until there's a new terminal, is T1, once T7 is shut.
 
tphuang
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:51 am

ContinentalEWR wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
AmericanAir88 wrote:
Terminal 5: A jetblue fortress with some spare flights for Hawaiian and Aer Lingus. Id say it would be a challenge especially after the AA deal. Plus UA just wouldn’t fit well. Surprised IcelandAir hasnt gone to T5 yet since it is a B6 partner.

Terminal 8: The hopeful OneWorld Empire. Hopefully AA brings back flights and restores this to its former glory. With AS coming in, it would strengthen the alliance. Plenty of space in this terminal, but I don’t think the Star Alliance is welcome.


Since EI is now in tranatalantic joint venture with AA and BA, it could theoretically move to T8. And Hawaiian could squeeze into T4. That would leave some room in T5 for UA.

AA+B6 is trying for a limited partnership, not JV (kind of like Friends with Benefits rather than marriage). Thus B6 could not careless if UA is in the same terminal or not as long as UA pays rent. Your worry on B6+AA deal's impact on UA potentially move to T5 is overly sensitive.


EI could move to T8, yes, and eventually, it might, even though it has a lounge at T5. HA isn't moving anywhere. They are partners with B6. Could UA move to T5, only if the $ is right and B6 wants to rent the gates out. The likely home of UA at JFK will, until there's a new terminal, is T1, once T7 is shut.


As I said before, I think B6 would be happy with UA moving into their new combined T5 to T7 section if they can in exchange get the gates they want in the EWR T-1. Aside from that, UA's option will be whatever is left over at T-4 or the new enlarged T-1, but that one might take a while to complete and it will probably be quite expensive.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:54 am

tphuang wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
chonetsao wrote:

Since EI is now in tranatalantic joint venture with AA and BA, it could theoretically move to T8. And Hawaiian could squeeze into T4. That would leave some room in T5 for UA.

AA+B6 is trying for a limited partnership, not JV (kind of like Friends with Benefits rather than marriage). Thus B6 could not careless if UA is in the same terminal or not as long as UA pays rent. Your worry on B6+AA deal's impact on UA potentially move to T5 is overly sensitive.


EI could move to T8, yes, and eventually, it might, even though it has a lounge at T5. HA isn't moving anywhere. They are partners with B6. Could UA move to T5, only if the $ is right and B6 wants to rent the gates out. The likely home of UA at JFK will, until there's a new terminal, is T1, once T7 is shut.


As I said before, I think B6 would be happy with UA moving into their new combined T5 to T7 section if they can in exchange get the gates they want in the EWR T-1. Aside from that, UA's option will be whatever is left over at T-4 or the new enlarged T-1, but that one might take a while to complete and it will probably be quite expensive.


The T5 to T7 new terminal has yet to be built (let alone T7 being torn down) so the concept of UA leasing gates at T5 right now, is essentially moot. Doubtful you'll see UA sub-lease gates at EWR either. The likely future home of UA at JFK post T7 is T1.
 
tphuang
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:33 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
tphuang wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:

EI could move to T8, yes, and eventually, it might, even though it has a lounge at T5. HA isn't moving anywhere. They are partners with B6. Could UA move to T5, only if the $ is right and B6 wants to rent the gates out. The likely home of UA at JFK will, until there's a new terminal, is T1, once T7 is shut.


As I said before, I think B6 would be happy with UA moving into their new combined T5 to T7 section if they can in exchange get the gates they want in the EWR T-1. Aside from that, UA's option will be whatever is left over at T-4 or the new enlarged T-1, but that one might take a while to complete and it will probably be quite expensive.


The T5 to T7 new terminal has yet to be built (let alone T7 being torn down) so the concept of UA leasing gates at T5 right now, is essentially moot. Doubtful you'll see UA sub-lease gates at EWR either. The likely future home of UA at JFK post T7 is T1.


not sub-lease. T-5 is not really gate constrained. They have 29 gates and I doubt JetBlue is getting over 220 flights a day there anytime soon.

A while back, I believe they and PANY/NJ worked something out together where UA is allowed to start its operation at JFK and B6 is allowed to take over some of the unused gates in Terminal A. UA is looking for mores slots/space at JFK and B6 is looking to grab more gates when the new T-1 opens and I have no idea how many how the negotiation for that is coming along.
 
codc10
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Mon Mar 22, 2021 1:28 pm

All gates at the new EWR T1 will be common-use with preferential access to particular airlines based on usage thresholds. JetBlue T5 is more similar to Terminal C at EWR whereby JetBlue is the custodial tenant and calls its own shots in terms of real estate.

In other words, there won't be a scenario in which T1 EWR gates are "subleased" to other airlines (e.g. UA to JetBlue). If United isn't meeting usage criteria consistent with whatever agreement is in place, other airlines will gain access.

As far as UA JFK, as of the moment, and probably through the summer, UA's rather small operation will probably be using excess BA gate space. I'm not sure of the lounge arragement. Long-term, it's either T4 or a redeveloped T1. If the T1 redevelopment gets put on ice, then I feel pretty confident that UA will eventually be in T4.
 
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bluefltspecial
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Mon Mar 22, 2021 2:02 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
tphuang wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:

EI could move to T8, yes, and eventually, it might, even though it has a lounge at T5. HA isn't moving anywhere. They are partners with B6. Could UA move to T5, only if the $ is right and B6 wants to rent the gates out. The likely home of UA at JFK will, until there's a new terminal, is T1, once T7 is shut.


As I said before, I think B6 would be happy with UA moving into their new combined T5 to T7 section if they can in exchange get the gates they want in the EWR T-1. Aside from that, UA's option will be whatever is left over at T-4 or the new enlarged T-1, but that one might take a while to complete and it will probably be quite expensive.


The T5 to T7 new terminal has yet to be built (let alone T7 being torn down) so the concept of UA leasing gates at T5 right now, is essentially moot. Doubtful you'll see UA sub-lease gates at EWR either. The likely future home of UA at JFK post T7 is T1.


Again, no.
T1 operates as an international airport with limited ability to accommodate any domestic ops other than gate/air returns.
With the new T1 on hold, that's not going to change anytime soon.
So, again, it's unlikely that UA's future home at JFK is T1, at least in the next 5-10 years.
Save a horse, ride a Fly-boy....
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Mon Mar 22, 2021 2:36 pm

bluefltspecial wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
tphuang wrote:

As I said before, I think B6 would be happy with UA moving into their new combined T5 to T7 section if they can in exchange get the gates they want in the EWR T-1. Aside from that, UA's option will be whatever is left over at T-4 or the new enlarged T-1, but that one might take a while to complete and it will probably be quite expensive.


The T5 to T7 new terminal has yet to be built (let alone T7 being torn down) so the concept of UA leasing gates at T5 right now, is essentially moot. Doubtful you'll see UA sub-lease gates at EWR either. The likely future home of UA at JFK post T7 is T1.


Again, no.
T1 operates as an international airport with limited ability to accommodate any domestic ops other than gate/air returns.
With the new T1 on hold, that's not going to change anytime soon.
So, again, it's unlikely that UA's future home at JFK is T1, at least in the next 5-10 years.


Again, yes, the potential is very much there. T1 is a ghost town nowadays, compared to the cramped, over-served facility it was pre-pandemic. While traffic levels will eventually rebound, the absence of DY and a few other carriers will give T1 some breathing room. It wouldn't take much to reconfigure two gates for domestic ops. UA has partners at T1 with lounges and would be able to co-locate some cargo ops as well with LH and OS. There are other places for UA to base itself at JFK once T7 closes, and those are most likely T4, T1, or even T2 if it holds on and DL reduces the usage of it and finds more space in T4. The one place I definitely do not see UA operating from is T8. T5 maybe. If EI decamps to T8, then UA could theoretically absorb the Aer Lingus lounge and use 2-3 gates there, but it seems unlikely.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:02 pm

bluefltspecial wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
tphuang wrote:

As I said before, I think B6 would be happy with UA moving into their new combined T5 to T7 section if they can in exchange get the gates they want in the EWR T-1. Aside from that, UA's option will be whatever is left over at T-4 or the new enlarged T-1, but that one might take a while to complete and it will probably be quite expensive.


The T5 to T7 new terminal has yet to be built (let alone T7 being torn down) so the concept of UA leasing gates at T5 right now, is essentially moot. Doubtful you'll see UA sub-lease gates at EWR either. The likely future home of UA at JFK post T7 is T1.


Again, no.
T1 operates as an international airport with limited ability to accommodate any domestic ops other than gate/air returns.
With the new T1 on hold, that's not going to change anytime soon.
So, again, it's unlikely that UA's future home at JFK is T1, at least in the next 5-10 years.



Terminal 1 is not on hold.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:13 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
bluefltspecial wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:

The T5 to T7 new terminal has yet to be built (let alone T7 being torn down) so the concept of UA leasing gates at T5 right now, is essentially moot. Doubtful you'll see UA sub-lease gates at EWR either. The likely future home of UA at JFK post T7 is T1.


Again, no.
T1 operates as an international airport with limited ability to accommodate any domestic ops other than gate/air returns.
With the new T1 on hold, that's not going to change anytime soon.
So, again, it's unlikely that UA's future home at JFK is T1, at least in the next 5-10 years.



Terminal 1 is not on hold.


Exactly. It is not.
 
gq
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:00 pm

T1 in its current form is not a viable option for UA. It takes more than just a reconfiguration of gates. There currently is no domestic baggage claim in T1
 
AmericanAir88
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:48 pm

T4 could be used for UA.

UA can do what Sun Country and Virgin America did. Use the A concourse. Unless T4 is gearing up for potential NK service or something.
 
Runway765
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:23 am

ContinentalEWR wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
bluefltspecial wrote:

Again, no.
T1 operates as an international airport with limited ability to accommodate any domestic ops other than gate/air returns.
With the new T1 on hold, that's not going to change anytime soon.
So, again, it's unlikely that UA's future home at JFK is T1, at least in the next 5-10 years.



Terminal 1 is not on hold.


Exactly. It is not.


Has it been confirmed it’s moving forward?
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:44 am

Could UA takeover T2 since Delta abandoned it?
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:34 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Could UA takeover T2 since Delta abandoned it?



Delta is reopening it before summer
 
catiii
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:14 am

tphuang wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
chonetsao wrote:

Since EI is now in tranatalantic joint venture with AA and BA, it could theoretically move to T8. And Hawaiian could squeeze into T4. That would leave some room in T5 for UA.

AA+B6 is trying for a limited partnership, not JV (kind of like Friends with Benefits rather than marriage). Thus B6 could not careless if UA is in the same terminal or not as long as UA pays rent. Your worry on B6+AA deal's impact on UA potentially move to T5 is overly sensitive.


EI could move to T8, yes, and eventually, it might, even though it has a lounge at T5. HA isn't moving anywhere. They are partners with B6. Could UA move to T5, only if the $ is right and B6 wants to rent the gates out. The likely home of UA at JFK will, until there's a new terminal, is T1, once T7 is shut.


As I said before, I think B6 would be happy with UA moving into their new combined T5 to T7 section if they can in exchange get the gates they want in the EWR T-1. Aside from that, UA's option will be whatever is left over at T-4 or the new enlarged T-1, but that one might take a while to complete and it will probably be quite expensive.


B6’s plans at EWR have zero to do with, and are not at all contingent on anything relating to UA’s plans at JFK. Full stop.
 
PSA727
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Mar 23, 2021 5:49 am

Why do people think that there is an issue with UA at JFK needing to find a home? They will have a total of 4 daily flights out of there. There isn't going to be service to DEN/IAD/IAH/ORD. Those stations all have nonstop flights out of LGA. The only additional destination I could see them add out of JFK is LHR. And that would be primarily to offer London service on a Star Alliance carrier east of the Hudson River. There is enough space for them at T-7 for the next two years while it will still be in operation. They can work out an agreement with AS for their premium passengers and United Club members to use their Board Room there. In fact, I believe AS has an agreement with UA at 3 or 4 airports where AS Board Room members can access the United Club when flying on Alaska. As for needing to be at T-1 to offer connection feed from the other Star carriers. Most of those airlines already fly nonstop to both LAX and SFO. In addition to flying into EWR and/or ORD. I think UA's biggest issue at JFK is not about gate space, but rather obtaining the slot pairs needed to increase any type of service there.
fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
 
LGeneReese
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:48 am

UA3345 IAHJFK 23MAR ferry. Things are happening.
Formerly IAHCSR
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:24 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Could UA takeover T2 since Delta abandoned it?


Delta did not abandon it. They closed it during the pandemic and consolidated all of their flights at T4. However, T2 is scheduled to be demolished as part of the T1 redevelopment plan and be replaced with the footprint of a larger T1 complex, but that's a while away. For the immediate future though, T2 is scheduled to reopen later this year.
Last edited by ContinentalEWR on Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:27 am

PSA727 wrote:
Why do people think that there is an issue with UA at JFK needing to find a home? They will have a total of 4 daily flights out of there. There isn't going to be service to DEN/IAD/IAH/ORD. Those stations all have nonstop flights out of LGA. The only additional destination I could see them add out of JFK is LHR. And that would be primarily to offer London service on a Star Alliance carrier east of the Hudson River. There is enough space for them at T-7 for the next two years while it will still be in operation. They can work out an agreement with AS for their premium passengers and United Club members to use their Board Room there. In fact, I believe AS has an agreement with UA at 3 or 4 airports where AS Board Room members can access the United Club when flying on Alaska. As for needing to be at T-1 to offer connection feed from the other Star carriers. Most of those airlines already fly nonstop to both LAX and SFO. In addition to flying into EWR and/or ORD. I think UA's biggest issue at JFK is not about gate space, but rather obtaining the slot pairs needed to increase any type of service there.


UA has said their intention is to eventually add flights to some of their hubs as well and right now, the number of flights is going to be low (a function of demand and slots). For UA to be relevant at JFK on the LAX/SFO market, it will need a near equal number of frequencies as the rest of the competition. LHR is a possibility, however a remote one. They'll need a slot on both ends, which right is less of an issue, but they also need a good terminal and a premium lounge with a Polaris offering to make a JFK-LHR route viable and they will also need some frequency, not just one flight.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:30 am

catiii wrote:
tphuang wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:

EI could move to T8, yes, and eventually, it might, even though it has a lounge at T5. HA isn't moving anywhere. They are partners with B6. Could UA move to T5, only if the $ is right and B6 wants to rent the gates out. The likely home of UA at JFK will, until there's a new terminal, is T1, once T7 is shut.


As I said before, I think B6 would be happy with UA moving into their new combined T5 to T7 section if they can in exchange get the gates they want in the EWR T-1. Aside from that, UA's option will be whatever is left over at T-4 or the new enlarged T-1, but that one might take a while to complete and it will probably be quite expensive.


B6’s plans at EWR have zero to do with, and are not at all contingent on anything relating to UA’s plans at JFK. Full stop.


I'd agree with that yes and the notion that UA will roll over and give B6 gate access (for a price) at EWR and vice versa, with UA gaining gates at a JFK Terminal that right now does not even exist beyond a drawing board is ludicrous. The potential for slot swapping though, isn't. DL and UA tried this when UA pulled out of JFK with Delta wanting the UA slots for the post-2015 exit by UA in exchange for UA getting some DL slots at EWR. It didn't quite work out that way.
 
tphuang
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:49 am

ContinentalEWR wrote:
I'd agree with that yes and the notion that UA will roll over and give B6 gate access (for a price) at EWR and vice versa, with UA gaining gates at a JFK Terminal that right now does not even exist beyond a drawing board is ludicrous. The potential for slot swapping though, isn't. DL and UA tried this when UA pulled out of JFK with Delta wanting the UA slots for the post-2015 exit by UA in exchange for UA getting some DL slots at EWR. It didn't quite work out that way.


T5 is not on drawing board. It has been in existence for many years. It has 29 gates and is not gate constrained. Quite a few people mentioned that B6 got extra unused gates at T-A last year as part of agreement that allowed UA back into JFK.

It looks like UA is looking for 15 to 20 slots, probably preferential access to 3 to 4 gates, lounge space and a large dedicated check-in area for its premium passengers. It's not that easy to find that kind of space around when T7 is up for demolition.

UA doesn't need to roll over. It will decide for itself what it is willing to give up elsewhere to give itself the space it needs to have the best chance of success at JFK. Maybe it can get what it needs without giving up anything. I don't know. JFK has more competition than EWR. They need to bring their best game if they want to create a sustainable operation.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:01 pm

tphuang wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
I'd agree with that yes and the notion that UA will roll over and give B6 gate access (for a price) at EWR and vice versa, with UA gaining gates at a JFK Terminal that right now does not even exist beyond a drawing board is ludicrous. The potential for slot swapping though, isn't. DL and UA tried this when UA pulled out of JFK with Delta wanting the UA slots for the post-2015 exit by UA in exchange for UA getting some DL slots at EWR. It didn't quite work out that way.


T5 is not on drawing board. It has been in existence for many years. It has 29 gates and is not gate constrained. Quite a few people mentioned that B6 got extra unused gates at T-A last year as part of agreement that allowed UA back into JFK.

It looks like UA is looking for 15 to 20 slots, probably preferential access to 3 to 4 gates, lounge space and a large dedicated check-in area for its premium passengers. It's not that easy to find that kind of space around when T7 is up for demolition.

UA doesn't need to roll over. It will decide for itself what it is willing to give up elsewhere to give itself the space it needs to have the best chance of success at JFK. Maybe it can get what it needs without giving up anything. I don't know. JFK has more competition than EWR. They need to bring their best game if they want to create a sustainable operation.


We're talking (yourself included) about the T5-T7 extension not the existing T5.
 
halrudy
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:37 pm

Is UA#3345 going to JFK for ground personnel familiarization with the 763?
 
jetmatt777
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:52 pm

PSA727 wrote:
Why do people think that there is an issue with UA at JFK needing to find a home? They will have a total of 4 daily flights out of there. There isn't going to be service to DEN/IAD/IAH/ORD. Those stations all have nonstop flights out of LGA. The only additional destination I could see them add out of JFK is LHR. And that would be primarily to offer London service on a Star Alliance carrier east of the Hudson River. There is enough space for them at T-7 for the next two years while it will still be in operation. They can work out an agreement with AS for their premium passengers and United Club members to use their Board Room there. In fact, I believe AS has an agreement with UA at 3 or 4 airports where AS Board Room members can access the United Club when flying on Alaska. As for needing to be at T-1 to offer connection feed from the other Star carriers. Most of those airlines already fly nonstop to both LAX and SFO. In addition to flying into EWR and/or ORD. I think UA's biggest issue at JFK is not about gate space, but rather obtaining the slot pairs needed to increase any type of service there.


We think that because UA has specifically said they plan on serving those hubs from JFK in the future when travel rebounds.
 
codc10
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:03 pm

PSA727 wrote:
Why do people think that there is an issue with UA at JFK needing to find a home? They will have a total of 4 daily flights out of there. There isn't going to be service to DEN/IAD/IAH/ORD. Those stations all have nonstop flights out of LGA. The only additional destination I could see them add out of JFK is LHR. And that would be primarily to offer London service on a Star Alliance carrier east of the Hudson River. There is enough space for them at T-7 for the next two years while it will still be in operation. They can work out an agreement with AS for their premium passengers and United Club members to use their Board Room there. In fact, I believe AS has an agreement with UA at 3 or 4 airports where AS Board Room members can access the United Club when flying on Alaska. As for needing to be at T-1 to offer connection feed from the other Star carriers. Most of those airlines already fly nonstop to both LAX and SFO. In addition to flying into EWR and/or ORD. I think UA's biggest issue at JFK is not about gate space, but rather obtaining the slot pairs needed to increase any type of service there.


UA internally told pilots it has access to slots to support 15 daily flights through the IATA S21 schedule.

I'm not sure if we get to a point this summer where 15 total West Coast 767 flights are viable. My dark horse pick was a JFK-LHR launch, but the uncertainty with the UK reopening to international tourism has put a serious damper on the prospects for what will be a more leisure-heavy North Atlantic summer than usual. For that reason (especially to the extent demand continues to skew heavily domestic) late adds to UA hubs, especially DEN/IAH/ORD, are not out of the question for JFK, IMO.
 
CALMSP
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:00 pm

codc10 wrote:
PSA727 wrote:
Why do people think that there is an issue with UA at JFK needing to find a home? They will have a total of 4 daily flights out of there. There isn't going to be service to DEN/IAD/IAH/ORD. Those stations all have nonstop flights out of LGA. The only additional destination I could see them add out of JFK is LHR. And that would be primarily to offer London service on a Star Alliance carrier east of the Hudson River. There is enough space for them at T-7 for the next two years while it will still be in operation. They can work out an agreement with AS for their premium passengers and United Club members to use their Board Room there. In fact, I believe AS has an agreement with UA at 3 or 4 airports where AS Board Room members can access the United Club when flying on Alaska. As for needing to be at T-1 to offer connection feed from the other Star carriers. Most of those airlines already fly nonstop to both LAX and SFO. In addition to flying into EWR and/or ORD. I think UA's biggest issue at JFK is not about gate space, but rather obtaining the slot pairs needed to increase any type of service there.


UA internally told pilots it has access to slots to support 15 daily flights through the IATA S21 schedule.

I'm not sure if we get to a point this summer where 15 total West Coast 767 flights are viable. My dark horse pick was a JFK-LHR launch, but the uncertainty with the UK reopening to international tourism has put a serious damper on the prospects for what will be a more leisure-heavy North Atlantic summer than usual. For that reason (especially to the extent demand continues to skew heavily domestic) late adds to UA hubs, especially DEN/IAH/ORD, are not out of the question for JFK, IMO.


Agreed. I've said all along I think there could be a LHR turn in the mix. I'd also expect a DEN trip to be added in there given the "outdoor" freedom in Colorado for people to do.
 
catiii
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:36 pm

CALMSP wrote:

Agreed. I've said all along I think there could be a LHR turn in the mix. I'd also expect a DEN trip to be added in there given the "outdoor" freedom in Colorado for people to do.


DEN will be added for hub connectivity, not because of the outdoors. The pandemic is winding down.
 
UA857
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:34 am

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL514 First UA flight to JFK Expected To Depart In Over a Day. Anyone have tickets for that flight.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:57 am

catiii wrote:
CALMSP wrote:

Agreed. I've said all along I think there could be a LHR turn in the mix. I'd also expect a DEN trip to be added in there given the "outdoor" freedom in Colorado for people to do.


DEN will be added for hub connectivity, not because of the outdoors. The pandemic is winding down.


7% rise in cases in the US. It's not winding down yet.
 
LGeneReese
Posts: 310
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:45 am

Who is going to be the ground handling for UA at JFK? I doubt it will be actual UA personal.
Formerly IAHCSR
 
jetmatt777
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:11 pm

LGeneReese wrote:
Who is going to be the ground handling for UA at JFK? I doubt it will be actual UA personal.


Mainline. It is part of the EWR/LGA point.
 
UA857
Posts: 707
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:24 pm

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL514 UA´s first flight to JFK has just landed and arrived at Gate 3 of Terminal 7.
 
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SumChristianus
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:35 pm

First flights in both directions look relatively full
However they're only about half full in both directions for the rest of the flights this week (only 5x week for each route / x23)
UA DL LH NW AA WN
Do not go gentle into that good night ...
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MaxTrimm
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:39 am

SumChristianus wrote:
First flights in both directions look relatively full
However they're only about half full in both directions for the rest of the flights this week (only 5x week for each route / x23)

Amateur question but I’m willing to learn. Is x23 mean the flight doesn’t operate on Monday and Tuesday? Or is “1” considered Monday?
 
USPIT10L
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:46 am

MaxTrimm wrote:
SumChristianus wrote:
First flights in both directions look relatively full
However they're only about half full in both directions for the rest of the flights this week (only 5x week for each route / x23)

Amateur question but I’m willing to learn. Is x23 mean the flight doesn’t operate on Monday and Tuesday? Or is “1” considered Monday?


X23 is Tuesday and Wednesday, the two lightest days of the week. Yes, 1 is Monday and so forth. X67 means no weekend service and so on.
It's a Great Day for Hockey!
 
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SumChristianus
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:53 am

MaxTrimm wrote:
SumChristianus wrote:
First flights in both directions look relatively full
However they're only about half full in both directions for the rest of the flights this week (only 5x week for each route / x23)

Amateur question but I’m willing to learn. Is x23 mean the flight doesn’t operate on Monday and Tuesday? Or is “1” considered Monday?


Sorry yes 1 is Monday, I'm too accustomed to thinking in those numbers
1 Monday, 2 Tuesday, 3 Wednesday, 4 THursday ... 6 Saturday, 7 Sunday
x236 would be except Tuesday, Wednesday, Saturday
67 means just Saturday, Sunday
and so forth

Unfortunately very few carriers publish timetables, even as PDFs anymore but I used to love going deep into them (especially Delta's) and seeing how every equipment type varied from day to day across an entire hub airport. So funny to be saying those were the days about 4 or 5 years ago, but those WERE the days.

SkyTeam apparently still publishes one:
https://services.skyteam.com/Timetable/
UA DL LH NW AA WN
Do not go gentle into that good night ...
Rage, rage against the dying of the light
 
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NYPECO
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:42 am

 
debonair
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:48 pm

Sorry if discussed before, but does have UA any agreement for lounge access @ JFK for *A Gold or Biz-Class?
 
WorldFlier
Posts: 437
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:32 pm

debonair wrote:
Sorry if discussed before, but does have UA any agreement for lounge access @ JFK for *A Gold or Biz-Class?



When in doubt, check this out:

https://www.staralliance.com/en/lounge-finder

Filter the results by your departure and destination airports, airline, class, status, and paid lounge membership. Allegedly, Paid United Club Membership or Business Class to SFO gets you into Lufthansa's lounge. Note: I have absolutely no idea about which terminals you can or cannot go through or anything else, but I've used that site before to figure which lounge I will check out on my travels.

I know that I've been in Lufthansa's DTW lounge (pre-pandemic) on club membership while flying domestically, but I've also been turned away when its been overcrowded.
 
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airzim
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:56 pm

WorldFlier wrote:
debonair wrote:
Sorry if discussed before, but does have UA any agreement for lounge access @ JFK for *A Gold or Biz-Class?



When in doubt, check this out:

https://www.staralliance.com/en/lounge-finder

Filter the results by your departure and destination airports, airline, class, status, and paid lounge membership. Allegedly, Paid United Club Membership or Business Class to SFO gets you into Lufthansa's lounge. Note: I have absolutely no idea about which terminals you can or cannot go through or anything else, but I've used that site before to figure which lounge I will check out on my travels.

I know that I've been in Lufthansa's DTW lounge (pre-pandemic) on club membership while flying domestically, but I've also been turned away when its been overcrowded.


There's no practical access to either the LH, AI, or LX lounges when flying UA at JFK. There's no airside connection and I'm not sure the other terminals will allow you access if you're flying from T7. But even if there was, it wouldn't be worth the effort.
 
WorldFlier
Posts: 437
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:10 pm

Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:05 pm

airzim wrote:
WorldFlier wrote:
debonair wrote:
Sorry if discussed before, but does have UA any agreement for lounge access @ JFK for *A Gold or Biz-Class?



When in doubt, check this out:

https://www.staralliance.com/en/lounge-finder

Filter the results by your departure and destination airports, airline, class, status, and paid lounge membership. Allegedly, Paid United Club Membership or Business Class to SFO gets you into Lufthansa's lounge. Note: I have absolutely no idea about which terminals you can or cannot go through or anything else, but I've used that site before to figure which lounge I will check out on my travels.

I know that I've been in Lufthansa's DTW lounge (pre-pandemic) on club membership while flying domestically, but I've also been turned away when its been overcrowded.


There's no practical access to either the LH, AI, or LX lounges when flying UA at JFK. There's no airside connection and I'm not sure the other terminals will allow you access if you're flying from T7. But even if there was, it wouldn't be worth the effort.


Then UA has to put something in their terminal, otherwise its hard to be a premium transcon service without a premium, easy to access, lounge. Now's the perfect time to build one of they are serious because there's very little business traffic and plenty of time to get it done.
 
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airzim
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:09 pm

WorldFlier wrote:
airzim wrote:
WorldFlier wrote:


When in doubt, check this out:

https://www.staralliance.com/en/lounge-finder

Filter the results by your departure and destination airports, airline, class, status, and paid lounge membership. Allegedly, Paid United Club Membership or Business Class to SFO gets you into Lufthansa's lounge. Note: I have absolutely no idea about which terminals you can or cannot go through or anything else, but I've used that site before to figure which lounge I will check out on my travels.

I know that I've been in Lufthansa's DTW lounge (pre-pandemic) on club membership while flying domestically, but I've also been turned away when its been overcrowded.


There's no practical access to either the LH, AI, or LX lounges when flying UA at JFK. There's no airside connection and I'm not sure the other terminals will allow you access if you're flying from T7. But even if there was, it wouldn't be worth the effort.


Then UA has to put something in their terminal, otherwise its hard to be a premium transcon service without a premium, easy to access, lounge. Now's the perfect time to build one of they are serious because there's very little business traffic and plenty of time to get it done.


They'll find an interim solution. Either get access to the AS lounge (the former UA lounge) or the BA Lounge where NH is also currently using for their premium passengers. There's no other real estate in the terminal to build a new one. And more importantly, the Terminal is scheduled to be torn down to allow expansion of Terminal 5. So not worth the effort.
 
JoseSalazar
Posts: 463
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:18 am

Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:25 pm

WorldFlier wrote:
airzim wrote:
WorldFlier wrote:


When in doubt, check this out:

https://www.staralliance.com/en/lounge-finder

Filter the results by your departure and destination airports, airline, class, status, and paid lounge membership. Allegedly, Paid United Club Membership or Business Class to SFO gets you into Lufthansa's lounge. Note: I have absolutely no idea about which terminals you can or cannot go through or anything else, but I've used that site before to figure which lounge I will check out on my travels.

I know that I've been in Lufthansa's DTW lounge (pre-pandemic) on club membership while flying domestically, but I've also been turned away when its been overcrowded.


There's no practical access to either the LH, AI, or LX lounges when flying UA at JFK. There's no airside connection and I'm not sure the other terminals will allow you access if you're flying from T7. But even if there was, it wouldn't be worth the effort.


Then UA has to put something in their terminal, otherwise its hard to be a premium transcon service without a premium, easy to access, lounge. Now's the perfect time to build one of they are serious because there's very little business traffic and plenty of time to get it done.

Meh, B6 doesn’t have a lounge and their mint service seems to do just fine. Can’t imagine too many people booking one airline vs another based off of lounge access. I would think they will most likely book based on fare, loyalty, and schedule. But I could be wrong.
 
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psa1011
Posts: 517
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:33 pm

airzim wrote:
WorldFlier wrote:
airzim wrote:

There's no practical access to either the LH, AI, or LX lounges when flying UA at JFK. There's no airside connection and I'm not sure the other terminals will allow you access if you're flying from T7. But even if there was, it wouldn't be worth the effort.


Then UA has to put something in their terminal, otherwise its hard to be a premium transcon service without a premium, easy to access, lounge. Now's the perfect time to build one of they are serious because there's very little business traffic and plenty of time to get it done.


They'll find an interim solution. Either get access to the AS lounge (the former UA lounge) or the BA Lounge where NH is also currently using for their premium passengers. There's no other real estate in the terminal to build a new one. And more importantly, the Terminal is scheduled to be torn down to allow expansion of Terminal 5. So not worth the effort.


So where will UA operate once T7 is gone?
 
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jfklganyc
Posts: 6358
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Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:15 pm

psa1011 wrote:
airzim wrote:
WorldFlier wrote:

Then UA has to put something in their terminal, otherwise its hard to be a premium transcon service without a premium, easy to access, lounge. Now's the perfect time to build one of they are serious because there's very little business traffic and plenty of time to get it done.


They'll find an interim solution. Either get access to the AS lounge (the former UA lounge) or the BA Lounge where NH is also currently using for their premium passengers. There's no other real estate in the terminal to build a new one. And more importantly, the Terminal is scheduled to be torn down to allow expansion of Terminal 5. So not worth the effort.


So where will UA operate once T7 is gone?


Things havent progressed that far yet...on any front.

Just speculation
 
User avatar
airzim
Posts: 1516
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2001 7:40 am

Re: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:15 pm

psa1011 wrote:
airzim wrote:
WorldFlier wrote:

Then UA has to put something in their terminal, otherwise its hard to be a premium transcon service without a premium, easy to access, lounge. Now's the perfect time to build one of they are serious because there's very little business traffic and plenty of time to get it done.


They'll find an interim solution. Either get access to the AS lounge (the former UA lounge) or the BA Lounge where NH is also currently using for their premium passengers. There's no other real estate in the terminal to build a new one. And more importantly, the Terminal is scheduled to be torn down to allow expansion of Terminal 5. So not worth the effort.


So where will UA operate once T7 is gone?


No idea, but I suspect they'll find a way to move all the *A carriers together under one roof when the new Term 1 is constructed.

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