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kaitak
Topic Author
Posts: 9957
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Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:20 pm

Good evening folks and welcome to our October thread and as I was going through the headlines to summarise last month, that great old Don McLean song, American Pie, came to mind:

But February made me shiver, with every paper I'd deliver
Bad news on the doorstep, I couldn't take one more step
I can't remember if I cried, when I read about his widowed bride
But something touched me deep inside the day the music died

I suspect we're not going to have to wait until February for the aviation industry to feel some shivers! It does, unfortunately, feel like there's a constant stream of bad news, with little to be optimistic about. Just reading through last month's headlines, it's mostly - though not completely - bad news:

- American suspends Dublin for the Winter, last DFW-DUB sector Nov 2
- Green list increases, then reduces; increasing cases in Ireland put us on other countries' red lists
- EI's remaining three standard A321s retiring
- EI regional contracts up for renewal
- Taoiseach says restrictions on foreign travel to continue until mid 2021
- Runway 10/28 to be redesignated 10R/28L from 8 October, as new runway prepares for opening later next year
- New IAA Aviation Regulator appointed
- DNATA quadruples catering capacity at DUB
- FR threatens to close SNN/ORK bases for Winter 20/21

Here's a link to the last thread for anyone who wants to revisit it: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1451135

Let's just hope that November brings something that at least offers a sign of movement in the right direction. Probably not a lot will happen with Dublin in its current state of lockdown (Level 3.5), but with the country moving from the rather shambolic green/amber/red list system to the EU's system, maybe we will see some positive measures, perhaps even a commitment (or an obligation placed on the govt by the EU) to introduce airport testing. A low cost, quick turnaround airport testing service, or an agreed certification system for negative testing (and, when available, vaccination certification) would be great. Page 3 of Irish passports (and probably the same for all EU passports) are set aside for "Observations", an ideal space to stamp confirmation of Covid vaccination?

I appreciate that the government is trying to prioritise public health over commerce, but the number of aviation industry employees "benefiting" from the PUP system (myself included, I should say) must be costing the state a huge amount; introducing a system that works and can get people travelling again and commerce rebuilding would also help to get aviation workers back to work and no longer reliant on PUP.

Fingers crossed!
 
marcogr12
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Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:43 pm

So what will EI replace the retired A321s with? NEOs? A320s or A321s? Are they getting the LR version just or both? Because, i dont think it would be financially wise to use the LRs on short hops around Europe and UK when demand is there for A321s...
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
TUGMASTER
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Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:13 pm

And that’s the problem....
There is NO demand.
 
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alancostello
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Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:24 pm

marcogr12 wrote:
So what will EI replace the retired A321s with? NEOs? A320s or A321s? Are they getting the LR version just or both? Because, i dont think it would be financially wise to use the LRs on short hops around Europe and UK when demand is there for A321s...


If they’re to be replaced by anything I would imagine it’ll be some more reasonably priced/leased A320/A321 CEOs however that is going to be multiple years down the line so maybe even NEOs if they can get a good price at that time.

The A321s weren’t in consistent use, certainly not maximised use, sometimes barely scraping one return trip a day, they usually get put on charters and high demand sun/snow routes depending on the season to Spain, the Canaries, Northern Italy and Lapland among others.

The A321LRs have 6-8 hours of downtime in DUB between transatlantic flights so there is more than enough time for them to hop to most of Europe if there is additional capacity required in the immediate term.
 
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ChrisNH38
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Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:26 pm

BOS is supposedly going up to an A330 of some sort, starting tomorrow. So someone is seeing something.
https://my.flightradar24.com/ChrisNH
 
S0Y
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Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:41 am

ChrisNH38 wrote:
BOS is supposedly going up to an A330 of some sort, starting tomorrow. So someone is seeing something.



Cargo perhaps?
Hard to see pax demand being the driver
 
BDKLEZ
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Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:24 am

Just wondering, apart from Stobart and/or CityJet (merged at that stage or otherwise), who else would be a likely suitor for the new EI Regional contract when it comes up for grabs? IMHO I see it staying with Stobart to allow the CityJet deal to go ahead given that Stobart group wants to divest the airline from it's business.
Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
 
jrfspa320
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Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:44 am

BDKLEZ wrote:
Just wondering, apart from Stobart and/or CityJet (merged at that stage or otherwise), who else would be a likely suitor for the new EI Regional contract when it comes up for grabs? IMHO I see it staying with Stobart to allow the CityJet deal to go ahead given that Stobart group wants to divest the airline from it's business.


Air Nostrum..
 
BDKLEZ
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Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:23 am

jrfspa320 wrote:
BDKLEZ wrote:
Just wondering, apart from Stobart and/or CityJet (merged at that stage or otherwise), who else would be a likely suitor for the new EI Regional contract when it comes up for grabs? IMHO I see it staying with Stobart to allow the CityJet deal to go ahead given that Stobart group wants to divest the airline from it's business.


Air Nostrum..


Keep it IAG, how foolish of me. Given the comment from WW re the Stobart contract, maybe you have a very valid point. Anyone else who could be in the mix?
Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
 
factsonly
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Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:38 am

QR A320 heading for SNN - Oct 1st, 2020:

- QR3251 DOH 01.20 - 06.12 PRG 07.22 - SNN 08.34 QR3251 A320-232 A7-AHW

https://www.flightradar24.com/QTR3251/25a662dc
 
Clydenairways
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Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:52 am

BDKLEZ wrote:
Just wondering, apart from Stobart and/or CityJet (merged at that stage or otherwise), who else would be a likely suitor for the new EI Regional contract when it comes up for grabs? IMHO I see it staying with Stobart to allow the CityJet deal to go ahead given that Stobart group wants to divest the airline from it's business.

Loganair, Eastern AW, Blue Islands could all bid too
 
Fliplot
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Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:59 am

If Stobart Air and CityJet could find the middle ground on a merger, and if the collaboration/merger with Air Nostrum then went ahead, would that not be a more viable solution for all three airlines? A battle for the EI Regional services does not make any financial sense at this time. Too clever of EI to tender for the services now or a bold cost cutting strategy?
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:06 am

Crisis at Cork and Shannon airports: Government explores 'targeted support measures'

Further support for "decimated" Cork and Shannon airports is currently being considered by the Government, according to the transport junior minister.

Hildegarde Naughton, who was responding to calls from senators making representations on Cork and Shannon, said Department of Transport officials were actively “exploring” measures, but did not specify what was being considered.

www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40057289.html?type=amp

—-


Ryanair takes add-on charges to new heights

Ryanair made almost £2.6 billion through add-ons such as reserved seats, priority boarding and checked-in bags last year amid continuing concerns over airlines’ “hidden fees”.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ryanairs-hid ... -krnb72xtz
 
VSMUT
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Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:21 am

Clydenairways wrote:
BDKLEZ wrote:
Just wondering, apart from Stobart and/or CityJet (merged at that stage or otherwise), who else would be a likely suitor for the new EI Regional contract when it comes up for grabs? IMHO I see it staying with Stobart to allow the CityJet deal to go ahead given that Stobart group wants to divest the airline from it's business.

Loganair, Eastern AW, Blue Islands could all bid too


Every ACMI job and regional airline in Europe is going to be hungry for such a contract. Regional aircraft are cheap and plentiful, so almost anyone has a shot at it. It will be hotly contested.
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:48 am

OA260 wrote:
Ryanair takes add-on charges to new heights

Ryanair made almost £2.6 billion through add-ons such as reserved seats, priority boarding and checked-in bags last year amid continuing concerns over airlines’ “hidden fees”.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ryana ... -krnb72xtz


Personally, I think the Ryanair booking engine is very clear about the 3 fares available and what they include in terms of baggage options and seat selection. They don’t specifically say that groups will be split up, but they do say “guarantee sitting together”. Some frequent travellers or fans of MSE, Martin Lewis, etc might be aware, but it’s reasonable to assume groups would be sat together. All of that needs to be put in context of average fares and what competitors charge. The priority queues imply that people like bringing their luggage with them, for example.
 
Fliplot
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Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:15 am

Hidden fees in Ryanair! If they are hidden how fo you know they generated €2.6b in revenue? If they are hidden why do you get to select them at the time of booking? Such shoddy media reporting - has that horse truly not already left the stable?
 
Clydenairways
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Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:33 am

How come AC can manage to operate YYZ to DUB now but EI have to wait ?
 
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ClassicLover
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Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:44 am

OA260 wrote:
Ryanair takes add-on charges to new heights

Ryanair made almost £2.6 billion through add-ons such as reserved seats, priority boarding and checked-in bags last year amid continuing concerns over airlines’ “hidden fees”.


Slow news day if they're thinking they're "hidden fees". More power to Ryanair for extracting so much value out of people. What I'd like to see is their average fare and then the average fare if you throw in the ancillary fees. The model works very well for them, I have to say, cause people are sheep. It really struck me when two friends paid around €500 a piece on Ryanair to fly Dublin to Malta and back. I pointed out that they could fly business class on BA for €400 with a stop in London (or less in economy!) on the same dates, but they didn't want to stop. Long may Ryanair continue doing what it does so well!

Meanwhile, Qatar Airways have extended their travel with confidence policy. It now runs all the way through to 31 December 2021 for bookings up to 31 December 2020. Gives me a great deal more flexibility on my ticket if I need to use it.
I do enjoy a spot of flying, especially when it's not in economy!
 
offloaded
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Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:50 am

kaitak wrote:
- Taoiseach says restrictions on foreign travel to continue until mid 2021


Mid 2021? Is he nuts? There won't be a travel industry by then!

I would've thought long before then fast, accurate and cheap pre and/or post flight testing would be norm.
To no one will we sell, or deny, or delay, right or justice - Magna Carta, 1215
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:13 pm

offloaded wrote:
kaitak wrote:
- Taoiseach says restrictions on foreign travel to continue until mid 2021


Mid 2021? Is he nuts? There won't be a travel industry by then!

I would've thought long before then fast, accurate and cheap pre and/or post flight testing would be norm.


Sadly nothing moves fast in Ireland . The politicians here seem unable to make proper decisions and think outside of the box unless they are lining their own pockets or furthering their own career. January and February will be crunch time for many travel / tourism companies in Ireland . If there are no advance bookings or signs of green shoots then many will just close down.

Of course the COVID-19 welfare system has been more generous then the UK but then again its had to be due to the country being isolated. Its that which is keeping all these companies from collapsing. When the aid finally gets pulled thats when the jobs will go in their thousands in Ireland . This is the honeymoon period !
 
CarbHeatIn
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Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:37 pm

ChrisNH38 wrote:
BOS is supposedly going up to an A330 of some sort, starting tomorrow. So someone is seeing something.

Nope. Staying on the NEO
 
JAmie2k9
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Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:21 pm

Ryanair appear to have accepted the Government date for EU travel list:

"Ryanair has told the Minister for Transport that it will close is bases in Cork and Shannon for the winter from October 26, if the Government has not adopted the new EU traffic light system for travel by October 13."

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/1 ... d-shannon/

Meanwhile Aer Lingus have launched 2021 schedule this morning, sizeable schedule on sale with more to follow. They are offering customers guaranteed vouchers if they decide not to travel as well as extending the free unlimited change policy.
 
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alancostello
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Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:41 pm

CarbHeatIn wrote:
ChrisNH38 wrote:
BOS is supposedly going up to an A330 of some sort, starting tomorrow. So someone is seeing something.

Nope. Staying on the NEO


FlightRadar shows it scheduled as A330 pre-departure for the last while but it never is actual, it's always A321LR.
 
HTCone
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Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:01 pm

Regarding replacement for the EI 321CEOs, when the A321XLRs start arriving, the ACTs in the LRs can be removed if needed, thus resulting in a standard A321NEO. It is one of the attractions of the LR over the XLR; greater flexibility in terms of optimisation between shorter and longer routes.
 
Planejoe
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Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:09 pm

I’ve been traveling to Shannon since 1965. Dublin is getting a 2nd runway. I’m ok with one runway in Shannon but I would like to see a new men’s room for incoming passengers so I don’t have to pee against a wall.
 
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Phen
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Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:31 pm

Very interesting game FR are playing with their open threats/ultimatum to the Government regarding Cork and Shannon. It will be a nail-biting moment waiting to see if the Govt here will partake in full in the new EU system but going on their behaviour so far, I really don'y hold out hope; particularly with case numbers rising all over Europe. The addition of Germany and Poland to the "Green list" and their swift removal only days later just shows the lack of interest the Govt has in getting travel up and running again. I cannot see the public health experts here giving their blessing to this plan. The Govt has not as of yet shown any willingness to diverge from the public health advice.

Planejoe wrote:
I’ve been traveling to Shannon since 1965. Dublin is getting a 2nd runway. I’m ok with one runway in Shannon but I would like to see a new men’s room for incoming passengers so I don’t have to pee against a wall.

From what I recall there are cubicles in the men's toilets in arrivals in Shannon. Should be able to avoid using the wall if you use one of them.
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:49 pm

Ireland's Green List left unchanged, but rising cases could soon see all countries excluded

The Department of Foreign Affairs has left the four remaining countries on its 'Green List' this week, but Covid-19 figures are trending upwards all over Europe

Ireland's 'Green List' of countries that people can travel to without restricting their movements on return will remain unchanged next week.
The next 'Green List', which is updated on Thursdays to take effect the following Monday, will feature the same four countries as last week.

www.independent.ie/life/travel/travel-n ... 78618.html
 
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AmricanShamrok
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Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:53 pm

Phen wrote:
Very interesting game FR are playing with their open threats/ultimatum to the Government regarding Cork and Shannon. It will be a nail-biting moment waiting to see if the Govt here will partake in full in the new EU system but going on their behaviour so far, I really don'y hold out hope; particularly with case numbers rising all over Europe. The addition of Germany and Poland to the "Green list" and their swift removal only days later just shows the lack of interest the Govt has in getting travel up and running again. I cannot see the public health experts here giving their blessing to this plan. The Govt has not as of yet shown any willingness to diverge from the public health advice.

Don't forget also we have a Green Party leader who is Minister for Transport so I wouldn't hold my breath on this :hissyfit:

The RTÉ News article says FR serves 23 destinations from ORK and 13 from SNN. I didn't think it was that long ago that SNN had more FR service than ORK but I had to look back as far as 2009 to get there. In that year FR only had five routes out of ORK (CCF, DUB, LPL, LGW, STN).
 
Fliplot
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Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:39 pm

Ryan is not yet as bad as Ross was, so give him a break. He needs a thriving travel and tourism industry to be able to collect taxes for his green agenda! Needs must as they say!
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:10 am

Ryanair passenger numbers down 64% in September

Ryanair's passenger numbers for September were 64% lower when compared to the same month of 2019.

The airline carried 5.1m people during the month, compared to 14.1m in September of last year.

The September figure is also 2.1m lower than the number for August, when passenger numbers were down 53%.

www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/1002/1168 ... september/



Irish travel hope for summer 2021 to Spain, Portugal, USA and more as Aer Lingus release plan

Aer Lingus say now is the time to start planning summer 2021

Aer Lingus have launched their summer 2021 plan igniting hopes Irish people could be back in the sun.

The airline is offering 'book with confidence' options that will allow cancellations should things change between you booking and the trip itself.

www.irishmirror.ie/lifestyle/travel/iri ... 778324.amp

—-

Belfast City Airport is resilient, says boss as doubt cast on future

Accounts highlight 'material uncertainty' over Belfast operation as a going concern

The boss of Belfast City Airport has said the business is still "resilient" despite a question mark over its future in company accounts.

But chief executive Brian Ambrose said the airport had to come up with a new business plan to get through the pandemic - which is reviewed with its banks every month.

https://amp.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/busi ... 80419.html
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:21 am

Ryanair loses High Court challenge over Covid-19 travel measures

Ryanair has lost its High Court action over government measures affecting air travel.

The airline had claimed the measures amounted to a legal restriction on travel in and out of the country.

The State disputed those claims, arguing the measures are merely advisory and are not binding in nature.

www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/ry ... 81478.html
 
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shamrock350
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Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:40 pm

OA260 wrote:
Belfast City Airport is resilient, says boss as doubt cast on future

Accounts highlight 'material uncertainty' over Belfast operation as a going concern

The boss of Belfast City Airport has said the business is still "resilient" despite a question mark over its future in company accounts.

But chief executive Brian Ambrose said the airport had to come up with a new business plan to get through the pandemic - which is reviewed with its banks every month.

https://amp.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/busi ... 80419.html


While there are still numerous battles ahead for the likes of Belfast City Airport, it was encouraging to see such a busy departure board today! There were 15 departures from Aer Lingus, 5 with Loganair, 4 on BA, 3 from Eastern and 1 from KLM. The airport has secured itself a diverse group of airlines offering a robust regional schedule which puts them in a much better position than anyone could have imagined six months ago as the collapse of Flybe decimated the airport and the onset of the pandemic looked set to finish it off, the team there have obviously worked ridiculously hard. Credit where it's due.
 
kaitak
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Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:49 pm

A little blast from the past - and a reminder that we're getting on a bit!

Believe it or not, its 25 years - a quarter of a century - since Aer Lingus's last 747 flight took place. It really was a wonderful piece of engineering.

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Aer-Lin ... G5EuPgQ%3D
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:12 am

Looks like Aer Lingus are buckling down for a dire Winter. Lots of flights for Winter sun destinations and some key EU cities normally a cash cow are being removed from sale.

---

Shannon’s Aer Lingus transatlantic routes to be maintained

THERE had been fears that Shannon’s transatlantic connectivity was set for another pummelling, with Aer Lingus possibly transferring Shannon-USA routes to the UK, but it now seems that such concern was unwarranted.

It is understood that at a recent strategic planning meeting of Aer Lingus, the airline committed to operating a summer 2021 schedule to New York and Boston, using aircraft which will be based at Shannon. It is expected that there will be two A321neo aircraft at the Clare airport, each one of which has 184 seats.

While Aer Lingus may still opt to begin transatlantic services from the north of England, this will not be at Shannon’s expense.

https://clarechampion.ie/shannons-aer-l ... aintained/
 
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AmricanShamrok
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Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:48 am

OA260 wrote:
Shannon’s Aer Lingus transatlantic routes to be maintained

THERE had been fears that Shannon’s transatlantic connectivity was set for another pummelling, with Aer Lingus possibly transferring Shannon-USA routes to the UK, but it now seems that such concern was unwarranted.

It is understood that at a recent strategic planning meeting of Aer Lingus, the airline committed to operating a summer 2021 schedule to New York and Boston, using aircraft which will be based at Shannon. It is expected that there will be two A321neo aircraft at the Clare airport, each one of which has 184 seats.

While Aer Lingus may still opt to begin transatlantic services from the north of England, this will not be at Shannon’s expense.

https://clarechampion.ie/shannons-aer-l ... aintained/

That's a relief. Although I can't see EI operating a daily service to both JFK and BOS next summer. I'd imagine 4x weekly JFK and 3x weekly BOS would be more likely - in the best case scenario. We still don't know when LHR ops will resume.
 
User001
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Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:33 pm

It's also interesting that the article has pinned down a potential Aer Lingus TATL UK operation to the 'North of England'. Previously it was UK wide, with EDI and MAN specifically mentioned, this now means it narrows it down to MAN/LPL/NCL or LBA. Given the exsising decent sized operation and history of TATL ops, all eyes would be on MAN I'd guess.

While it doesnt make the operation a certainty, it seems the list of potential targets gets smaller.
 
aviator2000
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Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:25 pm

OA260 wrote:
Looks like Aer Lingus are buckling down for a dire Winter. Lots of flights for Winter sun destinations and some key EU cities normally a cash cow are being removed from sale.

---

Shannon’s Aer Lingus transatlantic routes to be maintained

THERE had been fears that Shannon’s transatlantic connectivity was set for another pummelling, with Aer Lingus possibly transferring Shannon-USA routes to the UK, but it now seems that such concern was unwarranted.

It is understood that at a recent strategic planning meeting of Aer Lingus, the airline committed to operating a summer 2021 schedule to New York and Boston, using aircraft which will be based at Shannon. It is expected that there will be two A321neo aircraft at the Clare airport, each one of which has 184 seats.

While Aer Lingus may still opt to begin transatlantic services from the north of England, this will not be at Shannon’s expense.

https://clarechampion.ie/shannons-aer-l ... aintained/

I wouldn't be so sure those routes will operate yet. It has still got to rain a lot before next summer, especially in an environment where airlines a making schedule changes less than a month in advance.
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Sun Oct 04, 2020 7:51 pm

Some breaking news tonight

NPHET recommends Level 5 restrictions for whole country

NPHET has recommended the highest level of restrictions for the entire country, Level 5, in a letter sent to Government tonight.

It is expected that the three party leaders in Government will seek a meeting with the CMO tomorrow to discuss the letter.

A lengthy NPHET meeting held to discuss the deteriorating Covid-19 situation took place this evening.

www.rte.ie/news/2020/1004/1169272-coronarvirus-ireland/
 
EIBPI
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Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Sun Oct 04, 2020 8:44 pm

The way things are going they might as well just close the airports for the winter, just keeping one Dublin terminal open.
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:39 am

Queen’s University charters flights to bring Chinese students to Belfast

Queen’s University Belfast for the second time in two weeks has chartered a Qatar Airways plane to bring hundreds of Chinese students to Belfast.

On Saturday about 400 new and returning Queen’s University students were flown into Northern Ireland from Beijing by Boeing 777 to begin the college term. Two weeks previously the university chartered a flight to bring in about 370 Chinese students.

www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-n ... -1.4371794

---

Covid testing and screening plan for Shannon Airport

The Government is working on establishing in a “robust” Covid-19 test and screening system for passengers Shannon Airport.

Transport Minister Eamon Ryan has confirmed the news to Clare TD Joe Carey who is chair of the all-party Shannon Airport Oireachtas Group.Deputy Carey raised the issue of ongoing airport restrictions in a parliamentary question to Minister Ryan. He asked if the Government would consider following the example of Rome’s Fiumicino Airport, which is currently trialling a pre-departure Covid testing system for passengers.

http://clareherald.com/2020/10/covid-te ... ort-91419/

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Fliplot
Posts: 330
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:23 pm

Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:46 am

Amazing!
SNN to possibly get Covid testing. With so many flights using the airport I hope they don't end up with a backlog and delays!!!!

Of course I am happy about airport testing!
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:53 am

Level 5 does seem like an extreme interpretation of the data. There is some talk about a "circuit breaker" and having a "normal" Christmas. I don't feel this is a viable way forward, as restrictions loosened and social gatherings increased so did the transmission. For that reason a circuit breaker and "normal" Christmas could leave us in a worse position in January.

I was thinking that the coming Ski season would be relatively normal, possibly quite busy. But at this stage I do have to wonder.
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:05 am

BrianDromey wrote:
Level 5 does seem like an extreme interpretation of the data. There is some talk about a "circuit breaker" and having a "normal" Christmas. I don't feel this is a viable way forward, as restrictions loosened and social gatherings increased so did the transmission. For that reason a circuit breaker and "normal" Christmas could leave us in a worse position in January.

I was thinking that the coming Ski season would be relatively normal, possibly quite busy. But at this stage I do have to wonder.


If the government go to Level 5 they will loose a lot of the public support and thats a key issue in controlling the spread. People will just ignore it and the Gards will find it impossible to control. When you look at other countries in Europe who have successfully managed the virus and even opened up their tourism sectors for the Summer while Ireland was isolated you wonder why Ireland seems unable to get their act together. With each week that passes the Irish government are making Boris seem competent. So much for Stay and Spend ! I guess thats about to go out the window and it was a stupid system ill thought our by the Irish government anyway. Id have preferred the Eat out to help out scheme that the UK had .

No wonder Aer Lingus has axed tons of flights in the last week for this Winter. Expect others to follow.
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:11 am

OA260 wrote:
With each week that passes the Irish government are making Boris seem competent. So much for Stay and Spend ! I guess thats about to go out the window and it was a stupid system ill thought our by the Irish government anyway. Id have preferred the Eat out to help out scheme that the UK had .

No wonder Aer Lingus has axed tons of flights in the last week for this Winter. Expect others to follow.


Indeed. The change of Government came at a very bad time, the messaging changed and not in a good way. Stay and Spend seems very complex, requires too high a spend threshold and favours higher-rate tax payers.

I would expect schedules to be further pruned indeed. I would expect Jan and Feb to be particularly dire. Especially if the Ski season goes by the wayside. I would have expected more incentives from the package holiday operators, there is very little discounting at this stage. I suppose the risk of disruption and late-notice changes mean that operators and customers are happy to wait.
 
Fliplot
Posts: 330
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:23 pm

Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:40 am

Guys you really do want it every way - government doing a bad job, airlines cutting schedules and no package holiday discounts. Any chance all these points are interdependent and connected?
Let's face it there will be doom and glum until at least June next year, if we are lucky!
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:01 pm

Fliplot wrote:
Guys you really do want it every way - government doing a bad job, airlines cutting schedules and no package holiday discounts. Any chance all these points are interdependent and connected?
Let's face it there will be doom and glum until at least June next year, if we are lucky!


Cake and eat it!

My point was that the messaging started to change and the advice deviated from the European norms around the change of government. The current government seems unable to make coherent and consistent decisions and then communicate them. Of course in the times of a pandemic everything is subject to change, but there have been several "own-goals" such as the COVID-Levels which were simultaneously announced and deviated from. Now we're in a situation where much of the country would go from Level 2 to Level 5 overnight, for example. Its poor communication.

Given that demand for travel is suppressed across the EU, I would have imagined that lowering fares and running promotions would have been used to stimulate customer spending. That does not seem to be happening very much at this stage for bookings more than a few weeks ahead. There are heavy discounts and attractive fares and rates for this weekend and next, for example, but after that much less. I think behaviour around booking has changed dramatically, partly by COVID itself and because of the rolling and unpredictable restrictions. This is not just an Irish phenomenon, it is widely seen across the EU and Asia. I'll ignore the US for now, the closed international borders make any kind of comparison with 'old normal' impossible. But domestic demand does seem very weak.
 
Fliplot
Posts: 330
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:23 pm

Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:00 pm

Pleasing one is a lot easier than pleasing three. I would not ve a supporter of the current Government but think the idea of three voices at every oress conference is simply overkill and a waste of time. The addition of another layer, the cabinet committee, is so old hat and smells of jobs for the boys.

Let's face it lockdowns were released too soon and a reasonable percentage of us are no abiding by the instructions!
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:22 pm

BrianDromey wrote:
Given that demand for travel is suppressed across the EU, I would have imagined that lowering fares and running promotions would have been used to stimulate customer spending. That does not seem to be happening very much at this stage for bookings more than a few weeks ahead. There are heavy discounts and attractive fares and rates for this weekend and next, for example, but after that much less.


I said back in April / May when people were predicting amazing fares that I doubted it would be the case. Next year for example some of the increases on holidays/hotels/flights are eye watering. I know friends of mine that booked with a well known TO for 2+2 and decided to move to same dates next year and the difference is EUR1500. Im hearing more and more of these stories so it looks like next year will be the year they claw back whatever they can to offset this years horrendous losses. Irish consumers have switched off from anything travel related. I know a guy who is in advertising and gave me one example of a recent campaign. Disneyland Paris have a booking offer with loads of savings and free options thrown in. Prices never seen before and the deposit was just EUR21 . Usually the phones would be ringing off the hook at such a deal but the stats he had from their advertising on various platforms showed a 80% drop in engagement . It just sums up the Irish mood at the moment with regards to planning any kind of travel even next year. With a level 5 lock down looming over us now and the GAA just suspending all club fixtures with immediate effect the forecast is dire.
 
kaitak
Topic Author
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Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:59 pm

AC bringing the Max back to DUB next Summer (subject to the Covid situation, of course):

Montreal – Dublin 737 MAX 8 replaces 787-8, 3 weekly

Latest information is that the Govt looks like rejecting the move to Level 5 and moving to L3 for the whole country.

I also understand that Eamon Ryan is to announce a new plan re international travel on the 13 October. Might be superseded by latest announcement.

As to planning to introduce testing at SNN, that probably makes sense; introduce it at a less busy airport, so as to iron out the kinks and get it it working there before bringing it in at DUB.
 
EIBusiness
Posts: 204
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 1:47 pm

Re: Irish 10/20: Bad news on the doorstep

Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:42 pm

EIBPI wrote:
The way things are going they might as well just close the airports for the winter, just keeping one Dublin terminal open.


I agree, because soon enough Ireland will be an economic wasteland. Some of the most draconian travel advisory policies in the world, huge suppression of inbound tourism and travel etc. during the summer and here we are with an epidemiological situation in Ireland that's worsening by the hour. Great for the media, which by the way repeatedly shows people NOT wearing face masks in many settings in Ireland. But better to shut it down of course, rather than invest heavily behind preventative testing or promote mask wearing, especially when you consider that Ireland has some of the lowest healthcare capacity per capita in the developed western world.

Many of the medical professionals idolize this notion of "Zero COVID". Ireland is not New Zealand and "Zero COVID" will never happen! Flight schedules for next summer are equally not worth the paper they are written on - because private consumption in Ireland will at that point be devastated. All against a backdrop of reducing government income supports over the same period.

Many are now starting to realize the stark reality of this situation - enormous government deficit, no healthcare capacity, no surge capacity, no coherent program for restoring international travel, no credible testing facilities despite talking about it for six months, leak after leak of information with Medics as pilot in command and no cross industry considerations for any of these actions.

I said it many months ago and I will repeat it again - this crisis will make the 2008/2009 crisis look mild.
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