Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 7
 
Qantas16
Posts: 781
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:51 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:02 am

kriskim wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
If I recall, EY was underperforming at BNE in the 6-9 months prior to the pandemic hitting its height, so not really a surprise considering EY were also undergoing their own bankruptcy restructuring to fix up Hogan's mess.

On the other hand, it would also strengthen QR's case to serve BNE on a full-time basis now that EY is departing the market.


That's quite harsh if it was underperforming in better times. Even EK decided to axe BNE-SIN-DXB before all this mess. BNE a very marginal destination for airlines like EY, TG, MH, with the later two also in bad financial health they could be the next to go as well.

Fingers crossed that QR is able to gain permanent rights into BNE, they seem to be very keen.


Not necessarily just BNE but it wouldn't surprise me to see more triangle or tag-on routes return post-COVID. Routes like BKK-BNE-AKL / BKK-SYD-BNE-BKK were not unusual ~10 years ago. Whilst TG probably won't come back to BNE/PER for a while, we have already seen SQ do SIN-SYD-BNE-SIN, similar routings on carriers like MH/CX/TG/PR would not surprise me post-COVID - particularly for BNE/ADL but could also see MEL/SYD combinations (e.g. MNL-SYD-MEL-MNL).

I don't think these would be long-term, but it means the airline doesn't have to shut-down a station only to reopen it later and maintains presence in the market.
 
Obzerva
Posts: 503
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:48 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:01 am

Qantas16 wrote:
kriskim wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
If I recall, EY was underperforming at BNE in the 6-9 months prior to the pandemic hitting its height, so not really a surprise considering EY were also undergoing their own bankruptcy restructuring to fix up Hogan's mess.

On the other hand, it would also strengthen QR's case to serve BNE on a full-time basis now that EY is departing the market.


That's quite harsh if it was underperforming in better times. Even EK decided to axe BNE-SIN-DXB before all this mess. BNE a very marginal destination for airlines like EY, TG, MH, with the later two also in bad financial health they could be the next to go as well.

Fingers crossed that QR is able to gain permanent rights into BNE, they seem to be very keen.


Not necessarily just BNE but it wouldn't surprise me to see more triangle or tag-on routes return post-COVID. Routes like BKK-BNE-AKL / BKK-SYD-BNE-BKK were not unusual ~10 years ago. Whilst TG probably won't come back to BNE/PER for a while, we have already seen SQ do SIN-SYD-BNE-SIN, similar routings on carriers like MH/CX/TG/PR would not surprise me post-COVID - particularly for BNE/ADL but could also see MEL/SYD combinations (e.g. MNL-SYD-MEL-MNL).

I don't think these would be long-term, but it means the airline doesn't have to shut-down a station only to reopen it later and maintains presence in the market.


I'm pretty sure the tag was how EY actually started BNE at a few days a week.
From memory, it was using an A330 via SIN, they only went direct from AUH when they received their 787s.
 
BNEFlyer
Posts: 267
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:41 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:24 am

Qantas16 wrote:
kriskim wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
If I recall, EY was underperforming at BNE in the 6-9 months prior to the pandemic hitting its height, so not really a surprise considering EY were also undergoing their own bankruptcy restructuring to fix up Hogan's mess.

On the other hand, it would also strengthen QR's case to serve BNE on a full-time basis now that EY is departing the market.


That's quite harsh if it was underperforming in better times. Even EK decided to axe BNE-SIN-DXB before all this mess. BNE a very marginal destination for airlines like EY, TG, MH, with the later two also in bad financial health they could be the next to go as well.

Fingers crossed that QR is able to gain permanent rights into BNE, they seem to be very keen.


Not necessarily just BNE but it wouldn't surprise me to see more triangle or tag-on routes return post-COVID. Routes like BKK-BNE-AKL / BKK-SYD-BNE-BKK were not unusual ~10 years ago. Whilst TG probably won't come back to BNE/PER for a while, we have already seen SQ do SIN-SYD-BNE-SIN, similar routings on carriers like MH/CX/TG/PR would not surprise me post-COVID - particularly for BNE/ADL but could also see MEL/SYD combinations (e.g. MNL-SYD-MEL-MNL).

I don't think these would be long-term, but it means the airline doesn't have to shut-down a station only to reopen it later and maintains presence in the market.

SQ288 (SIN-SYD-BNE-SIN) is a cargo flight.
 
User avatar
bjwonline
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:10 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:29 am

I wonder if we will see more announcements for the removal of quarantine for arrivals like with those from NZ? The Pacific Island nations must surely be a contender with low levels of risk. Australia picks up willing workers to carry out agriculture work in Australia and the Island nations need for travellers to spend holiday money into their tourism dependant economies?
Plus, gets even more flights back in the air bringing even more airline employees back to their previous roles, leaving the secondary employment they found to fill the gap while stood down. This then creates more domestic job vacancies for the genuinely unemployed.
 
User avatar
SCFlyer
Posts: 649
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:39 am

Speaking of tags PR used to operate MNL-SYD-MEL-MNL and MNL-MEL-SYD-MNL on a 4/3 frequency to offer "daily" frequency out of Australia. This was before SYD/MEL was decoupled and PR attempted their first BNE comeback (via DRW) on a A320/A321, plus the short lived PER via DRW flight.

QF also had the long serving SYD-MNL-BNE-SYD and SYD-BNE-MNL-SYD rotations twice weekly (in addition to their 5x weekly SYD-MNL-SYD rotations) before those frequencies were eventually changed to simple SYD-MNL-SYD rotations. MNL in addition to CGK were subject to frequent aircraft changes by QF back in those years. Both were normally served with the 763s but were frequently changed to 74L(sp), 743, A333 etc before the A333s took over full time.
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1684
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:00 am

SCFlyer wrote:
Speaking of tags PR used to operate MNL-SYD-MEL-MNL and MNL-MEL-SYD-MNL on a 4/3 frequency to offer "daily" frequency out of Australia. This was before SYD/MEL was decoupled and PR attempted their first BNE comeback (via DRW) on a A320/A321, plus the short lived PER via DRW flight.

QF also had the long serving SYD-MNL-BNE-SYD and SYD-BNE-MNL-SYD rotations twice weekly (in addition to their 5x weekly SYD-MNL-SYD rotations) before those frequencies were eventually changed to simple SYD-MNL-SYD rotations. MNL in addition to CGK were subject to frequent aircraft changes by QF back in those years. Both were normally served with the 763s but were frequently changed to 74L(sp), 743, A333 etc before the A333s took over full time.

Triangular routes are potentially problematic if inbound loads to the second port and outbound loads from the first port are both strong on any given day. You can end up having to turn pax because the shortest sector is full while the longer sectors may be relatively lightly loaded. So they're not necessarily a panacea for these times.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
User avatar
RyanairGuru
Posts: 8506
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:46 am

Obzerva wrote:
Qantas16 wrote:
kriskim wrote:

That's quite harsh if it was underperforming in better times. Even EK decided to axe BNE-SIN-DXB before all this mess. BNE a very marginal destination for airlines like EY, TG, MH, with the later two also in bad financial health they could be the next to go as well.

Fingers crossed that QR is able to gain permanent rights into BNE, they seem to be very keen.


Not necessarily just BNE but it wouldn't surprise me to see more triangle or tag-on routes return post-COVID. Routes like BKK-BNE-AKL / BKK-SYD-BNE-BKK were not unusual ~10 years ago. Whilst TG probably won't come back to BNE/PER for a while, we have already seen SQ do SIN-SYD-BNE-SIN, similar routings on carriers like MH/CX/TG/PR would not surprise me post-COVID - particularly for BNE/ADL but could also see MEL/SYD combinations (e.g. MNL-SYD-MEL-MNL).

I don't think these would be long-term, but it means the airline doesn't have to shut-down a station only to reopen it later and maintains presence in the market.


I'm pretty sure the tag was how EY actually started BNE at a few days a week.
From memory, it was using an A330 via SIN, they only went direct from AUH when they received their 787s.


It actually started with a 3 weekly 77W via SIN, and then switched to an A330 and slowly increased to daily via SIN.

Thanks to StefanP for correcting me that AUH-SYD came first. A Google search confirms that SYD did indeed launch in March 2007. I always thought BNE was first, and have spent the last 13 years somewhat confused about why they launched BNE before SYD or MEL, so that clears up some of that confusion for me!!
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
anstar
Posts: 3310
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:21 am

bjwonline wrote:
I wonder if we will see more announcements for the removal of quarantine for arrivals like with those from NZ? The Pacific Island nations must surely be a contender with low levels of risk. Australia picks up willing workers to carry out agriculture work in Australia and the Island nations need for travellers to spend holiday money into their tourism dependant economies?
Plus, gets even more flights back in the air bringing even more airline employees back to their previous roles, leaving the secondary employment they found to fill the gap while stood down. This then creates more domestic job vacancies for the genuinely unemployed.


It will only work if the bubble is reciprocal.
 
budgetflyer
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri May 10, 2019 8:28 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:24 am

Some new adds from Hobart.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... -sep-2020/


https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... -dec-2020/

Good to see some more intrastate services. Hopefully these flights will stick around post-COVID.
 
CBRboy
Posts: 182
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:03 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:23 pm

There have been a few unusual flights operating in recent months in Australian skies, and I thought that I had just stumbled on an example tonight. FlightAware shows three China Airlines A330s in line astern heading from Sydney to Taipei this evening, a few kilometres apart. Interrogating the app, I see that this has been a regular pattern recently, with CI 56, CI 52 and CI 2052 all scheduled for evening departures. Does anyone know how long thiis has been the case? A result of the pandemic? Surely an argument for use of larger equipment?
 
BNEFlyer
Posts: 267
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:41 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 4:51 am

CBRboy wrote:
There have been a few unusual flights operating in recent months in Australian skies, and I thought that I had just stumbled on an example tonight. FlightAware shows three China Airlines A330s in line astern heading from Sydney to Taipei this evening, a few kilometres apart. Interrogating the app, I see that this has been a regular pattern recently, with CI 56, CI 52 and CI 2052 all scheduled for evening departures. Does anyone know how long thiis has been the case? A result of the pandemic? Surely an argument for use of larger equipment?

CI2052 would be a cargo flight and I'm guessing the other two are as well as they don't show up on the SYD arrival/departure board. CI2051/2052 started on 16AUG20. CI55/56 and CI51/52 have been operating for a few years.
 
eamondzhang
Posts: 1884
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 5:32 am

Must be cargo flights using A333 as these birds are efficient and they need full freighters elsewhere.

And A333 pilots need work to somewhere - I'll place my bet that crew are doing round trips (with double sets of crew)

Michael
 
Obzerva
Posts: 503
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:48 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 5:37 am

Hadn't seen it posted.

Did Bain and Branson come to an agreement over the share of VA that Branson would acquire, I recall reading Bain were preferring 5% but ever the optimist Branson thought the $ was worth 10%
 
LTEN11
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:09 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:59 am

BNEFlyer wrote:
CBRboy wrote:
There have been a few unusual flights operating in recent months in Australian skies, and I thought that I had just stumbled on an example tonight. FlightAware shows three China Airlines A330s in line astern heading from Sydney to Taipei this evening, a few kilometres apart. Interrogating the app, I see that this has been a regular pattern recently, with CI 56, CI 52 and CI 2052 all scheduled for evening departures. Does anyone know how long thiis has been the case? A result of the pandemic? Surely an argument for use of larger equipment?

CI2052 would be a cargo flight and I'm guessing the other two are as well as they don't show up on the SYD arrival/departure board. CI2051/2052 started on 16AUG20. CI55/56 and CI51/52 have been operating for a few years.


Yer, these flights have been playing follow the leader for a while now. There was a stage were the only CI flight to SYD was only operating once or twice a week, with either the 333, or the 350, these 3 flights operate mainly with the 333, though occasionally the 350 will substitute. The flights would be mainly cargo related, though I would suspect that the CI51/CI52 flights would carry some passengers.

You would think that there is an argument for using larger equipment, though as has been mentioned, the larger aircraft are probably being used for mainly North American services and the freighters would be well and truly committed. The 330 seems to be performing the ad-hoc freighter role admirably.
 
Qantas16
Posts: 781
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:51 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:35 pm

BNEFlyer wrote:
SQ288 (SIN-SYD-BNE-SIN) is a cargo flight.


You are wrong. SQ288 is a passenger flight.

LTEN11 wrote:
BNEFlyer wrote:
CBRboy wrote:
There have been a few unusual flights operating in recent months in Australian skies, and I thought that I had just stumbled on an example tonight. FlightAware shows three China Airlines A330s in line astern heading from Sydney to Taipei this evening, a few kilometres apart. Interrogating the app, I see that this has been a regular pattern recently, with CI 56, CI 52 and CI 2052 all scheduled for evening departures. Does anyone know how long thiis has been the case? A result of the pandemic? Surely an argument for use of larger equipment?

CI2052 would be a cargo flight and I'm guessing the other two are as well as they don't show up on the SYD arrival/departure board. CI2051/2052 started on 16AUG20. CI55/56 and CI51/52 have been operating for a few years.


Yer, these flights have been playing follow the leader for a while now. There was a stage were the only CI flight to SYD was only operating once or twice a week, with either the 333, or the 350, these 3 flights operate mainly with the 333, though occasionally the 350 will substitute. The flights would be mainly cargo related, though I would suspect that the CI51/CI52 flights would carry some passengers.

You would think that there is an argument for using larger equipment, though as has been mentioned, the larger aircraft are probably being used for mainly North American services and the freighters would be well and truly committed. The 330 seems to be performing the ad-hoc freighter role admirably.


I believe only once a fortnight for passengers out of SYD on CI. They seem to be running fortnightly passenger services out of BNE, SYD and MEL in addition to the freighter flights (that are predominantly SYD). BR operates near-daily cargo flights out of BNE and fortnightly pax flights.
 
QantasA333
Posts: 481
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:21 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:11 pm

IndianicWorld wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
If I recall, EY was underperforming at BNE in the 6-9 months prior to the pandemic hitting its height, so not really a surprise considering EY were also undergoing their own bankruptcy restructuring to fix up Hogan's mess.

On the other hand, it would also strengthen QR's case to serve BNE on a full-time basis now that EY is departing the market.


Contrary to what some had believed, I had long ago been told that BNE wasn’t a top performer for EY, even at its peak.

SYD and MEL were stronger performers and saw EY take a far more aggressive market position over the years in those markets where higher yielding demand was easier to capture.

I agree though that it does strengthen the case for QR to be able to increase its frequencies to service BNE permanently. QR are in a better position to try and sustain services over the longer term, but who knows what will play out over the next few years once the dust settles as the aviation landscape will be very different. Which carriers will be left standing? Only time will tell.

So far the moves made by the Gulf carriers:

- EK permanently cease ADL services
- EY permanently cease BNE services
- QR temporarily added BNE services


Have heard on a local Adelaide forum that EK may be returning in May.
 
BNEFlyer
Posts: 267
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:41 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:37 am

Qantas16 wrote:
BNEFlyer wrote:
SQ288 (SIN-SYD-BNE-SIN) is a cargo flight.


You are wrong. SQ288 is a passenger flight.

LTEN11 wrote:
BNEFlyer wrote:
CI2052 would be a cargo flight and I'm guessing the other two are as well as they don't show up on the SYD arrival/departure board. CI2051/2052 started on 16AUG20. CI55/56 and CI51/52 have been operating for a few years.


Yer, these flights have been playing follow the leader for a while now. There was a stage were the only CI flight to SYD was only operating once or twice a week, with either the 333, or the 350, these 3 flights operate mainly with the 333, though occasionally the 350 will substitute. The flights would be mainly cargo related, though I would suspect that the CI51/CI52 flights would carry some passengers.

You would think that there is an argument for using larger equipment, though as has been mentioned, the larger aircraft are probably being used for mainly North American services and the freighters would be well and truly committed. The 330 seems to be performing the ad-hoc freighter role admirably.


I believe only once a fortnight for passengers out of SYD on CI. They seem to be running fortnightly passenger services out of BNE, SYD and MEL in addition to the freighter flights (that are predominantly SYD). BR operates near-daily cargo flights out of BNE and fortnightly pax flights.

It's listed as a passenger flight, just doesn't appear to be bookable on the SQ website. SQ265 is the cargo flight.
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2616
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:00 am

In a complete surprise to no one REX has complained following QFLink's announcement that it will commence services from Sydney to Merimbula by year's end. REX has notoriously charged extortionate fares on this route where it has held a monopoly so their complaining is true to form. I don't know how they expect to survive on golden triangle services where QF and VA will apply a blowtorch of competition like nothing they have seen before.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/qantas-challenges-rex-on-nsw-south-coast-route/news-story/ecf8b7c621d60e735aa8514cceccd0a1 - behind paywall
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
User avatar
RyanairGuru
Posts: 8506
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Fri Oct 09, 2020 10:06 am

tullamarine wrote:
In a complete surprise to no one REX has complained following QFLink's announcement that it will commence services from Sydney to Merimbula by year's end. REX has notoriously charged extortionate fares on this route where it has held a monopoly so their complaining is true to form. I don't know how they expect to survive on golden triangle services where QF and VA will apply a blowtorch of competition like nothing they have seen before.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/qantas-challenges-rex-on-nsw-south-coast-route/news-story/ecf8b7c621d60e735aa8514cceccd0a1 - behind paywall


I feel like the bigger news is that QantasLink are launching SYD-MIM! Has that been mentioned on here before???

If so then I completely missed it!
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
User avatar
eta unknown
Posts: 2900
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:24 pm

QantasA333 wrote:
Have heard on a local Adelaide forum that EK may be returning in May.


IMO unlikely considering they only recently made all the ADL staff redundant.
 
andrew1996
Posts: 138
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2020 6:41 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Fri Oct 09, 2020 6:09 pm

Curious why SQ will have more flights to MEL than SYD for this "winter" (Australian summer) even though MEL has suffered more from COVID than SYD and SYD was always a larger city for SQ than MEL. Is it because SQ is sensing less competition out of MEL? Also, who are currently flying outbound on these SQ flights out of Australia when Australian citizens/PR cannot leave (without exemption). There probably cant be that many tourists still left in Australia and expats in Australia probably aren't leaving now if they have not left already and if they do leave cannot reenter Australia etc.
 
eamondzhang
Posts: 1884
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Fri Oct 09, 2020 10:00 pm

andrew1996 wrote:
Curious why SQ will have more flights to MEL than SYD for this "winter" (Australian summer) even though MEL has suffered more from COVID than SYD and SYD was always a larger city for SQ than MEL. Is it because SQ is sensing less competition out of MEL? Also, who are currently flying outbound on these SQ flights out of Australia when Australian citizens/PR cannot leave (without exemption). There probably cant be that many tourists still left in Australia and expats in Australia probably aren't leaving now if they have not left already and if they do leave cannot reenter Australia etc.

Maybe cargo related? From my understanding MEL is bigger in terms of cargo. But happy to be corrected.

Michael
 
IndianicWorld
Posts: 3404
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 11:32 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Fri Oct 09, 2020 10:07 pm

eamondzhang wrote:
andrew1996 wrote:
Curious why SQ will have more flights to MEL than SYD for this "winter" (Australian summer) even though MEL has suffered more from COVID than SYD and SYD was always a larger city for SQ than MEL. Is it because SQ is sensing less competition out of MEL? Also, who are currently flying outbound on these SQ flights out of Australia when Australian citizens/PR cannot leave (without exemption). There probably cant be that many tourists still left in Australia and expats in Australia probably aren't leaving now if they have not left already and if they do leave cannot reenter Australia etc.

Maybe cargo related? From my understanding MEL is bigger in terms of cargo. But happy to be corrected.

Michael


At this stage, I would think it is cargo related as carrying passengers inbound is quite problematic due to caps. No one can rely on that to make flights profitable , so cargo becomes the key.

Given that it appears the federal government is now looking at the border remaining closed to most international arrivals through to the end of 2021, there will be many hard decisions that will likely have to be made by many carriers.

Given that the pandemic is actually increasing in its spread In many parts of the world, it is certainly a worrying outlook.
 
IndianicWorld
Posts: 3404
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 11:32 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Fri Oct 09, 2020 10:14 pm

eta unknown wrote:
QantasA333 wrote:
Have heard on a local Adelaide forum that EK may be returning in May.


IMO unlikely considering they only recently made all the ADL staff redundant.


Agree. Considering they appeared to permanently cancel service, any return would likely only come a few years down the track if at all.

Having EK and QR both in that market certainly made for interesting viewing, but demand wise, particularly high yield demand, was always a challenge in ADL.
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2616
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Fri Oct 09, 2020 10:21 pm

IndianicWorld wrote:
eta unknown wrote:
QantasA333 wrote:
Have heard on a local Adelaide forum that EK may be returning in May.


IMO unlikely considering they only recently made all the ADL staff redundant.


Agree. Considering they appeared to permanently cancel service, any return would likely only come a few years down the track if at all.

Having EK and QR both in that market certainly made for interesting viewing, but demand wise, particularly high yield demand, was always a challenge in ADL.

EK may return in years to come when they get their 789s. The 77W was too big to be profitable for EK in ADL.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
LTEN11
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:09 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Sat Oct 10, 2020 2:05 am

eamondzhang wrote:
andrew1996 wrote:
Curious why SQ will have more flights to MEL than SYD for this "winter" (Australian summer) even though MEL has suffered more from COVID than SYD and SYD was always a larger city for SQ than MEL. Is it because SQ is sensing less competition out of MEL? Also, who are currently flying outbound on these SQ flights out of Australia when Australian citizens/PR cannot leave (without exemption). There probably cant be that many tourists still left in Australia and expats in Australia probably aren't leaving now if they have not left already and if they do leave cannot reenter Australia etc.

Maybe cargo related? From my understanding MEL is bigger in terms of cargo. But happy to be corrected.

Michael


MEL and SYD will actually have the same number of flights by SQ. MEL is scheduled to have 12 weekly from DEC 1st and SYD will have 10 weekly direct to SIN and 2 weekly via BNE. The chances are that will change for both, as I really can't see there being that much demand by DEC 1st. As it is now SYD has 14 weekly SQ flights, plus freighters, it's just that most of the flights aren't carrying passengers and it is highly likely the current number of flights operating won't change, it's just that more will be allocated to carry passengers.
 
IndianicWorld
Posts: 3404
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 11:32 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Sat Oct 10, 2020 2:35 am

Agree that EK needs a smaller aircraft into ADL, as it did in a number of other markets around the globe even pre-COVID.

Many markets will take a long time to come back online, with a focus first on rebuilding the destinations that offer the best demand and yield potential. Other more marginal markets will take more time, but as business confidence builds, the environment for those flights will become more favourable for a return.

LTEN11 wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
andrew1996 wrote:
Curious why SQ will have more flights to MEL than SYD for this "winter" (Australian summer) even though MEL has suffered more from COVID than SYD and SYD was always a larger city for SQ than MEL. Is it because SQ is sensing less competition out of MEL? Also, who are currently flying outbound on these SQ flights out of Australia when Australian citizens/PR cannot leave (without exemption). There probably cant be that many tourists still left in Australia and expats in Australia probably aren't leaving now if they have not left already and if they do leave cannot reenter Australia etc.

Maybe cargo related? From my understanding MEL is bigger in terms of cargo. But happy to be corrected.

Michael


MEL and SYD will actually have the same number of flights by SQ. MEL is scheduled to have 12 weekly from DEC 1st and SYD will have 10 weekly direct to SIN and 2 weekly via BNE. The chances are that will change for both, as I really can't see there being that much demand by DEC 1st. As it is now SYD has 14 weekly SQ flights, plus freighters, it's just that most of the flights aren't carrying passengers and it is highly likely the current number of flights operating won't change, it's just that more will be allocated to carry passengers.


I would expect that the daily cap should at least increase once MEL comes back online as an inbound Pax option. As much as many just feel that the cap should be scrapped, given the risks involved, it’s politically not going to play out well. We have seen how things have gone in Victoria, and NSW were lucky it didn’t go the same way with some identified failures in their hotel quarantine system.

it’s very unlikely that considerable increases in capacity will be viable though until borders reopen, which is likely a long way away, with the only exception being travel bubble countries.

We are a long way from some internal borders opening up at this rate though, so it’s hard to see many moves ahead that will make things easier for airlines domestically or internationally.
 
soyuz
Posts: 91
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:35 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:24 am

SCFlyer wrote:
Speaking of tags PR used to operate MNL-SYD-MEL-MNL and MNL-MEL-SYD-MNL on a 4/3 frequency to offer "daily" frequency out of Australia. This was before SYD/MEL was decoupled and PR attempted their first BNE comeback (via DRW) on a A320/A321, plus the short lived PER via DRW flight.

QF also had the long serving SYD-MNL-BNE-SYD and SYD-BNE-MNL-SYD rotations twice weekly (in addition to their 5x weekly SYD-MNL-SYD rotations) before those frequencies were eventually changed to simple SYD-MNL-SYD rotations. MNL in addition to CGK were subject to frequent aircraft changes by QF back in those years. Both were normally served with the 763s but were frequently changed to 74L(sp), 743, A333 etc before the A333s took over full time.


I remember those days! My one and only flight on a DC-10 was SYD-MEL-MNL with PR back in 1993. The return flight routed via BNE, when the international terminal wasn’t more than a big shed.
 
BNEFlyer
Posts: 267
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:41 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Sat Oct 10, 2020 11:38 am

tullamarine wrote:
IndianicWorld wrote:
eta unknown wrote:

IMO unlikely considering they only recently made all the ADL staff redundant.


Agree. Considering they appeared to permanently cancel service, any return would likely only come a few years down the track if at all.

Having EK and QR both in that market certainly made for interesting viewing, but demand wise, particularly high yield demand, was always a challenge in ADL.

EK may return in years to come when they get their 789s. The 77W was too big to be profitable for EK in ADL.

EK were flying a 77L to ADL before they paused the route.
 
User avatar
eta unknown
Posts: 2900
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:39 pm

BNEFlyer wrote:
[
EK were flying a 77L to ADL before they paused the route.

I guess that was the first hint the route was marginal. Considering the recent exodus of people from SA (they lose a senate seat neat election) it's not surprising.
 
ADL77W
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:59 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Sat Oct 10, 2020 10:57 pm

eta unknown wrote:
BNEFlyer wrote:
[
EK were flying a 77L to ADL before they paused the route.

I guess that was the first hint the route was marginal. Considering the recent exodus of people from SA (they lose a senate seat neat election) it's not surprising.


Sorry, just thought I'd jump in here based on my username. Adelaide has not had a recent exodus at all, and is a fast growing city on a global scale - it just happens to be that places like Melbourne and Brisbane are growing more rapidly (meaning Adelaide's percentage of national population has shrunk). To clarify also, states can't lose Senate seats (they are split evenly), so this would be House of Reps.

If you track it over the period that both EK and QR were in Adelaide, you can see the market shift over time from EK to QR. Anecdotally, this occurred because people experienced both products and discovered the a359 was a much superior ride than a 10 abreast 777.

Pandemic or not though, EK were struggling not only due to excess capacity (and QR were about to upguage to a35k!!), but due to inferior product. Am sure though that they can co-exist though when Emirates can manage to right-size.

Each of our regular international services (especially those to Asia) were doing just fine before the pandemic (cx, cz, mh, sq and jq had all recently increased services) and I really hope they'll all be back!
 
qf2048
Posts: 126
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2016 3:16 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Sun Oct 11, 2020 12:44 am

I've noticed Rex have added a"6" to the start of their flight numbers in NSW. eg Lismore flight number is now, or going to be, ZL6317 instead of ZL317. I presume they're getting ready for their capital city flights which may be 3 digit flight numbers?
ZL,QF,KE,BA,AS,CX,FR,U2,W6,EI,IB,JL,AY,LH,AA,AC,FQ,DJ,JQ,LA,FJ,QS,NZ,NF,SB,PG,EK,AB,VA,MH,KA,VN
 
User avatar
eta unknown
Posts: 2900
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Sun Oct 11, 2020 5:51 am

ADL77W wrote:
eta unknown wrote:
BNEFlyer wrote:
[
EK were flying a 77L to ADL before they paused the route.

I guess that was the first hint the route was marginal. Considering the recent exodus of people from SA (they lose a senate seat neat election) it's not surprising.


Sorry, just thought I'd jump in here based on my username. Adelaide has not had a recent exodus at all, and is a fast growing city on a global scale - it just happens to be that places like Melbourne and Brisbane are growing more rapidly (meaning Adelaide's percentage of national population has shrunk). To clarify also, states can't lose Senate seats (they are split evenly), so this would be House of Reps.

If you track it over the period that both EK and QR were in Adelaide, you can see the market shift over time from EK to QR. Anecdotally, this occurred because people experienced both products and discovered the a359 was a much superior ride than a 10 abreast 777.

Pandemic or not though, EK were struggling not only due to excess capacity (and QR were about to upguage to a35k!!), but due to inferior product. Am sure though that they can co-exist though when Emirates can manage to right-size.

Each of our regular international services (especially those to Asia) were doing just fine before the pandemic (cx, cz, mh, sq and jq had all recently increased services) and I really hope they'll all be back!

My bad- it was a House of Reps seat and it was already lost before the last election (given to VIC). I don't think QR/EK had anything to do with aircraft type- QR drops thier fares more aggressively. People usually decide on price (not applicable to those on a-net). On the subject of capacity- every capital city in Australia had over capacity (I think the worst was PER).
 
User avatar
Chipmunk1973
Posts: 338
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:23 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Sun Oct 11, 2020 6:43 am

Speaking of Radelaide, has it become a bit of a hub for QF with the reduced flying schedule?

In mid August when some border restrictions had been reduced, I flew to DRW for a week. Just before my flight, QF reduced the direct flights between BNE and DRW, so my return ended up being DRW-ADL-BNE.

Beginning of next month I’m off to The Alice and my flight is BNE-ADL-ASP. Given the return is the reverse of this, I’ve added a few days in ADL to checkout some wine spots.
Cheers,
C1973


B707, B717, B727, B734, B737, B738, B743, B77W, A300, A320, A332, A333, A339, A388, BAe146, Cessna 206.
AN, EK, MI, QF, SB.
 
BNEFlyer
Posts: 267
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:41 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:38 am

eta unknown wrote:
BNEFlyer wrote:
[
EK were flying a 77L to ADL before they paused the route.

I guess that was the first hint the route was marginal. Considering the recent exodus of people from SA (they lose a senate seat neat election) it's not surprising.

The 77L was in use for months prior to Covid, and ADL was the only port in Australia to get the new EK J class.
 
Gangurru
Posts: 111
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:30 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:31 am

Chipmunk1973 wrote:
Speaking of Radelaide, has it become a bit of a hub for QF with the reduced flying schedule?


Firstly, hello from the NT and thanks for visiting!

Because NT and SA have had similar success in containing COVID, NT flights have been patterned through ADL. For example, a SYD-ASP-DRW flight became ADL-ASP-DRW to minimise infection risk, actual or perceived.

BNE-DRW is now back up to 16 weekly flights. You travelled at a time when bookings and schedules were still building after the hotspot revocation.

ASP-BNE is only 2 per week, but ADL is daily, so no surprises why you went that way.

It was great to see SYD-DRW flights return on Friday.
 
User avatar
EK413
Posts: 5592
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 3:11 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:03 am

If anyone is interested the 1st QF Freight A320F VHULD is scheduled to arrive XSP-PER 14/10 QF7300 ETA 14:30. The aircraft will then ferry PER-MEL on the 15/10 as QF7301 ETD0600 ETA12:30


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
User avatar
EK413
Posts: 5592
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 3:11 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Sun Oct 11, 2020 12:39 pm

EK413 wrote:
If anyone is interested the 1st QF Freight A320F VHULD is scheduled to arrive XSP-PER 14/10 QF7300 ETA 14:30. The aircraft will then ferry PER-MEL on the 15/10 as QF7301 ETD0600 ETA12:30


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Correction, A321F.

My bad had a long day.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
grh
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:37 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:58 pm

VH-ULD was added to register on 08/10
 
User avatar
Chipmunk1973
Posts: 338
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:23 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:05 pm

Gangurru wrote:
Chipmunk1973 wrote:
Speaking of Radelaide, has it become a bit of a hub for QF with the reduced flying schedule?


Firstly, hello from the NT and thanks for visiting!

Because NT and SA have had similar success in containing COVID, NT flights have been patterned through ADL. For example, a SYD-ASP-DRW flight became ADL-ASP-DRW to minimise infection risk, actual or perceived.

BNE-DRW is now back up to 16 weekly flights. You travelled at a time when bookings and schedules were still building after the hotspot revocation.

ASP-BNE is only 2 per week, but ADL is daily, so no surprises why you went that way.

It was great to see SYD-DRW flights return on Friday.


Hi Gangurru,

Thanks for that, that does make perfect sense to me now.

Darwin was my first visit to the NT and loved it. Litchfield NP was an amazing experience.
Cheers,
C1973


B707, B717, B727, B734, B737, B738, B743, B77W, A300, A320, A332, A333, A339, A388, BAe146, Cessna 206.
AN, EK, MI, QF, SB.
 
qf002
Posts: 3684
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:14 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:28 am

There is an An-124 on the ground at SYD today, RA-82042. I'm assuming it was bringing firefighting equipment in given the disassembled S-64 sitting at the next stand over. Departing to HNL late tonight.

I'd guess that SYD could be quite heavily utilised to support aerial firefighting operations this year given the lack of commercial traffic (even if some more domestic flights come back for the summer).
 
timtam
Posts: 312
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:02 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:40 pm

ADL77W wrote:
eta unknown wrote:
BNEFlyer wrote:
[
EK were flying a 77L to ADL before they paused the route.

I guess that was the first hint the route was marginal. Considering the recent exodus of people from SA (they lose a senate seat neat election) it's not surprising.


Sorry, just thought I'd jump in here based on my username. Adelaide has not had a recent exodus at all, and is a fast growing city on a global scale - it just happens to be that places like Melbourne and Brisbane are growing more rapidly (meaning Adelaide's percentage of national population has shrunk). To clarify also, states can't lose Senate seats (they are split evenly), so this would be House of Reps.

If you track it over the period that both EK and QR were in Adelaide, you can see the market shift over time from EK to QR. Anecdotally, this occurred because people experienced both products and discovered the a359 was a much superior ride than a 10 abreast 777.

Pandemic or not though, EK were struggling not only due to excess capacity (and QR were about to upguage to a35k!!), but due to inferior product. Am sure though that they can co-exist though when Emirates can manage to right-size.

Each of our regular international services (especially those to Asia) were doing just fine before the pandemic (cx, cz, mh, sq and jq had all recently increased services) and I really hope they'll all be back!


Spot on.

The EK product out of Adelaide was inferior to the QR product - particularly the business product. This was common knowledge to most flyers in Adelaide and QR was the preferred option for most travellers. There are always the price conscious travellers and they had no shortage of options out Adelaide. But they are not the ones who make flights profitable.

The other factor was the QF flights direct out of Perth. Why take an inferior EK business product out of Adelaide via Dubai when you can fly to Perth for a much superior business class product and go direct to London?

Adelaide is a very competitive market for flights to Europe - possibly the most competitive in Australia - because of its central location down south, the travellers can take direct flights out of Adelaide or route via Perth, Melbourne, Sydney or Brisbane without a lot of fuss or impact on flight times.
 
User avatar
CraigAnderson
Posts: 623
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:28 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:51 am

Rumours continue to swirl over a premature exit for Paul Scurrah, with reports that he is butting heads with Bain over Bain's efforts to drag Virgin Australia below the mid-market sector and firmly into low-cost territory. This is of course what a lot of people were speculating would happen, that Bain would use Scurrah as a familiar and trusted face to ensure it won control over Virgin, and then push him out in favour of ex-JQ CEO Jayne Hrdlicka.

Virgin Australia chief executive Paul Scurrah is reported to be in the departure lounge according to industry sources in Brisbane as the airline tries to defend serving an 80 cent tub of noodles to a $2500 business class passenger.

The news comes as analysts suggest that Bain Capital will take the airline further down market than expected and former Jetstar boss Jayne Hrdlicka will take over as chief executive.

Yesterday Virgin Australia was lashed on social media over the savage in-flight service cutbacks that see business class passengers being served up two-minute noodles.

It is understood that Mr Scurrah’s vision for the new Virgin Australia is at odds with that of new owners Bain Capital, which appears to now want to take the airline into the budget arena.

Ms Hrdlicka, also a former Bain executive recently relocated to Brisbane sparking speculation that she would take over from Mr Scurrah.


https://www.airlineratings.com/news/vir ... re-lounge/
 
User avatar
SCFlyer
Posts: 649
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:58 am

^ Starting to follow down a similar path if the allegations are confirmed.
If the allegations are confirmed, I would not be surprised if VA mk 2 follows another "Borghetti" type path with the mentioned former QF group (JQ) exec, but in the LCC direction..
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2616
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:01 am

SCFlyer wrote:
^ Starting to follow down a similar path if the allegations are confirmed.
If the allegations are confirmed, I would not be surprised if VA mk 2 follows another "Borghetti" type path with the mentioned former QF group (JQ) exec, but in the LCC direction..

Maybe we should wait to see if we get a more reliable source than the perennially average GT.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
User avatar
CraigAnderson
Posts: 623
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:28 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:41 am

tullamarine wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
Maybe we should wait to see if we get a more reliable source than the perennially average GT.


I only posted GT's blog as it was the only story I had see which wasn't behind a paywall, as we know GT doesn't 'break' stories but relies on other media, and I've since seen the story he 'copied' from at Business Insider and it's also up now at https://www.smh.com.au/business/compani ... 5652n.html as well as The Australian https://www.theaustralian.com.au/busine ... 0685e6db6e and Reuters https://uk.reuters.com/article/virgin-a ... KL4N2H5199.

Bottom line, it seems like Scurrah has been played well and truly by Bain. It looks like Virgin Australia Mk II is going to be more like Virgin Blue Mk II!
 
User avatar
CraigAnderson
Posts: 623
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:28 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:14 am

SMH now says "Virgin Australia boss Paul Scurrah is expected to announce his departure from the airline within days following the company's takeover by American private equity firm Bain Capital."

https://www.smh.com.au/business/compani ... 5652n.html

Can't understand why Bain didn't wait a few more weeks until it officially took ownership of Virgin Australia. Wonder what happened 'behind the scenes' to bring this to a head?
 
User avatar
Chipmunk1973
Posts: 338
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:23 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:18 am

Oh dear, what a shame for VA that they’re turning it in Australia’s version of Spirit. :(

I was considering taking a flight on VA in a J seat to see how they were these days compared to QF. I won’t be doing that if I’m going to be served cup noodles. Would rather spend the money on a night out and a 2am kebab. :lol:

I’ve done 5 flights in the last two months on QF, all of them in business. Even though the flight info at booking shows “Limited Refreshments”, each flight has been fully catered and the quality has been up there. About 4/5 of the meals would be equal to what you’d get in a QF Business Lounge or Qantas Club. The only omission to date has been no spirits; no big deal, they’ve had some decent red wines too.

Bain, as the new owner, are obviously entitled to make decisions about the business. But personally I see them losing more passengers if they think a business seat is just more legroom.
Cheers,
C1973


B707, B717, B727, B734, B737, B738, B743, B77W, A300, A320, A332, A333, A339, A388, BAe146, Cessna 206.
AN, EK, MI, QF, SB.
 
User avatar
PapaWhiskey
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:21 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:36 am

I've been a longtime fan of DJ/VA and intended to keep supporting them, however if these rumours are true and the new owners do renege on what they said they would do I won't support them once my travel credits are used. While I'm not a big customer so losing my business won't matter to them but if significant numbers of other customers feel they same they may not do well. The plans that were being touted by Paul Scurrah moving forward sounded like a good balance to retain loyal customers, maintain a decent level of service and quality at a reasonable price and taking advantage of a largely fresh start with less financial burdens.
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 11408
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:12 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
SMH now says "Virgin Australia boss Paul Scurrah is expected to announce his departure from the airline within days following the company's takeover by American private equity firm Bain Capital."

https://www.smh.com.au/business/compani ... 5652n.html

Can't understand why Bain didn't wait a few more weeks until it officially took ownership of Virgin Australia. Wonder what happened 'behind the scenes' to bring this to a head?


I have been told he is leaving, so it’s not a matter of if but when it will be announced, from the sounds of it Bain has used him to get what they want.

Personally this is highly disappointing, i think Bain will pay for it in a long run, from day 1 Paul started at Virgin he had always had the support of both the staff and customers, he was always very open, hands on, up front and didn’t sugarcoat anything
Forum Moderator
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 7

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos