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TTJonas
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:14 am

If VA move downmarket and leave the full service market all to QF, I expect QF will take the opportunity to cut costs in their product. Maybe they'll extend some of these 'temporary' changes into permanent enhancements.

After all, they're not swimming in cash right now, and they'll have a monopoly on their target market. What would a disgruntled customer do? Fly an alternative domestic full service carrier?
 
eamondzhang
Posts: 1923
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:18 am

TTJonas wrote:
If VA move downmarket and leave the full service market all to QF, I expect QF will take the opportunity to cut costs in their product. Maybe they'll extend some of these 'temporary' changes into permanent enhancements.

After all, they're not swimming in cash right now, and they'll have a monopoly on their target market. What would a disgruntled customer do? Fly an alternative domestic full service carrier?

If moves happen at VA could that be the time for ZL to move upwards on their mainline service? :stirthepot:

Afterall they're planning to have business class and they already got the lounges

Michael
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:42 am

Perhaps it's not a stretch that REX had decided to start capital city services after all, taking into consideration their own "mid-market" approach.

At least it can said that "VA joining Star Alliance" is finally "dead and buried", which probably isn't good news for the Star Alliance "fanboys".

Perhaps the "so-called saviour" SQ could work with the Singaporean owners of REX in the future if they wish to go beyond an interline agreement for a codeshare. It's not likely that SQ investing in the Australian market for the long term foreseeable future after their three failures over the past few decades (Air New Zealand group inc Ansett Australia, Tiger Airways Australia and now Virgin Australia).
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:49 am

eamondzhang wrote:
TTJonas wrote:
If VA move downmarket and leave the full service market all to QF, I expect QF will take the opportunity to cut costs in their product. Maybe they'll extend some of these 'temporary' changes into permanent enhancements.

After all, they're not swimming in cash right now, and they'll have a monopoly on their target market. What would a disgruntled customer do? Fly an alternative domestic full service carrier?

If moves happen at VA could that be the time for ZL to move upwards on their mainline service? :stirthepot:

Afterall they're planning to have business class and they already got the lounges

Michael


ZL "joiniing Star Alliance" in the future may not be that far of a stretch either, which depends on how REX goes on their jet services.

ZL also have a history with Star Alliance with their former owner (Through ZL's predecessors) being a former Star Alliance member.
 
Obzerva
Posts: 514
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:07 am

SCFlyer wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
TTJonas wrote:
If VA move downmarket and leave the full service market all to QF, I expect QF will take the opportunity to cut costs in their product. Maybe they'll extend some of these 'temporary' changes into permanent enhancements.

After all, they're not swimming in cash right now, and they'll have a monopoly on their target market. What would a disgruntled customer do? Fly an alternative domestic full service carrier?

If moves happen at VA could that be the time for ZL to move upwards on their mainline service? :stirthepot:

Afterall they're planning to have business class and they already got the lounges

Michael


ZL "joiniing Star Alliance" in the future may not be that far of a stretch either, which depends on how REX goes on their jet services.

ZL also have a history with Star Alliance with their former owner (Through ZL's predecessors) being a former Star Alliance member.


Re your last sentence, I really hope you're not referring to Hazelton and Kendell being Ansett subsidiaries almost 20 years ago, if so that is possibly one of the most tenuous links I've seen on here.
 
NZ801
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:21 am

SCFlyer wrote:
Perhaps it's not a stretch that REX had decided to start capital city services after all, taking into consideration their own "mid-market" approach.

At least it can said that "VA joining Star Alliance" is finally "dead and buried", which probably isn't good news for the Star Alliance "fanboys".

Perhaps the "so-called saviour" SQ could work with the Singaporean owners of REX in the future if they wish to go beyond an interline agreement for a codeshare. It's not likely that SQ investing in the Australian market for the long term foreseeable future after their three failures over the past few decades (Air New Zealand group inc Ansett Australia, Tiger Airways Australia and now Virgin Australia).


Why do you keep bringing this stuff up. It has no relevance to today’s speculation. So you were right about SQ. We get it. Move on.
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:45 pm

PS's departure to be formally announced shortly. JH expected to be named as replacement with the impending announcement of the new 'Virgin Blue' - it may not even be called Virgin considering the paywall news articles of Bain also shutting Branson out recently over naming rights.

The 9 year call of "Virgin Australia should join Star Alliance" by many analysts and FFs is safe to be considered "dead and buried".

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... esignation
 
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qf2220
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:49 pm

SCFlyer wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
TTJonas wrote:
If VA move downmarket and leave the full service market all to QF, I expect QF will take the opportunity to cut costs in their product. Maybe they'll extend some of these 'temporary' changes into permanent enhancements.

After all, they're not swimming in cash right now, and they'll have a monopoly on their target market. What would a disgruntled customer do? Fly an alternative domestic full service carrier?

If moves happen at VA could that be the time for ZL to move upwards on their mainline service? :stirthepot:

Afterall they're planning to have business class and they already got the lounges

Michael


ZL "joiniing Star Alliance" in the future may not be that far of a stretch either, which depends on how REX goes on their jet services.

ZL also have a history with Star Alliance with their former owner (Through ZL's predecessors) being a former Star Alliance member.


I love it - shut down he VA for Star Alliance Fanboys Club in one post, and in the very next one found the ZL for Star Alliance Fan Club!!
 
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CraigAnderson
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:58 pm

Announcement of Paul Scurrah's resignation could come in the next 60 minutes, Executive Traveller says.

https://twitter.com/AusBT/status/1316526729947537408
 
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CraigAnderson
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:02 am

And, it's official. Paul Scurrah is now an ex-Virgin, Jayne Hrdlicka taking over.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... esignation #aviation
 
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Chipmunk1973
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:16 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
And, it's official. Paul Scurrah is now an ex-Virgin, Jayne Hrdlicka taking over.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... esignation #aviation


I wonder how much of the executive team will follow him. Interesting times...
Cheers,
C1973


B707, B717, B727, B734, B737, B738, B743, B762, B763, B77W, A300, A320, A332, A333, A339, A388, BAe146, Cessna 206.
AN, EK, MI, QF, SB.
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:19 am

Chipmunk1973 wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
And, it's official. Paul Scurrah is now an ex-Virgin, Jayne Hrdlicka taking over.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... esignation #aviation


I wonder how much of the executive team will follow him. Interesting times...

Whilst sad, it can't be completely acrimonious given he has agreed to stay for another month until he deed of settlement is completed. If he was completely pi$$ed off, you'd have thought he would have left the building immediately.
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redroo
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:36 am

Not a surprise. His days were numbered.
 
aryonoco
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:40 am

Honestly, this doesn't surprise me. It's exactly what I expected, and what I would have done had I been running Bain as well.

The sale is done. Time to clear out the previous executive team and install your own people. I also don't see the point of paying royalties to Branson for the Virgin name.
 
VHOGU
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:50 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:44 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
And, it's official. Paul Scurrah is now an ex-Virgin, Jayne Hrdlicka taking over.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... esignation #aviation

What a joke. How devastating for the company and all of its employees. It’s so sad what Virgin has become since Bain got involved.
 
Ishrion
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:46 am

Virgin Australia PR: https://newsroom.virginaustralia.com/re ... alia-group

Just wondering, that 737-800 image in the press release - do any 738s in Virgin's fleet have split scimitars?
 
moa999
Posts: 1046
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:37 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:56 am

Become..
Bain hasn't gotten started yet. Don't have the keys.

Virgin had trialled the split scimtar retrofit on I believe five aircraft. Suspect no more.
 
Obzerva
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:59 am

Ishrion wrote:
Virgin Australia PR: https://newsroom.virginaustralia.com/re ... alia-group

Just wondering, that 737-800 image in the press release - do any 738s in Virgin's fleet have split scimitars?


They actually do:
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Virgin- ... %2BQIk5y5e
 
Foopz
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Joined: Fri May 29, 2020 10:22 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:19 am

Some interesting consequences if they go down the LCC route permanently - you'd expect all lounges to be axed, and some interesting terminal based changes, particularly in PER (They'll likely not want to pay to move back into T1D and will stay in T2 permanently).

TTJonas wrote:
If VA move downmarket and leave the full service market all to QF, I expect QF will take the opportunity to cut costs in their product. Maybe they'll extend some of these 'temporary' changes into permanent enhancements.?


I'd expect we won't see the business hard product touched in domestic until 738s / 332s are retired.
Will also likely mean that almost all trans-con services will get a permanent downgrade to 738's (even though the 5-weekly PER-MEL/SYD services are still A333s due to freight).
 
DeltaB717
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:25 am

moa999 wrote:
Become..
Bain hasn't gotten started yet. Don't have the keys.

Virgin had trialled the split scimtar retrofit on I believe five aircraft. Suspect no more.


I may be wrong, but I don't think they ever made it to five retrofits... IIRC only three (YIR, YIS, YIV) ended up being done? The other two (again from memory planned to be YIJ & YIQ) were planned but COVID interrupted? Happy to be proven wrong.

I'd like to echo QF789's comments that I find today's news personally disappointing... I hope I'm wrong but I don't see the VA of a couple of years' times being very much like the VA of earlier this year. I had hoped to see PS see his plan through but alas that's not to be. Sad day.
 
VHOGU
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:50 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:40 am

Ishrion wrote:
Virgin Australia PR: https://newsroom.virginaustralia.com/re ... alia-group

Just wondering, that 737-800 image in the press release - do any 738s in Virgin's fleet have split scimitars?

VH-YIS, YIR and YIV I believe. Not sure if there’s any more. Pre covid they announced they were trialling them on 5 aircraft.
 
melpax
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:29 am

A blast from the past - the opening of the TAA terminal at SYD back in 1974.

A far cry from the current QF domestic terminal...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoD9VCtGDh0
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:14 am

VHOGU wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Virgin Australia PR: https://newsroom.virginaustralia.com/re ... alia-group

Just wondering, that 737-800 image in the press release - do any 738s in Virgin's fleet have split scimitars?

VH-YIS, YIR and YIV I believe. Not sure if there’s any more. Pre covid they announced they were trialling them on 5 aircraft.
I believe all the YI* fleet are owned so will remain going forward. They are the youngest owned birds in the VA fleet.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:14 am

aryonoco wrote:
Honestly, this doesn't surprise me. It's exactly what I expected, and what I would have done had I been running Bain as well.

The sale is done. Time to clear out the previous executive team and install your own people. I also don't see the point of paying royalties to Branson for the Virgin name.


I think it was a bit two faced of Bain not to be clear from the outset what direction they were taking. The fact that Jayne Hrdlycka was sitting in the wings was always known, but in August the talk was that Scurrah would stay and the model moving forward would be broadly along the lines he had laid out. I think it would have sat better with people if Bain had sad from day one that Hrdlycka would take over and going forward the airline would be Jetstar plus rather than Qantas minus. I think the only reason to play this charade was because the employees had a very powerful voice as unsecured creditors, and Bain played Scurrah to get them onside and then removed him once they had (almost) full control.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
xiaotung
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:59 am

aryonoco wrote:
Honestly, this doesn't surprise me. It's exactly what I expected, and what I would have done had I been running Bain as well.

The sale is done. Time to clear out the previous executive team and install your own people. I also don't see the point of paying royalties to Branson for the Virgin name.


Wasn't it confirmed that Branson would take a 5% stake in the new company? If so, can't see the Virgin name going anywhere.
 
VHOGU
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:03 am

tullamarine wrote:
I believe all the YI* fleet are owned so will remain going forward. They are the youngest owned birds in the VA fleet.

The YW* aircraft newer. And some of the YF* I think they own a few those.
 
SYDSpotter
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:26 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
And, it's official. Paul Scurrah is now an ex-Virgin, Jayne Hrdlicka taking over.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... esignation #aviation


So first JB and now JH to take on their former boss at VA. Perhaps AJ will reinstate the axed QF Intl CEO role and bring Scurrah on board to complete the merry-go-round :rotfl:
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anstar
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:08 am

xiaotung wrote:
aryonoco wrote:
Honestly, this doesn't surprise me. It's exactly what I expected, and what I would have done had I been running Bain as well.

The sale is done. Time to clear out the previous executive team and install your own people. I also don't see the point of paying royalties to Branson for the Virgin name.


Wasn't it confirmed that Branson would take a 5% stake in the new company? If so, can't see the Virgin name going anywhere.


5% isn't a controlling stake in the airline. So as much as Branson would like to sit back and take the royalties for the name - it's not his decision. If Bain are so hot on costs you can be sure the days of paying naming rights are coming to an end.
 
xiaotung
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:57 am

anstar wrote:
xiaotung wrote:
aryonoco wrote:
Honestly, this doesn't surprise me. It's exactly what I expected, and what I would have done had I been running Bain as well.

The sale is done. Time to clear out the previous executive team and install your own people. I also don't see the point of paying royalties to Branson for the Virgin name.


Wasn't it confirmed that Branson would take a 5% stake in the new company? If so, can't see the Virgin name going anywhere.


5% isn't a controlling stake in the airline. So as much as Branson would like to sit back and take the royalties for the name - it's not his decision. If Bain are so hot on costs you can be sure the days of paying naming rights are coming to an end.


Just saying, if he knew they would not keep the Virgin name why would he still invest in it?
 
JQ321
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:20 am

xiaotung wrote:
anstar wrote:
xiaotung wrote:

Wasn't it confirmed that Branson would take a 5% stake in the new company? If so, can't see the Virgin name going anywhere.


5% isn't a controlling stake in the airline. So as much as Branson would like to sit back and take the royalties for the name - it's not his decision. If Bain are so hot on costs you can be sure the days of paying naming rights are coming to an end.


Just saying, if he knew they would not keep the Virgin name why would he still invest in it?

He wouldn't
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:48 am

The Branson investment into "Bain Air" (aka VA mk 2) was never confirmed.

The only news reports found is that Branson was wanting 10% but Bain was only offering 5%
 
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Chipmunk1973
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:36 am

I thought I was being slightly “tongue in cheek” when I commented yesterday that Bain was turning VA into Spirit (NK). Maybe they can call the new product Lyin’ Air. :rotfl:

I know it’s far too easy to be an “armchair CEO”, but here’s my thoughts on what they could have done:

1: Remove any aircraft from the fleet except 737s.
(a): reconfigure the 737-700 to 16J seats for the SYD-CBR and MEL-CBR flights.
(b): reconfigure 2/3 737-800 to 12J seats, the remaining 1/3 to 8J.
2. Retain lounges in ADL, BNE, CBR, DRW, OOL, MEL, PER, SYD, WEL.
(a): Open new lounges in AKL and HBA.
(b): Partition the lounges so that one portion is assigned to VA Business and Frequent Flyers and the remainder is under a new umbrella which, for descriptive purposes we’ll call “Virgin Experience”. Entry to the “Experience” lounge is on a flat fee basis, irrespective of which airline you fly. As an example, AU$50 buys you the food, drinks, work desks, etc. AU$70 gives you access to showers, where available. (AU$30 access to lounges before 11am, no alcohol service).
(c): I believe the lounge to be essential if VA want to move back to international flying outside of NZ and the South Pacific, as per Scurrah’s long term plans.
3. Reallocate the 737 deposits to 787-9’s for delivery beyond 2023/24 to enable flights from BNE/MEL/SYD to LAX and MEL/SYD to HND.

I could be completely delusional but the above seems to be both common sense and achievable. Happy to be instructed otherwise by anyone more in the know or anyone with a counter argument.

Thanks.
Cheers,
C1973


B707, B717, B727, B734, B737, B738, B743, B762, B763, B77W, A300, A320, A332, A333, A339, A388, BAe146, Cessna 206.
AN, EK, MI, QF, SB.
 
qf002
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:44 am

How does Bain intend to maintain any international operations now that only 2% of the airline is held in Australia?

This justifies a legal challenge by QF given Virgin is now indisputably owned and controlled off-shore. At least in the past there seemed to be a fairly robust local management team and a decent percentage of the airline was locally owned (even if not a full majority).
 
aschachter
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:52 am

Given the Federal Government is looking to organise for more Australians to be able to return home to Australia from overseas (England and India have been mentioned) and quarantine in Darwin, are we looking at just extra seats on current flights or are they planning repatriation flights operated by Qantas ?

I am guessing if it is Qantas, they mean A330s to india and 787s to the UK

https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-a ... c24a24f6ac
 
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ClassicLover
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:27 am

qf002 wrote:
How does Bain intend to maintain any international operations now that only 2% of the airline is held in Australia?

This justifies a legal challenge by QF given Virgin is now indisputably owned and controlled off-shore. At least in the past there seemed to be a fairly robust local management team and a decent percentage of the airline was locally owned (even if not a full majority).


It's always been structured in such a way that they have circumvented the law when it comes to international services at Virgin Australia. They were majority overseas held before they went into administration.

I don't think Qantas will honestly care (they certainly didn't before, either!), as it will be years before Virgin Australia becomes anything like a competitor on overseas services.
I do enjoy a spot of flying, especially when it's not in economy!
 
SYDSpotter
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:01 pm

qf002 wrote:
At least in the past there seemed to be a fairly robust local management team and a decent percentage of the airline was locally owned (even if not a full majority).


A decent % as in 10%?

Prior to COVID, 90% off VA was owned by SQ/EY/HNA GROUP/Nanshan, all foreign entities, the remaining 10% was free float on the ASX. Bain coming in doesn't really change the equation. VA can still fly international routes due to a complex corporate spinoff it did years ago. The legal eagles who came up with the plan certainly earned their paypacket. In a nutshell, the shares of Virgin Australia International (VAI) which will operate the international flights are majority owned by Australians, however the shares are basically worthless because VA provide aircraft and all services to VAI, and in return VAI pays a "management fee" back to VA (i.e all the revenue).

https://www.virginaustralia.com/au/en/a ... STRUCTURE/

QF is not going to lodge legal action, it argued its case through the media years ago that structure was basically a sham, which it is. But legally, it has legs to stand on so this issue is not going to see the light of day again
Last edited by SYDSpotter on Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:01 pm

ClassicLover wrote:
qf002 wrote:
How does Bain intend to maintain any international operations now that only 2% of the airline is held in Australia?

This justifies a legal challenge by QF given Virgin is now indisputably owned and controlled off-shore. At least in the past there seemed to be a fairly robust local management team and a decent percentage of the airline was locally owned (even if not a full majority).


It's always been structured in such a way that they have circumvented the law when it comes to international services at Virgin Australia. They were majority overseas held before they went into administration.

I don't think Qantas will honestly care (they certainly didn't before, either!), as it will be years before Virgin Australia becomes anything like a competitor on overseas services.


I do think that Qantas "cared" before (if they could have knocked out a competitor for the cost of a couple of hundred thousand dollars in legal fees on a Federal Court case I think they would have done so) but that fight had been fought and lost with Ansett.

In the future though, unless they want to claim that Virgin International is owned by the Queensland Government, it is going to be much harder to structure the international business as being "Australian owned".

This is just asking for headlines in the Courier-Mail about Queenslanders "subsidising" people in Sydney and Melbourne going on holiday. It won't be true, but will no doubt cause a stir.
Last edited by RyanairGuru on Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:06 pm

SYDSpotter wrote:
qf002 wrote:
At least in the past there seemed to be a fairly robust local management team and a decent percentage of the airline was locally owned (even if not a full majority).


A decent % as in 10%?

Prior to COVID, 90% off VA was owned by SQ/EY/HNA GROUP/Nanshan, all foreign entities, the remaining 10% was free float on the ASX. Bain coming in doesn't really change the equation. VA can still fly international routes due to a complex corporate spinoff it did years ago. The legal eagles who came up with the plan certainly earned their paypacket. In a nutshell, the shares of Virgin Australia International (VAI) which will operate the international flights are majority owned by Australians, however the shares are basically worthless because VA provide aircraft and all services to VAI, and in return VAI pays a "management fee" back to VA (i.e all the revenue).

https://www.virginaustralia.com/au/en/a ... STRUCTURE/

QF is not going to lodge legal action, it argued its case through the media years ago that structure was basically a sham, which it is. But legally, it has legs to stand on so this issue is not going to see the light of day again


Then was then, and now is now. Administration wipes out the existing shareholders.

The Queensland Government is the only Australian shareholder in the new company.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
qf002
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:33 pm

SYDSpotter wrote:
qf002 wrote:
At least in the past there seemed to be a fairly robust local management team and a decent percentage of the airline was locally owned (even if not a full majority).


A decent % as in 10%?


Well it's five times the level of ownership that will be in place moving forward.

I understand how the structure of VAH and VAH works, my point was more that the optics are now significantly different which might change things. What looked and felt like an Australian operation backed by a bunch of bickering foreign investors now looks very much like a foreign operation.

The laws exist for a reason and should either be enforced for all carriers or scrapped for all carriers.
 
ben175
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:10 pm

2021 is going to be one hell of an interesting year for Australian aviation with the Virgin and Rex shakeups.
 
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qf2220
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:40 pm

Given how vanilla 2014-2019 had been, then bring on the change!
 
aschachter
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:07 pm

aschachter wrote:
Given the Federal Government is looking to organise for more Australians to be able to return home to Australia from overseas (England and India have been mentioned) and quarantine in Darwin, are we looking at just extra seats on current flights or are they planning repatriation flights operated by Qantas ?

I am guessing if it is Qantas, they mean A330s to india and 787s to the UK

https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-a ... c24a24f6ac


My questions looks like it has been answered, they will be 787s

https://www.executivetraveller.com/qant ... -to-darwin
 
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EK413
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:51 pm

Qantas VHZNL has ferried off to her new home at Victorville.

Check out playback of flight BOE280 from Everett to Victorville on Flightradar24.
https://fr24.com/data/flights/boe280#25c83262


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Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
SYDSpotter
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Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:10 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:11 am

qf002 wrote:
Well it's five times the level of ownership that will be in place moving forward. I understand how the structure of VAH and VAH works, my point was more that the optics are now significantly different which might change things. What looked and felt like an Australian operation backed by a bunch of bickering foreign investors now looks very much like a foreign operation. The laws exist for a reason and should either be enforced for all carriers or scrapped for all carriers.


The level of Australian ownership of VA may have been 5 times more than what it will be going forward, but 10% vs 2% doesn't move the dial when it comes to assessing control/ownership.

98% vs 90% foreign owned, its still well and truly foreign owned. The "optics" have not changed at all.
319_320_321_332_333_359_388 / 734_737_738_743_744_762_763_772_773_77W_788_789
 
anstar
Posts: 3363
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:37 am

xiaotung wrote:
anstar wrote:
xiaotung wrote:

Wasn't it confirmed that Branson would take a 5% stake in the new company? If so, can't see the Virgin name going anywhere.


5% isn't a controlling stake in the airline. So as much as Branson would like to sit back and take the royalties for the name - it's not his decision. If Bain are so hot on costs you can be sure the days of paying naming rights are coming to an end.


Just saying, if he knew they would not keep the Virgin name why would he still invest in it?


He likely didn't. Just like the employees weren't told they would have a 40% paycut. IF Bain are as ruthless as everyone makes out, paying royalties for a brand isn't something they would be likely to do.
 
NZ801
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:06 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:24 am

Seems like the Australia - NZ bubble has had a shaky start with 14 people detained in MEL today. Apparently they flew from SYD after landing from NZ - according to the ABC. Not much more than that at the moment.
 
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EK413
Posts: 5653
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Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:29 am

NZ801 wrote:
Seems like the Australia - NZ bubble has had a shaky start with 14 people detained in MEL today. Apparently they flew from SYD after landing from NZ - according to the ABC. Not much more than that at the moment.

My understanding the travel bubble is between NZ - Australia - New South Wales & Northern Territory only.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.abc ... e/12777080

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IndianicWorld
Posts: 3424
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:41 am

VA would need to go through a costly rebrand, which Bain would need to weigh up.

The royalty fee may well be renegotiated as their first plan, and if that doesn’t work, investing money to rebrand now to save money in the medium to longer term for the airline (whom ever owns it at that point) may make some sense.

EK413 wrote:
NZ801 wrote:
Seems like the Australia - NZ bubble has had a shaky start with 14 people detained in MEL today. Apparently they flew from SYD after landing from NZ - according to the ABC. Not much more than that at the moment.

My understanding the travel bubble is between NZ - Australia - New South Wales & Northern Territory only.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.abc ... e/12777080

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With such minimal numbers coming through, one would think those things should be checked first.

It’s not even really a bubble, just a way for NZ’ers to enter Australia and need to quarantine when they do home. It’s a slight door opening but a long way to go until it can really bring significant benefits.
 
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RyanairGuru
Posts: 8644
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:54 am

EK413 wrote:
NZ801 wrote:
Seems like the Australia - NZ bubble has had a shaky start with 14 people detained in MEL today. Apparently they flew from SYD after landing from NZ - according to the ABC. Not much more than that at the moment.

My understanding the travel bubble is between NZ - Australia - New South Wales & Northern Territory only.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.abc ... e/12777080

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


And ACT, for what that's worth.

As IndianicWorld said it's not really a "bubble", as NZ won't reciprocate.

It's hard to see what risk these 14 people pose coming from a place with less cases with NSW, but it does undermine any assurances that a real bubble would be limited to just low-risk states. That makes it less likely that NZ will open up to Australia.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
xiaotung
Posts: 1099
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 7:58 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:06 am

NZ801 wrote:
Seems like the Australia - NZ bubble has had a shaky start with 14 people detained in MEL today. Apparently they flew from SYD after landing from NZ - according to the ABC. Not much more than that at the moment.


Once they arrive in SYD, there is nothing stopping them from taking a domestic flight to MEL. All domestic flight checks are done on arrival. If they were not trying to game the system then it was purely down to stupidity. I guess they will either be given the option of buying another ticket going back to SYD immediately or go into hotel quarantine. However if they spend 14 days in NSW or NT, perhaps then they will be free to go anywhere?
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