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IndianicWorld
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:30 am

xiaotung wrote:
NZ801 wrote:
Seems like the Australia - NZ bubble has had a shaky start with 14 people detained in MEL today. Apparently they flew from SYD after landing from NZ - according to the ABC. Not much more than that at the moment.


Once they arrive in SYD, there is nothing stopping them from taking a domestic flight to MEL. All domestic flight checks are done on arrival. If they were not trying to game the system then it was purely down to stupidity. I guess they will either be given the option of buying another ticket going back to SYD immediately or go into hotel quarantine. However if they spend 14 days in NSW or NT, perhaps then they will be free to go anywhere?


Given Vic and NSW are around the same in terms of new cases over the past few few days, it’s interesting to watch , but yes at this stage though it is hard to see what those travelers can do. They will likely have to quarantine for 14 days in NSW, and then another 14 days once back in NZ. Expensive outcome having to pay for quarantine in NSW though.

I’m sure they will want to ensure it sends a clear message to others that may either by mistake or deliberately try this in future. If the main purpose was to be in Victoria though going back to NSW won’t help.
 
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Chipmunk1973
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:56 am

NZ801 wrote:
Seems like the Australia - NZ bubble has had a shaky start with 14 people detained in MEL today. Apparently they flew from SYD after landing from NZ - according to the ABC. Not much more than that at the moment.


Just WOW. How stupid do you have to be?
Cheers,
C1973


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xiaotung
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:16 pm

IndianicWorld wrote:
xiaotung wrote:
NZ801 wrote:
Seems like the Australia - NZ bubble has had a shaky start with 14 people detained in MEL today. Apparently they flew from SYD after landing from NZ - according to the ABC. Not much more than that at the moment.


Once they arrive in SYD, there is nothing stopping them from taking a domestic flight to MEL. All domestic flight checks are done on arrival. If they were not trying to game the system then it was purely down to stupidity. I guess they will either be given the option of buying another ticket going back to SYD immediately or go into hotel quarantine. However if they spend 14 days in NSW or NT, perhaps then they will be free to go anywhere?


Given Vic and NSW are around the same in terms of new cases over the past few few days, it’s interesting to watch , but yes at this stage though it is hard to see what those travelers can do. They will likely have to quarantine for 14 days in NSW, and then another 14 days once back in NZ. Expensive outcome having to pay for quarantine in NSW though.

I’m sure they will want to ensure it sends a clear message to others that may either by mistake or deliberately try this in future. If the main purpose was to be in Victoria though going back to NSW won’t help.


I know BNE allows direct transit even if you come from a hotspot as long as you leave on another flight leaving QLD. For some odd reason, they don't classify airports as hotspot. So if they are lucky perhaps NSW will not require them to quarantine if they are sent straight back. Have they got themselves into this situation no one had thought of!
 
qf002
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:12 pm

SYDSpotter wrote:
The "optics" have not changed at all.


In my opinion they have (and potentially quite significantly depending on how far Bain takes a potential rebranding), we don't have to agree.
 
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ClassicLover
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:15 pm

Chipmunk1973 wrote:
NZ801 wrote:
Seems like the Australia - NZ bubble has had a shaky start with 14 people detained in MEL today. Apparently they flew from SYD after landing from NZ - according to the ABC. Not much more than that at the moment.


Just WOW. How stupid do you have to be?


In reality, I can understand their thoughts. I am from NZ, I am free of Covid, I arrive in Australia and am let in. Therefore I can travel anywhere I like within the country.

Makes complete sense to me. I don't see the problem with this. If there is an issue, don't let people into the country in the first place.

And before I'm leapt upon, I get the "only NSW and NT" thing and the rules and reasons around that. However I can also see the other side. Realistically, no person is going to travel if they have Covid because they'll be ill for one thing and for the other, who wants to be the one that brought a disease into somewhere? Give people some credit. While what they did was probably wrong, it's also understandable to an extent.
I do enjoy a spot of flying, especially when it's not in economy!
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 7821
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:36 pm

ClassicLover wrote:
Chipmunk1973 wrote:
NZ801 wrote:
Seems like the Australia - NZ bubble has had a shaky start with 14 people detained in MEL today. Apparently they flew from SYD after landing from NZ - according to the ABC. Not much more than that at the moment.


Just WOW. How stupid do you have to be?


In reality, I can understand their thoughts. I am from NZ, I am free of Covid, I arrive in Australia and am let in. Therefore I can travel anywhere I like within the country.

Makes complete sense to me. I don't see the problem with this. If there is an issue, don't let people into the country in the first place.

And before I'm leapt upon, I get the "only NSW and NT" thing and the rules and reasons around that. However I can also see the other side. Realistically, no person is going to travel if they have Covid because they'll be ill for one thing and for the other, who wants to be the one that brought a disease into somewhere? Give people some credit. While what they did was probably wrong, it's also understandable to an extent.



I’m a bit of how we’re they able to book to MEL in the first place and then how were they able to board a SYD-MEL flight. Seems like the authority’s didn’t think that one through?
 
qf002
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:53 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
I’m a bit of how we’re they able to book to MEL in the first place and then how were they able to board a SYD-MEL flight. Seems like the authority’s didn’t think that one through?


It’s for Victorian authorities to police their own inbound border restrictions (just like every other State) so this lies squarely with them if they didn’t have resources/processes in place to deal with such a predictable scenario.
 
a320fan
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:32 am

qf002 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
I’m a bit of how we’re they able to book to MEL in the first place and then how were they able to board a SYD-MEL flight. Seems like the authority’s didn’t think that one through?


It’s for Victorian authorities to police their own inbound border restrictions (just like every other State) so this lies squarely with them if they didn’t have resources/processes in place to deal with such a predictable scenario.

Victoria has no inbound border restrictions with other states, it’s all the other way around. The restriction is on no international arrivals, and therefore no PAX international flights have arrived in the state since July, and with all other states until yesterday afternoon taking arrivals straight to hotel quarantine there’s been no need to screen domestic arrivals into MEL
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xiaotung
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:55 am

ClassicLover wrote:
Chipmunk1973 wrote:
NZ801 wrote:
Seems like the Australia - NZ bubble has had a shaky start with 14 people detained in MEL today. Apparently they flew from SYD after landing from NZ - according to the ABC. Not much more than that at the moment.


Just WOW. How stupid do you have to be?


In reality, I can understand their thoughts. I am from NZ, I am free of Covid, I arrive in Australia and am let in. Therefore I can travel anywhere I like within the country.

Makes complete sense to me. I don't see the problem with this. If there is an issue, don't let people into the country in the first place.

And before I'm leapt upon, I get the "only NSW and NT" thing and the rules and reasons around that. However I can also see the other side. Realistically, no person is going to travel if they have Covid because they'll be ill for one thing and for the other, who wants to be the one that brought a disease into somewhere? Give people some credit. While what they did was probably wrong, it's also understandable to an extent.


It's also difficult to police if you are coming from a COVID hotspot. At the moment, police on domestic arrivals solely rely on self-reporting and the address on your driver license. But you can simply change your address or have the address sticker replaced. NZ driver license often shows no address at all. What's stopping a Kiwi who arrives in SYD quarantine free and goes to NT and then travels to SA or QLD, not that it poses any risks in reality? I hope the travel bubble becomes nationwide soon. It just saves a lot of paperwork.
 
ABpositive
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:11 am

xiaotung wrote:
ClassicLover wrote:
Chipmunk1973 wrote:

Just WOW. How stupid do you have to be?


In reality, I can understand their thoughts. I am from NZ, I am free of Covid, I arrive in Australia and am let in. Therefore I can travel anywhere I like within the country.

Makes complete sense to me. I don't see the problem with this. If there is an issue, don't let people into the country in the first place.

And before I'm leapt upon, I get the "only NSW and NT" thing and the rules and reasons around that. However I can also see the other side. Realistically, no person is going to travel if they have Covid because they'll be ill for one thing and for the other, who wants to be the one that brought a disease into somewhere? Give people some credit. While what they did was probably wrong, it's also understandable to an extent.


It's also difficult to police if you are coming from a COVID hotspot. At the moment, police on domestic arrivals solely rely on self-reporting and the address on your driver license. But you can simply change your address or have the address sticker replaced. NZ driver license often shows no address at all. What's stopping a Kiwi who arrives in SYD quarantine free and goes to NT and then travels to SA or QLD, not that it poses any risks in reality? I hope the travel bubble becomes nationwide soon. It just saves a lot of paperwork.


I do think this is bureaucratic nit-picking and grandstanding. We wouldn't have heard about any of this if these same travelers from NZ drove to Vic from Sydney or booked a separate SYD-MEL leg instead of the connection. What's the responsibility with the airline if the sell "illegal" tickets - I though they also bear some of the costs?
 
xiaotung
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:18 am

ABpositive wrote:
xiaotung wrote:
ClassicLover wrote:

In reality, I can understand their thoughts. I am from NZ, I am free of Covid, I arrive in Australia and am let in. Therefore I can travel anywhere I like within the country.

Makes complete sense to me. I don't see the problem with this. If there is an issue, don't let people into the country in the first place.

And before I'm leapt upon, I get the "only NSW and NT" thing and the rules and reasons around that. However I can also see the other side. Realistically, no person is going to travel if they have Covid because they'll be ill for one thing and for the other, who wants to be the one that brought a disease into somewhere? Give people some credit. While what they did was probably wrong, it's also understandable to an extent.


It's also difficult to police if you are coming from a COVID hotspot. At the moment, police on domestic arrivals solely rely on self-reporting and the address on your driver license. But you can simply change your address or have the address sticker replaced. NZ driver license often shows no address at all. What's stopping a Kiwi who arrives in SYD quarantine free and goes to NT and then travels to SA or QLD, not that it poses any risks in reality? I hope the travel bubble becomes nationwide soon. It just saves a lot of paperwork.


I do think this is bureaucratic nit-picking and grandstanding. We wouldn't have heard about any of this if these same travelers from NZ drove to Vic from Sydney or booked a separate SYD-MEL leg instead of the connection. What's the responsibility with the airline if the sell "illegal" tickets - I though they also bear some of the costs?


I am not sure about QF and JQ but NZ won't sell you a quarantine free flight with a connection. Of course, there is nothing stopping you buying a separate ticket. From below report, it seems that the initial report about these 17 pax being detained is false. They have been let go and there won't be any consequences. They may be asked to return to Sydney but what if they are Melbourne residents or decide to make Melbourne their home either temporarily or permanently, there is not much you can do about it.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/vict ... 56606.html
 
Toenga
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:40 am

Chipmunk1973 wrote:
NZ801 wrote:
Seems like the Australia - NZ bubble has had a shaky start with 14 people detained in MEL today. Apparently they flew from SYD after landing from NZ - according to the ABC. Not much more than that at the moment.


Just WOW. How stupid do you have to be?


It is now apparent that the New Zealanders were just unfortunate pawns in the ongoing, unedifying battle between the LNP Federal government, and the Labor governed States over border closures, and local covid lockdowns,
The acting Federal Immigration Minister has just stated that "There was an understanding that New Zealanders can sneak into Victoria"
That seems very far short of effective clear leadership to me.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/ ... e-recorded
 
anstar
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:55 am

ZK-NBT wrote:


I’m a bit of how we’re they able to book to MEL in the first place and then how were they able to board a SYD-MEL flight. Seems like the authority’s didn’t think that one through?


Neither NZ, JQ or QF will sell the connection. But anyone is free to buy a AKL-SYD ticket on one carrier and a stand alone SYD-MEL on the other.

I guess if VIc don't want to receive these pax they will need to set up a border or at least have the SYD flights arrive into the INT terminal in MEL for screening like what they do for flights MEL-SYD that arrive into T1 international in SYD. of course that doesn't stop anyone driving across.
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:28 am

anstar wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:


I’m a bit of how we’re they able to book to MEL in the first place and then how were they able to board a SYD-MEL flight. Seems like the authority’s didn’t think that one through?


Neither NZ, JQ or QF will sell the connection. But anyone is free to buy a AKL-SYD ticket on one carrier and a stand alone SYD-MEL on the other.

I guess if VIc don't want to receive these pax they will need to set up a border or at least have the SYD flights arrive into the INT terminal in MEL for screening like what they do for flights MEL-SYD that arrive into T1 international in SYD. of course that doesn't stop anyone driving across.

Given low Victorian numbers, it is likely NSW will reopen to Victoria before the middle of November. In fact, it is possible that Sydney will reopen to Melbournians before regional Victoria does....
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melpax
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:10 am

Another You Tube find.

This is a MEL based pilot heading to BNE to work a few flights, not sure which airline. If you overlook the 'Instagrammy' aspects of the video, it gives a good overview of what interstate travel is like here ATM, especially for those here in MEL who are lucky enough to escape, although it appears that the pilot is confined to his hotel room when not working, being a Victorian......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqWeeGGd9kc
 
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EK413
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:48 am

VHULD the 1st QF A321F will make an appearance in SYD on the 19/10 and return to MEL the following day 20/10.



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Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
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Chipmunk1973
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:11 am

ClassicLover wrote:
Chipmunk1973 wrote:
NZ801 wrote:
Seems like the Australia - NZ bubble has had a shaky start with 14 people detained in MEL today. Apparently they flew from SYD after landing from NZ - according to the ABC. Not much more than that at the moment.


Just WOW. How stupid do you have to be?


In reality, I can understand their thoughts. I am from NZ, I am free of Covid, I arrive in Australia and am let in. Therefore I can travel anywhere I like within the country.

Makes complete sense to me. I don't see the problem with this. If there is an issue, don't let people into the country in the first place.

And before I'm leapt upon, I get the "only NSW and NT" thing and the rules and reasons around that. However I can also see the other side. Realistically, no person is going to travel if they have Covid because they'll be ill for one thing and for the other, who wants to be the one that brought a disease into somewhere? Give people some credit. While what they did was probably wrong, it's also understandable to an extent.


Hi ClassicLover, my apologies if offence was taken, none was intended. It was the end of a long and annoying day and I uttered what was disbelief without qualifying my comment.

Given that the “Bubble” for Kiwis is limited to NSW and the NT, I hope and expect that message was clearly conveyed to people prior to travel to Australia, that Melbourne is off limits.

Considering the “drama” that has ensued about a second wave of CoVid in Victoria, I was and still am flabbergasted that they could so easily book a flight to enter. I realise that with a smart phone/tablet that’s not a difficult thing to do. But what airlines could have done was directed anyone travelling to MEL to physically collect a boarding pass and show appropriate ID including a passport, which may have prevented their travel for medical reasons.

So yes, I still say it was stupid for travellers to enter a hot spot, unless there was a compassionate reason, but it’s also VERY stupid of airlines and state and federal governments to not put in measures to manage this appropriately. I think there was more than enough time beforehand to have this sorted.

Regards,
A
Cheers,
C1973


B707, B717, B727, B734, B737, B738, B743, B762, B763, B77W, A300, A320, A332, A333, A339, A388, BAe146, Cessna 206.
AN, EK, MI, QF, SB.
 
redroo
Posts: 594
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:30 pm

Chipmunk1973 wrote:
ClassicLover wrote:
Chipmunk1973 wrote:

Just WOW. How stupid do you have to be?


In reality, I can understand their thoughts. I am from NZ, I am free of Covid, I arrive in Australia and am let in. Therefore I can travel anywhere I like within the country.

Makes complete sense to me. I don't see the problem with this. If there is an issue, don't let people into the country in the first place.

And before I'm leapt upon, I get the "only NSW and NT" thing and the rules and reasons around that. However I can also see the other side. Realistically, no person is going to travel if they have Covid because they'll be ill for one thing and for the other, who wants to be the one that brought a disease into somewhere? Give people some credit. While what they did was probably wrong, it's also understandable to an extent.


Hi ClassicLover, my apologies if offence was taken, none was intended. It was the end of a long and annoying day and I uttered what was disbelief without qualifying my comment.

Given that the “Bubble” for Kiwis is limited to NSW and the NT, I hope and expect that message was clearly conveyed to people prior to travel to Australia, that Melbourne is off limits.

Considering the “drama” that has ensued about a second wave of CoVid in Victoria, I was and still am flabbergasted that they could so easily book a flight to enter. I realise that with a smart phone/tablet that’s not a difficult thing to do. But what airlines could have done was directed anyone travelling to MEL to physically collect a boarding pass and show appropriate ID including a passport, which may have prevented their travel for medical reasons.

So yes, I still say it was stupid for travellers to enter a hot spot, unless there was a compassionate reason, but it’s also VERY stupid of airlines and state and federal governments to not put in measures to manage this appropriately. I think there was more than enough time beforehand to have this sorted.

Regards,
A



You can’t trust people to do the right thing.

We’ve seen it repeatedly over last 6 months with people either ignoring rules, thinking the rules don’t apply to them, or having a unique interpretation of the rules to suit themselves.

Sad. If you don’t want X to happen it needs to be enforced.
 
Toenga
Posts: 187
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:06 pm

Chipmunk1973 wrote:



Given that the “Bubble” for Kiwis is limited to NSW and the NT, I hope and expect that message was clearly conveyed to people prior to travel to Australia, that Melbourne is off limits.



Which message?
When the message from the Australian Minister of Immigration (acting) was "There was an understanding that New Zealanders could sneak into Victoria".
If the the Minister, who was intimately involved in establishing this cross border bubble did not the the actual situation, why should those travellers be expected to know better?
I am sorry I think the Federal Government cynically exploited the plight of these kiwis in it's ongoing undermining of the Labour State Premiers of Victoria, Western Australia and Queensland.
 
hk144
Posts: 5
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:57 pm

[/quote]

Which message?
When the message from the Australian Minister of Immigration (acting) was "There was an understanding that New Zealanders could sneak into Victoria".
If the the Minister, who was intimately involved in establishing this cross border bubble did not the the actual situation, why should those travellers be expected to know better?
I am sorry I think the Federal Government cynically exploited the plight of these kiwis in it's ongoing undermining of the Labour State Premiers of Victoria, Western Australia and Queensland.[/quote]


How so? Movement within Australia is not the responsibility of the Federal Government. How has WA and QLD entered this comment? I note that the Victorian State Health Officer did not raise any concerns when the travel bubble was discussed at the National Cabinet.
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2755
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:37 pm

hk144 wrote:

Which message?
When the message from the Australian Minister of Immigration (acting) was "There was an understanding that New Zealanders could sneak into Victoria".
If the the Minister, who was intimately involved in establishing this cross border bubble did not the the actual situation, why should those travellers be expected to know better?
I am sorry I think the Federal Government cynically exploited the plight of these kiwis in it's ongoing undermining of the Labour State Premiers of Victoria, Western Australia and Queensland.


How so? Movement within Australia is not the responsibility of the Federal Government. How has WA and QLD entered this comment? I note that the Victorian State Health Officer did not raise any concerns when the travel bubble was discussed at the National Cabinet.

I'm a bit puzzled why it is an issue for New Zealanders to enter Victoria. If it was the other way around, I'd understand some outrage but a New Zealander is extremely unlikely to be a health risk which seems to have been accepted by the Victorian CHO. I think some of the Vic premier's outrage is more an attempt to deflect from what is a fairly ugly situation largely of his own making.
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IndianicWorld
Posts: 3422
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 11:32 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:52 pm

tullamarine wrote:
hk144 wrote:

Which message?
When the message from the Australian Minister of Immigration (acting) was "There was an understanding that New Zealanders could sneak into Victoria".
If the the Minister, who was intimately involved in establishing this cross border bubble did not the the actual situation, why should those travellers be expected to know better?
I am sorry I think the Federal Government cynically exploited the plight of these kiwis in it's ongoing undermining of the Labour State Premiers of Victoria, Western Australia and Queensland.


How so? Movement within Australia is not the responsibility of the Federal Government. How has WA and QLD entered this comment? I note that the Victorian State Health Officer did not raise any concerns when the travel bubble was discussed at the National Cabinet.

I'm a bit puzzled why it is an issue for New Zealanders to enter Victoria. If it was the other way around, I'd understand some outrage but a New Zealander is extremely unlikely to be a health risk which seems to have been accepted by the Victorian CHO. I think some of the Vic premier's outrage is more an attempt to deflect from what is a fairly ugly situation largely of his own making.


I need some clarification on the current process.

With this situation, can travelers from other countries transfer via AKL at the moment onto these flights? If that was the case, they would still be mixing on the aircraft and around the airport.

There is no risk free way to go about this, but given that the Vic govt isn’t part of this semi-bubble situation (NSW and NT were the only 2 states listed), the rules should have been clearly stipulated in terms of the rules and allowances for movement by those pax.
 
zkncj
Posts: 4174
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:09 am

IndianicWorld wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
hk144 wrote:

Which message?
When the message from the Australian Minister of Immigration (acting) was "There was an understanding that New Zealanders could sneak into Victoria".
If the the Minister, who was intimately involved in establishing this cross border bubble did not the the actual situation, why should those travellers be expected to know better?
I am sorry I think the Federal Government cynically exploited the plight of these kiwis in it's ongoing undermining of the Labour State Premiers of Victoria, Western Australia and Queensland.


How so? Movement within Australia is not the responsibility of the Federal Government. How has WA and QLD entered this comment? I note that the Victorian State Health Officer did not raise any concerns when the travel bubble was discussed at the National Cabinet.

I'm a bit puzzled why it is an issue for New Zealanders to enter Victoria. If it was the other way around, I'd understand some outrage but a New Zealander is extremely unlikely to be a health risk which seems to have been accepted by the Victorian CHO. I think some of the Vic premier's outrage is more an attempt to deflect from what is a fairly ugly situation largely of his own making.


I need some clarification on the current process.

With this situation, can travelers from other countries transfer via AKL at the moment onto these flights? If that was the case, they would still be mixing on the aircraft and around the airport.

There is no risk free way to go about this, but given that the Vic govt isn’t part of this semi-bubble situation (NSW and NT were the only 2 states listed), the rules should have been clearly stipulated in terms of the rules and allowances for movement by those pax.


NZ/QF/JQ are all operating clean flights between AKL/SYD. Also the terminal in AKL has been split into two, with gate 16-19 being used for at risk flights.

NZ is operating seperate flights been AKL/SYD which are only for transit passengers. All passengers on these flights are then put into managed isolation on arrival in SYD.

The VIC one is an hard issue, there boarder isn’t closed. How it’s is any different to an New Zealander living in Sydney that goes to Melbourne?
 
IndianicWorld
Posts: 3422
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 11:32 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:00 am

zkncj wrote:
IndianicWorld wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
I'm a bit puzzled why it is an issue for New Zealanders to enter Victoria. If it was the other way around, I'd understand some outrage but a New Zealander is extremely unlikely to be a health risk which seems to have been accepted by the Victorian CHO. I think some of the Vic premier's outrage is more an attempt to deflect from what is a fairly ugly situation largely of his own making.


I need some clarification on the current process.

With this situation, can travelers from other countries transfer via AKL at the moment onto these flights? If that was the case, they would still be mixing on the aircraft and around the airport.

There is no risk free way to go about this, but given that the Vic govt isn’t part of this semi-bubble situation (NSW and NT were the only 2 states listed), the rules should have been clearly stipulated in terms of the rules and allowances for movement by those pax.


NZ/QF/JQ are all operating clean flights between AKL/SYD. Also the terminal in AKL has been split into two, with gate 16-19 being used for at risk flights.

NZ is operating seperate flights been AKL/SYD which are only for transit passengers. All passengers on these flights are then put into managed isolation on arrival in SYD.

The VIC one is an hard issue, there boarder isn’t closed. How it’s is any different to an New Zealander living in Sydney that goes to Melbourne?


Thanks for that information.

I tend to think that the whole purpose was supposed to be for travel to NSW and NT at this stage only. The fact other states had not signed up means that technically the federal govt and those states that did sign up should be responsible for managing it.

At first glance it does seem trivial, but at the end of the day, given the numerous other pressure politics agendas at play currently, the whole process has the potential to be messy if not completely implemented as planned.
 
eamondzhang
Posts: 1923
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:11 am

IndianicWorld wrote:
I need some clarification on the current process.

With this situation, can travelers from other countries transfer via AKL at the moment onto these flights? If that was the case, they would still be mixing on the aircraft and around the airport.

There is no risk free way to go about this, but given that the Vic govt isn’t part of this semi-bubble situation (NSW and NT were the only 2 states listed), the rules should have been clearly stipulated in terms of the rules and allowances for movement by those pax.

They can transit in AKL, but not to mix on the same flight as those quarantine-free flights.

I had a friend who was booked on PVG-AKL-SYD with AKL-SYD being NZ103 (the designated green flight that pax do not need quarantine). The booking was cancelled as they can't arrange a flight designated for those pax needing quarantine.

Apparently what they're doing now is the daily 787 flight being the quarantine-free flight and the twice-weekly A320neo flight being able to carry transit pax.

IMO once a bigger bubble is formed (eg once VIC/QLD/SA is joined) we should take it as a "quarantine at the first point of entry" approach and once quarantine is done they can freely move within the zone; and all flights within the zone shuold practically be green flights.

Michael
 
zkncj
Posts: 4174
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:34 am

eamondzhang wrote:
IMO once a bigger bubble is formed (eg once VIC/QLD/SA is joined) we should take it as a "quarantine at the first point of entry" approach and once quarantine is done they can freely move within the zone; and all flights within the zone shuold practically be green flights.


Now that the New Zealand election is over, hopefully the New Zealand and Australian Governments can sit down together, forget the political side of the Tasman Bubble and get something into motion.

It would see it would have major benefits to most countries to have free movement between non-hotspots by the summer hoilday period.
 
eamondzhang
Posts: 1923
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:43 am

zkncj wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
IMO once a bigger bubble is formed (eg once VIC/QLD/SA is joined) we should take it as a "quarantine at the first point of entry" approach and once quarantine is done they can freely move within the zone; and all flights within the zone shuold practically be green flights.


Now that the New Zealand election is over, hopefully the New Zealand and Australian Governments can sit down together, forget the political side of the Tasman Bubble and get something into motion.

It would see it would have major benefits to most countries to have free movement between non-hotspots by the summer hoilday period.

I really wish that's the case - but this also needs corporation from State overnments which unfortunately are mostly in a fist-fight currently with the Federal government.

Just see what happened with VIC two days ago regarding those 17 pax - I mean - seriously?? You didn't shut border in the first place and they're in essence legally domestic passengers!

I would be very happy if I am proved wrong though!

Michael
 
IndianicWorld
Posts: 3422
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 11:32 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:31 am

eamondzhang wrote:
zkncj wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
IMO once a bigger bubble is formed (eg once VIC/QLD/SA is joined) we should take it as a "quarantine at the first point of entry" approach and once quarantine is done they can freely move within the zone; and all flights within the zone shuold practically be green flights.


Now that the New Zealand election is over, hopefully the New Zealand and Australian Governments can sit down together, forget the political side of the Tasman Bubble and get something into motion.

It would see it would have major benefits to most countries to have free movement between non-hotspots by the summer hoilday period.

I really wish that's the case - but this also needs corporation from State overnments which unfortunately are mostly in a fist-fight currently with the Federal government.

Just see what happened with VIC two days ago regarding those 17 pax - I mean - seriously?? You didn't shut border in the first place and they're in essence legally domestic passengers!

I would be very happy if I am proved wrong though!

Michael


Agree that some kind of solution is a must very soon.

Given the challenges that having to fly separate flights brings for NZ, the only way I see a fully reciprocal bubble working between the nations is for pax coming in from other countries to quarantine at the first destination they arrive in.

This would mean a user pays system to stay in place for some time and the possibility for Australians coming in from the US for instance to quarantine in NZ before flying home on what would all them be standard flights. Would save a lot of headaches in terms of transfer operational considerations.

I do wonder though if this whole situations helps or hinders a future Australia-NZ Domestic style travel plan, with no or limited customs or immigration steps required. Using lessons learnt in this process could be helpful, but the levels of awareness now for events like COVID and differing restrictions/strategies in each country may bring some unease.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:27 pm

I initially couldn’t believe the stupidity of these 17 people (possibly 55 per Andrews today?) but the more I read into it, the more I think no one has done anything wrong. The purpose of this so-called bubble is that people who arrive in NSW who have spent at least 14 days in New Zealand are taken to have the same rights as anyone else in NSW. Vic doesn’t have a closed borders with NSW. This means that there is nothing stopping an arriving passenger from travelling to Vic, but not WA. It appears that this hypothetical scenario was discussed at 2 meetings between the Commonwealth and states, so Vic was on notice. If Vic has an issue with this then they need to close their border to NSW, as nobody in NSW or Border Force appears to have actually done anything wrong.
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eamondzhang
Posts: 1923
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:35 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
I initially couldn’t believe the stupidity of these 17 people (possibly 55 per Andrews today?) but the more I read into it, the more I think no one has done anything wrong. The purpose of this so-called bubble is that people who arrive in NSW who have spent at least 14 days in New Zealand are taken to have the same rights as anyone else in NSW. Vic doesn’t have a closed borders with NSW. This means that there is nothing stopping an arriving passenger from travelling to Vic, but not WA. It appears that this hypothetical scenario was discussed at 2 meetings between the Commonwealth and states, so Vic was on notice. If Vic has an issue with this then they need to close their border to NSW, as nobody in NSW or Border Force appears to have actually done anything wrong.

Spot on

That's why I really hate this whole debacle of "some people moved from NZ to VIC as international traveller" BS - not trying t oget political but this is exactly Daniel Andrews' fail.

Michael
 
moa999
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:44 pm

An even higher number (23 or 25) flew into WA as well.

Personally don't see the issue.
The Fed Govt is essentially declaring NZ as Covid Free.
And lower risk than say an essential workers flying NSW to WA.

Its more problematic for 2nd stage which is seemingly allowing home quarantine for low-risk Covid countries (probably only Japan and Taiwan at this point)
 
xiaotung
Posts: 1099
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:31 am

moa999 wrote:
An even higher number (23 or 25) flew into WA as well.

Personally don't see the issue.
The Fed Govt is essentially declaring NZ as Covid Free.
And lower risk than say an essential workers flying NSW to WA.

Its more problematic for 2nd stage which is seemingly allowing home quarantine for low-risk Covid countries (probably only Japan and Taiwan at this point)


I don't see any problem with home quarantine. You would have to declare the home address you would be staying at and there would be no grey area.

The problem is how to police these people. Even if you give them tracking devices, there is nothing stopping people visiting them and potentially getting infected.
 
moa999
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:33 am

xiaotung wrote:
moa999 wrote:
An even higher number (23 or 25) flew into WA as well.

Personally don't see the issue.
The Fed Govt is essentially declaring NZ as Covid Free.
And lower risk than say an essential workers flying NSW to WA.

Its more problematic for 2nd stage which is seemingly allowing home quarantine for low-risk Covid countries (probably only Japan and Taiwan at this point)


I don't see any problem with home quarantine. You would have to declare the home address you would be staying at and there would be no grey area.
The problem is with them taking a domestic flight.
Home quarantine arrangements only work when you are flying direct to your home.

Otherwise putting everyone on those flights at risk.
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:41 am

moa999 wrote:
xiaotung wrote:
moa999 wrote:
An even higher number (23 or 25) flew into WA as well.

Personally don't see the issue.
The Fed Govt is essentially declaring NZ as Covid Free.
And lower risk than say an essential workers flying NSW to WA.

Its more problematic for 2nd stage which is seemingly allowing home quarantine for low-risk Covid countries (probably only Japan and Taiwan at this point)


I don't see any problem with home quarantine. You would have to declare the home address you would be staying at and there would be no grey area.
The problem is with them taking a domestic flight.
Home quarantine arrangements only work when you are flying direct to your home.

Otherwise putting everyone on those flights at risk.

What is the problem with them taking a domestic flight? They are allowed to enter NSW without quarantine; the border from NSW to Victoria is open (not the other way however) so I don't understand why it is a problem Even the Vic DHHS website says New Zealanders are allowed to visit Victoria. This seems like a diversionary exercise by the Vic premier who has been trying these type of tactics a bit lately to distract from the mess that appears to be largely of his making.
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zkncj
Posts: 4174
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:31 am

tullamarine wrote:
What is the problem with them taking a domestic flight? They are allowed to enter NSW without quarantine; the border from NSW to Victoria is open (not the other way however) so I don't understand why it is a problem Even the Vic DHHS website says New Zealanders are allowed to visit Victoria. This seems like a diversionary exercise by the Vic premier who has been trying these type of tactics a bit lately to distract from the mess that appears to be largely of his making.


Agreed - it really is no different than an New Zealander living in Sydney, that decides to travel to Melbourne for whatever reason.

The is more risk of the fresh arrival from New Zealand, catching COVID on the domestic flight (than giving it to someone else on the domestic flight)
 
jrfspa320
Posts: 684
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:40 am

zkncj wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
What is the problem with them taking a domestic flight? They are allowed to enter NSW without quarantine; the border from NSW to Victoria is open (not the other way however) so I don't understand why it is a problem Even the Vic DHHS website says New Zealanders are allowed to visit Victoria. This seems like a diversionary exercise by the Vic premier who has been trying these type of tactics a bit lately to distract from the mess that appears to be largely of his making.


Agreed - it really is no different than an New Zealander living in Sydney, that decides to travel to Melbourne for whatever reason.

The is more risk of the fresh arrival from New Zealand, catching COVID on the domestic flight (than giving it to someone else on the domestic flight)


Agreed, The issue remains that international bubbles cant work properly until the domestic borders come down
 
xiaotung
Posts: 1099
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:07 am

jrfspa320 wrote:
zkncj wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
What is the problem with them taking a domestic flight? They are allowed to enter NSW without quarantine; the border from NSW to Victoria is open (not the other way however) so I don't understand why it is a problem Even the Vic DHHS website says New Zealanders are allowed to visit Victoria. This seems like a diversionary exercise by the Vic premier who has been trying these type of tactics a bit lately to distract from the mess that appears to be largely of his making.


Agreed - it really is no different than an New Zealander living in Sydney, that decides to travel to Melbourne for whatever reason.

The is more risk of the fresh arrival from New Zealand, catching COVID on the domestic flight (than giving it to someone else on the domestic flight)


Agreed, The issue remains that international bubbles cant work properly until the domestic borders come down


When will that be though? QLD keeps asking for 28 days without a single community transmission and WA by the looks of it is going the way of WEXIT (a term I recently heard and I thought it was hilarious).

We just can't have these 2 states getting in the way of others who have better common sense.
 
jrfspa320
Posts: 684
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:18 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:17 am

xiaotung wrote:
jrfspa320 wrote:
zkncj wrote:

Agreed - it really is no different than an New Zealander living in Sydney, that decides to travel to Melbourne for whatever reason.

The is more risk of the fresh arrival from New Zealand, catching COVID on the domestic flight (than giving it to someone else on the domestic flight)


Agreed, The issue remains that international bubbles cant work properly until the domestic borders come down


When will that be though? QLD keeps asking for 28 days without a single community transmission and WA by the looks of it is going the way of WEXIT (a term I recently heard and I thought it was hilarious).

We just can't have these 2 states getting in the way of others who have better common sense.


NZ arrivals into SA and TAS have also been ushered into hotel quarantine, so its not just these two states, the main issue is these arrivals are now taking up space in the hotel arrival caps.....

Ironically i dont think any have travelled to the NT, (at least didnt made the news) which was part of the "bubble".
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2755
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:23 am

zkncj wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
What is the problem with them taking a domestic flight? They are allowed to enter NSW without quarantine; the border from NSW to Victoria is open (not the other way however) so I don't understand why it is a problem Even the Vic DHHS website says New Zealanders are allowed to visit Victoria. This seems like a diversionary exercise by the Vic premier who has been trying these type of tactics a bit lately to distract from the mess that appears to be largely of his making.


Agreed - it really is no different than an New Zealander living in Sydney, that decides to travel to Melbourne for whatever reason.

The is more risk of the fresh arrival from New Zealand, catching COVID on the domestic flight (than giving it to someone else on the domestic flight)

Just to prove the Vic Government are trying to distract from their own problems, here is the current wording from their own website which shows they don't know what they are talking about.

Currently the Victorian borders are open. If you are travelling from NZ and have passed all relevant immigration and biosecurity requirements as established by the Federal Government, NSW Government and NT Government, then you are able to travel to Victoria. You do not need to quarantine for 14 days on arrival in Victoria
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anstar
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Mon Oct 19, 2020 4:23 am

tullamarine wrote:
Given low Victorian numbers, it is likely NSW will reopen to Victoria before the middle of November. In fact, it is possible that Sydney will reopen to Melbournians before regional Victoria does....


Given the relatively low numbers in Vic, I can't see what justification NSW will have to keep the borders closed after the next round of restrictions easing on 1 November. Vic will hopefully be having single digit numbers or better zero... which is what NSW had when they were wanting SA/QLD borders to open.
 
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EK413
Posts: 5652
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:52 am

The 1st QF repat flight is well on its way QF9 SYD-PER-LHR VHZND.

Flight QF9 from Sydney to Perth
https://fr24.com/QFA9/25cff29d


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Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
A350OZ
Posts: 200
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:53 am

tullamarine wrote:
Just to prove the Vic Government are trying to distract from their own problems, here is the current wording from their own website which shows they don't know what they are talking about.

Currently the Victorian borders are open. If you are travelling from NZ and have passed all relevant immigration and biosecurity requirements as established by the Federal Government, NSW Government and NT Government, then you are able to travel to Victoria. You do not need to quarantine for 14 days on arrival in Victoria


On that particular quote, Dan Andrews confirmed today this particular section was added on Sunday night after the fallout happened and the Vic Government realised it can't do anything about it without closing the border for all incoming interstate travellers. So they decided to clarify it as they're not going to do anything about it.

I agree it is a non-issue from a virus/health perspective, but it seems this entirely foreseeable scenario (Kiwis entering NSW and then travelling on as domestic pax to VIC) was simply not properly considered on the Vic Government end.
 
jrfspa320
Posts: 684
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:18 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:00 am

EK413 wrote:
The 1st QF repat flight is well on its way QF9 SYD-PER-LHR VHZND.

Flight QF9 from Sydney to Perth
https://fr24.com/QFA9/25cff29d


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Is it carrying passengers on the outbound? on either leg?
 
User avatar
EK413
Posts: 5652
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:14 am

jrfspa320 wrote:
EK413 wrote:
The 1st QF repat flight is well on its way QF9 SYD-PER-LHR VHZND.

Flight QF9 from Sydney to Perth
https://fr24.com/QFA9/25cff29d


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Is it carrying passengers on the outbound? on either leg?

The flight was open for sale so I’d say it’s carrying passengers on both outbound and inbound flights.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
SYDSpotter
Posts: 919
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:10 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:25 am

jrfspa320 wrote:

Ironically i dont think any have travelled to the NT, (at least didnt made the news) which was part of the "bubble".


Well it wouldn't have made any news because as you mention NT is part of the bubble, there are also no direct flights between NZ and DRW, so the only way they can get to get into NT is through SYD. As people in NSW are now also allowed to travel freely into the NT, it is a non-issue.

Like everything COVID related, its all about politics. The NT Chief Minister claimed in early August that the NT borders could be closed to NSW/VIC for another 18 months, this was a few weeks before the NT elections. Now that the election is over, NSW residents are allowed in. I expect a similar move from QLD once that state election concludes at the end of this month.
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An767
Posts: 293
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:48 am

I got an email from Australian Frequent Flyer Gazette today. One of the articles is "Suggest a new name for Virgin Australia" i did not read the link as my ad blocker will not let me access the story. So is this a real thing ? I have not seen it mentioned on here.

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Toenga
Posts: 187
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:57 am

SYDSpotter wrote:

Like everything COVID related, its all about politics.


No.
There are some very significant covid health related issues as well that the Federal Government has failed to address.
An effective covid track and tracing system relies on rapid tracing of peoples movements.
These tracking and tracing systems are a state, and even district, responsibility that cannot function in relation to international arrivals unless the data collected on international arrival cards, paper, or electronic, gets to the appropriate health tracking organisation at least as fast as the arriving passenger.
Totally useless to have the passenger covid symptomatic in Outer Whoop, and the arrival card information buried in Sydney immigration.
This basic requirement clearly was not implemented with clear protocols before the first kiwis arrived in Sydney and began an onward journey into other states.
Before a two way quarantine free travel bubble can be implemented NZ will need to be satisfied that that passenger details must end up with the contact tracking and tracing organisation at their destination.
 
anstar
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:11 am

It's also not just about VIC. Kiwis have been able to travel to WA and then go into hotel quarantine... bypassing the exemption system. So if you were wanting to go for a family death etc you have to apply for an exemption to be allowed in. The Kiwi's just turned up and straight into hotel quarantine.
 
Toenga
Posts: 187
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:55 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:05 am

anstar wrote:
It's also not just about VIC. Kiwis have been able to travel to WA and then go into hotel quarantine... bypassing the exemption system. So if you were wanting to go for a family death etc you have to apply for an exemption to be allowed in. The Kiwi's just turned up and straight into hotel quarantine.

And now Tasmania also.
If the Australian Minister of Immigration (acting) did not know how it was to work with the States, it is a bit much to ask that people travelling from New Zealand should know.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:21 am

anstar wrote:
It's also not just about VIC. Kiwis have been able to travel to WA and then go into hotel quarantine... bypassing the exemption system. So if you were wanting to go for a family death etc you have to apply for an exemption to be allowed in. The Kiwi's just turned up and straight into hotel quarantine.


Happy to be corrected, but my understanding was that they had valid G2G passes - i.e. had a travel exemption.

Otherwise WA would have presumably turned them around on the first flight out of the state, same as they do with domestic passengers who arrive without an exemption. While not thrilled, McGowan’s reaction was unusually subdued, which would suggest they did have the right paper to enter the state.
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