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xiaotung
Posts: 1087
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 7:58 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:37 am

anstar wrote:
It's also not just about VIC. Kiwis have been able to travel to WA and then go into hotel quarantine... bypassing the exemption system. So if you were wanting to go for a family death etc you have to apply for an exemption to be allowed in. The Kiwi's just turned up and straight into hotel quarantine.


I don't know why WA is doing this. How is it different from NSW residents going to WA? Do they also take WA international arrival quota away? The WA hard border is crazy and completely politically motivated.
 
myki
Posts: 245
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:43 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:20 pm

xiaotung wrote:
moa999 wrote:
An even higher number (23 or 25) flew into WA as well.

Personally don't see the issue.
The Fed Govt is essentially declaring NZ as Covid Free.
And lower risk than say an essential workers flying NSW to WA.

Its more problematic for 2nd stage which is seemingly allowing home quarantine for low-risk Covid countries (probably only Japan and Taiwan at this point)


I don't see any problem with home quarantine.

Those that were supposed to quarantine did. "Sure I will stay home" and then the police turn up to check, and nobody is home. Hence the mandatory hotel quarantine was introduced. There's always a small few that ruin it for everyone. Hopefully something else is sorted soon, and will allow flights to kick back in. That's what us avgeeks want right?
 
anstar
Posts: 3299
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:48 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
anstar wrote:
It's also not just about VIC. Kiwis have been able to travel to WA and then go into hotel quarantine... bypassing the exemption system. So if you were wanting to go for a family death etc you have to apply for an exemption to be allowed in. The Kiwi's just turned up and straight into hotel quarantine.


Happy to be corrected, but my understanding was that they had valid G2G passes - i.e. had a travel exemption.

Otherwise WA would have presumably turned them around on the first flight out of the state, same as they do with domestic passengers who arrive without an exemption. While not thrilled, McGowan’s reaction was unusually subdued, which would suggest they did have the right paper to enter the state.


Most had passes (17 or 23) however they turned up unannounced and took hotel places that other travellers would of had.

https://www.watoday.com.au/national/wes ... 566kk.html

xiaotung wrote:
anstar wrote:
It's also not just about VIC. Kiwis have been able to travel to WA and then go into hotel quarantine... bypassing the exemption system. So if you were wanting to go for a family death etc you have to apply for an exemption to be allowed in. The Kiwi's just turned up and straight into hotel quarantine.


I don't know why WA is doing this. How is it different from NSW residents going to WA? Do they also take WA international arrival quota away? The WA hard border is crazy and completely politically motivated.


NSW residents cant just go to WA and hotel quaratine.. they need a G2G pass which will only be issued if they have an approved exemotion.
 
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RyanairGuru
Posts: 8468
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:11 pm

anstar wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
anstar wrote:
It's also not just about VIC. Kiwis have been able to travel to WA and then go into hotel quarantine... bypassing the exemption system. So if you were wanting to go for a family death etc you have to apply for an exemption to be allowed in. The Kiwi's just turned up and straight into hotel quarantine.


Happy to be corrected, but my understanding was that they had valid G2G passes - i.e. had a travel exemption.

Otherwise WA would have presumably turned them around on the first flight out of the state, same as they do with domestic passengers who arrive without an exemption. While not thrilled, McGowan’s reaction was unusually subdued, which would suggest they did have the right paper to enter the state.


Most had passes (17 or 23) however they turned up unannounced and took hotel places that other travellers would of had.

https://www.watoday.com.au/national/wes ... 566kk.html

xiaotung wrote:
anstar wrote:
It's also not just about VIC. Kiwis have been able to travel to WA and then go into hotel quarantine... bypassing the exemption system. So if you were wanting to go for a family death etc you have to apply for an exemption to be allowed in. The Kiwi's just turned up and straight into hotel quarantine.


I don't know why WA is doing this. How is it different from NSW residents going to WA? Do they also take WA international arrival quota away? The WA hard border is crazy and completely politically motivated.


NSW residents cant just go to WA and hotel quaratine.. they need a G2G pass which will only be issued if they have an approved exemotion.


I can understand why those without a G2G pass count towards the international arrivals cap, but those who do have one should not. They are domestic passengers, and WA does not cap domestic arrivals.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
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SCFlyer
Posts: 631
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:59 pm

Bain announces upgraded "Snack Boxes" for VA's Domestic J passengers.

Drinks have been "restocked" and Instant Noodles have been chopped.

IMO, this is probably closer to WestJet or non-Mint JetBlue Premium.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... ill-snacks
 
anstar
Posts: 3299
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:37 am

RyanairGuru wrote:

I can understand why those without a G2G pass count towards the international arrivals cap, but those who do have one should not. They are domestic passengers, and WA does not cap domestic arrivals.

Well they do caop arrivals in such that they only issue a certain amount of exemptions. If thousands turned up every day without and exemption and were put into quarantine you would certainly have some issues with accommodating them all.
 
qf2048
Posts: 116
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2016 3:16 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:23 am

Link Airways have announced NTL - CBR from 20th Nov.
ZL,QF,KE,BA,AS,CX,FR,U2,W6,EI,IB,JL,AY,LH,AA,AC,FQ,DJ,JQ,LA,FJ,QS,NZ,NF,SB,PG,EK,AB,VA,MH,KA,VN
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2590
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:32 am

The Australian (paywall) has an article regarding CBA transferring the ex-VA A332 it owns (XFJ I think) to KUL (ultimate destination unknown) following claiming it back as part of the administration. Article also has photo of the plane as it left hangar at MEL. Plane is now a white-tail; the only tell-tale of its prior life are the red rings on the engine nacelles and the red winglets.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/commonwealth-bank-takes-back-virgin-plane/news-story/f4642a787a0fba71f4b642b601f0ba3a
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
aircountry
Posts: 118
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2005 1:43 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:15 am

tullamarine wrote:
The Australian (paywall) has an article regarding CBA transferring the ex-VA A332 it owns (XFJ I think) to KUL (ultimate destination unknown) following claiming it back as part of the administration. Article also has photo of the plane as it left hangar at MEL. Plane is now a white-tail; the only tell-tale of its prior life are the red rings on the engine nacelles and the red winglets.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/commonwealth-bank-takes-back-virgin-plane/news-story/f4642a787a0fba71f4b642b601f0ba3a


I cant get access they want me to pay it first then read it.

Melbourne spotters group at facebook said Virgin Australia going to get rid all widebodies include A330 and 777 plus A320, ATR-72 and Fokker 100. They are keeping only 737-700 and 800 for domestic flight. I dont know about international.
 
aschachter
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:37 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:27 am

anstar wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
anstar wrote:
It's also not just about VIC. Kiwis have been able to travel to WA and then go into hotel quarantine... bypassing the exemption system. So if you were wanting to go for a family death etc you have to apply for an exemption to be allowed in. The Kiwi's just turned up and straight into hotel quarantine.


Happy to be corrected, but my understanding was that they had valid G2G passes - i.e. had a travel exemption.

Otherwise WA would have presumably turned them around on the first flight out of the state, same as they do with domestic passengers who arrive without an exemption. While not thrilled, McGowan’s reaction was unusually subdued, which would suggest they did have the right paper to enter the state.


Most had passes (17 or 23) however they turned up unannounced and took hotel places that other travellers would of had.

https://www.watoday.com.au/national/wes ... 566kk.html

xiaotung wrote:
anstar wrote:
It's also not just about VIC. Kiwis have been able to travel to WA and then go into hotel quarantine... bypassing the exemption system. So if you were wanting to go for a family death etc you have to apply for an exemption to be allowed in. The Kiwi's just turned up and straight into hotel quarantine.


I don't know why WA is doing this. How is it different from NSW residents going to WA? Do they also take WA international arrival quota away? The WA hard border is crazy and completely politically motivated.


NSW residents cant just go to WA and hotel quaratine.. they need a G2G pass which will only be issued if they have an approved exemotion.


I know WA have announced that these NZ arrivals are part of their international arrivals cap, it would be interesting to know if these were also included in the NSW cap or the NZ arrivals are excluded from that cap...
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2590
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:21 am

aircountry wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
The Australian (paywall) has an article regarding CBA transferring the ex-VA A332 it owns (XFJ I think) to KUL (ultimate destination unknown) following claiming it back as part of the administration. Article also has photo of the plane as it left hangar at MEL. Plane is now a white-tail; the only tell-tale of its prior life are the red rings on the engine nacelles and the red winglets.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/commonwealth-bank-takes-back-virgin-plane/news-story/f4642a787a0fba71f4b642b601f0ba3a


I cant get access they want me to pay it first then read it.

Melbourne spotters group at facebook said Virgin Australia going to get rid all widebodies include A330 and 777 plus A320, ATR-72 and Fokker 100. They are keeping only 737-700 and 800 for domestic flight. I dont know about international.

Yes, that is why I put (paywall) after the paper's name. The Australian doesn't permit free access to its news stories.

It may have changed now that Scurrah is leaving but the original plan was that the F100s and A320s used by VARA for FIFO flights in WA will remain. Nothing has been stated by Hrdlicka on the plans for VARA.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
DeltaB717
Posts: 1722
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:49 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:00 pm

I've been told (and I'm not sure how accurate this is) there were 3 pax and 11 tonnes of cargo on QF9 inbound to LHR, and as of some time overnight (our time) there were 6 pax booked on the LHR-DRW flight (unsure cargo volume). Take it with a grain of salt but the info came from Heathrow.
 
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EK413
Posts: 5574
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:25 pm

DeltaB717 wrote:
I've been told (and I'm not sure how accurate this is) there were 3 pax and 11 tonnes of cargo on QF9 inbound to LHR, and as of some time overnight (our time) there were 6 pax booked on the LHR-DRW flight (unsure cargo volume). Take it with a grain of salt but the info came from Heathrow.

I’d say those figures sound about right. I know the government pulled the pin on subsidising the international flights but I’m curious if these 3 repat flights have been funded by the government.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2590
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:55 pm

EK413 wrote:
DeltaB717 wrote:
I've been told (and I'm not sure how accurate this is) there were 3 pax and 11 tonnes of cargo on QF9 inbound to LHR, and as of some time overnight (our time) there were 6 pax booked on the LHR-DRW flight (unsure cargo volume). Take it with a grain of salt but the info came from Heathrow.

I’d say those figures sound about right. I know the government pulled the pin on subsidising the international flights but I’m curious if these 3 repat flights have been funded by the government.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The numbers seems very low particularly as we were told that there were a large number of people desperate to return but couldn't due to extortionate airfares. I would've thought the $2500 fare would have attracted a decent number but this is obviously not the case.

When announced, this was stated
A government subsidy will cover the essential operating costs of fuel on these charter flights, while Qantas says that "all pilots and cabin crew working on these flights have volunteered for them." I think the term volunteer may be a bit confusing. I assume crew volunteered to be rostered but were paid for the hours they worked. On that basis, I assume the Federal Government would've received the fare revenue (such as it is) and QF received a direct charter fee. Freight carried was probably a bonus that QF banked themselves.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
DeltaB717
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:23 am

tullamarine wrote:
EK413 wrote:
DeltaB717 wrote:
I've been told (and I'm not sure how accurate this is) there were 3 pax and 11 tonnes of cargo on QF9 inbound to LHR, and as of some time overnight (our time) there were 6 pax booked on the LHR-DRW flight (unsure cargo volume). Take it with a grain of salt but the info came from Heathrow.

I’d say those figures sound about right. I know the government pulled the pin on subsidising the international flights but I’m curious if these 3 repat flights have been funded by the government.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The numbers seems very low particularly as we were told that there were a large number of people desperate to return but couldn't due to extortionate airfares. I would've thought the $2500 fare would have attracted a decent number but this is obviously not the case.

When announced, this was stated
A government subsidy will cover the essential operating costs of fuel on these charter flights, while Qantas says that "all pilots and cabin crew working on these flights have volunteered for them." I think the term volunteer may be a bit confusing. I assume crew volunteered to be rostered but were paid for the hours they worked. On that basis, I assume the Federal Government would've received the fare revenue (such as it is) and QF received a direct charter fee. Freight carried was probably a bonus that QF banked themselves.


Yes these flights are subsidised by the government. I agree these numbers don't compute with the claims about large numbers of people desperate to return to Australia. Like I said, grain of salt.
 
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EK413
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:11 am

DeltaB717 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
EK413 wrote:
I’d say those figures sound about right. I know the government pulled the pin on subsidising the international flights but I’m curious if these 3 repat flights have been funded by the government.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The numbers seems very low particularly as we were told that there were a large number of people desperate to return but couldn't due to extortionate airfares. I would've thought the $2500 fare would have attracted a decent number but this is obviously not the case.

When announced, this was stated
A government subsidy will cover the essential operating costs of fuel on these charter flights, while Qantas says that "all pilots and cabin crew working on these flights have volunteered for them." I think the term volunteer may be a bit confusing. I assume crew volunteered to be rostered but were paid for the hours they worked. On that basis, I assume the Federal Government would've received the fare revenue (such as it is) and QF received a direct charter fee. Freight carried was probably a bonus that QF banked themselves.


Yes these flights are subsidised by the government. I agree these numbers don't compute with the claims about large numbers of people desperate to return to Australia. Like I said, grain of salt.

The outbound PER-LHR figures sound about right. I certainly can’t speak about the inbound LHR-DRW figures though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
BNEFlyer
Posts: 265
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:41 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:28 am

melpax wrote:
Another You Tube find.

This is a MEL based pilot heading to BNE to work a few flights, not sure which airline. If you overlook the 'Instagrammy' aspects of the video, it gives a good overview of what interstate travel is like here ATM, especially for those here in MEL who are lucky enough to escape, although it appears that the pilot is confined to his hotel room when not working, being a Victorian......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqWeeGGd9kc

He's a JQ pilot (FO). Crew are confined to rooms when they're not in their home base. BNE based crew with PER layovers have to stay in their room until departure too.
 
NTLDaz
Posts: 475
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:56 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:29 am

aschachter wrote:
anstar wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:

Happy to be corrected, but my understanding was that they had valid G2G passes - i.e. had a travel exemption.

Otherwise WA would have presumably turned them around on the first flight out of the state, same as they do with domestic passengers who arrive without an exemption. While not thrilled, McGowan’s reaction was unusually subdued, which would suggest they did have the right paper to enter the state.


Most had passes (17 or 23) however they turned up unannounced and took hotel places that other travellers would of had.

https://www.watoday.com.au/national/wes ... 566kk.html

xiaotung wrote:

I don't know why WA is doing this. How is it different from NSW residents going to WA? Do they also take WA international arrival quota away? The WA hard border is crazy and completely politically motivated.


NSW residents cant just go to WA and hotel quaratine.. they need a G2G pass which will only be issued if they have an approved exemotion.


I know WA have announced that these NZ arrivals are part of their international arrivals cap, it would be interesting to know if these were also included in the NSW cap or the NZ arrivals are excluded from that cap...


There's no cap for passengers arriving in NSW from NZ ( as long as they have been there for 14 days ). They walk out of customs into the sunlight and do as they please.
 
Kent350787
Posts: 1562
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 12:06 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:34 am

DeltaB717 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
I agree these numbers don't compute with the claims about large numbers of people desperate to return to Australia. Like I said, grain of salt.


I saw a news item this morning that showed the number of quarantine places available versus the estimate of people wanted to return. If the daily capacity is reached, all returnees could be home before Christmas.
S340/J31/146-300/F27/F50/Nord 262/Q100/200/E195/733/734/738/744/762/763/77W/788/789/320/321/332/333/345/359
 
ArtV
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Wed Oct 21, 2020 6:04 am

Kent350787 wrote:
DeltaB717 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
I agree these numbers don't compute with the claims about large numbers of people desperate to return to Australia. Like I said, grain of salt.


I saw a news item this morning that showed the number of quarantine places available versus the estimate of people wanted to return. If the daily capacity is reached, all returnees could be home before Christmas.


There are significant problems though, with this analysis. There are 10's (if not 100's) of thousands of Australians abroad (like myself), that have not registered any specific interest in returning to Australia right now - as my job and family is safe, and everything is going well - but, if there was an opportunity to return, with an easing of arrival restrictions and price gouging by airlines (in fairness, due to the cap forced on them), then many more Australians will seek to return home for a period too. This may absorb a good portion of the arrival availability, and will push the current issue well into 2021...
 
Kent350787
Posts: 1562
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 12:06 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Wed Oct 21, 2020 6:18 am

ArtV wrote:
Kent350787 wrote:
DeltaB717 wrote:


I saw a news item this morning that showed the number of quarantine places available versus the estimate of people wanted to return. If the daily capacity is reached, all returnees could be home before Christmas.


There are significant problems though, with this analysis. There are 10's (if not 100's) of thousands of Australians abroad (like myself), that have not registered any specific interest in returning to Australia right now - as my job and family is safe, and everything is going well - but, if there was an opportunity to return, with an easing of arrival restrictions and price gouging by airlines (in fairness, due to the cap forced on them), then many more Australians will seek to return home for a period too. This may absorb a good portion of the arrival availability, and will push the current issue well into 2021...


I don't entirely disagree, but the current numbers bandied about aren't just registrations of interest.

I was musing somewhere a few weeks ago that I'd see a limited period Government charters billed for cost recovery could push the flight supply/price issue along a little.
S340/J31/146-300/F27/F50/Nord 262/Q100/200/E195/733/734/738/744/762/763/77W/788/789/320/321/332/333/345/359
 
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CraigAnderson
Posts: 600
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:44 am

Some very interesting points raised in this article, not just the expected unbundling to make Virgin Australia economy more like Jetstar but also how the lack of competition might lead Qantas to cut back east-west A330s and "consider charging for some add-ons on its cheapest sale fares without losing customers."

New Virgin Australia strategy spells end of business travel arms race

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-aust ... SKBN2750EX
 
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CraigAnderson
Posts: 600
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:45 am

In light of Jayne Hrdlicka taking over Virgin and making it more like Jetstar, I propose that Bain's new Virgin instead of being called VA 2.0 should be named "JayneStar".
 
VHOGU
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:50 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:55 pm

tullamarine wrote:
The Australian (paywall) has an article regarding CBA transferring the ex-VA A332 it owns (XFJ I think) to KUL (ultimate destination unknown) following claiming it back as part of the administration. Article also has photo of the plane as it left hangar at MEL. Plane is now a white-tail; the only tell-tale of its prior life are the red rings on the engine nacelles and the red winglets.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/commonwealth-bank-takes-back-virgin-plane/news-story/f4642a787a0fba71f4b642b601f0ba3a

XFJ went to Tarbes, France
 
grh
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:37 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:15 pm

First Alliance E190 has been spotted in new paint.

https://www.facebook.com/elaviadorcr/ph ... 192992101/

Reg is VH-UYZ
 
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SCFlyer
Posts: 631
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:28 pm

CraigAnderson wrote:
In light of Jayne Hrdlicka taking over Virgin and making it more like Jetstar, I propose that Bain's new Virgin instead of being called VA 2.0 should be named "JayneStar".


Probably safe to say in light of the added Velocity International Partnerships cutbacks on top of this article (e.g no more VA codeshares), that any any expensive 'full membership' global alliance is to be off the table for the foreseeable future. The alternative apart from Connect (-ing Partner) level is the Value Alliance with the Asian LCCs, which also has a 'J' for their long haul routes.

VA's speculated positioning is closer to "Connect (ing Partners)" level, a cheaper alternative, although arguably 'pointess' where the differences is just putting on a "Connect" sticker, where they can work with only a handful of carriers whilst steering clear of other carriers (especially those considered 'hostile rivals' such as UA).

I'd be interested to see what the "J" (or is it 'Premium Economy") catering will be if they intend to upgrade (again) from the Snack Boxes (in itself an upgrade from the 'Fantastic Two Minute' noodles with a bite sized snack).
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2590
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:36 pm

SCFlyer wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
In light of Jayne Hrdlicka taking over Virgin and making it more like Jetstar, I propose that Bain's new Virgin instead of being called VA 2.0 should be named "JayneStar".


Probably safe to say in light of the added Velocity International Partnerships cutbacks on top of this article (e.g no more VA codeshares), that any any expensive 'full membership' global alliance is to be off the table for the foreseeable future. The alternative apart from Connect (-ing Partner) level is the Value Alliance with the Asian LCCs, which also has a 'J' for their long haul routes.

VA's speculated positioning is closer to "Connect (ing Partners)" level, a cheaper alternative, although arguably 'pointess' where the differences is just putting on a "Connect" sticker, where they can work with only a handful of carriers whilst steering clear of other carriers (especially those considered 'hostile rivals' such as UA).

I'd be interested to see what the "J" (or is it 'Premium Economy") catering will be if they intend to upgrade (again) from the Snack Boxes (in itself an upgrade from the 'Fantastic Two Minute' noodles with a bite sized snack).

International travel will be seriously suppressed for at least the next 18 months so VA has the luxury of not having to rush into any decision and at the moment my guess would be Bain will see zero value in bothering with a global alliance.

Personally I don't think global alliances have a great future and have never achieved their original aims of consistent service standards, global recognition and common FF programs. Instead we've ended up with camels like Star that have airlines from the very good SQ through to the perennially terrible UA grouped together providing zero chance of a successful outcome.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
x1234
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:23 am

I haven't caught up on the news yet but how much longer is there going to be a quartantine in Australia? Is it controlled like China or still spreading like wildfire like the USA?
 
qf002
Posts: 3681
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:14 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:51 am

x1234 wrote:
I haven't caught up on the news yet but how much longer is there going to be a quartantine in Australia? Is it controlled like China or still spreading like wildfire like the USA?


We are nearing eradication with only a handful of new cases each day which are almost all overseas travellers in hotel quarantine.

Only Melbourne is still in lockdown and they will be coming out of it in the next couple of weeks. The rest of the country is functioning pretty much as normal.
 
Kent350787
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Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 12:06 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:44 am

qf002 wrote:
x1234 wrote:
I haven't caught up on the news yet but how much longer is there going to be a quartantine in Australia? Is it controlled like China or still spreading like wildfire like the USA?


We are nearing eradication with only a handful of new cases each day which are almost all overseas travellers in hotel quarantine.

Only Melbourne is still in lockdown and they will be coming out of it in the next couple of weeks. The rest of the country is functioning pretty much as normal.


Unlocking quarantine requirements will take some time. At the moment, people from other states must quarantine for 14 days to enter Qld or WA. Victorians must quarantine for any other states. NZ residents can travel to NSW, SA, NT and ACT without quarantine, but must still quarantine for 14 days when (if?) they go back.

The main thing ATM is getting Victoria under control, although it only has 105 active cases - there are concerns about some unlinked cases which may be pointers to untraced clusters. NSW has 53 active local cases, now all linked to known clusters.

I'd expect that Qld will open its borders to NSW pretty soon after the election, and then Victoria will be in a position to be allowed out :) WA seems still to be sticking to elimination, so may resist reopening for longer.

Outside NZ, its going to be a long road to reopening international borders without quarantine..
S340/J31/146-300/F27/F50/Nord 262/Q100/200/E195/733/734/738/744/762/763/77W/788/789/320/321/332/333/345/359
 
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CraigAnderson
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:54 am

Next in the no-surprise department, "Virgin to ditch free meals, snacks, drinks in economy"

Virgin Australia is expected to remove free food and drinks from economy class and potentially adopt a 'buy on board' model when new owners Bain Capital reveals its plans for the rescued and rebooted airline next month


I actually think this is sensible, it's not like what you get in economy is anything near a 'meal' anyway, Borghetti just added this so he could claim that just like Qantas every passenger got a meal, even though it was basically a snack. Of course it's very much a JayneStar move but what do people expect, the alleged 'full service' Virgin Australia was never full service unless you were in business class anyway.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... in-economy
 
TTJonas
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:09 am

Free food and drink - you mean the singular rum ball or half a muesli bar they give you and a mini can of coke?
Honestly nothing of value is lost with this. It existed purely so they could say they provide free food and drink on a technicality.
 
brucetiki
Posts: 227
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:14 am

TTJonas wrote:
Free food and drink - you mean the singular rum ball or half a muesli bar they give you and a mini can of coke?
Honestly nothing of value is lost with this. It existed purely so they could say they provide free food and drink on a technicality.


Can of Coke?

Outside of 'happy hour' it was juice/water/tea/coffee only.

I'd rather pay a few bucks and get something of my choosing to be honest. The demise of the protein ball and cup of water can only be a good thing for VA.
The early bird catches the worm, the late bird will be featured on a You Tube video
 
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CraigAnderson
Posts: 600
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:19 am

Question, has anybody here noticed a change in the 'tenor' of media coverage of Virgin Australia since Bain knifed Scurrah in the back?

Obviously that very act of bastardry deserved a few stories on its own, not just the "Scurrah out, Jayne in" stories but it also earned Virgin some very critical pieces, but does it seem that even in the past week we have seen more 'negative' stories about Virgin, maybe because stuff is starting to leak from Virgin staff who are very angry at Bain for what they did to Scurrah, or maybe the media is now more suspicious of Bain after last week's knifing of Scurrah against their previous claims of support.
 
PJ01
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:53 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:28 am

Kent350787 wrote:
qf002 wrote:
x1234 wrote:
I haven't caught up on the news yet but how much longer is there going to be a quartantine in Australia? Is it controlled like China or still spreading like wildfire like the USA?


We are nearing eradication with only a handful of new cases each day which are almost all overseas travellers in hotel quarantine.

Only Melbourne is still in lockdown and they will be coming out of it in the next couple of weeks. The rest of the country is functioning pretty much as normal.


Unlocking quarantine requirements will take some time. At the moment, people from other states must quarantine for 14 days to enter Qld or WA. Victorians must quarantine for any other states. NZ residents can travel to NSW, SA, NT and ACT without quarantine, but must still quarantine for 14 days when (if?) they go back.

The main thing ATM is getting Victoria under control, although it only has 105 active cases - there are concerns about some unlinked cases which may be pointers to untraced clusters. NSW has 53 active local cases, now all linked to known clusters.

I'd expect that Qld will open its borders to NSW pretty soon after the election, and then Victoria will be in a position to be allowed out :) WA seems still to be sticking to elimination, so may resist reopening for longer.

Outside NZ, its going to be a long road to reopening international borders without quarantine..


As far as i'm aware, QLD only requires quarantine for people coming from NSW and Victoria (domestic). All else is open, with the QLD/NSW border due to open November 1st at this stage. That will hopefully allow some more flights to start running again.
 
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EK413
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:33 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
Question, has anybody here noticed a change in the 'tenor' of media coverage of Virgin Australia since Bain knifed Scurrah in the back?

Obviously that very act of bastardry deserved a few stories on its own, not just the "Scurrah out, Jayne in" stories but it also earned Virgin some very critical pieces, but does it seem that even in the past week we have seen more 'negative' stories about Virgin, maybe because stuff is starting to leak from Virgin staff who are very angry at Bain for what they did to Scurrah, or maybe the media is now more suspicious of Bain after last week's knifing of Scurrah against their previous claims of support.

I hope P. Scurrah ends up at QF HQ. I honestly believe he was the man to turn VA around, unfortunately Covid came along.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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qf002
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:40 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
Question, has anybody here noticed a change in the 'tenor' of media coverage of Virgin Australia since Bain knifed Scurrah in the back?


It's the start of exactly what I raised earlier in the thread, the optics around the airline are changing.

Bain is playing a dangerous game - you do not want to be making big, radical changes at a time when your customers are so disconnected. While QF/JQ customers will go back to something familiar and comforting, VA customers will return to something entirely new and different (possibly even a new brand) so why not go to ZL for less money (or a higher standard of service, I'm still not quite clear where they plan to position themselves)?

Negative media coverage (which QF will do anything they can to stoke) will only alienate more of their customer base, especially at a time when it's so hard for them to directly engage/communicate with their core customers.

It will certainly be interesting to watch.
 
smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:52 am

grh wrote:
First Alliance E190 has been spotted in new paint.

https://www.facebook.com/elaviadorcr/ph ... 192992101/

Reg is VH-UYZ


Wow looks great! I love it. Alliance is sure a carrier to watch for, adding some interesting scheduled routes here and there too.

Nice to have some good news, and some additions to someone’s fleet!
 
eamondzhang
Posts: 1876
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:56 am

qf002 wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
Question, has anybody here noticed a change in the 'tenor' of media coverage of Virgin Australia since Bain knifed Scurrah in the back?


It's the start of exactly what I raised earlier in the thread, the optics around the airline are changing.

Bain is playing a dangerous game - you do not want to be making big, radical changes at a time when your customers are so disconnected. While QF/JQ customers will go back to something familiar and comforting, VA customers will return to something entirely new and different (possibly even a new brand) so why not go to ZL for less money (or a higher standard of service, I'm still not quite clear where they plan to position themselves)?

Negative media coverage (which QF will do anything they can to stoke) will only alienate more of their customer base, especially at a time when it's so hard for them to directly engage/communicate with their core customers.

It will certainly be interesting to watch.

I'm pretty sure ZL will go value route like it currently does - i.e. with luggage, drink and snack

Since it's planning to introduce business as well this will give them some edge in taking over VA's corporate traffic once this comes back IMO

Michael
 
smi0006
Posts: 2581
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:59 am

qf002 wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
Question, has anybody here noticed a change in the 'tenor' of media coverage of Virgin Australia since Bain knifed Scurrah in the back?


It's the start of exactly what I raised earlier in the thread, the optics around the airline are changing.

Bain is playing a dangerous game - you do not want to be making big, radical changes at a time when your customers are so disconnected. While QF/JQ customers will go back to something familiar and comforting, VA customers will return to something entirely new and different (possibly even a new brand) so why not go to ZL for less money (or a higher standard of service, I'm still not quite clear where they plan to position themselves)?

Negative media coverage (which QF will do anything they can to stoke) will only alienate more of their customer base, especially at a time when it's so hard for them to directly engage/communicate with their core customers.

It will certainly be interesting to watch.


Indeed and Australians love an under dog, VA was ‘semi perceived’ as one against the mighty QF. But if they aren’t careful ZL will be nipping at their heals and take on that title.

I think VA are in a precarious situation. They may have shed a lot of their cost base, but so have QF. And I can’t see them getting their costs down to JQ/ZL levels. I hope they can fine tune their revenue to be just in the middle of the market, but a dangerous place to be, a little at the mercy of your competitors and it hasn’t proved their strength in the past. A lot of labour contracts can’t simply be torn up, and cut as the media have suggested. Rightly or wrongly now is not the time to disengage your workforce, whilst their is a surplus of labour in the job market, you can’t simply replace people because they are disengaged.
 
QF41
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 12:21 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:32 am

Anyone know what VH-VOQ is doing is ASP? VA starting to put some planes in storage?
Must be somewhere can't be nowhere

QF, VA, JQ, SQ, AA, BA, DJ, MH, RJ, EK, EY, GA, AY, LA, CU, UL, NZ, CI, PR, AZ, AT, U2, MZ, NC, 3K
 
moa999
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:11 am

7 news reporting 175 on the first of the new round of QF flights from LHR to DRW

Scheduled as QF110 departing in an hour from this post.
 
melpax
Posts: 2070
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:13 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:38 am

smi0006 wrote:

Indeed and Australians love an under dog, VA was ‘semi perceived’ as one against the mighty QF. But if they aren’t careful ZL will be nipping at their heals and take on that title.

I think VA are in a precarious situation. They may have shed a lot of their cost base, but so have QF. And I can’t see them getting their costs down to JQ/ZL levels. I hope they can fine tune their revenue to be just in the middle of the market, but a dangerous place to be, a little at the mercy of your competitors and it hasn’t proved their strength in the past. A lot of labour contracts can’t simply be torn up, and cut as the media have suggested. Rightly or wrongly now is not the time to disengage your workforce, whilst their is a surplus of labour in the job market, you can’t simply replace people because they are disengaged.


In a previous life, I worked as a Store Manager for a well known 'Reject' retailer while it was owned by private equity (Mac Bank). Costs were being stripped out of the business at a rapid rate, those of us in Store Management were working 80 hour weeks just to keep up in a toxic enviroment. Which lead to massive levels of staff turnover. Senior management could barely care, the place was one big merry-go-round. Will never work for a company owned by private equity again.....
Essendon - Whatever it takes......
 
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ClassicLover
Posts: 4963
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:42 am

tullamarine wrote:
Personally I don't think global alliances have a great future and have never achieved their original aims of consistent service standards, global recognition and common FF programs. Instead we've ended up with camels like Star that have airlines from the very good SQ through to the perennially terrible UA grouped together providing zero chance of a successful outcome.


People have been saying this for years, that alliances don't have a great future, yet here we are and they still exist. Frequent flyers love them - which is evident from the years of sadness from Australians that there is no local Star Alliance domestic airline.

When it comes to oneworld, they do a good job. I've flown with QF, CX, AY, BA, AA, LA (before they left), EI (before they left), RJ and QR and global recognition is certainly there, plus consistent enough standards on board.

Not sure about your "common FF programs" comment. The oneworld launch press release from 22 September 1998 states, "The intention to enhance existing co-operation between the airlines in the field of frequent flyer programmes, enabling them in particular to provide more mileage awards, wider recognition for top-tier customers and access to more airport clubs and lounges."

and

"Smoother transfers for passengers travelling across the global networks of the five carriers.
Greater support, with employees of each airline equipped to assist and care for customers travelling with any of the oneworld airlines.
Greater value, through a range of round-the-world products."

I don't think there ever was an intention to have common frequent flyer programmes.
I do enjoy a spot of flying, especially when it's not in economy!
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:13 am

qf002 wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
Question, has anybody here noticed a change in the 'tenor' of media coverage of Virgin Australia since Bain knifed Scurrah in the back?


It's the start of exactly what I raised earlier in the thread, the optics around the airline are changing.

Bain is playing a dangerous game - you do not want to be making big, radical changes at a time when your customers are so disconnected. While QF/JQ customers will go back to something familiar and comforting, VA customers will return to something entirely new and different (possibly even a new brand) so why not go to ZL for less money (or a higher standard of service, I'm still not quite clear where they plan to position themselves)?

Negative media coverage (which QF will do anything they can to stoke) will only alienate more of their customer base, especially at a time when it's so hard for them to directly engage/communicate with their core customers.

It will certainly be interesting to watch.


While I have no doubt that Qantas are very happy to fan the flames of negative media publicity, I suspect that Virgin is leaking like a sieve right now. Nothing gets stories placed in the media like unhappy staff.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
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SCFlyer
Posts: 631
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:26 am

ClassicLover wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
Personally I don't think global alliances have a great future and have never achieved their original aims of consistent service standards, global recognition and common FF programs. Instead we've ended up with camels like Star that have airlines from the very good SQ through to the perennially terrible UA grouped together providing zero chance of a successful outcome.


People have been saying this for years, that alliances don't have a great future, yet here we are and they still exist. Frequent flyers love them - which is evident from the years of sadness from Australians that there is no local Star Alliance domestic airline.


Depending on how REX goes with their Jet services, if they had 'moderate' success than there's the chance that ZL could be 'talked up' as a potential member.
ZL's predecessors were formerly Star Alliance affiliates through their now defunct former owner.

Star had publicly said they were not interested in 'chasing VA up' a few years ago on the back of the NZ boardroom bickering, and VA still has too much baggage to sort out which will likely be the case for the medium term foreseeable future.

Plus I suspect Bain won't be interested in signing up for Global Alliance memberships considering the costs of joining, and Bain's primary aim will always be maximising their return on investment. Diverting outside of their main aims such as Global Alliances won't be on Bain's mind.
 
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RyanairGuru
Posts: 8468
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:40 am

SCFlyer wrote:
ClassicLover wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
Personally I don't think global alliances have a great future and have never achieved their original aims of consistent service standards, global recognition and common FF programs. Instead we've ended up with camels like Star that have airlines from the very good SQ through to the perennially terrible UA grouped together providing zero chance of a successful outcome.


People have been saying this for years, that alliances don't have a great future, yet here we are and they still exist. Frequent flyers love them - which is evident from the years of sadness from Australians that there is no local Star Alliance domestic airline.


Depending on how REX goes with their Jet services, if they had 'moderate' success than there's the chance that ZL could be 'talked up' as a potential member.
ZL's predecessors were formerly Star Alliance affiliates through their now defunct former owner.

Star had publicly said they were not interested in 'chasing VA up' a few years ago on the back of the NZ boardroom bickering, and VA still has too much baggage to sort out which will likely be the case for the medium term foreseeable future.

Plus I suspect Bain won't be interested in signing up for Global Alliance memberships considering the costs of joining, and Bain's primary aim will always be maximising their return on investment. Diverting outside of their main aims such as Global Alliances won't be on Bain's mind.


As has already been pointed out to you, that “now defunct owner” entered administration over 19 years ago. That’s about as relevant as saying Canadian Airlines were a OneWorld member so there’s a chance Air Canada will move across.

I sincerely doubt Rex will join an alliance. They are notoriously frugal, and will stop to pick up a penny. That strategy has worked for them. The costs of joining an alliance would be immediately dismissed in the Rex boardroom. In addition to direct costs, there would be indirect costs as well, because of how lean Rex run their operation. For example, I admit to not actually knowing what res system they use, but it is very basic. The cost of upgrading to Amadeus or Sabre to properly integrate with global partners would be unpalatable for the Rex board. In comparison, Fiji Airways were already on Amadeus before becoming a “OneWorld Connect” member so there was less ground work to do.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
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CraigAnderson
Posts: 600
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:53 am

Some interesting things coming out of QF AGM today.

Qantas could launch flights to South Korea, Taiwan to take advantage of travel bubbles, didn't they use to fly there maybe 15-20 years ago?
https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... rea-taiwan

Qantas still running at under 30% of normal domestic capacity due to border closures, says NSW-QLD border opening could see domestic capacity at 50% by Christmas.
https://www.reuters.com/article/qantas- ... SL4N2HE00F

The Australian's Robyn Ironside on Twitter: "Qantas CEO Alan Joyce says airline will expect the same concessions from unions as those that they may be given to Virgin Australia in new enterprise agreements."
https://twitter.com/ironsider/status/13 ... 6857102336

Also on Twitter, South China Morning Post's Danny Lee: "Qantas expect big gains from Virgin Australia changing strategy" https://twitter.com/JournoDannyAero/sta ... 0922710017
Alan Joyce says "Over time, our domestic market share is likely to increase organically from around 60 per cent to around 70 per cent, as our main competitor changes its strategy."
 
zkncj
Posts: 3914
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:03 am

SCFlyer wrote:
ClassicLover wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
Personally I don't think global alliances have a great future and have never achieved their original aims of consistent service standards, global recognition and common FF programs. Instead we've ended up with camels like Star that have airlines from the very good SQ through to the perennially terrible UA grouped together providing zero chance of a successful outcome.


People have been saying this for years, that alliances don't have a great future, yet here we are and they still exist. Frequent flyers love them - which is evident from the years of sadness from Australians that there is no local Star Alliance domestic airline.


Depending on how REX goes with their Jet services, if they had 'moderate' success than there's the chance that ZL could be 'talked up' as a potential member.
ZL's predecessors were formerly Star Alliance affiliates through their now defunct former owner.

Star had publicly said they were not interested in 'chasing VA up' a few years ago on the back of the NZ boardroom bickering, and VA still has too much baggage to sort out which will likely be the case for the medium term foreseeable future.

Plus I suspect Bain won't be interested in signing up for Global Alliance memberships considering the costs of joining, and Bain's primary aim will always be maximising their return on investment. Diverting outside of their main aims such as Global Alliances won't be on Bain's mind.


Until the Global travel market is back to normal (which could take 3-5 years). I hardly think global alliances are worth much at all to airlines. I think you’ll see more airlines reviewing how much value they get from this alliances versus having partnership with an couple of key airlines to there business.

REX technically was apart of *A for an short period while it as Kendal (under AN)
 
moa999
Posts: 980
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:37 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2020

Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:51 am

Assume QF can fly into TPE under its own branding as there is no government ownership those days.
They used AustraliaAsia Airways with a ribbon instead of the room from 1990 to 1996.

Believe KLM still uses KLM Asia branding,
But KLM Air France is still 14% owned by the Dutch and French Govts.
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