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AST1Driver
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ExpressJet/ASA Final Day

Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:26 am

September 30, 2020: ExpressJet/ASA has ceased operations after 41 years. The final flight was ASQ4001 MEM to IAH.
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: ExpressJet/ASA Final Day

Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:02 am

Many lessons here for future airline employees going the regional route.

Make it as temporary as possible people. Sorry Expressjet people.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: ExpressJet/ASA Final Day

Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:06 am

The writing was on the wall for this well before Covid. IMO, MANA AIR was set up for exactly this.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: ExpressJet/ASA Final Day

Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:49 am

Unfortunately ExpressJet has been dying a slow death for several years. It would have been hard to fathom years ago, but they had fallen awful far from the company they used to be. It's sad to see the pandemic take another aviation casualty, but it would have happened sooner or later anyway. Good luck to everyone displaced as a result...tough times for a lot of people these days.
 
UA748i
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Re: ExpressJet/ASA Final Day

Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:16 am

And so goes another piece of the CO legacy. Met many Expressjet crews, and all loved their job regardless.

Sad that airlines like Expressjet and Compass didn't survive the plague, while airlines like Commutair and Mesa do.
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: ExpressJet/ASA Final Day

Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:27 pm

UA748i wrote:
And so goes another piece of the CO legacy. Met many Expressjet crews, and all loved their job regardless.

Sad that airlines like Expressjet and Compass didn't survive the plague, while airlines like Commutair and Mesa do.


Compass was going away long before COVID, but COVID just accelerated the process.
From my cold, dead hands
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: ExpressJet/ASA Final Day

Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:55 pm

How ironic that the last flight was MEM-IAH when my first fight every in CO was on a COEX ATR MEM-IAH in 1998 or 1999.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: ExpressJet/ASA Final Day

Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:42 pm

UA748i wrote:
And so goes another piece of the CO legacy. Met many Expressjet crews, and all loved their job regardless.

Sad that airlines like Expressjet and Compass didn't survive the plague, while airlines like Commutair and Mesa do.


And the end of the last traces of my beloved RU, Britt Airways, the first airline I ever had the pleasure of working for.
 
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Rajahdhani
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Re: ExpressJet/ASA Final Day

Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:47 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
Unfortunately ExpressJet has been dying a slow death for several years. It would have been hard to fathom years ago, but they had fallen awful far from the company they used to be. It's sad to see the pandemic take another aviation casualty, but it would have happened sooner or later anyway. Good luck to everyone displaced as a result...tough times for a lot of people these days.


I get that today, and the next few ones are going to be hard to get thorough (and so, probably ill advised timing) but, one day - can you expand on that a little more. I get that many of the carriers in this class changed, but I wonder about specifics and would love to know more about what moves may have contributed to where they ended up. What was their legacy? How did they get here? That sort of stuff, if you have the time/don't mind.
 
F9Animal
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Re: ExpressJet/ASA Final Day

Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:02 pm

Very very sad day indeed. When the big regionals were looked at in the late 90's they appeared invincible. Today, it's jaw dropping how many have gone under. Skywest is the powerhouse of Regionals now. One must ask.... How long will Skywest be king?

My heart goes out to all the airline workers hurt by all of this somber news.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
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william
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Re: ExpressJet/ASA Final Day

Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:19 pm

When I think of ASA, I think of the plane that made them the original power house, the EMB-120 and how Delta at the time let their partners keep their own livery so as to keep up their identity. ATW did many an articles on ASA. Sad that it has come to this.

ExpressJet, was known for their going full in on the Embraer Jet and the high standards set at their IAH hub. Another ATW front cover darling back in the day.
 
Ionosphere
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Re: ExpressJet/ASA Final Day

Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:54 pm

There was so much history in ExpressJet. Atlantic Southeast, Bar Harbor, Britt, Provincetown-Boston, and Rocky Mountain all eventually became ExpressJet.
 
hpff
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Re: ExpressJet/ASA Final Day

Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:53 pm

I remember flying their short-lived branded service from one mid-sized market to another mid-sized market. Was clean, quick and comfortable, though a couple of hours delayed on the outbound. Not entirely sure if I ever flew them after that because of the way the regionals work, but was sad to see their branded service go and am sad to see them go now.

Good luck to all the employees.
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: ExpressJet/ASA Final Day

Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:07 pm

william wrote:
When I think of ASA, I think of the plane that made them the original power house, the EMB-120 and how Delta at the time let their partners keep their own livery so as to keep up their identity. ATW did many an articles on ASA. Sad that it has come to this.

ExpressJet, was known for their going full in on the Embraer Jet and the high standards set at their IAH hub. Another ATW front cover darling back in the day.


After the Comair and ACA/Independence Air debacles, the Majors, starting with Delta, demanded total control over planning and branding. Never again did they want to risk a regional carrier threatening to go it alone, and becoming a competitor, or becoming so big that they could dictate terms to the mother carrier. The regionals became contract capacity providers, instead of true regional, local service providers.
 
ScottB
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Re: ExpressJet/ASA Final Day

Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:34 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
Compass was going away long before COVID, but COVID just accelerated the process.


The same could be said about ExpressJet. With a very senior workforce and a fleet composed of a single type which was falling out of favor, it was almost inevitable that they'd end up as the victim of another wave of regional carrier consolidation even without Covid. As I pointed out in another thread, ASA and ExpressJet at one time were operating well over 400 aircraft combined. That EV had shrunk so much did not bode well.

Rajahdhani wrote:
I wonder about specifics and would love to know more about what moves may have contributed to where they ended up. What was their legacy?


Really, what happened to EV is a common refrain in the regional carrier space in the U.S. Their fates are largely controlled by their mainline partners and because the product, schedules, and branding are controlled by the marketing carrier, the regionals are somewhat fungible. ExpressJet was originally Continental Express and had been stitched together from a collection of regional carriers owned by Continental/Texas Air Corp. As CO introduced ERJs into its wholly-owned regional carrier fleet, the combined regional carrier was renamed to ExpressJet and ultimately spun off in a 2002 IPO, the proceeds of which helped keep CO out of bankruptcy. As the capacity purchase agreements put in place prior to the IPO started to expire, CO management started to tighten the screws in order to extract cost savings from ExpressJet. This ultimately let to the disastrous foray into branded flying (although not quite as catastrophic as ACA's transformation into Independence Air).

After heavy losses from branded flying, ExpressJet was purchased by SkyWest, which had also bought ASA from Delta in 2005 as Delta was unloading assets to raise cash prior to its bankruptcy. SkyWest combined ExpressJet and ASA but kept it as separate from its non-union operation. After reporting heavy losses from ExpressJet and winding down EV's contracts with DL & AA, SkyWest sold ExpressJet to United.

The short version: Years of growth from offering the new hotness (50-seat regional jets) followed by a long decline thanks to higher costs from a relatively senior workforce, along with 50-seat jets becoming increasingly obsolete. Combine that with customers (the mainline carriers) with absolutely no compunctions about squeezing their vendors into bankruptcy.
 
ScottB
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Re: ExpressJet/ASA Final Day

Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:47 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:
After the Comair and ACA/Independence Air debacles, the Majors, starting with Delta, demanded total control over planning and branding. Never again did they want to risk a regional carrier threatening to go it alone, and becoming a competitor, or becoming so big that they could dictate terms to the mother carrier. The regionals became contract capacity providers, instead of true regional, local service providers.


To be fair, both Comair debacles (the pilot strike and the Christmas operations meltdown) happened under Delta ownership. ACA's transformation into Independence Air was entirely motivated by United's attempt to impose an unreasonable capacity purchase agreement on ACA which would have made ACA unprofitable. That was part of UA's playbook during its bankruptcy -- it's why ZW ended up becoming a US Express carrier in exchange for helping to finance US Airways' emergence from bankruptcy -- ZW had been a long-time United Express carrier. UA probably would have tried to squeeze SkyWest, too, except that UA probably needed OO more than OO needed UA.

Delta's lesson from Comair wasn't really about branding; it was more about relying on single regional carriers at individual hubs. CVG was absolutely crippled by the OH pilots' strike. At one point pre-merger, DL had something like 8 or 9 different regional carriers to manage that risk and keep the vendors in line on pricing.
 
strfyr51
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Re: ExpressJet/ASA Final Day

Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:54 pm

This is a sad day for sure. I worked at one of the few carriers to refused to fly under a major's colors and I believe had not the boss not been "dipping his pen"? the Company might still be in /Business today. I believe it was always a mistake for any regional to fly under anything But their own colors. Because you lose sight of the bigger picture and you get a false sense of confidence , When you're buying the planes? And you're footing the reservations bill? You tend to know the cost and value of everything in your operation. And these guys don't know Jack! Fee per Departure and someone else owning your airplanes? That's not an airline. That;s another version of Yelloe Cab Company.
 
AWACSooner
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Re: ExpressJet/ASA Final Day

Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:26 pm

hpff wrote:
I remember flying their short-lived branded service from one mid-sized market to another mid-sized market. Was clean, quick and comfortable, though a couple of hours delayed on the outbound. Not entirely sure if I ever flew them after that because of the way the regionals work, but was sad to see their branded service go and am sad to see them go now.

Good luck to all the employees.

I LOVED their branded ops! Took them all the time from SAT to OKC nearly every weekend when I was in Nav school at Randolph and the Mrs was in Norman. Flight left 6 pm on a Friday, caught the return at 8 pm Sunday. Plus free XM and a sandwich for a 1 hour flight. Wish they could've stuck it out, but there was no way that operation was ever going to be sustainable.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: ExpressJet/ASA Final Day

Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:57 pm

Rajahdhani wrote:
I get that today, and the next few ones are going to be hard to get thorough (and so, probably ill advised timing) but, one day - can you expand on that a little more. I get that many of the carriers in this class changed, but I wonder about specifics and would love to know more about what moves may have contributed to where they ended up. What was their legacy? How did they get here? That sort of stuff, if you have the time/don't mind.

To make sure I didn't botch the facts, I texted my best friend/former college roommate about this. He served three tours at XJT, but has fortunately moved onto much greener pastures. Below, I've more or less copied what he texted me, with his permission of course. It's pretty lengthy, but it's a pretty good picture of the slow demise of the carrier going back roughly 15 years.


A lot of problems began in 2005, when Continental wanted to take back the newest E145LRs and some XRs to place them at Chautauqua (presumably for lower costs). It would have been a reduction of 69 aircraft. XJT refused, and started their own branded flying ("Aquafresh Air Force"), which was successful. They paid well and made good money. CO ultimately got screwed because they never got to use the airplanes, leaving Chautauqua to acquire CRJ2s, which were weight restricted and performed particularly poorly at IAH in the summer.

In 2008, Continental told XJT they wanted the airplanes back, and if they didn't terminate the flying, CO would dump XJT completely. It was not unprofitable, but CO was pissed about losing passengers due to the lousy 200s. SkyWest offered to buy XJT, but ultimately dropped the offer.

After that, then CEO Jim Ream began Operation Green Light. Essentially, he did everything he could to sell the company to SkyWest. They sold off all their parts, cut costs as much as possible, and cheapened the whole airline. SkyWest purchased ASA, and in 2010, ExpressJet, due to the success of "Green Light".

SkyWest ultimately wanted to run XJT, a competitor, into the ground. They made the new ExpressJet use their scheduling program, FLICA by Sabre, as well as their in-house webpage and schedule viewer, SkedPlus (dumping CCS at legacy-XJT and SABRE at legacy-ASA), and made them pay some ridiculous price per month for the "service". Someone said it allegedly cost the company 100k a month for that.

SkyWest shut down every ASA and XJT station, and replaced them with contract vendors. American Eagle and DGS began working UA XJT flights at rock bottom prices for rock bottom service. This ultimately reflected poorly on XJT's ability to operate said flying, and screwed their on-time metrics.

Tin foil hat moment, but the rumor was SKW forced XJT bid on flying at such low costs that it was at a loss or at the very least just breaking even. This paved the way for them to renegotiate flying with UA that led to the breaking up of the fleet. They'd park the old 145EP's and the XRs were split between XJT, Commutair, and Trans States. SkyWest dumped a significantly smaller XJT to Mana Air and they became solely UA.

To say there was bad blood between XJT/ASA and SkyWest would be an understatement. Although technically it was the holdings company SkyWest, Inc. that owned SkyWest and XJT, their pilots saw it as SkyWest owned XJT. SKW during their tenure also sold off a lot of the XJT/ASA assets. The hangar (A-Tech) in ATL to Delta, the XJT repair facility in Shreveport to Western Global, cut down the staffing at the XJT hangar in Knoxville, and sold off the XJT/COEX owned paint shop in Saltillo, MX (part of the Green Light sell-off).

I think UA always had the idea to pit C5 and XJT against each other. With the combined pilot group of XJT and ASA, there were a lot of very senior people that made it top heavy on both the pilot and FA sides. Commutair had that too, but they were much smaller, as they only flew 30-40 Dash 8s, not the 200+ fleet of 145s at XJT.

Things looked great when they got the 175s. I remember talking to friends there, and they felt that there was a renewed sense of purpose for the company and the future was bright. The death knell came when United decided to stick the 175s at another carrier, and again, I'm not sure of their reasoning, other than they were looking for a lower bidder who was desperate to find flying (e.g. Compass).

United decided not to renew the TSA flying, and the airplanes were going to be returned to XJT. But then COVID hit, and it accelerated the shut down of that flying. While there was a sting for the loss of the 175s, XJT countered they'd still be growing by the gain of the 30 XRs again. But again, COVID. In true United fashion of not wasting a crisis, they decided they only wanted one wholly (ehh loosely) owned carrier on the 145. It came down to who could be cheapest. XJT and their larger high paid pilot group, or Commutair. As an accountant, it's easy to see who's going to win there.
 
dstblj52
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Re: ExpressJet/ASA Final Day

Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:36 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
Rajahdhani wrote:
I get that today, and the next few ones are going to be hard to get thorough (and so, probably ill advised timing) but, one day - can you expand on that a little more. I get that many of the carriers in this class changed, but I wonder about specifics and would love to know more about what moves may have contributed to where they ended up. What was their legacy? How did they get here? That sort of stuff, if you have the time/don't mind.

To make sure I didn't botch the facts, I texted my best friend/former college roommate about this. He served three tours at XJT, but has fortunately moved onto much greener pastures. Below, I've more or less copied what he texted me, with his permission of course. It's pretty lengthy, but it's a pretty good picture of the slow demise of the carrier going back roughly 15 years.


A lot of problems began in 2005, when Continental wanted to take back the newest E145LRs and some XRs to place them at Chautauqua (presumably for lower costs). It would have been a reduction of 69 aircraft. XJT refused, and started their own branded flying ("Aquafresh Air Force"), which was successful. They paid well and made good money. CO ultimately got screwed because they never got to use the airplanes, leaving Chautauqua to acquire CRJ2s, which were weight restricted and performed particularly poorly at IAH in the summer.

In 2008, Continental told XJT they wanted the airplanes back, and if they didn't terminate the flying, CO would dump XJT completely. It was not unprofitable, but CO was pissed about losing passengers due to the lousy 200s. SkyWest offered to buy XJT, but ultimately dropped the offer.

After that, then CEO Jim Ream began Operation Green Light. Essentially, he did everything he could to sell the company to SkyWest. They sold off all their parts, cut costs as much as possible, and cheapened the whole airline. SkyWest purchased ASA, and in 2010, ExpressJet, due to the success of "Green Light".

SkyWest ultimately wanted to run XJT, a competitor, into the ground. They made the new ExpressJet use their scheduling program, FLICA by Sabre, as well as their in-house webpage and schedule viewer, SkedPlus (dumping CCS at legacy-XJT and SABRE at legacy-ASA), and made them pay some ridiculous price per month for the "service". Someone said it allegedly cost the company 100k a month for that.

SkyWest shut down every ASA and XJT station, and replaced them with contract vendors. American Eagle and DGS began working UA XJT flights at rock bottom prices for rock bottom service. This ultimately reflected poorly on XJT's ability to operate said flying, and screwed their on-time metrics.

Tin foil hat moment, but the rumor was SKW forced XJT bid on flying at such low costs that it was at a loss or at the very least just breaking even. This paved the way for them to renegotiate flying with UA that led to the breaking up of the fleet. They'd park the old 145EP's and the XRs were split between XJT, Commutair, and Trans States. SkyWest dumped a significantly smaller XJT to Mana Air and they became solely UA.

To say there was bad blood between XJT/ASA and SkyWest would be an understatement. Although technically it was the holdings company SkyWest, Inc. that owned SkyWest and XJT, their pilots saw it as SkyWest owned XJT. SKW during their tenure also sold off a lot of the XJT/ASA assets. The hangar (A-Tech) in ATL to Delta, the XJT repair facility in Shreveport to Western Global, cut down the staffing at the XJT hangar in Knoxville, and sold off the XJT/COEX owned paint shop in Saltillo, MX (part of the Green Light sell-off).

I think UA always had the idea to pit C5 and XJT against each other. With the combined pilot group of XJT and ASA, there were a lot of very senior people that made it top heavy on both the pilot and FA sides. Commutair had that too, but they were much smaller, as they only flew 30-40 Dash 8s, not the 200+ fleet of 145s at XJT.

Things looked great when they got the 175s. I remember talking to friends there, and they felt that there was a renewed sense of purpose for the company and the future was bright. The death knell came when United decided to stick the 175s at another carrier, and again, I'm not sure of their reasoning, other than they were looking for a lower bidder who was desperate to find flying (e.g. Compass).

United decided not to renew the TSA flying, and the airplanes were going to be returned to XJT. But then COVID hit, and it accelerated the shut down of that flying. While there was a sting for the loss of the 175s, XJT countered they'd still be growing by the gain of the 30 XRs again. But again, COVID. In true United fashion of not wasting a crisis, they decided they only wanted one wholly (ehh loosely) owned carrier on the 145. It came down to who could be cheapest. XJT and their larger high paid pilot group, or Commutair. As an accountant, it's easy to see who's going to win there.

Just want to add a couple of details the ground handling decision was UA, not SkyWest and it was a smisek decision to cut costs, and the reasoning for giving the Ejets to mesa was that Mesa was willing to take them along with the financing obligation along with transtates collapse and UA needing to find an e145 operator for those jets quickly.
 
bourbon
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Re: ExpressJet/ASA Final Day

Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:13 pm

ASA management did a wonderful job tarnishing express jet. They had a big ego trip once they got their hands on all the Xjet aircraft yet didn’t know how to operate an airline so large. Kind of like what happened to AA..
 
ScottB
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Re: ExpressJet/ASA Final Day

Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:58 am

atcsundevil wrote:
XJT refused, and started their own branded flying ("Aquafresh Air Force"), which was successful. They paid well and made good money. CO ultimately got screwed because they never got to use the airplanes, leaving Chautauqua to acquire CRJ2s, which were weight restricted and performed particularly poorly at IAH in the summer.


Not to cast aspersions on your best friend, but he's wrong about the branded flying making good money. XJT reported a loss in the branded segment in 2007 of $114.6 million on $180.5 million in revenue. That's disastrous -- Independence Air-level bad -- and it also excludes overhead expenses shared across the entire company. 2008 wasn't quite as bad -- losses in branded flying had been cut to $67.8 million -- but they also ended branded flying in September of that year, calling it "impossible to sustain" in their 2008 annual report.

atcsundevil wrote:
After that, then CEO Jim Ream began Operation Green Light. Essentially, he did everything he could to sell the company to SkyWest. They sold off all their parts, cut costs as much as possible, and cheapened the whole airline. SkyWest purchased ASA, and in 2010, ExpressJet, due to the success of "Green Light".


They needed to find someone to buy the airline. ExpressJet went public at $16/share, which valued the company at $1.28 billion. SkyWest ended up buying it for $133 million -- just over a tenth of that. They didn't have the scale or fleet to effectively negotiate with a combined UA/CO. They were useful to SKYW as a larger SkyWest Holdings would have better leverage in negotiations with the consolidated legacy carriers.

atcsundevil wrote:
SkyWest ultimately wanted to run XJT, a competitor, into the ground. They made the new ExpressJet use their scheduling program, FLICA by Sabre, as well as their in-house webpage and schedule viewer, SkedPlus (dumping CCS at legacy-XJT and SABRE at legacy-ASA), and made them pay some ridiculous price per month for the "service". Someone said it allegedly cost the company 100k a month for that.


You might be right about dumping costs onto ASA/XJT, but $100K/month ($1.2 million/year) is peanuts compared to the losses SkyWest was reporting at ASA -- $301.5 million in 2016. The profit in the SkyWest Airlines segment was $23 million and the company as a whole lost a quarter billion dollars that year. That's not dumping costs -- that's a dumpster fire.

atcsundevil wrote:
Tin foil hat moment, but the rumor was SKW forced XJT bid on flying at such low costs that it was at a loss or at the very least just breaking even. This paved the way for them to renegotiate flying with UA that led to the breaking up of the fleet. They'd park the old 145EP's and the XRs were split between XJT, Commutair, and Trans States. SkyWest dumped a significantly smaller XJT to Mana Air and they became solely UA.


XJT was already becoming UA-only before the sale. Both AA and DL had terminated their agreements with ExpressJet in 2018. I can't see the logic in bidding XJT flying at a loss. A lowball bid could lead the mainline carriers to demand the same rates from OO and that could be devastating to the whole company. And pre-Covid, it had been clear for years that the scarcity of pilots willing to fly for low pay would ultimately doom 50-seater flying. That's why DL had eliminated the vast majority of 50-seat flying from its operation.
 
Alias1024
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Re: ExpressJet/ASA Final Day

Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:50 am

ScottB wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
XJT refused, and started their own branded flying ("Aquafresh Air Force"), which was successful. They paid well and made good money. CO ultimately got screwed because they never got to use the airplanes, leaving Chautauqua to acquire CRJ2s, which were weight restricted and performed particularly poorly at IAH in the summer.


Not to cast aspersions on your best friend, but he's wrong about the branded flying making good money. XJT reported a loss in the branded segment in 2007 of $114.6 million on $180.5 million in revenue. That's disastrous -- Independence Air-level bad -- and it also excludes overhead expenses shared across the entire company. 2008 wasn't quite as bad -- losses in branded flying had been cut to $67.8 million -- but they also ended branded flying in September of that year, calling it "impossible to sustain" in their 2008 annual report.



ExpressJet had horrible timing and luck with their branded operations. They faced sharply rising fuel prices with oil going from around $80 a barrel at the beginning of 2007 to over $140 a barrel by July 2008. They also made the choice to make ONT their largest station in the entire branded network right before the housing market imploded, with the Inland Empire being one of the hardest hit areas in the nation.

Another side effect of ExpressJet keeping those RJs when Chautauqua got the contract was that XJT put in a lowball offer to get a foot in the door with Delta. They were awarded some flying out of SLC which put them squarely in the sights of SkyWest. Not only did SkyWest feel like their turf was being invaded, but the cheap CPA triggered a rate reset clause in ASA's CPA with Delta which by that point was owned by SkyWest.

atcsundevil wrote:
In 2008, Continental told XJT they wanted the airplanes back, and if they didn't terminate the flying, CO would dump XJT completely. It was not unprofitable, but CO was pissed about losing passengers due to the lousy 200s. SkyWest offered to buy XJT, but ultimately dropped the offer.


ExpressJet had a second batch of aircraft due to go off CPA at the end of 2008 and $130 million in convertible notes coming due that summer. SkyWest saw a chance to eliminate a competitor one way or another. They negotiated a CPA with Continental for all 205 XJT airplanes flying for CO, contingent on ExpressJet agreeing to be purchased by SkyWest. If XJT did not agree to the purchase then SkyWest would be awarded the flying as the ExpressJet CPAs expired unless XJT agreed to match the rate SkyWest had negotiated. ExpressJet rejected the purchase offer and agreed to the lowered rate, while SkyWest walked away with a breakup fee for the signed agreement with Continental. ExpressJet was unable to be sustainably profitable at that rate, which led to their agreeing to be bought by SkyWest a couple years later.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
KFLLCFII
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Re: ExpressJet/ASA Final Day

Fri Oct 02, 2020 5:55 am

KlimaBXsst wrote:
Many lessons here for future airline employees going the regional route.

Make it as temporary as possible people. Sorry Expressjet people.

With what lies ahead for the entire airline industry, it's not just this lesson with regard to the regional route for future airline employees creeping up the ladder...The lesson is becoming "the airline industry as a career route" itself.
"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
 
ERAUMBA
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Re: ExpressJet/ASA Final Day

Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:39 am

TWA772LR wrote:
How ironic that the last flight was MEM-IAH when my first fight every in CO was on a COEX ATR MEM-IAH in 1998 or 1999.


So, you flew this airline twenty-plus years ago and their demise is “ironic” to you?

How “ironic” someone on a.net would write such a narcissistic and uncaring post. You have *nothing* to do with this airline, the employees or the wind-down of operations. How exactly do you find irony in this series of unfortunate events?

How sad for those airline professionals out of work today.
 
ERAUMBA
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Re: ExpressJet/ASA Final Day

Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:45 am

strfyr51 wrote:
This is a sad day for sure. I worked at one of the few carriers to refused to fly under a major's colors and I believe had not the boss not been "dipping his pen"? the Company might still be in /Business today. I believe it was always a mistake for any regional to fly under anything But their own colors. Because you lose sight of the bigger picture and you get a false sense of confidence , When you're buying the planes? And you're footing the reservations bill? You tend to know the cost and value of everything in your operation. And these guys don't know Jack! Fee per Departure and someone else owning your airplanes? That's not an airline. That;s another version of Yelloe Cab Company.


This post is barely intelligible.
Did you work for XJT? Do you have some insight?? You stated that you worked for a branded regional. How was this like XJT?
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: ExpressJet/ASA Final Day

Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:26 pm

ERAUMBA wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
How ironic that the last flight was MEM-IAH when my first fight every in CO was on a COEX ATR MEM-IAH in 1998 or 1999.


So, you flew this airline twenty-plus years ago and their demise is “ironic” to you?

How “ironic” someone on a.net would write such a narcissistic and uncaring post. You have *nothing* to do with this airline, the employees or the wind-down of operations. How exactly do you find irony in this series of unfortunate events?

How sad for those airline professionals out of work today.

Who are you to make a scolding post? Expressjet played a significant part in where I am in life. Did I ever work for them? No. Did my family? Yes. Do I have friends that worked and still work for them? Yes. Did I spend a lot of time in their flight training center in Houston flying their simulators? Yes. I can go on for days pal. This airline was as nostalgic for me as I'm sure it was for you and you have no right to even say what you said to me without knowing what made me who I am today.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
drdisque
Posts: 1345
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Re: ExpressJet/ASA Final Day

Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:47 pm

My first Expressjet flight was 9/30/10 XNA-ORD on an aircraft still in XJet house colors (N16559). Sirius XM controls identical to the AirTran ones were still in the seats but nonfunctional. This frame flew until the last day of ops flying GPT-IAH Wednesday morning.
My last Expressjet flight was 9/24/12 SAV-ORD (N13989 - this aircraft was essentially parked in March only flying a few flights in August and was flown to storage in Kingman on Sept 23).

My only ASA flight was 9/21/12 ORD-SAV on N832AS which was very tired looking at the time. It was broken up at GYY in 2015.

Being primarily DTW and ORD based most of my life, I rarely flew either of these carriers. I went to college in Atlanta but mostly flew AirTran, so never flew ASA as DL Connection.
 
evank516
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Re: ExpressJet/ASA Final Day

Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:07 pm

Ahh, ASA, my first ever RJ flight back in 1999. I still remember calling the Delta Flight info number: “Delta Connection flight 4535, operated by Atlantic Southeast Airlines, using their equipment, took off from Daytona Beach at [time]”
 
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Rajahdhani
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Re: ExpressJet/ASA Final Day

Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:40 pm

dstblj52 wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
To make sure I didn't botch the facts, I texted my best friend/former college roommate about this. He served three tours at XJT, but has fortunately moved onto much greener pastures. Below, I've more or less copied what he texted me, with his permission of course. It's pretty lengthy, but it's a pretty good picture of the slow demise of the carrier going back roughly 15 years.

Just want to add a couple of details the ground handling decision was UA, not SkyWest and it was a smisek decision to cut costs, and the reasoning for giving the Ejets to mesa was that Mesa was willing to take them along with the financing obligation along with transtates collapse and UA needing to find an e145 operator for those jets quickly.


Wow! Just wowed here. A humble thank you for you guys dissecting it with expertise. Thank you so much again! I have a lot of research to do!
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: ExpressJet/ASA Final Day

Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:51 pm

Rajahdhani wrote:
dstblj52 wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
To make sure I didn't botch the facts, I texted my best friend/former college roommate about this. He served three tours at XJT, but has fortunately moved onto much greener pastures. Below, I've more or less copied what he texted me, with his permission of course. It's pretty lengthy, but it's a pretty good picture of the slow demise of the carrier going back roughly 15 years.

Just want to add a couple of details the ground handling decision was UA, not SkyWest and it was a smisek decision to cut costs, and the reasoning for giving the Ejets to mesa was that Mesa was willing to take them along with the financing obligation along with transtates collapse and UA needing to find an e145 operator for those jets quickly.


Wow! Just wowed here. A humble thank you for you guys dissecting it with expertise. Thank you so much again! I have a lot of research to do!

No problem! I'm sure there are some incomplete or maybe inaccurate things in there, especially since he wasn't around for some of what was described, but it gives a pretty good gist of the slow demise of XJT. Unfortunately the regional airline business is fraught with shady maneuvers and underhanded crap, so while it's sad to see XJT go, it's just one chapter in an increasingly long book.
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: ExpressJet/ASA Final Day

Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:37 pm

Can we derive from here that:

•the Continental ExpressJet bet upon the
Embraer Jungle Jet was wiser than
•the Delta Comair bet upon the
BombardierCRJ Cramp Jet?

But thus yet, no P2P model was ever able to exist long term with either type.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
strfyr51
Posts: 5027
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: ExpressJet/ASA Final Day

Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:35 am

UA748i wrote:
And so goes another piece of the CO legacy. Met many Expressjet crews, and all loved their job regardless.

Sad that airlines like Expressjet and Compass didn't survive the plague, while airlines like Commutair and Mesa do.


why and how did it get to be part of the CO Legacy? Was Express jet CO? Or was it Owned BY CO? If they were owned By CO prior to the Merger with UA? Then I KNOW why they were cut loose!! UAL had a pretty close relationship with their Express Carriers prior to the Air Wisconsin "Backstab". Once that and the Atlantic Coast debacle? happened? Then UAL got pretty cutthroat with the UAX carriers and it became what can you or what have you done for me lately? I don't think there are many relationships that exist anymore like Alaska and Horizon Airlines. They are true partners. The Rest of them? Employer and Employees. And Employees sometimes? Get cut loose! Which is why I disagree with Branded flying as I came from a time when the regionals were fully operating airlines in every respect. They were "hubbed" at the Major's hub but that was all. Airlines like Air Wisconsin, Mississippi Valley Airlines, Rocky Mountain Airlines, Aspen airways Rio Airways Golden Gate Airlines and Golden West Airlines and there were many more. Some went out of business but they went out on their own. they owned their own airplanes and flew their OWN COLORS...
 
strfyr51
Posts: 5027
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: ExpressJet/ASA Final Day

Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:31 am

ERAUMBA wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
This is a sad day for sure. I worked at one of the few carriers to refused to fly under a major's colors and I believe had not the boss not been "dipping his pen"? the Company might still be in /Business today. I believe it was always a mistake for any regional to fly under anything But their own colors. Because you lose sight of the bigger picture and you get a false sense of confidence , When you're buying the planes? And you're footing the reservations bill? You tend to know the cost and value of everything in your operation. And these guys don't know Jack! Fee per Departure and someone else owning your airplanes? That's not an airline. That;s another version of Yelloe Cab Company.


This post is barely intelligible.
Did you work for XJT? Do you have some insight?? You stated that you worked for a branded regional. How was this like XJT?


WELL ? I was At United when all of this mess went down and I followed he regional Airlines pretty closely, At one time? There was even a move afoot to offer them assistance in as much as UNITED (UAL Inc) owned many of the airplanes? they didn't operate them and Assistance to One? Would have overwhelmed our OWN maintenance as the operating fleet would have went from 622 to well over 1100 airplanes and United had no intention of negotiating prices for airplanes they Owned but didn't operate. Aside from the fact that ALPA would have seen this as a "mouse in the Trap" and demand that UA ALPA pilots and AFA Flight attendants operate any airplane maintained in United's maintenance Certificate. UAX has an operations rep in the WHQ but no UAX personnel there, ALPA might have loved it were they there I later found out, I guess it's a pretty fine line United walks keeping the UA and UAX operation apart. Some of which I only found out after I retired. But Yeah. I know quite BIT MORE than Maybe i would have otherwise but some of this? i personally suggested after witnessing Irregular ops from WHQ, and at the time? It seemed like a good Idea until I was told the ramifications of what seemed like a darn good Idea. I do not doubt that at some point UAX ops will be folded into United as will Delta and AMR, But it won't be anytime soon unless there's something where lot of people get killed first!! though?? the First major that does it? will probably have their choice of the best regional pilots in the USA,, and Possibly?? the World.
 
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RyanairGuru
Posts: 8415
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Re: ExpressJet/ASA Final Day

Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:00 am

strfyr51 wrote:
UA748i wrote:
And so goes another piece of the CO legacy. Met many Expressjet crews, and all loved their job regardless.

Sad that airlines like Expressjet and Compass didn't survive the plague, while airlines like Commutair and Mesa do.


why and how did it get to be part of the CO Legacy? Was Express jet CO?


ExpressJet was at one time wholly owned by Continental, called Continental Express. Continental purchased a lot of their regional partners during the 1990s, including Business Express, Bar Harbor Airways and several others, which they merged into one airline.

When Continental Express added the ERJ in the 1990s they advertised the new planes as "ExpressJet" as a cutesy marketing term. When Continental spun off Continental Express through an IPO in 2003, the new business adopted the ExpressJet name, presumably because Continental didn't want their name associated with an independent airline. By that point Continental Express was a wholly ERJ operator, so the name made sense.

Note that even after ExpressJet was sold, all other Continental regional partners were branded as Continental Connection rather than Continental Express right up until the merger.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
dstblj52
Posts: 498
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:38 pm

Re: ExpressJet/ASA Final Day

Sat Oct 03, 2020 4:13 am

ERAUMBA wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
This is a sad day for sure. I worked at one of the few carriers to refused to fly under a major's colors and I believe had not the boss not been "dipping his pen"? the Company might still be in /Business today. I believe it was always a mistake for any regional to fly under anything But their own colors. Because you lose sight of the bigger picture and you get a false sense of confidence , When you're buying the planes? And you're footing the reservations bill? You tend to know the cost and value of everything in your operation. And these guys don't know Jack! Fee per Departure and someone else owning your airplanes? That's not an airline. That;s another version of Yelloe Cab Company.


This post is barely intelligible.
Did you work for XJT? Do you have some insight?? You stated that you worked for a branded regional. How was this like XJT?

It makes sense what he is saying is that the regionals working FFD where they get paid per flight completed usually with bonuses for on-time performance and the major partner owning the aircraft puts the regional in a very vulnerable position and makes it incredibly easy for them to get shut down
 
dstblj52
Posts: 498
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:38 pm

Re: ExpressJet/ASA Final Day

Sat Oct 03, 2020 4:17 am

KlimaBXsst wrote:
Can we derive from here that:

•the Continental ExpressJet bet upon the
Embraer Jungle Jet was wiser than
•the Delta Comair bet upon the
BombardierCRJ Cramp Jet?

But thus yet, no P2P model was ever able to exist long term with either type.

No, not really what we can derive is that striking on the regional level is a singularly ineffective move as the flying will simply be moved to lower-cost providers and that the model has been set up to prevent labor from deriving any leverage
 
deltairlines
Posts: 7096
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 4:47 am

Re: ExpressJet/ASA Final Day

Sat Oct 03, 2020 4:39 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
UA748i wrote:
And so goes another piece of the CO legacy. Met many Expressjet crews, and all loved their job regardless.

Sad that airlines like Expressjet and Compass didn't survive the plague, while airlines like Commutair and Mesa do.


why and how did it get to be part of the CO Legacy? Was Express jet CO?


ExpressJet was at one time wholly owned by Continental, called Continental Express. Continental purchased a lot of their regional partners during the 1990s, including Business Express, Bar Harbor Airways and several others, which they merged into one airline.


I don't recall Business Express ever doing business with Continental. In the late 1990s, they codeshared with Delta, American and Northwest - at Boston in the mid-1990s they ran out of Terminal C (where Delta was) and then moved over to Terminal B (in the area where the UA gates are now) - they were folded into American Eagle around 2000. That moves was part of the reason Delta ended up contracting with ACA to operate FRJ-328s out of BOS (and LGA) on many of the former Business Express routes out of BOS - they flew them to BTV, BGR, PWM, YUL, PHL, ISP and more.

In the mid-2000s, Continental had a relationship with Commutair - they had a decent regional hub in ALB that flew under the CO flag using Beech 1900s.

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