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Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:50 pm

Welcome to Indian Aviation Thread Q4 2020. Please continue your discussion and to add your comments here.

Link to previous thread:

Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:15 pm

Continuing from previous thread.

Tit-for-tat. Germany withdrew AI Frankfurt rights until October 14.

These Air Bubble Agreements are blatant violation of existing ASAs. India is not only limiting the flights, but also not allowing foreign carriers to carry all sixth freedom traffic. Some weird stuff going on.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/bus ... TOIDesktop
All posts are just opinions.
 
sabby
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:18 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
Continuing from previous thread.

Tit-for-tat. Germany withdrew AI Frankfurt rights until October 14.

These Air Bubble Agreements are blatant violation of existing ASAs. India is not only limiting the flights, but also not allowing foreign carriers to carry all sixth freedom traffic. Some weird stuff going on.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/bus ... TOIDesktop


Absolutely agree. The Govt / DGCA saw this as a quick cash cow monopoly opportunity to take advantage of the passengers who need to fly. There is no reason to limit frequency (from different airports) when there are already restrictions and procedure defined to make the airports safe. I'd understand if the airports were getting too much passengers to ensure proper safety but crying why passengers are choosing LH or other operators instead of paying premium for AI is just plain rubbish.
 
pune
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:20 pm

sabby wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Continuing from previous thread.

Tit-for-tat. Germany withdrew AI Frankfurt rights until October 14.

These Air Bubble Agreements are blatant violation of existing ASAs. India is not only limiting the flights, but also not allowing foreign carriers to carry all sixth freedom traffic. Some weird stuff going on.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/bus ... TOIDesktop


Absolutely agree. The Govt / DGCA saw this as a quick cash cow monopoly opportunity to take advantage of the passengers who need to fly. There is no reason to limit frequency (from different airports) when there are already restrictions and procedure defined to make the airports safe. I'd understand if the airports were getting too much passengers to ensure proper safety but crying why passengers are choosing LH or other operators instead of paying premium for AI is just plain rubbish.


The regulator making market picks for the market itself is cringe-worthy. The regulator is supposed to just that people are treated fairly. But in today's day and time seems 'fairness', 'equality' etc. are obsolete words. Just last month we were discussing the same. Seeing this the same question arises, even if there was a potential airliner thinking of coming and expanding into India, such moves will definitely keep them away. Seems we are hell-bent on being isolationist sadly :(
 
sand26391
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:14 pm

United Airlines flight timings for SFO-BLR and ORD-DEL is out. While the DEL-ORD flight begins from DEC 10th, the SFO-BLR flight begins from MAY 6th and arrives at BLR on 8th May 2021. Bookings open 3rd October on UA website.

Image
 
DTWLAX
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Sat Oct 03, 2020 4:29 pm

The Govt. of India thought they could make some quick money for AI. Thought they could have it the way they want it only for other countries to call their bluff.
First by the US DOT for flying commercial flights under the excuse of repatriation and now this by LH.
 
RainerBoeing777
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Sat Oct 03, 2020 5:01 pm

Why does the Indian government have to hurt Lufthansa? British and Middle Eastern airlines have MUCH MORE CAPACITY than Indian airlines, this seems totally absurd, I hope LH can get back to normal to India
CX - JL - LH - KE - KL - SQ - QR - QF - TG - UA
 
mandargb
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Sat Oct 03, 2020 5:53 pm

UA doing US-India with 789 ?
 
DTWLAX
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:24 am

mandargb wrote:
UA doing US-India with 789 ?

SFO-DEL
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:45 pm

SpiceJet to start non-stop flights to London from December 4

SpiceJet will operate thrice-a-week to London from December 4. This will include twice-a-week flights from Delhi and once-a-week from Mumbai.
SpiceJet will use an Airbus A330-900 Neo aircraft for these flights. The 371-seater twin-aisle A330 has a configuration of 353 economy and 18 business class seats. The aircraft is wetleased by the airline. The low-cost airline will offer business and economy class seats on these flights.

https://www.thehindu.com/business/Indus ... 773103.ece
 
avier
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:43 pm

trinidadeG wrote:
SpiceJet to start non-stop flights to London from December 4

Wow! Time will tell whether this was a smart move or not i.e to jump into the int'l long-haul bandwagon.

Based on aircraft type & config, it seems like an HiFly aircraft yet again, the one they used for repatriation flights too. HiFly has just 1 A339neo, so dispatch reliability be something to watch for.

Seems like SG is fostering a close bond with HiFly for their WB ops ambition.
 
hohd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:28 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Continuing from previous thread.

Tit-for-tat. Germany withdrew AI Frankfurt rights until October 14.

These Air Bubble Agreements are blatant violation of existing ASAs. India is not only limiting the flights, but also not allowing foreign carriers to carry all sixth freedom traffic. Some weird stuff going on.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/bus ... TOIDesktop


This situation is temporary, once India allows international flights like it did pre-COVID, then all these issues will be sorted out. Until then the air bubble is only temporary pathway to reach India or for Indians to travel to Germany.

Weird stuff may be going on, but Covid 19 restrictions are not normal. Until then allowing LH to only carry passengers beyond EU is not possible. EU is not allowing Indians to visit even with quarantine, why should India allow unrestricted travel at this time. With US/UK it is different, Indians can visit with a quarantine in UK and no quarantine in US.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:03 am

AirAsia Is Said to Cease Funding Indian Venture as Cash Dwindles


https://finance.yahoo.com/news/airasia- ... 35454.html

AirAsia India has survived on 3 billion rupees ($41 million) in funding from Tata, which owns a 51% stake, with another round of financing expected soon, one of the people said.

Tata is weighing its options and how much it would cost to buy out AirAsia and save the carrier, another person said
 
sabby
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:16 am

hohd wrote:
EU is not allowing Indians to visit even with quarantine, why should India allow unrestricted travel at this time. With US/UK it is different, Indians can visit with a quarantine in UK and no quarantine in US.


No body is asking India to allow unrestricted travel. European countries have a list of exempt travelers who are allowed to EU, they are not choosing which airlines are allowed. India is being picky to choose Airlines and frequencies instead of defining who are allowed or not. Air Bubble or whatever DGCA are trying to do has nothing to do with quarantine or travel restriction, it is all about creating monopoly market for AI to make some money in the current time. Also, Indians can travel to most European countries if they have a long term visa. It is only short term visitors that are not allowed.
 
rvnagesh50
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:10 am

SFO-DEL and SFO-BLR by United will take care of Premium passengers who were using Lufthansa's Silicon Valley-India express.May be they will guarantee seats by tech firms who fly that route, like Between SFO and shanghai.
 
hohd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:09 pm

sabby wrote:
hohd wrote:
EU is not allowing Indians to visit even with quarantine, why should India allow unrestricted travel at this time. With US/UK it is different, Indians can visit with a quarantine in UK and no quarantine in US.


No body is asking India to allow unrestricted travel. European countries have a list of exempt travelers who are allowed to EU, they are not choosing which airlines are allowed. India is being picky to choose Airlines and frequencies instead of defining who are allowed or not. Air Bubble or whatever DGCA are trying to do has nothing to do with quarantine or travel restriction, it is all about creating monopoly market for AI to make some money in the current time. Also, Indians can travel to most European countries if they have a long term visa. It is only short term visitors that are not allowed.


India has not restricted any carrier from EU, only that they cannot take connecting passengers beyond EU under the current air bubble system. Long term visa holders from India can use LH or other EU carriers to reach EU countries and like wise EU nationals and residents who have to travel to India can use the same carriers.

During this Air Bubble, India is not allowing Middle East carriers from taking connecting passengers either, why should EU carriers be any different. Once the air bubble arrangement is finished, all the carriers should be allowed, including connecting passengers, like it was pre-Covid.
 
pune
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:14 pm

Just binged on https://www.netflix.com/in/title/80990073 which had Kingfisher Airlines. One thing which stuck me is that none of the airlines which were started in 2005-6 apart from Indigo and to some extent Go Air most of them have folded up. Sadly, the docu-drama didn't explore into more detail the change from economy to luxury which perhaps led to the downfall of the company. There is also a bit of talk with Alex Wilcox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Wilcox who had the right vision and think he quit right on time . Hopefully in couple of decades, we would have 24x7 airports and they are like singapore or other airports which are in themselves a destination in itself.
 
airboss787
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 5:26 pm

pune wrote:
Just binged on https://www.netflix.com/in/title/80990073 which had Kingfisher Airlines. One thing which stuck me is that none of the airlines which were started in 2005-6 apart from Indigo and to some extent Go Air most of them have folded up.


To be honest, the only promising airline started in 2005-6 that failed was Kingfisher. The other comparatively big failure was Paramount. But Spicejet, GoAir and IndiGo survived. So, it isn't all doom.
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pune
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Sat Oct 10, 2020 9:33 am

airboss787 wrote:
pune wrote:
Just binged on https://www.netflix.com/in/title/80990073 which had Kingfisher Airlines. One thing which stuck me is that none of the airlines which were started in 2005-6 apart from Indigo and to some extent Go Air most of them have folded up.


To be honest, the only promising airline started in 2005-6 that failed was Kingfisher. The other comparatively big failure was Paramount. But Spicejet, GoAir and IndiGo survived. So, it isn't all doom.


You are forgetting Deccan Airways which people had high hopes from which KF bought but couldn't do anything with it. Then there was Jet Airways which was also good. Even Go Air is running into huge losses. The only one which seems to be by far is Indigo, they have the numbers and they are doing good economics, hopefully DGCA does bring some positive policies rather than just extractive policies which help the industry stabilize in the short and medium term. Even boeing has predicted at least 4 years to get civil aviation to get to 2019 levels and till end of the decade no rosy picture.

http://www.chronline.com/northwest_regi ... b9ad5.html

This would delay if not totally inhibit any new financial planning/closure for new airports, at least in India :(
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:14 pm

pune wrote:
hopefully DGCA does bring some positive policies rather than just extractive policies which help the industry stabilize in the short and medium term. Even boeing has predicted at least 4 years to get civil aviation to get to 2019 levels and till end of the decade no rosy picture.


If you haven't observed current government is working very hard to stabilize Indian aviation market. I5 will close down soon, let SG takeover AI's assets, cut down 6E to size and let UK be a dummy. Dream come true.
All posts are just opinions.
 
pune
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Sat Oct 10, 2020 1:18 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
pune wrote:
hopefully DGCA does bring some positive policies rather than just extractive policies which help the industry stabilize in the short and medium term. Even boeing has predicted at least 4 years to get civil aviation to get to 2019 levels and till end of the decade no rosy picture.


If you haven't observed current government is working very hard to stabilize Indian aviation market. I5 will close down soon, let SG takeover AI's assets, cut down 6E to size and let UK be a dummy. Dream come true.


Of course, less competition is the deal, dunno if you were being sarcastic but yeah seems it will happen or at least they would like that.
 
killswitch13
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:08 am

No foreign flights at cost of Indian carriers: Puri
https://www.thehindu.com/business/Industry/no-foreign-flights-at-cost-of-indian-carriers-puri/article32807099.ece
The aviation minister has been a total disaster. Pre covid there were flights started to random destinations from his own constituency. Now this new BS. End the consumer is going to face the brunt based on the prices charged by AI under the VBM mission
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:00 pm

Earlier this year Tony Fernandes called Japan and India "peripheral markets" for his AirAsia brand. Now that Japan has downed shutters, it seems like even I5 is headed that way. According to this article, the recent developments at AirAsia India are an ominous reminder of AirAsia Japan 1.0!

If AirAsia is to exit India, does it rely on template of AirAsia Japan 1.0?

The AirAsia group recently shut its Japanese unit. This was the airlines second attempt in Japan, having seen an equally hasty exit the first time around. While the current entity in Japan went belly up, the erstwhile one saw AirAsia group exit from its Joint Venture with ANA – one of the largest airlines in Japan. Will that act as a template for negotiations between TATA and AirAsia?

https://networkthoughts.com/2020/10/13/ ... japan-1-0/
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:08 pm

Air Asia India being forced to close down for political reasons, pure and simple, and this is Civil Aviation forum can't discuss politics.

Can TATAs pickup? Depends on how much slush fund TCS has.
All posts are just opinions.
 
avier
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:07 pm

trinidadeG wrote:
The AirAsia group recently shut its Japanese unit. This was the airlines second attempt in Japan, having seen an equally hasty exit the first time around. While the current entity in Japan went belly up, the erstwhile one saw AirAsia group exit from its Joint Venture with ANA – one of the largest airlines in Japan. Will that act as a template for negotiations between TATA and AirAsia?

https://networkthoughts.com/2020/10/13/ ... japan-1-0/

TATA's both airlines have been a flop show since their inception. They haven't produced any real profits since they were founded about six years back.
https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/busin ... 74731.html

I5 was around to cycle dirty money and UK to add to TATA's grand & royal image- to complement their luxury hospitality business.

6E/SG/G8 can serve the country well, with a fourth one being a combo of TATA & GoI for having long haul ops and FSC, which can be funded eternally by tax payers and TATA group companies.
 
airboss787
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:34 pm

AirAsia India are expected to take 5 new 320neos this year. I don't think they are going to liquidate. They may be sold or bought out by Tata. But there would be no reason to get 5 new aircraft if you're just going to fold even if the aircraft eventually go the parent company.
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unnayan
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:00 am

airboss787 wrote:
AirAsia India are expected to take 5 new 320neos this year. I don't think they are going to liquidate. They may be sold or bought out by Tata. But there would be no reason to get 5 new aircraft if you're just going to fold even if the aircraft eventually go the parent company.


But these 5 neos are from Air Asia parent order. I5 doesn't have any independent order of its own. Air Asia can pull them off anytime... They don't have to even paint it separately... Only flag and registration change
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:34 am

unnayan wrote:
airboss787 wrote:
AirAsia India are expected to take 5 new 320neos this year. I don't think they are going to liquidate. They may be sold or bought out by Tata. But there would be no reason to get 5 new aircraft if you're just going to fold even if the aircraft eventually go the parent company.


But these 5 neos are from Air Asia parent order. I5 doesn't have any independent order of its own. Air Asia can pull them off anytime... They don't have to even paint it separately... Only flag and registration change


Are you sure about these NEOs being sourced from AirAsia's parent order?

It is known that AirAsia's initial strategy was to sub-lease aircraft to its Indian JV. But AirAsia India have begun sourcing (cheaper) aircraft from the open market since 2017.
So these 5 NEOs could be from the open market too.

AirAsia India opts for leasing via tender route

But I agree with you. Since they are all leased anyway, the aircraft may be simply returned to/repossessed by lessors incase the TATAs decide to pull the plug and AirAsiaIndia gets grounded/liquidated.
 
airboss787
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:44 am

trinidadeG wrote:
unnayan wrote:
airboss787 wrote:
AirAsia India are expected to take 5 new 320neos this year. I don't think they are going to liquidate. They may be sold or bought out by Tata. But there would be no reason to get 5 new aircraft if you're just going to fold even if the aircraft eventually go the parent company.


But these 5 neos are from Air Asia parent order. I5 doesn't have any independent order of its own. Air Asia can pull them off anytime... They don't have to even paint it separately... Only flag and registration change


Are you sure about these NEOs being sourced from AirAsia's parent order?

It is known that AirAsia's initial strategy was to sub-lease aircraft to its Indian JV. But AirAsia India have begun sourcing (cheaper) aircraft from the open market since 2017.
So these 5 NEOs could be from the open market too.

AirAsia India opts for leasing via tender route

But I agree with you. Since they are all leased anyway, the aircraft may be simply returned to/repossessed by lessors incase the TATAs decide to pull the plug and AirAsiaIndia gets grounded/liquidated.


Sure, I agree with that. But why go through the trouble of spending money and expanding and even hiring for these additional aircraft if you’re just going to fold soon. I am not saying you are wrong, but I don’t get the unnecessary expense if you wish to not exist in a few months. Hence my opinion that they probably will get bought out if AirAsia can’t sustain them.
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trinidadeG
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:35 am

Those 5 planes were ordered around early 2019, long before COVID drove Tony Fernandes to hint that they might exit India. In fact, I5 had even reported a positive EBITDA in June quarter 2019. I'm sure the outlook was very positive back then, at-least from the TATA's side, when the order was placed. As of date, the airline CEO is still telling the press that it sees "sustained passenger growth". Staying positive, i guess :D

It's quite possible that nobody at I5 thought of folding up the airline back then. It probably stayed that way until Mr. Fernandes quipped about "peripheral markets" in June 2020. So, while the company maintains status quo as far as their future plans are concerned, the market is asking, what's in it for the TATAs to stay invested in I5 when we know that Tony Fernandes wants to back out??
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:31 pm

trinidadeG wrote:
Those 5 planes were ordered around early 2019, long before COVID drove Tony Fernandes to hint that they might exit India. In fact, I5 had even reported a positive EBITDA in June quarter 2019. I'm sure the outlook was very positive back then, at-least from the TATA's side, when the order was placed. As of date, the airline CEO is still telling the press that it sees "sustained passenger growth". Staying positive, i guess :D

It's quite possible that nobody at I5 thought of folding up the airline back then. It probably stayed that way until Mr. Fernandes quipped about "peripheral markets" in June 2020. So, while the company maintains status quo as far as their future plans are concerned, the market is asking, what's in it for the TATAs to stay invested in I5 when we know that Tony Fernandes wants to back out??


TATA and Air Asia are just working out their divorce. COVID finally forced that. Air Asia will be folded into Vistara (aka closed). I also feel that once COVID recovery starts, AI will be bought by Tatas. There is no need for Tatas to take it over during COVID as losses ramp up. In the end, they will get AI for the same price or less than pre COVID. So why take on more debt. The GOI is just going to have to write off more debt. SG getting AI for free will never happen and never should happen. That is not how disinvestment by governments should happen (even in india it is too much).
 
VTORD
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:25 pm


Looks like Dreamliner #3 is painted. Is it the first 4 that are not going to have crew rest areas? or 2?
 
airboss787
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:24 pm

VTORD wrote:

Looks like Dreamliner #3 is painted. Is it the first 4 that are not going to have crew rest areas? or 2?


I think its the first 6. The options (four) were going to be with crew rest and the original order for 6 were all for medium haul.
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hohd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:43 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
trinidadeG wrote:
Those 5 planes were ordered around early 2019, long before COVID drove Tony Fernandes to hint that they might exit India. In fact, I5 had even reported a positive EBITDA in June quarter 2019. I'm sure the outlook was very positive back then, at-least from the TATA's side, when the order was placed. As of date, the airline CEO is still telling the press that it sees "sustained passenger growth". Staying positive, i guess :D

It's quite possible that nobody at I5 thought of folding up the airline back then. It probably stayed that way until Mr. Fernandes quipped about "peripheral markets" in June 2020. So, while the company maintains status quo as far as their future plans are concerned, the market is asking, what's in it for the TATAs to stay invested in I5 when we know that Tony Fernandes wants to back out??


TATA and Air Asia are just working out their divorce. COVID finally forced that. Air Asia will be folded into Vistara (aka closed). I also feel that once COVID recovery starts, AI will be bought by Tatas. There is no need for Tatas to take it over during COVID as losses ramp up. In the end, they will get AI for the same price or less than pre COVID. So why take on more debt. The GOI is just going to have to write off more debt. SG getting AI for free will never happen and never should happen. That is not how disinvestment by governments should happen (even in india it is too much).


I am beginning to doubt if Tatar will acquire AI, they have their hands full with Vistara and Air AsiaIndia. First they need to fold or merge or acquire the remaining portion of Air Asia India. The airline market now is not like old times, it is highly competitive, with Indigo and SpiceJet with GoAir and other regionals TruJet still hanging on also, fiercely competing in the domestic and nearby countries sector, life will be difficult for Tatas too.

And then we have a fly by night startup operators about every year or so with grandiose dreams of starting an airline in India and flying all over the world, currently it is FlyBig, who will ruin the economics for everyone with predatory pricing, only to fold in a year or two.
 
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CPS001
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:44 pm

hohd wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
trinidadeG wrote:
Those 5 planes were ordered around early 2019, long before COVID drove Tony Fernandes to hint that they might exit India. In fact, I5 had even reported a positive EBITDA in June quarter 2019. I'm sure the outlook was very positive back then, at-least from the TATA's side, when the order was placed. As of date, the airline CEO is still telling the press that it sees "sustained passenger growth". Staying positive, i guess :D

It's quite possible that nobody at I5 thought of folding up the airline back then. It probably stayed that way until Mr. Fernandes quipped about "peripheral markets" in June 2020. So, while the company maintains status quo as far as their future plans are concerned, the market is asking, what's in it for the TATAs to stay invested in I5 when we know that Tony Fernandes wants to back out??


TATA and Air Asia are just working out their divorce. COVID finally forced that. Air Asia will be folded into Vistara (aka closed). I also feel that once COVID recovery starts, AI will be bought by Tatas. There is no need for Tatas to take it over during COVID as losses ramp up. In the end, they will get AI for the same price or less than pre COVID. So why take on more debt. The GOI is just going to have to write off more debt. SG getting AI for free will never happen and never should happen. That is not how disinvestment by governments should happen (even in india it is too much).


I am beginning to doubt if Tatar will acquire AI, they have their hands full with Vistara and Air AsiaIndia. First they need to fold or merge or acquire the remaining portion of Air Asia India. The airline market now is not like old times, it is highly competitive, with Indigo and SpiceJet with GoAir and other regionals TruJet still hanging on also, fiercely competing in the domestic and nearby countries sector, life will be difficult for Tatas too.

And then we have a fly by night startup operators about every year or so with grandiose dreams of starting an airline in India and flying all over the world, currently it is FlyBig, who will ruin the economics for everyone with predatory pricing, only to fold in a year or two.


In the present circumstances all the competition is only on paper. SpiceJet and GoAir are on cash and carry. TruJet was reportedly near bankruptcy. Flybig is starting with a couple of ATRs on UDAN routes so no real competition to the others. So IndiGo really is the only airline positioned to expand profitably once the industry stabilizes. I guess Tata will take a look at AI only after AirAsia is dealt with and if GoI will sweeten the AI deal in any way. If they struggle to integrate AirAsia India with Vistara they will probably not buy AI.
 
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AirIndia
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:41 am

CPS001 wrote:
If they struggle to integrate AirAsia India with Vistara they will probably not buy AI.

What kind of struggle could they face in terms of integration? Am sure the AirAsia India brand will be killed lest they want to pay royalty to Tony for using the AirAsia name.... the fleet is common with Vistara which is helpful.
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:36 pm

Vistara will increase its Delhi-London flights (currently four-weekly) to five weekly from November 21 and will go daily on the route from December 1. The flights are part of the bilateral air bubble arrangement formed between India and the UK.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 682376.cms?
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:40 pm

Virgin Atlantic launches flights from Delhi and Mumbai to Manchester

Virgin Atlantic has announced that it will be launching services from Delhi and Mumbai to Manchester.
The airline will fly three times a week from Mumbai to Manchester beginning in December and twice weekly from Delhi starting in January. Bookings open on 20th October. Routes will be operated on the 787.

https://travel.economictimes.indiatimes ... r/78682177
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:04 pm

Should this be seen as a sign that Vistara is ceding space to AirAsia India in the domestic market? Many Tier II city routes could be covered by whatever AirAsia India morphs into (if the airline doesn't shut down, that is) while Vistara focuses on Tier-I and International routes.??

Vistara plans to spread its wings beyond India skies.

“In the domestic space with 80 per cent of the market controlled by low-cost carriers, full-service carriers like us have a limited scope to prove our value. However, we can get the premium we are looking for in the international skies. In the next three years 30-40 per cent of ASKs, because of wide-bodied aircraft, will be deployed in the international market,” said Vinod Kannan, chief commercial officer of Vistara.

Vistara’s international plans could also extend to Singapore, Eastern Europe, Japan, Germany and even Australia - destinations to which it currently does not have the planes for direct flights.

https://www.rediff.com/business/report/ ... 201016.htm
 
VTORD
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:21 pm

airboss787 wrote:

I think its the first 6. The options (four) were going to be with crew rest and the original order for 6 were all for medium haul.

Thanks! I am not sure that is such a smart plan though. If you evaluate that with this sentence from the quoted article in @trinidadeG's post:

trinidadeG wrote:
Vistara’s international plans could also extend to Singapore, Eastern Europe, Japan, Germany and even Australia - destinations to which it currently does not have the planes for direct flights.

The operative word being "could", I don't think UK actually has a coherent strategy for international. Makes it appear like darts at a board TBH. Ofcourse it is entirely possible that this particular sentence is the handiwork of an "aviation journalist" at Rediff.
 
hohd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:35 pm

killswitch13 wrote:
No foreign flights at cost of Indian carriers: Puri
https://www.thehindu.com/business/Industry/no-foreign-flights-at-cost-of-indian-carriers-puri/article32807099.ece
The aviation minister has been a total disaster. Pre covid there were flights started to random destinations from his own constituency. Now this new BS. End the consumer is going to face the brunt based on the prices charged by AI under the VBM mission


https://www.deccanherald.com/national/i ... 05385.html

It appears that the dispute with Germany has been resolved. India will allow 10 flights for LH and AI will fly 7 under the Air Bubble arrangement. The missing point is India allowing LH to sell connection passengers especially to US and Canada?

Of course all this is temporary. When India allows all international traffic, now currently rumored to be early next year, then the flight schedules could return to pre-COVID times.
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:23 am

Looks like IndiGo is the latest to take advantage of the India-UK 'air bubble'.


IndiGo takes fresh stab at London Heathrow, but faces poor overseas record and more competition

IndiGo, India’s largest airline by fleet and domestic market share, has secured slots at London Heathrow. The airline intends to operate daily services to London Heathrow from Mumbai and New Delhi effective mid-January, going by the details released by ACL, the slot co-ordinator of London Heathrow


https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/busin ... 21271.html
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:45 am

trinidadeG wrote:
Looks like IndiGo is the latest to take advantage of the India-UK 'air bubble'.


IndiGo takes fresh stab at London Heathrow, but faces poor overseas record and more competition

IndiGo, India’s largest airline by fleet and domestic market share, has secured slots at London Heathrow. The airline intends to operate daily services to London Heathrow from Mumbai and New Delhi effective mid-January, going by the details released by ACL, the slot co-ordinator of London Heathrow


https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/busin ... 21271.html


Does none know the terms of these slot a grants to indian airlines. Are they temporarily, for one season, permanent? I guess at some point these airports will need to readjust slots to where people are flying.
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:36 pm

According to this article, airlines have pulled completely out of several airports in W20. The Indian Government had asked Airlines to cap their capacity at 60% of the total filed schedule, and the airlines chose to shut smaller stations rather than incur the cost of operating skeletal services to them. I guess some decisions like pulling out of Religious-tourism-driven Shirdi Airport was a no-brainer, though. The Temples in Shirdi have been closed because of the pandemic and the traffic had practically dried up.

https://networkthoughts.com/2020/10/27/ ... -schedule/
 
pune
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:46 am

One more point to Captain Mohan Ranganathan -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2Bjg6cxSSQ

While he covered the basics which probably most of us know, still was good :)
 
Antarius
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:50 am

VTORD wrote:
The operative word being "could", I don't think UK actually has a coherent strategy for international. Makes it appear like darts at a board TBH. Ofcourse it is entirely possible that this particular sentence is the handiwork of an "aviation journalist" at Rediff.


I'm still not convinced that UK has a strategy at all. I understand they're backed by some serious airline pedigree, but UK reminds me a lot of MH. Punching above their weight as KUL isn't SIN.

UK reminds me more of 9W than the more successful airlines in India.
Militant Centrist
Let's all just use some common sense
 
Antarius
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:52 am

trinidadeG wrote:
Looks like IndiGo is the latest to take advantage of the India-UK 'air bubble'.


IndiGo takes fresh stab at London Heathrow, but faces poor overseas record and more competition

IndiGo, India’s largest airline by fleet and domestic market share, has secured slots at London Heathrow. The airline intends to operate daily services to London Heathrow from Mumbai and New Delhi effective mid-January, going by the details released by ACL, the slot co-ordinator of London Heathrow


https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/busin ... 21271.html


The headline says "poor overseas record", but the article doesn't elaborate on it at all. Why does 6E have a poor record? And how - not on time, poor reviews for onboard product etc etc?

Only flown 6E domestically when in the country, so cannot comment on their intl operations.
Militant Centrist
Let's all just use some common sense
 
hohd
Posts: 1001
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 1:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:13 pm

Antarius wrote:

UK reminds me more of 9W than the more successful airlines in India.


The only successful airline in India is Indigo and may be Spice Jet to some extent. That is it. Not a single full service carrier has been successful in India so far. Vistara may be the first, and hope it succeeds but it needs lots of help.
 
sand26391
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:42 pm

There is a rumour that AA may PREPONE their Seattle-Bangalore Flight to around July 2021.
 
pune
Posts: 527
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:40 pm

hohd wrote:
Antarius wrote:

UK reminds me more of 9W than the more successful airlines in India.


The only successful airline in India is Indigo and may be Spice Jet to some extent. That is it. Not a single full service carrier has been successful in India so far. Vistara may be the first, and hope it succeeds but it needs lots of help.


I seriously doubt that UK/Vistara would be able to hold its own as civil aviation would take a long time to come back on its feet. Boeing itself estimates a decade or more for the civil aviation industry to come back on its feet.

https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2020-10-06 ... -Long-Term

And as shared GOI has always done flip-flops on civil aviation. Sadly, we don't have robust policies which help civil aviation whether it is pilot training or anything else altogether as shared by Captain Rangnathan. I was surprised that nobody commented on what was shared by him in that video.

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