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trinidadeG
Posts: 318
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:42 pm

hohd wrote:
Antarius wrote:

UK reminds me more of 9W than the more successful airlines in India.


The only successful airline in India is Indigo and may be Spice Jet to some extent. That is it. Not a single full service carrier has been successful in India so far. Vistara may be the first, and hope it succeeds but it needs lots of help.


IndiGo successfully posted a record loss in Q2.

The company's second-quarter net loss came in at 11.95 billion rupees ($161.61 million), compared with a loss of 10.66 billion rupees last year.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/indigo-p ... 40763.html

https://www.livemint.com/companies/news ... 73805.html
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:44 pm

hohd wrote:
Antarius wrote:

UK reminds me more of 9W than the more successful airlines in India.


The only successful airline in India is Indigo and may be Spice Jet to some extent. That is it. Not a single full service carrier has been successful in India so far. Vistara may be the first, and hope it succeeds but it needs lots of help.


IndiGo has successfully posted a record loss in Q2 of this year as well.

The company's second-quarter net loss came in at 11.95 billion rupees ($161.61 million), compared with a loss of 10.66 billion rupees last year.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/indigo-p ... 40763.html
 
pune
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:19 pm

I think most of the airlines and aviation would take quite sometime to recover. I do not know if much of Indigo staff would need to be cut back/cut off, maybe the planes could be leased back but even that may not be feasible as nobody is flying, all are in the same boat. The next year or two are crucial and I would say it is distinct possibility that spice jet may go down. After all just few months back, AAI had put it in cash and carry . See

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/busin ... 23741.html

Overall not a pretty picture :(
 
hohd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:46 pm

trinidadeG wrote:
hohd wrote:
Antarius wrote:

UK reminds me more of 9W than the more successful airlines in India.


The only successful airline in India is Indigo and may be Spice Jet to some extent. That is it. Not a single full service carrier has been successful in India so far. Vistara may be the first, and hope it succeeds but it needs lots of help.


IndiGo has successfully posted a record loss in Q2 of this year as well.

The company's second-quarter net loss came in at 11.95 billion rupees ($161.61 million), compared with a loss of 10.66 billion rupees last year.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/indigo-p ... 40763.html


Almost no airline in the world has posted a profit in Q2 or even Q1 of this year and I doubt if any airline will post a profit in Q3 or Q4 of this year. Indigo is no exception. In 2019, Indigo had an operational profit, and is probably the only airline in India, which we can call it a "success" so far.
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Thu Nov 05, 2020 8:33 am

hohd wrote:
Antarius wrote:

UK reminds me more of 9W than the more successful airlines in India.


The only successful airline in India is Indigo and may be Spice Jet to some extent. That is it. Not a single full service carrier has been successful in India so far. Vistara may be the first, and hope it succeeds but it needs lots of help.

hohd wrote:
trinidadeG wrote:

IndiGo has successfully posted a record loss in Q2 of this year as well.

The company's second-quarter net loss came in at 11.95 billion rupees ($161.61 million), compared with a loss of 10.66 billion rupees last year.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/indigo-p ... 40763.html


Almost no airline in the world has posted a profit in Q2 or even Q1 of this year and I doubt if any airline will post a profit in Q3 or Q4 of this year. Indigo is no exception. In 2019, Indigo had an operational profit, and is probably the only airline in India, which we can call it a "success" so far.


I'm happy that we're considering that external factors (like the current pandemic) do affect airlines' performance over short periods. The market is cyclic in nature- good and bad phases are inevitable.

But I'm not sure if its correct to state that no Indian FSC has been successful so far. I feel we are ignoring 8 decades of Indian Aviation history to only focus on the recent "IndiGo era".
Air India, in its eight decade history, has also has witnessed phases where it would have been called "successful" (particularly under the leadership of JRD Tata). The same goes for 9W - the only airline from the first crop of private carriers to grow to a 100+ fleet, and operate scheduled commercial services as far as Canada!

The LCC phenomena is a relatively new (and global one at that), one which FSCs have yet to figure how to deal with. I hope they will find a way to make themselves relevant to the value-seeking customer. Vistara has already hinted that it has drawn up a plan. Hopefully the new owners of Air India and Jet Airways will do so too.

“In the domestic space with 80 per cent of the market controlled by low-cost carriers, full-service carriers like us have a limited scope to prove our value. However, we can get the premium we are looking for in the international skies. In the next three years 30-40 per cent of ASKs, because of wide-bodied aircraft, will be deployed in the international market,” said Vinod Kannan, chief commercial officer of Vistara.

He said Vistara was not focussing on gaining a big market share in the domestic market — it would require many more aircraft that won’t be profitably deployed.

https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 008_1.html
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Thu Nov 05, 2020 2:07 pm

SpiceJet problems being reported in the media. :(
SpiceJet suspends "Indias First" seaplane services for 2 days citing maintenance work

I cant understand why the fiberal media is always criticizing Development! Atleast some one is trying to do something positive!
Mr.Kapoor's favorite poodle!
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:50 am

BawliBooch wrote:
SpiceJet problems being reported in the media. :(
SpiceJet suspends "Indias First" seaplane services for 2 days citing maintenance work

I cant understand why the fiberal media is always criticizing Development! Atleast some one is trying to do something positive!


Pardon me, but I don't see how this sticker-job (a poor one at that) 'wet-lease' of a 49 year old commuter-plane can be termed as 'development'.

The actual positive thing to do would be to review the country's archaic aviation laws to allow older commuter planes to be legally imported into the country, especially for UDAN work which is taxpayer money at the end of the day. We have thousands of low-hour, unemployed pilots, we have 400+ unused airfields with 1000m runways. The only thing standing in the way of a 'commuter-liner' eco-system in India is the DGCA rule that prohibits import of aircraft older than 20 years into the country for commercial work.

If Ajay Singh can be allowed to operate a 49 year old plane, why is everyone else forced to either operate younger planes or shut shop??

The seaplane is 49 years old. As part of the lease agreement, “one set of crew and engineers with back up” have come with the seaplane.

https://indianexpress.com/article/busin ... e-6949751/
 
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CPS001
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:27 am

trinidadeG wrote:
BawliBooch wrote:
SpiceJet problems being reported in the media. :(
SpiceJet suspends "Indias First" seaplane services for 2 days citing maintenance work

I cant understand why the fiberal media is always criticizing Development! Atleast some one is trying to do something positive!


Pardon me, but I don't see how this sticker-job (a poor one at that) 'wet-lease' of a 49 year old commuter-plane can be termed as 'development'.

I think they were being sarcastic there.

The actual positive thing to do would be to review the country's archaic aviation laws to allow older commuter planes to be legally imported into the country, especially for UDAN work which is taxpayer money at the end of the day. We have thousands of low-hour, unemployed pilots, we have 400+ unused airfields with 1000m runways. The only thing standing in the way of a 'commuter-liner' eco-system in India is the DGCA rule that prohibits import of aircraft older than 20 years into the country for commercial work.

If Ajay Singh can be allowed to operate a 49 year old plane, why is everyone else forced to either operate younger planes or shut shop??

The seaplane is 49 years old. As part of the lease agreement, “one set of crew and engineers with back up” have come with the seaplane.


https://indianexpress.com/article/busin ... e-6949751/


What I see is the government (unsuccessfully, so far) trying to get rid of Air India, while making SpiceJet the next "friend-of-the-state" airline. I won't be surprised to see more concessions/perks/exceptions for them similar to what AI, IX and 9I enjoy. All it takes is some loophole in those archaic laws.
 
avier
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:01 pm

Domestic airlines can now operate at 70% of their pre-Covid capacity
https://www.livemint.com/news/india/dom ... 88900.html

Fare caps are still in place till Feb '21
 
avier
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:03 pm

SpiceJet Q2 net loss narrows to Rs 112.6 cr
https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/ec ... 075908.ece
 
pune
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Thu Nov 12, 2020 11:05 am

Just saw Soorarai Pottru (a sort of in-between Captain Gopinath life and other true stories) , it does show a bit of politics and the nastiness but doesn't go far enough. But I guess it was too much of me to expect that they will show why we are stuck, similar to how somebody shared that 400+ airstrips are not being used in the country. And don't think it's the first time it has been reported. India is not scarce, she has been made to look scarce by our politicans, the powers that be.
 
hohd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:18 pm

There are 400+ air strips unused in India because most of the are not commercially viable. Some of them are too close to other major cities which have good air connections and some of them don't have enough yields to justify, UDAN or no UDAN. And DGCA mandating 20 years or newer aircraft is to improve safety and does not want India to be a dumping ground for old aircraft. There too many small operators, who could cut corners and when any aircraft is old, there is always more of a potential of an accident than a newer one. There are exceptions of course to the 20 year rule, which allowed Spice Jet to operate the seaplane and it should not have been allowed.
 
pune
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Fri Nov 13, 2020 4:55 am

This is actually more of a policy failure rather than anything else. If India wanted to, we could have had turboprops doing point-to-point drops. Hell, now in States they are looking at numerous options using electric aircraft and VTOL . Even with Turboprops like Q400 where you could sit 90 people at one go you would have people wanting to be part of it if the price is right and there is good frequency. It is all about economics, DGCA and if the govt. is really committed to the idea of civil aviation for the common man rather than just few big players.

https://www.axis-simulation.com/three-r ... -comeback/
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Fri Nov 13, 2020 5:18 am

If you look at the way UDAN 1.0 was drafted, it was aimed at genuinely reviving grass-root commercial aviation in the country using regional aircraft (20 seat aircraft) . Somewhere down the line, the scheme resulted in A320/B737 flying routes like Delhi-Kannur and Gorakhpur-Mumbai, (probably because it boosted the ASKMs on the scheme's annual report cards?)

Till date, the percentage of operational UDAN routes that are being executed by a sub 75 seater (below ATR72) is miniscule. And the scheme has already reached round 4.

I'll call it Policy failure. If the government was so concerned about safety, it should have researched the fact that the global regional aviation market is dominated by old turboprops and that a modification of their "20 year limit" would be required BEFORE offering routes for bidding.
 
anshabhi
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:46 am

trinidadeG wrote:
If you look at the way UDAN 1.0 was drafted, it was aimed at genuinely reviving grass-root commercial aviation in the country using regional aircraft (20 seat aircraft) . Somewhere down the line, the scheme resulted in A320/B737 flying routes like Delhi-Kannur and Gorakhpur-Mumbai, (probably because it boosted the ASKMs on the scheme's annual report cards?)

Till date, the percentage of operational UDAN routes that are being executed by a sub 75 seater (below ATR72) is miniscule. And the scheme has already reached round 4.

I'll call it Policy failure. If the government was so concerned about safety, it should have researched the fact that the global regional aviation market is dominated by old turboprops and that a modification of their "20 year limit" would be required BEFORE offering routes for bidding.


Why would the govt be interested in reviving regional aircraft? They just want the flights. B747 or ATR 42 is the airline's concern.
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:37 pm

anshabhi wrote:
trinidadeG wrote:
If you look at the way UDAN 1.0 was drafted, it was aimed at genuinely reviving grass-root commercial aviation in the country using regional aircraft (20 seat aircraft) . Somewhere down the line, the scheme resulted in A320/B737 flying routes like Delhi-Kannur and Gorakhpur-Mumbai, (probably because it boosted the ASKMs on the scheme's annual report cards?)

Till date, the percentage of operational UDAN routes that are being executed by a sub 75 seater (below ATR72) is miniscule. And the scheme has already reached round 4.

I'll call it Policy failure. If the government was so concerned about safety, it should have researched the fact that the global regional aviation market is dominated by old turboprops and that a modification of their "20 year limit" would be required BEFORE offering routes for bidding.


Why would the govt be interested in reviving regional aircraft? They just want the flights. B747 or ATR 42 is the airline's concern.

Because majority of the 400 airfields that they want to revive are suitable only for Category I aircraft. This category, as defined in the RCS document, is <=20 seats.
Even the ATR42 is too big an aircraft.

2.4.1 Aircraft Categories.
https://www.civilaviation.gov.in/sites/ ... RCS%29.pdf
Last edited by trinidadeG on Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:57 pm

Financial Times scathing article about recent airport privatization in India. Not sure what led FT to publish such piece. I guess this topic is no longer considered unsubstantiated claim.

When the Indian government approved the privatisation of six airports in 2018, it relaxed the rules to widen the pool of competition, allowing companies without any experience in the sector to bid. There was one clear winner from the rule change: Gautam Adani, the billionaire industrialist with no history of running airports, scooped up all six.

His clean sweep was met with outrage. The Kerala state finance minister said Mr Adani winning the 50-year lease to operate the Trivandrum International Airport was an “act of brazen cronyism” that showed how the central government favoured politically connected tycoons.


https://www.ft.com/content/474706d6-124 ... pe=nongift
All posts are just opinions.
 
anshabhi
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Sat Nov 14, 2020 3:54 am

Happy Diwali Guysss

trinidadeG wrote:

Because majority of the 400 airfields that they want to revive are suitable only for Category I aircraft. This category, as defined in the RCS document, is <=20 seats.
Even the ATR42 is too big an aircraft.

2.4.1 Aircraft Categories.
https://www.civilaviation.gov.in/sites/ ... RCS%29.pdf


The 19 seater Twin Otter 300 seaplanes that SG has launched can land on both water bodies and short airstrips.
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Sat Nov 14, 2020 4:08 am

anshabhi wrote:
Happy Diwali Guysss

trinidadeG wrote:

Because majority of the 400 airfields that they want to revive are suitable only for Category I aircraft. This category, as defined in the RCS document, is <=20 seats.
Even the ATR42 is too big an aircraft.

2.4.1 Aircraft Categories.
https://www.civilaviation.gov.in/sites/ ... RCS%29.pdf


The 19 seater Twin Otter 300 seaplanes that SG has launched can land on both water bodies and short airstrips.



Indeed. It will be interesting to see if SG will be able to afford to buy or dry-lease Twin Otters less than 20 years old to fly UDAN routes as per DGCA rules.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:27 pm

Or take the easy route and change the aircraft age limit to 50 years.
All posts are just opinions.
 
hohd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:16 pm

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/bus ... 271376.cms

Air Asia India has been talking about exiting India for a while but hoping it gets some thing in return from Tatas for their 49% share. But in the pandemic, Tatas atleast are holding firm and not likely to give in much as Tatas have Vistara to worry about and also a future possible acquisition of Air India. It is a mystery how Air Asia India is managing to fly still, Air Asia losing money, airline losing money and Tatas have not added any funds either.
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:14 pm

hohd wrote:
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/airasia-may-exit-india-end-jv-with-tata-sons/articleshow/79271376.cms

Air Asia India has been talking about exiting India for a while but hoping it gets some thing in return from Tatas for their 49% share. But in the pandemic, Tatas atleast are holding firm and not likely to give in much as Tatas have Vistara to worry about and also a future possible acquisition of Air India. It is a mystery how Air Asia India is managing to fly still, Air Asia losing money, airline losing money and Tatas have not added any funds either.


There was a recent (Aug 2020) round of fund raising, though...

In AirAsia India’s latest board meeting, joint venture partners Tata Sons and Malaysian low fare carrier AirAsia Berhad decided to raise ₹300 crore by issuing optionally convertible redeemable debentures.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 320607.cms
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:44 pm

So it looks like Tony Fernandes will end up with a smaller share of AirAsia India.

AirAsia India to get $50 million from Tatas

The Tata group will provide as much as $50 million in emergency funding to keep its budget airline joint venture in India with Malaysia’s AirAsia Group Bhd afloat, two people directly aware of the matter said.
The fund infusion through a mix of debt and equity could see the Tata group’s stake in Air Asia India Ltd grow beyond the current 51%, the people said on condition of anonymity.


https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/busin ... 51181.html
 
subramak1
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Tue Nov 24, 2020 5:57 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Financial Times scathing article about recent airport privatization in India. Not sure what led FT to publish such piece. I guess this topic is no longer considered unsubstantiated claim.

When the Indian government approved the privatisation of six airports in 2018, it relaxed the rules to widen the pool of competition, allowing companies without any experience in the sector to bid. There was one clear winner from the rule change: Gautam Adani, the billionaire industrialist with no history of running airports, scooped up all six.

His clean sweep was met with outrage. The Kerala state finance minister said Mr Adani winning the 50-year lease to operate the Trivandrum International Airport was an “act of brazen cronyism” that showed how the central government favoured politically connected tycoons.


https://www.ft.com/content/474706d6-124 ... pe=nongift


The irony is that Kerala government participated in the bid and lost because they were paying less than Adanis. They sued in Kerala HC and the court told them to get lost as they cannot participate in the process and when outcome was unfavorable claim that process was bogus( they did not claim process was unfair).In terms of bid this was a very transaparent effort. Else based on prior criterion, only GMR was winning bids.

Adani won fair and square, why do we blame this government ?

Subramanian
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:40 pm

subramak1 wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Financial Times scathing article about recent airport privatization in India. Not sure what led FT to publish such piece. I guess this topic is no longer considered unsubstantiated claim.

When the Indian government approved the privatisation of six airports in 2018, it relaxed the rules to widen the pool of competition, allowing companies without any experience in the sector to bid. There was one clear winner from the rule change: Gautam Adani, the billionaire industrialist with no history of running airports, scooped up all six.

His clean sweep was met with outrage. The Kerala state finance minister said Mr Adani winning the 50-year lease to operate the Trivandrum International Airport was an “act of brazen cronyism” that showed how the central government favoured politically connected tycoons.


https://www.ft.com/content/474706d6-124 ... pe=nongift


The irony is that Kerala government participated in the bid and lost because they were paying less than Adanis. They sued in Kerala HC and the court told them to get lost as they cannot participate in the process and when outcome was unfavorable claim that process was bogus( they did not claim process was unfair).In terms of bid this was a very transaparent effort. Else based on prior criterion, only GMR was winning bids.

Adani won fair and square, why do we blame this government ?

Subramanian


If you read the Financial Times article, government removal of "experience" condition made Adanis qualify. Hence, the questions about fair and square.
Bending deregistration/customs rules helped SpiceJet get Jet leased planes against lessor will and prime time slots
Bending frame age limit rules helped SpiceJet push 49-year-old seaplane into service

Hard to ignore the emerging pattern.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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AirIndia
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:55 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
subramak1 wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Financial Times scathing article about recent airport privatization in India. Not sure what led FT to publish such piece. I guess this topic is no longer considered unsubstantiated claim.



https://www.ft.com/content/474706d6-124 ... pe=nongift


The irony is that Kerala government participated in the bid and lost because they were paying less than Adanis. They sued in Kerala HC and the court told them to get lost as they cannot participate in the process and when outcome was unfavorable claim that process was bogus( they did not claim process was unfair).In terms of bid this was a very transaparent effort. Else based on prior criterion, only GMR was winning bids.

Adani won fair and square, why do we blame this government ?

Subramanian


If you read the Financial Times article, government removal of "experience" condition made Adanis qualify. Hence, the questions about fair and square.
Bending deregistration/customs rules helped SpiceJet get Jet leased planes against lessor will and prime time slots
Bending frame age limit rules helped SpiceJet push 49-year-old seaplane into service

Hard to ignore the emerging pattern.


When rules are 'bended', or lets say amended to benefit the entire industry its called capitalism, but when it benefits an entity its called crony capitalism.

What may look like crony capitalism now may turn out differently in the long run. Time will only tell.
 
subramak1
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:07 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
subramak1 wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Financial Times scathing article about recent airport privatization in India. Not sure what led FT to publish such piece. I guess this topic is no longer considered unsubstantiated claim.



https://www.ft.com/content/474706d6-124 ... pe=nongift


The irony is that Kerala government participated in the bid and lost because they were paying less than Adanis. They sued in Kerala HC and the court told them to get lost as they cannot participate in the process and when outcome was unfavorable claim that process was bogus( they did not claim process was unfair).In terms of bid this was a very transaparent effort. Else based on prior criterion, only GMR was winning bids.

Adani won fair and square, why do we blame this government ?

Subramanian


If you read the Financial Times article, government removal of "experience" condition made Adanis qualify. Hence, the questions about fair and square.
Bending deregistration/customs rules helped SpiceJet get Jet leased planes against lessor will and prime time slots
Bending frame age limit rules helped SpiceJet push 49-year-old seaplane into service

Hard to ignore the emerging pattern.


That condition removal also helped Kerala Government compete. If Adani becomes another competitor in airport operations in India, it will be good for GoI and public.

Subramanian
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Sat Nov 28, 2020 4:09 am

anshabhi wrote:
Happy Diwali Guysss

trinidadeG wrote:

Because majority of the 400 airfields that they want to revive are suitable only for Category I aircraft. This category, as defined in the RCS document, is <=20 seats.
Even the ATR42 is too big an aircraft.

2.4.1 Aircraft Categories.
https://www.civilaviation.gov.in/sites/ ... RCS%29.pdf


The 19 seater Twin Otter 300 seaplanes that SG has launched can land on both water bodies and short airstrips.


.. and needs to fly back to the Maldives for "Maintenance".

Less than a month after Prime Minister Narendra Modi inaugurated the seaplane service from the Sabarmati riverfront in Ahmedabad to Kevadia, the service has been temporarily suspended due to maintenance issues in the seaplane.
A spokesperson for SpiceJet confirmed the seaplane service has been suspended. “Seaplane operation has been temporarily suspended due to mandatory aircraft maintenance. Since the maintenance facility (dry and wet dock) is still under construction at Ahmedabad, the aircraft has to be sent to our lessor’s facility at Maldives. The operation will resume once the aircraft is back. The maintenance facility at Ahmedabad should be ready soon which would ensure that future maintenance is done here itself.” the spokesperson said.


https://www.hindustantimes.com/mumbai-n ... GDM4I.html
 
avier
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Sat Nov 28, 2020 1:07 pm

trinidadeG wrote:

.. and needs to fly back to the Maldives for "Maintenance".

https://www.hindustantimes.com/mumbai-n ... GDM4I.html

They need to seriously sort out their ops. Right from seaplane service being temporarily discontinued, to the indefinite delay of their LHR launch and many other announcements that rarely materialize. And now they've gotten into RT-PCR testing for CoV-19.

------------------------


Also, the announcement of Vistara flying BOM-LHR from January 16, 2021 thrice weekly, which my earlier post got deleted for I don't know why.

Hope this is a long term route and not temporary. And should go daily when things get better, subject to them somehow getting slots.

Vistara to start Mumbai-London flights from January, 2021
https://www.livemint.com/companies/news ... 98388.html
 
avier
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Sat Nov 28, 2020 1:17 pm

The timings for the BOM-LHR Vistara flight (Tue/Thu/Sat) :
BOM-LHR 1315- 1735
LHR-BOM 2020-1055

Almost typical timings, which 9W had and BA still have.
 
avier
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Sun Nov 29, 2020 2:17 pm

AirAsia India will be inducting another three A320neo's by next June-'21, taking the total tally to 5 A320Neo's.
Thereby indicating I5 will stick around through TATA group, with or without AirAsia Bhd.

And TATA group still seems interested in AI. So they want to keep all three airlines (AI, UK & I5) and might consolidate them. A bit too much IMO. Hope this doesn't sink the entire conglomerate.

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/busin ... 69791.html
https://www.cnbctv18.com/aviation/tata- ... 585361.htm
 
User avatar
trinidadeG
Posts: 318
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:43 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Sun Nov 29, 2020 4:14 pm

avier wrote:
AirAsia India will be inducting another three A320neo's by next June-'21, taking the total tally to 5 A320Neo's.
Thereby indicating I5 will stick around through TATA group, with or without AirAsia Bhd.

And TATA group still seems interested in AI. So they want to keep all three airlines (AI, UK & I5) and might consolidate them. A bit too much IMO. Hope this doesn't sink the entire conglomerate.

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/busin ... 69791.html
https://www.cnbctv18.com/aviation/tata- ... 585361.htm


That order for 5 A320NEOs is quite old and I5 would have to honour it. I don't really take these deliveries as an indicator of the future of I5.

I suppose I5 could be absorbed into Vistara. Any planes not leased from Malaysia can easily be absorbed into Vistara's planned fleet of single-class A320s that will fly domestic routes that cannot yet support premium class service.
 
debonair
Posts: 4201
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:50 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:17 pm

trinidadeG wrote:
SpiceJet to start non-stop flights to London from December 4


The clock starts ticking... But honestly I have not seen any evidence so far that those flights will commence - any more information available?!
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8977
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:32 pm

debonair wrote:
trinidadeG wrote:
SpiceJet to start non-stop flights to London from December 4


The clock starts ticking... But honestly I have not seen any evidence so far that those flights will commence - any more information available?!


So did the UK court issue with lessors settled, read somewhere SG returned some planes.

Wet lease model is working so good, Debtors cannot repo an aviation asset owned by a third party. Flies in the face of Cape Town Treaty.
All posts are just opinions.
 
portola2727
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:12 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:48 pm

AI Launching MAA-LHR from January 2021. Source:simpleflying.com
 
avier
Posts: 1235
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:37 pm

SpiceJet has added Ranchi (IXR) to its network and will connect:
BOM- IXR , DEL-IXR
They've also added Nasik (ISK) and connected to DEL/BLR/HYD.

GoAir has added Mangalore (IXE) to its network and will connect:
BOM-IXE , AMD-IXE

https://www.indiatvnews.com/business/ne ... r-5-668646

GoAir adding IXE is really interesting.
 
debonair
Posts: 4201
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:50 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:14 pm

So, it is December 04th 2020 - did Spicejet eventually started the flights to LHR? I am a bit confused, as their A330neo is according to flightradar in Maputo... :confused: A little bit too much off course I guess. :scratchchin:
 
RainerBoeing777
Posts: 592
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:43 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Fri Dec 04, 2020 8:32 pm

He asked me what will happen to Haneda's slot? slots on HND are as valuable as one on LHR because they are even harder to come by and it is unheard of that no Indian airline will show interest

It was preferable to give it to another country such as Switzerland, the Netherlands or New Zealand than if they had shown interest and had published their routes
CX - JL - LH - KE - KL - SQ - QR - QF - TG - UA
 
airboss787
Posts: 302
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:39 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:41 am

debonair wrote:
So, it is December 04th 2020 - did Spicejet eventually started the flights to LHR? I am a bit confused, as their A330neo is according to flightradar in Maputo... :confused: A little bit too much off course I guess. :scratchchin:


If having a flight number only counts, well, then these flights exist on FR24 as SG9596 (BOM-LHR) and SG9594 (DEL-LHR), the latter of which was supposed to leave today, Dec 4th at 1400hrs IST which it clearly did not. Had they ever sold tickets on these flights? This airline has always been on the edge of being a dubious organization. :?
Star Alliance Gold
 
unnayan
Posts: 224
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:57 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Sat Dec 05, 2020 3:52 am

debonair wrote:
So, it is December 04th 2020 - did Spicejet eventually started the flights to LHR? I am a bit confused, as their A330neo is according to flightradar in Maputo... :confused: A little bit too much off course I guess. :scratchchin:


The flight launch was delayed last week....

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.outloo ... definitely
 
avier
Posts: 1235
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Tue Dec 08, 2020 8:17 am

avier wrote:
SpiceJet has added Ranchi (IXR) to its network and will connect:
BOM- IXR , DEL-IXR
They've also added Nasik (ISK) and connected to DEL/BLR/HYD.

GoAir has added Mangalore (IXE) to its network and will connect:
BOM-IXE , AMD-IXE

https://www.indiatvnews.com/business/ne ... r-5-668646

GoAir adding IXE is really interesting.

^GoAir will also add BLR-IXE

Another new station they've added, to start from 15th Dec, is Coimbatore(CJB) and will connect-
BOM-CJB, BLR-CJB, MAA-CJB.

https://www.daijiworld.com/news/newsDis ... sID=778935
 
debonair
Posts: 4201
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:50 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Tue Dec 08, 2020 6:45 pm

@unnayan
Thank you for the link! Much appreciated...

Passengers who had booked SpiceJet, however, are now being rebooked to other flights.
Any more info - maybe even paying SG and flying UK?! :veryhappy:
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8977
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:15 pm

If I have to guess Air India DEL-ORD-HYD-ORD-DEL rotation on 77L mostly likely to carry Pfizer vaccine from Kalamazoo(<3hr drive from ORD) facility to Delhi and Hyderabad cold storage hubs.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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AirIndia
Posts: 1301
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2001 2:43 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:14 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
If I have to guess Air India DEL-ORD-HYD-ORD-DEL rotation on 77L mostly likely to carry Pfizer vaccine from Kalamazoo(<3hr drive from ORD) facility to Delhi and Hyderabad cold storage hubs.


At the moment India hasnt purchased Pfizer vaccine. Although I understand that Pfizer has applied for EUA for India.

However, would transportation of Pfizer vaccine be approved on a ULH pax service given the extra amounts of Dry ice the containers will require?
 
anshabhi
Posts: 2265
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:40 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Wed Dec 09, 2020 8:22 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
If I have to guess Air India DEL-ORD-HYD-ORD-DEL rotation on 77L mostly likely to carry Pfizer vaccine from Kalamazoo(<3hr drive from ORD) facility to Delhi and Hyderabad cold storage hubs.


Its ORD-DEL-HYD-DEL-ORD and a/c almost always changes for DEL-HYD leg and everyone goes through immigration at DEL only
 
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trinidadeG
Posts: 318
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:43 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:43 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
If I have to guess Air India DEL-ORD-HYD-ORD-DEL rotation on 77L mostly likely to carry Pfizer vaccine from Kalamazoo(<3hr drive from ORD) facility to Delhi and Hyderabad cold storage hubs.


SpiceJet's wet-leased A340s might beat them to it, though.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 526423.cms
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8977
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:51 pm

trinidadeG wrote:
SpiceJet's wet-leased A340s might beat them to it, though.


Of course, once SpiceJet shows up no contest. Usually let AI do the groundwork and spice it up.
All posts are just opinions.
 
VTORD
Posts: 762
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:09 pm

anshabhi wrote:
Its ORD-DEL-HYD-DEL-ORD and a/c almost always changes for DEL-HYD leg and everyone goes through immigration at DEL only

I think he means the new direct HYD-ORD that AI announced recently 2xWeekly. Even for AI it wouldn't make sense to "announce a new route" which is just an existing tag.


trinidadeG wrote:
SpiceJet's wet-leased A340s might beat them to it, though.
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 526423.cms

Based on what little I know about Pfizer's vaccine, the critical path is going to be to fly it straight from ORD into India and I don't think a current cargo flight exists on that lane. Based on this in the ET article: understand the importance of cold chain, and to this end the company has partnered with global leaders in the segment, it said. , I am thinking they are more likely to be heavier on the domestic distribution. Unless of course they already have agencies in place at ORD to load up the A340s. So you maybe right and this just my inference.

dtw2hyd wrote:
If I have to guess Air India DEL-ORD-HYD-ORD-DEL rotation on 77L mostly likely to carry Pfizer vaccine from Kalamazoo(<3hr drive from ORD) facility to Delhi and Hyderabad cold storage hubs.

So the 10 day clock starts ticking on the special packaging the moment it is closed in Pfizer's case. Given the time sensitivity, Michigan and ORD in winter, I'd say Pleasant Prairie, WI (43 minutes away) might be a better option. No idea on the differences in facilities though. Keep in mind there will be a day's distribution lag even if they ship it direct to the end POU in India w/o going to cold storage at all.
 
User avatar
trinidadeG
Posts: 318
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:43 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:33 pm

VTORD wrote:
trinidadeG wrote:
SpiceJet's wet-leased A340s might beat them to it, though.
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 526423.cms

Based on what little I know about Pfizer's vaccine, the critical path is going to be to fly it straight from ORD into India and I don't think a current cargo flight exists on that lane. Based on this in the ET article: understand the importance of cold chain, and to this end the company has partnered with global leaders in the segment, it said. , I am thinking they are more likely to be heavier on the domestic distribution. Unless of course they already have agencies in place at ORD to load up the A340s. So you maybe right and this just my inference.

dtw2hyd wrote:
If I have to guess Air India DEL-ORD-HYD-ORD-DEL rotation on 77L mostly likely to carry Pfizer vaccine from Kalamazoo(<3hr drive from ORD) facility to Delhi and Hyderabad cold storage hubs.

So the 10 day clock starts ticking on the special packaging the moment it is closed in Pfizer's case. Given the time sensitivity, Michigan and ORD in winter, I'd say Pleasant Prairie, WI (43 minutes away) might be a better option. No idea on the differences in facilities though. Keep in mind there will be a day's distribution lag even if they ship it direct to the end POU in India w/o going to cold storage at all.


Snowman Logistics, SpiceJet ink MoU for vaccine distribution

Snowman Logistics on Thursday said it signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) with Spicejet for jointly distributing COVID-19 vaccines across India and internationally.

Snowman and SpiceJet have signed a MoU for jointly engaging in storage, transportation, and distribution of Covid-19 vaccines from various manufacturers, across India and internationally, in the required temperature-controlled zones.

Snowman will handle the ground services such as transportation to/from manufacturers, warehouses, airports and consumption points, packing, storage & warehousing, in the required temperature zones, while SpiceJet will provide the air connectivity for temperature controlled distribution of the COVID-19 vaccines across India as well as internationally

https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 572_1.html
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8977
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2020

Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:11 pm

trinidadeG wrote:
Snowman Logistics on Thursday said it signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) with Spicejet for jointly distributing COVID-19 vaccines across India and internationally.


I guess this is yet another fair and square deals.
All posts are just opinions.

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