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lightsaber
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Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:06 pm

VV wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
VV wrote:
Is AirAsia X worth saving?

Or should they just close the airline?

Not worth saving at all, liabilties are in tune of US$15.9 billion, even taking of Airbus portion the debt is still too much to stomach. Like what BOC Aviation said, the airline is hopelessly insolvent.


So what would be the outcome of the "restructuring" effort?
Does it mean creditors will lose money?

The creditors losing money is a given. At this point, they will strive to maximize present value while optimizing their cash flow.

The fact AirAsiaX wants to impose their future losses on creditors is the issue. This can go multiple ways:
1. Aircraft leasing companies seize aircraft forcing full liquidation.
2. More of the equity is offered to creditors to bring them onboard.
3. Someone invests a significant amount of cash to increase the upside for the creditors.

It doesn't matter which way it goes, but the current offer seems to have a negative present value for creditors. That is a non-starter.

Lightsaber
 
VV
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Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:13 pm

What about AirAsia (non-X)?

Is the airline(s) having troubles too?
I would guess it is the case, but how deep are they in the poop?
 
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lightsaber
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Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:43 pm

    VV wrote:
    What about AirAsia (non-X)?

    Is the airline(s) having troubles too?
    I would guess it is the case, but how deep are they in the poop?

    They are in deep trouble. However, it is believed they can sell enough stock where half is used for working capital and RM380M (about a third) to pay over due debt , the might survive if enough people buy the stock:
    https://www.thestar.com.my/business/bus ... ising-plan

    However, that only leaves a sliver of cash as a cushion. The fact that AirAsia is delinquent on debt is... concerning. Not the absolute basket case of financial trouble AirAsiaX is though.

    My honest opinion is it isn't worth saving AirAsiaX at this point. Recover AirAsia and buy A321xLR when international travel grows again.

    The problem is the Delta variant is causing a bad wave, more shutdowns,

    They are also trying Islamic debt to raise money:
    https://www.msn.com/en-my/news/other/ai ... uxbndlbing

    With a tight lockdown in Bangkok, there goes one market:
    https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/as ... s-15205168

    Malaysia is already under lockdown. Per this link, 90% of the AirAsia fleet is grounded.
    https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/airasia ... 21-06-09-0

    We expect many airline bankruptcies. The survival of AirAsiaX requires getting debtors to accept forward losses, that won't happen. For AirAsia, their survival requires current investors to increase their investment significantly and a quick recovery as there won't be meaningful cash left over.

    That is not a plan. The rights issue must be for two to three times the current proposal and I fully realize a 3x investment is starting all over (equivalent to the initial investment).

    This is really scary math... The current proposals are, in my opinion, not viable. But do investors in AirAsia have the funds after a year of lockdown to invest that much to revive the franchise?

    The reality is, even with the pending post-vaccination recovery, I think AirAsia, without AirAsiaX, needs to downsize. They have about 200 aircraft, but need to drop to 70% to 80% of the current capacity. As much as possible that would be by returning A320CEOs and delaying A320NEO deliveries, reducing staff, and being brutal on expenses.

    I think AirAsia has value, but who can invest?
    In my opinion AirAsiaX was badly setup, over-expanded, and wasn't doing well bre-Covid19 and just lacks a business case for investment.

    If the government doesn't undo the silly rules I posted links on earlier to "help" AirAsiaX, it will doom AirAsia. Never change financial law on whims... anyone who has read the economist Burnstein knows better.

    Heck, read Adam Smith...

    Lightsaber
     
    Jetport
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    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:11 pm

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/malaysia ... 37603.html

    More detail in addition to Islamic debt offer lightsaber provided link for in previous post. They want to use some of the money to fund their "digital business" and "ride hailing firm". This gets more bizarre every day.
     
    VV
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    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:03 pm

    Jetport wrote:
    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/malaysian-carrier-airasia-raise-238-133737603.html

    More detail in addition to Islamic debt offer lightsaber provided link for in previous post. They want to use some of the money to fund their "digital business" and "ride hailing firm". This gets more bizarre every day.


    Indeed, it looks like AirAsia's management is giving up and will drop the airline business to do something else.
    Aircraft lessors will have trouble repossessing their asset and claiming their due.

    This is going to be very messy.
     
    RoyalBrunei757
    Posts: 617
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    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:19 pm

    Jetport wrote:
    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/malaysian-carrier-airasia-raise-238-133737603.html

    More detail in addition to Islamic debt offer lightsaber provided link for in previous post. They want to use some of the money to fund their "digital business" and "ride hailing firm". This gets more bizarre every day.

    They are trying to diversify their business from airline. They got money from some government and private insitutions for their ecommerce and ehailing platforms. Airline side secured RM336.46million via two tranches of share private placement from Dr. Stanley Choi, David Bonderman and several TPG Partners.

    https://newsroom.aviator.aero/airasia-g ... l-results/
     
    RoyalBrunei757
    Posts: 617
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    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:03 pm

    lightsaber wrote:
    VV wrote:
    RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
    Not worth saving at all, liabilties are in tune of US$15.9 billion, even taking of Airbus portion the debt is still too much to stomach. Like what BOC Aviation said, the airline is hopelessly insolvent.


    So what would be the outcome of the "restructuring" effort?
    Does it mean creditors will lose money?

    The creditors losing money is a given. At this point, they will strive to maximize present value while optimizing their cash flow.

    The fact AirAsiaX wants to impose their future losses on creditors is the issue. This can go multiple ways:
    1. Aircraft leasing companies seize aircraft forcing full liquidation.
    2. More of the equity is offered to creditors to bring them onboard.
    3. Someone invests a significant amount of cash to increase the upside for the creditors.

    It doesn't matter which way it goes, but the current offer seems to have a negative present value for creditors. That is a non-starter.

    Lightsaber

    They are just abusing the High Court;s restraining order to pro-long their misery. If I am the lessor, I will just walk away.
     
    jeffrey0032j
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    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:37 pm

    VV wrote:
    What about AirAsia (non-X)?

    Is the airline(s) having troubles too?
    I would guess it is the case, but how deep are they in the poop?

    Even if they aren't in trouble, and even if Air Asia X survives, I don't think things will be the same for Air Asia Group as a whole in the future. The whole Air Asia X fiasco is going to cost them a lot of goodwill with lessors and probably with Airbus. They may find themselves unable to negotiate better lease rates or purchase pricings with their main aircraft suppliers. This is not something which they want as an LCC.
     
    ScottB
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    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:08 pm

    lightsaber wrote:
    The reality is, even with the pending post-vaccination recovery, I think AirAsia, without AirAsiaX, needs to downsize. They have about 200 aircraft, but need to drop to 70% to 80% of the current capacity. As much as possible that would be by returning A320CEOs and delaying A320NEO deliveries, reducing staff, and being brutal on expenses.

    I think AirAsia has value, but who can invest?
    In my opinion AirAsiaX was badly setup, over-expanded, and wasn't doing well bre-Covid19 and just lacks a business case for investment.


    I think a key problem for both AirAsia and AirAsia X will also be competition from national carriers which will not be allowed to fail in the wake of Covid -- even if they were already basket cases which required billions in government funds pre-pandemic. Does anyone really think Malaysia will actually allow MH to shut down? Or Thailand with TG, or Indonesia with GA? There's this whole kabuki theater around restructuring national carriers or shutting them down that in the end just results in another injection of government cash and handwaving about how this time will be different for realsies.

    MIflyer12 wrote:
    You're suggesting that the international community - whatever that is - step in to override relevant national bankruptcy law. I don't think we want to go there. (See how Brexit became an ugly assertion of sovereignty.) I agree with another poster - aircraft leasing companies are big boys and price for risk, including 'flexible' bankruptcy law. They regularly choose venues for tax purposes. This is just another risk element.


    I don't think the suggestion was that the international community would step in. Rather, the lessors tend to be large multinationals who clearly understand the elements of risk in dealing with different jurisdictions. When you have new precedent being set in Malaysia with how bankruptcies are treated, any lessor or lender is going to change how they evaluate risks (and set premiums) in Malaysia. Also, these are sophisticated actors and many of the contracts are explicitly written to be subject to the court systems of predictable jurisdictions like the U.K. or U.S. While lessors wouldn't be able to repossess aircraft in Malaysia, AirAsia X wouldn't really be able to fly the aircraft anywhere, either, without risking impounding due to a court decision outside of Malaysia. And if they're not paying their bills to Airbus or RR, they might not end up having the parts they need.
     
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    lightsaber
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    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:12 am

    ScottB wrote:
    lightsaber wrote:
    The reality is, even with the pending post-vaccination recovery, I think AirAsia, without AirAsiaX, needs to downsize. They have about 200 aircraft, but need to drop to 70% to 80% of the current capacity. As much as possible that would be by returning A320CEOs and delaying A320NEO deliveries, reducing staff, and being brutal on expenses.

    I think AirAsia has value, but who can invest?
    In my opinion AirAsiaX was badly setup, over-expanded, and wasn't doing well bre-Covid19 and just lacks a business case for investment.


    I think a key problem for both AirAsia and AirAsia X will also be competition from national carriers which will not be allowed to fail in the wake of Covid -- even if they were already basket cases which required billions in government funds pre-pandemic. Does anyone really think Malaysia will actually allow MH to shut down? Or Thailand with TG, or Indonesia with GA? There's this whole kabuki theater around restructuring national carriers or shutting them down that in the end just results in another injection of government cash and handwaving about how this time will be different for realsies.

    MIflyer12 wrote:
    You're suggesting that the international community - whatever that is - step in to override relevant national bankruptcy law. I don't think we want to go there. (See how Brexit became an ugly assertion of sovereignty.) I agree with another poster - aircraft leasing companies are big boys and price for risk, including 'flexible' bankruptcy law. They regularly choose venues for tax purposes. This is just another risk element.


    I don't think the suggestion was that the international community would step in. Rather, the lessors tend to be large multinationals who clearly understand the elements of risk in dealing with different jurisdictions. When you have new precedent being set in Malaysia with how bankruptcies are treated, any lessor or lender is going to change how they evaluate risks (and set premiums) in Malaysia. Also, these are sophisticated actors and many of the contracts are explicitly written to be subject to the court systems of predictable jurisdictions like the U.K. or U.S. While lessors wouldn't be able to repossess aircraft in Malaysia, AirAsia X wouldn't really be able to fly the aircraft anywhere, either, without risking impounding due to a court decision outside of Malaysia. And if they're not paying their bills to Airbus or RR, they might not end up having the parts they need.

    International competition is part of why I think AirAsiaX is going the wrong way.

    Parts will be a leverage. I don't understand the game Malaysia thinks they are playing. It is not playing by the rules that will be enforced. Sigh...

    The post lockdown will be messy, the issue is getting there...

    Lightsaber
     
    RoyalBrunei757
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    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:04 am

    AirAsia proposes new convbertaible loan to raise RM1.02billion

    https://www.theedgemarkets.com/article/ ... ise-rm102b

    > Offering existing shareholders the right to buy two redeemable convertible unsecured Islamic debt securities (RCUIDS), with one free detachable warrant, for every six AirAsia shares currently held. Each RCUIDS will be priced at a nominal value of 75 sen apiece.

    > The RCUIDS come with a seven-year tenure and a profit rate of 8% per year. Each RCUIDS are also convertible to one new AirAsia share on a one-to-one basis, according to the filing to Bursa Malaysia.

    > AirAsia plans to spend about half for working capital including staff-related costs, variable costs, IT operating expenses and other general requirements. It will allocate between 10% to 12% for AirAsia Digital’s business, namely its marketing and expansion costs, as well as other technology developments.

    > The remaining balance has been earmarked for fuel hedging settlement and aircraft lease and maintenance payments, the company said.
     
    Speedy752
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    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:34 am

    Fuel hedging settlements? The black hole opens wider. Maintenance payments has me thinking repos would get messy if they haven’t paid MRO vendors. We know they haven’t paid the airports, was payroll up to date? The breadth of creditors is shocking
     
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    lightsaber
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    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:07 am

    Speedy752 wrote:
    Fuel hedging settlements? The black hole opens wider. Maintenance payments has me thinking repos would get messy if they haven’t paid MRO vendors. We know they haven’t paid the airports, was payroll up to date? The breadth of creditors is shocking

    And so far, the owners want to keep a lion's share...

    I don't know how to make a recovery plan good enough to sustain AirAsiaX at this point. What I do know is the current plan isn't in the right order of magnitude for creditors to agree to it.

    Ligthsaber
     
    dstblj52
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    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:02 pm

    RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
    AirAsia proposes new convbertaible loan to raise RM1.02billion

    https://www.theedgemarkets.com/article/ ... ise-rm102b

    > Offering existing shareholders the right to buy two redeemable convertible unsecured Islamic debt securities (RCUIDS), with one free detachable warrant, for every six AirAsia shares currently held. Each RCUIDS will be priced at a nominal value of 75 sen apiece.

    > The RCUIDS come with a seven-year tenure and a profit rate of 8% per year. Each RCUIDS are also convertible to one new AirAsia share on a one-to-one basis, according to the filing to Bursa Malaysia.

    > AirAsia plans to spend about half for working capital including staff-related costs, variable costs, IT operating expenses and other general requirements. It will allocate between 10% to 12% for AirAsia Digital’s business, namely its marketing and expansion costs, as well as other technology developments.

    > The remaining balance has been earmarked for fuel hedging settlement and aircraft lease and maintenance payments, the company said.

    why are they offering existing equity anything.... first rule of bankruptcy equity is the first loser, they should be taking 100% losses before any creditors or lessors are asked to lose a penny
     
    jbs2886
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    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:21 pm

    dstblj52 wrote:
    RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
    AirAsia proposes new convbertaible loan to raise RM1.02billion

    https://www.theedgemarkets.com/article/ ... ise-rm102b

    > Offering existing shareholders the right to buy two redeemable convertible unsecured Islamic debt securities (RCUIDS), with one free detachable warrant, for every six AirAsia shares currently held. Each RCUIDS will be priced at a nominal value of 75 sen apiece.

    > The RCUIDS come with a seven-year tenure and a profit rate of 8% per year. Each RCUIDS are also convertible to one new AirAsia share on a one-to-one basis, according to the filing to Bursa Malaysia.

    > AirAsia plans to spend about half for working capital including staff-related costs, variable costs, IT operating expenses and other general requirements. It will allocate between 10% to 12% for AirAsia Digital’s business, namely its marketing and expansion costs, as well as other technology developments.

    > The remaining balance has been earmarked for fuel hedging settlement and aircraft lease and maintenance payments, the company said.

    why are they offering existing equity anything.... first rule of bankruptcy equity is the first loser, they should be taking 100% losses before any creditors or lessors are asked to lose a penny


    Because they need capital.
     
    dstblj52
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    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:36 pm

    jbs2886 wrote:
    dstblj52 wrote:
    RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
    AirAsia proposes new convbertaible loan to raise RM1.02billion

    https://www.theedgemarkets.com/article/ ... ise-rm102b

    > Offering existing shareholders the right to buy two redeemable convertible unsecured Islamic debt securities (RCUIDS), with one free detachable warrant, for every six AirAsia shares currently held. Each RCUIDS will be priced at a nominal value of 75 sen apiece.

    > The RCUIDS come with a seven-year tenure and a profit rate of 8% per year. Each RCUIDS are also convertible to one new AirAsia share on a one-to-one basis, according to the filing to Bursa Malaysia.

    > AirAsia plans to spend about half for working capital including staff-related costs, variable costs, IT operating expenses and other general requirements. It will allocate between 10% to 12% for AirAsia Digital’s business, namely its marketing and expansion costs, as well as other technology developments.

    > The remaining balance has been earmarked for fuel hedging settlement and aircraft lease and maintenance payments, the company said.

    why are they offering existing equity anything.... first rule of bankruptcy equity is the first loser, they should be taking 100% losses before any creditors or lessors are asked to lose a penny


    Because they need capital.

    sure then don't give away any equity to people not paying their way into the business, the only way this makes sense is if their is no one willing to buy-in
     
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    Polot
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    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:27 am

    dstblj52 wrote:
    jbs2886 wrote:
    dstblj52 wrote:
    why are they offering existing equity anything.... first rule of bankruptcy equity is the first loser, they should be taking 100% losses before any creditors or lessors are asked to lose a penny


    Because they need capital.

    sure then don't give away any equity to people not paying their way into the business, the only way this makes sense is if their is no one willing to buy-in

    This is what happens when you have a business completely tied up in one man’s ego (Tony Fernandes‘s) who doesn’t want to admit defeat or cede control.
     
    dstblj52
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    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Wed Jul 14, 2021 2:37 am

    Polot wrote:
    dstblj52 wrote:
    jbs2886 wrote:

    Because they need capital.

    sure then don't give away any equity to people not paying their way into the business, the only way this makes sense is if their is no one willing to buy-in

    This is what happens when you have a business completely tied up in one man’s ego (Tony Fernandes‘s) who doesn’t want to admit defeat or cede control.

    That seems very probable
     
    RoyalBrunei757
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    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:58 pm

    Here is an overall update on AirAsia Group fleet impairment for 2020/2021.

    Fleet Impairment 2020-2021 as at July 30, 2021

    A320-200ceo

    1. MSN 2633 9M-AFB AirAsia Malaysia to Volotea as EC-NOY
    2. MSN 2656 9M-AFC AirAsia Malaysia to Laudamotion as 9H-LMT
    3. MSN 3052 RP-C8979 Philippines AirAsia. Stored at CRK
    4. MSN 3576 HS-ABG Thai AirAsia to Volotea as EC-NON
    5. MSN 3679 HS-ABH Thai AirAsia. Stored at CAN
    6. MSN 3729 HS-ABI Thai AirAsia. Stored at KUL
    7. MSN 3765 PK-AXF Indonesia AirAsia to Volotea as EC-NOQ
    8. MSN 3963 PK-AXI Indonesia AirAsia to Volotea as EC-NOR
    9. MSN 4019 HS-ABJ Thai AirAsia.Stored at KUL
    10. MSN 4035 PK-AXJ Indonesia AirAsia to Volotea as EC-NOS

    A330-300ceo

    1. MSN 713 9M-XBD: Malaysia AirAsia X Converted to freighter at DRS. July 2020
    2. MSN 741 HS-XTD: Thai AirAsia X Stored at XMN for Wamos Air EC-NOF. April 2021
    3. MSN 786 HS-XTB: Thai AirAsia X Stored at SIN for Wamos Air EC-NOG. April 2021
    4. MSN 791 HS-XTJ: Thai AirAsia X Stored at CHR: July 2021
    5. MSN 1065 HS-XTL: Thai AirAsia X Stored at CRK. July 2021
    6. MSN 1072 HS-XTM: Thai AirAsia X Stored at HKG. Apr 2020. NTU
    7. MSN 1433 9M-XXK: Malaysia AirAsia X Stored at FNI. Sold in April 2021
    8. MSN 1533 9M-XXS: Malaysia AirAsia X Stored at MNL. 8th May 2021
    9. MSN 1549 9M-XXT: Malaysia AirAsia X Stored at MNL. 13th June 2021
    10. MSN 1600 9M-XXY: Malaysia AirAsia X Stored at FNI. February 2021

    New fleet which were not taken up

    A320neo/A321neo NTUs

    A320-251X:
    1. MSN 9516 Thai AirAsia ntu to Sky Express SX-GNA, delivered 28 May 2021.
    2. MSN 9566 AirAsia Japan ntu (JA04DJ) to SkyExpress SX-TEC, delivered 23rd December 2020.
    3. MSN 10079 AirAsia Malaysia ntu (9M-RAU), to SkyExpress SX-CHG, delivered 26th June 2021.
    4. MSN 10083 AirAsia Malaysia ntu to SkyExpress as SX-IOG, delivered 27th November 2020.

    A321-251X:
    5. MSN 9512 AirAsia Malaysia ntu (9M-VAC) to North-West Air Air Company RA-73027.
    6. MSN 9524 AirAsia Malaysia ntu (9M-VAD) to North-West Air Air Company RA-73028.

    A330-900neo NTUs

    1. MSN 1967 AirAsia X – Unallocated
    2. MSN 1966 AirAsia X - Condor
    3. MSN 1970 AirAsia X - Cebu Pacific
    4. MSN 1971 Thai AirAsia X - Condor
    5. MSN 1972 AirAsia X - Condor
    6. MSN 1973 AirAsia X - Cebu Pacific
    7. MSN 1976 Thai AirAsia X - Cebu Pacific

    News update
    MSN 791 HS-XTJ: Returned to lessor, stored at CHR July 2021. https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/hs-xtj
     
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    lightsaber
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    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:18 pm

    RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
    lightsaber wrote:
    VV wrote:

    So what would be the outcome of the "restructuring" effort?
    Does it mean creditors will lose money?

    The creditors losing money is a given. At this point, they will strive to maximize present value while optimizing their cash flow.

    The fact AirAsiaX wants to impose their future losses on creditors is the issue. This can go multiple ways:
    1. Aircraft leasing companies seize aircraft forcing full liquidation.
    2. More of the equity is offered to creditors to bring them onboard.
    3. Someone invests a significant amount of cash to increase the upside for the creditors.

    It doesn't matter which way it goes, but the current offer seems to have a negative present value for creditors. That is a non-starter.

    Lightsaber

    They are just abusing the High Court;s restraining order to pro-long their misery. If I am the lessor, I will just walk away.

    Use another court to reposses. This is a travisty of financial law. The new entity will encounter interesting financing terms.

    I do wonder how this will impact AirAsia (not X). The current AirAsia X is defunct. We are now discussing a replacement airline. I just don't see a business case for creditors better than taking the aircraft back.

    Lightsaber
     
    VV
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    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:05 am

    lightsaber wrote:
    ...
    I do wonder how this will impact AirAsia (not X). The current AirAsia X is defunct. We are now discussing a replacement airline. I just don't see a business case for creditors better than taking the aircraft back.



    Is it defunct already?
     
    moa999
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    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:12 am

    lightsaber wrote:
    Use another court to reposses. This is a travisty of financial law. The new entity will encounter interesting financing terms.


    See Virgin Australia for similar example.
    Lessors have no equity in new entity.

    Arguably AAX is even worse position. Which lessor wants back a 333 at the moment, let alone a max config one that they'll have to spend $$s on before attempting to place it somewhere.
     
    2175301
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    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:10 pm

    moa999 wrote:
    lightsaber wrote:
    Use another court to reposses. This is a travisty of financial law. The new entity will encounter interesting financing terms.


    See Virgin Australia for similar example.
    Lessors have no equity in new entity.

    Arguably AAX is even worse position. Which lessor wants back a 333 at the moment, let alone a max config one that they'll have to spend $$s on before attempting to place it somewhere.


    I suspect that if this goes through the way AirAsia X wants.... that their will be no Aircraft or International Aircraft service/support company that will extend them credit. Cash up front for the aircraft and parts and even for each year's support/service contract, and no leased aircraft.

    This would also affect a lot of other industries in Malaysia. Which international company is going to provide credit to any major industrial or other transportation industry in Malaysia?

    Have a great day,
     
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    Polot
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    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:09 pm

    moa999 wrote:
    lightsaber wrote:
    Use another court to reposses. This is a travisty of financial law. The new entity will encounter interesting financing terms.


    See Virgin Australia for similar example.
    Lessors have no equity in new entity.

    Lessors don’t necessarily have to get equity in situation like this. They might settle for a cash payment, for example, even if that payment is less than the total debt owed to them.

    The issue with AAX is AAX essentially wants the the lessors to take all the pain with nothing in return (no money, no equity, no change in management, whatever). The fact that planes can’t easily be placed right now is essentially the only reason AAX technically still exists.
     
    dstblj52
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    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:28 pm

    2175301 wrote:
    moa999 wrote:
    lightsaber wrote:
    Use another court to reposses. This is a travisty of financial law. The new entity will encounter interesting financing terms.


    See Virgin Australia for similar example.
    Lessors have no equity in new entity.

    Arguably AAX is even worse position. Which lessor wants back a 333 at the moment, let alone a max config one that they'll have to spend $$s on before attempting to place it somewhere.


    I suspect that if this goes through the way AirAsia X wants.... that their will be no Aircraft or International Aircraft service/support company that will extend them credit. Cash up front for the aircraft and parts and even for each year's support/service contract, and no leased aircraft.

    This would also affect a lot of other industries in Malaysia. Which international company is going to provide credit to any major industrial or other transportation industry in Malaysia?

    Have a great day,

    I suspect most lessors will judge the money lost repoing is less then the damage done, by letting this precedent stand
     
    moa999
    Posts: 1080
    Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:37 am

    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:58 pm

    Polot wrote:
    Lessors don’t necessarily have to get equity in situation like this. They might settle for a cash payment, for example, even if that payment is less than the total debt owed to them.

    The issue with AAX is AAX essentially wants the the lessors to take all the pain with nothing in return (no money, no equity, no change in management, whatever). The fact that planes can’t easily be placed right now is essentially the only reason AAX technically still exists.


    Again look at Virgin Australia.
    Previous (listed holders) got nothing.
    Bain now controls the lot, with small side investments by Qld Govt and Virgin Group

    They dropped about 50 737s, all the 330s, mothballed 777s, dumped a huge number of leases including lounges, head office and airport space.

    When equity is worth zero, then portions of debt/leases may also need to be cancelled for zero compensation, to encourage new equity...


    The only slight difference in the AAX proposal is that existing AAX holders are seemingly keeping a slither of value, and the new equity coming in is from AAG rather than third parties.
     
    dstblj52
    Posts: 734
    Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:38 pm

    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:10 am

    moa999 wrote:
    Polot wrote:
    Lessors don’t necessarily have to get equity in situation like this. They might settle for a cash payment, for example, even if that payment is less than the total debt owed to them.

    The issue with AAX is AAX essentially wants the the lessors to take all the pain with nothing in return (no money, no equity, no change in management, whatever). The fact that planes can’t easily be placed right now is essentially the only reason AAX technically still exists.


    Again look at Virgin Australia.
    Previous (listed holders) got nothing.
    Bain now controls the lot, with small side investments by Qld Govt and Virgin Group

    They dropped about 50 737s, all the 330s, mothballed 777s, dumped a huge number of leases including lounges, head office and airport space.

    When equity is worth zero, then portions of debt/leases may also need to be cancelled for zero compensation, to encourage new equity...


    The only slight difference in the AAX proposal is that existing AAX holders are seemingly keeping a slither of value, and the new equity coming in is from AAG rather than third parties.

    That's the problem equity should have lost everying before creditors lose a penny
     
    User avatar
    flee
    Posts: 1485
    Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:14 am

    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:35 am

    dstblj52 wrote:
    That's the problem equity should have lost everying before creditors lose a penny

    I think the shareholders effectively lost everything. Capital has been reduced by 99.9% and the token 0.01% is just to ensure that they still have shareholders!

    Capital reconstruction resolutions that were approved:

    http://www.airasiax.com/misc/Circular_t ... 052021.pdf
     
    dstblj52
    Posts: 734
    Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:38 pm

    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:15 pm

    flee wrote:
    dstblj52 wrote:
    That's the problem equity should have lost everying before creditors lose a penny

    I think the shareholders effectively lost everything. Capital has been reduced by 99.9% and the token 0.01% is just to ensure that they still have shareholders!

    Capital reconstruction resolutions that were approved:

    http://www.airasiax.com/misc/Circular_t ... 052021.pdf

    effectively is not good enough they need to lose 100% before lessors should lose a penny
     
    Captaincurious
    Posts: 76
    Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:31 am

    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:12 am

    dstblj52 wrote:
    flee wrote:
    dstblj52 wrote:
    That's the problem equity should have lost everying before creditors lose a penny

    I think the shareholders effectively lost everything. Capital has been reduced by 99.9% and the token 0.01% is just to ensure that they still have shareholders!

    Capital reconstruction resolutions that were approved:

    http://www.airasiax.com/misc/Circular_t ... 052021.pdf

    effectively is not good enough they need to lose 100% before lessors should lose a penny


    If 100%, it's winding up and that's it. Any creditor can disapprove the restructuring plan and apply for winding up the airline. That's it. So stop saying 100%,100%,100%. Everyone is making their judgement on the best way forward and their financial advisors would be in a better position to know whether winding up the company is the best option out there.
     
    dstblj52
    Posts: 734
    Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:38 pm

    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:27 am

    Captaincurious wrote:
    dstblj52 wrote:
    flee wrote:
    I think the shareholders effectively lost everything. Capital has been reduced by 99.9% and the token 0.01% is just to ensure that they still have shareholders!

    Capital reconstruction resolutions that were approved:

    http://www.airasiax.com/misc/Circular_t ... 052021.pdf

    effectively is not good enough they need to lose 100% before lessors should lose a penny


    If 100%, it's winding up and that's it. Any creditor can disapprove the restructuring plan and apply for winding up the airline. That's it. So stop saying 100%,100%,100%. Everyone is making their judgement on the best way forward and their financial advisors would be in a better position to know whether winding up the company is the best option out there.

    creditors can equity holders can't
     
    RoyalBrunei757
    Posts: 617
    Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:18 am

    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:36 am

    The new plan or rather the "new" AirAsia Group won't go any further even if they surivived this round of bankruptcy. They will continue to take up many debts to serve the two co-founders' ego being "one of the biggest employers" in Malaysia and the region. Found it revolting he keeps repeating his first main tasks after the borders repoen, he will hire back all those 3k staff that he has laid off. Issue is people would have moved on, god willing, has a better job by then. The recent PR meltdown following Thai AirAsia CEO Tassapon using F word on a staff during an online townhall did not go down well in business community. He only apologised two weeks after the video went viral. Tony himself used a sexist analogy during the same townhall comparing cargo shipment with "shipping a woman" to one of his staff. Tony even defended Tassapon crude word and behaviour, saying that Tassapon would also use same F word on a male staff It says something about how is the working environment there.

    If you are not in Malaysia, you wouldn't know how "good" the actual AirAsia is. They have high turnover rate, especially file and rank officers. Some of the department leaders are sexist and racist and are out to get but would claim all the honour even though they did not any sh*t for the project. The whole organisation keep restructuring at whims and fancies of the management. All those happy faces in their media campaign are just for show only, and made people eager to with them. No doubt there are many genuine staff, especially frontliners, it is unfortunate they need to bear with some of their management uncallous attitude towards them since there isn't much opportunity in local aviation scene.

    Till date, there are still many customers who still hasn't receive their refund. Their refund process is ridiculous which you need to go through hoops and bounds just to get your money back. Then he went to media saying he will never forget those business partners who abandoned him during the pandemic, those who demand money from him etc.
    https://www.nst.com.my/business/2021/07 ... -fernandes

    "Companies that I made tonnes of money for and in some cases (AirAsia) was the reason they exist," he said without identifying the partners, during a virtual interview at Inmarsat's FlightPlan: C-Suite Week recently.

    Fernandes is adamant not to "come back and do business" with such partners when the situation got better.

    "They drop us like a hot potato. That won't be something I would forget. I remember banks and partners that stood by us. We will discriminate for sure," he said, when commenting about friends and partners who had abandoned the group.


    He fails to ackowledge business is business, nothing personal. You are answerable to your shareholders, those lessors/ business partners are too. AirAsia Group has been dragging their feet in paying them their money, why should they be kind to you?

    Talk about ego at stratospheric level......
     
    RoyalBrunei757
    Posts: 617
    Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:18 am

    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Fri Aug 06, 2021 1:56 pm

    Update August 6, 2021:

    A330-300 MSN 1432 9M-XXJ: Sold to new owner, stored at Nimes Aug 2021: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/9m-xxj

    Here is a video of her arriving into Nimes Airport: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46Wnp9tu-Gs
     
    iridescent
    Posts: 3
    Joined: Sun May 30, 2021 1:22 am

    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Sun Aug 08, 2021 2:34 am

    RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
    Update August 6, 2021:

    A330-300 MSN 1432 9M-XXJ: Sold to new owner, stored at Nimes Aug 2021: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/9m-xxj

    Here is a video of her arriving into Nimes Airport: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46Wnp9tu-Gs


    And a few more to add to the list…

    - Airbus A330-343 1596 9M-XXW AirAsia X ferried 11jul21 KUL-MNL, after storage
    - Airbus A330-343 1581 9M-XXU AirAsia X ferried 08aug21 KUL-MNL, after storage
     
    User avatar
    Devilfish
    Posts: 7502
    Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:52 am

    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Sun Aug 08, 2021 3:34 am

    iridescent wrote:
    And a few more to add to the list…

    - Airbus A330-343 1596 9M-XXW AirAsia X ferried 11jul21 KUL-MNL, after storage
    - Airbus A330-343 1581 9M-XXU AirAsia X ferried 08aug21 KUL-MNL, after storage



    Is this saying these two frames will be taken over by AAP or just going to MNL for lease return maintenance checks :confused:
     
    User avatar
    SCFlyer
    Posts: 750
    Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:14 pm

    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Sun Aug 08, 2021 8:04 am

    RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
    Update August 6, 2021:

    A330-300 MSN 1432 9M-XXJ: Sold to new owner, stored at Nimes Aug 2021: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/9m-xxj

    Here is a video of her arriving into Nimes Airport: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46Wnp9tu-Gs


    Wait a minute, did AirAsiaX own any A330s (even if mortgaged), or were their whole A330 fleet all leased? which in that case, that particular aircraft was 'returned to lessor' (if leased)
     
    RoyalBrunei757
    Posts: 617
    Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:18 am

    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Sun Aug 08, 2021 11:31 am

    SCFlyer wrote:
    RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
    Update August 6, 2021:

    A330-300 MSN 1432 9M-XXJ: Sold to new owner, stored at Nimes Aug 2021: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/9m-xxj

    Here is a video of her arriving into Nimes Airport: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46Wnp9tu-Gs


    Wait a minute, did AirAsiaX own any A330s (even if mortgaged), or were their whole A330 fleet all leased? which in that case, that particular aircraft was 'returned to lessor' (if leased)

    Yes, they used to own two A330-343X. Last year they apponted EastMerchant to sell off both, MSN 1423 adn MSN 1433. https://airlinergs.com/airasiax-mandate ... a330-300s/
     
    RoyalBrunei757
    Posts: 617
    Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:18 am

    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Sun Aug 08, 2021 11:50 am

    iridescent wrote:
    RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
    Update August 6, 2021:

    A330-300 MSN 1432 9M-XXJ: Sold to new owner, stored at Nimes Aug 2021: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/9m-xxj

    Here is a video of her arriving into Nimes Airport: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46Wnp9tu-Gs


    And a few more to add to the list…

    - Airbus A330-343 1596 9M-XXW AirAsia X ferried 11jul21 KUL-MNL, after storage
    - Airbus A330-343 1581 9M-XXU AirAsia X ferried 08aug21 KUL-MNL, after storage

    Thank you for the addition. The fate of the above two A330-343s and the other two (MSN 1533 9M-XXS, MSN 1549 9M-XXT) remains unknown at the moment as AirAsia X uses both SIN and MNL for heavy mainterance check. Last time when AirAsia X phase out their A343s, they were sent to MNL but we have seen few A333s which went there for check and returned to fleet.
     
    ScottB
    Posts: 7542
    Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Sun Aug 08, 2021 2:27 pm

    RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
    The fate of the above two A330-343s and the other two (MSN 1533 9M-XXS, MSN 1549 9M-XXT) remains unknown at the moment as AirAsia X uses both SIN and MNL for heavy mainterance check. Last time when AirAsia X phase out their A343s, they were sent to MNL but we have seen few A333s which went there for check and returned to fleet.


    Um, sure, because you spend a bunch of money on heavy maintenance for aircraft which haven't been flying for over a year and which aren't likely to fly for several months at the earliest. Especially when you're almost out of cash.
     
    jeffrey0032j
    Posts: 1053
    Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:11 pm

    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Sun Aug 08, 2021 2:44 pm

    RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
    iridescent wrote:
    RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
    Update August 6, 2021:

    A330-300 MSN 1432 9M-XXJ: Sold to new owner, stored at Nimes Aug 2021: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/9m-xxj

    Here is a video of her arriving into Nimes Airport: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46Wnp9tu-Gs


    And a few more to add to the list…

    - Airbus A330-343 1596 9M-XXW AirAsia X ferried 11jul21 KUL-MNL, after storage
    - Airbus A330-343 1581 9M-XXU AirAsia X ferried 08aug21 KUL-MNL, after storage

    Thank you for the addition. The fate of the above two A330-343s and the other two (MSN 1533 9M-XXS, MSN 1549 9M-XXT) remains unknown at the moment as AirAsia X uses both SIN and MNL for heavy mainterance check. Last time when AirAsia X phase out their A343s, they were sent to MNL but we have seen few A333s which went there for check and returned to fleet.

    It is more than likely that they were flown as lease returns to the MRO appointed by the owners.
     
    RoyalBrunei757
    Posts: 617
    Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:18 am

    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Sun Aug 08, 2021 3:47 pm

    jeffrey0032j wrote:
    RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
    iridescent wrote:

    And a few more to add to the list…

    - Airbus A330-343 1596 9M-XXW AirAsia X ferried 11jul21 KUL-MNL, after storage
    - Airbus A330-343 1581 9M-XXU AirAsia X ferried 08aug21 KUL-MNL, after storage

    Thank you for the addition. The fate of the above two A330-343s and the other two (MSN 1533 9M-XXS, MSN 1549 9M-XXT) remains unknown at the moment as AirAsia X uses both SIN and MNL for heavy mainterance check. Last time when AirAsia X phase out their A343s, they were sent to MNL but we have seen few A333s which went there for check and returned to fleet.

    It is more than likely that they were flown as lease returns to the MRO appointed by the owners.

    Could be, but I have not seen any official document or internal document to confirm they are being returned to lessor, Therefore I prefer not to count them out yet (I had inadvertently included XXS and XXT in the above list in Reply #369, apologies) This is especially true as we have witnessed for 9M-XXP MSN 1481 which went to storage at Australia for few months and was returned to KUL in May 2021. The airframe was owned by Aircastle. AirAsia X Group has stopped giving quarterly fleet brief since last year. Usually they did so pre-Covid19 era.
     
    User avatar
    flee
    Posts: 1485
    Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:14 am

    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Mon Aug 09, 2021 2:39 am

    Airasia X uses both finance and operating leases for their aircraft - it is hard to identify which aircraft has which type of lease. I would hazard a guess to say that aircraft under operating leases are more likely to be repossessed.
     
    abrelosojos
    Posts: 4326
    Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Mon Aug 09, 2021 12:56 pm

    Nothing will happen with AirAsia. If the corruption in Malaysia allows it to continue it will. AirAsia had a solid business model, even with X. Problem is that as many have argued Tony F and Datuk D basically ruined it out of their ego and greed. Look at the management team. It is basically full of cronies put in place from their friends and family circle. Half of the airlines are run by former admin assistants or chief of staff members or other under 20 year olds with zero experience except loyalty and a recognition they would be a senior analysts at best elsewhere. Anyone competent (and there has been many) lasted for 1-2 years and either left, or were transitioned out.

    If AirAsia had a half competent team run by airline professionals with zero involvement by the crooks such as Tony F and Datuk D, there may have been not only chance of survival, but of success. If you want to understand that, look at the recent investments by Indigo Partners in Cebu Pacific. Demand for the business model is there in the region, just not for a company run as poorly as AirAsia. Too bad really because like Gulf Air (in the ME as a super connector), they were the original ULCC founders in Asia.

    Saludos,
    Alex
     
    User avatar
    LAXintl
    Topic Author
    Posts: 25549
    Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Mon Sep 20, 2021 4:22 pm

    AirAsia X CEO says the airline has made "substantial progress" in talks with creditors.

    Says talks with creditors are the final stages hopes for late October creditors’ meeting to adopt restructring plan.

    http://www.orientaviation.com/articles/ ... -creditors
     
    User avatar
    lightsaber
    Moderator
    Posts: 22908
    Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:49 pm

    Thai AirAsia is doing crowdfunding.
    https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... g-strategy


    Ummm.... I hope this is a PR stunt...

    The restructuring puts RR in with other creditors... How does that work on power by the hour contracts?!? This is non-trivial in my opinion.
    https://www.thestar.com.my/business/bus ... ssing-well

    Airbus agreed to a deal:
    https://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/categ ... jet-order/

    Lightsaber
     
    RoyalBrunei757
    Posts: 617
    Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:18 am

    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Fri Oct 01, 2021 6:33 am

    Another A330-343 leaves the fleet today. 9M-XXB MSN 974 is now de-registered and new registration is VP-CJW.

    Last flight was Seoul, South Korea to Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia on May 7, 2021

    Image
    Credit with sharing permission: Ralf Ejanz of Facebook Group: 1/200 & 1/400 Diecast Aircraft
     
    DanielsBrawley
    Posts: 23
    Joined: Tue May 18, 2021 12:02 pm

    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Fri Oct 01, 2021 10:18 am

    What a minute...AirAsia is doing what? Crowdfunding? I just spit coffee all over my keyboard. I thought that was for people who needed cancer surgery or other types of social help but no, it's real. I'm dumbfounded. I hope they come up snake eyes. How low can you stoop? This is bizarro world.

    https://simpleflying.com/thai-airasia-crowdfunding/

    Thai AirAsia CEO said;

    “This crowdfunding campaign will be another avenue for people to show their support. We are touched by the positive response that we have received so far that shows how much support and confidence the public has in AirAsia, which is just as important to us overcoming this crisis.”
     
    RoyalBrunei757
    Posts: 617
    Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:18 am

    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Tue Oct 05, 2021 1:14 pm

    Malaysia's AirAsia Group wins approval for US$120m government-guaranteed loan

    https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/compan ... nteed-loan

    [KUALA LUMPUR] Malaysia's AirAsia Group has received approval from Danajamin Nasional Berhad for a club facility of up to RM500 million (S$162.3 million), it said in a statement on Tuesday.

    After applying for more than 1.5 years, they finally attained the loan approval. However the USD120mil can barely make a dent on their accounting provisional for next quarter. FYI, AirAsia X reported a loss of about MYR24.63bn ($5.89bn) in the June quarter compared with a loss of MYR305.2m reported in the same period in 2020. It also made provisions of MYR23.8bn (!!) during the period for amount payable to creditors where it is in default under terms of the contract.
     
    User avatar
    flee
    Posts: 1485
    Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:14 am

    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Tue Oct 05, 2021 1:39 pm

    RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
    Malaysia's AirAsia Group wins approval for US$120m government-guaranteed loan

    https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/compan ... nteed-loan

    [KUALA LUMPUR] Malaysia's AirAsia Group has received approval from Danajamin Nasional Berhad for a club facility of up to RM500 million (S$162.3 million), it said in a statement on Tuesday.

    After applying for more than 1.5 years, they finally attained the loan approval. However the USD120mil can barely make a dent on their accounting provisional for next quarter. FYI, AirAsia X reported a loss of about MYR24.63bn ($5.89bn) in the June quarter compared with a loss of MYR305.2m reported in the same period in 2020. It also made provisions of MYR23.8bn (!!) during the period for amount payable to creditors where it is in default under terms of the contract.

    Please note that this loan is for AirAsia Group, the short haul airline. It does not concern AirAsia X at all.
     
    jeffrey0032j
    Posts: 1053
    Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:11 pm

    Re: AirAsia X plans overhaul to survive

    Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:12 pm

    flee wrote:
    RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
    Malaysia's AirAsia Group wins approval for US$120m government-guaranteed loan

    https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/compan ... nteed-loan

    [KUALA LUMPUR] Malaysia's AirAsia Group has received approval from Danajamin Nasional Berhad for a club facility of up to RM500 million (S$162.3 million), it said in a statement on Tuesday.

    After applying for more than 1.5 years, they finally attained the loan approval. However the USD120mil can barely make a dent on their accounting provisional for next quarter. FYI, AirAsia X reported a loss of about MYR24.63bn ($5.89bn) in the June quarter compared with a loss of MYR305.2m reported in the same period in 2020. It also made provisions of MYR23.8bn (!!) during the period for amount payable to creditors where it is in default under terms of the contract.

    Please note that this loan is for AirAsia Group, the short haul airline. It does not concern AirAsia X at all.

    Yes, but I'm sure you have realized that given that there is no AirAsia Group thread, that discussions about AirAsia Group itself have been all over this thread.

    In any case, the root cause of all of AirAsia's (whether X or not) problems are largely the same - one man's ego.
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