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SpaceshipDC10
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Questions about that L1011 prototype photo

Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:18 pm

Did Air Jamaica really order the Tristar? Whose's logos are these between JM and PSA?

http://jonproctor.net/wp-content/upload ... 11-1-1.jpg
 
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Polot
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Re: Questions about that L1011 prototype photo

Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:22 pm

Air Jamaica had an order for 2 that were cancelled in March 1972:

https://www.nytimes.com/1972/03/23/arch ... stars.html

The logo to the right of JM is Air Holdings who had 50 on order. They were a British leasing/export company, not an airline.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Questions about that L1011 prototype photo

Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:50 pm

Polot wrote:
Air Jamaica had an order for 2 that were cancelled in March 1972:

https://www.nytimes.com/1972/03/23/arch ... stars.html

The logo to the right of JM is Air Holdings who had 50 on order. They were a British leasing/export company, not an airline.


It's interesting and a bit sad to notice how three of the few customers displayed on the prototype had withdrawn 33 orders over the following 18 months, 29 for Air Holdings. Things didn't go as positively as they had hoped. JM's livery would have looked great.
 
reltney
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Re: Questions about that L1011 prototype photo

Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:16 pm

I like the black cockpit outline. It worked well for the paint scheme. Trans Canadian /Air Canada’s black outline looked good also around the cockpit.

Northeast Supposedly had 1011s on order but the logo never made it to the prototype Either due to they really did Not finance the order or the Delta merger Not sure. BA/BOAC was late in the game and PanAm only had the -500.

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0A340
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Re: Questions about that L1011 prototype photo

Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:33 pm

BOAC never ordered the Tristar; BEA did, and was among the early customers, IIRC, along with Court Airlines. Suprised not to see any of these logos. BEA had a demo plane along with Eastern!
 
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Polot
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Re: Questions about that L1011 prototype photo

Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:08 pm

0A340 wrote:
BOAC never ordered the Tristar; BEA did, and was among the early customers, IIRC, along with Court Airlines. Suprised not to see any of these logos. BEA had a demo plane along with Eastern!

BEA didn’t order the plane until 1972, too late for the prototype.

Court Line’s were actually leased through Airlease International. Not sure if they are one of the logos between Air Holdings and PSA.
 
filipinoavgeek
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Re: Questions about that L1011 prototype photo

Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:37 pm

Speaking of the prototype, what happened to it after finishing test and certification flights?
RIP 9V-SKA
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SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Questions about that L1011 prototype photo

Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:48 pm

I believe I've found the answer, based on a diecast picture: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3317/329 ... 365a_o.jpg

AIr Holding, AFC Air Finance & Haas-Turner.



filipinoavgeek wrote:
Speaking of the prototype, what happened to it after finishing test and certification flights?


 
filipinoavgeek
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Re: Questions about that L1011 prototype photo

Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:53 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
I believe I've found the answer, based on a diecast picture: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3317/329 ... 365a_o.jpg

AIr Holding, AFC Air Finance & Haas-Turner.



filipinoavgeek wrote:
Speaking of the prototype, what happened to it after finishing test and certification flights?



From testbed to gift shop to conference room... sounds like a pretty interesting journey. Still a better fate than 9V-SKA at least.
RIP 9V-SKA
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melpax
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Re: Questions about that L1011 prototype photo

Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:58 am

QF were also seriously looking at the Tristar for Trans-Tasman & most likely Asian routes as well, a 747 classic would have been overkill for most of those routes in the 70's & early 80's. They eventually chose the 747SP for the NZ routes. They were also pitched to both Ansett & TAA, again, would have been too much plane for Australian domestic routes in the 70's. even the A300 was too much plane for TAA's needs in the early 80's, when some of them were leased out.

Also interesting that one of the CX Tristars was broken up in AVV.

http://www.adastron.com/lockheed/oddities/tristar.htm
 
aeromoe
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Re: Questions about that L1011 prototype photo

Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:45 am

melpax wrote:
They eventually chose the 747SP for the NZ routes.


Definite case of under-utilization (for range) if I ever heard one! Thankfully they ventured further afield and I got to see the birds at LAX over the years. Almost ALWAYS VH-EAA during my visits. I first saw VH-EAA at LAX on 30 October 1982. It wasn't until 11 November 1995 (Ninety-Five) that I got to finally see VH-EAB...and that was in Australia Asia markings. Then saw VH-EAA in Australia Asia markings in December 1995.
Since 60s: AA AC AS BA BD BF BN BR(85) BY B6 CO CZ(16) DG DL EA EI EN FI FL FT F9 HA HP ICX JI JQ J7 KE KL KS LH MC NW OC OO OZ(87) OZ(88) PA PI PN(97) PT QF QQ RM RO RV(99) RV(16) RW SK SM SQ S4 TI TS TW UA UK US UZ VS VX WA WN WS W7 XV YV YX(13) ZZ 9K
 
VSMUT
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Re: Questions about that L1011 prototype photo

Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:05 am

filipinoavgeek wrote:
Still a better fate than 9V-SKA at least.


Not quite the same. 9V-SKA was the first to enter service, but it was only the 3rd A380. The first is still with Airbus, the second is preserved at Aeroscopia. The 4th A380 is preserved in Le Bourget.

The direct equivalent of 9V-SKA should be N306EA, which was scrapped in 1984.
 
filipinoavgeek
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Re: Questions about that L1011 prototype photo

Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:00 am

VSMUT wrote:
filipinoavgeek wrote:
Still a better fate than 9V-SKA at least.


Not quite the same. 9V-SKA was the first to enter service, but it was only the 3rd A380. The first is still with Airbus, the second is preserved at Aeroscopia. The 4th A380 is preserved in Le Bourget.

The direct equivalent of 9V-SKA should be N306EA, which was scrapped in 1984.


I know, when I was saying "still a better fate than 9V-SKA" I meant that at least the plane itself was preserved in some way even if it wasn't the full frame, unlike 9V-SKA where the most we'll see of it now are luggage tags. Also, were widebodies being scrapped early common back then? A plane being scrapped in 1984 after maybe around 10 years of service doesn't sound like a particularly long life, especially today.
RIP 9V-SKA
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Re: Questions about that L1011 prototype photo

Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:11 am

Polot wrote:
BEA didn’t order the plane until 1972, too late for the prototype.


But in time for Farnborough 1972 where MSN 1006 N305EA appeared in a hybrid Eastern / BEA colour scheme. I remember it well. I was there.
 
melpax
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Re: Questions about that L1011 prototype photo

Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:12 am

aeromoe wrote:
melpax wrote:
They eventually chose the 747SP for the NZ routes.


Definite case of under-utilization (for range) if I ever heard one! Thankfully they ventured further afield and I got to see the birds at LAX over the years. Almost ALWAYS VH-EAA during my visits. I first saw VH-EAA at LAX on 30 October 1982. It wasn't until 11 November 1995 (Ninety-Five) that I got to finally see VH-EAB...and that was in Australia Asia markings. Then saw VH-EAA in Australia Asia markings in December 1995.


The SP, as well as having the legs to do the LAX runs, also was able to use the short runways at WLG, which was a consideration at the time. Remember QF was international-only until the early 90's, and there wouldn't have been worth QF buying a small fleet at the time just for NZ runs.
 
Fly2BKI
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Re: Questions about that L1011 prototype photo

Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:58 am

My question is whether there was a time traveler present in that photo. Guy in bottom left corner looks like he is on a mobile phone :-)
 
raylee67
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Re: Questions about that L1011 prototype photo

Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:37 am

aeromoe wrote:
melpax wrote:
They eventually chose the 747SP for the NZ routes.


Definite case of under-utilization (for range) if I ever heard one!


I think Wellington Airport can only handle 747SP, but not L1011 and DC10, because of the short runway? Was that true? And would that be part of the reason QF chose 74L for NZ routes?
319/20/21 332/33 342/43/45 359/51 388 707 717 732/36/3G/38/39 74R/42/43/44/4E/48 757 762/63 772/7L/73/7W 788/89 D10 M80 135/40/45 175/90 DH1/4 CRJ/R7 L10
AY LH OU SR BA FI LX
AA DL UA NW AC CP WS FL NK PD
CI NH SQ KA CX JL BR OZ TG KE CA CZ NZ JQ RS
 
aeromoe
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Re: Questions about that L1011 prototype photo

Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:43 pm

melpax wrote:
aeromoe wrote:
melpax wrote:
They eventually chose the 747SP for the NZ routes.


Definite case of under-utilization (for range) if I ever heard one! Thankfully they ventured further afield and I got to see the birds at LAX over the years. Almost ALWAYS VH-EAA during my visits. I first saw VH-EAA at LAX on 30 October 1982. It wasn't until 11 November 1995 (Ninety-Five) that I got to finally see VH-EAB...and that was in Australia Asia markings. Then saw VH-EAA in Australia Asia markings in December 1995.


The SP, as well as having the legs to do the LAX runs, also was able to use the short runways at WLG, which was a consideration at the time. Remember QF was international-only until the early 90's, and there wouldn't have been worth QF buying a small fleet at the time just for NZ runs.


Thanks for the additional insight.
Since 60s: AA AC AS BA BD BF BN BR(85) BY B6 CO CZ(16) DG DL EA EI EN FI FL FT F9 HA HP ICX JI JQ J7 KE KL KS LH MC NW OC OO OZ(87) OZ(88) PA PI PN(97) PT QF QQ RM RO RV(99) RV(16) RW SK SM SQ S4 TI TS TW UA UK US UZ VS VX WA WN WS W7 XV YV YX(13) ZZ 9K
 
reltney
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Re: Questions about that L1011 prototype photo

Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:29 am

0A340 wrote:
BOAC never ordered the Tristar; BEA did, and was among the early customers, IIRC, along with Court Airlines. Suprised not to see any of these logos. BEA had a demo plane along with Eastern!
.

Yup that’s right. BEA and the eastern combo paint job. I remember. The court and BEA logos were on some photos but I bet they were airbrushed.
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744SPX
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Re: Questions about that L1011 prototype photo

Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:41 am

Most unique nose section in all of civil aviation
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Questions about that L1011 prototype photo

Thu Oct 08, 2020 5:57 am

reltney wrote:
0A340 wrote:
BOAC never ordered the Tristar; BEA did, and was among the early customers, IIRC, along with Court Airlines. Suprised not to see any of these logos. BEA had a demo plane along with Eastern!
.

Yup that’s right. BEA and the eastern combo paint job. I remember. The court and BEA logos were on some photos but I bet they were airbrushed.


 
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DL747400
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Re: Questions about that L1011 prototype photo

Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:36 pm

filipinoavgeek wrote:
Speaking of the prototype, what happened to it after finishing test and certification flights?


filipinoavgeek wrote:
From testbed to gift shop to conference room... sounds like a pretty interesting journey.


Here is the full backstory, with more pictures and video:

https://www.deltamuseum.org/exhibits/ex ... eed-l-1011

Movie Set
After the plane retired, a Delta aircraft maintenance team traveled to Ardmore, Oklahoma, in 1989, and salvaged a 65-feet section of the fuselage from cockpit to wing. They split the section into three pieces and trucked the pieces to Atlanta.

Team created a mock-up aircraft as a set for photography sessions and filming movies, commercials and in-flight safety videos. It rested on a frame that supported and moved the three sections to allow wide camera angles. Exterior painted in classic widget livery worn by Delta L-1011’s from 1973-2001.

Movie set was housed at the Disney-MGM Studios in Orlando, Florida. At the time, Delta was the official airline of Walt Disney World. Movies filmed in the L-1011 include Passenger 57, starring Wesley Snipes, and Quick Change, starring Bill Murray.

Museum Store
Returned to Atlanta in 1999. Served briefly as a unique conference room, before opening its doors as the Delta Museum Store from June 17, 2002 to Fall 2013.

Exhibit
In Spring 2014, the L-1011 moved from Historic Hangar 1 to Historic Hangar 2 and was retrofitted as a conference room available for event rentals.
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WA707atMSP
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Re: Questions about that L1011 prototype photo

Fri Oct 09, 2020 8:46 am

Northeast cancelled their order in 1970, when they agreed to merge with Northwest; NW had a large fleet of DC-10-40s on order. The NE / NW merger was cancelled after the CAB said the merged airline would not be able to keep Northeast's newly awarded MIA-LAX route.

In the late 1970s, Lockheed also tried very hard to sell L-1011-500s to Aer Lingus, to replace EI's 707s. Aer Lingus was a major third party maintenance provider, and Lockheed hoped that if they sold TriStars to EI, other airlines in Europe / Africa would buy Tri Stars, and have EI maintain them.
 
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Re: Questions about that L1011 prototype photo

Fri Oct 09, 2020 10:02 am

reltney wrote:
0A340 wrote:
BOAC never ordered the Tristar; BEA did, and was among the early customers, IIRC, along with Court Airlines. Suprised not to see any of these logos. BEA had a demo plane along with Eastern!
.

Yup that’s right. BEA and the eastern combo paint job. I remember. The court and BEA logos were on some photos but I bet they were airbrushed.

Airbrushed? In 1972? The BEA / Eastern combo was real enough. I saw it and photographed it.

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