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berari
Posts: 917
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:47 pm

Re: Air Canada in exclusive talks to buy Air Transat

Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:50 pm

Looking at the news release below, AC seems to be working to defend how Quebecois it is and how much of its business is centred around Montreal and Quebec. It appears that the Mach+Quebec Government bid/guarantee for Air Transat has rattled AC, and it has pulled out all guns it has related to Quebec. I wonder how the government of Quebec is funding/guaranteeing such transaction though, where does it get its money?

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/air-cana ... 00106.html
 
ac7e7
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Re: Air Canada in exclusive talks to buy Air Transat

Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:57 pm

I don’t think AC is “rattled” by a competing bid of $1/share more, and still requires government funding to succeed. AC had to release a statement and they simply reiterated their commitment to the Montreal region and Quebec economy.
 
AC77X
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Re: Air Canada in exclusive talks to buy Air Transat

Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:12 pm

1989worstyear wrote:
AC77X wrote:
TObound wrote:

They'll clearly need some kind of transition plan to move TS flying over and mod all those aircraft. If seatguru is right they have 3-3-3 A330s, that will need to be transitioned. It's probably too tight, even for Rouge.

How long can we expect that to take? The TS birds aren't replacing the mainline 767, those are being replaced by the 330s that are being delivered right now. I would be surprised if they don't split them up, some to mainline, some to Rouge if they need a larger plane. If they don't, perhaps Rouge can use some of the TS 321s.


About 12 or so 763's are the same age as the TS 330's, so apart from 1986 vs. 1994 tech I don't see what the rush is to replace all of the 763's.

Well, in post #231 I did say that they can have a mixed fleet of 330s and 767s.
 
codyul
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Re: Air Canada in exclusive talks to buy Air Transat

Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:52 pm

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/transat-q2- ... -1.1272829
I'm pretty sure AC is gonna get this deal done. Mach group needing government funding and foreign money shows they are a weaker play.
YUL PNC :weightlifter:
 
jimbo737
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Re: Air Canada in exclusive talks to buy Air Transat

Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:59 pm

The Competition Bureau has yet to weigh in.

The House recesses in a week, with a fed election in October.

This ain’t gonna be done quickly, folks.
 
codyul
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Re: Air Canada in exclusive talks to buy Air Transat

Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:13 pm

jimbo737 wrote:
The Competition Bureau has yet to weigh in.

The House recesses in a week, with a fed election in October.

This ain’t gonna be done quickly, folks.


Good point. But I definitely don't think this Mach group offer is anywhere near solid. My feeling is Transat wants to get it done with AC.
YUL PNC :weightlifter:
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Air Canada in exclusive talks to buy Air Transat

Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:37 am

Transat has been loss making during the first six months of its financial year.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/t ... 20191.html
 
Bobloblaw
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Re: Air Canada in exclusive talks to buy Air Transat

Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:34 am

In no way should this buyout be allowed
 
jimbo737
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Re: Air Canada in exclusive talks to buy Air Transat

Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:03 pm

TS’s losses are a rounding error, on top of some useful “kitchen sink” accounting to create the impression all is not well in TS’s world.

They want to present a case to the Bureau that they need the deal to survive, not to mention the $13+ share purchase price, over the alternative, which is status quo and a $4 share price.

Were I a long suffering TS shareholder or investment banker, I’d want the same.

Alas, the Competition Bureau rarely considers those sorts of reasons when it makes its determination as to whether or not such a purchase would impact competition in Canada.

Even the most obtuse observer knows that removing Transat as an independent carrier to the Sun and to Europe and putting it in Air Canada’s basket would significantly reduce competitive choice in Canada.

Additionally, anyone thinking that any sort of “independent” TS management / organization / infrastructure would last, oh, about 12 months before it was entirely rolled into AC’s machine, with layoffs required to get rid of all kinds of duplication is living in complete La La land.

How long did Canadian Airlines last as brand post Dec 1999?

As much as AC is “based” in Montreal, people might be surprised at how much of the real decisions and infrastructure are actually based about 300 miles west. It’s been that way for years.

The only way TS HQ stays where it is and with no material job losses is for the competing, Quebec based offer to succeed.
 
wrongwayup
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Re: Air Canada in exclusive talks to buy Air Transat

Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:35 pm

jimbo737 wrote:
As much as AC is “based” in Montreal, people might be surprised at how much of the real decisions and infrastructure are actually based about 300 miles west. It’s been that way for years.


Sure, you put operational decisions close to the operation, and there is a LOT more of the operation based west of the Ottawa River than east of it. But the strategic / C-level is highly YUL-centric. CEO, CFO, CCO, CLO, etc. Those are the people making the "real" decisions, as you put it.
 
Trip
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Re: Air Canada in exclusive talks to buy Air Transat

Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:10 am

jimbo737 wrote:
Even the most obtuse observer knows that removing Transat as an independent carrier to the Sun and to Europe and putting it in Air Canada’s basket would significantly reduce competitive choice in Canada.


Not for long if Westjet is as mighty and as wonderful as you believe it to be. They'll have a golden opportunity to step right in and fill that competitive void.
 
codyul
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Re: Air Canada in exclusive talks to buy Air Transat

Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:28 pm

6 days left. I'm waiting...
Haha
YUL PNC :weightlifter:
 
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longhauler
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Re: Air Canada in exclusive talks to buy Air Transat

Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:40 pm

codyul wrote:
6 days left. I'm waiting...


Frankly, I would be a little surprised if this were not approved. I am sure Air Canada's legal team has done their homework and know what is likely and not likely to past muster.

On the other had, it goes back to the speculation of intent. Does AC really want to merge this operation into Rouge, or are they really just trying to keep it out the hands of its Canadian competitor. Let's face it. Westjet has a pathetic record of success in the Quebec market and acquiring Transat would go a long way, both domestically and internationally to fix that.

While Westjet can pretend that one third of the Canadian market is not worth chasing, in fact, they are leaving a lot of profit on the table by ignoring it. Clearly, it is beyond their capability ... but not beyond the capability of Transat!
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
wave46
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Re: Air Canada in exclusive talks to buy Air Transat

Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:50 pm

longhauler wrote:
codyul wrote:
6 days left. I'm waiting...


Frankly, I would be a little surprised if this were not approved. I am sure Air Canada's legal team has done their homework and know what is likely and not likely to past muster.

On the other had, it goes back to the speculation of intent. Does AC really want to merge this operation into Rouge, or are they really just trying to keep it out the hands of its Canadian competitor. Let's face it. Westjet has a pathetic record of success in the Quebec market and acquiring Transat would go a long way, both domestically and internationally to fix that.

While Westjet can pretend that one third of the Canadian market is not worth chasing, in fact, they are leaving a lot of profit on the table by ignoring it. Clearly, it is beyond their capability ... but not beyond the capability of Transat!


It would seem to be an optimal target for Onex, but not under the Westjet umbrella.

Run them as separate operations (Air Transat is well established in Quebec with branding) but provide codeshares and connections between Westjet and Air Transat.

Westjet/Onex gets the advantage of:
- expanded operations into Europe
- being able to leverage connections for people from other parts of the country into Europe via Air Transat
- decreased competition on sun routes and Europe routes from other parts of the country
- a big wad of gates/space in Pearson T3 and other airports
- increased penetration into the Quebec market

Maybe Air Canada saw this eventuality and decided to nip it in the bud? I'm not a fan of the Air Canada potential deal because it markedly decreases competition in a large portion of the country. Then again, AC is gambling $40 million on it being successful, so I believe they feel it will be a success.
 
codyul
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Re: Air Canada in exclusive talks to buy Air Transat

Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:50 pm

longhauler wrote:
codyul wrote:
6 days left. I'm waiting...


Frankly, I would be a little surprised if this were not approved. I am sure Air Canada's legal team has done their homework and know what is likely and not likely to past muster.

Yeah exactly what I've thought. That's why I've been eagerly waiting because I'm pretty sure they're gonna get something concrete signed before the end of the 30 days.
YUL PNC :weightlifter:
 
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CrewBunk
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Re: Air Canada in exclusive talks to buy Air Transat

Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:29 pm

And I am sure it’s just a coincidence that Jon Turner, the very very recently appointed President of Rouge Operations, is in fact ex Air Transat!! (Also SkyRegional and AC maintenance).
 
codyul
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Re: Air Canada in exclusive talks to buy Air Transat

Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:11 pm

CrewBunk wrote:
And I am sure it’s just a coincidence that Jon Turner, the very very recently appointed President of Rouge Operations, is in fact ex Air Transat!! (Also SkyRegional and AC maintenance).

Hehe didn't catch that, well now I'm even more confident. Calin sure knows how to keep his team tight lipped! I'm dying over here lol
YUL PNC :weightlifter:
 
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CFM565A1
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Re: Air Canada in exclusive talks to buy Air Transat

Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:45 pm

codyul wrote:
CrewBunk wrote:
And I am sure it’s just a coincidence that Jon Turner, the very very recently appointed President of Rouge Operations, is in fact ex Air Transat!! (Also SkyRegional and AC maintenance).

Hehe didn't catch that, well now I'm even more confident. Calin sure knows how to keep his team tight lipped! I'm dying over here lol


Didn't know that either :stirthepot:
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AC77X
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Re: Air Canada in exclusive talks to buy Air Transat

Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:53 pm

It seems that everyone is sure that this will happen. I guess it may be the end of one of my favorite Canadian liveries... Isn't Jazz the 4th largest airline in Canada? They would be the 3rd largest if Air Canada stops using the Air Transat name.
 
by738
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Re: Air Canada in exclusive talks to buy Air Transat

Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:00 pm

Not that I know much, but apart from a reasonable company branding in Transat, i'm not sure I would keep the brand when the overtaking internal company already has a low(er) cost offshoot which has reasonable established presence across multiple markets. Watch for Rouge A330's/A321s !
 
1989worstyear
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Re: Air Canada in exclusive talks to buy Air Transat

Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:47 pm

by738 wrote:
Not that I know much, but apart from a reasonable company branding in Transat, i'm not sure I would keep the brand when the overtaking internal company already has a low(er) cost offshoot which has reasonable established presence across multiple markets. Watch for Rouge A330's/A321s !


Could any of the A330's go to mainline?
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
ExMilitaryEng
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Re: Air Canada in exclusive talks to buy Air Transat

Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:25 pm

by738 wrote:
... I'm not sure I would keep the brand when the overtaking internal company already has a low(er) cost offshoot which has reasonable established presence across multiple markets. Watch for Rouge A330's/A321s !

My understanding is that Air Transat has simillar (lower?) costs than Rouge but is not as efficient in revenue management - like swiftly ajusting tickets prices etc.

AC is by far better tooled (IT) / experienced here.
 
codyul
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Re: Air Canada in exclusive talks to buy Air Transat

Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:34 am

Will we read an announcement tomorrow!?
YUL PNC :weightlifter:
 
YZFOO7F
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Air Canada to Buy Air Transat – Confirmed

Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:53 pm

Promise me you'll always leave the ground
 
krisyyz
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Re: Air Canada in exclusive talks to buy Air Transat

Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:59 pm

It’s official!

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/air-ca ... -1.5192056

“Shareholders will have to weigh in and regulatory agencies will have a say, as the move would consolidate Canada's airline industry in even fewer hands, against the backdrop of more upheaval in the industry. Air Canada's rival, WestJet, has agreed to be purchased by buyout firm Onex Corp. for $5 billion.”


KrisYYZ
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Air Canada to Buy Air Transat – Confirmed

Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:59 pm

Its the contrary that would have surprised me.

The plan is to maintain the two companies as separate entities, maintaining the two different brands, head offices and key functions in Montreal, the companies said in a release.


But for how long?

Transat CEO Jean-Marc Eustache said the deal represents "the ideal platform for Transat's presence and jobs in Montreal, and therefore represents the best option for all our stakeholders: employees, suppliers, partners and shareholders."


We'll see, especially for the employees.
 
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ACCS300
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Re: Air Canada to Buy Air Transat – Confirmed

Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:03 pm

Saddened to witness this, Transat provided a great alternative to AC and Rouge and has recently really upped their hard and soft products. As a Canadian traveller, losing one of the two major players in TATL choices is not good news.
 
wave46
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Re: Air Canada to Buy Air Transat – Confirmed

Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:07 pm

I'm still not a fan of this deal due to the effects it will have on competition.

Air Canada can promise to keep both separate for the regulators for a certain time, but as soon as they're past the required time, they'll fold their operations together. Why else would they buy an airline, if not to decrease the competition and increase fares? Transat doesn't exactly make money hand-over-fist and AC already has strong operations in Transat's heartland, so I'm leery of their motives.
 
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keesje
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Re: Air Canada to Buy Air Transat – Confirmed

Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:10 pm

Maybe Air Canada wanted just to prevent Onex buying Transat, rebrand to start something serious.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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leleko747
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Re: Confirmed: Air Canada to buy Air Transat

Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:26 pm

Sad. Really sad to see Air Transat go.
I wonder when people will understand:
Embraer 190 or simply E190, not ERJ-190. E-Jets are NOT ERJs!
Boeing 747-8, not Boeing 747-800. Same goes for 787.
Airbus A320, not Airbus 320.
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enilria
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Re: Air Canada to Buy Air Transat – Confirmed

Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:29 pm

wave46 wrote:
I'm still not a fan of this deal due to the effects it will have on competition.

Air Canada can promise to keep both separate for the regulators for a certain time, but as soon as they're past the required time, they'll fold their operations together. Why else would they buy an airline, if not to decrease the competition and increase fares? Transat doesn't exactly make money hand-over-fist and AC already has strong operations in Transat's heartland, so I'm leery of their motives.

Any observer of the global airline business knows the way to increase profits (to pay for an acquisition) is to decrease capacity, increase fares, and thus reduce competition. Otherwise, why would you pay anything for a money losing airline if you are AC? It's not like they don't have their own planes that can fly any route they choose.
 
jimbo737
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Re: Confirmed: Air Canada to buy Air Transat

Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:47 pm

Bingo.

This is far from a done deal. The impact on competition and pricing is huge.

The chances of Transat remaining a separate, distinct brand with a distinct head office, a completely duplicated management team and infrastructure beyond about 24 months is somewhere between slim and none.

It'll be fun to watch the fireworks as the seniority battles begin between the pilot and flight attendant groups.

If this is motivated by thoughts that WS / Onex planned to buy Transat and somehow merge it into WS's system, AC obviously remains as paranoid as they've ever been. Such a move would have been the death of WS.

Had I been AC, I would have let it happen and watched the implosion occur in real time. It would have been an utter train wreck.
 
wave46
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Re: Confirmed: Air Canada to buy Air Transat

Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:54 pm

jimbo737 wrote:
Bingo.

This is far from a done deal. The impact on competition and pricing is huge.

The chances of Transat remaining a separate, distinct brand with a distinct head office, a completely duplicated management team and infrastructure beyond about 24 months is somewhere between slim and none.

It'll be fun to watch the fireworks as the seniority battles begin between the pilot and flight attendant groups.

If this is motivated by thoughts that WS / Onex planned to buy Transat and somehow merge it into WS's system, AC obviously remains as paranoid as they've ever been. Such a move would have been the death of WS.

Had I been AC, I would have let it happen and watched the implosion occur in real time. It would have been an utter train wreck.


I could see the argument for Onex just buying Transat and running them as separate operations codesharing with Westjet.

Air Transat has an established brand in Quebec and the European destinations would be fed by codeshares from Westjet. They could also eliminate some of the overlap between the two in sun and Europe flying in other parts of the country.

It would seem to be a smart strategic move for Onex, shoring up support in the area of the country it is weakest.
 
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gdg9
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Re: Confirmed: Air Canada to buy Air Transat

Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:24 pm

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Air Transat name be retained with Rouge melded into that. Would keep the Quebec/Montreal crowd happy.
@dfwtower
 
Blerg
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Re: Confirmed: Air Canada to buy Air Transat

Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:29 pm

So that leaves Canada with two major players, Air Canada and WestJet?
 
codyul
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Re: Confirmed: Air Canada to buy Air Transat

Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:32 pm

gdg9 wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised to see the Air Transat name be retained with Rouge melded into that. Would keep the Quebec/Montreal crowd happy.

Agreed. Plus Transat is a top brand, Rouge is generally disliked.
YUL PNC :weightlifter:
 
wave46
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Re: Confirmed: Air Canada to buy Air Transat

Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:33 pm

Blerg wrote:
So that leaves Canada with two major players, Air Canada and WestJet?


Sunwing Airlines is a competitor on sun routes. They focus more on complete vacation packages though.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Confirmed: Air Canada to buy Air Transat

Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:37 pm

Blerg wrote:
So that leaves Canada with two major players, Air Canada and WestJet?


Well, on sun routes, there's still three with Sunwing. To Europe, I'd argue not much as changed as since Zoom's demise, it's been an AC/TS duopoly, while now it'll still be a duopoly, but WS will be the 2nd Canadian player. Who knows, maybe at some point Sunwing will get into the summer transatlantic game. If the MAX ever flies again, they could ETOPS their MAXes and go transatlantic from YYZ and points east without the addition of a new aircraft type. As well, WG are a strong 3rd in the sun market at YUL and arguably tops at YQB vs TS on sun routes and vs nonexistent WS.

Also on sun routes, there may be a 4th still with Flair as they finally seem to be getting their house in order and learned some big lessons from last winter.
 
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CFM565A1
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Re: Confirmed: Air Canada to buy Air Transat

Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:10 pm

Once again the jealous Tealaid people of the world are whining. They're going "oh boo hoo the competition is gone now" but then would be the ones celebrating if Onex bought Transat or Porter and merged them into WS or WEN. :lol: :roll:
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767333ER
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Re: Confirmed: Air Canada to buy Air Transat

Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:29 pm

I can see the argument for keeping the brands separate in this case, but I wanted to see Transat dissolved just so that AC could move those A321LRs to their fleet just to make sure they don’t get those 737-9s or -10s or order any more of those lousy things at all and to offer us alternatives to that thing when flying on certain routes.
codyul wrote:
gdg9 wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised to see the Air Transat name be retained with Rouge melded into that. Would keep the Quebec/Montreal crowd happy.

Agreed. Plus Transat is a top brand, Rouge is generally disliked.

I find that odd since Transat is the one flying those fabulous 9 across A310s and A330s. Rouge doesn’t have anything that crammed in. Like I’d take my chances with rouge rather than that!
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AC77X
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Re: Confirmed: Air Canada to buy Air Transat

Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:14 pm

Has it been said how long the 2 will operate separately?
 
ac7e7
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Re: Confirmed: Air Canada to buy Air Transat

Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:34 pm

CFM565A1 wrote:
Once again the jealous Tealaid people of the world are whining. They're going "oh boo hoo the competition is gone now" but then would be the ones celebrating if Onex bought Transat or Porter and merged them into WS or WEN. :lol: :roll:


Yeah, I agree. It’s a double standard that has been around for a long time. If Canadians want real competition, the government should do what Air Canada has been suggesting for many years - allowing foreign competitors to fly domestic routes as long as Canadian airlines have reciprocal rights in other countries.

The only issue is the Canadian market is relatively small. I doubt many foreign competitors would take the plunge.

Airlines have been generally profitable for the last decade because there is a balance in the market - two large domestic competitors, plus a few small or niche operations. With Westjet’s delusions of grandeur, they are forcing consolidation. I suspect this will be approved by the government, but going forward the competition bureau will be extremely sensitive to smaller airline complaints vs larger competitors.
 
YVRLTN
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Re: Confirmed: Air Canada to buy Air Transat

Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:34 pm

767333ER wrote:
I find that odd since Transat is the one flying those fabulous 9 across A310s and A330s. Rouge doesn’t have anything that crammed in. Like I’d take my chances with rouge rather than that!


I fly the TS 332's YVR - LGW, they are no worse than the high density 10 abreast 77W's AC use to LHR. The 310's are awful, but they are almost done and there is no issue with the 330's. In fact, the new cabins are quite nice and I have always found the staff great.

I wonder what will happen with the Canadian Affair side of things? They are owned by Transat, but also affiliated with Thomas Cook somehow, though TS took over all the flying after the acquisition. The longhaul UK routes are somewhat a duplication with Rouge, so there is going to be consolidation. But I am wondering if they will even maintain YVR to UK for example. YYC is already dropped, GLA direct is dropped. From a selfish point of view, TS are our lifeline home and we will really miss them, quite simply their fares being ~$5-700 cheaper than AC/BA, that is a big deal x2 out of your own pocket when self employed trying to earn a crust. Yes, there is WS, but the on time performance is so awful I don't want to risk them. They seem better so far this summer, but early in the season and I guess when more 787's are delivered things will be better.

I wonder if Canadian Affair, being a British travel agent, would go back to Thomas Cook operating the flights? The UK-Canada leisure market is massive and I'm not sure if they would be working with Rouge.

As to the fleet, the A330 is just the perfect machine, happy on 2 hour to 13 hour flights. Long term, the A339 surely has to be the ideal aircraft to replace the whole 763/330 fleet. I still can't quite believe AC went for the MAX in the first place, but the 321XLR has to be an amazing aircraft for them and RV/TS and I can see it becoming an integral part of the fleet.
Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
 
9252fly
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Re: Confirmed: Air Canada to buy Air Transat

Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:38 pm

It's been a busy few months in Canadian aviation.
- AC and TS agree to merge subject to shareholder and regulatory approval.
- WS accepts Onex's offer to purchase subject to shareholder approval, Competition Bureau approves agreement.
- Competition Bureau approves DL WS Joint Venture.
- Competition Bureau approves 7F 5T merger.
- NHI purchases the Bombardier CRJ assets with the latter exiting the commercial aviation sector.
- DeHavilland Canada purchases the DH8 program from Bombardier.
 
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767333ER
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Re: Confirmed: Air Canada to buy Air Transat

Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:05 pm

ac7e7 wrote:
CFM565A1 wrote:
Once again the jealous Tealaid people of the world are whining. They're going "oh boo hoo the competition is gone now" but then would be the ones celebrating if Onex bought Transat or Porter and merged them into WS or WEN. :lol: :roll:


Yeah, I agree. It’s a double standard that has been around for a long time. If Canadians want real competition, the government should do what Air Canada has been suggesting for many years - allowing foreign competitors to fly domestic routes as long as Canadian airlines have reciprocal rights in other countries.

The only issue is the Canadian market is relatively small. I doubt many foreign competitors would take the plunge.

Airlines have been generally profitable for the last decade because there is a balance in the market - two large domestic competitors, plus a few small or niche operations. With Westjet’s delusions of grandeur, they are forcing consolidation. I suspect this will be approved by the government, but going forward the competition bureau will be extremely sensitive to smaller airline complaints vs larger competitors.

Here's my argument on competition. How many large and somewhat financially reliable airlines does the US have? Let's see they have AA, UA, DL, WN, B6, AS, F9, HA, and NK and that's about it I think. at any rate that's a country that has a population 10 times ours spread out over a distance almost as far east/west and spread out farther north/south (let's be honest, most people don't have a reason to go any farther north than Edmonton). Since we have 1/10 of the population any many fewer large cities we could say we should have 1/10 of the airline service however we have AC/TS and WS with some others that are filling in the gaps elsewhere which is bigger than 1/10. I don't think we really can sustain so much competition sadly.

As for the ones that bleed teal, their attitude would be much the same whether they got TS or not, we made the right choice because we are AlbertaStrong and are running the better business. If they didn't get TS so the excuse is it would've been a disaster, had they got TS with all else being equal it would've been a great thing for WS and all of Canada 'cause we can go and beat out AC in their home turf like they have tried to do to us! Business as usual though WestJet will bring the knife to the gun fight because that's all they've got even though the grandeur delusions like you said would make them day dream about having more and then they end up dropping the knife on their foot without even fighting!
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2 ears for spatial hearing, 2 eyes for depth perception, 2 ears for balance... How did Boeing think 1 sensor was good enough?!
 
bluefrog
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:22 am

Re: Confirmed: Air Canada to buy Air Transat

Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:22 pm

YVRLTN wrote:
767333ER wrote:
I find that odd since Transat is the one flying those fabulous 9 across A310s and A330s. Rouge doesn’t have anything that crammed in. Like I’d take my chances with rouge rather than that!


I fly the TS 332's YVR - LGW, they are no worse than the high density 10 abreast 77W's AC use to LHR. The 310's are awful, but they are almost done and there is no issue with the 330's. In fact, the new cabins are quite nice and I have always found the staff great.

I wonder what will happen with the Canadian Affair side of things? They are owned by Transat, but also affiliated with Thomas Cook somehow, though TS took over all the flying after the acquisition. The longhaul UK routes are somewhat a duplication with Rouge, so there is going to be consolidation. But I am wondering if they will even maintain YVR to UK for example. YYC is already dropped, GLA direct is dropped. From a selfish point of view, TS are our lifeline home and we will really miss them, quite simply their fares being ~$5-700 cheaper than AC/BA, that is a big deal x2 out of your own pocket when self employed trying to earn a crust. Yes, there is WS, but the on time performance is so awful I don't want to risk them. They seem better so far this summer, but early in the season and I guess when more 787's are delivered things will be better.

I wonder if Canadian Affair, being a British travel agent, would go back to Thomas Cook operating the flights? The UK-Canada leisure market is massive and I'm not sure if they would be working with Rouge.

As to the fleet, the A330 is just the perfect machine, happy on 2 hour to 13 hour flights. Long term, the A339 surely has to be the ideal aircraft to replace the whole 763/330 fleet. I still can't quite believe AC went for the MAX in the first place, but the 321XLR has to be an amazing aircraft for them and RV/TS and I can see it becoming an integral part of the fleet.



have you seen this story on a return leg ?https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7187501/Bugs-plane-Gatwick-flight-infested-cockroach-like-insects-delayed-24-hours.html
i hope the link works
 
wrongwayup
Posts: 442
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:23 pm

Re: Confirmed: Air Canada to buy Air Transat

Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:13 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
So that leaves Canada with two major players, Air Canada and WestJet?


Well, on sun routes, there's still three with Sunwing. To Europe, I'd argue not much as changed as since Zoom's demise, it's been an AC/TS duopoly, while now it'll still be a duopoly, but WS will be the 2nd Canadian player. Who knows, maybe at some point Sunwing will get into the summer transatlantic game. If the MAX ever flies again, they could ETOPS their MAXes and go transatlantic from YYZ and points east without the addition of a new aircraft type. As well, WG are a strong 3rd in the sun market at YUL and arguably tops at YQB vs TS on sun routes and vs nonexistent WS.

Also on sun routes, there may be a 4th still with Flair as they finally seem to be getting their house in order and learned some big lessons from last winter.


Transatlantic is not a duopoly at all. I count no less than 12 European airlines flying to YYZ and 11 to YUL, as an example.
 
9252fly
Posts: 1045
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:19 am

Re: Confirmed: Air Canada to buy Air Transat

Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:48 pm

It always surprises me that many posters forget foreign airlines currently compete with Canadian based carriers. The potential loss of convenient non-stop routes and pricing seems to be the underlying concern. TS put itself up for sale for a reason.
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2875
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: Confirmed: Air Canada to buy Air Transat

Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:55 pm

wrongwayup wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
So that leaves Canada with two major players, Air Canada and WestJet?


Well, on sun routes, there's still three with Sunwing. To Europe, I'd argue not much as changed as since Zoom's demise, it's been an AC/TS duopoly, while now it'll still be a duopoly, but WS will be the 2nd Canadian player. Who knows, maybe at some point Sunwing will get into the summer transatlantic game. If the MAX ever flies again, they could ETOPS their MAXes and go transatlantic from YYZ and points east without the addition of a new aircraft type. As well, WG are a strong 3rd in the sun market at YUL and arguably tops at YQB vs TS on sun routes and vs nonexistent WS.

Also on sun routes, there may be a 4th still with Flair as they finally seem to be getting their house in order and learned some big lessons from last winter.


Transatlantic is not a duopoly at all. I count no less than 12 European airlines flying to YYZ and 11 to YUL, as an example.


Definitely, which is why I said “duopoly on the Canadian side (of the equation)”. With few exceptions, removing Transat as a competitor, will still yield lots of competition in most situations vs the domestic duopoly that is currently present on most south of 60 Canadian city pairs. Losing TS and their 0.5% domestic market share won’t have much of an impact overall.
 
User avatar
rikkus67
Posts: 1342
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2000 11:34 am

Re: Confirmed: Air Canada to buy Air Transat

Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:39 pm

CFM565A1 wrote:
Once again the jealous Tealaid people of the world are whining. They're going "oh boo hoo the competition is gone now" but then would be the ones celebrating if Onex bought Transat or Porter and merged them into WS or WEN. :lol: :roll:


Less to do with Tealaid, and more to do with the decreased competition. Competition-wise, it would be a no-brainer that an Onex deal would make much better sense to the Canadian traveller.

But hey, if everyone is OK with the possibility of "Taco Bell being the only restaurant left"... go ahead and celebrate.
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