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doulasc
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concourse B at JAX

Sun Oct 11, 2020 12:19 am

When was Concours B torn out at Jacksonville International Airport.I see JAX is down to 20 gates in Concours A and C.Are there any plans to rebuild Concours B.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: concourse B at JAX

Sun Oct 11, 2020 12:28 am

It is in the Master Plan
 
N312RC
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Re: concourse B at JAX

Sun Oct 11, 2020 12:38 am

Following a 95% decline in passenger volumes because of COVID-19, Jacksonville International Airport is postponing its Concourse B expansion.

“The way things are going and the way they pick back up, we hope to get that program back on track, possibly as soon as three years from now,” said Jacksonville Aviation Authority CEO Mark VanLoh at a news conference June 2.

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/ ... st-3-years
 
Bradin
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Re: concourse B at JAX

Sun Oct 11, 2020 12:56 am

I don't mind them postponing during COVID-19, but as soon as we're done with COVID-19, they should make the investment and move forward.

It would be a great capital project to jump start their economy.
 
Cubsrule
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Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: concourse B at JAX

Sun Oct 11, 2020 1:55 am

B was removed in 2008 or 2009 after new A and C opened.

And at present (even not accounting for COVID), there’s plenty of room in the existing footprint without rebuilding B.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
MIflyer12
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Re: concourse B at JAX

Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:56 am

Bradin wrote:
I don't mind them postponing during COVID-19, but as soon as we're done with COVID-19, they should make the investment and move forward.

It would be a great capital project to jump start their economy.


Smart politicians don't approve infrastructure you don't need as a stimulus - it just ties up money, sitting there. Twenty gates ought to give JAX the capacity for ~250 flights a day. RITA BTS data show JAX averaged about 100 scheduled passenger flights a day in 2019. Infrastructure that improves productivity - that's what you build. (Maybe that's something like a new, wider bridge so commuters don't waste as much time in traffic.)
 
Bradin
Posts: 369
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:12 am

Re: concourse B at JAX

Sun Oct 11, 2020 4:34 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Bradin wrote:
I don't mind them postponing during COVID-19, but as soon as we're done with COVID-19, they should make the investment and move forward.

It would be a great capital project to jump start their economy.


Smart politicians don't approve infrastructure you don't need as a stimulus - it just ties up money, sitting there. Twenty gates ought to give JAX the capacity for ~250 flights a day. RITA BTS data show JAX averaged about 100 scheduled passenger flights a day in 2019. Infrastructure that improves productivity - that's what you build. (Maybe that's something like a new, wider bridge so commuters don't waste as much time in traffic.)


I thought about that too, but I also had to factor in a few things.

1: Project has to be large enough 'bring a fire back to life'. Even if its a series of smaller projects, it may not be enough to have the impact of one large capital project.

2. Productivity projects are a great idea, but we also need to factor in a work-from-home economy now. Probably the largest project I can think of at this point in time to support a work from home economy is a internet infrastructure. That's pretty small all things considered.

3. The project has to be ready to go. Large capital projects go through a lot of evaluations, public hearings, designs, etc. JAX expansion is ready to go. There may not be another capital project ready to go.
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 4338
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: concourse B at JAX

Sun Oct 11, 2020 5:29 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Bradin wrote:
I don't mind them postponing during COVID-19, but as soon as we're done with COVID-19, they should make the investment and move forward.

It would be a great capital project to jump start their economy.


Smart politicians don't approve infrastructure you don't need as a stimulus - it just ties up money, sitting there. Twenty gates ought to give JAX the capacity for ~250 flights a day. RITA BTS data show JAX averaged about 100 scheduled passenger flights a day in 2019. Infrastructure that improves productivity - that's what you build. (Maybe that's something like a new, wider bridge so commuters don't waste as much time in traffic.)


12.5 flights a day is a lot of utilization for a spoke airport. Heck that's a lot for a hub.

With spokes you have to deal with the fact that mornings are going to be busier and that often requires more gates. For example when I used to work in OKC, we (UA) used 6 gates for our morning bank as we served every hub with an originator flight. Half of our daily schedule was before 8am. The rest of the day we skated by on 3 gates. You have to factor in that airlines will need more gates during their peak demand periods and it won't be consistent demand all day long.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: concourse B at JAX

Sun Oct 11, 2020 6:05 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Bradin wrote:
I don't mind them postponing during COVID-19, but as soon as we're done with COVID-19, they should make the investment and move forward.

It would be a great capital project to jump start their economy.


Smart politicians don't approve infrastructure you don't need as a stimulus - it just ties up money, sitting there. Twenty gates ought to give JAX the capacity for ~250 flights a day. RITA BTS data show JAX averaged about 100 scheduled passenger flights a day in 2019. Infrastructure that improves productivity - that's what you build. (Maybe that's something like a new, wider bridge so commuters don't waste as much time in traffic.)


12.5 flights a day is a lot of utilization for a spoke airport. Heck that's a lot for a hub.

With spokes you have to deal with the fact that mornings are going to be busier and that often requires more gates. For example when I used to work in OKC, we (UA) used 6 gates for our morning bank as we served every hub with an originator flight. Half of our daily schedule was before 8am. The rest of the day we skated by on 3 gates. You have to factor in that airlines will need more gates during their peak demand periods and it won't be consistent demand all day long.


All true, but JAX’s geography makes things a little different. JAX doesn’t have extensive service/originators to hubs west of Texas so the peak need is less than a place like OKC even though the overall size of the operations is similar.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
ScottB
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Re: concourse B at JAX

Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:06 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
For example when I used to work in OKC, we (UA) used 6 gates for our morning bank as we served every hub with an originator flight. Half of our daily schedule was before 8am. The rest of the day we skated by on 3 gates. You have to factor in that airlines will need more gates during their peak demand periods and it won't be consistent demand all day long.


Maybe, but the airlines have also gotten more frugal about how they use real estate in markets where they're not trying to block competitors. Delta pre-Covid had close to ten originators out of IAH each morning -- but they only operate from four gates. It can be a lot more cost-effective to pay ground staff to tow the planes on and off the gates.

Also, in the wake of the consolidation of the legacy carriers from eight or nine (AS, AA, CO, DL, NW, TW, UA, US, maybe HP) to four, plus the merger of WN and FL, the number of gates needed at most airports has declined somewhat.
 
deltairlines
Posts: 7105
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 4:47 am

Re: concourse B at JAX

Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:33 am

Cubsrule wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

Smart politicians don't approve infrastructure you don't need as a stimulus - it just ties up money, sitting there. Twenty gates ought to give JAX the capacity for ~250 flights a day. RITA BTS data show JAX averaged about 100 scheduled passenger flights a day in 2019. Infrastructure that improves productivity - that's what you build. (Maybe that's something like a new, wider bridge so commuters don't waste as much time in traffic.)


12.5 flights a day is a lot of utilization for a spoke airport. Heck that's a lot for a hub.

With spokes you have to deal with the fact that mornings are going to be busier and that often requires more gates. For example when I used to work in OKC, we (UA) used 6 gates for our morning bank as we served every hub with an originator flight. Half of our daily schedule was before 8am. The rest of the day we skated by on 3 gates. You have to factor in that airlines will need more gates during their peak demand periods and it won't be consistent demand all day long.


All true, but JAX’s geography makes things a little different. JAX doesn’t have extensive service/originators to hubs west of Texas so the peak need is less than a place like OKC even though the overall size of the operations is similar.


Still, at a place like JAX under normal times, you'd have something like the following for originators:
Delta: 4x ATL, LGA, JFK, DTW, BOS (so really 5-6 gates needed assuming two ATL flights use a pad for overnight parking)
American: 2x CLT, 2x DFW, PHL, ORD, DCA, MIA (so 5-6 gates)
United: ORD, EWR, IAH, DEN (realistically 3 gates)

Then add in any B6, WN, G4, F9 and NK (I'm not sure, but I'll say each of those have an overnight plus WN probably has 2-3) and that fills up the airport (I'm seeing 20 gates there). I'm not sure if they're CUTE, but from my recollections, DL has 5 contact positions, UA has 3, B6 has 2, AA has 5, which makes up 15 of the 20 gates.
 
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JAXBA
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Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:27 pm

Re: concourse B at JAX

Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:52 am

Here are some pictures I took of the plans for JAX in 2011. A&C had been built by then.

Image

Image
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