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lowfareair
Topic Author
Posts: 326
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 4:40 pm

2nd go-around for AA4345 (Republic) at PHL?

Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:13 pm

Looking at FR24, it seems that AA4345 IND-PHL did a quick goaround, and now is heading East over Southern NJ at the moment after a 2nd attempt. Anyone know what's up with it? It's raining here in PHL, but it doesn't seem like any sort of weather that would require multiple go-arounds to land.

EDIT: Looks like they switched the runway ops to East-to-West instead of West-to-East as the wind isn't that bad right now. Not sure why that required 2 goarounds for a 175 on fairly long runways, but that it likely the culprit.
 
tsra
Posts: 198
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:04 am

Re: 2nd go-around for AA4345 (Republic) at PHL?

Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:38 pm

Just spitballing here but it looks like they had to switch from the 9’s to the 27’s due to wind. The aircraft before this flight were all landing 9’s and everyone after this flight landed on 27’s.
 
Longhornmaniac
Posts: 3150
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:33 pm

Re: 2nd go-around for AA4345 (Republic) at PHL?

Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:23 pm

lowfareair wrote:
Looking at FR24, it seems that AA4345 IND-PHL did a quick goaround, and now is heading East over Southern NJ at the moment after a 2nd attempt. Anyone know what's up with it? It's raining here in PHL, but it doesn't seem like any sort of weather that would require multiple go-arounds to land.

EDIT: Looks like they switched the runway ops to East-to-West instead of West-to-East as the wind isn't that bad right now. Not sure why that required 2 goarounds for a 175 on fairly long runways, but that it likely the culprit.


If it's outside our limitations, which at YX is a 10-knot tailwind component, it's not a question of how long the runway is, it's a simple yes or no "are we exceeding a limitation?" If the answer is yes, it's a mandatory go-around.

Any number of things can happen on one approach, right down to human errors. Last week going into CLT we were landing in heavy rain and gusty winds and a wind gust coupled with my easing back on the yoke too early in very poor visibility meant we got high. Go around.

Nothing unusual here; good decision by the crew.
Cheers,
Cameron
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14967
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: 2nd go-around for AA4345 (Republic) at PHL?

Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:26 pm

Longhornmaniac wrote:
lowfareair wrote:
Looking at FR24, it seems that AA4345 IND-PHL did a quick goaround, and now is heading East over Southern NJ at the moment after a 2nd attempt. Anyone know what's up with it? It's raining here in PHL, but it doesn't seem like any sort of weather that would require multiple go-arounds to land.

EDIT: Looks like they switched the runway ops to East-to-West instead of West-to-East as the wind isn't that bad right now. Not sure why that required 2 goarounds for a 175 on fairly long runways, but that it likely the culprit.


If it's outside our limitations, which at YX is a 10-knot tailwind component, it's not a question of how long the runway is, it's a simple yes or no "are we exceeding a limitation?" If the answer is yes, it's a mandatory go-around.

Any number of things can happen on one approach, right down to human errors. Last week going into CLT we were landing in heavy rain and gusty winds and a wind gust coupled with my easing back on the yoke too early in very poor visibility meant we got high. Go around.

Nothing unusual here; good decision by the crew.


I agree completely with your larger point, though FWIW it seems unlikely that winds were the culprit. The last three wind METARs were 340 at 8, 330 at 10, and 340 at 6.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5271
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: 2nd go-around for AA4345 (Republic) at PHL?

Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:28 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
Longhornmaniac wrote:
lowfareair wrote:
Looking at FR24, it seems that AA4345 IND-PHL did a quick goaround, and now is heading East over Southern NJ at the moment after a 2nd attempt. Anyone know what's up with it? It's raining here in PHL, but it doesn't seem like any sort of weather that would require multiple go-arounds to land.

EDIT: Looks like they switched the runway ops to East-to-West instead of West-to-East as the wind isn't that bad right now. Not sure why that required 2 goarounds for a 175 on fairly long runways, but that it likely the culprit.


If it's outside our limitations, which at YX is a 10-knot tailwind component, it's not a question of how long the runway is, it's a simple yes or no "are we exceeding a limitation?" If the answer is yes, it's a mandatory go-around.

Any number of things can happen on one approach, right down to human errors. Last week going into CLT we were landing in heavy rain and gusty winds and a wind gust coupled with my easing back on the yoke too early in very poor visibility meant we got high. Go around.

Nothing unusual here; good decision by the crew.


I agree completely with your larger point, though FWIW it seems unlikely that winds were the culprit. The last three wind METARs were 340 at 8, 330 at 10, and 340 at 6.

The Metar is one reporting point on the ground at the airport. The runway end could be 2 miles away. The actual current winds on the runway can vary greatly from the last metar. Especially when the weather is rapidly changing.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14967
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: 2nd go-around for AA4345 (Republic) at PHL?

Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:31 pm

32andBelow wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
Longhornmaniac wrote:

If it's outside our limitations, which at YX is a 10-knot tailwind component, it's not a question of how long the runway is, it's a simple yes or no "are we exceeding a limitation?" If the answer is yes, it's a mandatory go-around.

Any number of things can happen on one approach, right down to human errors. Last week going into CLT we were landing in heavy rain and gusty winds and a wind gust coupled with my easing back on the yoke too early in very poor visibility meant we got high. Go around.

Nothing unusual here; good decision by the crew.


I agree completely with your larger point, though FWIW it seems unlikely that winds were the culprit. The last three wind METARs were 340 at 8, 330 at 10, and 340 at 6.

The Metar is one reporting point on the ground at the airport. The runway end could be 2 miles away. The actual current winds on the runway can vary greatly from the last metar. Especially when the weather is rapidly changing.


I know - but it seems like the weather - while disgusting - wasn't changing especially rapidly.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Longhornmaniac
Posts: 3150
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:33 pm

Re: 2nd go-around for AA4345 (Republic) at PHL?

Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:38 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
Longhornmaniac wrote:
lowfareair wrote:
Looking at FR24, it seems that AA4345 IND-PHL did a quick goaround, and now is heading East over Southern NJ at the moment after a 2nd attempt. Anyone know what's up with it? It's raining here in PHL, but it doesn't seem like any sort of weather that would require multiple go-arounds to land.

EDIT: Looks like they switched the runway ops to East-to-West instead of West-to-East as the wind isn't that bad right now. Not sure why that required 2 goarounds for a 175 on fairly long runways, but that it likely the culprit.


If it's outside our limitations, which at YX is a 10-knot tailwind component, it's not a question of how long the runway is, it's a simple yes or no "are we exceeding a limitation?" If the answer is yes, it's a mandatory go-around.

Any number of things can happen on one approach, right down to human errors. Last week going into CLT we were landing in heavy rain and gusty winds and a wind gust coupled with my easing back on the yoke too early in very poor visibility meant we got high. Go around.

Nothing unusual here; good decision by the crew.


I agree completely with your larger point, though FWIW it seems unlikely that winds were the culprit. The last three wind METARs were 340 at 8, 330 at 10, and 340 at 6.


Sure. And I didn't do a deep dive at all into the conditions then, just providing some cockpit context for things.
Cheers,
Cameron
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14967
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: 2nd go-around for AA4345 (Republic) at PHL?

Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:05 pm

Longhornmaniac wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
Longhornmaniac wrote:

If it's outside our limitations, which at YX is a 10-knot tailwind component, it's not a question of how long the runway is, it's a simple yes or no "are we exceeding a limitation?" If the answer is yes, it's a mandatory go-around.

Any number of things can happen on one approach, right down to human errors. Last week going into CLT we were landing in heavy rain and gusty winds and a wind gust coupled with my easing back on the yoke too early in very poor visibility meant we got high. Go around.

Nothing unusual here; good decision by the crew.


I agree completely with your larger point, though FWIW it seems unlikely that winds were the culprit. The last three wind METARs were 340 at 8, 330 at 10, and 340 at 6.


Sure. And I didn't do a deep dive at all into the conditions then, just providing some cockpit context for things.


. . . which all of the non-professional pilots around appreciate and probably don't thank you enough for.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Longhornmaniac
Posts: 3150
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:33 pm

Re: 2nd go-around for AA4345 (Republic) at PHL?

Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:26 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
Longhornmaniac wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

I agree completely with your larger point, though FWIW it seems unlikely that winds were the culprit. The last three wind METARs were 340 at 8, 330 at 10, and 340 at 6.


Sure. And I didn't do a deep dive at all into the conditions then, just providing some cockpit context for things.


. . . which all of the non-professional pilots around appreciate and probably don't thank you enough for.


Ha! Don't need the thanks/appreciation, just paying it forward!
Cheers,
Cameron
 
MSJYOP28Apilot
Posts: 459
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:09 am

Re: 2nd go-around for AA4345 (Republic) at PHL?

Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:34 pm

Turning the airport around during an arrival push can cause holding and if the winds were stronger than forecast can cause diversions if airlines were not warned about the potential for the airport being turned around. ATC tries to wait for a lighter arrival demand period to turn airports around. If the wind is light enough, ATC will often keep an airport in a tailwind configuration all day if they are not getting any refusals. This allows them to maintain a higher arrival rate depending on the configuration.

It very well could be that this RPA crew was trying to help ATC keep them in favorable landing configuration and thus gave the approach a second try to avoid turning the airport around.

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