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TWA772LR
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Re: Southwest Crew Base in Hawaii?

Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:23 pm

Laulau wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
kiowa wrote:

Their timing was bad for the launch (virus) and the 737 is a horrible aircraft to ride in for more than a couple of hours.

I'll admit I was one of the haters before SWA started HA service. Maybe it was I was treated like crap during my employment there, maybe because I legitimately thought they weren't going to do well, but who knows. Besides AS and UA both fly 737s to Hawaii. In fact, I find Southwests 737 to be more comfortable than my own airlines 737s!



A depressed inter-island market with poor loads and a quarantine and the topic is a base???? GIVE ME A BREAK! The inter-island market was a 1 and 1/2 airline market before SW came into the market and after covid-worse????
Im not sure why people on this tread are enormoured with a base in Hawaii with itʻs high costs. Because of the loss of business travel I am not sure the leisure market in Hawaii is gonna save SW.........With the market already saturated out of Bay Area (UA) and LAX (DL) It will be a fight to get any type of market share.
The tourism market in Hawaii is changing. The state is more in favor of LESS TOURIST and a higher end/high dollar tourist. Not sure these type are flying on a 737 out of OAK/LAX when they can choose wide bodied AC for a 5-6 hour flight.
Just a REALISTIC OBSERVATION of the transpac market and what the future holds. Just don't see any bases from ANY AiRLINE opening in Hawaii.

I agree that they're not gonna do a base. LAXintl pointed that out with his/her example of WN not opening an LAX base for decades. I don't see WN opening a base in Hawaii for decades if ever unless they push across the Pacific which will not happen. Not even UA, who actually can support a base in HNL, has a base in HNL and they are the largest airline in the Pacific. But us initial naysayers have to admit that WN is making Hawaii work at least for now.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
kiowa
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Re: Southwest Crew Base in Hawaii?

Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:00 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
Laulau wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
I'll admit I was one of the haters before SWA started HA service. Maybe it was I was treated like crap during my employment there, maybe because I legitimately thought they weren't going to do well, but who knows. Besides AS and UA both fly 737s to Hawaii. In fact, I find Southwests 737 to be more comfortable than my own airlines 737s!



A depressed inter-island market with poor loads and a quarantine and the topic is a base???? GIVE ME A BREAK! The inter-island market was a 1 and 1/2 airline market before SW came into the market and after covid-worse????
Im not sure why people on this tread are enormoured with a base in Hawaii with itʻs high costs. Because of the loss of business travel I am not sure the leisure market in Hawaii is gonna save SW.........With the market already saturated out of Bay Area (UA) and LAX (DL) It will be a fight to get any type of market share.
The tourism market in Hawaii is changing. The state is more in favor of LESS TOURIST and a higher end/high dollar tourist. Not sure these type are flying on a 737 out of OAK/LAX when they can choose wide bodied AC for a 5-6 hour flight.
Just a REALISTIC OBSERVATION of the transpac market and what the future holds. Just don't see any bases from ANY AiRLINE opening in Hawaii.

I agree that they're not gonna do a base. LAXintl pointed that out with his/her example of WN not opening an LAX base for decades. I don't see WN opening a base in Hawaii for decades if ever unless they push across the Pacific which will not happen. Not even UA, who actually can support a base in HNL, has a base in HNL and they are the largest airline in the Pacific. But us initial naysayers have to admit that WN is making Hawaii work at least for now.


Curious why you say they are making Hawaii work for now. They are keeping some service but I would have to think that they are bleeding pretty bad as most all airlines are. The people traffic to Hawaii is negligible and there is very little room for cargo in a 737.
 
mcdu
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Re: Southwest Crew Base in Hawaii?

Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:35 pm

kiowa wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
Laulau wrote:


A depressed inter-island market with poor loads and a quarantine and the topic is a base???? GIVE ME A BREAK! The inter-island market was a 1 and 1/2 airline market before SW came into the market and after covid-worse????
Im not sure why people on this tread are enormoured with a base in Hawaii with itʻs high costs. Because of the loss of business travel I am not sure the leisure market in Hawaii is gonna save SW.........With the market already saturated out of Bay Area (UA) and LAX (DL) It will be a fight to get any type of market share.
The tourism market in Hawaii is changing. The state is more in favor of LESS TOURIST and a higher end/high dollar tourist. Not sure these type are flying on a 737 out of OAK/LAX when they can choose wide bodied AC for a 5-6 hour flight.
Just a REALISTIC OBSERVATION of the transpac market and what the future holds. Just don't see any bases from ANY AiRLINE opening in Hawaii.

I agree that they're not gonna do a base. LAXintl pointed that out with his/her example of WN not opening an LAX base for decades. I don't see WN opening a base in Hawaii for decades if ever unless they push across the Pacific which will not happen. Not even UA, who actually can support a base in HNL, has a base in HNL and they are the largest airline in the Pacific. But us initial naysayers have to admit that WN is making Hawaii work at least for now.


Curious why you say they are making Hawaii work for now. They are keeping some service but I would have to think that they are bleeding pretty bad as most all airlines are. The people traffic to Hawaii is negligible and there is very little room for cargo in a 737.


It’s the “my flight was full last year, so southwest is making money in Hawaii” argument. SWA offered promotional fares to from mainland and inter island last year. These teaser fares were designed to get people on the planes and then eventually raise the fares to attain profitability. Unfortunately for SW the COVID timing crushed their strategy.

Now the options are to continue throwing money away in Hawaii flying and the interisland experiment or rationalize the losses and shift their strategy to just to/from west coast markets.

I don’t think the WN future in Hawaii would support a crew base. There is a good chance Hawaii is scaled back as they start throwing “the southwest dart” at the legacy hubs in their endeavor to attract higher paying customers. Hawaii may not even be a spoke on the map in WN’s future. While their FF may want the service you can’t support a costly endeavor with FF tickets.
 
Silver1SWA
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Re: Southwest Crew Base in Hawaii?

Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:21 pm

It’s too early to even know what’s going to happen in the future with Hawaii. The state is only now starting to welcome tourists back and it’s a slow and gradual process until more rapid and cheaper testing becomes available.

The timing was very unfortunate but come on, it’s not like there isn’t something to gain on the other side of the pandemic. Hawaii travel will rebound, probably faster than other markets as long as the state remains open.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
jplatts
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Re: Southwest Crew Base in Hawaii?

Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:56 pm

mcdu wrote:
It’s the “my flight was full last year, so southwest is making money in Hawaii” argument. SWA offered promotional fares to from mainland and inter island last year. These teaser fares were designed to get people on the planes and then eventually raise the fares to attain profitability. Unfortunately for SW the COVID timing crushed their strategy.

Now the options are to continue throwing money away in Hawaii flying and the interisland experiment or rationalize the losses and shift their strategy to just to/from west coast markets.

I don’t think the WN future in Hawaii would support a crew base. There is a good chance Hawaii is scaled back as they start throwing “the southwest dart” at the legacy hubs in their endeavor to attract higher paying customers. Hawaii may not even be a spoke on the map in WN’s future. While their FF may want the service you can’t support a costly endeavor with FF tickets.


WN could add extra daily nonstops to OAK from destinations such as AUS, MCI, and STL in order to (a) provide easier connectivity to Hawaii from AUS, MCI, and STL (and vice versa) on WN and (b) provide additional connecting feed onto WN's OAK-Hawaii nonstop flights from some contiguous U.S. markets east of the West Coast.

While WN's eastbound nonstop flights to AUS, MCI, and STL from OAK are currently in the mornings on weekdays, WN adding evening nonstop departures to AUS, MCI, and STL from OAK would allow passengers to connect to AUS, MCI, and STL from Hawaii through OAK. In addition to allowing passengers to more easily connect to AUS, MCI, and STL from Hawaii on WN, WN adding evening departures to AUS, MCI, and STL from OAK would also allow business travelers in the AUS, MCI, and STL markets to take day trips to San Francisco on WN without having to connect or stay overnight.

WN also had more nonstop service to the San Francisco Bay Area from AUS and MCI in the past, with WN having previously operated 2 daily nonstops in each direction between MCI and OAK during the summertime and WN previously serving SFO nonstop from AUS in addition to OAK and SJC.

WN also has a strong FF base in the AUS, MCI, and STL markets to support increased nonstop service to OAK from AUS, MCI, and STL on WN, and there are also some WN FF's in the AUS, MCI, and STL markets who would be willing to connect to Hawaii through OAK if WN if WN added evening nonstop departures to AUS, MCI, and STL from OAK that were scheduled at departure times that allowed for connections from its Hawaii-OAK nonstop flights.

WN would also be capturing more fare-paying connecting traffic on its OAK-Hawaii nonstop flights if it added evening nonstop departures to AUS, MCI, and STL from OAK at departure times that allowed for connections from its Hawaii-OAK nonstop flights.
 
mcdu
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Re: Southwest Crew Base in Hawaii?

Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:22 am

jplatts wrote:
mcdu wrote:
It’s the “my flight was full last year, so southwest is making money in Hawaii” argument. SWA offered promotional fares to from mainland and inter island last year. These teaser fares were designed to get people on the planes and then eventually raise the fares to attain profitability. Unfortunately for SW the COVID timing crushed their strategy.

Now the options are to continue throwing money away in Hawaii flying and the interisland experiment or rationalize the losses and shift their strategy to just to/from west coast markets.

I don’t think the WN future in Hawaii would support a crew base. There is a good chance Hawaii is scaled back as they start throwing “the southwest dart” at the legacy hubs in their endeavor to attract higher paying customers. Hawaii may not even be a spoke on the map in WN’s future. While their FF may want the service you can’t support a costly endeavor with FF tickets.


WN could add extra daily nonstops to OAK from destinations such as AUS, MCI, and STL in order to (a) provide easier connectivity to Hawaii from AUS, MCI, and STL (and vice versa) on WN and (b) provide additional connecting feed onto WN's OAK-Hawaii nonstop flights from some contiguous U.S. markets east of the West Coast.

While WN's eastbound nonstop flights to AUS, MCI, and STL from OAK are currently in the mornings on weekdays, WN adding evening nonstop departures to AUS, MCI, and STL from OAK would allow passengers to connect to AUS, MCI, and STL from Hawaii through OAK. In addition to allowing passengers to more easily connect to AUS, MCI, and STL from Hawaii on WN, WN adding evening departures to AUS, MCI, and STL from OAK would also allow business travelers in the AUS, MCI, and STL markets to take day trips to San Francisco on WN without having to connect or stay overnight.

WN also had more nonstop service to the San Francisco Bay Area from AUS and MCI in the past, with WN having previously operated 2 daily nonstops in each direction between MCI and OAK during the summertime and WN previously serving SFO nonstop from AUS in addition to OAK and SJC.

WN also has a strong FF base in the AUS, MCI, and STL markets to support increased nonstop service to OAK from AUS, MCI, and STL on WN, and there are also some WN FF's in the AUS, MCI, and STL markets who would be willing to connect to Hawaii through OAK if WN if WN added evening nonstop departures to AUS, MCI, and STL from OAK that were scheduled at departure times that allowed for connections from its Hawaii-OAK nonstop flights.

WN would also be capturing more fare-paying connecting traffic on its OAK-Hawaii nonstop flights if it added evening nonstop departures to AUS, MCI, and STL from OAK at departure times that allowed for connections from its Hawaii-OAK nonstop flights.


How is this related to a crew base in Hawaii?
 
D8SFanJet
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Re: Southwest Crew Base in Hawaii?

Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:16 am

F9Animal wrote:
Silver1SWA wrote:
F9Animal wrote:


Does WN have their own staff in Hawaii in regards to Customer Service and Ramp agents? I think Alaska outsources all their customer service and ramp?


Yes, WN has their own employees at all stations in Hawaii.


Wow!! That is awesome!! Just another reason I love Luv WN. I bet the stations are high seniority.

Actually not at all. I can’t speak about customer service but ramp and ops in all cities, except OGG ops, is very junior. There was obviously early excitement and interest when HNL/OGG were announced and they were senior on the initial bid but several people dropped out, presumably when they saw the cost of living. After more mainland flights were added, along with inter island flying, there was a flurry of hiring locally. Every city has multiple hires from their local communities.
 
DaCubbyBearBar
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Re: Southwest Crew Base in Hawaii?

Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:29 am

jplatts wrote:
mcdu wrote:
It’s the “my flight was full last year, so southwest is making money in Hawaii” argument. SWA offered promotional fares to from mainland and inter island last year. These teaser fares were designed to get people on the planes and then eventually raise the fares to attain profitability. Unfortunately for SW the COVID timing crushed their strategy.

Now the options are to continue throwing money away in Hawaii flying and the interisland experiment or rationalize the losses and shift their strategy to just to/from west coast markets.

I don’t think the WN future in Hawaii would support a crew base. There is a good chance Hawaii is scaled back as they start throwing “the southwest dart” at the legacy hubs in their endeavor to attract higher paying customers. Hawaii may not even be a spoke on the map in WN’s future. While their FF may want the service you can’t support a costly endeavor with FF tickets.


WN could add extra daily nonstops to OAK from destinations such as AUS, MCI, and STL in order to (a) provide easier connectivity to Hawaii from AUS, MCI, and STL (and vice versa) on WN and (b) provide additional connecting feed onto WN's OAK-Hawaii nonstop flights from some contiguous U.S. markets east of the West Coast.

While WN's eastbound nonstop flights to AUS, MCI, and STL from OAK are currently in the mornings on weekdays, WN adding evening nonstop departures to AUS, MCI, and STL from OAK would allow passengers to connect to AUS, MCI, and STL from Hawaii through OAK. In addition to allowing passengers to more easily connect to AUS, MCI, and STL from Hawaii on WN, WN adding evening departures to AUS, MCI, and STL from OAK would also allow business travelers in the AUS, MCI, and STL markets to take day trips to San Francisco on WN without having to connect or stay overnight.

WN also had more nonstop service to the San Francisco Bay Area from AUS and MCI in the past, with WN having previously operated 2 daily nonstops in each direction between MCI and OAK during the summertime and WN previously serving SFO nonstop from AUS in addition to OAK and SJC.

WN also has a strong FF base in the AUS, MCI, and STL markets to support increased nonstop service to OAK from AUS, MCI, and STL on WN, and there are also some WN FF's in the AUS, MCI, and STL markets who would be willing to connect to Hawaii through OAK if WN if WN added evening nonstop departures to AUS, MCI, and STL from OAK that were scheduled at departure times that allowed for connections from its Hawaii-OAK nonstop flights.

WN would also be capturing more fare-paying connecting traffic on its OAK-Hawaii nonstop flights if it added evening nonstop departures to AUS, MCI, and STL from OAK at departure times that allowed for connections from its Hawaii-OAK nonstop flights.

And what does this have to do with a Hawai’i Crew Base?
I am me and no one else...so my opinions are mine
 
jplatts
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Re: Southwest Crew Base in Hawaii?

Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:43 am

mcdu wrote:
How is this related to a crew base in Hawaii?


DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
And what does this have to do with a Hawai’i Crew Base?


While WN would not need a Hawaii crew base to connect passengers to AUS, MCI, or STL from Hawaii through OAK, WN adding evening departures to AUS, MCI, and STL from OAK at departure times that allow for connections from WN's Hawaii to OAK nonstop flights would allow WN to more easily fill its OAK to Hawaii nonstop flights. WN offering connections to destinations such as AUS, MCI, and STL from Hawaii through OAK would also stimulate additional demand for WN service to and from Hawaii.
 
gon2fly
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Re: Southwest Crew Base in Hawaii?

Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:23 pm

COSPN wrote:
Same at UA. If you dislike the costs in your station.. “move”.. same pay for all,


UA pilots receive an extra $3k/month COLA benefit while based in GUM. There is precedent with various workgroups/contracts to incentivize living in high-cost locales. No reason WN couldn't adopt a similar approach if the economics of opening a HI crew base showed that offering a COLA was financially advantageous to their operation.
 
ricq
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Re: Southwest Crew Base in Hawaii?

Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:58 pm

It doesn't seem that the Cost of Living is higher in Hawaii than in other places that WN flies to. OAK-SFO, New York, etc., seem about the same. On this chart, Honolulu comes in at number 7 on the "Cost of Living + Rent" Index. https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/r ... region=019
 
mcdu
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Re: Southwest Crew Base in Hawaii?

Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:32 pm

ricq wrote:
It doesn't seem that the Cost of Living is higher in Hawaii than in other places that WN flies to. OAK-SFO, New York, etc., seem about the same. On this chart, Honolulu comes in at number 7 on the "Cost of Living + Rent" Index. https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/r ... region=019


Does WN have a crew base in NYC? How big is the OAK base? Seems they don’t have high cost of living bases.

Property for something comfortable in Hawaii would be scaled much higher than the majority of the other WN bases.

I would think WN will see how HI plays out financially before opening a base.
 
dstblj52
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Re: Southwest Crew Base in Hawaii?

Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:36 pm

mcdu wrote:
ricq wrote:
It doesn't seem that the Cost of Living is higher in Hawaii than in other places that WN flies to. OAK-SFO, New York, etc., seem about the same. On this chart, Honolulu comes in at number 7 on the "Cost of Living + Rent" Index. https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/r ... region=019


Does WN have a crew base in NYC? How big is the OAK base? Seems they don’t have high cost of living bases.

Property for something comfortable in Hawaii would be scaled much higher than the majority of the other WN bases.

I would think WN will see how HI plays out financially before opening a base.

The real challenge is that hawaii is not really a commutable base unlike places like new york
 
JohanTally
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Re: Southwest Crew Base in Hawaii?

Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:48 pm

Hypothetically could WN have a strictly interisland fleet maybe older 737-700 and 800s? Then use the Max just for the Pacific crossings to better realize fuel savings and avoid quick turns which seem rougher on the latest generation engines. Also would they have the option to have the interisland flight be non-ETOPS? Just thinking out loud
 
WN732
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Re: Southwest Crew Base in Hawaii?

Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:12 pm

JohanTally wrote:
Hypothetically could WN have a strictly interisland fleet maybe older 737-700 and 800s? Then use the Max just for the Pacific crossings to better realize fuel savings and avoid quick turns which seem rougher on the latest generation engines. Also would they have the option to have the interisland flight be non-ETOPS? Just thinking out loud


Interisland flights would not fall under ETOPS. Like HA, they would ferry the non-ETOPS jets back and forth to/from the mainland as needed (without passengers).
 
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usxguy
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Re: Southwest Crew Base in Hawaii?

Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:18 pm

Its only a matter of time before WN does open up either an HNL crew base or mini-bases in the islands. The hotel costs are NOT cheap - I know of one property in Maui whose rate to a large US carrier is $118 a night, plus tax (this property is upwards of $400/nt to regular guests). With a 14.42% tax rate (and no resort fee), they are looking at $135.01 a night. Multiply that by 6, if not 12 (depending on layover).... so we're at $810 just for ONE CREW for one night.

Yeah, sorry. A WN HI crew base is coming. Especially with WN looking to trim as much as it can cost wise.

This isn't Florida where the airport Crowne Plaza is giving the airlines a $55 rate.
xx
 
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barney captain
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Re: Southwest Crew Base in Hawaii?

Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:41 pm

The cost of living argument for the employees is irrelevant - if it makes sense for SWA to open a Hawaii crew base they will. After OAK opened in 1995, rumors continued to swirl that "SWA regrets opening OAK", "We're going to close OAK" and "They'll never open another California crew base" - right up until the day they announced LAX :roll: Between LAX and OAK there are approximately 1000 pilots and probably twice that in Flight Attendants.

Covid has thrown everything into the "who knows" column, but just prior to March, Kelly stated had big plans for Hawaii. This was after already announcing most of what I thought could be expected in that market. I wouldn't discount the possibility of a base.
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jaybird
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Re: Southwest Crew Base in Hawaii?

Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:17 pm

Generally speaking - what's the threshold for opening crew bases anywhere? Number of flights? Number of overnight aircraft? something else?
 
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barney captain
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Re: Southwest Crew Base in Hawaii?

Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:22 pm

jaybird wrote:
Generally speaking - what's the threshold for opening crew bases anywhere? Number of flights? Number of overnight aircraft? something else?


It's always been based on the number of overnighting aircraft which, based on that metric HNL isn't even close - and may never be. However Hawaii presents other logistical challenges that may outweigh that single measure. Hard to say.
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wnflyguy
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Re: Southwest Crew Base in Hawaii?

Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:41 pm

barney captain wrote:
The cost of living argument for the employees is irrelevant - if it makes sense for SWA to open a Hawaii crew base they will. After OAK opened in 1995, rumors continued to swirl that "SWA regrets opening OAK", "We're going to close OAK" and "They'll never open another California crew base" - right up until the day they announced LAX :roll: Between LAX and OAK there are approximately 1000 pilots and probably twice that in Flight Attendants.

Covid has thrown everything into the "who knows" column, but just prior to March, Kelly stated had big plans for Hawaii. This was after already announcing most of what I thought could be expected in that market. I wouldn't discount the possibility of a base.


WN will Double down on Hawaii if the pre covid testing is successful. They said at the Boyd conference there actively watching the out come of the early stages of the testing. With the Max returning in January WN Will No longer Have a lack of aircraft problem. They will be set up to grab a huge marketshare to Hawaii in 2021.
Also because of Covid HNL has a lot of open gate flexibility so WN has been actively looking at open gates for future expansion.

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TWA772LR
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Re: Southwest Crew Base in Hawaii?

Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:50 pm

barney captain wrote:
jaybird wrote:
Generally speaking - what's the threshold for opening crew bases anywhere? Number of flights? Number of overnight aircraft? something else?


It's always been based on the number of overnighting aircraft which, based on that metric HNL isn't even close - and may never be. However Hawaii presents other logistical challenges that may outweigh that single measure. Hard to say.

Well the LAX base was made mostly to support the Hawaii operation. Factoring that in it may still be a while.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
JohanTally
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Re: Southwest Crew Base in Hawaii?

Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:02 pm

WN732 wrote:
JohanTally wrote:
Hypothetically could WN have a strictly interisland fleet maybe older 737-700 and 800s? Then use the Max just for the Pacific crossings to better realize fuel savings and avoid quick turns which seem rougher on the latest generation engines. Also would they have the option to have the interisland flight be non-ETOPS? Just thinking out loud


Interisland flights would not fall under ETOPS. Like HA, they would ferry the non-ETOPS jets back and forth to/from the mainland as needed (without passengers).


I understand ETOPS isn't needed for the interisland flights. Would it potentially make more sense to have a dedicated fleet doing island hops like HA with only the MAX only doing the Pacific crossings?
 
Silver1SWA
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Re: Southwest Crew Base in Hawaii?

Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:19 am

wnflyguy wrote:
if the pre covid testing is successful.

Flyguy


I flew back to Hawaii today and the pre-travel test and arrival screening process was quick and painless. There’s a lot of homework involved but as long as you have all the necessary steps completed prior to arrival the process is smooth. I heard they had some initial pains the first few days but that’s to be expected. I’m encouraged by what I experienced firsthand.

I’m anxious to see how case numbers go over the next couple weeks. Hopefully things stay under control.
Last edited by Silver1SWA on Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
F9Animal
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Re: Southwest Crew Base in Hawaii?

Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:21 am

D8SFanJet wrote:
F9Animal wrote:
Silver1SWA wrote:

Yes, WN has their own employees at all stations in Hawaii.


Wow!! That is awesome!! Just another reason I love Luv WN. I bet the stations are high seniority.

Actually not at all. I can’t speak about customer service but ramp and ops in all cities, except OGG ops, is very junior. There was obviously early excitement and interest when HNL/OGG were announced and they were senior on the initial bid but several people dropped out, presumably when they saw the cost of living. After more mainland flights were added, along with inter island flying, there was a flurry of hiring locally. Every city has multiple hires from their local communities.


Wow!! Yep, I remember looking at living in OGG. I couldn't even afford to live in a tent there with the airline wages.
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barney captain
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Re: Southwest Crew Base in Hawaii?

Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:18 am

TWA772LR wrote:
barney captain wrote:
jaybird wrote:
Generally speaking - what's the threshold for opening crew bases anywhere? Number of flights? Number of overnight aircraft? something else?


It's always been based on the number of overnighting aircraft which, based on that metric HNL isn't even close - and may never be. However Hawaii presents other logistical challenges that may outweigh that single measure. Hard to say.

Well the LAX base was made mostly to support the Hawaii operation. Factoring that in it may still be a while.


Which has never made any sense to me. Exactly zero LAX pairings begin or end with an etops leg. They all do a conus flight (or day) before or aftef heading over water. This could have easily been supported by LAS or PHX.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
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Laulau
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Re: Southwest Crew Base in Hawaii?

Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:43 am

Silver1SWA wrote:
It’s too early to even know what’s going to happen in the future with Hawaii. The state is only now starting to welcome tourists back and it’s a slow and gradual process until more rapid and cheaper testing becomes available.

The timing was very unfortunate but come on, it’s not like there isn’t something to gain on the other side of the pandemic. Hawaii travel will rebound, probably faster than other markets as long as the state remains open.


The problem u have right now with SW in the market as follows:
1.) Inter island market is losing money because of state quarantine and the inefficiency of rotating a/c out of OAK to operate daily schedule. (Loads are pretty much empty going from island to island).
2.) Even in good times the inter-island market was a 1-1 1/2 airline market at best and was very low on its margins. The market has claimed airlines such Mesa (Go airlines), Aloha, and Mid Pac Airlines over the years. There is NO CHANCE of any growth after this pandemic.
3.)West Coast Market has many if not superior products i.e. (United/Delta/American/Hawaiian) to compete with. Majors have slowly increased capacity from the west coast to Hawaii this past month and will add additional flights the next few months.
4.) The post covid tourist to Hawaii is will be from a higher income bracket and be more inclined to fly a wide bodied AC to the islands. Not sure this type of tourist is gonna want to sit 6 hours on a 737 to Hawaii......Then add the safety issues that the new MAX has had with the crashes and delayed recertification. Not sure people are gonna want to fly on that AC if and when they try to use it in the market.
 
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TWA772LR
Posts: 7574
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:12 am

Re: Southwest Crew Base in Hawaii?

Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:48 am

barney captain wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
barney captain wrote:

It's always been based on the number of overnighting aircraft which, based on that metric HNL isn't even close - and may never be. However Hawaii presents other logistical challenges that may outweigh that single measure. Hard to say.

Well the LAX base was made mostly to support the Hawaii operation. Factoring that in it may still be a while.


Which has never made any sense to me. Exactly zero LAX pairings begin or end with an etops leg. They all do a conus flight (or day) before or aftef heading over water. This could have easily been supported by LAS or PHX.

Especially considering there aren't WN flights from LAX to Hawaii.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
Silver1SWA
Posts: 4747
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

Re: Southwest Crew Base in Hawaii?

Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:08 am

Laulau wrote:
Silver1SWA wrote:
It’s too early to even know what’s going to happen in the future with Hawaii. The state is only now starting to welcome tourists back and it’s a slow and gradual process until more rapid and cheaper testing becomes available.

The timing was very unfortunate but come on, it’s not like there isn’t something to gain on the other side of the pandemic. Hawaii travel will rebound, probably faster than other markets as long as the state remains open.


The problem u have right now with SW in the market as follows:
1.) Inter island market is losing money because of state quarantine and the inefficiency of rotating a/c out of OAK to operate daily schedule. (Loads are pretty much empty going from island to island).
2.) Even in good times the inter-island market was a 1-1 1/2 airline market at best and was very low on its margins. The market has claimed airlines such Mesa (Go airlines), Aloha, and Mid Pac Airlines over the years. There is NO CHANCE of any growth after this pandemic.
3.)West Coast Market has many if not superior products i.e. (United/Delta/American/Hawaiian) to compete with. Majors have slowly increased capacity from the west coast to Hawaii this past month and will add additional flights the next few months.
4.) The post covid tourist to Hawaii is will be from a higher income bracket and be more inclined to fly a wide bodied AC to the islands. Not sure this type of tourist is gonna want to sit 6 hours on a 737 to Hawaii......Then add the safety issues that the new MAX has had with the crashes and delayed recertification. Not sure people are gonna want to fly on that AC if and when they try to use it in the market.


My problem with comparing past airline failures in the interisland market is that for most of them their entire business model was Hawaii. For WN it complements California, and is also another option for locals who appreciate the competition.

As for the rest, bookings have been strong since the pre-travel testing started, to the point WN felt the need to add additional last minute frequencies from OAK last week to accommodate the demand while maintaining the middle seat cap. They apparently feel bookings are strong enough to reinstate the other California cities at the beginning of next month.

So much doom and gloom on this website regarding the future of Hawaii but all airlines seem to see something people here don’t. I guess we will see how it plays out. You seem skeptical, I’m more optimistic. I’d like to see everyone do well.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.

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