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SXDFC
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Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:01 pm

Does anyone know why they never go in consecutive order with their tail numbers?

Perhaps the A220 could be a good 320 replacement? Or perhaps the mythical “A220-500” would be better suited?
 
marcogr12
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Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:06 pm

Gorgeous looking A223..It's one of most silent aircraft you can fly on..Good for the pax,not good for us avgeeks that love a good roar at takeoff..It's also idea for thin transcons..Air Baltic uses it on the RIX-AUH route which is 6hrs without need for a tech stop and in a 145-pax config.
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:09 pm

TonyClifton wrote:
426Shadow wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
What a tail!

A220 is definitely one of the most comfortable rides you can be on. Can't wait for this to be deployed system wide


Isn't the comfort mostly dependent on the seats and not what plane they reside in? Ok so noise is a factor but the cheap general public doesn't care about that like fanboy Avgeeks.

To a point, but the 2x3 seating is very nice. Good when traveling with someone else, no middle seat worries.


...but the A220 has middle seats - how do you know you will not end up in an window/middle on the three seat side?

The Embraers had no middle seats at all - that is what really equals no middle seat worries.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:14 pm

426Shadow wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
What a tail!

A220 is definitely one of the most comfortable rides you can be on. Can't wait for this to be deployed system wide


Isn't the comfort mostly dependent on the seats and not what plane they reside in? Ok so noise is a factor but the cheap general public doesn't care about that like fanboy Avgeeks.


Only partially. The width of the fuselage dictates how wide the seats can be. A 2+3 configured 737 or A320 is way better, but nobody is going to configure one of those like that. The 737 is just wide enough that you can fit some narrower seats but at 6-abreast. Long story short, the seats in an A220 are wider.

Then you have the lack of a middle seat on one side, which is a massive upside. Not as good as the E-jet, which doesn't have a middle seat, but way better than an A320 or 737. There is also the fuselage curvature, side-panel sculpting and interior fittings (the A220 features those small screens that display a map) that also play a significant role.

I wouldn't downplay the noise as a factor that the general public doesn't care about. My experience is that many commoners really do remember "the big Airbus" and "the new Air Baltic plane", with one of the primary reasons being how quiet they are. The bottom-of-the-barrel cheapos don't care, but they will be queuing up for Ryanair anyway.
 
T4thH
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Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:15 pm

A little bit late...really like the tail, what for a beautiful bird.
 
uconn99
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Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:18 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
Is first class 2-2?


DL is 2x2 on their A220, I doubt B6 will have Mint on their A220's.
 
TonyClifton
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Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:19 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
TonyClifton wrote:
426Shadow wrote:

Isn't the comfort mostly dependent on the seats and not what plane they reside in? Ok so noise is a factor but the cheap general public doesn't care about that like fanboy Avgeeks.

To a point, but the 2x3 seating is very nice. Good when traveling with someone else, no middle seat worries.


...but the A220 has middle seats - how do you know you will not end up in an window/middle on the three seat side?

The Embraers had no middle seats at all - that is what really equals no middle seat worries.

If I’m flying with one other person, we can book together on the 2 side and not subject someone to the middle seat. That isn’t an option on a 3x3.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:34 pm

2x3 seating didn't save MD-80s, DL 717s, F-100s, nor Northwest's Avro RJ85s. I'd be happy to have somebody show compelling evidence that passengers are willing to pay more for 2x3 than 3x3 at the same pitch.
 
Bhoy
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Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:01 pm

dmanonice wrote:
Ziyulu wrote:
How do you tell the difference between a 220 and 320? They look similar.


It's all in the details, shape of the nose, shape of the flight deck windows, shape of the cabin windows, shape of the doors, once you see the details it's dead easy to tell them apart. Plus once you get them on the ramp side by side, they look NOTHING alike (except for the 2 engines, 2 wings and a tail thing)

Yeah, they’re quite obvious side by side.

Image
 
fjhc
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Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:08 pm

The blue and orange on the leading edges of the engines and slats is a bit like that plastic film you get on a new phone- it's there to protect the surface underneath. It's coloured to stand out so that it's removed before first flight.
Does look cool though.
 
T4thH
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Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:09 pm

uconn99 wrote:
Ziyulu wrote:
Is first class 2-2?


DL is 2x2 on their A220, I doubt B6 will have Mint on their A220's.

It will have following configuration: 140 seats
25 Even More Space seats
115 regular economy seats


In comparison to:
AirBaltic and SWISS A220-300s have 145 seats with up to 32″ of pitch
Delta’s A220-300s will have 130 seats, including 12 first class seats, 30 Comfort+ seats, and 88 regular economy seats

https://onemileatatime.com/jetblue-a220/

EDIT: JetBlue A220-300 seating plan is here; so no 2-2. There is no first class.
https://paxex.aero/2019/04/jetblue-a220-interior-layout/
 
9252fly
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Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:31 pm

To the best of my knowledge the single middle economy seat has the most width in that part of the cabin for all current operators a the A220.
 
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tjcab
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Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:36 pm

VSMUT wrote:
426Shadow wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
What a tail!

A220 is definitely one of the most comfortable rides you can be on. Can't wait for this to be deployed system wide


Isn't the comfort mostly dependent on the seats and not what plane they reside in? Ok so noise is a factor but the cheap general public doesn't care about that like fanboy Avgeeks.


Only partially. The width of the fuselage dictates how wide the seats can be. A 2+3 configured 737 or A320 is way better, but nobody is going to configure one of those like that. The 737 is just wide enough that you can fit some narrower seats but at 6-abreast. Long story short, the seats in an A220 are wider.

Then you have the lack of a middle seat on one side, which is a massive upside. Not as good as the E-jet, which doesn't have a middle seat, but way better than an A320 or 737. There is also the fuselage curvature, side-panel sculpting and interior fittings (the A220 features those small screens that display a map) that also play a significant role.

I wouldn't downplay the noise as a factor that the general public doesn't care about. My experience is that many commoners really do remember "the big Airbus" and "the new Air Baltic plane", with one of the primary reasons being how quiet they are. The bottom-of-the-barrel cheapos don't care, but they will be queuing up for Ryanair anyway.


Don't forget that the middle seat is an inch wider. Good balance between the solo/couple traveller with the 2-side and larger groups with the 3-side. simply having middle seat is not an automatic negative point, an certainly does not take away from the other remaining seats in the 3-bank.
 
ucdtim17
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Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:54 pm

SurfandSnow wrote:
Lavdumper wrote:
It really is a gorgeous airplane. While I expect JB to use their A321s with Mint on the hub-to-hub routes like JFK-LAX, I'd like to see JB really leverage the A220 economics and range capability and use them to airports surrounding the hubs like BUR/SNA/ONT in the LA area. Due to various constraints, it was never possible to directly link a business-focused area like HPN to the West Coast with the A320 or E190, but it could be possible with the A220. No doubt JB's route planners are excited about the possibilities with the A220!


Sadly, B6 recently suspended both BUR and ONT (as well as SJC and BWI) through April. I suppose the A220 could help save these stations, in addition to making SNA-East Coast possible for the first time nonstop with a viable payload. I also wonder about the possibility of places like MRY, SBA, SBP and STS from JFK too.


They also dropped OAK and LGB entirely this year. Perhaps it'll change in the future, but for now, at least in California, they're consolidating at SFO and LAX.
 
seat1a
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Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:13 am

If you were to pick a dozen or so routes from LAX that are long and thin, what would they be that would be ideal for the 220? LAX-RDU/RIC?
 
marcogr12
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Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:16 am

marcogr12 wrote:
Gorgeous looking A223..It's one of most silent aircraft you can fly on..Good for the pax,not good for us avgeeks that love a good roar at takeoff..It's also ideal for thin transcons..Air Baltic uses it on the RIX-AUH route which is 6hrs without need for a tech stop and in a 145-pax config.
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
trueblew
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Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:27 am

seat1a wrote:
If you were to pick a dozen or so routes from LAX that are long and thin, what would they be that would be ideal for the 220? LAX-RDU/RIC?


RDU certainly. LAX-BUF would be a good candidate to transition to the 220. LAX-CHS/PBI/TPA/BNA maybe.
 
TMccrury
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Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:11 am

That is a great looking plane. I've flown on the DL version and it is a super nice ride. Quiet and comfortable.
 
amcnd
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Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:30 am

Overhead bins could be bigger.... other then that nice aircraft.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:43 am

TonyClifton wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
TonyClifton wrote:
To a point, but the 2x3 seating is very nice. Good when traveling with someone else, no middle seat worries.


...but the A220 has middle seats - how do you know you will not end up in an window/middle on the three seat side?

The Embraers had no middle seats at all - that is what really equals no middle seat worries.

If I’m flying with one other person, we can book together on the 2 side and not subject someone to the middle seat. That isn’t an option on a 3x3.


JetBlue's cheapest fares don't allow advance seat selection so there is no guarantee (unless you pay more).
 
hbernal1
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Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:51 am

trueblew wrote:
seat1a wrote:
If you were to pick a dozen or so routes from LAX that are long and thin, what would they be that would be ideal for the 220? LAX-RDU/RIC?


RDU certainly. LAX-BUF would be a good candidate to transition to the 220. LAX-CHS/PBI/TPA/BNA maybe.


I can also see 3-4x weekly LAX-CLE/JAX/PIT on the table, but I think B6 will try to keep Mint on PBI. Do you reckon BDL service stays on the A320?
 
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alancostello
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Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:57 am

Delete
Last edited by alancostello on Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
VV
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Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:54 am

When is it going to fly it's first revenue flight with JetBlue and which route?
 
rigo
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Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:18 am

Ziyulu wrote:
How do you tell the difference between a 220 and 320? They look similar.


If there is no reference for the size, look at the nose. Then you can tell them apart instantly.
 
Max Q
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Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:25 am

Great looking aircraft, much better proportioned and aesthetically pleasing than the 787 with its blunt nose and ground hugging low stance on the ground.


The A350 looks good as well until you take into account the strangely out of proportion minuscule looking vertical fin
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
rbavfan
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Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:46 am

Ziyulu wrote:
Is first class 2-2?


Core layout:
5x probably 38" Even More Space seats.
5X 32" Core seats.
 
rbavfan
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Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:54 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
2x3 seating didn't save MD-80s, DL 717s, F-100s, nor Northwest's Avro RJ85s. I'd be happy to have somebody show compelling evidence that passengers are willing to pay more for 2x3 than 3x3 at the same pitch.


Some families will fit well on the 3 seat side & some on the 2 seat side. I have friends with 3 kids. two on them on the 2 seat side& all 3 kids together on the 3 seat side across the isle. Makes them feel safer.
 
avi8
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Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:38 am

Not many are joining the fleet in 2020 and 2021 right? I just wish they would get 20 or so per year to get rid of this E190s, but conserving cash is now more important than ever before.
avi8
 
burnsie28
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Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:04 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
Is first class 2-2?


jetBlue doesn't have a first class, but on Delta's A220's yes, first class is a 2-2 configuration.
 
tphuang
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Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:12 pm

avi8 wrote:
Not many are joining the fleet in 2020 and 2021 right? I just wish they would get 20 or so per year to get rid of this E190s, but conserving cash is now more important than ever before.

Based on latest quarterly report, 1 this year and 7 next year. Things don't pick up until 2023 when the lease starts expiring on the E90s. It would be hard to convince an airline to take on even more aircraft orders in the current cash environment.

VV wrote:
When is it going to fly it's first revenue flight with JetBlue and which route?

I believe they said early next year. Hard to say which route. Pre-pandemic, some of the early suggested routes are BOS-AUS/MSY. I'm really not sure now, since so many of these routes are no longer daily. I'd imagine stuff like BOS-AUS/DFW/IAH/MSY/MSP/DTW/ATL are all in contention for getting earliest A220s.

seat1a wrote:
If you were to pick a dozen or so routes from LAX that are long and thin, what would they be that would be ideal for the 220? LAX-RDU/RIC?


Out of LAX, I'd say RIC/CHS/JAX/HPN all make sense. BUF has enough demand that I think A320 should continue to serve that market. BDL is also large enough where A320 should do well. And then we have some markets that are not thin, but they may want to use A220 to be more competitive against current competition. It's really hard to say without knowing which airline will stick around in these markets. RDU would certainly perform better with A220 vs A320, but so would a lot of routes. I would include BNA/PIT/TPA/RSW all as routes they could add that would do better on A220 vs A320.

Aside from LAX, other recently announced routes like BDL-SFO/LAS and RIC-LAS are all long and thin A220 type of routes. Not sure which of those 3 stick around.

And even out of their east coast focus cities, BOS-PDX/SMF, FLL-PDX/SEA/SAN would all make sense on A220.
 
Ziyulu
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Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:25 pm

It seems on a 220, Y class has more comfort, but F is more narrow. You are still at 2-2 in a more narrow aircraft.
 
TonyClifton
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Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:27 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
TonyClifton wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

...but the A220 has middle seats - how do you know you will not end up in an window/middle on the three seat side?

The Embraers had no middle seats at all - that is what really equals no middle seat worries.

If I’m flying with one other person, we can book together on the 2 side and not subject someone to the middle seat. That isn’t an option on a 3x3.


JetBlue's cheapest fares don't allow advance seat selection so there is no guarantee (unless you pay more).

I didn’t say anything about cheapest fare. All I am referring to is that 2x3 is in many ways preferable to some passengers than 3x3. Not sure what point you’re trying to make.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:16 pm

rbavfan wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
2x3 seating didn't save MD-80s, DL 717s, F-100s, nor Northwest's Avro RJ85s. I'd be happy to have somebody show compelling evidence that passengers are willing to pay more for 2x3 than 3x3 at the same pitch.


Some families will fit well on the 3 seat side & some on the 2 seat side. I have friends with 3 kids. two on them on the 2 seat side& all 3 kids together on the 3 seat side across the isle. Makes them feel safer.

2*3 was competitive on the DC-9. The MD-80 burns about 25% more fuel than a 738 and carries fewer people. A slight preference won't overcome poor economics. A slight preference won't overcome a 700nm range shortage either.

The A220 has great economics. It has outstanding range (more than even the latest A320CEO).

So as a father who often travels in a group if 5, it is an outstanding option. But I won't pay much more than say a -8 MAX to fly the family, other decisions such as direct flights matter.

IMHO, after economics (specifically, cost per passenger), the main issue of the E1-190 for JetBlue was that it couldn't economically serve both coasts. As much as people want JetBlue service in the mid-USA, JetBlue repositions aircraft on TCONs, often redeye TCON flights. Without TCON range, JetBlue was limited in destinations with the E1-190 that:
1. Weren't better served with the A320
2. Were within range of Boston (economics benefits stations with multiple flights per day)
3. Had a high enough fare premium for the E1-190

I like JetBlue's pdf on why the A220:
http://investor.jetblue.com/~/media/Fil ... update.pdf

Main one, a 29% lower DOC per seat. However, look at that range curve in that pdf. I doubt we will see A223 from Boston to Ireland or Scotland, but if that happened, that would be amazing! What matters is lower costs, great comfort, outstanding short field performance, and the range.

I see JetBlue buying many more A220. I look forward to trying it. Alas, I never flew their E190, but I've flown on numerous A320 and a few A321. I live on the West Coast. I bet we'll see JetBlue A220 in numbers on the West Coast by 2024. Sadly, I don't think many earlier. :cry2:


Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
GSPSPOT
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Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:48 pm

Blerg wrote:
That's one gorgeous looking aircraft. B6 is by far my favorite US airline. Hopefully thanks to this plane they can enter new markets especially in the Midwest.

YES! In all these years, I have yet to have the opportunity to step aboard a B6 aircraft.
Great Lakes, great life.
 
travelsonic
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Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:44 pm

Lavdumper wrote:
Due to various constraints, it was never possible to directly link a business-focused area like HPN to the West Coast with the A320 or E190, but it could be possible with the A220. No doubt JB's route planners are excited about the possibilities with the A220!


Actually went into this thread with HPN in thought - wonder what opportunities the A220 would give jetBlue not just at HPN, but at other airports with similar situations (noise, neighbor relations, size, etc).

Though part of me doesn't see much hope in quieter airplanes becoming more prolific allowing such places to become more flexible. In the case of HPN, people in the area seem to hyper-focus on commercial flights in/out of the airport when bitching about noise, despite the fact that every time I've heard a plane flying in or out of there after curfew, it's always been business jets, private aircraft and the like.
Last edited by travelsonic on Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
nine4nine
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Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:45 pm

GSPSPOT wrote:
Blerg wrote:
That's one gorgeous looking aircraft. B6 is by far my favorite US airline. Hopefully thanks to this plane they can enter new markets especially in the Midwest.

YES! In all these years, I have yet to have the opportunity to step aboard a B6 aircraft.



You’re missing out. Fabulous experience, great service, excellent product all around. Hope you can Experience it one of these days.
717, 727-100, 727-200, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 742, 748, 752, 753, 762, 763, 772, 77W, 787-10, DC9, MD80/88/90, DC10, 319, 220-300, 320, 321, 321n, 332, 333, CS100, CRJ200, Q400, E175, E190, ERJ145, EMB120
 
Prost
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Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:12 pm

jetBlue does a great job of making a white livery interesting.
 
NASBWI
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Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:32 pm

I might be in a minority here, but while I LOVE the new tail designs and the billboard titles, I kinda wish that they had stuck with the silver “jet” in jetBlue as well as keeping the thin light blue cheatline over the navy underside. Times must change, and overall, their new tailfins are far more eye catching than what’s been previously introduced. Great job!
Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
 
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res77W
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Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:52 pm

NASBWI wrote:
I might be in a minority here, but while I LOVE the new tail designs and the billboard titles, I kinda wish that they had stuck with the silver “jet” in jetBlue as well as keeping the thin light blue cheatline over the navy underside. Times must change, and overall, their new tailfins are far more eye catching than what’s been previously introduced. Great job!


Agreed. I'm just glad jetBlue is returning to all blue tailfins. I understand the green in "mint" but I was never a fan of the newer tails with the orange, or the one with the patch of white at the top. I loved the original four tails they had.

-Rowen
 
dstblj52
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Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Wed Oct 21, 2020 6:27 am

tjcab wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
426Shadow wrote:

Isn't the comfort mostly dependent on the seats and not what plane they reside in? Ok so noise is a factor but the cheap general public doesn't care about that like fanboy Avgeeks.


Only partially. The width of the fuselage dictates how wide the seats can be. A 2+3 configured 737 or A320 is way better, but nobody is going to configure one of those like that. The 737 is just wide enough that you can fit some narrower seats but at 6-abreast. Long story short, the seats in an A220 are wider.

Then you have the lack of a middle seat on one side, which is a massive upside. Not as good as the E-jet, which doesn't have a middle seat, but way better than an A320 or 737. There is also the fuselage curvature, side-panel sculpting and interior fittings (the A220 features those small screens that display a map) that also play a significant role.

I wouldn't downplay the noise as a factor that the general public doesn't care about. My experience is that many commoners really do remember "the big Airbus" and "the new Air Baltic plane", with one of the primary reasons being how quiet they are. The bottom-of-the-barrel cheapos don't care, but they will be queuing up for Ryanair anyway.


Don't forget that the middle seat is an inch wider. Good balance between the solo/couple traveller with the 2-side and larger groups with the 3-side. simply having middle seat is not an automatic negative point, an certainly does not take away from the other remaining seats in the 3-bank.

Minor correct thats an outfitting decision and very few airlines have actually kept the slightly large middle seats as it complicates supply chains and creates additional headaches
 
Alias1024
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Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:55 pm

Everyone is focused on new routes, but at least initially with the small fleet the first couple years it may just be more about subbing them into places where the economics make sense. They have several long/thin routes from JFK that have been beyond E190 range but would benefit from a smaller and more economical option part of the year. Think JFK-RNO/ABQ in the winter. BZN in the shoulder seasons. JFK/BOS-PSP in the summer. Perhaps some off season JFK-Caribbean routes.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:44 pm

Alias1024 wrote:
Everyone is focused on new routes, but at least initially with the small fleet the first couple years it may just be more about subbing them into places where the economics make sense. They have several long/thin routes from JFK that have been beyond E190 range but would benefit from a smaller and more economical option part of the year. Think JFK-RNO/ABQ in the winter. BZN in the shoulder seasons. JFK/BOS-PSP in the summer. Perhaps some off season JFK-Caribbean routes.

The longest E190 routes should be the first to go. IMHO, in this economy, the 30 owned E190s will be replaced quickly (there isn't much financial incentive not to just fly the leased E190s). In fact, I'm surprised to see all 60 E-190s still at JetBlue on airfleets (at least still 60 today):
https://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Jet ... e-e190.htm

Plane economics are worst at the margins. e.g., JFK-AUS (1322nm) or BOS-AUS (even more at 1476nm) I would expect to pull in the E-190 to exclusively flights whose great circle distance was under 1100nm. Then I agree in trimming long-thin. But I do expect some new. e.g., split some JFK-XXX flights to add EWR.

I would also expect some growth after the first 15 are delivered on the West Coast. Maybe after 20 are delivered. For example, SFO-AUS or some other connections to make it so customers at the mid-points have more reason to buy JetBlue tickets. Or expand AUS more to Florida (I'm just picking AUS as I see it as a prime market for JetBlue to expand).

So expect a mix of replacement of E190/A320.

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
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ArcticSEA
Posts: 171
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:04 pm

Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:50 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
How do you tell the difference between a 220 and 320? They look similar.

You can look at it.
 
Alias1024
Posts: 2692
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:13 am

Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:24 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Alias1024 wrote:
Everyone is focused on new routes, but at least initially with the small fleet the first couple years it may just be more about subbing them into places where the economics make sense. They have several long/thin routes from JFK that have been beyond E190 range but would benefit from a smaller and more economical option part of the year. Think JFK-RNO/ABQ in the winter. BZN in the shoulder seasons. JFK/BOS-PSP in the summer. Perhaps some off season JFK-Caribbean routes.

The longest E190 routes should be the first to go. IMHO, in this economy, the 30 owned E190s will be replaced quickly (there isn't much financial incentive not to just fly the leased E190s). In fact, I'm surprised to see all 60 E-190s still at JetBlue on airfleets (at least still 60 today):
https://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Jet ... e-e190.htm

Plane economics are worst at the margins. e.g., JFK-AUS (1322nm) or BOS-AUS (even more at 1476nm) I would expect to pull in the E-190 to exclusively flights whose great circle distance was under 1100nm. Then I agree in trimming long-thin. But I do expect some new. e.g., split some JFK-XXX flights to add EWR.

I would also expect some growth after the first 15 are delivered on the West Coast. Maybe after 20 are delivered. For example, SFO-AUS or some other connections to make it so customers at the mid-points have more reason to buy JetBlue tickets. Or expand AUS more to Florida (I'm just picking AUS as I see it as a prime market for JetBlue to expand).

So expect a mix of replacement of E190/A320.

Lightsaber


Good point about the longest E190 routes. Those seem like prime replacement opportunities as well. I also agree that there will be some connecting the dots with the west coast but like you I don't expect it immediately. Especially not in this environment where every airline is just trying to keep their head above water.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
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TheLunchbox
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:31 pm

Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:30 pm

ArcticSEA wrote:
Ziyulu wrote:
How do you tell the difference between a 220 and 320? They look similar.

You can look at it.


Completely unnecessary comment.
 
User avatar
ArcticSEA
Posts: 171
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:04 pm

Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:42 pm

They look literally nothing alike, aside from both having an Airbus sticker on the side.
It's like saying the 787 and 737 look alike. They don't. At all.
 
JoseSalazar
Posts: 278
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:18 am

Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:43 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Alias1024 wrote:
Everyone is focused on new routes, but at least initially with the small fleet the first couple years it may just be more about subbing them into places where the economics make sense. They have several long/thin routes from JFK that have been beyond E190 range but would benefit from a smaller and more economical option part of the year. Think JFK-RNO/ABQ in the winter. BZN in the shoulder seasons. JFK/BOS-PSP in the summer. Perhaps some off season JFK-Caribbean routes.

The longest E190 routes should be the first to go. IMHO, in this economy, the 30 owned E190s will be replaced quickly (there isn't much financial incentive not to just fly the leased E190s). In fact, I'm surprised to see all 60 E-190s still at JetBlue on airfleets (at least still 60 today):
https://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Jet ... e-e190.htm

Plane economics are worst at the margins. e.g., JFK-AUS (1322nm) or BOS-AUS (even more at 1476nm) I would expect to pull in the E-190 to exclusively flights whose great circle distance was under 1100nm. Then I agree in trimming long-thin. But I do expect some new. e.g., split some JFK-XXX flights to add EWR.

I would also expect some growth after the first 15 are delivered on the West Coast. Maybe after 20 are delivered. For example, SFO-AUS or some other connections to make it so customers at the mid-points have more reason to buy JetBlue tickets. Or expand AUS more to Florida (I'm just picking AUS as I see it as a prime market for JetBlue to expand).

So expect a mix of replacement of E190/A320.

Lightsaber


Regarding parking the owned E190s, I have heard they were unable to get out of the mx contracts, so it didn’t make sense to park them, because they’d be paying on them anyway, even if they weren’t flown. I have no idea when those contracts are up, the details of them, or what the current plan is. There are still more than 30 in storage, and the block hours are way down on them month to month. I think when the next pilot bid comes out in the next month or so, that will give a good indication of their planned E190 block hours for 2021.
 
CaptCoolHand
Posts: 99
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:24 pm

Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:30 pm

ArcticSEA wrote:
Ziyulu wrote:
How do you tell the difference between a 220 and 320? They look similar.

You can look at it.


This is funny.
I’ve been restraining from commenting on this.

How do you tell the difference between an F15 and a F18? A 777 and a 330? A321 and a 757?

Well, they’re very different if you look.
But we’re definitely airplane geeeks.

Can someone fix my computer please? I’ve got this spiny rainbow thingy.
 
IdlewildJFK
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:25 pm

Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:32 pm

As far as the “first route” of the first one delivered, I’d say if I was in charge I’d put it on a focus city to focus city route for the first month. Why? 1, keeps all the above the wing, below the wing, tech ops - all B6 Crewmembers. So you can make sure you have a core team trained on it. You don’t want to be contracting out these functions in the first few weeks as you would in a lot of the stations it will eventually go to. 2, if you do have reliability issues, you are in a focus city with (especially in Covid times) spare AC on the other fleets with flight and inflight reserves to quickly recover with an upgrade/downgrade to protect the flight. Or at least move customers to other direct or connecting flights.

So if BOS is actually going to be the pilot base, that’s one of the two city pairs. Then I’d say make FLL the other. First week or 2, one turn BOS FLL BOS. Then step that up to 2 turns a day in weeks 3-4. Park it in BOS each night since their techs will be the experts on the AC for a wile (plus will need to train more people on it).

As a second AC joins the fleet - maybe a BOS JFK MCO and back to get more of the focus cities some exposure. As the 3rd comes on, yeah then start sending it elsewhere.

I could be wrong but kid gloves seems like a good way to handle the initial flying this does.
 
User avatar
TheLunchbox
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:31 pm

Re: Jetblue's first A220 rolls out

Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:59 am

ArcticSEA wrote:
They look literally nothing alike, aside from both having an Airbus sticker on the side.
It's like saying the 787 and 737 look alike. They don't. At all.


Obvious to us, not to the untrained eye (99% of everyone else). Don't be a jerk about it.

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