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c933103
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Updated: ANA to retire 35 aircraft in 2020

Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:26 am

According to Kyodo News: https://this.kiji.is/691551063584064609 ... 3097731077
It say ANA currently own about 60 large aircrafts mainly for international long haul, of which about 25-30 of them will be removed.

However, ANA have said that https://ssl4.eir-parts.net/doc/9202/tdn ... 517/00.pdf this information is not officially announced by them, woth their Q2 result set to be announce on Octobwer 27.

----

Personal note and comment: https://flyteam.jp/news/article/128803 Since ANA currently have 2×A380, 35×777-300, and 19×777-200, which already come close to the reported nuber of 60, and the number of their other widebodies far exceed this numner, I guess the "large aircraft" rwferred to by this report is exclusively referring to 777 and A380 but not other smaller aircraft.
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cedarjet
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:33 am

I don’t think they’re the only ones either
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:03 pm

Maybe "owns" refers to actually owned in their books as opposed to leased?
 
raylee67
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:13 pm

c933103 wrote:
It say ANA currently own about 60 large aircrafts mainly for international long haul, of which about 25-30 of them will be removed.

Personal note and comment: https://flyteam.jp/news/article/128803 Since ANA currently have 2×A380, 35×777-300, and 19×777-200, which already come close to the reported nuber of 60, and the number of their other widebodies far exceed this numner, I guess the "large aircraft" rwferred to by this report is exclusively referring to 777 and A380 but not other smaller aircraft.


If ANA is really only focusing on "international long haul" in this fleet reduction, then their 777-200, 777-200ER and 777-300 are not included.

They currently have 19 x 777-200/-200ER but all are configured for domestic flights, with up to 405 seats. They do not even fly international to China or Korea with those planes, let alone long haul. The 7 777-300 are also domestic only.

So that leaves 28 x 777-300ER and 2 x A380 from your list. What would make up the remaining 30 "large aircraft" that are "international long haul" would be the 787-8 and 787-9. While they have 72 x 787s in total now, many of those are also configured for domestic flights only. Actually only 19 x 787-8 and 31 x 787-9 are international. 28 of the 31 787-9 are operated by a low-cost subsidiary "Air Japan" (but in full ANA livery so many people don't know about this "Air Japan" thing). Those planes are typically used in routes to Hawaii or Asia (e.g. HKG, SIN, PEK, etc.), which are mostly not long haul.

So my guess would be 28 x 777-300ER, 2 x A380, 19 x 787-8 and some of the 31 x 787-9 that makes up the list. Again, that's assuming that "international long haul" comment was correct.

From that list, I think the 777-300ER would be the main casualty here.

First, while demand for long haul travel recovers, it will come back slowly. It is easier to fill a 788/789 than a 77W. Second, a 788/789 is more efficient to fly than a 77W, so if I only have 200 pax on LAX-NRT, I definitely would fly a 789, not a 77W. Basically, before demand fully (or at least 80%) recovers on long haul routes, ANA doesn't need any 77W. 788/789 can fly all the routes that were served with a 77W before.

What happens if ANA gets rid of the 77W and demand recovers in 2023/2024 (as most airlines are expecting now)? Don't forget ANA has 20x 777-9 on order. The time that demands recover will actually coincide with 779 delivery. So ANA can just get the capacity back at that time.
319/20/21 332/33 342/43/45 359/51 388 707 717 732/36/3G/38/39 74R/42/43/44/4E/48 757 762/63 772/7L/73/7W 788/89 D10 M80 135/40/45 175/90 DH1/4 CRJ/R7 L10
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:16 pm

c933103 wrote:
I guess the "large aircraft" rwferred to by this report is exclusively referring to 777 and A380 but not other smaller aircraft.


Hmm, I'm not sure I completely agree. In the first link they also say aircraft used for international long-haul flights, so that would include a fair number of 787s and exclude a number of domestic 777s.

IMO, we could see a number of older 777s (they still have 14 -200As and -300As) and the 767-300ER fleet withdrawn, with younger 777s and 787s filling the gap, resulting in a halving of the international fleet. The 767 looks like an obvious choice to cut anyway, since many are young and the cargo conversion market for that type is strong.
 
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:59 pm

I disagree on the B777-300ER withdrawn. Maybe B777-300A but not B777-300ER. There is still a chance that a vaccine to be ready by Spring 2021 and still a chance of Tokyo Olympic happening in 2021 summer/autumn. It would be an unwise decision to withdrawn the B777-300ER while there are other older aircrafts in fleet. Since ANA is building an international terminal annex to its domestic terminal in HND, a versatile B777-300ER that can be used for long haul could be put on some of the domestic mission between flights if ANA wanted to. It is just a personal opinion of mine, so don't shoot. But I think B777-300ER is a great aircraft and ANA can take advantage of the fleet.
 
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:15 pm

raylee67 wrote:
First, while demand for long haul travel recovers, it will come back slowly. It is easier to fill a 788/789 than a 77W. Second, a 788/789 is more efficient to fly than a 77W, so if I only have 200 pax on LAX-NRT, I definitely would fly a 789, not a 77W. Basically, before demand fully (or at least 80%) recovers on long haul routes, ANA doesn't need any 77W. 788/789 can fly all the routes that were served with a 77W before.

What happens if ANA gets rid of the 77W and demand recovers in 2023/2024 (as most airlines are expecting now)? Don't forget ANA has 20x 777-9 on order. The time that demands recover will actually coincide with 779 delivery. So ANA can just get the capacity back at that time.


That first paragraph was really good. I believe that's exactly what operators of both 777 and 787 fleets are concluding right now. The 787 can get around 100% of the revenue that a 777 can get at this time, and for the foreseeable future (5 years?). This means, surprisingly, that the 777 has no purpose whatsoever for the next 5 years, if you also have 787s. The facts do support what you are saying. Global discretionary travel will take a long pause. Minimum 5 years IMO, and for many carriers, it will be more profitable to release the 777 fleet and keep 787 or A350 fleet during that pause.

Alternatively, for carriers that do not plan daily flights anymore, 777 might be a lower utilized, cheap option. Both ideas point to severe reduction in wide body demand for years to come.
 
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:23 pm

chonetsao wrote:
I disagree on the B777-300ER withdrawn. Maybe B777-300A but not B777-300ER. There is still a chance that a vaccine to be ready by Spring 2021 and still a chance of Tokyo Olympic happening in 2021 summer/autumn. It would be an unwise decision to withdrawn the B777-300ER while there are other older aircrafts in fleet. Since ANA is building an international terminal annex to its domestic terminal in HND, a versatile B777-300ER that can be used for long haul could be put on some of the domestic mission between flights if ANA wanted to. It is just a personal opinion of mine, so don't shoot. But I think B777-300ER is a great aircraft and ANA can take advantage of the fleet.


It is still to be seen whether the Olympics in Tokyo will take place. If so, venue attendance will be restricted and most of attendees will be locals and from nearby countries such as Korea, China, Aus/NZ. I don't see tons of americans and europeans willing to travel to Japan as soon as next summer for the olympics, neither I see japanese authorities encouraging americans and europeans to go to the Olympics. Vaccine may be ready in Spring 2021 but availability to most of global population is a different thing.

NH 77Ws are very low density and giving the fact that long haul traffic is going to take much longer to be back to pre-covid levels and more so long haul business traffic, reducing their long haul fleet seems a wise decision.
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:49 pm

chonetsao wrote:
I disagree on the B777-300ER withdrawn. Maybe B777-300A but not B777-300ER. There is still a chance that a vaccine to be ready by Spring 2021 and still a chance of Tokyo Olympic happening in 2021 summer/autumn. It would be an unwise decision to withdrawn the B777-300ER while there are other older aircrafts in fleet. Since ANA is building an international terminal annex to its domestic terminal in HND, a versatile B777-300ER that can be used for long haul could be put on some of the domestic mission between flights if ANA wanted to. It is just a personal opinion of mine, so don't shoot. But I think B777-300ER is a great aircraft and ANA can take advantage of the fleet.

ANA's 77W fleet is far too premium-heavy to be used on domestic runs between any long-hauls.
 
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:01 pm

The Olympics will NOT be able to bring masses of international visitors to Japan. If any at all it will be nearby nations who got Covid under control (think China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, Vietnam, Thailand, Australia, New Zealand), not Europe or the US. So basically short to medium-haul.
 
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:06 pm

TC957 wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
I disagree on the B777-300ER withdrawn. Maybe B777-300A but not B777-300ER. There is still a chance that a vaccine to be ready by Spring 2021 and still a chance of Tokyo Olympic happening in 2021 summer/autumn. It would be an unwise decision to withdrawn the B777-300ER while there are other older aircrafts in fleet. Since ANA is building an international terminal annex to its domestic terminal in HND, a versatile B777-300ER that can be used for long haul could be put on some of the domestic mission between flights if ANA wanted to. It is just a personal opinion of mine, so don't shoot. But I think B777-300ER is a great aircraft and ANA can take advantage of the fleet.

ANA's 77W fleet is far too premium-heavy to be used on domestic runs between any long-hauls.


ANA's 777 fleet is hardly young either. Several of their 77Ws are up around 15 - 16 years of age. Sadly, I wouldn't be surprised to see some of these birds on the casualty list - but remember that NH is also a customer for the 777-9X so I imagine more of a dovetail situation than complete withdrawal on this front. Maybe more to do with the 772 than the 77W....
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:09 pm

With a large bunch of 788/78X was and will be delivered to NH, I don't see a bright future for the B763, and neither the B772 (both A and ER), the B773A, and perhaps the 73G should be considered too.
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:31 pm

c933103 wrote:
own about 60 large aircrafts

777 and A380 but not other smaller aircraft.


It's always "aircraft", whether it is one aircraft, 25 aircraft, or 900 aircraft. You use it in the correct way at the end of your post, but not in the title or that other line. Just a small pointer, so many aviation fans get it wrong as it's one of those english words like sheep, where the singular is the plural :) One sheep, two sheep, 50 sheep - same with aircraft. No big deal, just being helpful :) It was one of the first things our lecturer in aviation told us on the first day, due to the amount of students from abroad in the class.
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:44 pm

NZ321 wrote:
ANA's 777 fleet is hardly young either. Several of their 77Ws are up around 15 - 16 years of age. Sadly, I wouldn't be surprised to see some of these birds on the casualty list - but remember that NH is also a customer for the 777-9X so I imagine more of a dovetail situation than complete withdrawal on this front. Maybe more to do with the 772 than the 77W....


According to planespotters.net the average age of the 772s is 15.6 years.

The 77Ws range from 1-16 years with an average of 9.7 years.
 
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:02 pm

Meanwhile ANA's 3rd A380 is flying customer acceptance tests:
https://twitter.com/Frenchpainter/statu ... 1522515968
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:07 pm

According to NHK, ANA will withdraw about 30 aircrafts, mostly 777s. The NHK article says nothing about "international large aircraft", so I assume this will include all 772s (8 777-200 and 12 777-200ER) and all 7 domestic 773s. I think it is unlikely that they will remove many 77Ws, some of the older ones might leave though. It will be interesting to see what will happen to the A380s as well.

Also, ANA will consolidate its international operations at HND for the foreseeable future. This means a huge loss for KIX, NGO and especially NRT.
https://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20201021/k10012674531000.html
 
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:08 pm

ClassicLover wrote:
c933103 wrote:
own about 60 large aircrafts

777 and A380 but not other smaller aircraft.


It's always "aircraft", whether it is one aircraft, 25 aircraft, or 900 aircraft. You use it in the correct way at the end of your post, but not in the title or that other line. Just a small pointer, so many aviation fans get it wrong as it's one of those english words like sheep, where the singular is the plural :) One sheep, two sheep, 50 sheep - same with aircraft. No big deal, just being helpful :) It was one of the first things our lecturer in aviation told us on the first day, due to the amount of students from abroad in the class.


Those are referred to as 'Non-Count Nouns'.. Aircraft, Sheep, Snow, Ice, Milk,

Regardless of configuration (domestic vs international) ... wouldn't ANA keep all the newer 787-9 and get rid of the older 777-200s?.... cheaper to maintain, more fuel efficient...
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:12 pm

JA786A wrote:
Also, ANA will consolidate its international operations at HND for the foreseeable future. This means a huge loss for KIX, NGO and especially NRT.
https://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20201021/k10012674531000.html

Seems this would ground the A380s (if they are not already?) -- HND does not accept A380s last time I checked.
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:33 pm

Revelation wrote:
JA786A wrote:
Also, ANA will consolidate its international operations at HND for the foreseeable future. This means a huge loss for KIX, NGO and especially NRT.
https://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20201021/k10012674531000.html

Seems this would ground the A380s (if they are not already?) -- HND does not accept A380s last time I checked.

https://travel.watch.impress.co.jp/docs ... 82557.html
ANA is now operating flight to nowhere with their A380.
With the latest flight being overbooked 110 times I think they can keep running those A380 for a good while. (They use lucky draw system to pick who can ride when too many reserved)
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:52 pm

c933103 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
JA786A wrote:
Also, ANA will consolidate its international operations at HND for the foreseeable future. This means a huge loss for KIX, NGO and especially NRT.
https://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20201021/k10012674531000.html

Seems this would ground the A380s (if they are not already?) -- HND does not accept A380s last time I checked.

https://travel.watch.impress.co.jp/docs ... 82557.html
ANA is now operating flight to nowhere with their A380.
With the latest flight being overbooked 110 times I think they can keep running those A380 for a good while. (They use lucky draw system to pick who can ride when too many reserved)

Interesting.

https://www.businesstraveller.com/busin ... rbus-a380/ is an English language article on the event.

Seems they limited passenger count to 300 presumably to provide some social distancing.

Also seems they will do another similar sightseeing flight a month from now.

So one sightseeing trip with 300 pax per month across three A380s is pretty poor utilization.

The article also says the NRT-HNL flights have been suspended since March 25th.

Now that ANA is focusing on HND, it seems it will be a while before they can resume the NRT A380 flights.

It looks like Hawaii is trying to reopen, but the systems it put in place are struggling:

https://www.khon2.com/coronavirus/trave ... uarantine/
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:57 pm

c933103 wrote:
ANA is now operating flight to nowhere with their A380. With the latest flight being overbooked 110 times I think they can keep running those A380 for a good while.


I am assuming ANA is not operating flights to Hawaii (which is what the A380s were tasked) with the quarantine restrictions so fortunate they are popular just for tooling around Tokyo Bay.
 
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:01 pm

Stitch wrote:
c933103 wrote:
ANA is now operating flight to nowhere with their A380. With the latest flight being overbooked 110 times I think they can keep running those A380 for a good while.


I am assuming ANA is not operating flights to Hawaii (which is what the A380s were tasked) with the quarantine restrictions so fortunate they are popular just for tooling around Tokyo Bay.


Revelation wrote:
The article also says the NRT-HNL flights have been suspended since March 25th.

Now that ANA is focusing on HND, it seems it will be a while before they can resume the NRT A380 flights.

It looks like Hawaii is trying to reopen, but the systems it put in place are struggling:

https://www.khon2.com/coronavirus/trave ... uarantine/

ANA's NRT-HNL flight have already resumed.
However it's only 2/monthly and first flight only carried 27 passngers.
It's operated with a 787.
https://www.aviationwire.jp/archives/212110
But seems like in November it will go to Haneda
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:09 pm

c933103 wrote:
ANA's NRT-HNL flight have already resumed.
However it's only 2/monthly and first flight only carried 27 passngers.
It's operated with a 787.
https://www.aviationwire.jp/archives/212110
But seems like in November it will go to Haneda

Thanks for the update.

Hopefully HI will get its systems issues fixed and more pax will chose to go there.

Regardless it seems the three A380s are out of a job, other than sightseeing flights.
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:10 pm

Revelation wrote:
Interesting.

https://www.businesstraveller.com/busin ... rbus-a380/ is an English language article on the event.

Seems they limited passenger count to 300 presumably to provide some social distancing.

Also seems they will do another similar sightseeing flight a month from now.

So one sightseeing trip with 300 pax per month across three A380s is pretty poor utilization.

Kn the other hand JAL is planninh some "Hawaii on the sky" flights to nowhere. Is it just a coincidence with ANA's Flying HONU?
https://www.aviationwire.jp/archives/213116

It looks like Hawaii is trying to reopen, but the systems it put in place are struggling:

https://www.khon2.com/coronavirus/trave ... uarantine/

Even if Hawaii open up, according to my understanding travellers would still need to quarantine themselves after arriving Japan?
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Wed Oct 21, 2020 6:45 pm

Japanese domestic traffic is recovering with seat volume reaching almost 70% of 2019. International traffic however is hovering around only 5%.

The biggest cuts obviously must be in the international arena where demand recovery might be years away, let alone profitability likely even more elusive.
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:35 pm

c933103 wrote:
Even if Hawaii open up, according to my understanding travellers would still need to quarantine themselves after arriving Japan?

Yes, travel options are very limited, quarantine is needed. Am wondering why NH would still plan to operate a 787 HND-HNL.

Ref: https://www.mofa.go.jp/ca/cp/page22e_000925.html
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eamondzhang
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:49 pm

raylee67 wrote:
So that leaves 28 x 777-300ER and 2 x A380 from your list. What would make up the remaining 30 "large aircraft" that are "international long haul" would be the 787-8 and 787-9. While they have 72 x 787s in total now, many of those are also configured for domestic flights only. Actually only 19 x 787-8 and 31 x 787-9 are international. 28 of the 31 787-9 are operated by a low-cost subsidiary "Air Japan" (but in full ANA livery so many people don't know about this "Air Japan" thing). Those planes are typically used in routes to Hawaii or Asia (e.g. HKG, SIN, PEK, etc.), which are mostly not long haul.
.

Air Japan is only a brand with NO dedicated passenger aircraft associated. Planes rotate between ANA on one flight and AJX on the other (and vice versa).

AJX is currently in suspension of operation with all flights (cargo and pax) handled by ANA parent company.

JA786A wrote:
According to NHK, ANA will withdraw about 30 aircrafts, mostly 777s. The NHK article says nothing about "international large aircraft", so I assume this will include all 772s (8 777-200 and 12 777-200ER) and all 7 domestic 773s. I think it is unlikely that they will remove many 77Ws, some of the older ones might leave though. It will be interesting to see what will happen to the A380s as well.

Also, ANA will consolidate its international operations at HND for the foreseeable future. This means a huge loss for KIX, NGO and especially NRT.
https://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20201021/k10012674531000.html

I'll take the last sentence as a grain of salt right now with quite a few flights were required to go to NRT by government agencies.

Michael
 
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:52 pm

TC957 wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
I disagree on the B777-300ER withdrawn. Maybe B777-300A but not B777-300ER. There is still a chance that a vaccine to be ready by Spring 2021 and still a chance of Tokyo Olympic happening in 2021 summer/autumn. It would be an unwise decision to withdrawn the B777-300ER while there are other older aircrafts in fleet. Since ANA is building an international terminal annex to its domestic terminal in HND, a versatile B777-300ER that can be used for long haul could be put on some of the domestic mission between flights if ANA wanted to. It is just a personal opinion of mine, so don't shoot. But I think B777-300ER is a great aircraft and ANA can take advantage of the fleet.

ANA's 77W fleet is far too premium-heavy to be used on domestic runs between any long-hauls.

Yet pre-pandemic it was a daily sight on NRT-ITM although I know it's more for connecting traffic than anything.

But I do agree that they don't seem to want 77W domestically - we always thought the last 6 orders were to replace 777-300s

Michael
 
Tokyo777
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:14 am

When discussing ANA's non-77Ws (777-200A, 777-200ER, 777-300A), one needs to consider cycles. Consider that these birds fly an average of 5-6 cycles a day for 15-20 years and it's easy to understand why some are on their way out. The 77W's probably only average 1.5 cycles/day (not to mention being younger as well).
 
Strato2
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:09 am

c933103 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
JA786A wrote:
Also, ANA will consolidate its international operations at HND for the foreseeable future. This means a huge loss for KIX, NGO and especially NRT.
https://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20201021/k10012674531000.html

Seems this would ground the A380s (if they are not already?) -- HND does not accept A380s last time I checked.

https://travel.watch.impress.co.jp/docs ... 82557.html
ANA is now operating flight to nowhere with their A380.
With the latest flight being overbooked 110 times I think they can keep running those A380 for a good while. (They use lucky draw system to pick who can ride when too many reserved)


Good thing they have an aircraft that attracts passengers. Try the same with 77W and not many would be interested.
 
Strato2
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:11 am

Good luck for Boeing trying to place those 20 VLA's at ANA in the near future. As the 777X is already over a year late maybe they can cancel for free.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:45 pm

Strato2 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Seems this would ground the A380s (if they are not already?) -- HND does not accept A380s last time I checked.

https://travel.watch.impress.co.jp/docs ... 82557.html
ANA is now operating flight to nowhere with their A380.
With the latest flight being overbooked 110 times I think they can keep running those A380 for a good while. (They use lucky draw system to pick who can ride when too many reserved)

Good thing they have an aircraft that attracts passengers. Try the same with 77W and not many would be interested.

Yeah, they've really set themselves up for success with that one sightseeing flight a month.
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Ishrion
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:04 am

Just in:

ANA will retire a total of 35 aircraft in 2020, an addition of 28 aircraft from its initial plan of seven. Out of the 35 aircrafts to be retired, 22 are the Boeing-777 models. The delayed delivery is for one Boeing-777 and one A380 aircraft, resulting in a reduction of 24 large-sized aircrafts compared to the initial plan for the end of FY2020


Unclear which 777 variants.

https://www.anahd.co.jp/group/en/pr/pdf/20201027-2.pdf
 
VSMUT
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:23 am

Ishrion wrote:
Just in:

ANA will retire a total of 35 aircraft in 2020, an addition of 28 aircraft from its initial plan of seven. Out of the 35 aircrafts to be retired, 22 are the Boeing-777 models. The delayed delivery is for one Boeing-777 and one A380 aircraft, resulting in a reduction of 24 large-sized aircrafts compared to the initial plan for the end of FY2020


Unclear which 777 variants.

https://www.anahd.co.jp/group/en/pr/pdf/20201027-2.pdf


Just speculation on my part, but 22 would amount to all 777-200A, all 777-300A and all the 777-200ER except the 5 latest examples delivered in 2012 and 2013. I don't know about the remaining 13, maybe the 12 old domestic 767s?
 
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Tabito
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:17 am

Additional retirement in FY2020
777-300ER : 13
777-300 : 2
777-200ER/200 : 7
767-300ER/300 : 5
737-700 : 1
Total 28
 
Ishrion
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:45 am

Tabito wrote:
Additional retirement in FY2020
777-300ER : 13
777-300 : 2
777-200ER/200 : 7
767-300ER/300 : 5
737-700 : 1
Total 28


Is there any source on that? Can’t seem to find anything with a breakdown of each variant being retired.
 
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Tabito
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:59 am

Ishrion wrote:
Is there any source on that? Can’t seem to find anything with a breakdown of each variant being retired.


In Japanese
https://www.aviationwire.jp/archives/213804
 
LifelinerOne
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:44 pm

Also interesting in this Japanese article is the announcement that the airline has deferred the arrival of their 1st B777-9 with 2 years to 2023.
Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
 
Capricorn
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:51 pm

And in addition ANA wants to create a new long haul LCC per Link below. Kind of interesting that it should be a separate entity from Peach as Peach is, unlike Jetstar Japan, wholly owned by ANA. (My guess is that this is a response to Zipair). But with many long haul LCCs in Asia already in existence I don't know if there is enough of the market left for two new entrants.

Source
https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... 87-airline
 
raylee67
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:09 pm

The majority of retirement being variants of 777 is not exactly a surprise.

LifelinerOne wrote:
Also interesting in this Japanese article is the announcement that the airline has deferred the arrival of their 1st B777-9 with 2 years to 2023.

2023 is quite optimistic actually.
319/20/21 332/33 342/43/45 359/51 388 707 717 732/36/3G/38/39 74R/42/43/44/4E/48 757 762/63 772/7L/73/7W 788/89 D10 M80 135/40/45 175/90 DH1/4 CRJ/R7 L10
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mxaxai
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:35 pm

Tabito wrote:
Additional retirement in FY2020
777-300ER : 13
777-300 : 2
777-200ER/200 : 7
767-300ER/300 : 5
737-700 : 1
Total 28

hmm so they want to keep the A380?
 
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Polot
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:54 pm

mxaxai wrote:
Tabito wrote:
Additional retirement in FY2020
777-300ER : 13
777-300 : 2
777-200ER/200 : 7
767-300ER/300 : 5
737-700 : 1
Total 28

hmm so they want to keep the A380?

One of the A380s hasn’t even been delivered yet, so ANA would have to get out of that order first. It doesn’t make any financial sense to retire those planes now, they have only been in the fleet for 1-1.5 years.
 
randomdude83
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:56 pm

mxaxai wrote:
Tabito wrote:
Additional retirement in FY2020
777-300ER : 13
777-300 : 2
777-200ER/200 : 7
767-300ER/300 : 5
737-700 : 1
Total 28

hmm so they want to keep the A380?


They just got them...spent millions of dollars on them...and you want to retire them?

It won’t cost them that much to operate three a380s either way.
 
Capricorn
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:25 pm

I can't see a subfleet consisting of only 3 planes as being remotely economical. I get why ANA bought the A380, that they never really wanted them and they only bought them as a trade of (source below for those who don't remember). But C19 happened, which makes the industry go through fundamental changes and furthermore the A380 can't be used at NHD, which makes it even less useful for ANA. Depending on how long the C19 downturn lasts, I think it is realistic that the A280 might go "directly" to the scrapper. Especially since ANA has 777X on order to replace them and the A380 is the only Airbus WB in the fleet. Did it ever happen that a "new" plane went directly from the manufacturer to the scrapper, without being used much by the customer, or would that be a first for the aviation industry? (if it might happen)


Source
https://centreforaviation.com/analysis/ ... ort-260531
 
jagraham
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:32 pm

With the number of 777s NH has, it's no surprise that they are the majority of the cuts.
But the distribution is . . they have (from post #4)
19 x 777-200/-200ER configured for domestic flights, with up to 405 seats.
7 777-300 are also domestic only.
28 x 777-300ER and
2 x A380

13 of the 28 77Ws will be withdrawn
2 of the 7 773s will be withdrawn
7 of the 19 77As / 77Es will be withdrawn (they have 7 77As and 12 77Es)

Re the 767s, they are all ERs at this time; 5 have been converted to freighters, and 4 were built as freighters.eleven, including the last two built as Fs, are less than 12 years old.
5 of those 767s are going away.

The drawdown is spread across the 777 and 767 fleets. The only possibility of a fleet being withdrawn is the 77As.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 3044
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:49 pm

Tabito wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Is there any source on that? Can’t seem to find anything with a breakdown of each variant being retired.


In Japanese
https://www.aviationwire.jp/archives/213804


Thanks!

Does anyone know how many 777-300ERs have been configured with the new First/Business Class seats? I guess the ones that haven't been reconfigured could be among the 13 that will be retired?
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8475
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:10 pm

Capricorn wrote:
I can't see a subfleet consisting of only 3 planes as being remotely economical.


It won't be. It never could have been. Separate flight crew. Separate parts. Insanity. Obviously they have spare 77W capacity to meet any demand.

What's the Japanese regulation on impairment charges? Maybe they just don't want to eat $800 million right now.
 
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LAXintl
Posts: 24794
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Re: Rumor: ANA to reduce their fleet of large aircrafts by half

Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:15 pm

Launching low cost medium/longhaul operation should not be a surprise as ANA for several years now has said it was planning such a product as part of its leisure portfolio.

The only question outstanding was would utilize something like 321LR and focus on routes up to 7-8 hours max, or move up to widebodies. Decision now made.

Ishrion wrote:
Does anyone know how many 777-300ERs have been configured with the new First/Business Class seats? I guess the ones that haven't been reconfigured could be among the 13 that will be retired?


When announced it was to be initially 12 frames.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
YYZORD
Posts: 521
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Re: Updated: ANA to retire 35 aircraft in 2020

Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:14 pm

I assume that ORD, IAH, and IAD will become 789 routes if NH is retiring 13 777-300ER's?
 
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ArcticSEA
Posts: 170
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Re: Updated: ANA to retire 35 aircraft in 2020

Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:16 pm

Well, there's your feedstock for 77W freighters.

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