https://www.wisn.com/article/sources-pr ... y/34438715

I know with a President coming into an airport the airport shuts down aircraft movements and no planes are allowed to land or takeoff as he leaves the airport and goes to another spot to campaign or whatever.. What happens when he holds these rallies at an airport? Is the entire airport shutdown from when he arrives until he leaves?

medexman wrote:

https://www.wisn.com/article/sources-president-trump-to-make-stop-in-milwaukee-on-saturday/34438715

I know with a President coming into an airport the airport shuts down aircraft movements and no planes are allowed to land or takeoff as ....

Not quite.
I don't believe it happens for the President of France.
Or the President of Mexico, or Ireland, or....

In fact, it only really happens in one country on this planet, unless you know differently?

VIP is such a vague term.
An amendment to the thread title perhaps?

In my days on the ground. Bill Clinton's famous Haircut debacle at LAX shut everything down and delayed everything for hours. The only other time I've seen a excessive closing down of airport and airspace was Bush JR 2nd term campaign tour stop at SNA. He closed everything down for 3 hrs because were he was speaking was to close to the SNA departure area. It was Post 9/11 so everything was On high alert. There was a Ramp agent who walked out to the J line trying to snap a picture of Bushes arrival and was meet with a large number of airport police with him being forced to lay face down on the Ramp. The above the gate area was cleared of all passengers. The number of law enforcement at the airport was crazy. During my days in the Sky I landed 4 mins behind Obama on a campaign stop at CLE the airport was almost business as Usual.

Flyguy

At the rally in Tucson the other day, flights were still operating in and out during the rally. Obviously nothing happening when he was taxiing/walking on the ramp etc

SheikhDjibouti wrote:

In fact, it only really happens in one country on this planet, unless you know differently?

VIP is such a vague term.
An amendment to the thread title perhaps?

Back in 2008 I had a flight delayed from TBS thanks to the President of Georgia being late for departure and the Army / Airforce / whoever shutting down inbound operations until he departed. About a week later he ordered the invasion of South Ossetia, which also went well...

When Pence, any cabinet members, or Trump's sons/son-in-law/daughters come into MIA on the C-32, or C-37, they usually park over next to the customs building just north of 8L/26R. They don't close down the airport, the SS just secures the immediate perimeter around the parked aircraft. When Trump comes they temporarily shut down activities around Cargo City and "The U's" and restrict airliner ground movements from the southern terminals. AF1 lands on 9/27 (they also close 12/30) and the plane parks at the remote stands near the central fire station. However, airline activities continue on 8R/26L and 8L/26R after Trump's plane parks and he is shuttled away using the gate on the south side of the airport near the 94th Aero Squadron.

PlymSpotter wrote:

SheikhDjibouti wrote:

In fact, it only really happens in one country on this planet, unless you know differently?

Back in 2008 I had a flight delayed from TBS thanks to the President of Georgia being late for departure and the Army / Airforce / whoever shutting down inbound operations until he departed. About a week later he ordered the invasion of South Ossetia, which also went well...

Ok, that's fair enough! I withdraw my comment.

So you and the other four people waiting in the terminal were inconvenienced that day.
(Yes, I am joking; in fact Tblisi was shifting around 2,000 pax a day in 2008, so there might have been three or four flights and up to 500 people delayed in a worst case scenario)

Things were a little more relaxed back in 1962 at LHR.

Here is the Queen Mother getting on board her own four-engined "Air Force One", escorted by two men who could be the pilots, and watched by nine members of the press or spectators, all held back by two heavy duty crowd control barriers and a "Please Keep off the Grass" sign.

SheikhDjibouti wrote:

PlymSpotter wrote:

SheikhDjibouti wrote:

In fact, it only really happens in one country on this planet, unless you know differently?

Back in 2008 I had a flight delayed from TBS thanks to the President of Georgia being late for departure and the Army / Airforce / whoever shutting down inbound operations until he departed. About a week later he ordered the invasion of South Ossetia, which also went well...

Ok, that's fair enough! I withdraw my comment.

So you and the other four people waiting in the terminal were inconvenienced that day.
(Yes, I am joking; in fact Tblisi was shifting around 2,000 pax a day in 2008, so there might have been three or four flights and up to 500 people delayed in a worst case scenario)

Things were a little more relaxed back in 1962 at LHR.

Here is the Queen Mother getting on board her own four-engined "Air Force One", escorted by two men who could be the pilots, and watched by nine members of the press or spectators, all held back by two heavy duty crowd control barriers and a "Please Keep off the Grass" sign.

Loved it!

Have in mind that keeping off the grass is seriously enforced in the UK to this day.

Spirit landed and took off during one of Trump's rallies....

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1301735640023945216

SheikhDjibouti wrote:

[Ok, that's fair enough! I withdraw my comment.

So you and the other four people waiting in the terminal were inconvenienced that day.

Ahem, four people and a pig. Don't you be leaving the pig out of this - he was an important part of their 2008 traffic

If you go to the FAA link below, it will show you the temporary flight restrictions (TFR's) at BNA for Trump's debate visit Oct 21. Commercial traffic is generally not restricted except during AF1's movements.

https://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_0_5466.html

This site has a lot of charts VFR, IFR, enroute, etc. I found all the charts for Orlando here. You can pull up the TFR's here too.

https://skyvector.com/

SheikhDjibouti wrote:

In fact, it only really happens in one country on this planet, unless you know differently?

Not so much "in" one country, more "for" that particular country. Lots of cases where European airports got shut down because the US President decided to come for a visit. You don't notice it in the UK because you have a gazillion airports and several airbases around London, but whenever a US president visits Denmark they shut down Copenhagen (the airport and the city). They usually reopen the airport once he has been driven away, then close it again before his departure.

If you head over to the "you know you are in Africa when..." topic on Pprune, you will find several stories about how African countries happily shut down their airports without prior notice because the president/eternal leader/dictator/general/general secretary of the ruling party/prime minister/lord of all beasts and fishes etc. fancies a flight.

SheikhDjibouti wrote:

I don't believe it happens for the President of France.

That I can confirm. I was at the holding point at an airport in France when Macron came in to land.

Back in 2007 when former US President Bush visited Brazil, GRU airport was closed 10 mins prior to AF1 arrival and was reopened at the moment his motorcade left the airport area.
Airlines were informed way before and no big issues were reported.
I was on duty that day and clearly remember.
Less than 1 hour of closure in total.
Same by the time he left.

The Clintons use HPN all the time, and Trump Jr. has been there at least once. Other than having security details, they blend in pretty well with the other corporate traffic. They go through Million Air on the west side of the field, across the runway from the main terminal and other FBOs to the east.

It was a different story when Obama visited in 2014. Not much room to park a C-32, so the field was shut down while POTUS was on property.

I’ve followed CANFORCE 01 on the KTEB ILS 19 twice, no big deal at all. Once parked on the ramp at RAF Alconbury after an overnight flight. Helicopter landed in front of us at Base Ops, then a Bobby strode over and politely asked us to stop unloading until John Major left. At most a five minute wait. The USSS is over the top, out of control on security.

Not related to an airport shutting down but related to VIP movement... Last week when POTUS went to Iowa, the other 747 (28000) went to Iowa as well, about 30 minutes ahead and appears to have landed at a different airport, it also flew a much different route from DC to Iowa. Then on Friday when POTUS was in Ft Myers, Ocala and then Macon, GA on a 757, the other 757 was again close by flying around MacDill AFB in Tampa, down to SRQ, etc. Would the reason be simply for a spare aircraft? By not going to the same airports it is most likely not carrying anyone who would normally travel with POTUS or the press.

The logistics for VIP travel is quite interesting. I noticed C-17's (REACH callsigns) holding to land as POTUS was departing, they must be quick to get in, load up and fly out to the next location.

VSMUT wrote:

SheikhDjibouti wrote:

I don't believe it happens for the President of France.

That I can confirm. I was at the holding point at an airport in France when Macron came in to land.

I was thinking more in terms of what might have happened when AF4590 turned into a fireball.

wikipedia wrote:

Due to the veer, the Concorde travelled further down the runway than normal because it was failing to gain sufficient takeoff speed.

At one point it drifted towards an Air France Boeing 747 which was carrying then-French President Jacques Chirac

Meanwhile, over in sleepy ol' England.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Once parked on the ramp at RAF Alconbury after an overnight flight. Helicopter landed in front of us at Base Ops, then a Bobby strode over and politely asked us to stop unloading until John Major left.

Two thoughts;
1) For those who don't have a Scooby-Doo; John Major was UK Prime Minister, famous for his affair with Edwina Currie MP.
2) I'm guessing Bobby wasn't just a random guy called Robert

n92r03 wrote:

The logistics for VIP travel is quite interesting. I noticed C-17's (REACH callsigns) ...

That ain't the half of it;
I was watching a pair of E-3 AWACS (76-1605 & 77-0356 c/s Sentry27 & Sentry40) chasing each other around identical racetrack ovals north of Fresno, CA at the weekend. Very pretty!

And there was a HAVCAP featuring [allegedly] CA ANG F-15Cs out of Fresno & SD ANG 175th FS F-16s (det March AFB), supported by several KC-135Rs e.g. Taboo 60
(62-3575) looping around LA, just in case there might be some enemy fighter a/c hanging around somewhere....

SheikhDjibouti wrote:

medexman wrote:

https://www.wisn.com/article/sources-president-trump-to-make-stop-in-milwaukee-on-saturday/34438715

I know with a President coming into an airport the airport shuts down aircraft movements and no planes are allowed to land or takeoff as ....

Not quite.
I don't believe it happens for the President of France.
Or the President of Mexico, or Ireland, or....

In fact, it only really happens in one country on this planet, unless you know differently?

VIP is such a vague term.
An amendment to the thread title perhaps?

Last time when Xi Jin Ping flown into/out of Macau they have to shut the Hong Kong airport which wasn't even the one he's using...
Your country isn't that special/exceptional ....

This is the most egregious aspect of Presidential security.

Over 16 years of flying, I (and my pax) have been delayed many times. In a country that doesn’t have royalty, that doesn’t have much respect for anything or anyone of a higher stature, it is outrageous that delays extend 30 plus minutes to thousands of people because an unnamed VIP (they never tell you who it is) is 30 miles away.

We have a very secure commercial aviation system in the US. There is no reason why AF 1 cant be on final between Delta and United. Give them priority, yes. But no need to stop all of us for a “cone” of security

jfklganyc wrote:

This is the most egregious aspect of Presidential security.

Over 16 years of flying, I (and my pax) have been delayed many times. In a country that doesn’t have royalty, that doesn’t have much respect for anything or anyone of a higher stature, it is outrageous that delays extend 30 plus minutes to thousands of people because an unnamed VIP (they never tell you who it is) is 30 miles away.

We have a very secure commercial aviation system in the US. There is no reason why AF 1 cant be on final between Delta and United. Give them priority, yes. But no need to stop all of us for a “cone” of security

The Secret Service sees it differently. Perhaps you've never been in the rolling blockade of an urban Interstate highway where, five miles ahead and some miles behind the motorcade, all traffic is blocked in the direction of travel - nobody is allowed to enter, and nobody is allowed to approach from behind.. Same thing for nominated presidential candidates - even if not the current president running for re-election.

9/11 shows the impact of a jetliner willfully flown at speed.

I wrote a reply yesterday which seems to have been deleted? I'll post a censored version of it this time (very fitting).

I once was delayed for about 40 minutes in MSQ, when the aircraft carrying President Lukashenko was arriving. The airport was shut down until it landed. I believe it was the Belarusian state BBJ2 at the time.

Well, I'll be heading to BNA right around the time the Donald is arriving today. This should be fun........

Back on September 12th, Trump and AF1 were departing RNO late in the evening. ATC instructed AA1273 to maintain a holding pattern over CXP due to VIP movement and when the pilot inquired who it was, ATC responded it was *THE* VIP. No response from the pilot(s) who were already less than thrilled as they were already risking a divert to SMF due to fuel.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL1273/history/20200913/0149Z/KDFW/KRNO

It is not just the main aircraft, all the associated Helicopters etc also cause chaos especially at airports with scheduled flights. They have been banned from using certain airports because of it. No-one else would dare insisting on the ridiculous priority that the US circus does when visiting other countries.

medexman wrote:

https://www.wisn.com/article/sources-president-trump-to-make-stop-in-milwaukee-on-saturday/34438715

I know with a President coming into an airport the airport shuts down aircraft movements and no planes are allowed to land or takeoff as he leaves the airport and goes to another spot to campaign or whatever.. What happens when he holds these rallies at an airport? Is the entire airport shutdown from when he arrives until he leaves?

So here is how it worked at SFB last week when POTUS was here.. There was a TFR issued the entire time he was here, but allowed commercial traffic and air ambulance traffic.. no GA, training etc. It was the usual traffic stop 15 min before arrival until 15 min after departure of AF 1. While the Pres was doing his rally at SFB, only Allegiant was moving

I happened to be visiting PHX earlier this week. I got to see AF1 depart while I was waiting to catch a light rail train a couple of miles east of the airport. It flew right over my head and I managed to snap a few phone pics. Anyway, a couple of Southwest flights took off almost right away behind it, save for only the standard wake turbulence gap. So it didn't seem to affect operations too much.

VSMUT wrote:

SheikhDjibouti wrote:

In fact, it only really happens in one country on this planet, unless you know differently?

If you head over to the "you know you are in Africa when..." topic on Pprune, you will find several stories about how African countries happily shut down their airports without prior notice because the president/eternal leader/dictator/general/general secretary of the ruling party/prime minister/lord of all beasts and fishes etc. fancies a flight.

SheikhDjibouti wrote:

I don't believe it happens for the President of France.

That I can confirm. I was at the holding point at an airport in France when Macron came in to land.

Speaking of that... I knew some pilots who used to fly the Portuguese version of Air Force One (actually, a tattered old Falcon 50). They used to have some crazy stories of flying into Africa, including being extorted by random airport staff for some "airport fees" - this while carrying VIPs on-board.

Used to work many years in an office that overlooked the Wall Street Heliport. Every time the POTUS (Obama at the time) was in town, I would know because my building would start to shake, from the 3 or 4 Chinooks (later Ospreys) that would land ahead of the 2 Marine One helicopters, that would land in opposite sides of the heliport (you never knew which one The Beast would head to until the last minute). Naturally they would shut down the entire heliport as long as they were in town, but also the (normally very busy) FDR highway right by it.

n92r03 wrote:

Not related to an airport shutting down but related to VIP movement... Last week when POTUS went to Iowa, the other 747 (28000) went to Iowa as well, about 30 minutes ahead and appears to have landed at a different airport, it also flew a much different route from DC to Iowa. Then on Friday when POTUS was in Ft Myers, Ocala and then Macon, GA on a 757, the other 757 was again close by flying around MacDill AFB in Tampa, down to SRQ, etc. Would the reason be simply for a spare aircraft? By not going to the same airports it is most likely not carrying anyone who would normally travel with POTUS or the press.

The logistics for VIP travel is quite interesting. I noticed C-17's (REACH callsigns) holding to land as POTUS was departing, they must be quick to get in, load up and fly out to the next location.

I do love the logistics part of it. I remember when Obama got elected the second time AF1 backup plane was at MKE for quite a while as he was down in Chicago. Very interesting indeed.

wnflyguy wrote:

In my days on the ground. Bill Clinton's famous Haircut debacle at LAX shut everything down and delayed everything for hours. The only other time I've seen a excessive closing down of airport and airspace was Bush JR 2nd term campaign tour stop at SNA. He closed everything down for 3 hrs because were he was speaking was to close to the SNA departure area. It was Post 9/11 so everything was On high alert. There was a Ramp agent who walked out to the J line trying to snap a picture of Bushes arrival and was meet with a large number of airport police with him being forced to lay face down on the Ramp. The above the gate area was cleared of all passengers. The number of law enforcement at the airport was crazy. During my days in the Sky I landed 4 mins behind Obama on a campaign stop at CLE the airport was almost business as Usual.

Flyguy

Back in the day when I worked as a flight attendant for an airline we took the Press Corp and secret service agents from Waco Texas to Milwaukee. Got some really good stories from the secret service agents.

BWN. Every. Single. Time. a Royal Flight aircraft is arriving/departing.

SheikhDjibouti wrote:

medexman wrote:

https://www.wisn.com/article/sources-president-trump-to-make-stop-in-milwaukee-on-saturday/34438715

I know with a President coming into an airport the airport shuts down aircraft movements and no planes are allowed to land or takeoff as ....

Not quite.
I don't believe it happens for the President of France.
Or the President of Mexico, or Ireland, or....

In fact, it only really happens in one country on this planet, unless you know differently?

VIP is such a vague term.
An amendment to the thread title perhaps?

My country Nigeria observes the VIP movement thing as well for the President and Vice President.