Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
Antarius
Posts: 2713
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:45 am

UA857 wrote:
Should AA order more 788s to replace their 763 and A330s?


Why do you think AA needs more capacity? They're retiring the a332 because they need to cut somewhere and it's the odd man out, not because the a332 needs replacement.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
Antarius
Posts: 2713
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:49 am

BA744PHX wrote:
acavpics wrote:
Antarius wrote:
Internationally (longhaul), CLT has less O&D than DFW, JFK and MIA. That's why. Domestically, CLT is a rockstar and will continue to be that way.


Has O&D from CLT been going up until this year? - I'm asking because I've read that Charlotte is one of the fastest growing metro areas in the country. I believe Charlotte along with Nashville and Austin were the top 3 fastest growing metros.


They are by % but not numerical, Charlotte, Nashville an Austin are in the 1.9 mill - 2.5 mill metro range which is only 25-30% of what DFW metro of 7.5 mill.

Bluntly, they are still very small


This. CLT is growing and an important city from a banking perspective, but it is much smaller than ORD, DFW etc.

CLT as an airport and hub is truly an incredible situation, as it is the 7th busiest airport in the world by movement worldwide. That said, it is so busy and successful due to its connection capacity domestically.

If widebodies are going out largely empty in 2021, AA would cut CLT long before they touch one that has some O&D like DFW.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
User avatar
einsteinboricua
Posts: 8598
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:07 am

I should have flown the A330 when I had the chance back in January. To this day, I still haven't been able to jump into one. I thought AA would still keep them going, but oh well.

But Covid really hit airlines hard. Looking at AA's fleet's wiki page, they're only down to 777/787s for widebodies; A32X family and 737s make up the bulk of the fleet, with a few 738s expected to leave the fleet next year.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
User avatar
Antaras
Posts: 1004
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:18 am

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:42 am

Not really related to AA, but seems like the PW on A330s were always complaint due to poor performance?
What are the advantages and disadv' of the three A330 engine choices? Is the RR too superior to the GE and PW?
If you disagree with my statement, assume that it was just a joke :duck:
 
JJR
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:18 am

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:34 am

Those seem to be a perfect fit for OS, smaller than the B772 but bigger than the B767, same engine type as the A333 at LH and their range should cover all the missions OS currently has (or had pre-COVID), they will be certainly cheaper than buying new but they are young aircraft. Furthermore, they are a more logical step from the A320 family and OS has even operated them before.

As of AA, the B787 covers all the needs of A332 while being more efficient and their economies of scale favor them within AA’s fleet.
 
Lootess
Posts: 516
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 6:15 am

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:40 am

Boof02671 wrote:
Why do multiple posters always have to ask that would Delta buy used planes when they are removing their own?


Yeah it’s weird, someone on a.net always says DL would buy used widebodies and that hasn’t happened since the
merger. The LATAM fleet used A359s they paid to get out of.
 
chonetsao
Posts: 712
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:55 pm

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:49 am

UA857 wrote:
Should AA order more 788s to replace their 763 and A330s?


They already did. The initial order of B788 was to replace B763. The second order of B787 not long ago was to replace the A333 and presumably now A332.

The incoming B789 from the second B787 orders would replace B777-200ER. There is no need to order more in today's market condition. However, there is a possibility of B789 delivery delay, and a re-arrange seating configuration to meet the market.
 
Fixinthe757
Posts: 242
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:48 am

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:29 am

ArcticSEA wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
I wonder if the A320 would be the next, consider the age of the fleet. If so, AA would only have A319, A321, B738, B777 and B787 left in mainline fleet.

Also it would be an interesting game to play to guess when the first AA B777-200 is to be retired, it must be very close now, maybe in 2-3 years time?

It is my understanding that the A320 was already on the way out?

They are. AA will have only 319s and 321s. All the 320s are LUS and much older. The 772s are next in line for retirement. Wont be long for them to start. As more 787s come in, the 772s will be going
 
User avatar
hOMSaR
Moderator
Posts: 2358
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:47 am

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:20 pm

As a reminder, this thread is about AA retiring the A330-200, not United’s Polaris fleet conversions. There is already a separate thread for that discussion.
I was raised by a cup of coffee.
 
jayunited
Posts: 3024
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:50 pm

Antarius wrote:
jayunited wrote:
acavpics wrote:
So is it safe to say that PHL and CLT will be the biggest losers of long haul, given that most long hauls out of those cities were on A330's?
I'd think that DFW, MIA, even JFK would be a higher priority for the now limited widebodies.



Why would CLT be a big looser when CLT even during COVID is one of AA's most profitable hubs?

I understand a majority of the A330s were based out of PHL and CLT but AA would be handing DL a huge victory in ATL if they don't find a way to keep most of CLT's TATL operation in tact starting in 2022.

I really think it will all come down to JFK, PHL, and to a lessor extent perhaps ORD. If AA is going to be short on widebodies come 2022, as the industry really starts rounding the curve, AA might have to make some really difficult decisions. But I think DFW, CLT and LAX are probably safe while there could be some TATL cuts from JFK, PHL and/or ORD.


Internationally (longhaul), CLT has less O&D than DFW, JFK and MIA. That's why. Domestically, CLT is a rockstar and will continue to be that way.



I understand that CLT has less O&D than some of the other hubs in AA's network but the doesn't mean CLT should be one of the big losers if AA runs into a widebody shortage as the industry recovers in 2022. If we look at the eastern half of the U.S. and focus on AA's hubs (except MIA) pre-COVID AA flew more year around TATL flights (in no particular order) out of DFW, CLT, PHL, JFK, ORD. In my honest opinion as an outsider I really think DFW, CLT and PHL TATL operations are safe. I think AA if there is a widebody shortage come 2022 will take a hard look at JFK and ORD.

I think DL would capitalize at ATL on any TATL cuts AA makes at CLT. However on the flip side if we look at AA's pre-COVID TATL operation out of ORD they had an impressive lineup during IATA summer. However the only TATL route AA flew year around was ORD-LHR. For years UA has not be able to capitalize on this and I don't see UA shifting our TATL strategy at ORD. I think UA will continue to focus on LHR, FRA, MUC, BRU, AMS, and CDG. I know I'm leaving out other UA TATL destinations but I think UA will bring these flights back maybe not at the same frequency starting out. But at the same time I don't see UA jumping on ORD-ATH/BCN or any of the other leisure TATL destinations AA flew out of ORD because UA's leisure TATL strategy strategy pre-COVID was EWR first. When additional capacity was needed UA added a nonstop from IAD, ORD was the like the third string quarterback. I think AA might have some breathing room at ORD if we look at UA's pre-COVID leisure TATL strategy.

I completely understand the importance of O&D, but it is important to have a robust TATL operations out of CLT. PHL is equally as important because of UA at EWR. If it really comes down to a temporary widebody shortage I think AA will look at JFK and ORD to see what leisure TATL markets they can temporarily suspend to protect two of their main east coast gateways PHL and CLT.
 
User avatar
YMX4ever
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:18 am

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:55 pm

Sad to see the A332 go
 
TWFlyGuy
Posts: 429
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:10 pm

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:13 pm

Saying CLT will lose to DFW ignores that there is a large portion of the remaining demand for which DFW would be an extreme backtrack. PHL will likely do ok because it, geographically, is very efficient to funnel people through the NE for TATL. CLT could still hold some opportunity as it is extremely inexpensive to operate from which helps when you're relying on connecting traffic. In the end, I think CLT will continue to be very seasonal, more so next year with LHR remaining year round but most if not everything else being summer only for the next 1-2 years. PHL may keep a couple more year round than CLT but I think we'll see even DL & UA with their large JFK/EWR TATL presence drop quite a few markets to rely on partner hubs to funnel pax through vs serving as many secondary markets as they do.
 
moyangmm
Posts: 224
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:22 pm

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:17 pm

It's great to see AA move to a modern all Boeing fleet!
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 2140
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:22 pm

aerace wrote:
jayunited wrote:
acavpics wrote:
So is it safe to say that PHL and CLT will be the biggest losers of long haul, given that most long hauls out of those cities were on A330's?
I'd think that DFW, MIA, even JFK would be a higher priority for the now limited widebodies.



Why would CLT be a big looser when CLT even during COVID is one of AA's most profitable hubs?

I understand a majority of the A330s were based out of PHL and CLT but AA would be handing DL a huge victory in ATL if they don't find a way to keep most of CLT's TATL operation in tact starting in 2022.

I really think it will all come down to JFK, PHL, and to a lessor extent perhaps ORD. If AA is going to be short on widebodies come 2022, as the industry really starts rounding the curve, AA might have to make some really difficult decisions. But I think DFW, CLT and LAX are probably safe while there could be some TATL cuts from JFK, PHL and/or ORD.


787s been running out of PHL from late last year. There was a focus to transition PHL into a 787 pilot base some time now so I don't think there was such a reliance for the A330s. Although things could still shift, it looks like PHL is planned to run 15 widebodies for summer 21. Vasa Raju firmed up that PHL would continue to be the TATL gateway, although I wouldn't be surprised to see some smaller destinations like EDI or SNN go away.


A lot of PHL TATL pre-COVID flying was leisure, outside of LHR/CDG. I suspect some cuts will happen, some consolidation with JFK, which could surprisingly see some routes moved up to JFK (FCO combined with the seasonal JFK flight, ZRH, and ATH if it launches) if the B6 partnership really does take off. The A330's were the backbone of the PHL and CLT widebody service, not the 787. The 787s were replacing 763s at PHL and PHL was a very long way from becoming largely a 787 TATL operation. The A330 draw down will either mean 772s and more 787s to PHL (I see 777s at CLT being more likely) and TATL at PHL rightsized very substantially. I think all TATL from CLT pre-COVID was A333/332 and from PHL a lot of routes were still on the A330 including LHR, CDG, MAD, BCN, DUB, VCE, ATH with I believe ZRH, AMS, and MAN maybe having gone 787 but had been A330s.
Last edited by Cointrin330 on Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
IAmGaroott
Posts: 129
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:37 pm

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:23 pm

JohanTally wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
usxguy wrote:

CLT-SJU
PHL-SJU
CLT-MCO
PHL-MCO
PHX-PHL
CLT-SFO
PHL-CUN
PHX-HNL


CLT-PUJ
CLT-BOS
CLT-GRU
CLT-GIG
PHL-BOS

Don't think they ever made it to LIS or AMS.


CLT-PHX
CLT-CUN
CLT-STT
CLT-AUA
CLT-SXM
CLT-PHL


A333
PHL-LGW
FCO-PHL
PHL-CDG
CDG-PHL
PHL-MUC

A332
MUC-PHL

Glad I got to experience both types one last time on a trip to Germany in 2016.
 
micstatic
Posts: 771
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2001 10:07 pm

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:24 pm

moyangmm wrote:
It's great to see AA move to a modern all Boeing fleet!

You must have missed all the airbus narrowbodies
S340,DH8,AT7,CR2/7,E135/45/170/190,319,320,717,732,733,734,735,737,738,744,752,762,763,764,772,M80,M90
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 2140
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:34 pm

IAmGaroott wrote:
JohanTally wrote:
USAirALB wrote:

CLT-PUJ
CLT-BOS
CLT-GRU
CLT-GIG
PHL-BOS

Don't think they ever made it to LIS or AMS.


CLT-PHX
CLT-CUN
CLT-STT
CLT-AUA
CLT-SXM
CLT-PHL


A333
PHL-LGW
FCO-PHL
PHL-CDG
CDG-PHL
PHL-MUC

A332
MUC-PHL

Glad I got to experience both types one last time on a trip to Germany in 2016.


Think FRA and MUC from PHL were cut and consolidated to CLT and a DFW-MUC route launched in 2019.
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 2140
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:36 pm

moyangmm wrote:
It's great to see AA move to a modern all Boeing fleet!


The A330-200s were younger than the entire 777-200ER fleet of 47 and were built and delivered from 2009 to 2014. The A330-300s were built and delivered between 2000 and 2002. AA has a vast fleet of Airbus narrowbodies and one of the biggest A321 operators out there. AA's 772s were revamped several years ago, ditching First and the cabin refits are really nice. AA has a simplified long haul fleet now around the 777 (W and 2) and 787 (8 and 9).
 
Antarius
Posts: 2713
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:38 pm

micstatic wrote:
moyangmm wrote:
It's great to see AA move to a modern all Boeing fleet!

You must have missed all the airbus narrowbodies


:rotfl:

And the large number of future a321 deliveries.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
jfk777
Posts: 7387
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:02 pm

The young A330-200 fleet with Y+ seating could be a very nice fleet for someone to acquire on favorable terms. They are ready to go for an airline needing more airplanes especially if they already operate RR A330's. Maybe SAA( or successor ) could rebuild their long haul fleet with these birds.
 
IAmGaroott
Posts: 129
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:37 pm

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:04 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
IAmGaroott wrote:
JohanTally wrote:

CLT-PHX
CLT-CUN
CLT-STT
CLT-AUA
CLT-SXM
CLT-PHL


A333
PHL-LGW
FCO-PHL
PHL-CDG
CDG-PHL
PHL-MUC

A332
MUC-PHL

Glad I got to experience both types one last time on a trip to Germany in 2016.


Think FRA and MUC from PHL were cut and consolidated to CLT and a DFW-MUC route launched in 2019.


You’re absolutely right. Funny how one’s memory fades so quickly. It was to and from CLT lol.
 
SRQLOT
Posts: 505
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:05 pm

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:11 pm

Definitely glad I flew on the 332 this past December, it is unfortunate how many other models being retired this year I missed out on at this point.
LO LH CL BA AZ WN UA DL AA B6 NK G4 F9
717 733/7/8/9/M8 744 752/3 763 788 319/20/21 332/3 M90 RJ85 CR9 Q400 E7/95 (PA28,152)
 
JeremyB
Posts: 179
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:56 pm

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:34 pm

USAirALB wrote:
usxguy wrote:
IrishAyes wrote:
just for kicks, I'm trying to think of all the routes these A330 birds have flown over the years, as a commemoration:

CLT-LHR
CLT-CDG
CLT-FRA
CLT-MUC
CLT-MAD
CLT-FCO
CLT-BCN
CLT-DUB
CLT-LGW
PHL-LHR
PHL-FRA
PHL-CDG
PHL-MAN
PHL-DUB
PHL-MAD
PHL-MUC
PHL-FCO
PHL-VCE
PHL-ATH
PHL-TLV
PHL-BCN
PHL-LGW
PHL-ZRH?
PHL-LIS?
PHL-AMS?
ORD-DUB?
ORD-MAN?
PIT-LGW
PIT-FRA
PIT-CDG
JFK-???
MIA-???


CLT-SJU
PHL-SJU
CLT-MCO
PHL-MCO
PHX-PHL
CLT-SFO
PHL-CUN
PHX-HNL


CLT-PUJ
CLT-BOS

CLT-GRU
CLT-GIG
PHL-BOS

Don't think they ever made it to LIS or AMS.


It was supposed to start on the 29th of March this year, so PHL-AMS indeed wasn't flown with the A332.
 
usairways85
Posts: 4168
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:31 pm

PHL-LAS
PHL-SFO
PHL-LAX
 
raylee67
Posts: 934
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:06 pm

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:56 pm

It has dropped the 757, 767, E190 and now all A330.

American now actually has a surprisingly clean fleet for an airline of its size, just 4 major types: A320 series (inc. CEO and NEOs), 737NG/MAX, 777 and 787.

This is a very efficient and streamlined setup. The only gap is that now it does not have something at the size of 757 for trans-Atlantic, but the market is not going to come back soon so it's not going to be a concern within the next 12-18 months. When the market returns, their order of A321XLR will start to get delivered to fill that gap.

For the next 2 years, there will not be enough passenger flights to provide belly cargo space on long haul routes (trans-Pac, trans-Atl and North-South America routes). Not sure if it's financially feasible for AA to convert some of those retired A332 and A333 to P2F quickly and start dedicated freighter service. It's probably not going to happen, but just dreaming to see A330P2F in AA livery...
319/20/21 332/33 342/43/45 359/51 388 707 717 732/36/3G/38/39 74R/42/43/44/4E/48 757 762/63 772/7L/73/7W 788/89 D10 M80 135/40/45 175/90 DH1/4 CRJ/R7 L10
AY LH OU SR BA FI LX
AA DL UA NW AC CP WS FL NK PD
CI NH SQ KA CX JL BR OZ TG KE CA CZ NZ JQ RS
 
rexchase12
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:38 am

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:22 pm

ArcticSEA wrote:
Future freighters. There are conversion programs already in place for both variants.


FedEx replacements for the A300's?
 
jeffrey0032j
Posts: 863
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:11 pm

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:24 pm

raylee67 wrote:
It has dropped the 757, 767, E190 and now all A330.

American now actually has a surprisingly clean fleet for an airline of its size, just 4 major types: A320 series (inc. CEO and NEOs), 737NG/MAX, 777 and 787.

This is a very efficient and streamlined setup. The only gap is that now it does not have something at the size of 757 for trans-Atlantic, but the market is not going to come back soon so it's not going to be a concern within the next 12-18 months. When the market returns, their order of A321XLR will start to get delivered to fill that gap.

For the next 2 years, there will not be enough passenger flights to provide belly cargo space on long haul routes (trans-Pac, trans-Atl and North-South America routes). Not sure if it's financially feasible for AA to convert some of those retired A332 and A333 to P2F quickly and start dedicated freighter service. It's probably not going to happen, but just dreaming to see A330P2F in AA livery...

I would think in the next few years, long haul flights will be predominantly WB hub to hub, as airlines seek to reduce costs and preserve whatever revenue there is, so not an issue for the absence of 757s. I would think that there will be a lot more cooperation between airlines with existing JVs and alliances when it comes to network planning for feed at both ends.

The A330P2F is still not picking up steam as far as lessors and Airbus would hope as there are tons of more desirable 767s in the market.
 
jbs2886
Posts: 2480
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:55 pm

jeffrey0032j wrote:
raylee67 wrote:
It has dropped the 757, 767, E190 and now all A330.

American now actually has a surprisingly clean fleet for an airline of its size, just 4 major types: A320 series (inc. CEO and NEOs), 737NG/MAX, 777 and 787.

This is a very efficient and streamlined setup. The only gap is that now it does not have something at the size of 757 for trans-Atlantic, but the market is not going to come back soon so it's not going to be a concern within the next 12-18 months. When the market returns, their order of A321XLR will start to get delivered to fill that gap.

For the next 2 years, there will not be enough passenger flights to provide belly cargo space on long haul routes (trans-Pac, trans-Atl and North-South America routes). Not sure if it's financially feasible for AA to convert some of those retired A332 and A333 to P2F quickly and start dedicated freighter service. It's probably not going to happen, but just dreaming to see A330P2F in AA livery...

I would think in the next few years, long haul flights will be predominantly WB hub to hub, as airlines seek to reduce costs and preserve whatever revenue there is, so not an issue for the absence of 757s. I would think that there will be a lot more cooperation between airlines with existing JVs and alliances when it comes to network planning for feed at both ends.

The A330P2F is still not picking up steam as far as lessors and Airbus would hope as there are tons of more desirable 767s in the market.


Especially now as the 767 feedstock just increased dramatically. But, with very young A330s, never know.
 
User avatar
Spacepope
Posts: 4761
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:00 pm

rexchase12 wrote:
ArcticSEA wrote:
Future freighters. There are conversion programs already in place for both variants.


FedEx replacements for the A300's?


Doubtful, A330 wingspan is too long for parking slots, and for the same amout of real estate you can park a 77F. Probably not a good replacement capacity-wise for A300s either.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2267
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:14 pm

raylee67 wrote:
It has dropped the 757, 767, E190 and now all A330.

American now actually has a surprisingly clean fleet for an airline of its size, just 4 major types: A320 series (inc. CEO and NEOs), 737NG/MAX, 777 and 787.

This is a very efficient and streamlined setup. The only gap is that now it does not have something at the size of 757 for trans-Atlantic, but the market is not going to come back soon so it's not going to be a concern within the next 12-18 months. When the market returns, their order of A321XLR will start to get delivered to fill that gap.

For the next 2 years, there will not be enough passenger flights to provide belly cargo space on long haul routes (trans-Pac, trans-Atl and North-South America routes). Not sure if it's financially feasible for AA to convert some of those retired A332 and A333 to P2F quickly and start dedicated freighter service. It's probably not going to happen, but just dreaming to see A330P2F in AA livery...

First of all it costs millions to convert and months. AA doesn’t have the money for that. All US carriers who use to have cargo planes got rid of them. And the A330 P2F program is fairly new.

It’s $15 million to convert the 332 and $16 million for the 333. And there is only one company certified to do it.
 
rexchase12
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:38 am

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:24 pm

All US carriers who use to have cargo planes got rid of them.[/i]

Which US carriers?
 
Antarius
Posts: 2713
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:36 pm

Spacepope wrote:
rexchase12 wrote:
ArcticSEA wrote:
Future freighters. There are conversion programs already in place for both variants.


FedEx replacements for the A300's?


Doubtful, A330 wingspan is too long for parking slots, and for the same amout of real estate you can park a 77F. Probably not a good replacement capacity-wise for A300s either.


And now with the 777 P2F program available, even less reason for a larger aircraft.

The a330F occupies a weird spot, sort of like the 764 does. You may as well get the slightly larger and far more capable aircraft.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2267
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:45 pm

rexchase12 wrote:
All US carriers who use to have cargo planes got rid of them.[/i]

Which US carriers?

Northwest had 747-200 Cargo planes, American, United, Pan Am, others did but don’t remember them all
Last edited by Boof02671 on Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2267
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:46 pm

332s are already being stripped of parts today at ROS.
 
OB1504
Posts: 3987
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:49 pm

BettaFish7 wrote:
PhilMcCrackin wrote:

AA probably has the ability to delay those deliveries indefinitely. By all accounts, AA loves their A321s and most of them are quite young, except for a small tranche from the early aughts. They aren't going anywhere and AA has 240 of them, which isn't a small or insignificant subfleet. The bulk of them are under 10 years old. If anything leaves the narrowbody fleet, I suspect it will be additional older 738s.


Has AA ever tried to convince Boeing to have made a 757 replacement? Because many of those A321's replaced 757 routes. AA has always been a loyal customer but always bargaining to get the cheapest product, at least when Mr. Crandall was still there decades ago. To speculate, Boeing probably tried to instead convince them into the 737-900ER or 787-8, but the A321 for whatever reason was still the clear winner.


As another poster mentioned, no single manufacturer could get them the amount of aircraft they needed in the time frame they needed. Splitting the order also allows them to pit the manufacturers against each other for lower prices.

Given that AA has chosen the A321neo over the 737 MAX 9 for that size segment, it’s likely that the A321 will remain in the fleet for years to come.
 
jbs2886
Posts: 2480
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:21 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
332s are already being stripped of parts today at ROS.


The AA A332s? Do you mean ROW?
 
Ziyulu
Posts: 980
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:35 am

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:26 pm

AA does not seem to like Airbus widebodies. First, they retired the 300, then the 333, and now the 332. I don't think they will order the 350.
 
Antarius
Posts: 2713
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:31 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
AA does not seem to like Airbus widebodies. First, they retired the 300, then the 333, and now the 332. I don't think they will order the 350.


They also retired the 707, 727, 737 classic, 747, 757, 767. So clearly they don't like Boeing airplanes also.
They also retired the MD-11, DC-10, MD-80. So clearly they don't like McDonnell Douglas airplanes also.
They also retired the L188 Electra. So clearly they don't like Lockheed airplanes also.

:roll:
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
Antarius
Posts: 2713
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:32 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
332s are already being stripped of parts today at ROS.


The AA A332s? Do you mean ROW?


Must be. I can't imagine they flew them to Rosario, Argentina :mrgreen:
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
MD80MKE
Posts: 199
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:26 am

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:33 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
332s are already being stripped of parts today at ROS.

All are being scrapped or only the older ones? Also are you sure its 332s not older 333s?
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2267
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:34 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
332s are already being stripped of parts today at ROS.


The AA A332s? Do you mean ROW?

Yes Roswell, NM
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2267
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:37 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
AA does not seem to like Airbus widebodies. First, they retired the 300, then the 333, and now the 332. I don't think they will order the 350.

They already canceled the LUS 350 order. They will never want the 350.
 
jbs2886
Posts: 2480
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:38 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
332s are already being stripped of parts today at ROS.


The AA A332s? Do you mean ROW?

Yes Roswell, NM


Are you sure its the A332s, they are pretty new? A333s would make more sense.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2267
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:39 pm

MD80MKE wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
332s are already being stripped of parts today at ROS.

All are being scrapped or only the older ones? Also are you sure its 332s not older 333s?

None of them are scrapped. They are removing cabin stuff etc and selling parts. The 333s were already stripped of certain parts.
 
Ziyulu
Posts: 980
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:35 am

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:42 pm

I've a feeling this might come back and bite them. Remember was it Singapore Airlines who had to scramble to find new planes when the A380 was behind schedule?
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2267
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:43 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:

The AA A332s? Do you mean ROW?

Yes Roswell, NM


Are you sure its the A332s, they are pretty new? A333s would make more sense.

Today at ROW

Image
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 2140
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:48 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
I've a feeling this might come back and bite them. Remember was it Singapore Airlines who had to scramble to find new planes when the A380 was behind schedule?


Yes, but there wasn't a global pandemic then. The entire industry is doing this, worldwide. The expectation is that 2019 traffic levels will not return for 3 to 5, and possibly more years. AA has dozens of 787's on order.
Last edited by Cointrin330 on Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2267
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:48 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
I've a feeling this might come back and bite them. Remember was it Singapore Airlines who had to scramble to find new planes when the A380 was behind schedule?

December international flying is down 75% from last year and AA has 40 or so 787s on order.
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 2140
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:49 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
MD80MKE wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
332s are already being stripped of parts today at ROS.

All are being scrapped or only the older ones? Also are you sure its 332s not older 333s?

None of them are scrapped. They are removing cabin stuff etc and selling parts. The 333s were already stripped of certain parts.


The A333's are older than the A332's, delivered between 1999 and 2002 to US Airways. The A332s were delivered from 2009 to 2014.
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 2140
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:52 pm

jfk777 wrote:
The young A330-200 fleet with Y+ seating could be a very nice fleet for someone to acquire on favorable terms. They are ready to go for an airline needing more airplanes especially if they already operate RR A330's. Maybe SAA( or successor ) could rebuild their long haul fleet with these birds.


Yep, when traffic recovers. No airline is growing like that now.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos