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777luver
Posts: 166
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:44 am

Re: Air Canada’s CEO Calin Rovinescu to Retire Feb 2021

Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:12 pm

hoons90 wrote:
777luver wrote:
ElPistolero wrote:


I fly across the Pacific pretty much every year and both DL and AA have better meals in Y (in terms of both quality and quantity) than AC.

Trivial, but for the sake of comparison, AC doesn't even include gochujang sauce with their bibimbap.

Having said that, I still don't think AC's product is that bad.


I will say the quantity is small for sure but the quality is there again it’s all subjective everyone has a different opinion.
 
777luver
Posts: 166
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:44 am

Re: Air Canada’s CEO Calin Rovinescu to Retire Feb 2021

Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:16 pm

Skywatcher wrote:
I'm sure Colin will continue to be active in other ways. High performers like him don't just suddenly go fishing every day. I'm always amazed at how many people routinely cut CEO's and other senior executives down. They work non-stop at a very high stress level. Most mere mortals couldn't hack it for a day. Sure they're overpaid but their work ethics are hyper-drive like.


It’s always “I could’ve done better and made better choices instead of so and so” well if that’s the case why are you not in the hot seat running the company. It amazes me how people think CEOs shouldn’t be paid as much as they do and it’s a personal opinion that some just don’t get paid enough at all for the massive companies some of them run.
 
777luver
Posts: 166
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:44 am

Re: Air Canada’s CEO Calin Rovinescu to Retire Feb 2021

Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:35 pm

ElPistolero wrote:
777luver wrote:
ElPistolero wrote:

Blerg’s not wrong. Rovinescu has done great work on the financial and labour fronts, but the cost-cutting, particularly in Y, has been evident over the past decade.

The signature lounges and J product(s) introduced under him are generally very good, but the vast, vast majority of AC pax fly in Y, and the reviews have been uniformly bad.

Take Skytrax. Notwithstanding it’s questionable methodology (“consulting fees”), it’s own website points to poor customer satisfaction (mainline - 4/10; rouge - 3/10). (For context, DL gets 5/10 hence methodology issues.)

https://www.airlinequality.com/airline- ... ir-canada/
https://www.airlinequality.com/airline- ... ada-rouge/

More reputable firms like JD Power tell a similar tale.
On the international front, it puts AC at below average.

- On TPAC, AC is joined in the sub-par “the rest” category by UA, AA and MU.
- On TATL, it is one of two sub-par airlines, the other being a ULCC (DY).

https://www.jdpower.com/business/press- ... tion-study

The North American surveys aren’t better. AC finds itself below average, and in the esteemed company of ULCC’s Frontier and Spirit.

https://www.jdpower.com/business/press- ... tion-study

Which is to say, the record profits go hand-in-hand with cost cutting, and the vast majority of AC pax have experienced it across the board. It prompted the whole air passenger rights thing, and some of the criticism seems to have stung Rovinescu enough pre-COVID to prompt this February 2020 announcement:

“This spring, we will launch a redesigned interna­tional Economy Class meal service. We are intro­ducing hot-towel service, new beverage selections including a sparkling-wine cocktail, a chef-inspired meal choice, healthier green salad, a separate dessert service, and yogurt and fruit for break­fast. “

https://www.aircanada.com/content/airca ... isine.html

He’s taken AC on quite the journey since 2009. Some good; some not so good. Profits have gone up and the J experience has improved, but 2019 AC would struggle to make the Y pax experience any worse.

I think he’s smart to walk away now. Nobody knows what’s coming next; we may well be at an inflection point for air travel. He’s done his bit to leave AC in a financially solid position. The next guy can figure out how to deal with evolving customer expectations and travel patterns.

That said, his immense success as a first-generation immigrant is worthy of respect even from detractors. His self-admitted source of his drive - the immigrant’s fear of losing everything they’ve achieved - resonates with many immigrants. Disagree with him on a lot, but can only admire and learn from the way he fought his corner.


Can you elaborate on what cost cutting measures you think they’ve done in mainline Y over the last decade?


Gladly:

- The banana / spiced bread-like ...thing for breakfast. Dates back to at least 2012. I recall a time when AC offered more than that for “continental breakfast”
- Crunching Y economy to make room for extra legroom seats on the domestic birds
- 30” pitch on 787s that do 14 hour flights, with correspondingly less recline than all of the airlines ranked above it. I think the 777s are also in that club now. (I’ll gloss over the 3-4-3 thing because that’s all the rage everywhere; the 30 inch/minimal recline is not).
- General Y catering for the past decade - about the most miserly in the world (don’t believe me - look at images of LH or AF Y meals)
- no Y blankets on offer on Transcontinental Y+ (that would be premium economy on the WBs) red eyes. I include it because AC treats it as part of the Y cabin (can’t even be bothered to close the curtain. And those Monty wraps as a second meal on TATL)
- Cleanliness (I can send you a link by private message - it links or a frequent flyer site you’re probably familiar with, where travellers have posted pictures).
- OTP - one of the worst in the world thanks to the cost-driven emphasis on aircraft utilization and the corresponding refusal to use adequate block times (https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/west- ... 54688.html).

Those just came to mind straight off the bat from my Y/Y+ experiences. I can probably think up some more, but what would be the point? These are all the less attractive part of Rovinescu’s legacy.

Note that I’ve taken your cue and avoided including AC Rouge, with its stellar reputation. It’s part of the AC Y experience - not sure why we should pretend otherwise. Was Rovinescu not involved in that?


I do agree the banana bread is a not enough no doubt. It’s probably the number 1 complaint in the food department. The meals are definitely small but the quantity is there. Like a lot of things in aviation it’s subjective. I’ve heard stories about LH and AF catering being terrible. We could have a convo all day on it.

As for crunching more seats in, other than DL what airline North American carrier hasn’t? Not disagreeing it can be uncomfortable. But again I’ve heard the same about UA and AA.....

They don’t close the curtain because I’m guessing it allows for continuity of what I’m not sure just a guess.

Now when it comes to cabin cleanliness I’m sure passengers would rather make their tight connection then worry about an extra clean plane. Having said that no doubt the airplanes were filthy at times not discounting that.

I could def see OTP being affected by the winter climate Canada gets. A lot of those other airlines in that study don’t have to deal with the extremely harsh and cold winters that we have for 6 months of the year..... it makes OTP difficult as it is. Can’t say it doesn’t affect OTP when you have a foot of snow on the ground and the airport can barely keep up with winter ops and deicing. And WestJet doesn’t have the same number of aircraft that AC has.
 
ElPistolero
Posts: 2117
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:44 am

Re: Air Canada’s CEO Calin Rovinescu to Retire Feb 2021

Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:17 am

777luver wrote:

I do agree the banana bread is a not enough no doubt. It’s probably the number 1 complaint in the food department. The meals are definitely small but the quantity is there. Like a lot of things in aviation it’s subjective. I’ve heard stories about LH and AF catering being terrible. We could have a convo all day on it.


Just going to point out that AC had announced an economy meal overhaul in February. CR doesn’t strike me as the type to invest in Y unless he sees an RoI. Suggests that this was aimed at addressing an identified problem, rather than being a solution in search of a problem.

777luver wrote:
As for crunching more seats in, other than DL what airline North American carrier hasn’t? Not disagreeing it can be uncomfortable. But again I’ve heard the same about UA and AA.....


You asked for cost-cutting measures - that’s one of them. The 30” pitch 787 being deployed on 15 hour flights is a special type of ... bad. I’m pretty sure it’s in the minority there - perhaps DY.

777luver wrote:
They don’t close the curtain because I’m guessing it allows for continuity of what I’m not sure just a guess.


Besides the point. Not offering Y blankets on a $1800 transcon red eye on the other hand ... or for that matter offering that bread-like thing (it isn’t “bread” by any objective measure) as PY breakfast. And then there’s Y. Thats not to say it isn’t a successful model - AC is/was making good money.

To be clear, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with CR positioning AC to capitalize on the DY/FR crowd and Y spillover from better carriers - it’s a smart play under certain market conditions (e.g. when demand outstrips supply). Let’s just not pretend that CR has made it a top carrier for the vast majority of its pax (who fly in Y).

777luver wrote:
Now when it comes to cabin cleanliness I’m sure passengers would rather make their tight connection then worry about an extra clean plane. Having said that no doubt the airplanes were filthy at times not discounting that.


Bit of a false dichotomy. LX, LH etc keep their planes clean and allow for 45 min MCTs. Doing LH Canada-MUC-EU is an altogether different proposition to flying AC anywhere-AC hub-domestic. Connecting from LH to AC in PY or Y can be jarring in terms of upkeep (seat condition) and cleanliness. Occam’s razor suggests it’s simply down to cost-cutting.

777luver wrote:
I could def see OTP being affected by the winter climate Canada gets. A lot of those other airlines in that study don’t have to deal with the extremely harsh and cold winters that we have for 6 months of the year..... it makes OTP difficult as it is. Can’t say it doesn’t affect OTP when you have a foot of snow on the ground and the airport can barely keep up with winter ops and deicing. And WestJet doesn’t have the same number of aircraft that AC has.


This is year-round OTP. WS was at 80%. Besides, winter in Canada has been a known phenomenon since aviation came to Canada. OTP has been pretty bad for years. 2019 was worse YoY than 2018 and so on. That’s down to a calculated decision to cut aircraft downtime to a minimum. It’s fine insofar as it hasn’t hurt AC’s bottom line so far, but it won’t win plaudits. (I personally found it amusing when AC pilots tried to blame Eurocontrol for departure delays after AC ended up in the penalty box due to a late inbound into the EU forcing it to miss its departure slot, so some plaudits haha)

Anyway, I don’t know why CR chose now to leave, but it makes good sense from his perspective. The post-COVID market is going to be unpredictable. We don’t know which way J travel is going to go. We don’t know what Y demand is going to look like for a few years. And, crucially, we don’t know how the demand/supply equation will change for Canada.

If demand recedes and international carriers act aggressively - particularly the TK/AI types who’re looking at launching new routes to Canada even now - the current AC strategy of counting on Y overspill to offset the negative effects of a low-cost Y product might need a rethink. Eminently sensible that it happens under someone who hasn’t been wedded to that strategy for a decade. What worked in 2019 may not work in 2021 etc.
 
Absimilliard
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:42 am

Re: Air Canada’s CEO Calin Rovinescu to Retire Feb 2021

Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:36 am

My main issues with the meals in Y on AC were out of the ex CARA/Gate Gourmet stations in Canada. The awful CARA special of mystery beef or mystery chicken in sauce served out of YUL is something I can't stomach a bite more now. Other stations are better, but the catering in Canada in Y drags the brand down.
 
hooverman
Posts: 325
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:20 pm

Re: Air Canada’s CEO Calin Rovinescu to Retire Feb 2021

Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:53 am

ElPistolero wrote:
777luver wrote:

I do agree the banana bread is a not enough no doubt. It’s probably the number 1 complaint in the food department. The meals are definitely small but the quantity is there. Like a lot of things in aviation it’s subjective. I’ve heard stories about LH and AF catering being terrible. We could have a convo all day on it.


Just going to point out that AC had announced an economy meal overhaul in February. CR doesn’t strike me as the type to invest in Y unless he sees an RoI. Suggests that this was aimed at addressing an identified problem, rather than being a solution in search of a problem.

777luver wrote:
As for crunching more seats in, other than DL what airline North American carrier hasn’t? Not disagreeing it can be uncomfortable. But again I’ve heard the same about UA and AA.....


You asked for cost-cutting measures - that’s one of them. The 30” pitch 787 being deployed on 15 hour flights is a special type of ... bad. I’m pretty sure it’s in the minority there - perhaps DY.

777luver wrote:
They don’t close the curtain because I’m guessing it allows for continuity of what I’m not sure just a guess.


Besides the point. Not offering Y blankets on a $1800 transcon red eye on the other hand ... or for that matter offering that bread-like thing (it isn’t “bread” by any objective measure) as PY breakfast. And then there’s Y. Thats not to say it isn’t a successful model - AC is/was making good money.

To be clear, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with CR positioning AC to capitalize on the DY/FR crowd and Y spillover from better carriers - it’s a smart play under certain market conditions (e.g. when demand outstrips supply). Let’s just not pretend that CR has made it a top carrier for the vast majority of its pax (who fly in Y).

777luver wrote:
Now when it comes to cabin cleanliness I’m sure passengers would rather make their tight connection then worry about an extra clean plane. Having said that no doubt the airplanes were filthy at times not discounting that.


Bit of a false dichotomy. LX, LH etc keep their planes clean and allow for 45 min MCTs. Doing LH Canada-MUC-EU is an altogether different proposition to flying AC anywhere-AC hub-domestic. Connecting from LH to AC in PY or Y can be jarring in terms of upkeep (seat condition) and cleanliness. Occam’s razor suggests it’s simply down to cost-cutting.

777luver wrote:
I could def see OTP being affected by the winter climate Canada gets. A lot of those other airlines in that study don’t have to deal with the extremely harsh and cold winters that we have for 6 months of the year..... it makes OTP difficult as it is. Can’t say it doesn’t affect OTP when you have a foot of snow on the ground and the airport can barely keep up with winter ops and deicing. And WestJet doesn’t have the same number of aircraft that AC has.


This is year-round OTP. WS was at 80%. Besides, winter in Canada has been a known phenomenon since aviation came to Canada. OTP has been pretty bad for years. 2019 was worse YoY than 2018 and so on. That’s down to a calculated decision to cut aircraft downtime to a minimum. It’s fine insofar as it hasn’t hurt AC’s bottom line so far, but it won’t win plaudits. (I personally found it amusing when AC pilots tried to blame Eurocontrol for departure delays after AC ended up in the penalty box due to a late inbound into the EU forcing it to miss its departure slot, so some plaudits haha)

Anyway, I don’t know why CR chose now to leave, but it makes good sense from his perspective. The post-COVID market is going to be unpredictable. We don’t know which way J travel is going to go. We don’t know what Y demand is going to look like for a few years. And, crucially, we don’t know how the demand/supply equation will change for Canada.

If demand recedes and international carriers act aggressively - particularly the TK/AI types who’re looking at launching new routes to Canada even now - the current AC strategy of counting on Y overspill to offset the negative effects of a low-cost Y product might need a rethink. Eminently sensible that it happens under someone who hasn’t been wedded to that strategy for a decade. What worked in 2019 may not work in 2021 etc.


He is showing signs of fanboyism. Facts are hard to handle for them. You might as wel give up because he isn’t.
 
TObound
Posts: 785
Joined: Mon May 27, 2019 12:54 am

Re: Air Canada’s CEO Calin Rovinescu to Retire Feb 2021

Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:20 am

Air Canada bites for anybody who isn't getting J paid for on the corporate dime.

As a customer faced with limited choice thanks to our heavily protected market, I'm glad Rovinescu is gone. I pray Rosseau won't find more cuts to Y to win over shareholders. Waiting for all the 330 fleets to standardize around Air Transat's density after the merger.
 
SwissCanuck
Posts: 242
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:06 am

Re: Air Canada’s CEO Calin Rovinescu to Retire Feb 2021

Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:47 am

Blerg wrote:
So what exactly has he done for the airline? I am genuinely interested in finding out. I see in their 2019 financial report that their income and profits grew, debt was considerably reduced but from what I heard the overall flying experience with them is not that great. From a passenger's perspective at least.


I believe the accolades are more from a shareholder perspective.

Yes AC Economy has become easyJet at best, to be avoided on anything but the 330 or narrowbodies (so long 763 :cry2: ). In fact I prefer the food on easyJet. The premium products remain relatively competitive.
 
777luver
Posts: 166
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:44 am

Re: Air Canada’s CEO Calin Rovinescu to Retire Feb 2021

Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:02 pm

hooverman wrote:
ElPistolero wrote:
777luver wrote:

I do agree the banana bread is a not enough no doubt. It’s probably the number 1 complaint in the food department. The meals are definitely small but the quantity is there. Like a lot of things in aviation it’s subjective. I’ve heard stories about LH and AF catering being terrible. We could have a convo all day on it.


Just going to point out that AC had announced an economy meal overhaul in February. CR doesn’t strike me as the type to invest in Y unless he sees an RoI. Suggests that this was aimed at addressing an identified problem, rather than being a solution in search of a problem.

777luver wrote:
As for crunching more seats in, other than DL what airline North American carrier hasn’t? Not disagreeing it can be uncomfortable. But again I’ve heard the same about UA and AA.....


You asked for cost-cutting measures - that’s one of them. The 30” pitch 787 being deployed on 15 hour flights is a special type of ... bad. I’m pretty sure it’s in the minority there - perhaps DY.

777luver wrote:
They don’t close the curtain because I’m guessing it allows for continuity of what I’m not sure just a guess.


Besides the point. Not offering Y blankets on a $1800 transcon red eye on the other hand ... or for that matter offering that bread-like thing (it isn’t “bread” by any objective measure) as PY breakfast. And then there’s Y. Thats not to say it isn’t a successful model - AC is/was making good money.

To be clear, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with CR positioning AC to capitalize on the DY/FR crowd and Y spillover from better carriers - it’s a smart play under certain market conditions (e.g. when demand outstrips supply). Let’s just not pretend that CR has made it a top carrier for the vast majority of its pax (who fly in Y).

777luver wrote:
Now when it comes to cabin cleanliness I’m sure passengers would rather make their tight connection then worry about an extra clean plane. Having said that no doubt the airplanes were filthy at times not discounting that.


Bit of a false dichotomy. LX, LH etc keep their planes clean and allow for 45 min MCTs. Doing LH Canada-MUC-EU is an altogether different proposition to flying AC anywhere-AC hub-domestic. Connecting from LH to AC in PY or Y can be jarring in terms of upkeep (seat condition) and cleanliness. Occam’s razor suggests it’s simply down to cost-cutting.

777luver wrote:
I could def see OTP being affected by the winter climate Canada gets. A lot of those other airlines in that study don’t have to deal with the extremely harsh and cold winters that we have for 6 months of the year..... it makes OTP difficult as it is. Can’t say it doesn’t affect OTP when you have a foot of snow on the ground and the airport can barely keep up with winter ops and deicing. And WestJet doesn’t have the same number of aircraft that AC has.


This is year-round OTP. WS was at 80%. Besides, winter in Canada has been a known phenomenon since aviation came to Canada. OTP has been pretty bad for years. 2019 was worse YoY than 2018 and so on. That’s down to a calculated decision to cut aircraft downtime to a minimum. It’s fine insofar as it hasn’t hurt AC’s bottom line so far, but it won’t win plaudits. (I personally found it amusing when AC pilots tried to blame Eurocontrol for departure delays after AC ended up in the penalty box due to a late inbound into the EU forcing it to miss its departure slot, so some plaudits haha)

Anyway, I don’t know why CR chose now to leave, but it makes good sense from his perspective. The post-COVID market is going to be unpredictable. We don’t know which way J travel is going to go. We don’t know what Y demand is going to look like for a few years. And, crucially, we don’t know how the demand/supply equation will change for Canada.

If demand recedes and international carriers act aggressively - particularly the TK/AI types who’re looking at launching new routes to Canada even now - the current AC strategy of counting on Y overspill to offset the negative effects of a low-cost Y product might need a rethink. Eminently sensible that it happens under someone who hasn’t been wedded to that strategy for a decade. What worked in 2019 may not work in 2021 etc.


He is showing signs of fanboyism. Facts are hard to handle for them. You might as wel give up because he isn’t.


You’re absolutely right. Having said that, you can’t sit here and tell me what I’ve said is wrong either. There is not right or wrong.....Believe me AC is not the perfect airline but there is no perfect airline. Fanboy out
 
777luver
Posts: 166
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:44 am

Re: Air Canada’s CEO Calin Rovinescu to Retire Feb 2021

Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:02 pm

TObound wrote:
Air Canada bites for anybody who isn't getting J paid for on the corporate dime.

As a customer faced with limited choice thanks to our heavily protected market, I'm glad Rovinescu is gone. I pray Rosseau won't find more cuts to Y to win over shareholders. Waiting for all the 330 fleets to standardize around Air Transat's density after the merger.


What makes you think Rosseau will do anything different that Rovinescu didn’t?
 
777luver
Posts: 166
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:44 am

Re: Air Canada’s CEO Calin Rovinescu to Retire Feb 2021

Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:04 pm

Absimilliard wrote:
My main issues with the meals in Y on AC were out of the ex CARA/Gate Gourmet stations in Canada. The awful CARA special of mystery beef or mystery chicken in sauce served out of YUL is something I can't stomach a bite more now. Other stations are better, but the catering in Canada in Y drags the brand down.


Not wrong there
 
777luver
Posts: 166
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:44 am

Re: Air Canada’s CEO Calin Rovinescu to Retire Feb 2021

Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:07 pm

ElPistolero wrote:
777luver wrote:

I do agree the banana bread is a not enough no doubt. It’s probably the number 1 complaint in the food department. The meals are definitely small but the quantity is there. Like a lot of things in aviation it’s subjective. I’ve heard stories about LH and AF catering being terrible. We could have a convo all day on it.


Just going to point out that AC had announced an economy meal overhaul in February. CR doesn’t strike me as the type to invest in Y unless he sees an RoI. Suggests that this was aimed at addressing an identified problem, rather than being a solution in search of a problem.

777luver wrote:
As for crunching more seats in, other than DL what airline North American carrier hasn’t? Not disagreeing it can be uncomfortable. But again I’ve heard the same about UA and AA.....


You asked for cost-cutting measures - that’s one of them. The 30” pitch 787 being deployed on 15 hour flights is a special type of ... bad. I’m pretty sure it’s in the minority there - perhaps DY.

777luver wrote:
They don’t close the curtain because I’m guessing it allows for continuity of what I’m not sure just a guess.


Besides the point. Not offering Y blankets on a $1800 transcon red eye on the other hand ... or for that matter offering that bread-like thing (it isn’t “bread” by any objective measure) as PY breakfast. And then there’s Y. Thats not to say it isn’t a successful model - AC is/was making good money.

To be clear, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with CR positioning AC to capitalize on the DY/FR crowd and Y spillover from better carriers - it’s a smart play under certain market conditions (e.g. when demand outstrips supply). Let’s just not pretend that CR has made it a top carrier for the vast majority of its pax (who fly in Y).

777luver wrote:
Now when it comes to cabin cleanliness I’m sure passengers would rather make their tight connection then worry about an extra clean plane. Having said that no doubt the airplanes were filthy at times not discounting that.


Bit of a false dichotomy. LX, LH etc keep their planes clean and allow for 45 min MCTs. Doing LH Canada-MUC-EU is an altogether different proposition to flying AC anywhere-AC hub-domestic. Connecting from LH to AC in PY or Y can be jarring in terms of upkeep (seat condition) and cleanliness. Occam’s razor suggests it’s simply down to cost-cutting.

777luver wrote:
I could def see OTP being affected by the winter climate Canada gets. A lot of those other airlines in that study don’t have to deal with the extremely harsh and cold winters that we have for 6 months of the year..... it makes OTP difficult as it is. Can’t say it doesn’t affect OTP when you have a foot of snow on the ground and the airport can barely keep up with winter ops and deicing. And WestJet doesn’t have the same number of aircraft that AC has.


This is year-round OTP. WS was at 80%. Besides, winter in Canada has been a known phenomenon since aviation came to Canada. OTP has been pretty bad for years. 2019 was worse YoY than 2018 and so on. That’s down to a calculated decision to cut aircraft downtime to a minimum. It’s fine insofar as it hasn’t hurt AC’s bottom line so far, but it won’t win plaudits. (I personally found it amusing when AC pilots tried to blame Eurocontrol for departure delays after AC ended up in the penalty box due to a late inbound into the EU forcing it to miss its departure slot, so some plaudits haha)

Anyway, I don’t know why CR chose now to leave, but it makes good sense from his perspective. The post-COVID market is going to be unpredictable. We don’t know which way J travel is going to go. We don’t know what Y demand is going to look like for a few years. And, crucially, we don’t know how the demand/supply equation will change for Canada.

If demand recedes and international carriers act aggressively - particularly the TK/AI types who’re looking at launching new routes to Canada even now - the current AC strategy of counting on Y overspill to offset the negative effects of a low-cost Y product might need a rethink. Eminently sensible that it happens under someone who hasn’t been wedded to that strategy for a decade. What worked in 2019 may not work in 2021 etc.


Your points are all valid, can’t argue or disagree with them honestly. I will say let’s hope those economy “enhancements” happen in the future, I see it as fixing an identified problem but that remains to be seen as if they do go ahead with those enhancements in the future it won’t be for awhile now whenever that is. Especially with a new CEO coming in
 
777luver
Posts: 166
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:44 am

Re: Air Canada’s CEO Calin Rovinescu to Retire Feb 2021

Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:09 pm

hooverman wrote:
ElPistolero wrote:
777luver wrote:

I do agree the banana bread is a not enough no doubt. It’s probably the number 1 complaint in the food department. The meals are definitely small but the quantity is there. Like a lot of things in aviation it’s subjective. I’ve heard stories about LH and AF catering being terrible. We could have a convo all day on it.


Just going to point out that AC had announced an economy meal overhaul in February. CR doesn’t strike me as the type to invest in Y unless he sees an RoI. Suggests that this was aimed at addressing an identified problem, rather than being a solution in search of a problem.

777luver wrote:
As for crunching more seats in, other than DL what airline North American carrier hasn’t? Not disagreeing it can be uncomfortable. But again I’ve heard the same about UA and AA.....


You asked for cost-cutting measures - that’s one of them. The 30” pitch 787 being deployed on 15 hour flights is a special type of ... bad. I’m pretty sure it’s in the minority there - perhaps DY.

777luver wrote:
They don’t close the curtain because I’m guessing it allows for continuity of what I’m not sure just a guess.


Besides the point. Not offering Y blankets on a $1800 transcon red eye on the other hand ... or for that matter offering that bread-like thing (it isn’t “bread” by any objective measure) as PY breakfast. And then there’s Y. Thats not to say it isn’t a successful model - AC is/was making good money.

To be clear, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with CR positioning AC to capitalize on the DY/FR crowd and Y spillover from better carriers - it’s a smart play under certain market conditions (e.g. when demand outstrips supply). Let’s just not pretend that CR has made it a top carrier for the vast majority of its pax (who fly in Y).

777luver wrote:
Now when it comes to cabin cleanliness I’m sure passengers would rather make their tight connection then worry about an extra clean plane. Having said that no doubt the airplanes were filthy at times not discounting that.


Bit of a false dichotomy. LX, LH etc keep their planes clean and allow for 45 min MCTs. Doing LH Canada-MUC-EU is an altogether different proposition to flying AC anywhere-AC hub-domestic. Connecting from LH to AC in PY or Y can be jarring in terms of upkeep (seat condition) and cleanliness. Occam’s razor suggests it’s simply down to cost-cutting.

777luver wrote:
I could def see OTP being affected by the winter climate Canada gets. A lot of those other airlines in that study don’t have to deal with the extremely harsh and cold winters that we have for 6 months of the year..... it makes OTP difficult as it is. Can’t say it doesn’t affect OTP when you have a foot of snow on the ground and the airport can barely keep up with winter ops and deicing. And WestJet doesn’t have the same number of aircraft that AC has.


This is year-round OTP. WS was at 80%. Besides, winter in Canada has been a known phenomenon since aviation came to Canada. OTP has been pretty bad for years. 2019 was worse YoY than 2018 and so on. That’s down to a calculated decision to cut aircraft downtime to a minimum. It’s fine insofar as it hasn’t hurt AC’s bottom line so far, but it won’t win plaudits. (I personally found it amusing when AC pilots tried to blame Eurocontrol for departure delays after AC ended up in the penalty box due to a late inbound into the EU forcing it to miss its departure slot, so some plaudits haha)

Anyway, I don’t know why CR chose now to leave, but it makes good sense from his perspective. The post-COVID market is going to be unpredictable. We don’t know which way J travel is going to go. We don’t know what Y demand is going to look like for a few years. And, crucially, we don’t know how the demand/supply equation will change for Canada.

If demand recedes and international carriers act aggressively - particularly the TK/AI types who’re looking at launching new routes to Canada even now - the current AC strategy of counting on Y overspill to offset the negative effects of a low-cost Y product might need a rethink. Eminently sensible that it happens under someone who hasn’t been wedded to that strategy for a decade. What worked in 2019 may not work in 2021 etc.


He is showing signs of fanboyism. Facts are hard to handle for them. You might as wel give up because he isn’t.


I also never disagreed with what ElPistolero said, facts are facts just providing a different perspective. Fanboy out
 
Ishrion
Posts: 3052
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: Air Canada to Offer All-Premium Flights

Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:58 pm

Air Canada has announced more routes with this all-business A319:

Toronto to: Fort Lauderdale, West Palm Beach, Fort Myers, Barbados, Cancun, Kelowna and Vancouver.
Vancouver to: Phoenix, Palm Springs and Puerto Vallarta.
Montreal to: Fort Lauderdale and Barbados.

https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2020-10 ... stinations
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4322
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

Re: Air Canada’s CEO Calin Rovinescu to Retire Feb 2021

Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:50 am

As much as I think Air Canada has stopped innovating, especially on the network side, and mid-management team is complacent that could only be afforded in cosy duopolies, I think Calin did a fantastic job in turning AC around. Without the sustained unit cost decreases, AC would never have been able to have the right tools to be competitive in the global landscape. He will be missed, but he has written a truly great chapter to be proud of.

Saludos,
Alex
Live, and let live.
 
Airlinerdude
Posts: 205
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:07 am

Re: Air Canada’s CEO Calin Rovinescu to Retire Feb 2021

Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:46 am

abrelosojos wrote:
As much as I think Air Canada has stopped innovating, especially on the network side


Just out of curiosity, what else should AC have done? I personally think that they've done a great job at innovating within the AC brand (through Rouge) and reaching many destinations that I never thought they would. The rest I completely agree with, Rovinescu has done a fantastic job at turning around a once struggling AC.

I'll be the first to call out AC on the stuff they pull and those with an inherent bias blindly supporting them, but I'll also be the first to admit that Rovinescu (and until recently Ben Smith) have done a great job at creating a strong business during their tenure.
 
boeing767300
Posts: 95
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:17 pm

Re: Air Canada to Offer All-Premium Flights

Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:07 pm

Smart move pending the resumption of the NHL season. Meanwhile Canada narrowly avoided a general election yesterday. Most political analysts feel that there will be a federal election in the coming months. If that happens then two aircraft will have a purpose for a few weeks. Conservatives and NDP usually use AC and the Liberals Air Transat.
 
airzona11
Posts: 1784
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:44 am

Re: Air Canada to Offer All-Premium Flights

Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:10 pm

I am looking at dummy bookings to try and get it. Just need Canada to reduce that 15 day minimum trip requirement.
 
User avatar
dennypayne
Posts: 334
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:38 am

Re: Air Canada to Offer All-Premium Flights

Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:14 pm

airzona11 wrote:
I am looking at dummy bookings to try and get it. Just need Canada to reduce that 15 day minimum trip requirement.


Does it count as arriving in Canada if you just turn around and take the return flight and don't go through customs? I'd do it just to get a ride on these.
A300/310/319/320/321/332/333/343/380 AN24/28/38/148 ARJ AT6/7 B190
B717/722/732/3/4/5/7/8/9 741/744/752/753/762/763/764/772/773/788/789
CR1/2/7/9 D8S D93/4/5 DHC2/3/7/8 D28/38 EMB/EM2/ER3/D/4/E70/75/90
F50/100 J31 L10 L4T M11/80/87/90 SF3 SU9 TU3/TU5 YK2
 
Whiteguy
Posts: 1572
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Re: Air Canada to Offer All-Premium Flights

Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:23 pm

dennypayne wrote:
airzona11 wrote:
I am looking at dummy bookings to try and get it. Just need Canada to reduce that 15 day minimum trip requirement.


Does it count as arriving in Canada if you just turn around and take the return flight and don't go through customs? I'd do it just to get a ride on these.


Impossible, you must go through customs on arrival....
 
airzona11
Posts: 1784
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:44 am

Re: Air Canada to Offer All-Premium Flights

Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:28 pm

dennypayne wrote:
airzona11 wrote:
I am looking at dummy bookings to try and get it. Just need Canada to reduce that 15 day minimum trip requirement.


Does it count as arriving in Canada if you just turn around and take the return flight and don't go through customs? I'd do it just to get a ride on these.


haha i love it, i am with you. But with customs you cannot (not certain but think so). Miss the mileage run days!
 
User avatar
Antaras
Posts: 1009
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Re: Air Canada to Offer All-Premium Flights

Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:40 pm

Are those A319 coming from JetZ?
Do AC have any plan to retire those airframes as they are quite old now (all more than 22 years old).
If you disagree with my statement, assume that it was just a joke :duck:
 
Airlinerdude
Posts: 205
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:07 am

Re: Air Canada News And Discussion Thread

Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:22 pm

I recall when they tried this a few months ago, it wasn't overly successful. I was seeing loads of 2 or 3, maybe max 10 passengers per flight. The reviews on youtube corroborate this testimony. Hopefully it goes better the second time around!
 
9252fly
Posts: 1045
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:19 am

AC YYZ-DOH Effective 15DEC20

Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:58 pm

I was looking at the planned monthly operating schedules on the AC website and noticed this route addition subject to government approval. Service is planned for 3X weekly.

AC58 YYZ 2010 DOH 1640+1 B789

AC59 DOH 0840 YYZ 1505 B789

Not too sure what motivated AC to want to launch the route other than future plans by QR to offer additional service to Canada, and/or thinking outside of the box in these challenging times.
 
YYZORD
Posts: 521
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:26 pm

Re: AC YYZ-DOH Effective 15DEC20

Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:03 pm

QR is adding both YYZ and YVR thanks to the increase in the bilateral agreement giving them 7x weekly extra slots that will be divided between YYZ and YVR, 4x max per city. AC adding YYZ-DOH helps compliment QR's future DOH-YYZ route 4x weekly where DOH is served daily from YYZ.

9252fly wrote:
I was looking at the planned monthly operating schedules on the AC website and noticed this route addition subject to government approval. Service is planned for 3X weekly.

AC58 YYZ 2010 DOH 1640+1 B789

AC59 DOH 0840 YYZ 1505 B789

Not too sure what motivated AC to want to launch the route other than future plans by QR to offer additional service to Canada, and/or thinking outside of the box in these challenging times.
 
x1234
Posts: 944
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:50 pm

Re: AC YYZ-DOH Effective 15DEC20

Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:06 pm

Why are they flying to DOH which unlike DXB is not the regions primary business centre? Also in *A is the new IST airport where TK flies to more countries on earth than any other airline. I see AC flying to IST 1x weekly. They should bump that to 3-7x weekly for TK connections.
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 3013
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

Re: AC YYZ-DOH Effective 15DEC20

Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:06 pm

9252fly wrote:
I was looking at the planned monthly operating schedules on the AC website and noticed this route addition subject to government approval. Service is planned for 3X weekly.

AC58 YYZ 2010 DOH 1640+1 B789

AC59 DOH 0840 YYZ 1505 B789

Not too sure what motivated AC to want to launch the route other than future plans by QR to offer additional service to Canada, and/or thinking outside of the box in these challenging times.


They are going after Canada-South Asia VFR traffic. Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Pakistan, etc.

Although they won’t be able to sell India connections, due to the travel bubble restrictions.


YYZORD wrote:
QR is adding both YYZ and YVR thanks to the increase in the bilateral agreement giving them 7x weekly extra slots that will be divided between YYZ and YVR, 4x max per city. AC adding YYZ-DOH helps compliment QR's future DOH-YYZ route 4x weekly where DOH is served daily from YYZ.


Any source on this? The bilateral with Qatar has been updated several times already in the past couple of years. They got 1x more weekly frequency in 2018 (total of 4x weekly) and most likely 1x weekly more in 2019. It’s unlike the Canadian governement to give Qatar 7x more weekly frequencies like this.
Last edited by Thenoflyzone on Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:18 pm, edited 5 times in total.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
YYZORD
Posts: 521
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:26 pm

Re: AC YYZ-DOH Effective 15DEC20

Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:09 pm

They are still negotiating between where each slot goes which is why there is not an official announcement yet, my personal source is getting direct info on these negotiations between Canada and Qatar. Canadian government has offered QR the 7x weekly extension meaning 11x weekly QR service to Canada between YUL/YYZ/YVR, now it depends on what city gets 4 slots and what city gets 3 slots between YVR and YYZ. YUL will stay at 4x weekly. The AC service to DOH I assume is to compliment the future QR service to YYZ making DOH served daily from YYZ by both AC and QR.

Thenoflyzone wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
QR is adding both YYZ and YVR thanks to the increase in the bilateral agreement giving them 7x weekly extra slots that will be divided between YYZ and YVR, 4x max per city. AC adding YYZ-DOH helps compliment QR's future DOH-YYZ route 4x weekly where DOH is served daily from YYZ.


Any source on this? The bilateral with Qatar has been updated several times already in the past couple of years. They got 1x more weekly frequency in 2018 (tots of 4x weekly) and most likely 1x weekly more in 2019. It’s unlike the Canadian gouvernement to give Qatar 7x more weekly frequencies like this.
Last edited by YYZORD on Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
9252fly
Posts: 1045
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:19 am

Re: AC YYZ-DOH Effective 15DEC20

Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:10 pm

YYZORD wrote:
QR is adding both YYZ and YVR thanks to the increase in the bilateral agreement giving them 7x weekly extra slots that will be divided between YYZ and YVR, 4x max per city. AC adding YYZ-DOH helps compliment QR's future DOH-YYZ route 4x weekly where DOH is served daily from YYZ.

9252fly wrote:
I was looking at the planned monthly operating schedules on the AC website and noticed this route addition subject to government approval. Service is planned for 3X weekly.

AC58 YYZ 2010 DOH 1640+1 B789

AC59 DOH 0840 YYZ 1505 B789

Not too sure what motivated AC to want to launch the route other than future plans by QR to offer additional service to Canada, and/or thinking outside of the box in these challenging times.


TK was also to have started IST-YVR in June, seems they've deferred that to January. YVR will soon have some interesting additions to that region of the world.
 
flyyul
Posts: 4460
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

Re: AC YYZ-DOH Effective 15DEC20

Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:36 pm

YYZORD wrote:
They are still negotiating between where each slot goes which is why there is not an official announcement yet, my personal source is getting direct info on these negotiations between Canada and Qatar. Canadian government has offered QR the 7x weekly extension meaning 11x weekly QR service to Canada between YUL/YYZ/YVR, now it depends on what city gets 4 slots and what city gets 3 slots between YVR and YYZ. YUL will stay at 4x weekly. The AC service to DOH I assume is to compliment the future QR service to YYZ making DOH served daily from YYZ by both AC and QR.

Thenoflyzone wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
QR is adding both YYZ and YVR thanks to the increase in the bilateral agreement giving them 7x weekly extra slots that will be divided between YYZ and YVR, 4x max per city. AC adding YYZ-DOH helps compliment QR's future DOH-YYZ route 4x weekly where DOH is served daily from YYZ.


Any source on this? The bilateral with Qatar has been updated several times already in the past couple of years. They got 1x more weekly frequency in 2018 (tots of 4x weekly) and most likely 1x weekly more in 2019. It’s unlike the Canadian gouvernement to give Qatar 7x more weekly frequencies like this.


This is absolutely fake news. There is no truth to anything you’ve just said. You should tell your source how disappointing it is to be misled.
 
YYZORD
Posts: 521
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:26 pm

Re: AC YYZ-DOH Effective 15DEC20

Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:40 pm

seems very mature to go on an attacking mode, yes it is totally fake news to be this detail oriented on my comments?

flyyul wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
They are still negotiating between where each slot goes which is why there is not an official announcement yet, my personal source is getting direct info on these negotiations between Canada and Qatar. Canadian government has offered QR the 7x weekly extension meaning 11x weekly QR service to Canada between YUL/YYZ/YVR, now it depends on what city gets 4 slots and what city gets 3 slots between YVR and YYZ. YUL will stay at 4x weekly. The AC service to DOH I assume is to compliment the future QR service to YYZ making DOH served daily from YYZ by both AC and QR.

Thenoflyzone wrote:

Any source on this? The bilateral with Qatar has been updated several times already in the past couple of years. They got 1x more weekly frequency in 2018 (tots of 4x weekly) and most likely 1x weekly more in 2019. It’s unlike the Canadian gouvernement to give Qatar 7x more weekly frequencies like this.


This is absolutely fake news. There is no truth to anything you’ve just said. You should tell your source how disappointing it is to be misled.
 
flyyul
Posts: 4460
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

Re: AC YYZ-DOH Effective 15DEC20

Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:44 pm

YYZORD wrote:
seems very mature to go on an attacking mode, yes it is totally fake news to be this detail oriented on my comments?

flyyul wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
They are still negotiating between where each slot goes which is why there is not an official announcement yet, my personal source is getting direct info on these negotiations between Canada and Qatar. Canadian government has offered QR the 7x weekly extension meaning 11x weekly QR service to Canada between YUL/YYZ/YVR, now it depends on what city gets 4 slots and what city gets 3 slots between YVR and YYZ. YUL will stay at 4x weekly. The AC service to DOH I assume is to compliment the future QR service to YYZ making DOH served daily from YYZ by both AC and QR.



This is absolutely fake news. There is no truth to anything you’ve just said. You should tell your source how disappointing it is to be misled.


Well if we play the sources game - I can assure you mine are better than yours. I wouldn’t comment on this if nothing other than how outrageously wrong your “source” is. Qatar Airways will not be flying to YYZ or YVR for the foreseeable future.

Im still waiting on your ANA source as well.
 
YYZORD
Posts: 521
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:26 pm

Re: AC YYZ-DOH Effective 15DEC20

Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:50 pm

ANA was before covid hit so that is not under my control and that source was different from this one which is most of the time accurate, highly respected by many. For QR, all the information I got was just a month ago and said source has got future new routes correct in the past in terms of government negotiations. It's apparently very easy for me to make up something so detailed like this explaining the idea of the slot plans, what gain do I get for making up such information?

flyyul wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
seems very mature to go on an attacking mode, yes it is totally fake news to be this detail oriented on my comments?

flyyul wrote:

This is absolutely fake news. There is no truth to anything you’ve just said. You should tell your source how disappointing it is to be misled.


Well if we play the sources game - I can assure you mine are better than yours. I wouldn’t comment on this if nothing other than how outrageously wrong your “source” is. Qatar Airways will not be flying to YYZ or YVR for the foreseeable future.

Im still waiting on your ANA source as well.
 
flyyul
Posts: 4460
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

Re: AC YYZ-DOH Effective 15DEC20

Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:55 pm

YYZORD wrote:
ANA was before covid hit so that is not under my control and that source was different from this one which is most of the time accurate, highly respected by many. For QR, all the information I got was just a month ago and said source has got future new routes correct in the past in terms of government negotiations. It's apparently very easy for me to make up something so detailed like this explaining the idea of the slot plans, what gain do I get for making up such information?

flyyul wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
seems very mature to go on an attacking mode, yes it is totally fake news to be this detail oriented on my comments?



Well if we play the sources game - I can assure you mine are better than yours. I wouldn’t comment on this if nothing other than how outrageously wrong your “source” is. Qatar Airways will not be flying to YYZ or YVR for the foreseeable future.

Im still waiting on your ANA source as well.


ANA had no interest in YYZ and didn’t apply for Canada as part of the new slot allotment at Haneda. Qatar will not jump from 4 weekly flights to 11 or 15 weekly flights and launch 2 Canadian cities. For the record it took 8 years just to get 1 additional weekly frequency.

Again I wouldn’t bother to comment if it wasn’t for such exaggerated claims your source has convinced you of. It simply will not happen. Shall we revisit this is 3-6-12-18-24 months from today?
 
YYZORD
Posts: 521
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:26 pm

Re: AC YYZ-DOH Effective 15DEC20

Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:59 pm

Never once did I mention they were going to fly from Haneda, they were still in talks, it wasn't confirmed at the time that is why I mentioned "rumor." For QR, the Canadian government actually gave them a 7x weekly slot extension, it all depends on where QR wants to use the slots as they have to divide them between YVR/YYZ which is why there is no announcement as of yet.

flyyul wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
ANA was before covid hit so that is not under my control and that source was different from this one which is most of the time accurate, highly respected by many. For QR, all the information I got was just a month ago and said source has got future new routes correct in the past in terms of government negotiations. It's apparently very easy for me to make up something so detailed like this explaining the idea of the slot plans, what gain do I get for making up such information?

flyyul wrote:

Well if we play the sources game - I can assure you mine are better than yours. I wouldn’t comment on this if nothing other than how outrageously wrong your “source” is. Qatar Airways will not be flying to YYZ or YVR for the foreseeable future.

Im still waiting on your ANA source as well.


ANA had no interest in YYZ and didn’t apply for Canada as part of the new slot allotment at Haneda. I again don’t care for your source but it’s not true. Qatar will not jump from 4 weekly flights to 11 or 15 weekly flights and launch 2 Canadian cities. For the record it took 8 years just to get 1 additional weekly frequency.

Again I wouldn’t bother to comment if it wasn’t for such exaggerated claims your source has convinced you of. It simply will not happen.
 
flyyul
Posts: 4460
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

Re: AC YYZ-DOH Effective 15DEC20

Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:03 pm

YYZORD wrote:
Never once did I mention they were going to fly from Haneda, they were still in talks, it wasn't confirmed at the time that is why I mentioned "rumor." For QR, the Canadian government actually gave them a 7x weekly slot extension, it all depends on where QR wants to use the slots as they have to divide them between YVR/YYZ which is why there is no announcement as of yet.

flyyul wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
ANA was before covid hit so that is not under my control and that source was different from this one which is most of the time accurate, highly respected by many. For QR, all the information I got was just a month ago and said source has got future new routes correct in the past in terms of government negotiations. It's apparently very easy for me to make up something so detailed like this explaining the idea of the slot plans, what gain do I get for making up such information?



ANA had no interest in YYZ and didn’t apply for Canada as part of the new slot allotment at Haneda. I again don’t care for your source but it’s not true. Qatar will not jump from 4 weekly flights to 11 or 15 weekly flights and launch 2 Canadian cities. For the record it took 8 years just to get 1 additional weekly frequency.

Again I wouldn’t bother to comment if it wasn’t for such exaggerated claims your source has convinced you of. It simply will not happen.


No they didn’t get 7. They got a special designation to fly YYZ in July for repatriation flights. Qatar currently only has the right to 4 weekly flights in Canada.
 
YYZORD
Posts: 521
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:26 pm

Re: AC YYZ-DOH Effective 15DEC20

Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:09 pm

The discussions happened right after the reparation flights from July. This is info about negotiations that is currently going on at the moment.

flyyul wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
Never once did I mention they were going to fly from Haneda, they were still in talks, it wasn't confirmed at the time that is why I mentioned "rumor." For QR, the Canadian government actually gave them a 7x weekly slot extension, it all depends on where QR wants to use the slots as they have to divide them between YVR/YYZ which is why there is no announcement as of yet.

flyyul wrote:

ANA had no interest in YYZ and didn’t apply for Canada as part of the new slot allotment at Haneda. I again don’t care for your source but it’s not true. Qatar will not jump from 4 weekly flights to 11 or 15 weekly flights and launch 2 Canadian cities. For the record it took 8 years just to get 1 additional weekly frequency.

Again I wouldn’t bother to comment if it wasn’t for such exaggerated claims your source has convinced you of. It simply will not happen.


No they didn’t get 7. They got a special designation to fly YYZ in July for repatriation flights. Qatar currently only has the right to 4 weekly flights in Canada.
 
flyyul
Posts: 4460
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

Re: AC YYZ-DOH Effective 15DEC20

Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:14 pm

YYZORD wrote:
The discussions happened right after the reparation flights from July. This is info about negotiations that is currently going on at the moment.

flyyul wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
Never once did I mention they were going to fly from Haneda, they were still in talks, it wasn't confirmed at the time that is why I mentioned "rumor." For QR, the Canadian government actually gave them a 7x weekly slot extension, it all depends on where QR wants to use the slots as they have to divide them between YVR/YYZ which is why there is no announcement as of yet.



No they didn’t get 7. They got a special designation to fly YYZ in July for repatriation flights. Qatar currently only has the right to 4 weekly flights in Canada.


There are no negotiations and qatar does not have the rights to a daily flight to Canada currently. If there were negotiations it would be next to impossible to 3x or 4x the current bilateral. This is not a precedent in Canada and it most certainly will not happen in the way you suggest.

Shall we compare sources?
 
YYZORD
Posts: 521
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:26 pm

Re: AC YYZ-DOH Effective 15DEC20

Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:17 pm

It happened with TK for their YUL/YYZ/YVR routes as none of them are served daily, the slots are divided between the 3 airports, same idea for QR. Now AC wants to fly to DOH for connections codesharing with QR, same thing is happening here where QR will add the extra flights in addition to AC's YYZ-DOH route. I get QR is not *A but AC now codesharing outside of alliances, it makes perfect sense. YYZ-DOH doesn't have enough direct pax so connections are needed to fill the flights.

flyyul wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
The discussions happened right after the reparation flights from July. This is info about negotiations that is currently going on at the moment.

flyyul wrote:

No they didn’t get 7. They got a special designation to fly YYZ in July for repatriation flights. Qatar currently only has the right to 4 weekly flights in Canada.


There are no negotiations and qatar does not have the rights to a daily flight to Canada currently. If there were negotiations it would be next to impossible to 3x or 4x the current bilateral. This is not a precedent in Canada and it most certainly will not happen in the way you suggest.

Shall we compare sources?
 
flyyul
Posts: 4460
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

Re: AC YYZ-DOH Effective 15DEC20

Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:20 pm

YYZORD wrote:
It happened with TK for their YUL/YYZ/YVR routes as none of them are served daily, the slots are divided between the 3 airports, same idea for QR. Now AC wants to fly to DOH for connections codesharing with QR, same thing is happening here where QR will add the extra flights in addition to AC's YYZ-DOH route. I get QR is not *A but AC now codesharing outside of alliances, it makes perfect sense. YYZ-DOH doesn't have enough direct pax so connections are needed to fill the flights.

flyyul wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
The discussions happened right after the reparation flights from July. This is info about negotiations that is currently going on at the moment.





There are no negotiations and qatar does not have the rights to a daily flight to Canada currently. If there were negotiations it would be next to impossible to 3x or 4x the current bilateral. This is not a precedent in Canada and it most certainly will not happen in the way you suggest.

Shall we compare sources?


There is no relation between the two. Check your messages
 
CALMSP
Posts: 3346
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

Re: AC YYZ-DOH Effective 15DEC20

Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:29 pm

I mean, what in the world?!! Has to be some sort of reaction to QR as there is basically zero demand for pax to/from DOH as a destination.
 
clrd4t8koff
Posts: 1684
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:57 am

Re: AC YYZ-DOH Effective 15DEC20

Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:37 pm

CALMSP wrote:
I mean, what in the world?!! Has to be some sort of reaction to QR as there is basically zero demand for pax to/from DOH as a destination.


Lol, exactly. This is such an odd route with AC having no partner to connect anywhere beyond DOH.
 
Airlinerdude
Posts: 205
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:07 am

Re: AC YYZ-DOH Effective 15DEC20

Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:38 pm

Out of all the things to happen in 2020, this one is starting to take the cake. Never would have anticipated this in a regular year, let alone in 2020.

I noticed that the return time gives a 16 hour layover in DOH and isn't consistent with the return timings for neighbouring DXB. I wonder if this is indicative of DOH being a stopping point for something like KHI? It seems like Pakistan is getting quite a bit of attention lately from airlines.
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 3013
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

Re: AC YYZ-DOH Effective 15DEC20

Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:59 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
CALMSP wrote:
I mean, what in the world?!! Has to be some sort of reaction to QR as there is basically zero demand for pax to/from DOH as a destination.


Lol, exactly. This is such an odd route with AC having no partner to connect anywhere beyond DOH.


They are, at the very least, interlining with QR. Codeshares might happen too.

In fact, if you go to book YYZ-ISB or LHE on AC’s website on Dec 15, the first choice that comes up is YYZ-DOH-ISB/LHE.

I do agree that DOH is an odd choice, as it goes against AC’s strategy of feeding LH group via Europe, but AC’s main European partner airlines don’t serve Pakistan, Sri Lanka or Bangladesh like QR does.

AC is chasing revenue wherever it can find it, and right now, it’s all in leisure and VFR flights. South Asia has a lot of VFR demand from Canada, especially now, in peak winter season.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
777luver
Posts: 166
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:44 am

Re: AC YYZ-DOH Effective 15DEC20

Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:07 am

YYZ-DOH shows up as bookable so something is in the works
 
Ishrion
Posts: 3052
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: AC YYZ-DOH Effective 15DEC20

Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:27 am

CALMSP wrote:
I mean, what in the world?!! Has to be some sort of reaction to QR as there is basically zero demand for pax to/from DOH as a destination.


According to this, O&D between Toronto and Doha in 2019 was... 353 people.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/br ... z-bru-mru/

There's definitely gotta be something else here.
 
FabienA380
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:46 pm

Re: AC YYZ-DOH Effective 15DEC20

Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:45 am

x1234 wrote:
Why are they flying to DOH which unlike DXB is not the regions primary business centre? Also in *A is the new IST airport where TK flies to more countries on earth than any other airline. I see AC flying to IST 1x weekly. They should bump that to 3-7x weekly for TK connections.


YYZ-IST with Air Canada? where's that, are you sure?

On another reply I read "the future YYZ-DOH by QTR", this has already started since a little while already.
 
LH658
Posts: 1217
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:35 am

Re: AC YYZ-DOH Effective 15DEC20

Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:32 am

FabienA380 wrote:
x1234 wrote:
Why are they flying to DOH which unlike DXB is not the regions primary business centre? Also in *A is the new IST airport where TK flies to more countries on earth than any other airline. I see AC flying to IST 1x weekly. They should bump that to 3-7x weekly for TK connections.


YYZ-IST with Air Canada? where's that, are you sure?

On another reply I read "the future YYZ-DOH by QTR", this has already started since a little while already.



Does AC have any good relations with TK, does they codeshare?
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 3013
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

Re: AC YYZ-DOH Effective 15DEC20

Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:56 am

FabienA380 wrote:
x1234 wrote:
Why are they flying to DOH which unlike DXB is not the regions primary business centre? Also in *A is the new IST airport where TK flies to more countries on earth than any other airline. I see AC flying to IST 1x weekly. They should bump that to 3-7x weekly for TK connections.


YYZ-IST with Air Canada? where's that, are you sure?

On another reply I read "the future YYZ-DOH by QTR", this has already started since a little while already.


It’s a cargo flight. It flies YYZ-IST-YUL. 1x weekly.

https://www.aircanada.com/cargo/en/ship ... s-network/

Airlinerdude wrote:
Out of all the things to happen in 2020, this one is starting to take the cake. Never would have anticipated this in a regular year, let alone in 2020.

I noticed that the return time gives a 16 hour layover in DOH and isn't consistent with the return timings for neighbouring DXB. I wonder if this is indicative of DOH being a stopping point for something like KHI? It seems like Pakistan is getting quite a bit of attention lately from airlines.


I think it’s indicative that the same flight crew will
Operate the return to YYZ. Hence the long layover.

Don’t think you’ll see AC metal in Pakistan. Especially not KHI. Security issues there, unlike at ISB and LHE. This is why BA is flying to the two latter destinations but not the former, even though Karachi is a bigger market.
Last edited by Thenoflyzone on Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:06 am, edited 3 times in total.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
andrew1996
Posts: 77
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2020 6:41 pm

Re: AC YYZ-DOH Effective 15DEC20

Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:59 am

QR flew many flights for the Canadian gov during covid and kept YUL and even added in YUZ was partly to generate goodwill for the future and that is why they also were very focused on keeping services to Australia and now they are being rewarded is my view . QR did help a lot of Canadians by being willing to fly to Canada while other airlines reduced service and part of the reason was a long term buisness strategy.

Also, on air canada cargo I noticed a lot of destinations when you in input in your desired destination from yyz or even yvr involves QR cargo interline where presently AC sends the cargo to FRA to connect to QR to DOH and then onwards from there

AC flying to DOH is very likey driven by some agreement with QR on the passenger side or it’s a temporary cargo dependent route during covid. Didn’t AC recently sign a codeshare with EY though? My personal preference is for QR to join star alliance

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