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mcdu
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Passenger elevates altercation, involves DL Captain with no mask

Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:36 am

https://onemileatatime.com/maskless-delta-captain-confronts-passenger/

This is a bad look for DL. They have a banned a lot of customers for refusing to wear a mask. Yet this Captain is recorded in a very unflattering exchange with a passenger while not wearing a mask.

I wonder what type of training DL provides pilots in engaging customers in the cabin? Can’t imagine this supports DL corporate policy or image.
 
bennett123
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Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:49 am

Clear failure to co operate from the passenger.

She made it pretty clear what she would do after he went back to the cockpit.

Follow the rules and have a great flight.

Still she got her 15 minutes.
 
777luver
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Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:37 am

If the captain has to make an appearance to talk to a pax after some talking to by cabin crew, you know it’s serious. You’d better listen or you may be kicked off. Captain has final authority, if he feels it may create a situation later in flight or cause a disturbance he has the right to kick the pax off. She was pushing his buttons playing games, all she had to do was out the hat away but yet she kept pushing and not showing any signs of complying. Captain has to show he’s in charge regardless of how trivial it may appear.
 
VSMUT
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Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:10 am

The captain looks (and behaves) like he is about to have a heart attack.
 
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zeke
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Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:24 am

mcdu wrote:
This is a bad look for DL. They have a banned a lot of customers for refusing to wear a mask. Yet this Captain is recorded in a very unflattering exchange with a passenger while not wearing a mask.


For flight deck crew the DL policy I guess would say something like masks to be worn when outside the aircraft. We don’t wear masks in the flight deck as they are incompatible with quick donning oxygen masks or smoke hoods.

mcdu wrote:
I wonder what type of training DL provides pilots in engaging customers in the cabin? Can’t imagine this supports DL corporate policy or image.


Don’t really have a problem with what he said, for him to get out of the cockpit preflight in the highest workload period it’s already been escalated a fair way.

Personally I would have had the ground staff deal with it, keep everyone in the safety related roles from having an appearance of conflict. We need passenger trust and cooperation in an emergency.
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DalDC9Bos
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Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:27 am

I don’t see what the fuss is all about. I think the captain handled it not only in a professional way, but in a restrained and patient way. He didn’t have to have a dialogue with her. He could have just kicked her off.

In terms of a mask, he is the captain. His first and main duty is to fly the plane safely. Passengers are not equals to him and this kind of charade and defiance to cabin crew directives is not acceptable. And to those who politicize this on social media saying it was a race thing should be ashamed of themselves.
 
oldannyboy
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Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:27 am

I don't find the Captain to be either inpolite or aggressive, as some are stating. Yes, he is not wearing a mask, which is bad, but otherwise he is being very professional and explains the ins and outs, and asks the passenger to comply and give 'her word'. She instead is the one who clearly elects to be uncooperative and refuses to utter the simple word 'yes, I do'. I don't see where the issue is. Non event to me. #anotherrudeandentitledpassenger
 
bennett123
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Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:34 am

As you say, if she had made that promise then he was prepared to accept that she would do so.
 
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PM
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Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:46 am

Total sympathy with the Captain. In what kind of world would anyone think it appropriate or acceptable to wear a hat with FUCK written across it? With the RIGHT to freedom of speech goes RESPONSIBILITY.

And as for this being "white privilege"... Give me strength.
 
DLASFlyer
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Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:49 am

Situations like this aren't easy and these types of videos usually don't show important context from before recording started. The pilot probably could have handled it better. But hindsight is 2020.
 
RobertS975
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Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:13 am

The captain remained calm and reasonable. The woman kept pushing the boundaries. Off with her! No playing the race card here. This had nothing to do with race. It DID have to do with wearing a hat with the word "F*CK" written on it while on an airplane.
 
Max Q
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Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:37 am

Why is the Captain dealing with this in the first place?


This is a passenger problem, flight attendants and gate agents are trained to deal with these situations not pilots, things can go wrong very quickly, you could be assaulted, injured to the point where you could lose your medical and / or be legally vulnerable if you don’t deal with the situation perfectly.


As pilots it’s not in our job description and going back into the cabin without a mask shows poor judgment especially with everyone recording your actions.



No question the Captain has the authority to remove anyone from the aircraft but getting personally involved is a bad idea



Our policy is to let the cabin crew and gate personnel deal with the issue, I’ve had issues with problem passengers before and after being informed of a non co-operative passenger like this they were always removed.


Leave the problem on the ground
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
Airbuser
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Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:52 am

I have had a similar situation. In my instance it was a shirt. It was very offensive and causing a stir in the boarding process. This is easy. I called local operations where personnel are trained to deal with these situations. Conflict resolution officer from the local station dealt with the person who quickly became compliant by simply turning the shirt inside out.

I may add that I was called a racist by the offending person as they left the aircraft. I never even saw the passenger and to this day don’t know the race of the person who had to turn the shirt inside out.

There is very little decency in the good old USA these days.
I have little to no training in conflict resolution.
The Captain in the Delta situation did what he thought was right. It was resolved but now he is famous.
 
mcdu
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Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:46 pm

zeke wrote:
mcdu wrote:
This is a bad look for DL. They have a banned a lot of customers for refusing to wear a mask. Yet this Captain is recorded in a very unflattering exchange with a passenger while not wearing a mask.


For flight deck crew the DL policy I guess would say something like masks to be worn when outside the aircraft. We don’t wear masks in the flight deck as they are incompatible with quick donning oxygen masks or smoke hoods.

mcdu wrote:
I wonder what type of training DL provides pilots in engaging customers in the cabin? Can’t imagine this supports DL corporate policy or image.



Don’t really have a problem with what he said, for him to get out of the cockpit preflight in the highest workload period it’s already been escalated a fair way.

Personally I would have had the ground staff deal with it, keep everyone in the safety related roles from having an appearance of conflict. We need passenger trust and cooperation in an emergency.



My company masks are required at all times. Pilots are allowed to remove the masks when the cockpit door is closed. If we choose to wear one in flight it must be a surgical type mask not cloth. We wear masks in our planning areas, crew lounges, during walks rounds, in the simulator, training building and briefing rooms. I’m going to suspect DL has a similar policy.

This Captain acted like an overage child. His resources to deal with this are the trained customer service team. His failure to wear a mask and belittling of the customer by comparing her to a child is out of bounds. DL proudly boasts that it has banned 495 people for non compliance of masks rules. Will this Captain be party to that enforcement of company policy?
 
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Revelation
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Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:23 pm

PM wrote:
Total sympathy with the Captain. In what kind of world would anyone think it appropriate or acceptable to wear a hat with FUCK written across it? With the RIGHT to freedom of speech goes RESPONSIBILITY.

I don't know. In this world the 'f-word' just isn't that big a thing, not enough to get the captain out of the cockpit and into a passenger's face. He should be thinking about his checklist and his fuel state and let the ground staff sort this one out. And a ruckus because other pax or crew are standing their ground over a hat with the f-word on it seems to be a bit much. Let it go, you're not going to burn in hell because you see an offensive word on a hat. But yeah if I'm the pax I'm also not escalating the situation. Take the damn hat off and let's go fly. This is a shared space, not your living room. Try making a compromise. We all do it. You're not so special as to not need to make any compromises.

Max Q wrote:
Why is the Captain dealing with this in the first place?

This is a passenger problem, flight attendants and gate agents are trained to deal with these situations not pilots, things can go wrong very quickly, you could be assaulted, injured to the point where you could lose your medical and / or be legally vulnerable if you don’t deal with the situation perfectly.

As pilots it’s not in our job description and going back into the cabin without a mask shows poor judgment especially with everyone recording your actions.

No question the Captain has the authority to remove anyone from the aircraft but getting personally involved is a bad idea

Our policy is to let the cabin crew and gate personnel deal with the issue, I’ve had issues with problem passengers before and after being informed of a non co-operative passenger like this they were always removed.

Leave the problem on the ground

Agree 100%.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
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Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
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OA412
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Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:11 pm

mcdu wrote:
This Captain acted like an overage child. His resources to deal with this are the trained customer service team. His failure to wear a mask and belittling of the customer by comparing her to a child is out of bounds. DL proudly boasts that it has banned 495 people for non compliance of masks rules. Will this Captain be party to that enforcement of company policy?


Oh come on, you're just stirring the pot here. You're a captain and should be aware that if the captain was involved, that means it was escalated to him after ground staff were unable to deal with the problem. You're claiming the captain belittled the passenger by calling her a child, then go ahead and call him a child. As to the mask policy, I'm sure you're well aware DL will deal with this infraction given their policy.
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Polot
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Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:14 pm

OA412 wrote:
mcdu wrote:
This Captain acted like an overage child. His resources to deal with this are the trained customer service team. His failure to wear a mask and belittling of the customer by comparing her to a child is out of bounds. DL proudly boasts that it has banned 495 people for non compliance of masks rules. Will this Captain be party to that enforcement of company policy?


Oh come on, you're just stirring the pot here. You're a captain and should be aware that if the captain was involved, that means it was escalated to him after ground staff were unable to deal with the problem. You're claiming the captain belittled the passenger by calling her a child, then go ahead and call him a child. As to the mask policy, I'm sure you're well aware DL will deal with this infraction given their policy.

If a problem escalates to the point where ground staff are unable to deal with it then that is when you get police/security involved. Pilots are not necessarily any better at getting control of these situations than the ground staff is, they don’t have the proper training or equipment if necessary, and they probably shouldn’t go get personally involved with an escalated passenger.
Last edited by Polot on Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
reltney
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Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:16 pm

mcdu wrote:
zeke wrote:
mcdu wrote:
This is a bad look for DL. They have a banned a lot of customers for refusing to wear a mask. Yet this Captain is recorded in a very unflattering exchange with a passenger while not wearing a mask.


For flight deck crew the DL policy I guess would say something like masks to be worn when outside the aircraft. We don’t wear masks in the flight deck as they are incompatible with quick donning oxygen masks or smoke hoods.

mcdu wrote:
I wonder what type of training DL provides pilots in engaging customers in the cabin? Can’t imagine this supports DL corporate policy or image.



Don’t really have a problem with what he said, for him to get out of the cockpit preflight in the highest workload period it’s already been escalated a fair way.

Personally I would have had the ground staff deal with it, keep everyone in the safety related roles from having an appearance of conflict. We need passenger trust and cooperation in an emergency.



My company masks are required at all times. Pilots are allowed to remove the masks when the cockpit door is closed. If we choose to wear one in flight it must be a surgical type mask not cloth. We wear masks in our planning areas, crew lounges, during walks rounds, in the simulator, training building and briefing rooms. I’m going to suspect DL has a similar policy.

This Captain acted like an overage child. His resources to deal with this are the trained customer service team. His failure to wear a mask and belittling of the customer by comparing her to a child is out of bounds. DL proudly boasts that it has banned 495 people for non compliance of masks rules. Will this Captain be party to that enforcement of company policy?



You are not entirely correct. “The hat is in my lap” was not an option with the line of questions. Yes I will leave it off or I will not wear the hat in flight is a correct response . “In my lap” is not correct. So based on that alone, she cannot follow instructions....off she goes. Not even a discussion. Airline backs me and the feds plus the court. Been there, done that and I won and no cost to me. I was even paid for the 2 last trips.

If the flight attendants want a passenger off, they are off. Not a question. I make a call, The team Discusses it, I say” however the F/A wants it handled is how it’s going down. I NEVER leave my seat. Imagine how it looks if the F/As want a pax off and I over ride it. They have to deal with the idiot in the back, not me. It’s belittling to the F/As if I over ride a F/A over an obnoxious passenger. Not a discussion. I assemble the team, pax comes off, I push back. Done deal. I have overridden a flight attendant over another flight attendant and removed one of them. Easy peasy. Never even heard from the company about that...guess I was right.... it isn’t easy so don’t think I think that it is. It if I make a decision, it going to be quick and decisive without much discussion.


Back to the incident at hand. She is worse than a child. Only wrong thing the capt did is not wear his mask. FYI, we don’t have to wear masks in the sim or cockpit. I have not even ran across one who wanted to wear a mask.

Just another day in “ AS THE BEACON TURNS”... daytime airline soap opera...seen at airports across the world....
Knives don't kill people. People with knives kill people.
OUTLAW KNIVES.

I am a pilot, therefore I envy no one...
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:16 pm

Polot wrote:
OA412 wrote:
mcdu wrote:
This Captain acted like an overage child. His resources to deal with this are the trained customer service team. His failure to wear a mask and belittling of the customer by comparing her to a child is out of bounds. DL proudly boasts that it has banned 495 people for non compliance of masks rules. Will this Captain be party to that enforcement of company policy?


Oh come on, you're just stirring the pot here. You're a captain and should be aware that if the captain was involved, that means it was escalated to him after ground staff were unable to deal with the problem. You're claiming the captain belittled the passenger by calling her a child, then go ahead and call him a child. As to the mask policy, I'm sure you're well aware DL will deal with this infraction given their policy.

If a problem escalates to the point where ground staff are unable to deal with it then that is when you get police/security involved. Pilots are not necessarily any better at getting control of these situations than the ground staff is, they don’t have the proper training or equipment if necessary, and they probably shouldn’t go get personally involved with the situation.


After United using police to yank Dr Dao off the plane, airport police aren't as willing to do the job now...
From my cold, dead hands
 
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DL747400
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Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:20 pm

Except for not wearing a mask, there was absolutely nothing wrong with the response from this captain This passenger woman was seeking attention. Her goal was to make people notice her and for people to be made uncomfortable by the vulgar, disgusting language on the hat. But her behavior speaks as loud, or louder than the hat. She went out of her way to delay the flight and refused on multiple occasions to agree to not wear the hat for the duration of the flight.

People who do not know how to behave in polite society should not be allowed to fly. Let her find another way to her destination.

Remove the passenger, refund the ticket, let the airport police remove her from the terminal and dispatch the flight so that everyone else onboard can get to where they are going.

PM wrote:
Total sympathy with the Captain. In what kind of world would anyone think it appropriate or acceptable to wear a hat with FUCK written across it? With the RIGHT to freedom of speech goes RESPONSIBILITY.


:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: Very well said. Agree 150%

Revelation wrote:
I don't know. In this world the 'f-word' just isn't that big a thing, not enough to get the captain out of the cockpit and into a passenger's face.


Your statement points to the very core of the problem. It SHOULD be a big thing. Disgusting, vile, offensive words like that have no place on clothing and it says a great deal about anyone who would be willing to wear clothing with words like that in public.

This passenger is clearly demonstrating a lack of willingness to follow crew member instructions before the plane has even left the gate. Where the misbehavior end? Do you really want to have to deal with a problem situation or fighting amongst the passengers in the cabin once the flight is in the air?
Last edited by DL747400 on Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:47 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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flyiguy
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Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:24 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
Polot wrote:
OA412 wrote:

Oh come on, you're just stirring the pot here. You're a captain and should be aware that if the captain was involved, that means it was escalated to him after ground staff were unable to deal with the problem. You're claiming the captain belittled the passenger by calling her a child, then go ahead and call him a child. As to the mask policy, I'm sure you're well aware DL will deal with this infraction given their policy.

If a problem escalates to the point where ground staff are unable to deal with it then that is when you get police/security involved. Pilots are not necessarily any better at getting control of these situations than the ground staff is, they don’t have the proper training or equipment if necessary, and they probably shouldn’t go get personally involved with the situation.


After United using police to yank Dr Dao off the plane, airport police aren't as willing to do the job now...


The United incident were not Police Officers, they were security guards from the airport. They had zero authority to pull Dr Dao off the flight.

FLY
The opinions I post are of mine and mine alone, not of the airline I work for.
 
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PM
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Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:30 pm

Revelation wrote:
I don't know. In this world the 'f-word' just isn't that big a thing, not enough to get the captain out of the cockpit and into a passenger's face. He should be thinking about his checklist and his fuel state and let the ground staff sort this one out. And a ruckus because other pax or crew are standing their ground over a hat with the f-word on it seems to be a bit much. Let it go, you're not going to burn in hell because you see an offensive word on a hat.

Yes and no. The word in question is one I must use a hundred times a day. But I know when and how. I have a deputy who is a conservative Christian (I'm a liberal atheist) and I know that even a "Damn" or a "God!" offends her. So, obviously, I'm very careful what I say and when. It's called respect.

I once boarded a plane and a passenger strolled down the aisle wearing a T-shirt with CUNT written across it. (Let's see how tolerant the moderators are.) I just frowned but if, say, my mother had been sitting next to me, she would have been really upset.

Why do people need to be wantonly offensive? Just because they can?
 
LASVegan
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Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:41 pm

I agree that the person filming was an agitating, entitled brat who was way in the wrong but the Captain absolutely should have been wearing a mask. Regardless of ones personal opinion on mask usage, Delta has a staunch, rigid mask policy and the Captain not adhering to the policy is just a very bad look for Delta.

And for those of you saying the Captain was quelling a situation that required his quick attention and therefore absolved him from mask use, give me a break. This wasn’t an emergency, the plane wasn’t on fire, the person filming wasn’t physically or verbally threatening anyone (that we could see anyway). They had an inappropriate hat. Needed to be addressed: yes. Critical and time sensitive enough for the Captain to not require a mask, No.
Last edited by LASVegan on Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
DenverTed
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Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:45 pm

Do you like my hat?
I do not like that hat.
 
BENAir01
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Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:51 pm

It pains me to say this as a strong BLM supporter, but both parties are very in the wrong here. The Captain acted like a completely bratty three year old, and should have been wearing a mask. He could have handled the situation so much better. However, why wouldn't the woman just put the hat in her bag? She wasn't making any statement by going against the captain. She was just acting like a brat in her own way. Captain should have approached her in a polite way (with a mask on) and said "unfortunately it is company policy that no clothing with profanity or other insulting language be worn while on board. Would you please remove your hat and put it in your bag for the rest of the flight? My crew and all the passengers on board would really appreciate that." And been done with it.
Why is flying so expensive? And why is flying well so much more?
 
seat1a
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Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:55 pm

pardon my white privilege, but there are rules and guidelines, and reasonable expectations for what's proper. you knew it was going south when she replied it's in my lap. that's not an answer, nor a commitment, it's just prolonging a resolution to the problem.

hats off to the captain. stop lawlessness and stupidity!
 
DFW17L
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Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:05 pm

No mask? Oh, the horror.
 
DenverTed
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Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:05 pm

Since the supreme court decided that the FUCT brand may keep its name, I think it is very difficult to draw the lines around what words and images can be prohibited. A policy would have to specify all words and spellings, which is near impossible.
 
santi319
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Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:10 pm

Imagine our ancestors thinking what the future would look like and watching this.
 
richierich
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Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:14 pm

In my opinion, the Captain (or any crewmember) was right to ask the passenger to remove the hat. I agree with the decision. Admittedly we don't see the whole conversation or know what else transpired, but the optics are that it seemed to be handled poorly...the Captain not wearing a mask and being sort of a bully put this customer on the defensive right away. The pilot is not a cop, and while he shouldn't have to waste his time dealing with passengers who are not following directions, I think this could have been handled differently without getting to the point that it did. Perhaps this customer was just waiting to use the race card, or maybe not, but the Captain was certainly not a friendly professional in this little clip.
None shall pass!!!!
 
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Revelation
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Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:22 pm

PM wrote:
I once boarded a plane and a passenger strolled down the aisle wearing a T-shirt with CUNT written across it. (Let's see how tolerant the moderators are.) I just frowned but if, say, my mother had been sitting next to me, she would have been really upset.

Why do people need to be wantonly offensive? Just because they can?

The flip side of that is why decide to lose your cool over seeing a word written on a hat? Must you have that much control over everything in your eyesight? Why give away your power by letting yourself be triggered by a hat?

Yeah, it's a power move on the part of this lady -- she's asserting she can decide what goes on her body and what message it sends. And it's a power play on the part of the captain -- he's asserting he's not just in charge of getting us from A to B but also in charge of deciding who can wear what. Both are over-playing their roles.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
DenverTed
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Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:30 pm

I think a better demarcation would be if the door is open, the aircraft cabin is under jurisdiction of the airport. If the door is closed the aircraft is under jurisdiction of the captain. Dress code and behavior at this point could be dealt with by the full resources of the airline station and airport staff, without involving the captain who is preparing for the flight. If the airline dress code policy is so unclear that it requires the judgment of the captain, then they have bigger problems with an arbitrary and capricious policy.
 
speedbird2263
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Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:31 pm

Max Q wrote:
Why is the Captain dealing with this in the first place?


This is a passenger problem, flight attendants and gate agents are trained to deal with these situations not pilots, things can go wrong very quickly, you could be assaulted, injured to the point where you could lose your medical and / or be legally vulnerable if you don’t deal with the situation perfectly.


As pilots it’s not in our job description and going back into the cabin without a mask shows poor judgment especially with everyone recording your actions.



No question the Captain has the authority to remove anyone from the aircraft but getting personally involved is a bad idea



Our policy is to let the cabin crew and gate personnel deal with the issue, I’ve had issues with problem passengers before and after being informed of a non co-operative passenger like this they were always removed.


Leave the problem on the ground


I wholeheartedly concur with your line of reasoning here; In this day and age it is most appropos IMHO.
Straight'n Up 'N Fly Right Son
 
DenverTed
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Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:31 pm

Revelation wrote:
PM wrote:
I once boarded a plane and a passenger strolled down the aisle wearing a T-shirt with CUNT written across it. (Let's see how tolerant the moderators are.) I just frowned but if, say, my mother had been sitting next to me, she would have been really upset.

Why do people need to be wantonly offensive? Just because they can?

The flip side of that is why decide to lose your cool over seeing a word written on a hat? Must you have that much control over everything in your eyesight? Why give away your power by letting yourself be triggered by a hat?

Yeah, it's a power move on the part of this lady -- she's asserting she can decide what goes on her body and what message it sends. And it's a power play on the part of the captain -- he's asserting he's not just in charge of getting us from A to B but also in charge of deciding who can wear what. Both are over-playing their roles.

Should any word or image be allowed? Probably not, but, how to craft a policy that is subject to the same interpretation by everyone.
 
LASVegan
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2020 5:29 pm

Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:49 pm

DFW17L wrote:
No mask? Oh, the horror.

Again dummy, this has nothing to do with yours or anyone else’s personal take on masks, regardless of what the science says. The point is that Delta has one of the most stringent mask policies in the industry, banning people from DL for life that don’t comply on their second warning. The Captain not adhering to this policy to address a relatively benign passenger issues puts quite a bit of egg on his and Deltas face.
 
ozark1
Posts: 863
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 4:38 am

Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:51 pm

As a former flight attendant,anyone who had a cap on with the F WORD would be asked to remove it. Sure, it may not bother you personally, but there are children or younger people on board and I guarantee you someone would bring it to our attention if one of us didn’t notice it first.
The captain should have been wearing a mask. Period. The conversation has a sense of arrogance, especially since he kept reinforcing and restating questions. All he had to say was, “ We would greatly appreciate you removing your cap, which is profane, for the entirety of the flight.” If this person put it back on after takeoff, I would divert for her removal.
This very same thing happened to a flight I was working. My co worker noticed the “F word cap followed by the name of a political person”. He asked her to remove it. She threw a fit, but took it off for the flight. She asked for his name upon deplaning which we did not give, and said she was going to complain.
IMHO, our society is in a free fall of civility. This confrontation is a perfect example of the divisiveness that’s only going to get worse.
The captain lost credibility by not wearing a mask. The passenger should not have worn the cap.
 
727LOVER
Posts: 8633
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 12:22 am

Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:59 pm

I find this part OUTRAGEOUS

@Delta
Captain Dennis Reilly berated and embarrassed a member of our community. This kind of white privilege should not be tolerated. We demand a public apology and that this Pilot no longer be allowed to fly a Delta aircraft. #BlackLivesMatter #FlyingWhileBeingBlack #Delta



You may be big & bad in the streets, but on an airplane, you do what you're told. Don't like it, take Greyhound.
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
mcdu
Topic Author
Posts: 1656
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:01 pm

richierich wrote:
In my opinion, the Captain (or any crewmember) was right to ask the passenger to remove the hat. I agree with the decision. Admittedly we don't see the whole conversation or know what else transpired, but the optics are that it seemed to be handled poorly...the Captain not wearing a mask and being sort of a bully put this customer on the defensive right away. The pilot is not a cop, and while he shouldn't have to waste his time dealing with passengers who are not following directions, I think this could have been handled differently without getting to the point that it did. Perhaps this customer was just waiting to use the race card, or maybe not, but the Captain was certainly not a friendly professional in this little clip.


I was hesitant to use the cop comparison in my post. However, that is definitely the gist you get from that interaction. The “I don’t have to tell you”l really reflects poorly and reminds me of many of the cop videos floating around the internet. You don’t treat customers in that tone when they have not committed a crime.

There are a lot of people flying now that may not have flown recently or ever. Using a kinder tone would have gone a lot further to change the vector on this situation. The SWA pilot that had the issue with the customer that was deemed in too revealing attire did a great job of defusing the situation. The delta captain just poured fuel on the fire.

Stay in the cockpit. Do the job you are trained to do. If a removal of a passenger is required call the appropriate station staff to facilitate your decision.

I do hope Delta addresses this story. What a very bad image of their product. This on top of the DL FA questioning if someone was really deaf makes me think the deafness is on the part of DL crews to how to interact with customers.
 
mcdu
Topic Author
Posts: 1656
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:08 pm

seat1a wrote:
pardon my white privilege, but there are rules and guidelines, and reasonable expectations for what's proper. you knew it was going south when she replied it's in my lap. that's not an answer, nor a commitment, it's just prolonging a resolution to the problem.

hats off to the captain. stop lawlessness and stupidity!


How do you know this wasn’t a commitment. Her saying “it’s in my lap may be her way of conveying that she would keep it there.

She was being berated by an authority figure when she had committed no crime. Being a Captain and having Captains authority is not a license to be a bully. This Captain was a bully by any measure.
 
irelayer
Posts: 1129
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:34 pm

Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:21 pm

Is this really what we've sunk to? Having highly paid pilots enforcing dress code on flights? The fact that we are in a place where this situation even exists is sad in the first place. Both the Captain and the passenger in that video were both being very stubborn, which doesn't make the situation any better.
 
LASVegan
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2020 5:29 pm

Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:29 pm

PM wrote:
Total sympathy with the Captain. In what kind of world would anyone think it appropriate or acceptable to wear a hat with FUCK written across it? With the RIGHT to freedom of speech goes RESPONSIBILITY.

And as for this being "white privilege"... Give me strength.


And you just literally spelled out the word that you’re so offended by on a forum that minors could be reading. Where is your accountability?
 
User avatar
PM
Posts: 5307
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:05 pm

Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:11 pm

LASVegan wrote:
PM wrote:
Total sympathy with the Captain. In what kind of world would anyone think it appropriate or acceptable to wear a hat with FUCK written across it? With the RIGHT to freedom of speech goes RESPONSIBILITY.

And as for this being "white privilege"... Give me strength.


And you just literally spelled out the word that you’re so offended by on a forum that minors could be reading. Where is your accountability?

I was waiting for that. Far better, of course, to type F*CK then no one will know what I'm saying. :roll:

There is a profound difference between a gratuitous, wanton and unnecessary use of the word and stating it for what it is in the context of trying to make a serious point.

It's called having a grown up conversation.
 
777luver
Posts: 171
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:44 am

Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:27 pm

727LOVER wrote:
I find this part OUTRAGEOUS

@Delta
Captain Dennis Reilly berated and embarrassed a member of our community. This kind of white privilege should not be tolerated. We demand a public apology and that this Pilot no longer be allowed to fly a Delta aircraft. #BlackLivesMatter #FlyingWhileBeingBlack #Delta



You may be big & bad in the streets, but on an airplane, you do what you're told. Don't like it, take Greyhound.


There was a poster earlier who said DC’s BLM group demanded the captain be reprimanded, post got deleted needless to say
 
777luver
Posts: 171
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:44 am

Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:28 pm

mcdu wrote:
seat1a wrote:
pardon my white privilege, but there are rules and guidelines, and reasonable expectations for what's proper. you knew it was going south when she replied it's in my lap. that's not an answer, nor a commitment, it's just prolonging a resolution to the problem.

hats off to the captain. stop lawlessness and stupidity!


How do you know this wasn’t a commitment. Her saying “it’s in my lap may be her way of conveying that she would keep it there.

She was being berated by an authority figure when she had committed no crime. Being a Captain and having Captains authority is not a license to be a bully. This Captain was a bully by any measure.


Question, why are you so offended by the situation?
 
User avatar
Boeing757100
Posts: 322
Joined: Wed May 06, 2020 10:09 pm

Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:28 pm

DalDC9Bos wrote:
I don’t see what the fuss is all about. I think the captain handled it not only in a professional way, but in a restrained and patient way. He didn’t have to have a dialogue with her. He could have just kicked her off.

In terms of a mask, he is the captain. His first and main duty is to fly the plane safely. Passengers are not equals to him and this kind of charade and defiance to cabin crew directives is not acceptable. And to those who politicize this on social media saying it was a race thing should be ashamed of themselves.



Very well said. It is a felony offense to disrespect the crew like that passenger did. But, the captain still could of worn a mask...
The 757-MAX is happening tomorrow.
 
User avatar
75driver
Posts: 140
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:02 pm

Re: Passenger elevates altercation, involves DL Captain with no mask

Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:32 pm

There had to be more going on to get the Capt out of his seat. I only had to do so a few times and if it wasn’t resolved in the first couple sentences the passenger was off the aircraft. The only mistake the Capt made was engaging someone who was obviously looking to make a scene. He should have realized it was going downhill the minute she didn’t answer his question and kicked her off. Should have taken max 1 minute, gone.
 
bennett123
Posts: 10073
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Passenger elevates altercation, involves DL Captain with no mask

Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:45 pm

Amazed that BLM got involved in the first place.

Is this the biggest issue faced by the BAME community?.
 
Miamiairport
Posts: 741
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:14 pm

Re: Passenger elevates altercation, involves DL Captain with no mask

Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:11 pm

More current day stupidity. The only things I want out of the Captain are to fly the plane safely and communicate on delays (an issue with AA).
 
travelsonic
Posts: 111
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 8:59 am

Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:14 pm

Boeing757100 wrote:
Very well said. It is a felony offense to disrespect the crew ..


Did you mean "to disobey FA/crewmember instructions" (pertaining to safety mainly if I understand correctly)?

Disrespect would be an incredibly subjective and overly broad criteria that could land a felony charge on all sorts of people (needlessly).
 
User avatar
Boeing757100
Posts: 322
Joined: Wed May 06, 2020 10:09 pm

Re: DL Captain with no mask has altercation with passenger

Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:37 pm

travelsonic wrote:
Boeing757100 wrote:
Very well said. It is a felony offense to disrespect the crew ..


Did you mean "to disobey FA/crewmember instructions" (pertaining to safety mainly if I understand correctly)?

Disrespect would be an incredibly subjective and overly broad criteria that could land a felony charge on all sorts of people (needlessly).



Yes, I meant to not comply with directions. I've heard it is a felony.
The 757-MAX is happening tomorrow.

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