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Ishrion
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Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:33 pm

GECAS Cargo will be leasing three Boeing 777-300ERSFs to Kalitta Air.

GECAS expects to deliver the first aircraft to Kalitta Air in 2023 meaning Kalitta will be the first operator of this 777 type.

Image

Image

https://www.gecas.aero/kalitta-air-to-b ... cas-cargo/
 
Newark727
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:35 pm

All change at Kalitta - they didn't park their last 747-200F until 2017! Now they're launching the newest large freighter project out there.
 
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ojjunior
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:43 pm

Time for a livery update, perhaps?
 
jbs2886
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:47 pm

Interesting to note that the first operator also operates 777-Fs
 
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ArcticSEA
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:48 pm

ojjunior wrote:
Time for a livery update, perhaps?

Hopefully not!
 
Newark727
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:55 pm

ojjunior wrote:
Time for a livery update, perhaps?


If it ain't broke don't fix it!
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:40 pm

Newark727 wrote:
All change at Kalitta - they didn't park their last 747-200F until 2017! Now they're launching the newest large freighter project out there.

All about the economics. I'm happy to hear these were placed and these will help. The fact 3 were placed means a few more GECAS owned 777-300ERs are converted.

I'm not seeing a shortage of conversion stock.

Lightsaber
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Bricktop
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:42 pm

ojjunior wrote:
Time for a livery update, perhaps?

Nooooooooo! Classic old school. Freight companies have the best liveries these days.
 
Antarius
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:44 pm

What does ERSF stand for?
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AirKevin
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:46 pm

Antarius wrote:
What does ERSF stand for?

Extended range special freighter. Converted from a 777-300ER.
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Antarius
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:58 pm

AirKevin wrote:
Antarius wrote:
What does ERSF stand for?

Extended range special freighter. Converted from a 777-300ER.


Thanks.

I saw the acronym all over articles from GECAS etc, but they merely referred to it as "big twin" not the full name!
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strfyr51
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:04 am

Does anybody know what the empty weight of a 777-300erf is as compared to a passenger 777-300ER?
 
UA748i
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:10 am

ojjunior wrote:
Time for a livery update, perhaps?


What's wrong with it? I think it happens to look great.
 
Antarius
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:11 am

UA748i wrote:
ojjunior wrote:
Time for a livery update, perhaps?


What's wrong with it? I think it happens to look great.


It looks like the old IB livery.

Personal opinion, but cheatlines aged about as well as station wagon wood paneling.
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leleko747
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:25 am

ojjunior wrote:
Time for a livery update, perhaps?


Don't even dare to mention it. A great, classic livery shouldn't be touched! :box:

Antarius wrote:

It looks like the old IB livery.


...which was vastly superior to their current "livery"...
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UA748i
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:42 am

Antarius wrote:
UA748i wrote:
ojjunior wrote:
Time for a livery update, perhaps?


What's wrong with it? I think it happens to look great.


It looks like the old IB livery.

Personal opinion, but cheatlines aged about as well as station wagon wood paneling.


I loved the old IB livery too. The new one is a travesty.
 
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jaybird
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:42 am

Why is the (looks like) only cargo door aft of the wing instead of in front of the wing? Isn't that going to mess with COG?
 
Antarius
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:45 am

jaybird wrote:
Why is the (looks like) only cargo door aft of the wing instead of in front of the wing? Isn't that going to mess with COG?


Why? You can load from the rear and move cargo to the front to appropriately manage COG. Same way as a rear ramp aircraft or nose loading 747F
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Antarius
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:46 am

UA748i wrote:
Antarius wrote:
UA748i wrote:

What's wrong with it? I think it happens to look great.


It looks like the old IB livery.

Personal opinion, but cheatlines aged about as well as station wagon wood paneling.


I loved the old IB livery too. The new one is a travesty.


The new one is bland, but the old one accurately reflected IB at the time. Old, stodgy and a money losing vestige of the past.
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DaCubbyBearBar
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:53 am

If Amazon keeps growing, they could become a customer. I love the conversion!!
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itisi
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:02 am

ojjunior wrote:
Time for a livery update, perhaps?


Why? It looks amazing
737-300/400/500 ... are NOT classics :)
 
GSOtoIND
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:10 am

I think the rendering above doesn't do their livery justice. The cheatline is much thicker than that in real life. The 747s have a nice and thick cheatline that covers the fuselage nicely. Combined with the dignified logo, I think it's a good look.
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dispatchguy
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:21 am

It's a pretty airplane, about 20 ft longer than a 777F, but only 8-9000 lbs heavier in MTOW than a pure 777F. Plus, unless you install the additional lower cargo fuel tank, you're getting the 777F fuel if 320.0K and change. As long as floor density isnt an issue...

Best for reasonably short legs (8-12 hrs) with a heavy payload. I read they are quoting a max payload of around 222.0K, so OEW must be in the 310-315 range?? 777F Min Flight Weight is 305.5.
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Okcflyer
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:27 am

jaybird wrote:
Why is the (looks like) only cargo door aft of the wing instead of in front of the wing? Isn't that going to mess with COG?


Factory-fresh Boeing 77F also has the door behind the wing.

As I suggested in the 777SF thread, this will be just one small placement of 100+ coming over the next 10 years. It's going to shake up the freight market.
 
CALMSP
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:34 am

DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
If Amazon keeps growing, they could become a customer. I love the conversion!!
UA748i wrote:
Antarius wrote:
UA748i wrote:

can't see that, that is too large for Amazon, if you are not consistently filling 767-300's, a 777-300 would be enormous.

What's wrong with it? I think it happens to look great.


It looks like the old IB livery.

Personal opinion, but cheatlines aged about as well as station wagon wood paneling.


I loved the old IB livery too. The new one is a travesty.


one of my all-time favorites!
 
Grandforks12
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:25 am

I wonder if this opens the door for more point to point connections or expansions as well. I would what the max range with full payload would be? It'll be nice to see these here at CVG in a few years.
 
EBT
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:33 am

AirKevin wrote:
Antarius wrote:
What does ERSF stand for?

Extended range special freighter. Converted from a 777-300ER.


Just to add context to this "SF" is usually when it is converted by IAI or using their kits. "BCF" is a Boeing Converted Freighter, which is when it is done by the OEM.
 
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:06 am

ojjunior wrote:
Time for a livery update, perhaps?


Given how their existing 777s are painted, there’s a chance they will say DHL on the side, and not even have the full DHL livery at that.
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raylee67
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:59 pm

Ishrion wrote:

GECAS expects to deliver the first aircraft to Kalitta Air in 2023 meaning Kalitta will be the first operator of this 777 type.


2023? Why does it take so long? I thought they are going to start work early next year on the 1st aircraft. There is a lot more money to be made if they get those 77W freighters out late 2021. By 2023, most of the belly capacity of pax flights would have returned (hopefully).
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VSMUT
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:12 pm

raylee67 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:

GECAS expects to deliver the first aircraft to Kalitta Air in 2023 meaning Kalitta will be the first operator of this 777 type.


2023? Why does it take so long? I thought they are going to start work early next year on the 1st aircraft. There is a lot more money to be made if they get those 77W freighters out late 2021. By 2023, most of the belly capacity of pax flights would have returned (hopefully).


First conversions always take a long time. First they have to develop the conversion and test it on the computers. Then they have to start cutting and converting the first example, which given that this is the first 777 to have a door cut into the side of its fuselage, means they have to "experiment" their way through the process. Then once the conversion is done, they need to test that it works, fix any faults and certify it.
For comparisons sake, the A330P2F program was launched in 2012 and had its first delivery in 2018. The Airbus/EFW A321P2F was launched in 2015 and only just saw its first delivery this week. The 767-300BCF launched in 2005 and entered service in 2008, despite being able to draw experience from the 767-200 conversion program.


Okcflyer wrote:
As I suggested in the 777SF thread, this will be just one small placement of 100+ coming over the next 10 years. It's going to shake up the freight market.


100+ orders seems possible, but I doubt they will make that many deliveries by the end of the decade. Eventually I'd expect it to reach between 200 and 300 though.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:31 pm

VSMUT wrote:
raylee67 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:

GECAS expects to deliver the first aircraft to Kalitta Air in 2023 meaning Kalitta will be the first operator of this 777 type.


2023? Why does it take so long? I thought they are going to start work early next year on the 1st aircraft. There is a lot more money to be made if they get those 77W freighters out late 2021. By 2023, most of the belly capacity of pax flights would have returned (hopefully).


First conversions always take a long time. First they have to develop the conversion and test it on the computers. Then they have to start cutting and converting the first example, which given that this is the first 777 to have a door cut into the side of its fuselage, means they have to "experiment" their way through the process. Then once the conversion is done, they need to test that it works, fix any faults and certify it.
For comparisons sake, the A330P2F program was launched in 2012 and had its first delivery in 2018. The Airbus/EFW A321P2F was launched in 2015 and only just saw its first delivery this week. The 767-300BCF launched in 2005 and entered service in 2008, despite being able to draw experience from the 767-200 conversion program.


Okcflyer wrote:
As I suggested in the 777SF thread, this will be just one small placement of 100+ coming over the next 10 years. It's going to shake up the freight market.


100+ orders seems possible, but I doubt they will make that many deliveries by the end of the decade. Eventually I'd expect it to reach between 200 and 300 though.


How many 767-200s did Boeing convert in the BCF program? I usually only see BDSFs. Boeing's lead time seems long as they were actually making new-build 767-300 freighters so the main challenge was bodging together existing parts.

Bedek will not have the help of Boeing engineering on this conversion, so the long lead time seems about right to me.
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VSMUT
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:41 pm

Spacepope wrote:
Bedek will not have the help of Boeing engineering on this conversion, so the long lead time seems about right to me.


I don't know, it seems a bit too short if you ask me. But then, we don't know how long IAI was working on the concept before it was launched. They did talk about it in the summer of 2018.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:59 pm

VSMUT wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
Bedek will not have the help of Boeing engineering on this conversion, so the long lead time seems about right to me.


I don't know, it seems a bit too short if you ask me. But then, we don't know how long IAI was working on the concept before it was launched. They did talk about it in the summer of 2018.


They had previously bought a 777-200 (From MAS?) many years ago for a 777 conversion project. They did a lot of tinkering with that but never completed a prototype. I'd wager all those years of engineering work got put to use on the new program.
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SilverwingSpttr
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:10 pm

Love this! Also love that they rendered it in the full Kalitta Air livery, instead of the hybrid-DHL that their 77F's fly around in.
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B777LRF
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:54 pm

Don't sweat the livery guys, there's almost zero chance the aircraft will wear anything but either full or partial DHL colours.

Boeing's big freighters (747 & 777) have always had a MCD behind the wings. It has a distinct set of advantages and disadvantages, but on the whole it does more "good" than "bad".

On the negative side, it's serious shot across the bow for 747-400Fs flying for integrators, and may well be the final nail in the coffin for the -400BDSF.
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CALMSP
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:02 pm

DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
If Amazon keeps growing, they could become a customer. I love the conversion!!


I can't see that happening, with 767-300's not being filled, why get a plane that would probably double the capacity? On top of that, with more FC/DC's being built around the country, less relying on flying. I see AMZ focusing soon on more 738's than anything.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:06 pm

Bricktop wrote:
ojjunior wrote:
Time for a livery update, perhaps?

Nooooooooo! Classic old school. Freight companies have the best liveries these days.


That's actually the old AIA/Kitty Hawk livery...after they went bankrupt and Connie Kallitta bought the airline, he only changed the titles.

Now, as for the B77W(SF), I can't see it stopping at just three. K4 has four B744s on the active roster that are more than 30 years old and five additional ones that are more than 27 years old (many more were bought for parts and are stored at OSC).

BTW, as for the last B742s that K4 was flying? Those were high-MTOW models that UA originally ordered for JFK-NRT (and the only B742s they ordered)...and both were sold as airworthy frames to a CIS airline.

In the future, I would not be surprised to see LY re-enter the freighter business, operating two such frames.
 
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ryanflyer
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:47 pm

Kalitta is about to unveil a new livery. It’s being painted on a 747 now. The new 777 freighter will likely wear the new one.
 
jbs2886
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:30 pm

CALMSP wrote:
DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
If Amazon keeps growing, they could become a customer. I love the conversion!!


I can't see that happening, with 767-300's not being filled, why get a plane that would probably double the capacity? On top of that, with more FC/DC's being built around the country, less relying on flying. I see AMZ focusing soon on more 738's than anything.


Then why did Amazon lease 12 more 767s in just June? What basis do you have for asserting the 767-300s are not being filled?
 
airzona11
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:38 pm

What a great looking plane .
 
CALMSP
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:48 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
CALMSP wrote:
DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
If Amazon keeps growing, they could become a customer. I love the conversion!!


I can't see that happening, with 767-300's not being filled, why get a plane that would probably double the capacity? On top of that, with more FC/DC's being built around the country, less relying on flying. I see AMZ focusing soon on more 738's than anything.


Then why did Amazon lease 12 more 767s in just June? What basis do you have for asserting the 767-300s are not being filled?


loading them myself and seeing the capacity of the entire network that is sent out. Whatever algorithm is used, it doesn't automatically fill up airplanes. at least now a lot of backtracking of goods is less and less.
 
alpine1989
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:51 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
ojjunior wrote:
Time for a livery update, perhaps?

Nooooooooo! Classic old school. Freight companies have the best liveries these days.


That's actually the old AIA/Kitty Hawk livery...after they went bankrupt and Connie Kallitta bought the airline, he only changed the titles.

Now, as for the B77W(SF), I can't see it stopping at just three. K4 has four B744s on the active roster that are more than 30 years old and five additional ones that are more than 27 years old (many more were bought for parts and are stored at OSC).

BTW, as for the last B742s that K4 was flying? Those were high-MTOW models that UA originally ordered for JFK-NRT (and the only B742s they ordered)...and both were sold as airworthy frames to a CIS airline.

In the future, I would not be surprised to see LY re-enter the freighter business, operating two such frames.


The livery goes back to the 1980s when the airline was Connie Kalitta Services. The airline was renamed American International Airways in 1991 and sold to Kitty Hawk in 1997. Connie Kalitta bought the operating certificate back in 2000 and continued using his original livery.

The livery has been used on the DC8, DC9, B727, B747, B767, L1011, Beech 18 and Learjet.

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MO11
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:53 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
ojjunior wrote:
Time for a livery update, perhaps?

Nooooooooo! Classic old school. Freight companies have the best liveries these days.


That's actually the old AIA/Kitty Hawk livery...after they went bankrupt and Connie Kallitta bought the airline, he only changed the titles.



No, that was the original Connie Kalitta Services livery:

 
blacksoviet
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:58 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
ojjunior wrote:
Time for a livery update, perhaps?

Nooooooooo! Classic old school. Freight companies have the best liveries these days.


That's actually the old AIA/Kitty Hawk livery...after they went bankrupt and Connie Kallitta bought the airline, he only changed the titles.

Now, as for the B77W(SF), I can't see it stopping at just three. K4 has four B744s on the active roster that are more than 30 years old and five additional ones that are more than 27 years old (many more were bought for parts and are stored at OSC).

BTW, as for the last B742s that K4 was flying? Those were high-MTOW models that UA originally ordered for JFK-NRT (and the only B742s they ordered)...and both were sold as airworthy frames to a CIS airline.

In the future, I would not be surprised to see LY re-enter the freighter business, operating two such frames.

Are you suggesting that LY will purchase 742s?
 
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tjwgrr
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:10 pm

ryanflyer wrote:
Kalitta is about to unveil a new livery. It’s being painted on a 747 now. The new 777 freighter will likely wear the new one.


And here it is....

Image


Just kidding..... :wink2:
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ojjunior
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:24 pm

Sorry folks.
Didn't mean to offend anyone with my outrageous suggestion.
Apparently I am the only living creature that thought this might be good.
BTW any livery might be good on this gorgeous aircraft.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:32 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
Nooooooooo! Classic old school. Freight companies have the best liveries these days.


That's actually the old AIA/Kitty Hawk livery...after they went bankrupt and Connie Kallitta bought the airline, he only changed the titles.

Now, as for the B77W(SF), I can't see it stopping at just three. K4 has four B744s on the active roster that are more than 30 years old and five additional ones that are more than 27 years old (many more were bought for parts and are stored at OSC).

BTW, as for the last B742s that K4 was flying? Those were high-MTOW models that UA originally ordered for JFK-NRT (and the only B742s they ordered)...and both were sold as airworthy frames to a CIS airline.

In the future, I would not be surprised to see LY re-enter the freighter business, operating two such frames.

Are you suggesting that LY will purchase 742s?


Or lease B77W freighters. I wonder why they never bought the B77W as a passenger plane.
 
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leleko747
Posts: 455
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 4:16 pm

Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:03 am

ryanflyer wrote:
Kalitta is about to unveil a new livery. It’s being painted on a 747 now. The new 777 freighter will likely wear the new one.


Now you got me scared... really hope they show up something good, because the current one is so nice.
I wonder when people will understand:
Embraer 190 or simply E190, not ERJ-190. E-Jets are NOT ERJs!
Boeing 747-8, not Boeing 747-800. Same goes for 787.
Airbus A320, not Airbus 320.
Airbii does not exist.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 5090
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:21 am

UA748i wrote:
ojjunior wrote:
Time for a livery update, perhaps?


What's wrong with it? I think it happens to look great.

A cargo hauler needs a good simple paint scheme UPS and Fedex as an example. something easilt maintained and repaired.
 
N965UW
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:31 pm

Re: Kalitta Air To Operate 777-300ERSFs

Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:36 am

Antarius wrote:
What does ERSF stand for?


Saw a comment on Facebook that said "Embry Riddle Student Funded" :lol:
Flown on: A332 C172 C182 C82R CRJ7 E190 PA38 P28A
Been aboard on ground only: B744F C17 C162 CONC S76 T33

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