Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
720B
Topic Author
Posts: 347
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:52 am

Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:46 pm

Kuwait Airways, the national airline of Kuwait, has received its first two A330neos. These aircraft are the first of eight A330neos ordered by the airline. This event also marks Airbus’ first A330-800 delivery.

https://samchui.com/2020/10/29/kuwait-a ... 5r_44hKiUk
 
Antarius
Posts: 2732
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:53 pm

Their livery looks good on the a330neo.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
x1234
Posts: 946
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:50 pm

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:07 pm

So they have relatively new B77W's, A330's and now A338neo. They also have a A350 order. I think there needs to be fleet simplification and just take on A338neo's which can fly every route in their network like their B77W at a much lower cost. Do they really need a 300 seat aircraft (B77W)?
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8507
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:35 pm

x1234 wrote:
So they have relatively new B77W's, A330's and now A338neo. They also have a A350 order. I think there needs to be fleet simplification and just take on A338neo's which can fly every route in their network like their B77W at a much lower cost. Do they really need a 300 seat aircraft (B77W)?


77Ws make up ten of the whole Kuwait fleet of 27 (according to planespotters.net). Kuwait's 77Ws avg 3.6 years old, with the eldest not even 4.0 years yet. And you're proposing replacement of 77Ws with A330-800s?
 
nine4nine
Posts: 654
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:44 pm

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:40 pm

The 330-8 looks fantastic. That livery is horrid however. Would love to see this in the previous livery.
717, 727-100, 727-200, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 742, 748, 752, 753, 762, 763, 772, 77W, 787-10, DC9, MD80/88/90, DC10, 319, 220-300, 320, 321, 321n, 332, 333, CS100, CRJ200, Q400, E175, E190, ERJ145, EMB120
 
cirrusdragoon
Posts: 236
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:42 pm

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:21 pm

Looks beautiful!
 
User avatar
Devilfish
Posts: 7166
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:52 am

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:48 pm

nine4nine wrote:
The 330-8 looks fantastic. That livery is horrid however. Would love to see this in the previous livery.

IMO, the A338 is the best proportioned A330 of the lot...I liked the video of Al Boom's painting process. Though it seems a bit wanting without a full-size photo of the subject on its own thread - so..... :wink2:

Image

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... 0neos.html


MIflyer12 wrote:
77Ws make up ten of the whole Kuwait fleet of 27 (according to planespotters.net). Kuwait's 77Ws avg 3.6 years old, with the eldest not even 4.0 years yet.

I note the "future fleet" in Airbus' press release above...are we sure the A35K wasn't what KU ordered? IIRC, cost was the reason the A350 order was deferred and replaced with the A338. Perhaps a more pragmatic "simplification" is to take on the A35K in lieu of the 77W some years down the road. :spin:
Last edited by Devilfish on Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
behramjee
Posts: 5118
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:52 pm

KU’s original order was for 10 A359s around 5-6 years ago. Then in Summer 2018 at the Farnborough air show, it got switched to be 5 A359s + 8 A338s.
 
Western727
Posts: 1795
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:38 pm

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:24 pm

I'm liking that livery! Except for the 350-style bandit mask across the windshield. I'm just not feeling it. It's the only part of the 350 (and now the 338) that I wish would be done away with.
Jack @ AUS
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2875
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:25 am

[code][/code]
nine4nine wrote:
The 330-8 looks fantastic. That livery is horrid however. Would love to see this in the previous livery.


I fully agree. That’s not just Eurowhite it’s horrid Eurowhite à la IB.
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 1866
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:43 am

Western727 wrote:
I'm liking that livery! Except for the 350-style bandit mask across the windshield. I'm just not feeling it. It's the only part of the 350 (and now the 338) that I wish would be done away with.

People keep rehashing that. However, blacking out around the cockpit windows is nothing new, and it seems AC adopted the "racoon masks" before Airbus delivered them.
So, it's not A350 (and A330neo) specific.
 
User avatar
MillwallSean
Posts: 980
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:07 pm

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Fri Oct 30, 2020 2:56 am

nine4nine wrote:
The 330-8 looks fantastic. That livery is horrid however. Would love to see this in the previous livery.


I always thought the livery was hideous, until I saw it live. Its a completely different experience. The blue tailfin is clearly a bird (not just blue colours) when you see it live, and the logo is noticeable right away.
I still don't think they made the most of their livery change but I must say that when seen irl its a different bird compared to the images.
No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
 
User avatar
rida79
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:56 pm

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:37 am

x1234 wrote:
So they have relatively new B77W's, A330's and now A338neo. They also have a A350 order. I think there needs to be fleet simplification and just take on A338neo's which can fly every route in their network like their B77W at a much lower cost. Do they really need a 300 seat aircraft (B77W)?



The A330-200 are leased and will be phased out (along with the leased A320ceo) once the new aircraft arrive.
 
MoonC
Posts: 351
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:26 am

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:40 am

WayexTDI wrote:
Western727 wrote:
I'm liking that livery! Except for the 350-style bandit mask across the windshield. I'm just not feeling it. It's the only part of the 350 (and now the 338) that I wish would be done away with.

People keep rehashing that. However, blacking out around the cockpit windows is nothing new, and it seems AC adopted the "racoon masks" before Airbus delivered them.
So, it's not A350 (and A330neo) specific.


Air Canada's mask is a design choice, and is supposed to symbolise indigenous birds of Canada. Nothing to do with Airbus's own mask.

The A350's mask has a purpose behind it: https://blog.virginatlantic.com/airbus-a350-wear-zorro-mask/

The A330neo is also a design choice, meant to symbolize its complementarity to the long range fleet of Airbus after the A350: https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-releases/en/2015/11/shades-livery-now-also-on-new-a330neo.html



And title of thread is misleading. Kuwait's first two A338s? Yes. The "world's first A330-800"? No. That titles belongs to F-WTTO, Airbus's test frame.
 
User avatar
eta unknown
Posts: 2875
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:06 am

IIRC these A338's were the cancelled Hawaiian order that KU reportedly picked up extremely cheaply.
 
workhorse
Posts: 828
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 11:35 pm

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:49 pm

I am very pessimistic regarind the future of this model, but still it's a relief to finally see it in service. At least the resources spent on the prototype and certification weren't for nothing.
 
A3501041
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:22 pm

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:12 pm

I still think the A330-800 will sell relatively well. Not as much as 788 ou A339, but some airlines have fleets of 767-300 and A330-200 that needs to be replaced in the coming years and a bigger aircraft, such as 789 and A339, would be too big for their role, for example TAP, Azul, Aerolineas Argentinas and Delta.
 
ScottB
Posts: 7117
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:33 pm

eta unknown wrote:
IIRC these A338's were the cancelled Hawaiian order that KU reportedly picked up extremely cheaply.


There's a reason these aircraft would have been picked up cheaply. I do hope KU is very happy with these aircraft as the secondhand market for a low-selling variant will likely be quite challenging. The number of lightly-used A330-200s hitting the market will not help matters in an extended period of modest fuel prices.
 
AWACSooner
Posts: 2559
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:35 am

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:02 pm

Just a suggestion: re-think the title. This isn't the WORLD'S first 338...
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 1866
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:09 pm

MoonC wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
Western727 wrote:
I'm liking that livery! Except for the 350-style bandit mask across the windshield. I'm just not feeling it. It's the only part of the 350 (and now the 338) that I wish would be done away with.

People keep rehashing that. However, blacking out around the cockpit windows is nothing new, and it seems AC adopted the "racoon masks" before Airbus delivered them.
So, it's not A350 (and A330neo) specific.


Air Canada's mask is a design choice, and is supposed to symbolise indigenous birds of Canada. Nothing to do with Airbus's own mask.

The A350's mask has a purpose behind it: https://blog.virginatlantic.com/airbus-a350-wear-zorro-mask/

The A330neo is also a design choice, meant to symbolize its complementarity to the long range fleet of Airbus after the A350: https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-releases/en/2015/11/shades-livery-now-also-on-new-a330neo.html

And? People keep moaning about it on the Airbus frame, but nothing on the AC frames...
Also, painting the cockpit windows surrounding black (and sometimes the area between the windows and the nose of the plane) is nothing new, it was done in the 70s by many airlines.

Again, the only black painting that is being complained about if the one from Airbus factory; talk about being inconsistent...
 
User avatar
eta unknown
Posts: 2875
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:27 pm

ScottB wrote:
eta unknown wrote:
IIRC these A338's were the cancelled Hawaiian order that KU reportedly picked up extremely cheaply.


There's a reason these aircraft would have been picked up cheaply. I do hope KU is very happy with these aircraft as the secondhand market for a low-selling variant will likely be quite challenging. The number of lightly-used A330-200s hitting the market will not help matters in an extended period of modest fuel prices.


Of course: Airbus was desperate to sell them. It might not matter to KU- if these birds are owned they can keep them for years and run them into the ground, then scrap them. SAA did this with their 747-200's and SP's... sure they cost a lot more to fuel, but that was peanuts compared to leasing new aircraft... only when the maintenance costs could no longer be justified were they were eventually disposed of.
 
Antarius
Posts: 2732
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:28 pm

eta unknown wrote:
ScottB wrote:
eta unknown wrote:
IIRC these A338's were the cancelled Hawaiian order that KU reportedly picked up extremely cheaply.


There's a reason these aircraft would have been picked up cheaply. I do hope KU is very happy with these aircraft as the secondhand market for a low-selling variant will likely be quite challenging. The number of lightly-used A330-200s hitting the market will not help matters in an extended period of modest fuel prices.


Of course: Airbus was desperate to sell them. It might not matter to KU- if these birds are owned they can keep them for years and run them into the ground, then scrap them. SAA did this with their 747-200's and SP's... sure they cost a lot more to fuel, but that was peanuts compared to leasing new aircraft... only when the maintenance costs could no longer be justified were they were eventually disposed of.


And between the fact that Kuwait is an oil kingdom and the commodity is dirt cheap now, it makes even more sense.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
skipness1E
Posts: 4856
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Fri Oct 30, 2020 4:44 pm

The black mask is contagious, Lufthansa is now taking new A320neos with it painted on, after a whole fleet without it!
 
ScottB
Posts: 7117
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:24 pm

Antarius wrote:
And between the fact that Kuwait is an oil kingdom and the commodity is dirt cheap now, it makes even more sense.


How do you figure that? The main reason for buying a new A338 instead of a used A332 would be the greater efficiency of the A338, but that's less important with low oil prices. Kuwait being an oil kingdom has less money to burn on shiny new planes and a lossmaking national carrier when oil revenues are depressed. They'll lose less money operating an A338 than a 77W, but they're still stuck with paying for both planes.
 
Antarius
Posts: 2732
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:28 pm

ScottB wrote:
Antarius wrote:
And between the fact that Kuwait is an oil kingdom and the commodity is dirt cheap now, it makes even more sense.


How do you figure that? The main reason for buying a new A338 instead of a used A332 would be the greater efficiency of the A338, but that's less important with low oil prices. Kuwait being an oil kingdom has less money to burn on shiny new planes and a lossmaking national carrier when oil revenues are depressed. They'll lose less money operating an A338 than a 77W, but they're still stuck with paying for both planes.


No one predicted Covid, so the hand dealt is what it is. Given a do-over, I don't think KU would order any planes.

However, the a338 was likely extremely cheap (ex-HA bound planes) and it gives them range and efficiency. Combined with low commodity prices, its the best possible situation to be in when it comes to taking new planes.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
andz
Posts: 7752
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:49 pm

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:21 pm

eta unknown wrote:
SAA did this with their 747-200's and SP's... sure they cost a lot more to fuel, but that was peanuts compared to leasing new aircraft... only when the maintenance costs could no longer be justified were they were eventually disposed of.

Only when Airbus made them "an offer they couldn't refuse" were they eventually disposed of.

The start of the rot.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
Antarius
Posts: 2732
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:11 pm

andz wrote:
eta unknown wrote:
SAA did this with their 747-200's and SP's... sure they cost a lot more to fuel, but that was peanuts compared to leasing new aircraft... only when the maintenance costs could no longer be justified were they were eventually disposed of.

Only when Airbus made them "an offer they couldn't refuse" were they eventually disposed of.

The start of the rot.


Isn't that how it works everywhere?

The only reason these a338 frames are at KU is because Boeing made HA an offer they couldn't refuse.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
reltney
Posts: 668
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:34 am

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:23 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
Western727 wrote:
I'm liking that livery! Except for the 350-style bandit mask across the windshield. I'm just not feeling it. It's the only part of the 350 (and now the 338) that I wish would be done away with.

People keep rehashing that. However, blacking out around the cockpit windows is nothing new, and it seems AC adopted the "racoon masks" before Airbus delivered them.
So, it's not A350 (and A330neo) specific.



Agree. Old news...Canadian pacific..... Muse air blacked out cockpits also.... someone tried to say....Canadian Pacifico’s is different, they were replicating a Canada goose.... my response about how airbus was making goose style cockpits did not go over well. He lost... CP/AC and Muse air won this contest...

Cheers
Knives don't kill people. People with knives kill people.
OUTLAW KNIVES.

I am a pilot, therefore I envy no one...
 
marcelh
Posts: 1095
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:05 am

Antarius wrote:
andz wrote:
eta unknown wrote:
SAA did this with their 747-200's and SP's... sure they cost a lot more to fuel, but that was peanuts compared to leasing new aircraft... only when the maintenance costs could no longer be justified were they were eventually disposed of.

Only when Airbus made them "an offer they couldn't refuse" were they eventually disposed of.

The start of the rot.


Isn't that how it works everywhere?

The only reason these a338 frames are at KU is because Boeing made HA an offer they couldn't refuse.

Add GE to that in an attempt to destroy the A330neo-RR combo.
 
Boeing74741R
Posts: 1439
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:44 am

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Sat Oct 31, 2020 11:05 am

A3501041 wrote:
I still think the A330-800 will sell relatively well. Not as much as 788 ou A339, but some airlines have fleets of 767-300 and A330-200 that needs to be replaced in the coming years and a bigger aircraft, such as 789 and A339, would be too big for their role, for example TAP, Azul, Aerolineas Argentinas and Delta.


Agreed. It’s easy to forget amidst all the talk about being more economical to operate larger aircraft that bigger isn’t necessarily better or a “one size fits all” solution. There’s also quite a gap between the A321/737 MAX 10 and A330-900 and 787-9 in terms of seat capacity and capabilities that isn’t going to be filled anytime soon besides the A330-800 or 787-8.
 
ScottB
Posts: 7117
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Sat Oct 31, 2020 3:47 pm

Boeing74741R wrote:
It’s easy to forget amidst all the talk about being more economical to operate larger aircraft that bigger isn’t necessarily better or a “one size fits all” solution. There’s also quite a gap between the A321/737 MAX 10 and A330-900 and 787-9 in terms of seat capacity and capabilities that isn’t going to be filled anytime soon besides the A330-800 or 787-8.


The problem with looking at that gap and trying to shoehorn in the A338 or 788 is that those aircraft don't fill the gap efficiently. Trip costs are at best a few percent lower than larger members of the same families (the 788 does a bit better here vs. the 789 than the A338 vs. the A339) but you give up 15-20% of seat inventory. Few operators need the additional range the A338 offers over the A339. There's a reason why A319neo and 737 MAX 7 sales have been moribund (and why both the 737-600 and A318 were flops), and it's not just the A220.

Sure, if the manufacturer gives you an amazing deal on the planes AND you will almost never need the additional seats, the A338 makes sense. But the resale value of these aircraft will always be impaired, so the amazing deal from the manufacturer isn't that great. And it's not really good for Airbus to have to discount so heavily either. It makes more sense to devote manufacturing resources to more profitable products.
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2875
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Sat Oct 31, 2020 5:43 pm

ScottB wrote:
Boeing74741R wrote:
It’s easy to forget amidst all the talk about being more economical to operate larger aircraft that bigger isn’t necessarily better or a “one size fits all” solution. There’s also quite a gap between the A321/737 MAX 10 and A330-900 and 787-9 in terms of seat capacity and capabilities that isn’t going to be filled anytime soon besides the A330-800 or 787-8.


The problem with looking at that gap and trying to shoehorn in the A338 or 788 is that those aircraft don't fill the gap efficiently. Trip costs are at best a few percent lower than larger members of the same families (the 788 does a bit better here vs. the 789 than the A338 vs. the A339) but you give up 15-20% of seat inventory. Few operators need the additional range the A338 offers over the A339. There's a reason why A319neo and 737 MAX 7 sales have been moribund (and why both the 737-600 and A318 were flops), and it's not just the A220.

Sure, if the manufacturer gives you an amazing deal on the planes AND you will almost never need the additional seats, the A338 makes sense. But the resale value of these aircraft will always be impaired, so the amazing deal from the manufacturer isn't that great. And it's not really good for Airbus to have to discount so heavily either. It makes more sense to devote manufacturing resources to more profitable products.


The 338 should have a future too as a freighter.
 
by738
Posts: 3116
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2000 7:59 am

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Sat Oct 31, 2020 5:45 pm

workhorse wrote:
I am very pessimistic regarind the future of this model, but still it's a relief to finally see it in service. At least the resources spent on the prototype and certification weren't for nothing.

Agree, this will be a grounded orphan fleet in a few years.
 
VV
Posts: 1911
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:43 pm

When is the first revenue flight?
 
Antarius
Posts: 2732
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:52 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
ScottB wrote:
Boeing74741R wrote:
It’s easy to forget amidst all the talk about being more economical to operate larger aircraft that bigger isn’t necessarily better or a “one size fits all” solution. There’s also quite a gap between the A321/737 MAX 10 and A330-900 and 787-9 in terms of seat capacity and capabilities that isn’t going to be filled anytime soon besides the A330-800 or 787-8.


The problem with looking at that gap and trying to shoehorn in the A338 or 788 is that those aircraft don't fill the gap efficiently. Trip costs are at best a few percent lower than larger members of the same families (the 788 does a bit better here vs. the 789 than the A338 vs. the A339) but you give up 15-20% of seat inventory. Few operators need the additional range the A338 offers over the A339. There's a reason why A319neo and 737 MAX 7 sales have been moribund (and why both the 737-600 and A318 were flops), and it's not just the A220.

Sure, if the manufacturer gives you an amazing deal on the planes AND you will almost never need the additional seats, the A338 makes sense. But the resale value of these aircraft will always be impaired, so the amazing deal from the manufacturer isn't that great. And it's not really good for Airbus to have to discount so heavily either. It makes more sense to devote manufacturing resources to more profitable products.


The 338 should have a future too as a freighter.


Nope. It doesn't fit in a small enough wingbox to make it worthwhile. If you're getting an a338F (if it ever happens), you'd be better off with a 777F, which can carry more for the same gate space.

It's the same issue with the a330F and why it's failed.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
RainerBoeing777
Posts: 567
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:43 pm

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:07 pm

Can the Airbus A330-800NEO do KWI-JFK non-stops, or does it have to make a technical stop?
CX - JL - LH - KE - KL - SQ - QR - QF - TG - UA
 
marcelh
Posts: 1095
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:30 pm

Antarius wrote:
If you're getting an a338F (if it ever happens), you'd be better off with a 777F, which can carry more for the same gate space.

This means you’ll be better of with an A380 instead of a B77W, because it can carry more for the same gate space....
 
Antarius
Posts: 2732
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:36 pm

marcelh wrote:
Antarius wrote:
If you're getting an a338F (if it ever happens), you'd be better off with a 777F, which can carry more for the same gate space.

This means you’ll be better of with an A380 instead of a B77W, because it can carry more for the same gate space....


Clearly not, since there are no a380Fs out there.

There's a reason the 767F, a300F and MD11 are so popular. And when you go one gate size up, the 777F and 747F. You want to maximize cargo for your gate space and also have a high MTOW aircraft to handle the cargo.

There are only 41 a330F out there. The market is staying loudly and clearly that it's not the right aircraft.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 10879
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:49 pm

marcelh wrote:
Antarius wrote:
If you're getting an a338F (if it ever happens), you'd be better off with a 777F, which can carry more for the same gate space.

This means you’ll be better of with an A380 instead of a B77W, because it can carry more for the same gate space....

The 77W is a code E aircraft while the A380 is a code F aircraft with a wingspan ~15m/50’ wider. That’s a bigger difference than between the 767 and the A330...
 
LCDFlight
Posts: 682
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:22 pm

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:49 pm

Kuwait seems like an ideal case for A330-800. It is a thin, but wealthy market that needs flexibility between regional and long range flights. The A330-800 can do exactly what Kuwait needs to do.
 
behramjee
Posts: 5118
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:52 pm

RainerBoeing777 wrote:
Can the Airbus A330-800NEO do KWI-JFK non-stops, or does it have to make a technical stop?


The A338 can do JFK/IAD-KWI nonstop easily year round with no payload issues however it cannot depart KWI with a full payload at any time of the year to JFK/IAD considering KU’s prime westbound departure hub wave bank is between 0800-0945 local time where the on ground temperature averages 43-45c between mid Apr-mid Oct + KU’s average pax weight with luggage included is 120KG.
 
Antarius
Posts: 2732
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:56 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
Kuwait seems like an ideal case for A330-800. It is a thin, but wealthy market that needs flexibility between regional and long range flights. The A330-800 can do exactly what Kuwait needs to do.


And they were likely extremely cheap as Airbus needed to move them (ex-HA order). So all said and done, it's a ideal outcome for both parties.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
DylanHarvey
Posts: 418
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:45 pm

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:31 pm

behramjee wrote:
RainerBoeing777 wrote:
Can the Airbus A330-800NEO do KWI-JFK non-stops, or does it have to make a technical stop?


The A338 can do JFK/IAD-KWI nonstop easily year round with no payload issues however it cannot depart KWI with a full payload at any time of the year to JFK/IAD considering KU’s prime westbound departure hub wave bank is between 0800-0945 local time where the on ground temperature averages 43-45c between mid Apr-mid Oct + KU’s average pax weight with luggage included is 120KG.

Yeah that is going to decimate any twin. That might knock 10+ tons off the MTOW.
 
behramjee
Posts: 5118
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:30 pm

DylanHarvey wrote:
behramjee wrote:
RainerBoeing777 wrote:
Can the Airbus A330-800NEO do KWI-JFK non-stops, or does it have to make a technical stop?


The A338 can do JFK/IAD-KWI nonstop easily year round with no payload issues however it cannot depart KWI with a full payload at any time of the year to JFK/IAD considering KU’s prime westbound departure hub wave bank is between 0800-0945 local time where the on ground temperature averages 43-45c between mid Apr-mid Oct + KU’s average pax weight with luggage included is 120KG.

Yeah that is going to decimate any twin. That might knock 10+ tons off the MTOW.


FYI even KUs B77Ws in summer season cannot fly KWI-JFK with a full payload !
 
ScottB
Posts: 7117
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Sun Nov 01, 2020 12:04 am

Dominion301 wrote:
The 338 should have a future too as a freighter.


Unless the sales, by some miracle, rise into the hundreds, it's unlikely the A338 will see any P2F conversions. Without a decent-sized worldwide fleet of aircraft available for conversion, it just won't make sense to invest the resources needed for the STC.
 
DylanHarvey
Posts: 418
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:45 pm

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Sun Nov 01, 2020 9:18 am

behramjee wrote:
DylanHarvey wrote:
behramjee wrote:

The A338 can do JFK/IAD-KWI nonstop easily year round with no payload issues however it cannot depart KWI with a full payload at any time of the year to JFK/IAD considering KU’s prime westbound departure hub wave bank is between 0800-0945 local time where the on ground temperature averages 43-45c between mid Apr-mid Oct + KU’s average pax weight with luggage included is 120KG.

Yeah that is going to decimate any twin. That might knock 10+ tons off the MTOW.


FYI even KUs B77Ws in summer season cannot fly KWI-JFK with a full payload !

Oh yeah that doesn’t surprise me. Hot weather and or altitude eats away at twins payload bad. 35+ is gonna mess up a lot of stuff.
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2875
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Sun Nov 01, 2020 11:36 pm

ScottB wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
The 338 should have a future too as a freighter.


Unless the sales, by some miracle, rise into the hundreds, it's unlikely the A338 will see any P2F conversions. Without a decent-sized worldwide fleet of aircraft available for conversion, it just won't make sense to invest the resources needed for the STC.


I’m referring more to a 338F pure freighter version than any distant future conversions. The 763F of course has dominated thus far vs the 332F, but they serve different missions. The 338 can also be the platform for future military platforms and VIP transports.
 
Antarius
Posts: 2732
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Sun Nov 01, 2020 11:50 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
ScottB wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
The 338 should have a future too as a freighter.


Unless the sales, by some miracle, rise into the hundreds, it's unlikely the A338 will see any P2F conversions. Without a decent-sized worldwide fleet of aircraft available for conversion, it just won't make sense to invest the resources needed for the STC.


I’m referring more to a 338F pure freighter version than any distant future conversions. The 763F of course has dominated thus far vs the 332F, but they serve different missions. The 338 can also be the platform for future military platforms and VIP transports.


See above. The a330F has a wingspan issue. If you're using class E gates, the a330F is suboptimal.

Give the 767F is still being ordered and delivered and the 777F is as well, why do you think an a338F will fare better than the a330F?

Airbus would be better off with an a350F than trying to whack a square peg into a round hole with the a330 in the freighter market.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2875
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:21 am

Antarius wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
ScottB wrote:

Unless the sales, by some miracle, rise into the hundreds, it's unlikely the A338 will see any P2F conversions. Without a decent-sized worldwide fleet of aircraft available for conversion, it just won't make sense to invest the resources needed for the STC.


I’m referring more to a 338F pure freighter version than any distant future conversions. The 763F of course has dominated thus far vs the 332F, but they serve different missions. The 338 can also be the platform for future military platforms and VIP transports.


See above. The a330F has a wingspan issue. If you're using class E gates, the a330F is suboptimal.

Give the 767F is still being ordered and delivered and the 777F is as well, why do you think an a338F will fare better than the a330F?

Airbus would be better off with an a350F than trying to whack a square peg into a round hole with the a330 in the freighter market.


Never said it would. Yes you’d need to shorten the wings to fit into a code D gate, which is optimal at a big sortation hub. By then you’re essentially back at a modern A300. Airbus would probably need to secure at least 50 orders before proceeding with a 338F. Who knows what the future holds though with a) the current environment and b) Airbus targeting 2035 for the rollout of a hydrogen powered aircraft.
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 15280
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: Kuwait Airways takes delivery of world's first A330-800

Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:31 am

Antarius wrote:
Give the 767F is still being ordered and delivered and the 777F is as well, why do you think an a338F will fare better than the a330F?


Price, availability, package volume.

Many issues like wing span being referred to are directly aimed at UPs/FedEx.

I think in 10 years SF express could be running 100 freighters around Asia, and the A330 would be fine for them. New builds could be completed in China.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos